Which Elsa song is your favorite? ❄️ Mine is "Into the Unknown" Thanks again to Atlas VPN for sponsoring this video - get an 86% discount plus 3 months free by using our link: atlasv.pn/Dreamsounds
My favorite is “Show Yourself” because it’s honestly so heartfelt but also versatile. I really see it as the most LGBT anthem. Particularly feeling like it works as a trans anthem.
I totally agree with that - this movie came out when I was first starting to put a name to my gender dysphoria and the lyrics really resonated with me. "I'm dying to meet you/Show yourself/It's your turn/Are you the one I've been looking for/All of my life?"
I could write like a whole thesis on Let It Go, why it connects so well for small girls, the good it did for young singers, and the changes it signalled in Hollywood musicals ❄️I mean, all her songs are totally showstoppers, but for me it was always the original :)
It’a interesting how she initially was a villain, the classic queercoded one, but then they wrote let it go and decided to change it. It was like they had gained synpathy and understanding for the archetype they have portrayed for so many years.
Wait. Why being villain it's queer? The reason she wasn't made a villain is her song. In addition, the Snow Queen in the original fairy tale is not exactly a villain, rather an antagonist.
@@temin2776 long story short, when people were bad there were laws against lgbtq+ people being portrayed in media so people made their villans queer-coded so that they weren't arrested or something
Wait, wait. Why are you sure that this is exactly what the screenwriters had in mind when they wrote about villains? Do you think mannerism, narcissism and selfishness are "queer"? These are rather stereotypes about people who think too much about themselves. You don't call Onegin "queer". "Like a London dandy dressed." There are stereotypes about dandy too. These are generally stereotypes about empty people, coxcombs who think only about themselves and their appearance. I can tell you such characters from fairy tales that I have read. And vanity, whims, arrogance, narcissism are the traits of many villains, but this is natural. Mannerism is more like stereotypes about dandies.
And I really don't really understand what makes Elsa "queer". She is a girl who has been kept locked up for a long time and there really are reasons for this, if you believe the additional materials, originally there was a prediction about the trouble that would befall the kingdom and it was connected with Elsa's magic. The Snow Queen on which Elsa was based is not exactly a villain, but rather an antagonist. A very beautiful ice maiden from Scandinavian fairy tales. I was a little surprised when I found out that everyone interprets many of Elsa's songs differently for themselves. For me, the song "Let it go" tells about the state when you are in despair that everyone has left you and say: "Great! I don't need you!". And you think you've broken free and are free from the rules. This is a good association for the troubles that we experience in life. And I think I understand why many people draw so many parallels with themselves. We all want to be loved and to be free to express ourselves. But what distinguishes Elsa from other characters who are also experiencing similar difficulties?
I think they should've ditched the whole "we're not your Grandma's fairy tale romance" plot, but instead combined Elsa's escape and her personal journey from the sequel into one cohesive heroine's journey that could've been a meditation on being true to one's nature and then coming back on her own terms, not being dragged back.
For me "Let it Go" and "Show Yourself" have been my personal anthems. The first to remind myself that it doesn't matter what others think, I am trans and I will continue to be me. The second is that it's okay to be myself, that it's okay to be me. Frick, I'm starting to cry just thinking about it
Don't be ashamed to cry, those are some fricking good songs 😌 I don't know where you are in that whole journey, but I hope you get the love and support you deserve!!
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 the first thing that comes to mind is one of the many wild backstories he gets features his mother making him wear dresses because she wanted a daughter, which echoes the sentiment of many trans people whose parents aren't accepting of their identity in part out of a sense of losing the child they thought they had. There's other stuff but it escapes me now, I'll look it up
For me I always liked Elsa the most when I was in 3rd grade like all the others. Though looking back on it, it probably must've been my own identity struggles that I've just kept internalized. For a bit I tried hating Elsa because I didn't want to be seen as, "Too girly" but I still liked her because there was a level of comfort. Overtime I just said, "Fuck it" like her and became open with myself as a trans man, and get comfortable again with anything considered "Too girly" with no care of people's thoughts or opinions on my own identity.
I’m gonna have to deal with the fact that the movie came out my first year of college but you were in third grade 😅 But that’s awesome for you! I like that Elsa is a very vague character who can be a representative for a lot of groups. I kinda hope they don’t flatly stick her in a group at this point.
Bro same, I "hated" those girly girls and thought it was too girly, but when I saw Elsa for the first time, she was really pretty and my 5th grade ass saw frozen 1 atleast thrice a month just to see her in the movie. Then I realised, that being girly girl isn't wrong and Elsa is just pretty cuz she is, it isn't the matter abt girlish or boyish. And she's still my fav chara cuz of this, I found out I am bi. And no matter how much I hated frozen 2's plot (the plot felt strechy in terms of her ice power and true calling cuz then spirits were introduced and etc stuff, I wish they focus another movie on perspective of Elsa and everything that goes in her mind or full perspective from Anna, abt how hard it is to rule a kingdom and to maintain herself.) I still liked it cuz it resonated with me
@@Cupcake_Royale Lesbian can mean sexually attracted, Romantically attracted, Or both in this case they are romantically lesbian because they are asexual. Got it
@@Cupcake_Royale that's not true. someone can be romantically attracted to a girl as a girl and also not be sexually attracted to any gender. and vice versa, someone can be sexually attracted to a girl as a girl and also not be romantically attracted to any gender.
@@Cupcake_Royale Yes you can. I’m a Heteromantic ace, meaning I have romantic attraction for boys but not sexual attraction. People can have romantic attraction to other people but not always sexual, we just don’t feel that kind of attraction.
Until Disney gives us any confirmation, which may be never, I'm going to continue to see Elsa as ace. She could still be lesbian or aro, but considering that literally the only canon representation of my sexual preference in media I've seen is Peridot from Steven Universe (a fantastic example but still the only one), I'm headcanoning that Elsa is also ace
He's a very interesting character. Such a lucky loser. At first, he does not quite understand who he is and therefore he has difficulties with relationships. Watch the series, I highly recommend it. In addition, do not forget about one of the greatest characters - Monkey D Luffy.
I get those vibes as well. But I am also AroAce and therefor probably a little bias, but Elsa being ace adds a lot of weight and angst to Anna's accusation that Elsa knows nothing about love and "all you know is how to push people out" There's also no real indication that she cares about that kind of thing? and I'm gonna cling to representation of Elsa being welcome to spend time with Anna and her SO and not be treated like a 3rd wheel cuz that's such a ever-present source of social awkwardness as an adult aroace Also "you are the one you've been waiting for" is just such a powerful line of self-acceptance for someone who might feel wrong or lacking for not following the standard "find a partner, get married, yadda yadda yadda" sort of life
I sort of have hope that Disney will have lgbt representation sometime in the near future, especially when they’re getting more brave like showing the Owl House, and also not showing movies like Shang Chi, Eternals, and Spider-Man in China, and still making a profit off these movies, goes to show that they care less about catering to countries with homophobic governments
Yeah, I have ADHD (possibly autism, but not official), and I had to hide it all through school, and it was hard on me. To me, Elsa running to the mountain reminded me of hiding in my closet with a GameBoy and a bunch of pillows to try and avoid a meltdown before I knew what a meltdown was.
At this point I hope she stays just queercoded. I think she's been too important to people of multiple orientations at this point, confirming her as any one thing would make her specific representation for one orientation, rather than an icon for all of us.
I agree. I think there are many ways Disney could do it - like I said in the video, Elsa being explicitly LGBTQIA+ would be a win because of how she is currently one of Disney's most popular characters. However, working more explicit representation into the Disney catalogue while keeping Elsa's story open could also be a way to have her be the last of the "queercoded" characters and also keep her story relevant to the whole community.
i';ve seen people say cis aro-aces, cis romantic-asexuals, cis asexual-romantics are not queer. there is a whole fb page dedicated to it, and fb dosen't think it's hate speech
@@kaiyodei cishet aros/aces do not experience homophobia, that is true, but the experience of being aro, ace, or both, is outside the default societal expectation of heterosexuality, and therefore inherently queer. Could care less what facebook does or does not determine "hate speech", that's irrelevant. Aros and aces are queer and belong in the LGBT community.
@@kaiyodei once someone grows up with a different perspective on romance/sex/relationships, their understanding of it will always be different and often more complicated than that of a cis-hetero-allosexual. the prevalence of straight relationships in media can be confusing and even suffocating, and trying to understand why that is and why a lot of people don’t mind at all already sets someone at a more complicated view on the subject. having such a different perspective on something that is “innate” and assumed is what makes us queer. there is a proposed “this is the way things are for everyone” and queer people challenge that.
i know for a fact that many of the wdas staff would be completely okay with it. it’s the higher ups that they would have to fight tooth and nail with. if getting Luisa to be muscular was a battle, imagine actually doing something like this.
The movie wouldn't be able to release in some major markets then. As much as I hate to say this, their first gay movie will probably be some low budget Disney+ movie.
I remember when I first saw frozen, I was around 12 and it was when I was starting to realize how I was diffrent from others, and i remember when i figured out i wasnt cishet, I heard Let it go In a different light and when I felt sad or dysphoric I'd sing that almost to tell myself that some day I'll let It go and be able to be myself, and honestly to this day it's still a huge comfort to me.
I found the key difference between Brave and Frozens princess narrative was in Brave Merida didn't have a love interest, but the plot was still centered on her betrothal. In Frozen Elsa is not related to any form of romantic relashionship plotline.
I'm so happy you've made a video about Elsa being queer 😭❤️ she's such an icon!! I loved Frozen 2 so much, Into the Unknown is so good🥺💖 her journey of self discovery is so familiar to me.
in my opinion, it makes the most sense to have a confirmation of aro ace. it’s simple, conservatives won’t get it, she literally makes life by herself, and i’m sure disney is never going to give her a girlfriend. i’m super jaded so this influences it but it would be a nice step and i don’t think it was ever planned to give her a romantic interest, tho i could be wrong.
I agree after the ending of frozen 2 it felt like she doesn't need a king or queen by her side it be great to have some Aro and ace representation too 👍✨
Plus Aro Ace Elsa steps away from the only aro Ace stereotype we have, that of someone cold and computer like. Elsa is a very warm and emotional person more than capable of haveing lots of love for her friends and family. She just has no need for romantic love.
Fellow ACE/Aro here and I definitely got those vibes from Elsa. I personally don’t need “confirmation” of it - it makes me happy to see others interpreting her in a similar way, and I really like the ambiguity of it all.
I was 12 when Frozen came out and was staying with my grandma, who decided to take me to see it. I had come to terms with being a lesbian at this point; I was petrified of what everyone around me would think, though. I felt so trapped. Elsa’s story (and let it go in particular) made me feel so seen as a kid- I was 12 fighting back tears because I saw myself on screen for one fleeting moment. Experiences like those are what pushed me to go into animation, and now I’m a senior in college with a desire to advocate for meaningful representation on and off screen. This video is beautiful, just like all of your others. :) this phenomenon was so interesting to see and experience online; I think so many of us queer kids flocked to these platforms like tumble where these conversations were normalized, and in a weird way I think it was life saving; we have the opportunity queer people may not have had before us, and that’s a readily available community anywhere you go. :) Again, phenomenal video. Your singing never fails to give me chills. 💖
One of the Disney kingdom-building mobile games had an event with Honeymaren and Elsa that felt like the writers had a bet going on about how much gay subtext they could put into the duo without their bosses catching on. Like, they literally Elsa Honeymaren's "Gal Pal." It's hilarious. Anyway, this was a great video! You approach the situation from a lot of angles, which I always appropriate. I'm curious what will happen with Elsa in the future, as she's such a huge icon of pop culture relative to the other modern queer-coded Disney leads. I imagine there are some Disney execs running risk-benefit analyses and the risk of Elsa getting banned in certain countries or being boycotted by queerphobic parents is probably MASSIVE relative to, say, the risk of Raya being banned were Kelly Marie Tran's interpretation of her as a lesbian to become canonized. That said, that also makes it much harder for me to be cynical about the idea of Elsa as being queer, as I think any confirmation of Elsa's queerness would end up being both affirming for queer people and a sort of triumph of artists being able to tell their stories at Disney regardless of the bottom line...
Brendon Urie's pansexual, not bi i know it's just a small thing, but it just kinda gets on my nerves as a pansexual person when people call pansexual celebrities bi, because we get so little representation and so few public figures to look up to that identify the same way we do. it's nice to have that little bit of a connection, especially with artists you've really liked for a long time, y'know?
@@Sad-rc9fw the most commonly agreed upon definition for pan (and the one i identify most with) is that pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender, whereas bisexual usually means you’re attracted to two or more genders. I will say though, that a lot of people, bi or pan, have their own personal definitions as to what their sexuality means to them and while sometimes the two can seem really similar, the distinction between them can be really important to some people and deserves to be validated, not debated. :)
@@Sad-rc9fw There's an aspect of the bisexual label that has to do with the history of the lgbt. Some people might fit the mold of pansexuality but it's just not how they identify due to their history with rep. Sort of in the same way some trans folks, particularly older trans people, cling to "transexual" as their label instead of "transgender".
I see Elsa more as an asexual. She was suppressed by her parents as a child, then she suffered their loss when she turned 18. So of course her childhood wasn't the best one. Also, Elsa said that "you can't just marry the person you just met", meaning that she's at least demisexual.
I noticed that demisexuals are people who only experience attraction after they have an emotional connection between each other, unlike other orientations
Not really. I think when Elsa told Anna she can't marry a person she just met she was telling her to take a closer look as Hans, a character who turned out to be untrustworthy and only wanted to exploit Anna. That line is actually very similar to Kristoff telling Anna the same thing when he figures out Hans is a complete stranger to her. Unlike Elsa, who has poor communication skills, Kristoff is able to bring his point across to Anna better. Elsa came across as being against Anna marrying quickly in general rather than Hans giving off red flags to her.
Personnaly, I headcanon Elsa as demi-sexual lesbian for some months 🤷🏽♀️ I understand people who want her to be aroace or aroace lesbian, but I could easily imagine Elsa falling in love (with Honeymaren of course). She is the first reason of why I think Elsa is lesbian. So, we don't have to forget it's Disney, that will never be a question of sexual orientation, yes for romantic orientation or only attraction, but no sexual way. I think Elsa can feel sexual attraction but "not now". It matches very well with her character cause everytime de have to wait a moment for her to do what she have to. With Elsa it's never now, there is always a period before. That's why I headcanon her as demi-sexual :D
I used to get a lot of push back for suggesting that Elsa was asexual or aromantic. I'm glad we've grown so we can allow a character to represent more than one thing.
I first heard "Let it Go" when I was at the lowest point of my eating disorder and it really clicked with me. I would say it did play a part in me getting help. Also I do wish media would stop portrayed asexual as something you need to be cured from or that somethings "wrong" with you. So I see why Elsa is important even if everyone doesn't see her that way. I haven't seen Frozen 2 yet but at least as far as I know, no one is trying to force Elsa to date...
Honestly, Elsa is the main reason I discovered my sexuality. Especially her song "Let it go", which i sang non-stop for days. I was still a teenager when Frozen came out, and I've moved on from that obsession now, but Elsa will always have a special place in my heart and in my history.
I revisited the music of Frozen 2 recently and I’m surprised you didn’t break down the lyrics of “Into the Unknown” a bit more, because from my understanding, they basically confirm Elsa views the mysterious voice as a romantic figure. She doesn’t know that it’s her “true self” calling for her or whatever, and she talks to it as of it’s someone trying to seduce her. “And if I heard you, which I don't / I'm spoken for, I fear”. “Everyone I've ever loved is here within these walls. / I'm sorry, secret siren, but I'm blocking out your calls.” The word “siren” is often associated with mysterious seductresses. The movie reminds me of those old lesbian pulp fiction novels in which a character could be as openly lesbian as they wanted, as long as they were either heterosexual or suffered some tragedy by the end of the book. Elsa could be explicitly gay in her first major song, as long as she’s “actually just discovering her true self” by the end of her second song. It felt like the creative team desperately wanted to make her openly gay, and were able to fight for a degree of that openness to make it to the final movie, but weren’t able to go the whole way due to Disney’s interference.
I find it interesting how, in the second movie, when elsa is going through the memories of the past, or something -- i dont remember -- she turns away from from herself singing "let it go" when it sounds, as if its a painful memory. I really dont know if it means anything, or if it even could. I just find it interesting :P
My head cannon is that Idunna was Honemerren's aunt. I think Elsa not having a romantic relationship takes pressure off of young people, and that's how she best serves as a role modle. I'd rather see the creators of the Frozen franchise quit now and go onto other projects rather milk a cash cow dry.
Yeah, and even Anna with her unusual relationships, it shows people that you don't need the perfect fairytale to be happy, as most movies prior ended with a romance, but in real life, it's much more complicated, so it was nice to see that you don't need a partner, and who you think you'll marry at one point in time, isn't who you'll actually end up with.
yeah. we need more of that for everyone, especally kids. the "you aren't anyone, or happy, or complete unless you have a special someone" is damaging. you can't have a happy ever after by yourself, and if you do it with wealth and fame, that is 'evil'. if your happily ever after is living with 5,000 rescued farm animals, you are a animal obcessed weirdo.
No arguments on the latter part but to clarify, Elsa is absolutely not related to Honeymaren in the least. They could have very easily alluded to that during the conversation about the scarf but instead of saying the pattern is of "our family" she said "one of our (Northuldras) oldest families." Not all native people in a single tribe are of the same clan or blood related, many are as related to each other as I likely am to you, let alone between tribes in the same ethnicity (Northuldra). Honeymaren and Ryder are Nattura. We don't yet know Idunas last name prior to marrying. I did some looking and it looks like the Northuldra are all connected as a people, there are many tribes separate from each other. While Iduna is Northuldra, she isn't from the same tribe as the one Yelena runs. She was found by the older woman and brought into the tribe as a young child well before meeting Arendellians. This is all in supplementary material that *could* have been used to forever kill the ship but explicitly did not do so. There is zero chance that Elsa and Honeymaren are cousins.
@@FarronMoon I've since read a passage in the book Dangerous Secrets in which we learn that the tribe Idunna was born into had been wiped out for some reason and Yelena's tribe adopted her. I'm still leaving my original comment up, however.
@@ethenallen1388 I dearly hope I did not come off as aggressive here, I do appreciate all the different readings of Elsa whether she is Ace, Aro, Bi, Lesbian or just a straight girl who decides to stay single. I am partial towards lesbian Elsa because reasons but all headcanons are valid. .. Except Jelsa, I abhor that ship.
I really appreciate that this didn’t focus only on the lesbian reading, it’s a shame that because it’s the loudest it often drowns the aroace interpretation (sometimes maliciously by ace exclusionary people, sometimes just out of ignorance on the levels of those people who say this pushes an evil agenda). It’s always really nice (though sadly it’s always a surprise) to see your identities being heard and recognized 💜 I always thought aroace lesbian Elsa would be a good way to incorporate it all in a way that wouldn’t erase either orientation interpretation too much, so +1 to that 😁
It's really a shame how much aro ace interpretation/representation gets pushed aside in favor of shipping (not people shipping for fun, the people pushing ships to be cannon). It happened with BBC Sherlock. It's happening with Alastor in Hazbin Hotel. Then you have people who keep saying "you can be aro ace and still have a relationship" while technically it is true, it still comes across as completely tone deaf on how it erases the aro ace people who really don't want a romantic relationship at all. Just because people want to shoe horn romance into literally everything.
The fact is that there is no confirmation about Alastor that he is aromantic, although I think he is one of those who is not interested in such things at all. However, the canon confirms that women flirt with him and that he is asexual. The words that he is aromantic were said by the animator on the stream, but she is a famous prankster, so it's hard to say whether this is really a fact. Remember when Angel Dust's real name was Martin, and now it's Anthony.
Genuine question: How the fuck can you be a aroace lesbian? Being both aromantic and asexual means you're not romanticaly or sexualy atracted to anyone, so how can someone also be a lesbian, when that means they're a woman that's romaticaly and/or sexualy attracted to other women. HOW CAN THESE TWO THINGS GO TOGETHER?? I'm aroace and I'm very confused.
@ZeroInfinity Since you're aroace it may make things easier to explain, because you're at least a bit aware that there can be a split in the types of attraction you may experience hence aro and ace both, it's just a matter that it's not limited to those two. Lesbian describes a fem-alligned to fem-alligned attraction, but it's not limited to romantic and sexual, commonly it wouldn't be used to describe a platonic attraction, but it is often used to describe sensual (relating to the senses, for exmple liking the sensation of that person cuddling you or liking someone's smell), alterous (weird grey area between romantic and platonic), aesthetic (a feeling of liking a person kinda sorta like you'd find a painting or a song pleasing) or other types of tertiary attraction, or any combination of attraction types. It's also the case with people who may want to be in relationships despite not feeling the attraction, that they could use the term lesbian to refer to their preferences when it comes to who they'd form these relationships with, instead of their attraction per se, it's just simpler to use that terminology and clarify if needed.
@@zeroinfinity3325 fellow Ace here (but not aro), the simple answer is that relationships are complicated, and getting involved in a relationship doesn't have to require sexual or romantic attraction for someone to get something out of the relationship (for example someone can enjoy the companionship and be willing to perform romantic/sexual gestures for their partner in exchange). Also, I'm sure you are aware of the sex positive, sex neutral, sex repulsed spectrum for aces. An aro ace femme/female person on the sex positive/neutral side could have a preference for other femme/female individuals, even if that preference doesn't manifest as actual sexual attraction. Regardless, while it can exist, aro ace people who really don't want anything to do with sex and relationships shouldn't be pushed aside in the process.
I hate that people assume women are lesbians because they don’t wanna date a man or anyone for that matter, did the writers say Shes a lesbian? Or did the audience just assume? What if she’s aromantic or asexual or whatever else, and don’t think I’m being homophobic, because I’m not, I’m being logical, seriously.
I think it's due to the lack of LGBT people in media so people take what few there are but yeah, aces have pretty much no representation outside of Bojack Horseman so it's even worse for them. I think it's just because there's a lot more gay people than ace people so they try to claim these characters.
I understand where you come from, but I have a different opinion. I'm tired of seeing possibly LGBTQIA2S+ characters in movies, I want them to be explicitly LGBTQIA2S+. I feel that would be a relief to me
@Alex it's a shame isn't it? Confirm and exclude, or be ambiguous and not commit. It's unfair for LGBT folk; getting inconsistent representation like that.
frozen will forever be a special story to me. show yourself helped me come to terms with my sexuality and made me feel seen in a way I can’t even describe. I remember listening to show yourself in the car and sobbing while the sun was setting with pink, blue, and purple hues shining all around. it felt like a sign and the lyrics made me want to share who i was with others and that it’s okay to be me. both anna and elsa hold pieces of my heart
I remember watching frozen for the first time, i was 11 and immediately saw myself in else. First with my physical disabilities, then with my autism. And i did not know yet really what it meant to be asexual, but i saw myself in her not having a romantic interest. She didnt have a prince she married at the end, and as someone raised as a girl i felt like my ending was supposed to be marrying a man. But she didnt, she had love though, her sister was her true love at the end. Making me realize that love doesnt need to be romantic or sexual. Love is so much more. Its a message that so many kids need for so many aspects. People who are outcasts in many ways see themselves in her and for kids that can change their world view and make them feel less alone
I didn't get a notification but as soon as I saw that a new video was uploaded... no ma'm I'm gonna learn after this. And way better, it's about Elsa, through the character where I fully realized that I'm gay as a bean. Thank you Dreamsounds as always for you're dedicated and heartfelt videos!
Lovely video as always! I think Disney characters have this beautiful sense of applicability to them - conceivably, they can be anything. Elsa is definitely one of those characters. While I do feel we need to be wary of the fact that it can slip into Disney getting credit for doing essentially the bare minimum in terms of representation, I cannot deny the fact that a lot of people in the lgbt+ community can see themselves in her. And I love to see it! I have a dear friend who identifies as aroace, so I'm tempted to think of Elsa as such. In terms of music I'm still fond of Let It Go!
1)Elsa Songs. A) "Let it go" was a beautiful song about Elsa embracing her powers and finally using them and not feeling restrained anymore. B) "Into the unknown" is about Elsa's struggle to answer the call to where she belongs. To her mother. To her destiny to save Erendale and the Enchanted forest. C) "Show yourself /Grow yourself" is the ending of Elsa's finding herself character ark. It means, being comfortable and happy with the knowledge of her destiny, her power, where she comes from and that she is the fifth force. These are character growth songs . OBVIOUSLY. NOT coming out songs. Elsa is not lgbt of any form.
I adore the classy bakground music, i's always nice to watch your video essays early in the morning, simple with great information and thought. keep it up, I love this :)
To me, Elsa is aro ace. And to others she can be whatever they want. I love how her sexuality can be whatever you want her to be. (No, it's not thanks to Disney. Don't praise Disney for it, it was accidental. Disney would never do that)
I don't think it's QUITE fair to say "Now that we know the movie was hastily-put-together", since that's how EVERY Disney movie is made, lol. There's always changes and revisions. Though Frozen seems to suffer the most from them, it's possibly because they're so open about having to change things. Heck, the first movie went as far as to have Idina record dialogue as "Elsa the Villain", then as "Elsa the Mean Older Sister" before they swapped things again. This isn't anything new to this movies. Though it is fair to say that Honeymaren was possibly once more important to the overall story.
I love Elsa, and even though I'm ace, I still like it that it's open to interpretation if she's ace or something else. Representation is nice, even if it isn't my own. =) To be honest though... the representation from Elsa that's most important for me, is the representation of Social Anxiety Disorder. As someone who has struggled badly with it, "Let it go" feels really freeing. I just love the song!
I think one big part of analyzing "Let It Go" in particular is that it is her first reaction to being "Outed" just moments before this song. She freaked out and everyone "saw her queerness" without her wanting them to. So she runs away and isolates herself again. Before she had to hide *and* repress her Identity, now she still hides but without repressing this time. "I can be openly queer out here, where no one has to see me." There is safety in the obscure, in the out but unseen. Sound familiar? In Frozen 2, she cringes at her ice statue singing the song because she has been realizing that to be truly free she has to be out and public about it. You have to proudly stand tall and "show yourself" to the world without apology or shame. It only makes narrative sense for Disney to drop the veil of "she could be anything, you decide" precisely because of how the story has been going since the beginning. "Show Yourself" is explicitly saying "no more obscurity, no more ambiguity, I am 'X'! And I won't hide it anymore". After all, one of the first things she does when she returns from Ahtohallan (after hugging her sister) is to be at Honeymarens side, hold her hand, and accept her invitation to be with them.
The dating of yourself on being on Tumblr and college is blowing my mind. I always thought someone as thoughtful as you must have been at least a decade ahead of me; 3 years feels wild to me
I'd love to see Elsa in a short where she's pursued by two people, one a male, and one a female, and in the end she declines both, finally reconciling the fact that she doesn't want a relationship that goes beyond kinship, reinforcing her friendship with both. While it would be great to see Disney embrace a sexually Queer character, there is a lot less explicit Ace representation in modern media, and I think Disney would get a lot less pushback with an Ace than they would with a Homosexual character, so it would be far easier for them as a corporation.
When I heard about the Elsa being queer thing back in high school, I thought people were trying to make their headcanons canon. Now that I’m more comfortable with myself as a lesbian, and just letting people be who they are if it makes them happy (something I didn’t used to allow myself to), I can see it. When the let it go song began to play in the video, I almost started to cry because I saw. So I don’t know if she’s sapphic, or ace, but if her being those things make you comfortable with yourself, go for it! 👍🏻👍🏻
To be honest, I highly doubt Disney would have the balls to make this canon since they tend to prioritize licking the boots of the Chinese government above stuff like this.
Me: I'm really excited to see how you broach this topic since your videos are so well researched, enlightening, and... *Hedwig!* 💞 Anyway, fangasm aside, you not only met my expectations but (as usual) exceeded them. I can't think of how to express the sections that were educational to me without spoilers, but it's impressive and your work paid off. P.S Fabulous closing song as always. 🎶🏳️🌈
Ok ok hear me out: Elsa is a demisexual/graysexual lesbian. Since Frozen came out when I was six, it was a huge part of my first grade year. Even after other queercoded Disney characters appeared in new releases I was always drawn to Elsa. The Elsa is gay stuff on the internet really helped launch me into my own exploration of my sexuality and the Elsa is Ace deepened it. Now as I’m really starting to figure stuff out, I realized that Elsa was part of my “gay awakening”. Anyways, thank you for the video. Edit: Also the way you sang let it go almost make me cry, because that’s the exact way it plays in my head.
I was in the closet when I went to see Frozen in theatre with my high school friends and I was the only one crying to Let It Go. my friends were confused since it should be an empowering song lol. now it makes so much sense why I got so emotional hearing the song lol
I fell in love with "Let It Go" and it hit really hard because that was the year that I began to live outwardly as male full time. As a trans individual I felt so much in that song and I still do, then when Frozen 2 came out "Show Yourself" really resonated with the fct that I was coming to terms with the fact that I'm okay with who I am no matter what others say, and I feel a lot of representation with "Into the Unknown" not only with the queer representation, but I was discovereing that being polyamourus was a thing and it gives me poly vibes.
I really felt similar about Into the unknown and Show yourself as trans. They still remain important songs to me. In fact that statement you made about how queer people don’t need permission to read queerness into characters made me think about how much I connected with the character Agito from a 2006 anime called Origin: spirits of the past, who’s arc is Big trans vibes. Some part of me even finds Show yourself fitting for him as well. With his father revealed at the end instead of Elsa’s mother. And the river of ice as the Heart of the huge Forest that sits beside his village and what gives him his powers(which turn his hair silver and put him in a suspiciously binder-like crop top) in the story. Idk, im rambling now, but this was a beautiful video, thank you for creating it
Please, please, I beg you that you make a music channel or maybe just a TikTok for some singing clips. I LOVE your voice and I constantly come back to the end of your videos just to listen haha 🥺😭
It’s funny actually because the first movie and Elsa really hit me in a different way as I hadn’t fully realized my transness til a couple years later - her holding back her ice powers made me think of my panic and OCD-caused intrusive thoughts and how no matter how you try, holding it back hurts way more than letting it go and trying to deal with the ensuing wave of badness. Letting it go made me think of having a panic attack in public and at first being very scared and terrified of people seeing it but then realizing that it’ll always be better than shoving it down and making it even more explosive in the near future. Even with the amount of problematic stuff in the original movie and how much people despised it, it’ll always have a special place in my heart because of how it helped me process my mental illnesses at the time.
news man in background "Frozen's Elsa is indoctinating 5 year olds to become lesbian" fun fact, my sister actually did come out as a lesbian after seeing the film a few times and said it made her question her sexuality. And with frozen 2, another girl i know from years ago came out, also citing Elsa "awoke something" in her. I just find that funny, is all.
This is a very good discussion that I’ve wanted to sum up and compare to Luca. I’m not hating on Luca but a lot of people on Tiktok (many who are not queer) Like to paint Luca as this LGBT themed queer coated gay film even before the movie released because it’s to boy leads however it’s simply a children’s movie about sea monsters. There’s nothing wrong with that and if you find relatability with your experience to that movie that’s fine but you can’t get mad at the filmmakers for not making it gay enough when that was never there intention. Whereas else’s legacy is very much prevalent in the LGBTQ community. Let it go has become a queer anthem because of the themes of social isolation and self liberation.
In all the mentions of the people behind the voices, I'm surprised you didn't mention Elsa herself. One of Idina Menzel's major roles was on Broadway in Rent, where she plays a lesbian.
Another reason that she can be seen as queer coded can relate to her own voice actor. While Idena herself is not queer, she is really well known for her role as an out bisexual (Rent) and another character who experiences social isolation for her powers (Wicked).
Mutant. But I've been an X-Men fan for longer than I've been an Avatar fan, so I'm biased.... Speaking of the X-Men and Elsa, I find they have a lot in common in how their struggles, being of the fantastical nature, has allowed a lot of people with similar struggles in real life to identify with it. For the X-Men, any minority whether it's of a sexual or ethnical or religious or any other nature, or whether you're just an awkward teen going through puberty can identify with them. And Elsa has been identified, like the video says, with both L and A readings, as well as a possible Q and/or T reading, especially in the sequel. But remember when the first film first came out, there was also a lot of people who read it as a Mental Health allegory. A lot of people on the Autism spectrum could identify with Elsa, as well as people with depression and/or anxiety. And just from a personal perspective, I saw a lot of similarities with Elsas struggles that I have with my OCD. The fear of touching stuff, the fear of hurting others, how fear made it worse and turned one of your powers (creativity/Cryokinesis) against you. And the "conceal, don't feel, don't let it show" just resonated a bit too much with me since, well, if you have a mental illness or are neurodiverse, there's still the expectation of you to behave as if you didn't. That's the power of stories. To bridge our differences by showing us how similar we are.
There is literally nothing queer about Elsa. Just because she didn't end up with a guy doesn't mean she is gay, bi, ace or whatever. She isn't even coded as the classical flamboyant Disney villain so I don't see the "queercoding" people are talking about. All she is in the movies is a withdrawn person who wants to do her own thing and find her place in life. That's not necessarily a gay thing.
I feel weird admitting I like Let It Go It’s catchy and has a nice.. is meaning the word? I’m bad at words But just now it’s the overplayed, overrated, 8yo girl song and like I don’t wanna be the person who likes that, ya know? I struggle a lot with self-worth and caring too much about what people think of me, so I just wanna say I’m really grateful seeing everyone here talking about how Elsa and her songs mean a lot to them Almost every time a show or song I like becomes infamous for being cringy or whatever I end up just stopping watching/ listening to it even in private because I feel stupid so I never actually ended up listening to it around the time I started researching lgbtqia+ stuff and figuring out my own identity so the last time I listened to it I don’t think I thought of queerness at all, but I did definitely pick up on the general queer vibes of the character herself, at least once I had the vocabulary for that Anyway thanks y’all, I’ll stop typing whatever this was now
this reminds me of the incredibly similar #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend campaign. Steve Rogers' queer coding has many different layers and popular interpretations (trans allegories, gay and bi allegories, subtext, etc). in the early days of the mcu, lots of different queer fans flocked to that character for different reasons. then, as Disney helped build the mcu into something much more popular than it was pre-avengers, the most popular version of that queer reading became pop culture, talked about outside of queer spaces and in larger society (as gay propaganda, as just a homophobic joke, or even just as obvious subtext). eventually, Disney was forced to address it by fans, and their response was similarly lukewarm (and honestly, a lot more insulting with the direction they chose to take the character). but regardless of the canon direction they took Steve in, those queer readings of the story still exist and are discussed among queer fan communities, regardless of the amount of interest from the wider public. I think that's really cool: even if Disney doesn't view these queer readings as profitable or smart business decisions, that can never fully divorce those readings from the art and from the fans making them.
I think Elsa is whatever you want her to be. I agree that ace and gender queer people need an icon. I’m pretty selfish when I want her to be a lesbian because I’m gay and I want to see an out gay character in Disney. Because at the end of Mulan, he went back into the closet. He’ll always be a transgender man to me.
For me personaly Mulan is non-binary. Because they stated in the movie many times that they feel as if they don't belong among men nor women. But that could be me projectiong too lol
I related to that song too bc of my divorce. I didnt say she was separated tho did I. That community always pushing but blame the Christian community for the same.
I know there was a significant portion of the audience that shipped the sisters, and in response it was hilariously obvious how many opportunities they took to take away that strong intimacy between them. There were basically no heartfelt moments between them in the second movie, instead spending most of the film separated physically or upset with one another. They even made Elsa move away and insinuate the two hardly see each other anymore. xD
There has been an uptick in variations on the phrase "queer until stated otherwise" and that I htink heavily applies to Elsa. Hell, it could have been reinforced and aided in it's popular use by the Frozen films.
6:37 I’m not big fan of both movies, but let it go and into the unknown have been trans allegories to myself. Specially “Into the unknown” as the fear to transitioning (as a nonbinary trans person)
Actually I always find Elsa more Ace then a lesbian and personally I think her ending up with anybody will ruin it. I find Raya or Moana better fit for Lesbian.
Which Elsa song is your favorite? ❄️ Mine is "Into the Unknown"
Thanks again to Atlas VPN for sponsoring this video - get an 86% discount plus 3 months free by using our link: atlasv.pn/Dreamsounds
Same, Into the Unknown has such power behind it - it's lovely to listen to as a fan of musicals :)
My favorite is “Show Yourself” because it’s honestly so heartfelt but also versatile. I really see it as the most LGBT anthem. Particularly feeling like it works as a trans anthem.
I totally agree with that - this movie came out when I was first starting to put a name to my gender dysphoria and the lyrics really resonated with me. "I'm dying to meet you/Show yourself/It's your turn/Are you the one I've been looking for/All of my life?"
I could write like a whole thesis on Let It Go, why it connects so well for small girls, the good it did for young singers, and the changes it signalled in Hollywood musicals ❄️I mean, all her songs are totally showstoppers, but for me it was always the original :)
Both “Into the Unknown” and “Show Yourself” are amazing, but I gotta go with the latter I think
It’a interesting how she initially was a villain, the classic queercoded one, but then they wrote let it go and decided to change it. It was like they had gained synpathy and understanding for the archetype they have portrayed for so many years.
Wait. Why being villain it's queer? The reason she wasn't made a villain is her song. In addition, the Snow Queen in the original fairy tale is not exactly a villain, rather an antagonist.
@@temin2776 Disney villains have a loooong history of Queercoding
@@temin2776 long story short, when people were bad there were laws against lgbtq+ people being portrayed in media so people made their villans queer-coded so that they weren't arrested or something
Wait, wait. Why are you sure that this is exactly what the screenwriters had in mind when they wrote about villains? Do you think mannerism, narcissism and selfishness are "queer"? These are rather stereotypes about people who think too much about themselves. You don't call Onegin "queer". "Like a London dandy dressed." There are stereotypes about dandy too. These are generally stereotypes about empty people, coxcombs who think only about themselves and their appearance. I can tell you such characters from fairy tales that I have read. And vanity, whims, arrogance, narcissism are the traits of many villains, but this is natural. Mannerism is more like stereotypes about dandies.
And I really don't really understand what makes Elsa "queer". She is a girl who has been kept locked up for a long time and there really are reasons for this, if you believe the additional materials, originally there was a prediction about the trouble that would befall the kingdom and it was connected with Elsa's magic.
The Snow Queen on which Elsa was based is not exactly a villain, but rather an antagonist. A very beautiful ice maiden from Scandinavian fairy tales.
I was a little surprised when I found out that everyone interprets many of Elsa's songs differently for themselves. For me, the song "Let it go" tells about the state when you are in despair that everyone has left you and say: "Great! I don't need you!". And you think you've broken free and are free from the rules. This is a good association for the troubles that we experience in life. And I think I understand why many people draw so many parallels with themselves. We all want to be loved and to be free to express ourselves. But what distinguishes Elsa from other characters who are also experiencing similar difficulties?
I think they should've ditched the whole "we're not your Grandma's fairy tale romance" plot, but instead combined Elsa's escape and her personal journey from the sequel into one cohesive heroine's journey that could've been a meditation on being true to one's nature and then coming back on her own terms, not being dragged back.
YESSS
Great idea!
For me "Let it Go" and "Show Yourself" have been my personal anthems. The first to remind myself that it doesn't matter what others think, I am trans and I will continue to be me. The second is that it's okay to be myself, that it's okay to be me.
Frick, I'm starting to cry just thinking about it
Don't be ashamed to cry, those are some fricking good songs 😌 I don't know where you are in that whole journey, but I hope you get the love and support you deserve!!
I cry to show yourself everytime
That can be anybody. Me too and im straight.
We need to talk about LGBT+ headcanons more. When it comes to Disney, Dr.Doofenshmirtz being a trans man is one of my favorite popular headcanons!
oh? I’ve never heard of trans doofenshmirtz, I’m going to have to think about that :)
Ofc he is
Someone should tell Dan I bet he'd love that
Elaborate
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 the first thing that comes to mind is one of the many wild backstories he gets features his mother making him wear dresses because she wanted a daughter, which echoes the sentiment of many trans people whose parents aren't accepting of their identity in part out of a sense of losing the child they thought they had. There's other stuff but it escapes me now, I'll look it up
For me I always liked Elsa the most when I was in 3rd grade like all the others. Though looking back on it, it probably must've been my own identity struggles that I've just kept internalized. For a bit I tried hating Elsa because I didn't want to be seen as, "Too girly" but I still liked her because there was a level of comfort. Overtime I just said, "Fuck it" like her and became open with myself as a trans man, and get comfortable again with anything considered "Too girly" with no care of people's thoughts or opinions on my own identity.
I’m gonna have to deal with the fact that the movie came out my first year of college but you were in third grade 😅
But that’s awesome for you! I like that Elsa is a very vague character who can be a representative for a lot of groups. I kinda hope they don’t flatly stick her in a group at this point.
Bro same, I "hated" those girly girls and thought it was too girly, but when I saw Elsa for the first time, she was really pretty and my 5th grade ass saw frozen 1 atleast thrice a month just to see her in the movie. Then I realised, that being girly girl isn't wrong and Elsa is just pretty cuz she is, it isn't the matter abt girlish or boyish. And she's still my fav chara cuz of this, I found out I am bi. And no matter how much I hated frozen 2's plot (the plot felt strechy in terms of her ice power and true calling cuz then spirits were introduced and etc stuff, I wish they focus another movie on perspective of Elsa and everything that goes in her mind or full perspective from Anna, abt how hard it is to rule a kingdom and to maintain herself.) I still liked it cuz it resonated with me
as an ace lesbian, I resonate with elsa a lot. and she’s very pretty :)
You can't be both ace and lesbian
@@Cupcake_Royale Lesbian can mean sexually attracted, Romantically attracted, Or both in this case they are romantically lesbian because they are asexual. Got it
@@Cupcake_Royale that's not true. someone can be romantically attracted to a girl as a girl and also not be sexually attracted to any gender. and vice versa, someone can be sexually attracted to a girl as a girl and also not be romantically attracted to any gender.
@@Cupcake_Royale Yes you can. I’m a Heteromantic ace, meaning I have romantic attraction for boys but not sexual attraction. People can have romantic attraction to other people but not always sexual, we just don’t feel that kind of attraction.
@@lulub517 already got that lol
Until Disney gives us any confirmation, which may be never, I'm going to continue to see Elsa as ace. She could still be lesbian or aro, but considering that literally the only canon representation of my sexual preference in media I've seen is Peridot from Steven Universe (a fantastic example but still the only one), I'm headcanoning that Elsa is also ace
What about Todd from "BoJack Horseman"?
@@temin2776 I am aware of him, I’ve just never seen Bojack so I don’t have any context to how he is represented
He's a very interesting character. Such a lucky loser. At first, he does not quite understand who he is and therefore he has difficulties with relationships. Watch the series, I highly recommend it. In addition, do not forget about one of the greatest characters - Monkey D Luffy.
I get those vibes as well. But I am also AroAce and therefor probably a little bias, but Elsa being ace adds a lot of weight and angst to Anna's accusation that Elsa knows nothing about love and "all you know is how to push people out"
There's also no real indication that she cares about that kind of thing? and I'm gonna cling to representation of Elsa being welcome to spend time with Anna and her SO and not be treated like a 3rd wheel cuz that's such a ever-present source of social awkwardness as an adult aroace
Also "you are the one you've been waiting for" is just such a powerful line of self-acceptance for someone who might feel wrong or lacking for not following the standard "find a partner, get married, yadda yadda yadda" sort of life
I sort of have hope that Disney will have lgbt representation sometime in the near future, especially when they’re getting more brave like showing the Owl House, and also not showing movies like Shang Chi, Eternals, and Spider-Man in China, and still making a profit off these movies, goes to show that they care less about catering to countries with homophobic governments
Elsa's story resonated with me as an autistic starting to break out of an abusive household.
Yeah, I have ADHD (possibly autism, but not official), and I had to hide it all through school, and it was hard on me. To me, Elsa running to the mountain reminded me of hiding in my closet with a GameBoy and a bunch of pillows to try and avoid a meltdown before I knew what a meltdown was.
I hadn't thought of that but I can see it
At this point I hope she stays just queercoded. I think she's been too important to people of multiple orientations at this point, confirming her as any one thing would make her specific representation for one orientation, rather than an icon for all of us.
I agree. I think there are many ways Disney could do it - like I said in the video, Elsa being explicitly LGBTQIA+ would be a win because of how she is currently one of Disney's most popular characters. However, working more explicit representation into the Disney catalogue while keeping Elsa's story open could also be a way to have her be the last of the "queercoded" characters and also keep her story relevant to the whole community.
Actually I don't see what actually make her queer. I thought she just a character who doesn't need to be in a couple.
i';ve seen people say cis aro-aces, cis romantic-asexuals, cis asexual-romantics are not queer. there is a whole fb page dedicated to it, and fb dosen't think it's hate speech
@@kaiyodei cishet aros/aces do not experience homophobia, that is true, but the experience of being aro, ace, or both, is outside the default societal expectation of heterosexuality, and therefore inherently queer. Could care less what facebook does or does not determine "hate speech", that's irrelevant. Aros and aces are queer and belong in the LGBT community.
@@kaiyodei once someone grows up with a different perspective on romance/sex/relationships, their understanding of it will always be different and often more complicated than that of a cis-hetero-allosexual. the prevalence of straight relationships in media can be confusing and even suffocating, and trying to understand why that is and why a lot of people don’t mind at all already sets someone at a more complicated view on the subject.
having such a different perspective on something that is “innate” and assumed is what makes us queer. there is a proposed “this is the way things are for everyone” and queer people challenge that.
the funny part is how people genuinely think Disney will give Elsa a canonical girlfriend knowing how homophobic they are
i know for a fact that many of the wdas staff would be completely okay with it. it’s the higher ups that they would have to fight tooth and nail with. if getting Luisa to be muscular was a battle, imagine actually doing something like this.
The movie wouldn't be able to release in some major markets then. As much as I hate to say this, their first gay movie will probably be some low budget Disney+ movie.
I remember when I first saw frozen, I was around 12 and it was when I was starting to realize how I was diffrent from others, and i remember when i figured out i wasnt cishet, I heard Let it go In a different light and when I felt sad or dysphoric I'd sing that almost to tell myself that some day I'll let It go and be able to be myself, and honestly to this day it's still a huge comfort to me.
I found the key difference between Brave and Frozens princess narrative was in Brave Merida didn't have a love interest, but the plot was still centered on her betrothal. In Frozen Elsa is not related to any form of romantic relashionship plotline.
Merida is an aroace arrow ace
I used to love her so much and loved that she didn’t need a man.
but she never said anything about needing a women. Or maybe she just wants to be an independent woman or something
@@Cupcake_Royale Ik that’s why I love her I never said that she wanted or needed a women
I'm so happy you've made a video about Elsa being queer 😭❤️ she's such an icon!! I loved Frozen 2 so much, Into the Unknown is so good🥺💖 her journey of self discovery is so familiar to me.
in my opinion, it makes the most sense to have a confirmation of aro ace. it’s simple, conservatives won’t get it, she literally makes life by herself, and i’m sure disney is never going to give her a girlfriend. i’m super jaded so this influences it but it would be a nice step and i don’t think it was ever planned to give her a romantic interest, tho i could be wrong.
I agree after the ending of frozen 2 it felt like she doesn't need a king or queen by her side it be great to have some Aro and ace representation too 👍✨
As an Ace, I never got the "give Elsa a girlfriend" bandwagon. I just get super ace vibes from her.
Plus Aro Ace Elsa steps away from the only aro Ace stereotype we have, that of someone cold and computer like. Elsa is a very warm and emotional person more than capable of haveing lots of love for her friends and family. She just has no need for romantic love.
Fellow ACE/Aro here and I definitely got those vibes from Elsa. I personally don’t need “confirmation” of it - it makes me happy to see others interpreting her in a similar way, and I really like the ambiguity of it all.
jaded that disney refuses to ever make anything explicitly gay?
I was 12 when Frozen came out and was staying with my grandma, who decided to take me to see it. I had come to terms with being a lesbian at this point; I was petrified of what everyone around me would think, though. I felt so trapped. Elsa’s story (and let it go in particular) made me feel so seen as a kid- I was 12 fighting back tears because I saw myself on screen for one fleeting moment. Experiences like those are what pushed me to go into animation, and now I’m a senior in college with a desire to advocate for meaningful representation on and off screen. This video is beautiful, just like all of your others. :) this phenomenon was so interesting to see and experience online; I think so many of us queer kids flocked to these platforms like tumble where these conversations were normalized, and in a weird way I think it was life saving; we have the opportunity queer people may not have had before us, and that’s a readily available community anywhere you go.
:) Again, phenomenal video. Your singing never fails to give me chills. 💖
I literally screeched with joy when I saw that this video had come out. As a lesbian, this character and her lesbian-coding means SO much to me.
One of the Disney kingdom-building mobile games had an event with Honeymaren and Elsa that felt like the writers had a bet going on about how much gay subtext they could put into the duo without their bosses catching on. Like, they literally Elsa Honeymaren's "Gal Pal." It's hilarious.
Anyway, this was a great video! You approach the situation from a lot of angles, which I always appropriate. I'm curious what will happen with Elsa in the future, as she's such a huge icon of pop culture relative to the other modern queer-coded Disney leads. I imagine there are some Disney execs running risk-benefit analyses and the risk of Elsa getting banned in certain countries or being boycotted by queerphobic parents is probably MASSIVE relative to, say, the risk of Raya being banned were Kelly Marie Tran's interpretation of her as a lesbian to become canonized. That said, that also makes it much harder for me to be cynical about the idea of Elsa as being queer, as I think any confirmation of Elsa's queerness would end up being both affirming for queer people and a sort of triumph of artists being able to tell their stories at Disney regardless of the bottom line...
Brendon Urie's pansexual, not bi
i know it's just a small thing, but it just kinda gets on my nerves as a pansexual person when people call pansexual celebrities bi, because we get so little representation and so few public figures to look up to that identify the same way we do. it's nice to have that little bit of a connection, especially with artists you've really liked for a long time, y'know?
Oh my god
Pan nic at the disco
All the puns were for a reason
what’s the difference between being pansexual or bisexual?
@@Sad-rc9fw the most commonly agreed upon definition for pan (and the one i identify most with) is that pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender, whereas bisexual usually means you’re attracted to two or more genders.
I will say though, that a lot of people, bi or pan, have their own personal definitions as to what their sexuality means to them and while sometimes the two can seem really similar, the distinction between them can be really important to some people and deserves to be validated, not debated. :)
@@identitycrisis5020 ahhh i see thank you for explaining it to me ^^
@@Sad-rc9fw There's an aspect of the bisexual label that has to do with the history of the lgbt. Some people might fit the mold of pansexuality but it's just not how they identify due to their history with rep. Sort of in the same way some trans folks, particularly older trans people, cling to "transexual" as their label instead of "transgender".
I see Elsa more as an asexual. She was suppressed by her parents as a child, then she suffered their loss when she turned 18. So of course her childhood wasn't the best one. Also, Elsa said that "you can't just marry the person you just met", meaning that she's at least demisexual.
but she's saying that to anna tho. that doesn't necessarily apply to her lol
I noticed that demisexuals are people who only experience attraction after they have an emotional connection between each other, unlike other orientations
Not really. I think when Elsa told Anna she can't marry a person she just met she was telling her to take a closer look as Hans, a character who turned out to be untrustworthy and only wanted to exploit Anna.
That line is actually very similar to Kristoff telling Anna the same thing when he figures out Hans is a complete stranger to her. Unlike Elsa, who has poor communication skills, Kristoff is able to bring his point across to Anna better.
Elsa came across as being against Anna marrying quickly in general rather than Hans giving off red flags to her.
Personnaly, I headcanon Elsa as demi-sexual lesbian for some months 🤷🏽♀️ I understand people who want her to be aroace or aroace lesbian, but I could easily imagine Elsa falling in love (with Honeymaren of course). She is the first reason of why I think Elsa is lesbian.
So, we don't have to forget it's Disney, that will never be a question of sexual orientation, yes for romantic orientation or only attraction, but no sexual way. I think Elsa can feel sexual attraction but "not now". It matches very well with her character cause everytime de have to wait a moment for her to do what she have to. With Elsa it's never now, there is always a period before. That's why I headcanon her as demi-sexual :D
I used to get a lot of push back for suggesting that Elsa was asexual or aromantic. I'm glad we've grown so we can allow a character to represent more than one thing.
I first heard "Let it Go" when I was at the lowest point of my eating disorder and it really clicked with me. I would say it did play a part in me getting help. Also I do wish media would stop portrayed asexual as something you need to be cured from or that somethings "wrong" with you. So I see why Elsa is important even if everyone doesn't see her that way. I haven't seen Frozen 2 yet but at least as far as I know, no one is trying to force Elsa to date...
Honestly, Elsa is the main reason I discovered my sexuality. Especially her song "Let it go", which i sang non-stop for days. I was still a teenager when Frozen came out, and I've moved on from that obsession now, but Elsa will always have a special place in my heart and in my history.
I revisited the music of Frozen 2 recently and I’m surprised you didn’t break down the lyrics of “Into the Unknown” a bit more, because from my understanding, they basically confirm Elsa views the mysterious voice as a romantic figure. She doesn’t know that it’s her “true self” calling for her or whatever, and she talks to it as of it’s someone trying to seduce her. “And if I heard you, which I don't / I'm spoken for, I fear”.
“Everyone I've ever loved is here within these walls. / I'm sorry, secret siren, but I'm blocking out your calls.” The word “siren” is often associated with mysterious seductresses.
The movie reminds me of those old lesbian pulp fiction novels in which a character could be as openly lesbian as they wanted, as long as they were either heterosexual or suffered some tragedy by the end of the book. Elsa could be explicitly gay in her first major song, as long as she’s “actually just discovering her true self” by the end of her second song. It felt like the creative team desperately wanted to make her openly gay, and were able to fight for a degree of that openness to make it to the final movie, but weren’t able to go the whole way due to Disney’s interference.
I find it interesting how, in the second movie, when elsa is going through the memories of the past, or something -- i dont remember -- she turns away from from herself singing "let it go" when it sounds, as if its a painful memory. I really dont know if it means anything, or if it even could. I just find it interesting :P
Maybe ironic. It like many people don't like that song after, you know, they heard it over and over and over...
My head cannon is that Idunna was Honemerren's aunt.
I think Elsa not having a romantic relationship takes pressure off of young people, and that's how she best serves as a role modle.
I'd rather see the creators of the Frozen franchise quit now and go onto other projects rather milk a cash cow dry.
Yeah, and even Anna with her unusual relationships, it shows people that you don't need the perfect fairytale to be happy, as most movies prior ended with a romance, but in real life, it's much more complicated, so it was nice to see that you don't need a partner, and who you think you'll marry at one point in time, isn't who you'll actually end up with.
yeah. we need more of that for everyone, especally kids. the "you aren't anyone, or happy, or complete unless you have a special someone" is damaging. you can't have a happy ever after by yourself, and if you do it with wealth and fame, that is 'evil'. if your happily ever after is living with 5,000 rescued farm animals, you are a animal obcessed weirdo.
No arguments on the latter part but to clarify, Elsa is absolutely not related to Honeymaren in the least. They could have very easily alluded to that during the conversation about the scarf but instead of saying the pattern is of "our family" she said "one of our (Northuldras) oldest families." Not all native people in a single tribe are of the same clan or blood related, many are as related to each other as I likely am to you, let alone between tribes in the same ethnicity (Northuldra). Honeymaren and Ryder are Nattura. We don't yet know Idunas last name prior to marrying.
I did some looking and it looks like the Northuldra are all connected as a people, there are many tribes separate from each other. While Iduna is Northuldra, she isn't from the same tribe as the one Yelena runs. She was found by the older woman and brought into the tribe as a young child well before meeting Arendellians. This is all in supplementary material that *could* have been used to forever kill the ship but explicitly did not do so. There is zero chance that Elsa and Honeymaren are cousins.
@@FarronMoon I've since read a passage in the book Dangerous Secrets in which we learn that the tribe Idunna was born into had been wiped out for some reason and Yelena's tribe adopted her. I'm still leaving my original comment up, however.
@@ethenallen1388 I dearly hope I did not come off as aggressive here, I do appreciate all the different readings of Elsa whether she is Ace, Aro, Bi, Lesbian or just a straight girl who decides to stay single. I am partial towards lesbian Elsa because reasons but all headcanons are valid.
.. Except Jelsa, I abhor that ship.
I really appreciate that this didn’t focus only on the lesbian reading, it’s a shame that because it’s the loudest it often drowns the aroace interpretation (sometimes maliciously by ace exclusionary people, sometimes just out of ignorance on the levels of those people who say this pushes an evil agenda). It’s always really nice (though sadly it’s always a surprise) to see your identities being heard and recognized 💜
I always thought aroace lesbian Elsa would be a good way to incorporate it all in a way that wouldn’t erase either orientation interpretation too much, so +1 to that 😁
It's really a shame how much aro ace interpretation/representation gets pushed aside in favor of shipping (not people shipping for fun, the people pushing ships to be cannon). It happened with BBC Sherlock. It's happening with Alastor in Hazbin Hotel.
Then you have people who keep saying "you can be aro ace and still have a relationship" while technically it is true, it still comes across as completely tone deaf on how it erases the aro ace people who really don't want a romantic relationship at all. Just because people want to shoe horn romance into literally everything.
The fact is that there is no confirmation about Alastor that he is aromantic, although I think he is one of those who is not interested in such things at all. However, the canon confirms that women flirt with him and that he is asexual. The words that he is aromantic were said by the animator on the stream, but she is a famous prankster, so it's hard to say whether this is really a fact. Remember when Angel Dust's real name was Martin, and now it's Anthony.
Genuine question: How the fuck can you be a aroace lesbian? Being both aromantic and asexual means you're not romanticaly or sexualy atracted to anyone, so how can someone also be a lesbian, when that means they're a woman that's romaticaly and/or sexualy attracted to other women. HOW CAN THESE TWO THINGS GO TOGETHER?? I'm aroace and I'm very confused.
@ZeroInfinity Since you're aroace it may make things easier to explain, because you're at least a bit aware that there can be a split in the types of attraction you may experience hence aro and ace both, it's just a matter that it's not limited to those two. Lesbian describes a fem-alligned to fem-alligned attraction, but it's not limited to romantic and sexual, commonly it wouldn't be used to describe a platonic attraction, but it is often used to describe sensual (relating to the senses, for exmple liking the sensation of that person cuddling you or liking someone's smell), alterous (weird grey area between romantic and platonic), aesthetic (a feeling of liking a person kinda sorta like you'd find a painting or a song pleasing) or other types of tertiary attraction, or any combination of attraction types.
It's also the case with people who may want to be in relationships despite not feeling the attraction, that they could use the term lesbian to refer to their preferences when it comes to who they'd form these relationships with, instead of their attraction per se, it's just simpler to use that terminology and clarify if needed.
@@zeroinfinity3325 fellow Ace here (but not aro), the simple answer is that relationships are complicated, and getting involved in a relationship doesn't have to require sexual or romantic attraction for someone to get something out of the relationship (for example someone can enjoy the companionship and be willing to perform romantic/sexual gestures for their partner in exchange). Also, I'm sure you are aware of the sex positive, sex neutral, sex repulsed spectrum for aces. An aro ace femme/female person on the sex positive/neutral side could have a preference for other femme/female individuals, even if that preference doesn't manifest as actual sexual attraction.
Regardless, while it can exist, aro ace people who really don't want anything to do with sex and relationships shouldn't be pushed aside in the process.
I hate that people assume women are lesbians because they don’t wanna date a man or anyone for that matter, did the writers say Shes a lesbian? Or did the audience just assume?
What if she’s aromantic or asexual or whatever else, and don’t think I’m being homophobic, because I’m not, I’m being logical, seriously.
True
I think it's due to the lack of LGBT people in media so people take what few there are but yeah, aces have pretty much no representation outside of Bojack Horseman so it's even worse for them. I think it's just because there's a lot more gay people than ace people so they try to claim these characters.
Are we just going to ignore the fact Kistof had way more chemistry with that reindeer guy that with Ana in the second movie?
As a trans man, I resonated with all three of her songs from a trans lens. I think it's awesome that so many people can relate to her.
"But running away and building your own ice castle isn't the only way to stay safe...." Amazing segueway to the ad! lol
I think she should be left open for queer interpretation so we can ALL see ourselves in her story.
I understand where you come from, but I have a different opinion. I'm tired of seeing possibly LGBTQIA2S+ characters in movies, I want them to be explicitly LGBTQIA2S+. I feel that would be a relief to me
@Alex it's a shame isn't it? Confirm and exclude, or be ambiguous and not commit. It's unfair for LGBT folk; getting inconsistent representation like that.
You tube interrupted the song with an ad about a guy who started a song but got interrupted by adds… for you tube premium
frozen will forever be a special story to me. show yourself helped me come to terms with my sexuality and made me feel seen in a way I can’t even describe. I remember listening to show yourself in the car and sobbing while the sun was setting with pink, blue, and purple hues shining all around. it felt like a sign and the lyrics made me want to share who i was with others and that it’s okay to be me.
both anna and elsa hold pieces of my heart
I remember watching frozen for the first time, i was 11 and immediately saw myself in else. First with my physical disabilities, then with my autism. And i did not know yet really what it meant to be asexual, but i saw myself in her not having a romantic interest. She didnt have a prince she married at the end, and as someone raised as a girl i felt like my ending was supposed to be marrying a man. But she didnt, she had love though, her sister was her true love at the end. Making me realize that love doesnt need to be romantic or sexual. Love is so much more. Its a message that so many kids need for so many aspects. People who are outcasts in many ways see themselves in her and for kids that can change their world view and make them feel less alone
As a non-binary ace/pan person, I'm surprised that I haven't heard of Elsa being queer coded until recently.
As a gay person, same
pansexual or panromantic???
@@therandomidiotontheinternet Panromantic. I... don't understand why you needed to ask that.
@@seasaltsky fr it was so unnecessary…
I also love aroace Elsa interpretation. Both are great and i wish either was canon
I honestly can see Elsa's character working as a lesbian, even if it isn't explicitly confirmed by Disney (and, knowing them, never will be).
I'm literally currently writing my animation studies essay on queer theory in frozen/elsa's character for university THIS IS SO AWESOMEEEEE!!
I didn't get a notification but as soon as I saw that a new video was uploaded... no ma'm I'm gonna learn after this. And way better, it's about Elsa, through the character where I fully realized that I'm gay as a bean.
Thank you Dreamsounds as always for you're dedicated and heartfelt videos!
Lovely video as always! I think Disney characters have this beautiful sense of applicability to them - conceivably, they can be anything. Elsa is definitely one of those characters. While I do feel we need to be wary of the fact that it can slip into Disney getting credit for doing essentially the bare minimum in terms of representation, I cannot deny the fact that a lot of people in the lgbt+ community can see themselves in her. And I love to see it! I have a dear friend who identifies as aroace, so I'm tempted to think of Elsa as such.
In terms of music I'm still fond of Let It Go!
1)Elsa Songs.
A) "Let it go" was a beautiful song about Elsa embracing her powers and finally using them and not feeling restrained anymore.
B) "Into the unknown" is about Elsa's struggle to answer the call to where she belongs. To her mother. To her destiny to save Erendale and the Enchanted forest.
C) "Show yourself /Grow yourself" is the ending of Elsa's finding herself character ark. It means, being comfortable and happy with the knowledge of her destiny, her power, where she comes from and that she is the fifth force.
These are character growth songs . OBVIOUSLY.
NOT coming out songs.
Elsa is not lgbt of any form.
I never even noticed how much elsas song feels related to being lesbian like it seriously sounds like it was written abt the lesbian experience
Every time I stumble upon your videos I forget you have bits where you just sing the songs and it’s always a pleasant little treat :))
I adore the classy bakground music, i's always nice to watch your video essays early in the morning, simple with great information and thought. keep it up, I love this :)
This movies came out when I was in middle schools. Its been a long time.
your editing style has improved so much over these months! loving it
To me, Elsa is aro ace. And to others she can be whatever they want. I love how her sexuality can be whatever you want her to be. (No, it's not thanks to Disney. Don't praise Disney for it, it was accidental. Disney would never do that)
Honestly ... I would like Elsa to have a female OR non-binary partner ... that way we get representation either way
Im happy to see so many comments callong for Elsa to be Ace
I have never encountered on this platform someone speaking about androgyny/enby like you. Thanks. I feel less alone.
I don't think it's QUITE fair to say "Now that we know the movie was hastily-put-together", since that's how EVERY Disney movie is made, lol. There's always changes and revisions. Though Frozen seems to suffer the most from them, it's possibly because they're so open about having to change things. Heck, the first movie went as far as to have Idina record dialogue as "Elsa the Villain", then as "Elsa the Mean Older Sister" before they swapped things again. This isn't anything new to this movies. Though it is fair to say that Honeymaren was possibly once more important to the overall story.
You’re guitar playing and voice is beautiful. Keep it up.
I love Elsa, and even though I'm ace, I still like it that it's open to interpretation if she's ace or something else. Representation is nice, even if it isn't my own. =)
To be honest though... the representation from Elsa that's most important for me, is the representation of Social Anxiety Disorder. As someone who has struggled badly with it, "Let it go" feels really freeing. I just love the song!
I think one big part of analyzing "Let It Go" in particular is that it is her first reaction to being "Outed" just moments before this song. She freaked out and everyone "saw her queerness" without her wanting them to.
So she runs away and isolates herself again. Before she had to hide *and* repress her Identity, now she still hides but without repressing this time. "I can be openly queer out here, where no one has to see me." There is safety in the obscure, in the out but unseen. Sound familiar?
In Frozen 2, she cringes at her ice statue singing the song because she has been realizing that to be truly free she has to be out and public about it. You have to proudly stand tall and "show yourself" to the world without apology or shame.
It only makes narrative sense for Disney to drop the veil of "she could be anything, you decide" precisely because of how the story has been going since the beginning. "Show Yourself" is explicitly saying "no more obscurity, no more ambiguity, I am 'X'! And I won't hide it anymore".
After all, one of the first things she does when she returns from Ahtohallan (after hugging her sister) is to be at Honeymarens side, hold her hand, and accept her invitation to be with them.
The dating of yourself on being on Tumblr and college is blowing my mind. I always thought someone as thoughtful as you must have been at least a decade ahead of me; 3 years feels wild to me
Idk I think ace aro makes the most sense.
That singing at the end gave me mad goosebumps.
I'd love to see Elsa in a short where she's pursued by two people, one a male, and one a female, and in the end she declines both, finally reconciling the fact that she doesn't want a relationship that goes beyond kinship, reinforcing her friendship with both.
While it would be great to see Disney embrace a sexually Queer character, there is a lot less explicit Ace representation in modern media, and I think Disney would get a lot less pushback with an Ace than they would with a Homosexual character, so it would be far easier for them as a corporation.
Great video! Thanks Jake and John!
When I heard about the Elsa being queer thing back in high school, I thought people were trying to make their headcanons canon. Now that I’m more comfortable with myself as a lesbian, and just letting people be who they are if it makes them happy (something I didn’t used to allow myself to), I can see it. When the let it go song began to play in the video, I almost started to cry because I saw. So I don’t know if she’s sapphic, or ace, but if her being those things make you comfortable with yourself, go for it! 👍🏻👍🏻
Elsa is an anagram for A LES.
I’m on to you, Disney!!
I just wanna say that you have a very pretty singing and I love your acoustic covers. Keep up the great work!
To be honest, I highly doubt Disney would have the balls to make this canon since they tend to prioritize licking the boots of the Chinese government above stuff like this.
12:05 Brendon Urie is actually pansexual.
Me: I'm really excited to see how you broach this topic since your videos are so well researched, enlightening, and... *Hedwig!* 💞
Anyway, fangasm aside, you not only met my expectations but (as usual) exceeded them. I can't think of how to express the sections that were educational to me without spoilers, but it's impressive and your work paid off.
P.S Fabulous closing song as always. 🎶🏳️🌈
🤨🤔To Me,She’s more Aromantic and/or Asexual than a Lesbian cause She both have no Romantic and Sexual Attractions to mostly Any and Every Peoples…
Elsa is my favorite aroace headcanon and most relatable character 💜🤍💚🖤
Ok ok hear me out: Elsa is a demisexual/graysexual lesbian. Since Frozen came out when I was six, it was a huge part of my first grade year. Even after other queercoded Disney characters appeared in new releases I was always drawn to Elsa. The Elsa is gay stuff on the internet really helped launch me into my own exploration of my sexuality and the Elsa is Ace deepened it. Now as I’m really starting to figure stuff out, I realized that Elsa was part of my “gay awakening”. Anyways, thank you for the video.
Edit:
Also the way you sang let it go almost make me cry, because that’s the exact way it plays in my head.
Got the most lovely chills from your beautiful acoustic rendition, Jake!
let it go and ring in the season reprise is like heaven for my ears
I was in the closet when I went to see Frozen in theatre with my high school friends and I was the only one crying to Let It Go. my friends were confused since it should be an empowering song lol. now it makes so much sense why I got so emotional hearing the song lol
I fell in love with "Let It Go" and it hit really hard because that was the year that I began to live outwardly as male full time. As a trans individual I felt so much in that song and I still do, then when Frozen 2 came out "Show Yourself" really resonated with the fct that I was coming to terms with the fact that I'm okay with who I am no matter what others say, and I feel a lot of representation with "Into the Unknown" not only with the queer representation, but I was discovereing that being polyamourus was a thing and it gives me poly vibes.
this was such a nice video thank u!!
also it reminded me than in 2years time as of now frozen is going to turn 10 😧😧 i feel old
I really felt similar about Into the unknown and Show yourself as trans. They still remain important songs to me. In fact that statement you made about how queer people don’t need permission to read queerness into characters made me think about how much I connected with the character Agito from a 2006 anime called Origin: spirits of the past, who’s arc is Big trans vibes. Some part of me even finds Show yourself fitting for him as well. With his father revealed at the end instead of Elsa’s mother. And the river of ice as the Heart of the huge Forest that sits beside his village and what gives him his powers(which turn his hair silver and put him in a suspiciously binder-like crop top) in the story. Idk, im rambling now, but this was a beautiful video, thank you for creating it
Please, please, I beg you that you make a music channel or maybe just a TikTok for some singing clips. I LOVE your voice and I constantly come back to the end of your videos just to listen haha 🥺😭
It’s funny actually because the first movie and Elsa really hit me in a different way as I hadn’t fully realized my transness til a couple years later - her holding back her ice powers made me think of my panic and OCD-caused intrusive thoughts and how no matter how you try, holding it back hurts way more than letting it go and trying to deal with the ensuing wave of badness. Letting it go made me think of having a panic attack in public and at first being very scared and terrified of people seeing it but then realizing that it’ll always be better than shoving it down and making it even more explosive in the near future. Even with the amount of problematic stuff in the original movie and how much people despised it, it’ll always have a special place in my heart because of how it helped me process my mental illnesses at the time.
news man in background "Frozen's Elsa is indoctinating 5 year olds to become lesbian"
fun fact, my sister actually did come out as a lesbian after seeing the film a few times and said it made her question her sexuality. And with frozen 2, another girl i know from years ago came out, also citing Elsa "awoke something" in her.
I just find that funny, is all.
This is a very good discussion that I’ve wanted to sum up and compare to Luca. I’m not hating on Luca but a lot of people on Tiktok (many who are not queer) Like to paint Luca as this LGBT themed queer coated gay film even before the movie released because it’s to boy leads however it’s simply a children’s movie about sea monsters. There’s nothing wrong with that and if you find relatability with your experience to that movie that’s fine but you can’t get mad at the filmmakers for not making it gay enough when that was never there intention. Whereas else’s legacy is very much prevalent in the LGBTQ community. Let it go has become a queer anthem because of the themes of social isolation and self liberation.
You should do a video about the controversy surrounding queer head-canons in Encanto. It’s all over TikTok.
In all the mentions of the people behind the voices, I'm surprised you didn't mention Elsa herself. One of Idina Menzel's major roles was on Broadway in Rent, where she plays a lesbian.
Another reason that she can be seen as queer coded can relate to her own voice actor. While Idena herself is not queer, she is really well known for her role as an out bisexual (Rent) and another character who experiences social isolation for her powers (Wicked).
Yes, but what would you identify Elsa out of the following two categories?
Mutant or Waterbender?
Water bender
Water bender
Mutant. But I've been an X-Men fan for longer than I've been an Avatar fan, so I'm biased....
Speaking of the X-Men and Elsa, I find they have a lot in common in how their struggles, being of the fantastical nature, has allowed a lot of people with similar struggles in real life to identify with it.
For the X-Men, any minority whether it's of a sexual or ethnical or religious or any other nature, or whether you're just an awkward teen going through puberty can identify with them.
And Elsa has been identified, like the video says, with both L and A readings, as well as a possible Q and/or T reading, especially in the sequel.
But remember when the first film first came out, there was also a lot of people who read it as a Mental Health allegory. A lot of people on the Autism spectrum could identify with Elsa, as well as people with depression and/or anxiety. And just from a personal perspective, I saw a lot of similarities with Elsas struggles that I have with my OCD. The fear of touching stuff, the fear of hurting others, how fear made it worse and turned one of your powers (creativity/Cryokinesis) against you. And the "conceal, don't feel, don't let it show" just resonated a bit too much with me since, well, if you have a mental illness or are neurodiverse, there's still the expectation of you to behave as if you didn't.
That's the power of stories. To bridge our differences by showing us how similar we are.
@@theyakkoman perfectly said
There is literally nothing queer about Elsa. Just because she didn't end up with a guy doesn't mean she is gay, bi, ace or whatever. She isn't even coded as the classical flamboyant Disney villain so I don't see the "queercoding" people are talking about. All she is in the movies is a withdrawn person who wants to do her own thing and find her place in life. That's not necessarily a gay thing.
Yeah but people are allowed to see themselves in characters they relate to
Disney needs to make a movie about a gay male superhero hero who falls in love with a prince
Why?
Sounds kinda random. I do want a feature length gay movie though.
I feel weird admitting I like Let It Go
It’s catchy and has a nice.. is meaning the word? I’m bad at words
But just now it’s the overplayed, overrated, 8yo girl song and like I don’t wanna be the person who likes that, ya know?
I struggle a lot with self-worth and caring too much about what people think of me, so I just wanna say I’m really grateful seeing everyone here talking about how Elsa and her songs mean a lot to them
Almost every time a show or song I like becomes infamous for being cringy or whatever I end up just stopping watching/ listening to it even in private because I feel stupid so I never actually ended up listening to it around the time I started researching lgbtqia+ stuff and figuring out my own identity so the last time I listened to it I don’t think I thought of queerness at all, but I did definitely pick up on the general queer vibes of the character herself, at least once I had the vocabulary for that
Anyway thanks y’all, I’ll stop typing whatever this was now
this reminds me of the incredibly similar #givecaptainamericaaboyfriend campaign. Steve Rogers' queer coding has many different layers and popular interpretations (trans allegories, gay and bi allegories, subtext, etc). in the early days of the mcu, lots of different queer fans flocked to that character for different reasons. then, as Disney helped build the mcu into something much more popular than it was pre-avengers, the most popular version of that queer reading became pop culture, talked about outside of queer spaces and in larger society (as gay propaganda, as just a homophobic joke, or even just as obvious subtext). eventually, Disney was forced to address it by fans, and their response was similarly lukewarm (and honestly, a lot more insulting with the direction they chose to take the character). but regardless of the canon direction they took Steve in, those queer readings of the story still exist and are discussed among queer fan communities, regardless of the amount of interest from the wider public. I think that's really cool: even if Disney doesn't view these queer readings as profitable or smart business decisions, that can never fully divorce those readings from the art and from the fans making them.
I think Elsa is whatever you want her to be. I agree that ace and gender queer people need an icon. I’m pretty selfish when I want her to be a lesbian because I’m gay and I want to see an out gay character in Disney.
Because at the end of Mulan, he went back into the closet. He’ll always be a transgender man to me.
For me personaly Mulan is non-binary. Because they stated in the movie many times that they feel as if they don't belong among men nor women. But that could be me projectiong too lol
@@spidergirl6730 yes, i consider Mulan to be non binary. Shang is 100% bisexual though
Damn. Let It Go hits so much differently now.
Very good video! I want a full version of that ending song!!
I related to that song too bc of my divorce. I didnt say she was separated tho did I. That community always pushing but blame the Christian community for the same.
THAT LET HER KNOW VERSION-
I know there was a significant portion of the audience that shipped the sisters, and in response it was hilariously obvious how many opportunities they took to take away that strong intimacy between them. There were basically no heartfelt moments between them in the second movie, instead spending most of the film separated physically or upset with one another. They even made Elsa move away and insinuate the two hardly see each other anymore. xD
There has been an uptick in variations on the phrase "queer until stated otherwise" and that I htink heavily applies to Elsa. Hell, it could have been reinforced and aided in it's popular use by the Frozen films.
They may not have given Elsa a girlfriend but Show Yourself is still a coming out song
6:37 I’m not big fan of both movies, but let it go and into the unknown have been trans allegories to myself. Specially “Into the unknown” as the fear to transitioning (as a nonbinary trans person)
i’m happy if she’s either lesbian or aro/ace, hell both like asexual homoromantic. she’s perfect to encapsulate sapphic CompHet
Actually I always find Elsa more Ace then a lesbian and personally I think her ending up with anybody will ruin it. I find Raya or Moana better fit for Lesbian.
Raya definitely. I see Moana as aroace too
I can’t think of anything particularly valuable to contribute but just wanted to say great video as always
4:27 Thank you for mentioning!