Pocket Hole Screws: STAR vs SQUARE
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2023
- When it comes to pocket hole screws, they are great to use, but I usually have a few that want to cam out, which can be very annoying. So I try to find an alternative to the standard square head screws. And here are the results.
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Matthew 2:10
#pocketholes #woodworking #build - Jak na to + styl
When in the Army years ago there were numerous cover assemblies on our missiles that used Philips bits #3 and #4. These frequently "slipped". The cure for a worn tip or a damaged screw was to dip the tip in a little Comet or Ajax abrasive cleaner or the like. The bits or screws really "bit" after application. The grit in the cleaner bound up the tip with the screw.
Thank you for the great info and for your service
I think the big difference (in my opinion) is the damage from the cam out on the star bit is less detrimental than the square one. Once a square head is cammed out even a bit, it's pretty difficult to get out. It takes lot more damage on star heads.
Also, the drill bit itself is a factor. In my xp, the square drill is far more easy to damage and leads to more cam out than the star bit.
Star & square have spoiled me. Slot & Phillips can be so frustrating.
Slot is just plain stupid nowadays
@@tommytexter4054 Amen
I learned the exact same thing and bought the Milescraft two years ago. I love the star bit and screws and use them whenever possible.
You hit the nail on the head at the beginning: it comes down to technique. Keep the driver as in line with the screw as possible. I rarely have cam out with pocket screws, but I don't use them a ton either.
In my experience, and this is not an absolute, the bits that are provided with screw packs are not always as high quality as "premium" bits from many manufactures. Maybe grab some brand name bits and run the tests with those vs the included bits?
No matter what, when I get the perfect square bit for the screw, I still grind it a bit so it slips farther into the square screw head. I absolutely love my Kreg Jig, but I use Star Head screws everywhere else. Love your videos! This Ryobi Girl has learned a lot from you!
It has been an honor to help you
When I started the video, I paused it to get the name of the star bits because I was CONVINCED you found the pocket hole screw holy grail! I am really surprised at your results. Maybe I'll just use up my square screws and save my money for later. Thanks!
I really wish the outcome would have been better, but sometimes we get surprised.
Good on you for publishing a result that wasn't what you expected.
The MAJOR advantage with the square Robertson's Screwlox™ is that ANYONE with a bench grinder can make a driver from some old busted ( Phillips ? ) driver ( try doing that with Tri-wing™ ! ) .... DAVE™🛑
Square bits are known as "Robertson" bits; and are a Canadian invention. If you can't drive them in straight up, that is rare. I find a good bit won't cam out . Your Star bits in the demo cammed our as much as anything.
Take your time, drop the speed and boom, none of them will cam out
Always enjoy enjoy watching your videos!!
I use an impact driver when driving square head pocket screws and I can't recall ever having a problem with cam-out. Maybe you should do the same experiment but with an impact driver instead of a drill. I suspect that it is not the screw or the bit that is causing cam-out, but the tool.
I have recently had the issue using an impact driver. On 2 different occasions it popped out of the screw and the driver dug into the wood I was working on. It put a nice deep gouge that had to be filled with wood filler. I prefer the torx head much better.
Nice test. However, a true test for the difference between the Robertson (square)and Torx (star) screws would be to do hundreds of screwing tests (for good statistics) as well as to take into account 1. Quality of screw 2. Type of wood 3. Size of head. I would also establish a metric like assign a 1 for no cam out, 2 for a little cam out and 3 for a lot of cam out - each screw test gets assigned one of these metric values. At the end you add up all these metric values and divide by the total number of tests to get the average metric value. The lower the average metric value the better the screw.
Being from the UK we are used to the Philips head screws then when i bought the Kreg Pocket Hole K3 and K4 with the Square heads i did get alot of cam out even though i do love using my pocket hole jig,
i did find some Star head screws and used them on other projects and after using them vs the Philips and Square headed screws, i much prefer the Star head screws. So i'm only going to use the Square head screws for my pockets holes and try and use up my Philips screws elsewhere, but Star head screws are my choice of screw to use if possible.
Stay Safe.
Barry (ENG)
I actually tried that same Milescraft torx bit kit about two months ago because of my continued frustration with the square bit variety from Kreg. I had the same result as you and was a little disappointed because I had heard others rave about them. What I believe is the problem is the quality of the fasteners themselves. When I get cam-out on the Milescraft Torx Screws, I extract them and try another and don't have a problem usually. If you look down in the cavity of the screw where you have cam-out, they seem to have excess metal that is slightly uneven from the production process. This is typical of the quality I find in other Asian-made fasteners which frustrates me to no end!
That is great to know, thank you Michael
I know I'm in the minority, but I've always found square drive screws extremely frustrating; especially when it comes to pocket holes. Maybe I've just been using bad bits compared to my philips and torx bits, but I frequently get my square bits to stick hard in the screw head. Granted, I'm usually driving pocket holes during cabinet installs, so I'm trying to drive with my non dominant hand and contorted into really uncomfortable positions.
Don't get me wrong, I've cammed out more philips head screws than I can count, but I've never had a philips driver get stuck in the screw head.
I have experienced very little cam out in my hardware store star bits. It's weird to watch you have so much compared to what I experience.
I think a lot has to do with the coating on the screws, if the bit sits in the screw cleanly you get a good drive but if the coating is uneven in the head of the screw, then the bit doesn't sit evenly and cams out.
I completely agree
Torx bits are very easy to sbeak. The screw heads are too. Unless you buy some super quality ones. While withe the square, it just works, no matter what!
They are called Torx, not star. The problem with Torx is, if you have to remove it, it has to seat in all the way. If not, it might strip the teeth out. Easy to do with cheap screws. The square bit is called a Robertson.
It's interesting that Milescraft claims that the star drive pocket screws provides less cam out than "slotted or philips" screws but does not mention them being better than square drive. Maybe they know something? 🙂
Would there be a difference using an impact instead of a drill to drive in the screws? I work in a cabinet shop and we use the square head screws for everything. The main difference is that we only use impacts and never a drill for putting in the screws.
I will have to test that, thank you
Great video! I had to remove screws from all the walls of a cargo trailer to remodel. I don't think they were star or square. But it was awful. My son would have to get some and use pliers. Probably cheap screws. Thanks. I was a union carpenter. I love your videos.
The screws weren't straight or Phillips either.
That was an interesting experience, thank you for sharing
Your test only did the straight alignment. Try the slight angle & see if results are same. Might find the star are superior in those cases .
I’m weird I love torque bits for automotive but as an electrician I cuss them on job sites lol. Don’t know why I just prefer Phillips when doing electrical as far as building cabinets or furniture I usually use square maybe it’s just and excuse for me to have an assortment of each. As I side note I have a fascination with fasteners and the different properties so that’s probably where some of my habits come from.
The test tests new torx bits compared to your old square drive bits. That torx can drive at an angle in your pocket hole should be enough to avoid using them.
I had similar problems with star construction screws, until I noticed there are different sizes, from different manufacturers. those bits they provide free with the screws. I have to keep the sizes seperate, or carry around both sizes of bits. I strarted my own French Cleet Wall this year.
Great to know thank you.
And that's awesome on your French Cleat wall.
Philipps screws are horrible, they are DESIGNED that the screwdriver levers itself out and spoils the screw. Not only because of the tip, also because the 4 side ridges are sloped.
Slotted screwdrivers have the same issue, the blade tip is also sloped, and the force you need are enourmous to keep it in. I am always on the look to get scredrivers with straight tip side so that you do not need your full weight to keep it in
I have screwdrivers which have two advantages:
One is that the blade goes through to the end so you can use them as chisel without banging the plastic handle to pieces.
At the base of the blade they have a hexagon, so you can twist them with a wrench. So you do not have to combine pushing and turning with one hand.
I find I have more Cam out when using shorter driver bits, which is the opposite of what I thought you would have happen.
Both are excellent. But in your tests the Robertson clearly was a bit better.
Which one stays straight on the bit while aiming?
How about using an impact driver sir 🤔
I bet having to hold the wood in place while driving the screws also contributed. If the work had been securely clamped, you could focus more attention on driving the screws, and would likely have less cam-out.
Try a high quality Torx driver bit instead of the supplied bits
I have been thinking about getting a pocket hole jig. Knowing they have star bit screws makes it interesting. How does the price compare?
The star brand I found was a little bit cheaper than the other major manufacturers.
I wonder why you don't use the fastening torque setting.
Because the average person wouldn't think about it before using a drill.
Will a cheap pocket hole joiner be just fine? Or you get what you pay for here? Thx
I've heard there is a hit and miss when it comes to quality in these jigs. You should definitely look at a few reviews before making the choice.
In Germany some people are using so called Spax - Rückwandschrauben.
I've heard of Spax, but did not know they made a pocket screw.
Now we know, no need to switch to star screws. Thank you
All of Canada already knows that too. Unreal this morbid obsession down there with Robertson.
Looked like your torque may have been too high possibly contributing to the cam out
Maybe
I fixed the Robertson head cam out by grinding the square bit to have sharper edges and a flatter face. Free and easy.
But when my square head screws run out, I’ll check these out. I got loads of star drivers
Torque !!!
Try it horizontally and not vertically
Its a TORX bit not a star
Hate square ⬜ drivers
Torx ⭐ all day long
For structural, outdoor, decks, etc
Maybe only Canadians can use Robertsons properly 😆. One of the reasons for cam out at the end is people not setting their clutch at the proper level. If you are "square on" (I had to ) with the correct size (#2 for most, #1 for smaller only) then you will never cam out a proper Robertson drive screw.
Great to know, thank you Steven
These are Torx bits. Please stop calling them star bits. The square bit is called a Robinson bit.
I do prefer the Torx to any other out there. It is awesome in comparison to say the Phillips or Robinson bit.
They are called Torx, torq, Star depending on the store or manufacturer. I've also seen them called Robertson, square, or just plain 'R' (likely because they don't want to use the name 'Robertson for some reason). Please stop telling people to call them just one of those names. :)
If you're gonna nitpick other people's word choices you should at least get your terms right. There is no such thing as a Robinson bit. It's Robertson, after the Canadian inventor. The Phillips bit was invented after it as an American alternative and gained its ubiquity in the US when its inventor convinced Henry Ford to use them.
@@spaci-1701 you are spot on. I was rushing to post and screwed up. I do know it is Robertson. Thanks for the correction.
@@DaveyRiley I think the more important part is to not worry so much about precise names when it's not necessary. Why gatekeep newbies from joining this hobby because you can't stand an instructor using laymans terms?
The might not be the 'right' names but the nice dude down at home depot is gonna be able to help find them just the same.
Reversing them out for disassembly would be useful!? 👍🏴🇬🇧
Little carnuba wax on your screws, and Bob's your uncle.