Dead Battery? Intermittent DRAW? OVERNIGHT LOGGING!! (17 Lincoln MKC)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Oh just another "loaded" Lincoln with an INTERMITTENT PARASITIC DRAW...
This time I'm armed with a REALLY COOL tool that a viewer sent me:
The Wi-Fi PARASITIC LOGGER (prototype)!
GADGET #168: WIFI PARASITIC LOGGER:
• GADGETS#168 - WiFi PAR...
MARTIN LOREN HSCOPE APP:
www.martinlore...
This gadget is truly BADASS: you can monitor and RECORD the parasitic drain over hours or DAYS right on your smartphone, away from the vehicle! HOW COOL IS THAT?
I use the Wi-Fi PARASITIC LOGGER to monitor the draw over 8 hours to discover a very interesting pattern about a certain module that is having a hard time sleeping :)
Can we fix this Lincoln NO PARTS REQUIRED?
IVAN'S PARASITIC DRAW LOG:
drive.google.c...
ASTRO DVOM:
www.amazon.com...
ASTRO AMP CLAMP:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan
very generous review Ivan
my thanks also to Jim, a longtime subscriber of theGADGETSplaylist for building this GADGETS#168 and sending it to you
for the time being, this is a DIY project with all build info provided free of charge but it is being considered as a future collaboration with Martin Loren in Shanghai and developer of the HScope app as a marketed product
thank you so much, Ivan!
the GADGETS playlist SEND ME A LINK OR ANYTHING THAT I CAN REACH U.......WELL DONE FOR THE EFFORT....
Very good! Let me repeat here what I commented to Ivan: I can imagine it also monitoring a CAN bus, to check if there's module activity, along with the current draw. Maybe someday it can connect to a scanner - I'm going too fast, I know :-)
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT YES SIR.THINK U R TOO FAST FOR THIS....BUT STIL WANT THIS AS A DAILY ......
@@tcifusion4497 Yep, you are right 🙂 Always thinking ahead 🙂
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT ALWAS SIR...ALWAYS....THANK U...
Such a simple tool and App. Now that it's out there it nearly is a case of why hasn't it been around for years! there's Apps for a lot of useless stuff out there, yet this one is most certainly useful.
Thank goodness for publicly available TSB's.
Never would have guessed that module operated on the (now) outdated 3G network technology.
Awesome diag and fix! 👍
I think we will be seeing this new gadget a great deal in the future. It is brilliant.
Martin Loren is great. I have been using Hscope for the last year. When I saw how lackluster the Windows software was for my Hantek scope, and Hscope is a great little piece of software.
When I've needed to check intermittent issues in the past, I've used a camcorder pointed at either an oscilloscope and/or a meter as required. Sometimes just at the screen if it's a TV problem. Set the camcorder to its longest recording time and let it record, then play back at fast speed to see if/when the fault shows.
Lol, do they still make those…?
@@iamher6422 You can pick them up for next to nothing on eBay. A phone camera will do the job too.
What's a camcorder?
Interesting strategy! Sounds a bit time consuming though 😅
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics It was, but this was mostly a few years ago, when options were more limited. I mainly worked on audio & video gear for a manufacturer (JVC). I only do the odd restoration now.
Great diagnosis and what a gadget, is a game changer for sure!
The original TCU were 2G modules back when they came out in 2013 that they paid to upgrade to 3G.
This was a common issue where it would drain the battery because the unit would get locked up.
Very convenient. Having used scopes a lot at work (not automotive, but similar systems troubleshooting) years ago (80s/90s) we would frequently use strip chart recorders for just that kind of intermittent problem troubleshooting. This is much more convenient and the data easier analyze. Brilliant, as you say.
Harump ! ! Those features are not parasitic draws ! Our design engineers are told to always refer to such hard to fix snags as "Out of warranty profit centers". lol
Koodos to that fella setting You up with that cool tool. Well deserved for sure. As always,👍👍
21k miles thats a lot for a Ford, Love those Timing Chains at 90k miles . Awesome quality and engineering
One of my happiest auto days was the day I sold my F150 with that horrible Triton 5.4L engine. Good riddance. Entire engine rebuild at 130k miles because they used a cheap oil pump.
I love it: "I can't keep the customer's car for a month to try to recreate this issue; even though the dealership kept the car for 2 months." I really don't think this is any different than in the early 2000s when some phone systems transitioned from analog to digital. That is why I want none of this in my car because when it becomes outdated what are you going to do? I consider that Parasitic Logger just another tool to compliment that ol' Russian Brain in your head. Let's face it, this stuff is great, but you still must know how to use it. As far as charging the customer, I think you are ALWAYS fair; and if I were this customer, I would insist on paying you for your time, whatever you spent on it. Great video!
That brake resivior looks like it's staring at me lol. Looks like a creature out of a kids book
That tool is amazing
ALWAYS GIVE CREDIT TO THOSE WHO DESERVED IT ......REALY INTERESTED IN THIS COOL THING......
This reminded me. I had a Ford Escape that had a battery draw. It turned out to be the fuse panel. And guess what? The fuse panel was integrated into the wiring harness. And wholy mother of God. The wiring harness required removal of the front bumper, abs module, and the entire dash. The dash was biggest bs move on Fords behalf. Because the the dash only had to come out because the APP plug runs from the passenger side, behind the HVAC box to the APP. Crazy!
UGH Ford brilliant engineering xD
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Probably cheaper to make it that way.
@Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics LOL. as if Ford is the only manufacturer that has weird oversights... they're all junk, when they're broke.
I work in a chemical plant and many years ago the plant would trip offline at 11:57 pm. It would do it at a cycle of 1 week then 3 weeks. No one could find what was doing it and we would dread that time if it was your shift.
A data logger eventually found the culprit. There were 2 closed loop cooling water pumps on a big transformer and somehow the pumps had been changed from manual mode to auto mode and the design philosophy had them change lead-lag duty on a 1 week/3week cycle at midnight. It was enough for a Lo Lo water flow blip to take the plant out.
The old 11:57 trip 20 years later. Damn.
Very cool device! I am still wondering what is actually going on with the telematics 3G unit. I have a theory - there are still some cell carriers that have 3G available in some areas even though its supposed to be not available anymore. I have been able to put my phone into 3G ONLY mode via secret service menu and depending where I am, I can still make phone calls. I have T-Mobile. Perhaps where the customer lives there is a cell site that has 3G still active and its several miles away putting the car in the "fringe zone." Cellular protocol allows radios to increase power output (TX) when further away (determined by weaker RX signal) automatically, and would most likely draw way more than 60ma in high power mode. Perhaps there are multiple re-tries to connect. There is no way to prove this unless the data logger was hooked up at the customers home, with the car parked in the exact spot it normally is, and the hood is down. Not that it matters anymore anyway, but I would sleep better at night knowing for sure! LOL. Thanks - great video.
Fantastic video! This device will certainly improve your ability to measure parasitic draws. Always great when it's a less parts required fix.
I hope FORD sit up and watch your video Ivan you have done us all a great service in the motor trade. Ray uk...
Ivan, it was great that you were paying attention and found that app and device to try. This is the type of thing I’d expect you to develop in the future and increase your net worth, I’d be very happy for you. You along with Eric O have that critical thinking that makes you as good as you both are. It’s something you’re just born with.
Great gadget, combined with that app and the old smartphone. But unlike what you said, you can perfectly graph this out on a Picoscope as well, because you don't need a drifting amp clamp to measure current with a scope. You need a shunt resistor and you measure the voltage across that. That voltage translates into amps through the shunt resistor. If you don't have a shunt resistor, then you wire a multimeter for measuring parasitic current. At the points where your multimeter is connected to the car, you also connect the scope, in order to measure the voltage dropped over the multimeter. So, basically, you'll be using the internal shunt resistor of the multimeter's amp scale with the scope, for measuring current.
In fact, you could even graph 4 different suspected parasitic loads, by connecting the ground of the scope to the common feed of a bunch of fuses and connecting the scope's 4 channels at the load sides of the fuses, using the fuses as shunt resistors.
That said, I do see the value of that gadget. Easy to setup a measurement, no expensive equipment needed: only the gadget, the app, and an old smartphone.
In my day we had portable chart recorders that could graph voltage and current, some were designed to clamp and hang on a high voltage line.
they were life savers for us,
That's a pretty cool tool. Hopefully it comes on the market soon.
Nice find Ivan!!! Good to see smart people creating solutions !!! I can imagine this device becoming an awesome troubleshooting tool for the automotive industry.
Electricians have a Dranitz meter. It logs voltage, amperage and wattage and prints a continuous paper ribbon log like a cash register receipt.
PHAD and Hscope 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽👏
Whoa! What a neat tool! Having the wifi to log all the draws while sitting in your armchair lol. That's rad! I like that! Now you knew that the telmatrics is bad as you've fixed them before! Awesome video, Ivan. Well done!
Ivan, thanks for showing us this tool. I think it takes diagnostics to the next level. Thanks for Sharing!
Very curious if you can turn off / disable 2017 Lincoln Way from the touch screen. It would be fun to see how the current draw changes if at all. Fun to see the new tool in action. Well done video.
Thats amazing kit- been dreaming of a device that can do this.
Nice tool. One item that should be added to the software is an amp-hour counter to see the total amount of current that is drawn from the battery.
You could maybe do that with the csv file when you download it. Great idea
I have done this with an amp clamp on a Pico. Set time scale to max and record over night. Its awesome to be able to do this
In this instance it was valuable because from prior experience you had an idea of the module at fault. Where this could be valuable is if you had like 20 of these connected all at once to your fuses (and you labeled each log). Otherwise in my opinion it has limited value, as it helps you confirm the issue that you already know is happening, but it doesn't do much to determine which module is causing the problem.
I show how to pinpoint the culprit module in the 2 other Lincoln vids that actually had big draws 🙂
The higher end multimeters will log. I'm not sure if they'll do DC amps, but I don't see why they wouldn't.
That tool is excellent 👍
30 years ago we used a Gould brush recorder for this type situation . Still available on eBay
This would be a FANTASTIC thing to slap on an Android tablet. What an ingenious tool.
Hscope is awesome piece of software.I use it regularly when I need more channels.Work good with 8 ch hantek
Such a great tool, Imagine having 2 cars in the shop with issues like this, a 3rd car getting brakes done. After the brake job coming back and diagnosing the intermittent issue on both cars and being able to charge 3 hours each plus a brake job in the same 3 hour period, Ivan's going to be rich , Good for him !!!
And this is why mechanics get a bad rap. Do you charge hourly labor while charging a battery?…no. Why would you charge hourly labor while a piece of equipment is logging data and you are working on something else? If you left it overnight would you charge 12 hours of labor while you’re at home eating dinner, watching tv and sleeping?…ridiculous. A flat fee for the diagnosis…yes…hourly labor…no.
On the last time you had this issue with previous draw repair, a commenter and myself spoke on the reason it is good to have the telematics. The bulletin you pulled up was what we spoke on. If they have a replacement, and it functions, that brings value back to the car. All functions restore to normal. Any thought Ivan if that would be a good video to see if the replacement actually works?
I’ve gone through 5 Everlast batteries on my Transit 250 van. Fortunately they were all in warranty period and replaced for free, but a lot of hassle. Really weird how the vehicle will leave things on when I shut it off. Enjoyed this one and many others thanks.
It's part of the push of PAY TO USE items in a car you OWN but arent allowed to use stuff you bought. aka BMW heated seats dont work until you pay. AUDI navigation doesnt work until you pay. As Steve Lehto noted you paid for all of these items what happens when those items stop working and as you see here what happens when the method to pay for those items stops working. Why is that on you the person who bought the car to repair? you bought a fully functional car, the dealer disabled parts of it and wants blood money to enable them.
Seems like maybe this thing is trying to reach out and touch someone every 6 min or so, and can’t. But if in a different area where it finds a connection, it may be getting hung up in a loop it can’t reconcile and drawing more current for a longer time. Would be interesting to see the same test with the car in your customer’s driveway.
That's pretty much what I said, but you said it in less words! LOL
You are dating yourself. Wasn't that AT&T's advertising slogan in the mid-to-late 70's? I think it was a jingle. "RRREEEAAACCCHHH out, RRREEEAAACCCHHH out and touch someone."
And it was a catchy tune!
@@frankvucolo6249 Remembering it after all these years? You betcha!
Can the telematics be turned off in the settings?
Nice gadget! I'm always looking for new toys. So far for over night parasitic draw data logger I bought 2 toys. One is a graphic multimeter named Rs-PRO 989 multimeter and the other one is a hantek oscilloscope tablet to1154d. The first one is very well built and very nice display for it's size and has bluetooth built-in. There is an app that connects to it and makes logs on your tablet/phone or you can log directly into the multimeter's memory and download afterwards via bluetooth. The only drawback is the battery. I tested it and went to about 14 hours of logging. You cannot charge it during operating, it has a strange plug-in charger. However 14 hours usually is enough. Also has a 15A peak reading. The hantek has a better battery life and can be plugged during logging so theoretically infinite logging, don't know about memory capacity, but you can save on microSD. The drawback of this one is the price of course and the fact it doesn't have an integrated protection fuse (really hantek?!). The fuse drawback is simply avoidable by inserting a 10A fuse on the leads. I made a 20cm negative lead with a fuse holder socket and it's good to go. I'm sure there are other devices that can log amperage (I wish I had a snap-on vantage pro...), but the price is pretty high on branded devices. You have to find an digital multimeter with graphing capabilities, but check if the manufacturer specifies the logging capability also for amp scale!
You could also buy a multimeter with logging capabilities, like a EEVBlog 121GW (or a cheaper one with SD slot and logging capabilities). Then just log to a sd card and review the csv file on a Computer.
I was thinking the same thing. There are other multimeters that have a USB PC interface and software to graph and log the data to a PC. Some of them are even less than $100.
You can get current clamps that are BT that talk to your phone.
I have a wired data logging meter I got for 35 bucks and it works with Microsoft and Linux. Uni-T, AstroAI, OWON....etc all make them.
@@kennethking2301 I picked one up for 35 bucks. It does everything this box does with a meter. But I ambet they make BT scopes and dongles.
using NEW technologies to troubleshoot. YES, LOVING it!! Merci
That’s definitely something that will come in handy on your diags.
I figured by now you would have disassembled gadget #168 and made a parts list to build your own. 😜🤣
You definitely strike me as the five year old kid that if left alone with a screwdriver would have disassembled the family heirloom grandfather clock in no time.
You dont have to disassemble it, he shows you how to make it on his channel.
My theory is that this module is doing just exactly like a cell phone can sometimes do. When it’s not in a service area the phone begins to do a search, which is like a full on, conversation. Max draw at this time.
Perhaps where this person parks this car when he’s home, for example, the module, being a transceiver, is shielded from the cell tower’s signal, causing the module to search for service. Apparently it has no time out feature so it will continue this search until it drains the battery.
Looks like you found yourself a valuable new toy!✌🏻
I can think of two reasons for the draw to happen.
1. The telematics module tries to communicate frequently when it don't have coverage and drains the battery.
2. On a vehicle project we experienced weird activations of the CAN bus and it was a ceramic de-coupling capacitor on one device that was the culprit. Ceramic capacitors have piezo-electric properties and can send out spurious spikes when there are temperature changes. Extremely tricky to figure out unless you know what you are looking for. A huge bugger if there's a module with the same number where some have been made with ceramic capacitors and some with plastic because the manufacturer bean counter has ordered the wrong ones because they were cheaper at the moment.
Ivan. Amazing new toy. Thanks for all your videos. You're an awesome Daignosic tech.
That's a great diagnostic tool. I've been trying to figure out what is going on with my jeep patriot. Everything is fine, then one morning the battery is dead. Charge it up, all good then day or two later battery is dead. I built a ESP32 Bluetooth battery monitor to check my battery without having to go to out to the jeep. Realized that the battery is 7 years old, so replaced it. All good for a couple days then dead. Parasitic draw appears to be around 20mA. Doesn't seem that high 😕
This is an amazing tool! Hopefully it will be on the market soon!
Just want to say thank you for sharing, I watch your videos sometimes 2-3 times. Great work, love it when you explain in detail what and how you test and why. Thank you.
That is a cool tool. Brilliant diagnostic.
Ditex i tester now autologs as well, only difference is, the i tester has other features including relative compression test without a scope
Can it log a milliamp battery drain?
Great video very impressed with that device. We used lots of data loggers when I worked in the power supply industry . Many HV protection devices had logger capability built in and without it intermittent faults where almost impossible to find. In my present job I was looking for some kind of logger for intermittent faults that can be time consuming and difficult to bill the customer and be fair to both yourself and them . The ones availible for mains voltage and also lower voltage to detect sensor inputs etc are very complex and expensive. Hopefully he will mass produce it somehow .
@3:34 I could swear someone put googly eyes on that brake reservoir. it took me a few to realize he wasn't messing with us.
At the very beginning of this video, I was thinking You Need a multi-channel Data Logger! I use them for efficiency testing of commercial boilers where I need to record water flow, fuel flow, and multiple temperatures every minute for a two-hour test period. They are handy as a diagnostic tool for situations just like this, where you need to "watch" multiple signals without actually standing there watching multiple meters and sensors overnight. This one you found here is awesome for doing just what you need to do for this diag. Let us know if/when this becomes available to the public.
Because I always take my Ford to the Chevy dealer. My electricity is out, hold on I'm calling the pool guy.
I tell ya, these lincolns are awesome for getting parasitic draws..
Had one myself not long ago.. not surprising
This could be integrated into a smaller module with a female and male battery posts in the same package with an over current interrupt in case someone forgot it was there and tried starting vehicle. The saved data could be pulled up on a similar bluetooth app
Wow that one cool device I'm kind of surprise that nobody is actually producing this type of device for the retail market
I wish the designer/builder much success.
Ive used my data logging multimeter for something similar. Its very handy.
Great job 👍. Another great tool to help diagnose and make it easier and faster.
Playtime, thanks, Ivan
Love the use of HSCOPE. Great video
That gadget is awesome. What a tool to add to your arsenal. Great fix and video my friend.
How cool was that, great job Ivan. The technology needed in today's world of automotive repair has become complex.
First observation: using a fuse as a current measurement shunt = brilliant! Old school ammeters ALWAYS required the current to flow thru a KNOWN but low resistance 'shunt' to then develop voltage drop. I = V÷R. Critical is there needs to be some resistance in the shunt that's MORE than general wiring but LESS than (very much less) than connected devices. VOILA!!! The fuse.
Caution::: a fuse isn't 'balls on,' calibrated, precise resistance. One amp value fuse is different resistance than a different amp fuse. One style fuse will be different than another style. Exact same fuses will also be different from manufacturing processes. If you need EXACT then just measuring milliVolt drop across a fuse isn't appropriate. The beauty, however, is the RELATIVE measurement IS VALUABLE. Given a full fuse box these milliVolt measurements WILL QUICKLY identify current .
Thank you Ivan! Always enjoy your videos. You never get complacent but always looking to improve your skills, and others as well!
Cool, you got one! I saw that link in the last video, what a cool and convenient device.
BTW I would have tagged on the dealer if it was a Ford dealer they brought it to, there should be no excuse for them not knowing about the silly modem unit. But this was a Chevy dealer... Still no diagnosis though, they simply threw parts at it.
Sure you are aware, but I'd suspect this module in ALL vehicles that had an "app" based remote start. They will all be wasting battery trying to find a 3g cell signal, like when you take a trip out into the woods with no cell service and your phone is dead at the end of the day even though you didn't use it.
You can buy multimeters with bluetooth connectivity that can send data (current voltage resistance) to an Android app to log and display the data.
On the newer subaru's I'll walk by the car and something will be running at night hours after using the car...I think its the canister system doing something. sounds like a vacuum pump. Newer subaru's all have issues with dead batteries if you don't drive the car often..What we do is install bigger batteries..seems to work welll. That Logger is neat for sure.
Nice diagnosis and nice find of that data logger.
Great video. It could be interesting to make the p log where the owner parks the veichle. What if this module begins to draw more if it communicates with something from fx owners house? 😮
exactly!
Fluke 289. Has data logger. Use it at my job frequently.
Fascinating case study and gadget review. Will definitely make your job easier. Thanks Ivan!
Thanks Ivan, I need one. 👍😎👍
Ivan, send this vid to Ford/Lincoln Corporate with an invoice for $100,000 and let them send it to ALL dealers! If the dealer can't fix it, what's the point? Amazing!
They should make Dummy Fuses with a lock-out tag on it saying why the fuse was pulled.
Or at the very least laminate a little message on paper and somehow fix it to the inside of the fuse box.
I watched another diag guys video and he unplugged a roof mounted DVD player due to parasitic draw as the owner didn’t care. But he reinstalled it and I was screaming to myself to leave a note in the fuse box for the possible next owner.
Very cool Ivan I've been using a Pokit Pro ($200ish) which is a DMM, scope & data recorder & it has a rechargeable battery so it doesn't pull a 100mA from the vehicle battery.
does it has a fuse in it in case of a current rise
@@alegibable yes Sir
I like this data logger. Only minus, it needs its own power supply so it can continue to log even after the car battery is dead.
There would be nothing to log if the car battery is dead HAHA
that device looks like a raspberry pi, with a shunt module, and that dude created a logger app for it :) I made the same thing , thats what makes me think its a raspberry pi. it is a time saver!! I think he used an oscilloscope module on his.
Now this is very interesting - a new device that is so useful to a skilled technician. It has to be satisfying to come across this and be able to use it in your profession. I guess that the TCU being disabled,-- now you can't use your phone app to remote start the car (for a subscription fee)-- is one of those things that can be called a First World problem. And having an otherwise useless old Android phone available for this app makes the experience a little bit nicer.
I am working on my 4th Ford batteyr drain since the first of the year.
That will be a valuable asset to you. Great job.
Great gadget, hope he sells you one. Who needs to operate your car via your mobile? Maybe to tell it to pick you up from the pub!
My guess is it's either the bootstrap generator or the Chrome muffler bearing ...🤪
Coming to a Snapon tester soon lol , that is an awesome gadget
Fords and other vehicles, have WiFi and cell capability to download software updates from their maker. Ford also, if you don’t drive often or long enough can go into deep sleep mode, to preserve the ability to start.
What is "deep sleep"? I doubt that it will ever draw less than the normal 10mA...
This business of overcomplicating vehicles with computers [while denying the operator any viable interface as part of the purchase] has reached a point of total absurdity for me. Late model car? I will put the radio fused right off the battery, and install a disconnect switch for all else. Painless makes a nice remote switch.
I find no benefit of having radio, lights or air conditioning being run by a computer.
My lincoln touch I believe is the name of the app for your phone to lock, unlock and remote start
your vehicle. That module is only on the reserve and black label trim levels on the mkc and mkx.
vehicle location can also be seen using that app, as far as i know. 15-18 are all the same for mkc,
19 is the exact same except for new front end.If that helps with future diags.
Ohh wow that is fantastic.. can't wait to get one.. I been looking for something like that..
Ivan in case you didn't know, Martin Loren is responsible for the software for h scope.
He is not the creator of the parasitic draw tester.
The gentleman who is the author of the gadgets playlist is who is making ng increase he gadgets.
Very clever, both.
Very interesting case,add a main switch like an emergency ambulance or fire truck,with all this modules so expensive for the owner...blessings
Very interesting episode, Ivan! Very useful tool. I can imagine it also monitoring a CAN bus, to check if there's module activity, along with the current draw. Maybe someday it can connect to a scanner - I'm going too fast, I know :-)