Mimir was the only one to advocate for Atreus having somewhat of a normal childhood by trying to convince Kratos that “The Lad wants to make mistakes of his own”. Mimir will always be a homie.
For real I love how mimir is one of Kratos best friends and brother. His relationship with Kratos and Atreus was amazing writing and character development
@@christianhenry4173 wrong the wolves here were rescued as pups 1. The same way kratos was in hiding for so long they went iff the grid. She was more of a catalysts to the story her character and the particulars of her death are not neccecary. 2. They obviousky were friends and they made her a weapon theres also the fact she was part of a resistance
@@christianhenry4173 They weren't Faye's pets. They were rescued by Kratos and Atrues as a puppies from the raiders who primarily eat wolves as their source of food. You don't always need to show eveything as a cinematic, Brok and Sindri mentioned in the first game that they deeply regret creating Mjolnir and giving it to Thor that's why they created the Leviathan Axe as a weapon that can hold against Mjolnir. Faye was creating a resistance group in the Svartalfheim with Durlin, that's when they probably gave her the axe.
Anyone notice how the way Kratos' death is depicted in the prophecy (being held by Atreus while his soul leaves his body) is exactly how Odin met his demise
Also, the image in the first game showed someone who looked vaguely like Kratos, but was not marked like in Ragnarok. One could take this as a sign that which father, be it his biological father or "the all-father" would die was undetermined when that portrait was made.
I really do love the post game funeral for Brok. Where kratos calls him a friend, little moments like that is what make the game even better for me. Like the whole side story with the whale
@@isaiahw9436 I thought that Atreus didn't go to the funeral out of respect for Sindri, who probably wouldn't want the one he blames there. Something like that. Brok's soul didn't go back to the lightwell, it was obliterated. He won't care from where Atreus pays him respect/grieves. Sindri is still very much alive and suffering and considering that compassion is in Atreus nature more than respect and discipline and honor and all that, it just made sense to me that Atreus chose to try and not make it worse for Sindri who made it very clear he will neither forgive nor forget any time soon.
Let's add how Mimir on that very moment finally got the right answer to Brok's riddle, makes you feel more bad about how Sindri feels... "What gets bigger the more you take away? A hole"
The reveal of the answer to Brok’s riddle being a hole when symbolically there is a giant hole in all of them now that he’s dead, especially Sindri, was beautiful and tragic and I genuinely got teary eyed
After the truce with Freya, and after Loki ran off to Asgard, Kratos and Freya used the wolf-sled to seek out the Norns. With Freya commenting on the fact that Kratos and Atreus neglected them. Stating that the wolves have matted fur and should be better cared for. So the game did at least *slightly* acknowledge their neglect
@@nguyenquangduy9292 you can bring her back there and see her remorse. He's all cared for though atreus sent over birgir to look after him. It further proves the theme of how vengeance can consume you. In normal circumstances Freya deeply cares about nature and animals. Vengeance consumed her heart for a time.
There is a hidden theme in the game I think, and that's not taking our time with those we love for granted. Doing sidequests you can really see this being exhasturbated, especially in Alfheim. You play with Atreus for most of the game until by the end when you part ways. You can do sidequests later, though you are reminded, especially in Alfheim, that Atreus would love to be there with you saving the jellyfish. It's the reason you are pushed to do sidequests because even the characters know that nothing is certain.
I think this is part of the genius of this game - it actually motivates you to do the side quests because what is usually an easily skippable or neglected game mechanic is literally narratively built into the game's thesis. I love it so much.
And if you do that quest right before going to Ragnarok Atreus asks why Kratos is doing all that if not to delay the unavoidable (Ragnarok) to which Mimir replies “didn’t you consider he just wants to spend time with you?”
I can think of a number of catalysts that changed kratos' fate in Ragnarok: -Atreus coming back and embracing kratos -The death of brok and the darkness enveloping sindri's heart -kratos telling Atreus to open his heart to the suffering of others And finally -kratos holstering his weapon instead of finishing thor
Most of the Atreus and Kratos catalysts are connected as well. Starting from their moment in Helheim. It's likely Kratos' promise to listen to Atreus' voice in his head that made him sheathe his weapon and attempt to reason with Thor. In the same vein, the only reason our protagonists were able to escape in the first place is because Kratos trusted Atreus to deal with Garm.
But the issue is... that we don't know what the catalyst is. Why were these events different than the initial prophecy? And this isn't a complaint about plot holes, about the structural justification. It's a complaint of the emotional justification. By the time I finished the game and the credits were rolling, I realised Kratos was still alive. Playing the games finale, I had no idea that that fight with Thor was supposed to be when he died, and that such a fate was averted. And despite all of the finales successes, I still felt an anti-climax, that something was still missing. I went searching for answers behind boss battles and exploration. But by 100% I still had gained no answers to suggest what was the reason Kratos averted his fate, and what that said about the games thesis on prophecy and the ability to change one's nature. My best explanation is that Kratos realises he's falling back into his old ways, regrets killing Baldur, and therefore deescalates his fight with Thor. He saves his own life by not trying to kill another. Very much an echoing of the first games finale, finally breaking the cycle for himself. But the issue is... I don't know why this didn't happen in the initial prophecy. How was this a change of his nature? How do we know that any of the things that you listed weren't in the original timeline? The prophecy is so deliberately vague and lacking in details, that we have no way to meaningfully distinguish between it and the actual events. I think that Ragnarok is a very rewarding game to replay, to re-contextualise nuances with hindsight. And overall, the inability to predict what will occur makes the act of playing the game very immersive and engaging. But I think that the finale does a poor job of conveying information to the player in a way that can be properly interpreted. You can only have these theories of the game in hindsight, because those thoughts failed to be prompted initially.
@@turbonerdo6838 Oh, I can answer that easy. The catalyst was when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart to other people's suffering, not close it like he had told him in the previous game. There are things that made this more likely to happen, like the Helheim conversation, but that choice is specifically what changes the prophecy because that's when Kratos officially solidifies his character growth. That's when Kratos changes from wanting vengeance for Brok's death to wanting justice for it. I can even tell you how things would've gone down if Kratos hadn't done that. Ragnarok would've plowed through the wall, potentially killing Skjöldr. Since Sif was close enough to save Skjoldr she probably would've been in close enough proximity to be attacked by Ragnarok as well. This would've taken out or slowed down her, meaning she would've been unable to convince Thrud to stand down and turn against Odin. Since Atreus would still be following Kratos' advice of closing his heart, he would've been forced to fight and kill Thrud, delaying his arrival to help Kratos against Odin. Because Kratos doesn't become "better" in this timeline, he and Thor fight to the death. Thor either becomes enraged by his daughter's death, or distracts Kratos long enough for Odin to get a sneak attack in. Either way, Kratos is fatally wounded. Thor would most likely die from Jormungandr's venom imbued in Kratos' Leviathan Axe, but he holds out long enough for Kratos to die first. Atreus arrives to see his dad dying, he uses the marble to save his soul, and the prophecy is fulfilled. Because Ragnarok isn't slowed down in this universe, and everybody would probably be preoccupied fighting Odin, I expect pretty much everyone going down with Asgard except maybe Loki, since he could escape with Angrboda+Fenrir's help, and Sindri since he can use the Realm between Realms to escape. The Norse Realm falls to chaos with almost all of the gods being dead much like GoW 3. The cycle continues with a broken/hardened Loki.
@@Birthday888 "The catalyst was when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart to other people's suffering, not close it like he had told him in the previous game" But that is Atreus learning a lesson, not Kratos. "Opening his heart" isn't a philosophy which affects Kratos's decision not to kill Thor. It's about seeing himself in Thor, and being capable of relating to his connection with his daughter. "For the sake of our children". Kratos isn't emotionally detached in this game, he is capable of analysing other's emotional states. The reason he kills Heimdall is because Heimdall refuses his act of mercy, so the lesson that he must learn is how to convince others towards peace. That ties into him learning what mistakes he made in killing Baldur, that he should not feel the need to control everything, that he should surrender choice to others when it is their right (which ties into Atreus saying "inaction is also a choice" at the beginning of the game). Kratos says that line, not because it's something he's learnt recently. He says that line in reaction to Atreus's apathy, a sense of dread that his son is being corrupted by war as he feared. Also, that therefore doesn't mean the catalyst is Kratos's. It's Freya's dream. Because that's the moment that idea is planted in his mind. But it can't be that Freya's actions cause the change, because her actions are literally pre-determined, decided before her death. The dream is only a flashback of a real event, the words she said occurred a decade ago. That doesn't change how Ragnarok will play out. That's also the thematic issue of using this phrase as the basis of change. Because the retcon of the words coming from Freya rather than Kratos, recontextualises the initial event. Rather than "close you heart" being Kratos's Spartan wisdom at the very beginning of his journey with an estranged son, it is instead a conscious objection and ignorance of Freya's wishes. Freya told him to open his heart, she died, and then Kratos told her no. Even though they're travelling to the mountain for her wishes, he still holds back and does not fully commit. You can view this as grief affecting Kratos's decision making, but the fact it takes him until Ragnarok to change his parenting philosophy says a lot to refute that. "Ragnarok would've plowed through the wall, potentially killing Skjöldr." Wasn't Freyr already fighting against Ragnarok by this point? "Since Sif was close enough to save Skjoldr she probably would've been in close enough proximity to be attacked by Ragnarok. This would've taken out or slowed down her" This reads less like a logical consequence of events, and more like fan fiction. There's a lot of unstated and unwarranted assumptions. Could this have happened? Sure, in the sense that the writers can make anything happen if they want to. But is this what the game makes you think would've happened otherwise? Of course not. "Since Atreus would still be following Kratos' advice of closing his heart, he would've been forced to fight and kill Thrud" No. One speech is not the difference between Atreus killing his friend or not. He doesn't have to follow Kratos's orders, he's a teenager. He would've fought to save himself, but he had no reason to be vengeful towards Thrud, he would've fought till she was unconscious.
Kratos did have a personal growth in Ragnarok. Wasn't as major as 2018 but it's still there. Kratos trusted Freya with his past and was vulnerable in front of her, called Brok his friend and gave him the honour to bless the spear, he thanks Sindri when he gets missing items even tried to comfort him at Brok's funeral, he gets lot more emotional and human in this story, gave Heimdall the chance to walk away, gave Thor the chance to undo his mistakes and goddamn my eyes tear up everytime I see him smile.
I feel like all these examples just fit what Brett is saying, This isn't Kratos Growing, this is Kratos showing the results of his growth. One dialoge i think would of helped Brett's case was between Freya and Kratos. "I found Peace On my own, It is my responsibility to make it last." This is what Ragnarok Kratos is. He has Found his peace, but to maintain it, he must act on the lessons he learned in God of war (2018)
Those “cold dogs” are wolves, and if you do the side mission where you destroy the raider camps, it eludes to the wolves actually going out and hunting.
@@hypocriticalgrammarnazi plus they're wolves/wild animals. Built for those types of weather Like some dogs with large amounts of fur, or huskies, are most familiar with
My headcanon with Freyr is just that he is so beloved by elves it was easy to sway them. Dude seemed like he could've encouraged parties or possibly orgies - he was the god of fertility and good-vibes basically. The elves came together through love so uh, yeah -maybe!
@@jullianducut9680 no they didn't. Because each time you go through the world branches to travel across realms it automatically revives Kratos health, and it avoids screen time of loading to hint that your moving at a higher velocity of time travel to move across realms unlike tyrs temple which is a runic time machine
There’s actually in game lore that supports how easily Freyr got the light and dark elves to work together. They all absolutely love him, apparently he was the first person to appear in their lands, coming out of the light and ever since they trust him so much that for a time there was peace between both elf races. The once reason there was peace was cause they trusted him, not each other. The second he left their land to go to Freya’s wedding was when they started fighting again. He’s super important to them
@@Rikirie oh shit. That's gotta be a dlc quest kratos had to do to pacify and rebuild like he's now role as the allfather, rebuild the Norse pantheon with all in total harmony
@@Rikirie After I finished the game, I went to Alfheim for my first plat. The elves were gone. Flat out, just gone. Freya notices this and it turns out it's because their in mourning for both Freyr and their lost people. Kratos states that because they fought side by side during Ragnarok, they won't forget that and can maybe rebuild. Someday anyway.
I also suspect that there is something in his godly nature that really resonates with the elves and gives him some sway over them. It would explain why peace ended so quickly after he left, all gods are unique.
I'd like to say that the reason Odin is so against changing his nature is because his whole goal is to know everything, ultimate knowledge and he has likely spent centuries gathering prophecies and insight for what's ahead and his world view is so shallow that if something were to make those prophecies null and void that his centuries would have been wasted and that idea horrifies him so he does everything in his power to hold everyone to the script
Go back and play the game or watch it. Because the mask that he wanted atreus to unlock its secrets relates to the twilight realm that athena lived in which has higher existence of knowledge and wisdom
hey, now that you mention it, that reminds me of what Odin said about Heimdall to Atreus "...he can see through people but sometimes he just forget how to think." or something along those lines. Isn't it kind of ironic that Odin himself is all-knowing, master of manipulation, and smarter than pretty much anyone still fails to follow his own statement of Heimdall of forgetting how to think?
@@mystomachhurt9312 Not only unfair, but beneath him. Mortals, and even the rest of the gods, were just tolerable as long as they were useful. Why change his nature or his obsession to satisfy or help someone else? He's lived hundreds of lifetimes, been there, done that, and hasn't met anyone worthy of being treated as an equal. He wasn't scared of anyone because as long as they were broken in some way he could control them or destroy them.
I love the themes of prophecy and fate in Ragnarok. It feels like it blends the personal scale for Kratos and all the bad choices he’s made, and the grand scale of apocalypse and magic that the Norse world is filled with
@@alwaysangry2232 Yeah, that, I love. The Greek prophecy stories make it clear that no one profits from prophecy. There's no advantage to seeing your fate. Quite the opposite, it drives everyone mad. But this game managed to offer a way to cope with prophecy, not by trying to outwit it or change it, but to just be the best person you can be despite it. Prophecy tells you what happens to you, but it doesn't tell you who you are. Only you can do that.
I JUST NOW REALIZED THE TRUE MEANING OF WHAT SINDRI SAID When he says "That's what comes next" it was a final 'fuck you' to odin's endless need to know what happens to him after he dies, and by smashing the orb sindri sent odin off to go find his answers the hard way Now that I interpreted it that way that moment hits so much harder
It leaves me to wonder if that crack in the universe Odin was obsessed with was a crack in the marble, and if what he saw when he looked in it was Sindri scowling at him from outside, and his whole immortal life took place in the split second before Sindri smashed him.
@@northernalpine4350 I don't know about satisfying. I think the other point the game is making is that sticking it to bastards is not substitute for healing. I think us action genre fans put a lot more stock in the idea of beating an SOB than deserves a beating. Odin needed to be stopped, and he certainly deserved what Sindri did, but it's clear Sindri gained little from it. There was no closure, no resolution. These days, I find those kinds of triumphs a tad hollow.
The folktale about the scorpion and the frog was a nice touch, considering its either the first or one of the first stories kratos tells atreus in the first game
Sadly it's completely false about the nature of the scorpion in that scorpions won't necessarily sting you even when you pick them up, just ask an antomaligist about scorpions or a video about them them you'll see how stupid the story is
With this change of nature, I feel that with Sindri as well is an amazing example of it. In his early dialouge with Atreus when they were trying to find Freya, his remarks and quips, at least in my opinion, hint or at the very least foreshadow the change he goes through at the end, no matter how short. Second, I also adore how fate was used in Ragnorok. It was not like in the old God Of War games, where basically sheer fucking force was used to overcome a desitny, rather how in GOW4 Kratos talks about fate is not predetermined, a point him and Odin align on. But in the Norse mythology, the nature of fate is the prophecies as you said, so be it avoidance or willingness would lead to the same outcome. If Kratos attempted to avoid Heimdall to prevent Ragnorok, I have no doubt in my mind that the prick would've killed Atreus. Then we would see the god he once was. Also I saw a thing on twitter, someone saying that they miss the savage young Kratos, saying this one has gotten weaker. Just because he has spared people, does not mean he is any weaker. Its just that the choice to killing a person, god or mortal, with lives and others attached to them (lovingly or not) are not his to make. He is not a God Killer. He is just a God, trying to live as a man. ALSO LOVED THE VID
He technically is weaker tho, but not in the way that some people are talking. There's a dialogue where Kratos mentions that he lost most of his magical abilities because he destroyed his world (and the weapons he had previously too). He's still REALLY strong i really dont understand how people just go like "nah he's so weak now 💀"
@@NominalInterest Oh yea i know that, i was mainly focusing on how the people that makes those coments treat strenght specifically. So yes you're 100% right, Kratos now is way more experienced and smarter now
I played previous God of War before the Norse saga, and I will say that the current Kratos are way stronger than his younger self. The most easiest way for me to explain is that his Spartan Rage in the norse saga it's just a glimpse on how strong young Kratos are. In 2018 and Ragnarok he barely use his Spartan Rage unless it is necessary, but the young Kratos are basically in his Spartan Rage all the time throughout the journey from GoW 2 and 3, but in the Norse saga he defeated enemies without relying on those rage all the time. So it's easy to say that older Kratos are way stronger than young Kratos, because he can hold back his rage and he can defeat his enemies without overly dependent on his rage.
As much as the ending felt a little rushed, the execution of the main beats were still excellent. When Atreus decided to sleep in Kratos’s tent, when Kratos encouraged his Atreus to keep his heart open, when Kratos accepts that his son is going to forge his own path with Angroboda, all of those moments were executed as close to perfectly as any piece of media can get. The growth Kratos let’s himself go through for the love of his son is the emotional core of the game and I adore it.
I feel like the wording on some parts could have been improved though, such as "closing" and "opening" your heart to matters don't quite refer to the same thing. Closing your heart to emotions is to not let them overwhelm you, so you can focus on performing well in high stress situations, it doesn't mean you don't care for the safety of others. The final dream sequence with Fey kind of explains what she meant by this, that you have to care for the world for it to care for you, among other things, so you could technically apply both teachings. It's also kind of sad how they made Atreus even more emotionally vulnerable than in 2018, to the point where he can't concentrate in the middle of Ragnarok, the biggest battle with the most high-stakes (instead of before the battle) (and Kratos seems to be taking some time off in that sequence as well for some reason).
@@necrago context matters. In that context, Kratos meant that the goal is more important than the safety of strangers/beings/animals etc since he's used to war and casualties cant be prevented. But Atreus and Fey changed that perspective.
I disagree it was rushed. The whole first game and half of this shows Odin is pretty much at fault for everyone's suffering. Ofc the realms would unite like they did.
@@necrago I disagree - I think the point is that he *can* open his heart to pain while under stress. he even says that he performs best under chaos after he comes back from asgard. by opening his heart, he was able to communicate with thrud and help her see his side. and he was able to feel enough rage for sindri to transform and save him, instead of giving in to sindri's aggression and caring less about him. and Kratos helped Thor redeem himself at the end by opening his heart to Thor's pain and communicating to him
Someone needs to make a video about how Odin is one of the most realistic and terrifying depictions of a genuinely skillful manipulator. I've seen a lot of people compare him to Tony Soprano, but more than anything he reminded me of my grandmother and my father. Every sentence he said made me want to wrap my hands around his throat, because I know what he's doing. Every moment he praises Atreus for doing something he wishes he could do. Every time he vacillates between praise and condemnation and back to praise in the same sentence. Every time he says something that seems reasonable and even-handed on the surface, but always serves his own ends. Every time he takes someone's side or instigates an argument with just a turn of praise or even an appropriately-placed word.
For some reason, everytime he would forgive Atreus for a really big mistake/setback (like freeing garm) it would make my skin scrawl. Ive definitely had moments in my life when I would never be sure if the unpredictable/harmful people in my life will lash out or quietly forgive.
The fact that when I played as Atreus in that asgard part, even I started to think that Odin isn't a liar and we may get to see both sides coming to a truce! But fuck I was also fooled
7:54 On Brokk and Nature vs form : it should be mentioned that the line "it is the nature, not the form, of a thing that matters" is actually spoken by Brokk on the way to this version of the Lady of the Lake. He mentions it in regards to dwarf magic, when he captures "the sound of howling wind". The fact that Kratos re-uses this line, and understood it well enough to throw it back at its creator, makes it all the more powerful for Brokk, and more convincing. 13:53 About the Norns : listening carefully, the sentence the Norns use to guide Kratos' anger towards Heimdall is: "Heimdal intends to kill Atreus" - not that he WILL kill Atreus... I could be argued that they set the confrontation up... 18:13 On Surtr & Sinmara subverting prophecy: I would actually disagree... The point was that they don't both have to be "destroyed" to trigger Ragnarok, Surtr finds an alternative. But listening to Sinmara's lamentation after the end of the game, I would argue that, despite being alive, she is pretty much destroyed as well... Prophecy fulfilled, but not it the most literal sense.
I would like to add, Kratos did go through personal growth, showing compassion and empathy, as shown when fenrir died, he did not care about Atreus' grief, he simply said "it's time to train" which the growth is shown with the moments like Brok and Freya, and when he tells Atreus to "Open his heart" near the end of the game.
I think that was more of a growth of him learning to EXPRESS the compassion and empathy he already had, when he said "it's time to train" it was his attempt to comfort Atreus in his moment of grief, since training is his idea of dealing with "big emotions".
He did grow but not in the way you think. He absolutely cared about Atreus' grief, more than he let off. When you look for him and you enter the back of the house into the training area (which was where the Baldur fight happened), dialogue between Kratos and Mimir triggers. Kratos thought he could've been training because he told him to and when Mimir asked why he'd tell him to do that, Kratos replies "He was grieving.." to which Mimir replies with "Oh Kratos, I know you're trying." He did care about Atreus' grief he just didn't know how best to help him cope with it. He thought it would've benefitted Atreus to close his heart to grief and the pain of others but the growth he gets come the end of the game is that that is not who his son is, and opening his heart to the suffering of others is what defines him and makes him a good person.
@@gracecalis5421 that is completely fair. I didn't get that dialogue in my playthrough. Then I suppose it's just learning to express it and help people deal with their emotions.
@@gracecalis5421 I like that Kratos' reflex after Fenrir dies is to train - Atreus doesn't understand it, as it's not his coping mechanism, it's Kratos'. Then, after Brok dies, we see Atreus' coping mechanism is hunting. Probably because it brought good memories of Faye (and maybe even the last game's moments with Kratos). Kratos at that point already understood that wasn't the way to go. His metaphor of a "wounded animal" that has to "stop the bleeding" was really cool. You have to talk about your feelings, and seeing that coming from Kratos is such development. Open your heart to it indeed.
I really love the charactier arc of Sindri. In the end he is a completely different person. He wears no gloves anymore and is no longer afraid of dirt.
I know it's probably a very unpopular opinion but I love what they did with him, for personal reasons. I do hope he finds himself in a better headspace in the future ofc, but his anger felt justified and cathartic. As someone who's always been everyone's Sindri, the one who's always expected to be of service, take all the effort and sacrifice without getting anything in return I'm very satisfied he got to say f* u to everyone (as I recently did) even if that particular situatuon whick broken him wasn't directly caused by neglegence on the protagonists part.
I would argue too that Atreus had a hand in changing fate when it came to Thor. He looked at the man who would kill his father and chose empathy, a big contrast to when he killed his son for merely insulting his mother. Thor was only receptive to Kratos in that last battle because "Loki" laid the groundwork. "Had me believing things could change" is what Thor said. Some of that must have stuck.
RIght. Atreus's low point in the first game was the result of Kratos's particular method of nurturing. You want your kid to close his heart? Wish granted.
7:50 the elevator emerging out of the water as Brok blesses the weapon, FANTASTIC visual story telling, the scene literally brings him down to the depths then raises him back out of it
5:25-I really liked this section where Atreus met Angrboda. He has never had any friends that were his age, his peers. It was one of the best things that could happen to him!
I think you really hit the nail on the head with the exception of one thing, and that's the idea that Kratos is done growing and/or doesn't grow much in this game. Kratos in Ragnarok has, in my eyes, the most meaningful changes to his character in the entire God of War franchise. And that change is *acceptance.* Kratos is a man who has never known introspection, who cannot dwell on the things he feels and is compelled to act upon them. And as a Spartan, he is trained from childhood to view violence as a first course of action, and survival to be the prime directive. The Greek saga has him wracked with guilt, pain and self-hatred, desperate to end his nightmares and doing anything and everything he can to do so... except, he never had the right tool for the job, and he was only able to realize when it was too late. God of War 2018 is about Kratos running away from who he was. With the exception of Faye, nobody knows his past, what he's done, who he is. He wants to forget all of that himself. He doesn't want to be "Kratos, the God of War." He wants to be "Atreus's father." The struggle in this game is Kratos learning that, once again, he has made the wrong choice. Running away doesn't solve anything. Come Ragnarok, everyone knows about Kratos's past. His reputation precedes him with almost every new character he meets. And everyone convinces themselves that that's how he will always be. Because Kratos kills Baldur in the previous game, initiating Ragnarok, many assume that he's in the Nine Realms to do what he did to Greece. Kratos's mission in this game is to prove them all wrong, but he can't do that by pretending to be anyone other than Kratos. *A LOT* of in-game conversations during the course of the game have Kratos opening up--not just about the events of previous games, but about Greek history and culture. He's slowly learning that there's something meaningful in the world he walked away from, and that it's a disservice to pretend it was never his. He admits a love for poetry, we learn he can play the lyre, he defends Greek oral tradition when Mimir criticizes it. He's open about the gods he killed and the ruin he caused, but he's also willing tell Freya about Calliope and Deimos, traumas that he has never openly addressed or shared. When the Draupnir spear is forged, he openly tells Brok that the spear is the first weapon a Spartan learns, with the spear itself suddenly becoming a deeper metaphor for Kratos's past: reborn with new purpose, better than before. And then Brok's blessing becomes just as much for Kratos as it is for himself: "May this weapon *strike true.* May it be *wielded with wisdom.* May it be *put down when its job is done.* " These are all small moments in a very big game, but together they represent a deep, powerful shift in Kratos's perception of self. Ragnarok isn't about him making up for his mistakes, it's not about penance for past sins. It's about accepting what cannot be changed, and using those experiences to forge something new. "Being better" doesn't mean anything if you were never bad. The future doesn't exist without the past. Ragnarok is the story of Kratos finally putting his demons to bed... the right way. It's a subtle part of the storyline (understandably trying to accommodate fans who started with 2018), but for me it was easily the most impactful, bringing Kratos and the story itself back to its roots in a way that both respected what came before while committing to the new direction.
I could see how Brok’s blessing held some regret in making Mjolnir when him and Sindri wanted to make it big. But it also applies to Kratos is choosing to wield a weapon with accuracy, a sense of justice, and knowing when to stop.
16:40 To be fair, they encourage you to do some sidequests after you recruit Surtr. If you do as the game intends, there is probably enough time for Freyr and Freya to get their recruiting done.
These reviews are quite possibly some of the most comprehensive and articulate I have ever seen on the platform; The way you are able to deconstruct and explain the nuances of this story is absolutely fascinating. You deserve far more subscribers, I can easily see this channel gaining quite the following. Keep up the good work sir!
On top of your first criticism of the game....my biggest one was that badass looking fur cloak Kratos was wearing just vanishes, never to return again :(
I would assume they had to remove the coat because they couldn’t get it to work with the blades and axe being stowed on Kratos’s back. It’s a shame, but stuff like that is difficult to program.
One thing great about GOW:R is how much the other characters get humanised. Your point about the fight with Thor being so defeated instead of glorious was great. The part where Thrud talks to her alcoholic dad, when Freya overcomes her past grief, I think they were there to show how Ragnarok isn't going to be the thing that defines them, it's their nature. That's why they don't give a happy end to Sindri, war is just defined by sorrow.
I have so much to say about this game, no tl;dr or anything. Just long ass comment lol: I really enjoyed how destiny is defined in this story and how it starts off that Kratos would be the scorpion to be sure his son was safe until their promise to one another/his final vision with Faye when she tells him to go against his nature to close his heart and to instead open it since "to suffer much is to love much". Which is ironic because Kratos suffered a lot in his life but it was from the love he had for his original family. He loved them so dearly he destroyed his entire realm for them. This same nature can be applied with Atreus. He will do, or not do, what he has to for Atreus to be safe. The part with Surtr was short but really interesting. When he refused to kill his love saying "I would not put her in danger anymore than you would him [Atreus]". Kratos then back off entirely because it was true, he'd let the nine realms burn if at the end Atreus was still alive. Except, because Atreus is alive his compassionate nature is not a hindrance but creates Kratos to change. I think there's a few hints throughout the game with Atreus where we see characters question his nature he was inheriting from his father. When Atreus learns to control the wolf and Agraboda asks him what it feels like he says he feels like he lacks control and she asks him "do you need it?" While control would be ideal she tells him to go with the flow. Odin teaches Atreus not to close his heart to fear but channel it and make it work for him (from his own nature, the fear of his own death leads him to the spiral of a self-fulfilling prophecy). However, this works for Atreus compared to in the beginning of the game when he curses out of fear Kratos tells him to be calm and think but that approach conflicts with his nature and their conflict between each other were their natures. 4:55 This is one of the many reasons Ironwood with Agraboda is one of my favorite parts in the game (narratively, I watched it online since I do not have a ps5). It's temporary reprieve from the bleakness of the game's darker, heavy, looming themes. Atreus finds Agraboda, someone his age and is the opposite of those he's surrounded by and the harshness of fumblwinter. Ironwood is warm, inviting and filled with life and animals. It's not a paradise but it's a strong contrast. Then there's Agraboda herself, someone who provides Atreus with answers he seeks about the future and his heritage from his mother's side. It's also grounded, with enemies still a threat and Gyla's presence and harshness returning the narrative back to it's original tone, kind of a wake up call from the "dream". They help each other come to terms with their trauma from family in some way. They compliment each other so well, would love to see a game with them completing his search for the giants. Also, can I add that when Atreus says "I'm tired of feeling alone" hit me so hard. It shows how much his environment was effecting him. He'd rather take a risk befriending people than close them off and be alone. I think Ragnorok was not just about prophecy and it's weight on those under it but also emotional intelligence/growth. Like how Kratos had to come to terms with his past Atreus did too, haunted by his actions in the first game (his entry into Ironwood showing that his behavior still haunts him even if subconsciously). It was about Ateus' journey too (also expressed in gameplay with his own segements). He grows up becoming his own person, outside his father's shadow and reaching independence. (Kratos no longer calling him "boy", while a funny meme, I'm glad it wasn't in Ragnorok except a couple of times. It's absence shows that Kratos acknowledged Atreus' growing up and was working to treat him as such). Atreus quoting Kratos at the end of the game solidified that for me. It showed the positive influence Kratos had on his son despite their rough beginnings and that they are both okay together or separate. Their development was really good and 100% earned moment at the end. I was so angry and sad Thor died lol I wanted him to recover like Kratos but it's GoW and I know not every character gets that chance. I also do agree that the the pacing was a little too quick by the end. I think to be apart of those missions a delay would've been nice or like you said make it a story spanning over two games but how to accomplish that I'd have no clue. Even with the rushed end it was still good. I also think Kratos did grow a lot in this game. One example is his relationship with Ratatoskr. First meeting, Kratos barely grunts at him. When he does speak to Ratatoskr it came out rude and menacing. By the end of the quests/game Kratos started calling Ratatoskr by his name and consoled him in his time of weakness when he doubted himself (outside his control but he took it hard none the less). Kratos also started to speak more and open up about his past via dialogue with Freya and Mimir. I noticed there were a lot of moments Kratos is in a state where he's almost in a daze/overwhelmed trying to come to terms with emotions he's feeling because he gradually is opening his heart more and more. I saw people disliking his growth but I loved it. Kratos is such a compelling character and more so when he's healing. The end of the game when he sees the mural he's overcome with a future he never foresaw for himself, people revering him. I think with his long time suffering over a span of games he deserves it and I really hope there's one more game at least. Seems like they are setting up that much with Atreus' journey and Sindri's spiral downward.
I dont know if its some revolutionary discovery or not, but the cave entrance kratos sits at is shaped like a bear, the same entrance his son enters in the same scene. While not some huge plotpoint, it forshadows atreus being turned into the boss Bjorn, the bear
I wish I could direct people to this video. It explains very well what I have been trying to explain to people that say Kratos wasn't to blame because he was trying to do something good, and that he had to kill Baldur to save Freya. "Intent does not matter, only consequences." Kratos killed Baldur and started Ragnarok. Period. He could have walked away and let him kill Freya. He could have found another way to stop him, but that wasn't his nature. Now he has to deal with the consequences. In the end he changed his nature and changed his "fate". Sometimes bad things happen, even though we have good intentions, and we have to accept the blame instead of placing it on others. To be better you have to realize this, accept your flaws, and change yourself to be who you want to be, not who "fate" says that you are.
It's a shame what happened to Thor. Kratos really got to him, because in a way they were peers that could relate. Both gods having violent,destructive paths that have been changed by their children (although apparently Thor and Sif were both awful to theirs sons Magni and Modi) they tried to be different with Thrud. Thor was still weighed down by all the trauma of Odin and just when he had enough confidence to break away the bastard kills him. I could imagine Thor would've been a very powerful ally had he been able to live and had his redemption - but alas that's not what we got to see. I absolutely loved the dramatic turn around with Sindri, though my heart breaks for him. Amazing video and analysis, thank you for breaking down everything so well. Really hope we get more installments from this franchise with Atreus.. or.. is he gonna go by Loki now?
Odin's parentage of Thor is how he raised his sons as Mimir puts it. He was harsh on them cause thats what he knew growing up. Could they have been better, Hell yeah, but its kinda hard to do so when Odin was controlling everything and would have hurt his grandsons worse if he caught Thor slacking. both he and Sif know Odin is to blame for their needless deaths, but they can;t do much given Odin's place and power. Also i think Thor has some guilt for the massacres he's done by Odin's orders, war is one thing, but innocents is another. Its part to be for his alcohol addiction as he just tries to not dwell on the stuff he's done.
I may be the only one but if you look at the mural where Kratos sees he will be worshiped as a god there is a big bulky guy on the right side behind him. I know only one big bulky guy in the norse realms. Maybe there is a way to restore Thor, he did just kind of vanquish instead of his body staying like other gods wich i thought was a bit wierd. There must be something more to that
@@cherryrook8684 There's a spoilercast interview with the director Eric Williams which he did explain that mural. Kratos being worshipped part is actually painted over the original mural painting where Kratos is killed by Thor.
I loved the story for this game. So many of the choices around GoW '18's story and gameplay were to make it a more personal, character-driven journey that we all had to wonder how it could possibly work with something as grand and impersonal as Ragnarok. Somehow, it largely managed to hold that balance. It worked well with that sense of dread you mentioned to the point where you felt like you had to watch every character's step. Every small victory carries through. Every mistake feels catastrophic. It really is one of the stronger recent examples of gameplay enhancing storytelling, not just getting you from one plot beat to the next.
I love how character driven this story is. Pretty much every single plot point happens because of characters driving it forward instead of the situation itself.
I love that you bring up the fact that the end feels rushed. I felt the exact same way. Within the last hour of the game, they’re all of a sudden able to broker a peace treaty among the elves and mobilize armies out of the enemies that have been trying to kill us all along. Meanwhile, it took more than three games to scale mount Olympus to beat up Zeus. I get that the developers want to move on from norheim, and practically speaking it makes sense that they do so. A story that takes more than ten years to unfold struggles more to keep consumers interested. But you’re right; it would have been cooler if the second game was titled “Fimbulwinter” and was all about confronting Thor. And then the third game would be titled Ragnarok and would be all about confronting Odin, perhaps with Thor’s help. Obviously that’s a huge ask: these games take forever to make
This game went through a few delays because the Kratos Actor injured his back. Without that setback, it would most likely take only 3 years to develop. So 2018 2021 2024 could have been realistic for a trilogy, especially with all the groundwork laid by 2018. For the consumer thats only 6 years aslong as no hiccups happened (and they did). But that's still a while. And if they want to cover Aztec,Celtic,Shinto,Egyptian, Or any other pantheon. 3 games each would take an unreasonable amount of time. In interviews they said when 2018 ended the first thing talked about was 2 or 3 games. That's probably why it felt rushed. They didn't make 2018 knowing it would only be 2. But I'm pretty sure the next pantheon they know for a fact it's only getting 2 games, so we won't have the same problem
Great video! I recently came across your last gow video and I really enjoyed how you articulated yourself and interpreted the story in a way I’ve never real thought about. I also agree that it seems like they were cramming a little much near the third act, but it was still an enjoyable ride imo. Keep up the great work, you got yourself a new subscriber!!
22:23 i never noticed the slight shock from Freya. I wonder if a small, small part of her had remnants of feelings for Odin. He made her fall in love with her enough to share ancient cultural secrets and they had a family together, even if it was broken. maybe i’m reading too much into it.
I didn't notice it when playing but saw it at the end of your video: I love the switched positions of Odin laying in Atreus' arms with Kratos standing over them in contrast to the vision in the prophecy, with Kratos laying there
About the dogs. It is addressed in the GoW 2018 and has a brief mention in Ragnorok, time moves differently when you are in other realms, it can move slower or faster. So to be fair, not that much time could have passed between Kratos leaving and coming back.
Excellent psychological breakdown (0 pun intended) of the story and its characters. I love this version of Thor whom, all along, was reluctant to do his father's bidding. Thanks.
I think the preparation for ragnorok was great. Freyr was already told and said to be a much loved and worshipped figure in the elf world, which is why how he easily convinced them to join the fight and make peace. Then minor being able to convince hel to lend a hand also makes sense. 1. Boar guy said that hel would only talk to someone who’s already which mimir is. 2. Mimir has already been shown and displayed as an intelligent individual who has a silver tongue. 3. He made a really good deal with hel, she gets to retire from her job and dick around. How the fuck could he fail when the person he wants to convince is already way ahead of with the idea.
But it still felt rushed, because it all happens within an hour. I know time works differently in other realms, but the game should of at least acknowledged that a bit more. Especially considering we spend 3 hours collecting fruit and paint and riding a Yak only to spend an hour going from the walls of Asgard to Odins yard. Not to mention the Hel Armt doesn’t show up, neither do the dwarfs… which I know is explained in-game why, but that doesn’t make it any less lame.
Me, personally, the third half of the game (when brok dies) doesn't feel rushed to me. It just added more urgency. After his death, it felt like they were vulnerable. Like any time Odin can attack and overwhelm them. They needed the edge and needed it fast.
Greyr easily uniting the elves is basically guaranteed as you find out his role to the elves throughout all your visits alfheim, he is the great uniter and both light and dark elves view him as such, and whenever he shows up they know they must work together for some purpose, doubly so as he is the only person they ever saw emerge from the lake of souls back before their split.
What I find most interesting about Kratos's 'close your heart to their suffering' in the the previous game is that, while it first glance seems to be solid advice, it backfires when Atreaus murders Modi (after the reveal that his own father nearly beat him to death) and how he treats Sindri (still dealing with falling out with Brok) after his newly revealed godhood. 'Open your heart to their suffering' is Kratos accepting that he made a mistake.
@@islandboy9381 Freyr’s death is a notable exception! I think he represented the opposite. His character become a symbol of inaction and he had to become active in the fight. He could have survived Ragnarok by not participating and potentially ruling Vanaheim, but we had already seen he was ineffective at this and he also knew it. He chose to die an honorable death instead. If he were to survive Ragnarok it would mean he hadn’t changed. -But also we never see a body.
@@1983horizons1 Well Freyr dying there is accurate to the actual norse mythology telling of Ragnarok where it says he and giant sutr are fated to destroy eachother, so in a poetic way he fulfilled a prophecy but it's because he willingly chose to do so to truly protect not because he tried to hide away from it like he would do earlier.
Everyone hated the part in ironwood and you are the first person that heard say that they enjoyed it I loved it for the same reason you did Atreus finally got to be a kid love this game
I love how the characters mirror each other. Freya and Kratos, Thor and Atreus, Thor and Kratos, Sindri and Kratos, Odin and Kratos,. The story really merits so much reading and re reading to get all the nuances.
It's a very interesting concept that the Norns, rather than making stuff up on a whim and saying it's prophecy, take a moment to look at someone's psychology and then piecing together what they observed into a prophecy
5:40 That was a unprecedented first across all media. Because, apparently, fulfilling your growth and just remaining a stable good person, is a cardinal sin in story telling .... I was SO relieved to see what ragnaroc did. It was like a breath of fresh, cold, air
You are extraordinarily underated. I've only watched your two recent god of war videos but in quality, understanding, and overall theme I think they are better than most huge CZcamsrs. I hope this video and your previous god of war video blow up and you gain some traction and recognition because you most certainly and definitely deserve it.
Man I’m still torn about Thors death. It’s a good moment for Odins villainy. Showing that this sociopath is so gone. That he can callously murder his own son in the blink of an eye at the first sign of disobedience and than have the gall to look him in the eye and say that he “didn’t want this” it’s despicable. But… I don’t know if it’s a moment good enough to equal what’s lost. I personally am not a huge fan of punctuating a major character redefining moment with the death of said character. It’s annoying when you establish that a character can change, can find a new path, can redirect, has more to do, but you kill them before they can interact with that potential. It feels cheap. And you can’t say that it was too little too late. Kratos, at his worst, was a worse person than Thor. And Kratos earned his redemption. And offered up the chance to return the kindness that Faye gave him. I dunno man. I don’t like writing character deaths this way
His death to me was equally shocking and irritating. I’m not opposed to Thor’s death, I’m just opposed to it happening so suddenly. What I would’ve liked to happen was Thor had a change of heart but was torn and the initial siege fails. The gang falls back to Midgard and Thor arrives trying to stop their war then eventually agreeing to fight alongside then dying when trying to fight Odin. To me, it would’ve made Thor’s death more impactful and would’ve gave us more interactions between him and Kratos
I look at it like this: That type of killing off a character is really, really hard to pull off but it can be done. I think that GOWR did it well for Thor because he and Kratos are the same, men did best when they killed. Kratos understood that and offered Thor change, but Thor had been in Odin's lap far too long. Once Thor was finally able to look up and do something for himself, Odin as too close by and too swift to let such a spark grow to be a threat. It's tragic because maybe Thor could have done great things with Kratos, but Odin denied him that because a good dog obeys and never bites back.
Thor, for the entire game, was a tool in Odin's hands. It may not have looked good for Thor to be redeemed through death, but it does support the theme of Odin being unable to change, and thereby unable to defy fate, by slaying Thor once he attempted to escape his father's leash
I dunno. I don't think you can really come up with a situation where Odin doesn't kill Thor after seeing him start to move away from being his tool/weapon. Because the entire point of Kratos choosing to try and reason with Thor instead of straight up killing him is that it only happens after Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart and become better, and then Kratos follows his son's example as per their promise in Helheim. So the redeeming has to happen at Ragnarock. And Thor is only going to listen to Kratos when he can't actually keep fighting. At that point, it would be somewhat unrealistic if Thor could suddenly fight off Odin right after being beaten by Kratos, and it would be out of character for Odin not to at least try to kill Thor.
That's what we call a "tragedy", and its not a cheap ploy by the devs, it leaves a hole in your emotions for a while because Thor was robbed of his chance to finally become a better man after centuries of slaughter, and the chance to repair the family he broke time and time again.
When i beat odin, and watched atreus defeat him in an alternate way than killing him, i immediately thought of Aang defeating Ozai from avatar. (Lets just ignore sindri's choice). Defeating him by taking away his ability to be a threat, not by taking his life. Defeating Odin by essentially trapping him in a state of permanent defenselessness. Atreus knew that the only people who could free his soul was other giants... and why would the sworn enemies of odin, the few who remained, ever choose to do just that? Brilliant ending.
About the dogs being neglected. I had similar thoughts but ultimately decided that they were not neglected. Heres why: They are not dogs. They are wolves. They are not domesticated puppies. They are wolves Kratos and Atreus found while out hunting I believe. Wild wolves. These things can feed themselves. Used to being outside. Plus Kratos left the campfire going so theyd be warm. Its totally fine everythings ok
6:04 while it's not so much helping the character to change, another instance can be seen in Svartelheim at the begining of the game; where we help Mimir undo some of the damage he caused in his past. It was entirely with side missions from the whale to the smoke towers, but it's all there and you get great stuff between the two characters.
Thor reminds me a lot of my Dad. He struggled with abuse from his mother and step-father for most of his life, to a point where he was alienated from them and even moved to an entirely different country (England to Canada) to start a new life. He suffered from alcoholism and often made incredibly bad mistakes while under the influence that affected my family. He made it clear that he was trying to change, and we all knew he loved us more than anything in the world, but the way he was raised and his addiction made it hard. One day, around three years ago, we pushed him a little too far after he fucked up and he ended up leaving to live somewhere else for a few months. Before we could even contact him to see how he was doing and try to keep helping him, he died from medical complications. Completely alone. I legitimately cried when I watched Thor die, because I wanted so badly to see somebody who resembled my dad to improve unlike he could. I suppose the universe always has other plans though.
My literal only complaint is that the story for this game should have been 2. The start of the story felt well paced at the start, but once Brok dies, the story jumped into 6th gear and so much happens so fast. If you don’t stop mid combat and absorb what’s happening, it all becomes a blur and then it’s over, you beat Odin. To be fair, I have absolutely no idea where the writers would split this story leading to Ragnarök without the second game feeling inevitably unfulfilling. Still an absolutely beautiful game! The side characters and Atreus getting real screen time and growth is very welcome considering GoW 2018 was Kratos’ story of growth
I felt that the 2nd game could have ended with a Thor fight (not necessarily his death, but a fight) and then the 3rd game could be completely about the battle and the aftermath of it.
Just gotta pop in and say this video, among the others that decorate your channel, are just beautiful. you have such strong command of your words and the ways you weave them to pose a new perspective on a story I thought I couldnt love any more than I already do... thank you fatbrett.
Fantastic video and you hit all the big marks, but one thing I think is worth notifying is Kratos lingering wish to "live as a man" as he had told atreus in the first game. We can see a very big reason behind Kratos' opposition to fate was his desire to just be left alone, not get involved and to use his godly powers if not necessary. The whole game, kratos was adamant that the entire god-of-war lifestyle would be put behind him and he just focus on living with his son, his final decision to lead everybody inspired/foreshadowed by Faye's lesson to him in his dream, that Kratos doesn't have to leave the god of war completely in the past. But that the godly powers that once caused so much suffering, can be used to ACTIVELY bring righteousness and justice to the lives of everybody around him. It makes his ultimate decision to be of peace and justice, and his final prophecy that much more satisfying to see. Phenomenal game and a truly legendary character.
Just found this channel recently and I'm loving the content. I have to say I love your use of zelda music in the back of your commentarys. It's really getting me in the mood to replay skyward sword or twilight princess. Great touch!
Thank you, I got really lost in the themes of the story and the motivation of the characters cuz it felt like things were just bouncing back and forth but this explained it a lot better to me. I just finished the game and I was looking for something exactly like this I'll probably replay it now that I have a better understanding of what it was all actually about.
I love the idea that Kratos' active drive to make better decisions and help others grow beyond the same trauma and mistakes that he has made in the past directly foreshadows his evolution where he discovers the path to his future of becoming a god that is loved similar to how he and Atreus admired Tyr in the first game. Also I love that the side plots exist as a replacement for Kratos' character growth by showing Kratos' influence on the world around him as it seems like that's the normal continuation of his character to be the one who teaches instead of the one who is taught.
Your videos are some of the best character essays on CZcams. Such a great game and I hope you get a shoutout from Santa Monica for the wonderful work you’ve done.
I don't think I really fell in love with this game till the Angrboda sequence. It was such a relief, and playing as Atreus was such a breath of fresh air after the heaviness of Kratos. It was like the tension held through the entire first game was finally released. It was so affecting, it changed the context of the entire rest of the game, and even recontextualized the entire previous game for me. That game, despite its story, still seemed overly in love with Kratos' worst traits, his terseness with his son, his dour silence, all those behaviors that are attributed to bad-asses that make them terrible fathers. It depressed me no end when I saw how it affected Atreus, directly leading to him behaving exactly like the kind of god Kratos hates. And yet, Kratos never took responsibility for leading his son down this path of heartlessness. I was happy to see Kratos open up a little, but it was nothing to how he opens up in this game. What made God of War: Ragnarok so moving was how much Kratos learned from Atreus. It was Atreus who learned to trust his own strength, his own wisdom, his own goodness. And from that example, Kratos learned to be better. That story completed the story of the first game in a way I never would have imaged, and made for a magnificent larger story.
Dude, I loved all of your God of War videos. So thoughtful, so intelligent, ans occasionally broken up by a funny ass jab. Hearing you speak over the background music from a certain Skyward so-and-so, has helped make for multiple listens. I look forward to the next meaty story-rich game you get to analyze. Or, whatever comes next... I'll be there
I left a comment on the previous video. I think you are right in that Kratos doesn't grow as much as he shows that he has grown. A sub plot that I feel didn't get as much attention was Kratos's growth as a parent. At the beginning of the previous game, he is hesitant to even touch his son to comfort him. And by the end of this one, he holds long and tight before letting him go to find his destiny. There is even some hidden dialogue you can listen to between Kratos and Mimir if you go to Atreus's room after the main story. Kratos worries if he'd done enough to prepare his son.
That scene where Kratos urges Brok to bless the Spear is one of the most beautiful moments I've ever experienced; I cried like a baby in front of several people watching me play, and I regret nothing. That dumb Spear means so much to me, and so does Brok.
Really love how God:R confronts relapsing on your journey to grow. How one thing can set you back so many steps but it's okay as long as you are willing to get back on your path.
You even feel bad for Thor and his wife about him losing his two sons for god's sake. When she tells Thor the stories of how they cared for them when they were children it really hits hard.
I'd argue that Kratos had a lot of growth in this game too. Not only did he struggle with his instinct to fall back into his God of War self when Atreus first goes to Asgard, but when he learns that Heimdall is going to kill Atreus, he falls back into his "God Killer" self. He tries to be better by sparing Heimdall, but it ends up with him brutalling killing Heimadll while Mimir tries to stop him from falling back into those patterns. Ragnarok feels like a turning point for Kratos to me - a test, almost, to see if he can continue to change and grow and maintain the path of being better that he started in God of War 2018. It would've been so easy for him to turn back into the God Killer he once was, and during the Ragnarok fight, he almost does. It's when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart, not close it, that Kratos truly solidifies his change. I believe that moment (and of course the ones leading up to it and Kratos trusting Atreus) is what changes Kratos' fate. When he decides to be better, to save the midgardians, to try and negotiate with Thor.
That blessing part hit so hard especially with him referencing the importance on the nature of things like brok said as he was trying to explain Dwarven magic.
Not enough people realize how massive of a character Faye is in these 2 games. Her simple actions completely change the fate of all 9 realms and virtually every single character's fate/ending.
16:05 i really like that you didn't have to play every recruitment needed for ragnarök to happen. i was genuinely worried that there is another filler section happening here which pads out the game even more. It was a good decision to recruit the armies off-camera and start with the big fight right away.
The key phrase used throughout these last two games is essentially the main theme of the new kratos and I think is the reason i want more wise man kratos in future games. The phrase "we must be better". Its all about not being who you were, but choosing to become a better version.
This is one subtle touch I don't see people talk about a lot, but Kratos DID die fighting Thor. So the Norns weren't even wrong. Atreus doesn't see it, but he legitimately does die, and I have always thought that actually does fulfill the prophecy. Like that first death is a loophole to keep the prophecy true but allow for Kratos to make that developed, intelligent choice.
Mimir was the only one to advocate for Atreus having somewhat of a normal childhood by trying to convince Kratos that “The Lad wants to make mistakes of his own”. Mimir will always be a homie.
For real I love how mimir is one of Kratos best friends and brother. His relationship with Kratos and Atreus was amazing writing and character development
@@Poppyrae All the characters just feel natural in the game tbh. Like convo's I could actually see happening
I love how Mimir makes up for some of Kratos' shortcomings as a father. They're the perfect parenting duo.
@@matti.8465 Sometimes it's needed, and they both grew to respect one another pretty damn well
He's the smartest man alive, smarter than Al the dead ones too actually.
To be fair about the doggos, there’s an entire side quest that addresses Kratos misuse of the dogs and he learns to show them compassion.
Yeah that was so heartwaeming to watch, it happens after you destroy last of raid camps in midgard.
He didnt 100% finish the game.
next time he should actually do the side quests before making the video.
@@christianhenry4173 wrong the wolves here were rescued as pups
1. The same way kratos was in hiding for so long they went iff the grid. She was more of a catalysts to the story her character and the particulars of her death are not neccecary.
2. They obviousky were friends and they made her a weapon theres also the fact she was part of a resistance
@@christianhenry4173 They weren't Faye's pets. They were rescued by Kratos and Atrues as a puppies from the raiders who primarily eat wolves as their source of food.
You don't always need to show eveything as a cinematic, Brok and Sindri mentioned in the first game that they deeply regret creating Mjolnir and giving it to Thor that's why they created the Leviathan Axe as a weapon that can hold against Mjolnir. Faye was creating a resistance group in the Svartalfheim with Durlin, that's when they probably gave her the axe.
Anyone notice how the way Kratos' death is depicted in the prophecy (being held by Atreus while his soul leaves his body) is exactly how Odin met his demise
I totally missed this. Thanks for pointing it out 👍!
Also, the image in the first game showed someone who looked vaguely like Kratos, but was not marked like in Ragnarok. One could take this as a sign that which father, be it his biological father or "the all-father" would die was undetermined when that portrait was made.
@@theendersmirk5851 to add to that, when Odin meets you after Draupnir is made he says 'that boy of ours'.
And it was A god of war who blew the horn
That’s because it’s actually Odin and not kratos the mark on his face is the eye patch strap
I really do love the post game funeral for Brok. Where kratos calls him a friend, little moments like that is what make the game even better for me. Like the whole side story with the whale
I thought that was sick too! But it was weird Atreus didn't pop up for that. Seemed like a strange oversight or maybe they'll address next game idk
@@isaiahw9436 I thought that Atreus didn't go to the funeral out of respect for Sindri, who probably wouldn't want the one he blames there. Something like that. Brok's soul didn't go back to the lightwell, it was obliterated. He won't care from where Atreus pays him respect/grieves. Sindri is still very much alive and suffering and considering that compassion is in Atreus nature more than respect and discipline and honor and all that, it just made sense to me that Atreus chose to try and not make it worse for Sindri who made it very clear he will neither forgive nor forget any time soon.
Let's add how Mimir on that very moment finally got the right answer to Brok's riddle, makes you feel more bad about how Sindri feels... "What gets bigger the more you take away? A hole"
@@APcGameryeah that was so unexpected and hit me right in my feels man 🥲
The reveal of the answer to Brok’s riddle being a hole when symbolically there is a giant hole in all of them now that he’s dead, especially Sindri, was beautiful and tragic and I genuinely got teary eyed
After the truce with Freya, and after Loki ran off to Asgard, Kratos and Freya used the wolf-sled to seek out the Norns. With Freya commenting on the fact that Kratos and Atreus neglected them. Stating that the wolves have matted fur and should be better cared for. So the game did at least *slightly* acknowledge their neglect
Freya is a hiprocrite, she left charlie in the cold too
@@nguyenquangduy9292 I got legit angry at Freya for that. Wolves can care for themselves at least, but Charlie has to stay put!
Nah, she meant they don't do that generally
@@nguyenquangduy9292 you can bring her back there and see her remorse. He's all cared for though atreus sent over birgir to look after him. It further proves the theme of how vengeance can consume you. In normal circumstances Freya deeply cares about nature and animals. Vengeance consumed her heart for a time.
@@nguyenquangduy9292 I was thinking the same too.
There is a hidden theme in the game I think, and that's not taking our time with those we love for granted. Doing sidequests you can really see this being exhasturbated, especially in Alfheim. You play with Atreus for most of the game until by the end when you part ways. You can do sidequests later, though you are reminded, especially in Alfheim, that Atreus would love to be there with you saving the jellyfish. It's the reason you are pushed to do sidequests because even the characters know that nothing is certain.
I think this is part of the genius of this game - it actually motivates you to do the side quests because what is usually an easily skippable or neglected game mechanic is literally narratively built into the game's thesis. I love it so much.
"exhasturbated"
Exacerbated.
You can free the jellyfish with Atreus though, can't you? I remember doing the quest with him in my playthrough
@@jetstreamsam99 you can, that is the point. You can miss out on it if you decide to not do it before the end of the game
And if you do that quest right before going to Ragnarok Atreus asks why Kratos is doing all that if not to delay the unavoidable (Ragnarok) to which Mimir replies “didn’t you consider he just wants to spend time with you?”
I can think of a number of catalysts that changed kratos' fate in Ragnarok:
-Atreus coming back and embracing kratos
-The death of brok and the darkness enveloping sindri's heart
-kratos telling Atreus to open his heart to the suffering of others
And finally
-kratos holstering his weapon instead of finishing thor
Most of the Atreus and Kratos catalysts are connected as well. Starting from their moment in Helheim. It's likely Kratos' promise to listen to Atreus' voice in his head that made him sheathe his weapon and attempt to reason with Thor. In the same vein, the only reason our protagonists were able to escape in the first place is because Kratos trusted Atreus to deal with Garm.
as the director of Ragnarok put it, Sindri is like a giving tree, all thats left of him is a stump.
But the issue is... that we don't know what the catalyst is. Why were these events different than the initial prophecy? And this isn't a complaint about plot holes, about the structural justification. It's a complaint of the emotional justification.
By the time I finished the game and the credits were rolling, I realised Kratos was still alive. Playing the games finale, I had no idea that that fight with Thor was supposed to be when he died, and that such a fate was averted. And despite all of the finales successes, I still felt an anti-climax, that something was still missing. I went searching for answers behind boss battles and exploration. But by 100% I still had gained no answers to suggest what was the reason Kratos averted his fate, and what that said about the games thesis on prophecy and the ability to change one's nature.
My best explanation is that Kratos realises he's falling back into his old ways, regrets killing Baldur, and therefore deescalates his fight with Thor. He saves his own life by not trying to kill another. Very much an echoing of the first games finale, finally breaking the cycle for himself.
But the issue is... I don't know why this didn't happen in the initial prophecy. How was this a change of his nature? How do we know that any of the things that you listed weren't in the original timeline? The prophecy is so deliberately vague and lacking in details, that we have no way to meaningfully distinguish between it and the actual events.
I think that Ragnarok is a very rewarding game to replay, to re-contextualise nuances with hindsight. And overall, the inability to predict what will occur makes the act of playing the game very immersive and engaging. But I think that the finale does a poor job of conveying information to the player in a way that can be properly interpreted. You can only have these theories of the game in hindsight, because those thoughts failed to be prompted initially.
@@turbonerdo6838 Oh, I can answer that easy. The catalyst was when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart to other people's suffering, not close it like he had told him in the previous game. There are things that made this more likely to happen, like the Helheim conversation, but that choice is specifically what changes the prophecy because that's when Kratos officially solidifies his character growth. That's when Kratos changes from wanting vengeance for Brok's death to wanting justice for it.
I can even tell you how things would've gone down if Kratos hadn't done that. Ragnarok would've plowed through the wall, potentially killing Skjöldr. Since Sif was close enough to save Skjoldr she probably would've been in close enough proximity to be attacked by Ragnarok as well. This would've taken out or slowed down her, meaning she would've been unable to convince Thrud to stand down and turn against Odin. Since Atreus would still be following Kratos' advice of closing his heart, he would've been forced to fight and kill Thrud, delaying his arrival to help Kratos against Odin.
Because Kratos doesn't become "better" in this timeline, he and Thor fight to the death. Thor either becomes enraged by his daughter's death, or distracts Kratos long enough for Odin to get a sneak attack in. Either way, Kratos is fatally wounded. Thor would most likely die from Jormungandr's venom imbued in Kratos' Leviathan Axe, but he holds out long enough for Kratos to die first. Atreus arrives to see his dad dying, he uses the marble to save his soul, and the prophecy is fulfilled.
Because Ragnarok isn't slowed down in this universe, and everybody would probably be preoccupied fighting Odin, I expect pretty much everyone going down with Asgard except maybe Loki, since he could escape with Angrboda+Fenrir's help, and Sindri since he can use the Realm between Realms to escape. The Norse Realm falls to chaos with almost all of the gods being dead much like GoW 3. The cycle continues with a broken/hardened Loki.
@@Birthday888 "The catalyst was when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart to other people's suffering, not close it like he had told him in the previous game"
But that is Atreus learning a lesson, not Kratos. "Opening his heart" isn't a philosophy which affects Kratos's decision not to kill Thor. It's about seeing himself in Thor, and being capable of relating to his connection with his daughter. "For the sake of our children". Kratos isn't emotionally detached in this game, he is capable of analysing other's emotional states. The reason he kills Heimdall is because Heimdall refuses his act of mercy, so the lesson that he must learn is how to convince others towards peace. That ties into him learning what mistakes he made in killing Baldur, that he should not feel the need to control everything, that he should surrender choice to others when it is their right (which ties into Atreus saying "inaction is also a choice" at the beginning of the game). Kratos says that line, not because it's something he's learnt recently. He says that line in reaction to Atreus's apathy, a sense of dread that his son is being corrupted by war as he feared.
Also, that therefore doesn't mean the catalyst is Kratos's. It's Freya's dream. Because that's the moment that idea is planted in his mind. But it can't be that Freya's actions cause the change, because her actions are literally pre-determined, decided before her death. The dream is only a flashback of a real event, the words she said occurred a decade ago. That doesn't change how Ragnarok will play out.
That's also the thematic issue of using this phrase as the basis of change. Because the retcon of the words coming from Freya rather than Kratos, recontextualises the initial event. Rather than "close you heart" being Kratos's Spartan wisdom at the very beginning of his journey with an estranged son, it is instead a conscious objection and ignorance of Freya's wishes. Freya told him to open his heart, she died, and then Kratos told her no. Even though they're travelling to the mountain for her wishes, he still holds back and does not fully commit. You can view this as grief affecting Kratos's decision making, but the fact it takes him until Ragnarok to change his parenting philosophy says a lot to refute that.
"Ragnarok would've plowed through the wall, potentially killing Skjöldr."
Wasn't Freyr already fighting against Ragnarok by this point?
"Since Sif was close enough to save Skjoldr she probably would've been in close enough proximity to be attacked by Ragnarok. This would've taken out or slowed down her"
This reads less like a logical consequence of events, and more like fan fiction. There's a lot of unstated and unwarranted assumptions. Could this have happened? Sure, in the sense that the writers can make anything happen if they want to. But is this what the game makes you think would've happened otherwise? Of course not.
"Since Atreus would still be following Kratos' advice of closing his heart, he would've been forced to fight and kill Thrud"
No. One speech is not the difference between Atreus killing his friend or not. He doesn't have to follow Kratos's orders, he's a teenager. He would've fought to save himself, but he had no reason to be vengeful towards Thrud, he would've fought till she was unconscious.
Kratos did have a personal growth in Ragnarok. Wasn't as major as 2018 but it's still there. Kratos trusted Freya with his past and was vulnerable in front of her, called Brok his friend and gave him the honour to bless the spear, he thanks Sindri when he gets missing items even tried to comfort him at Brok's funeral, he gets lot more emotional and human in this story, gave Heimdall the chance to walk away, gave Thor the chance to undo his mistakes and goddamn my eyes tear up everytime I see him smile.
Also
It’s Kratos becoming more open, actually doing good for the sake of all
He even laughs if you go to Jotunheim after finishing the main story
I feel like all these examples just fit what Brett is saying, This isn't Kratos Growing, this is Kratos showing the results of his growth.
One dialoge i think would of helped Brett's case was between Freya and Kratos.
"I found Peace On my own, It is my responsibility to make it last."
This is what Ragnarok Kratos is. He has Found his peace, but to maintain it, he must act on the lessons he learned in God of war (2018)
Those “cold dogs” are wolves, and if you do the side mission where you destroy the raider camps, it eludes to the wolves actually going out and hunting.
people act like the wolves were chained up in the snow, but they were free to chill by the fire or go out for a nice stroll
@@hypocriticalgrammarnazi plus they're wolves/wild animals. Built for those types of weather
Like some dogs with large amounts of fur, or huskies, are most familiar with
Find it strange that everyone forgets time moves differently across all the realms. A few moments in one realm can be hours and even days in others
My headcanon with Freyr is just that he is so beloved by elves it was easy to sway them. Dude seemed like he could've encouraged parties or possibly orgies - he was the god of fertility and good-vibes basically. The elves came together through love so uh, yeah -maybe!
I think the developers also forgot this from 2018
Spoilers.
Is that why Atreus spending a few hours with agraboda was 2 days to Kratos, but a few hours in Midgard was a night in the world tree's time?
@@jullianducut9680 No, they didn't.
Kratos says Atreus spent two days away when for him it was only a few hours.
@@jullianducut9680 no they didn't. Because each time you go through the world branches to travel across realms it automatically revives Kratos health, and it avoids screen time of loading to hint that your moving at a higher velocity of time travel to move across realms unlike tyrs temple which is a runic time machine
There’s actually in game lore that supports how easily Freyr got the light and dark elves to work together. They all absolutely love him, apparently he was the first person to appear in their lands, coming out of the light and ever since they trust him so much that for a time there was peace between both elf races. The once reason there was peace was cause they trusted him, not each other. The second he left their land to go to Freya’s wedding was when they started fighting again. He’s super important to them
oh....right...GGuess that means they are probably at war again now since he uh...died.
@@Rikirie oh shit. That's gotta be a dlc quest kratos had to do to pacify and rebuild like he's now role as the allfather, rebuild the Norse pantheon with all in total harmony
@@Rikirie Oh yeah I haven’t considered that, we can only hope that they like use his sacrifice to become peaceful again
@@Rikirie After I finished the game, I went to Alfheim for my first plat. The elves were gone. Flat out, just gone.
Freya notices this and it turns out it's because their in mourning for both Freyr and their lost people. Kratos states that because they fought side by side during Ragnarok, they won't forget that and can maybe rebuild. Someday anyway.
I also suspect that there is something in his godly nature that really resonates with the elves and gives him some sway over them.
It would explain why peace ended so quickly after he left, all gods are unique.
I'd like to say that the reason Odin is so against changing his nature is because his whole goal is to know everything, ultimate knowledge and he has likely spent centuries gathering prophecies and insight for what's ahead and his world view is so shallow that if something were to make those prophecies null and void that his centuries would have been wasted and that idea horrifies him so he does everything in his power to hold everyone to the script
Go back and play the game or watch it. Because the mask that he wanted atreus to unlock its secrets relates to the twilight realm that athena lived in which has higher existence of knowledge and wisdom
@@christianhenry4173 Who are you talking to? Because it seems there was another guy that commented here and for some reason he is gone.
hey, now that you mention it, that reminds me of what Odin said about Heimdall to Atreus "...he can see through people but sometimes he just forget how to think." or something along those lines. Isn't it kind of ironic that Odin himself is all-knowing, master of manipulation, and smarter than pretty much anyone still fails to follow his own statement of Heimdall of forgetting how to think?
Odin is trapped in a sunk cost fallacy. In his head he already sacrificed so much that he think its unfair if he let go of his obsession
@@mystomachhurt9312 Not only unfair, but beneath him. Mortals, and even the rest of the gods, were just tolerable as long as they were useful. Why change his nature or his obsession to satisfy or help someone else? He's lived hundreds of lifetimes, been there, done that, and hasn't met anyone worthy of being treated as an equal. He wasn't scared of anyone because as long as they were broken in some way he could control them or destroy them.
I love the themes of prophecy and fate in Ragnarok. It feels like it blends the personal scale for Kratos and all the bad choices he’s made, and the grand scale of apocalypse and magic that the Norse world is filled with
and also shows how to beat the greek tragedy of creating the future one tries to avoid
@@alwaysangry2232 Yeah, that, I love. The Greek prophecy stories make it clear that no one profits from prophecy. There's no advantage to seeing your fate. Quite the opposite, it drives everyone mad. But this game managed to offer a way to cope with prophecy, not by trying to outwit it or change it, but to just be the best person you can be despite it. Prophecy tells you what happens to you, but it doesn't tell you who you are. Only you can do that.
I JUST NOW REALIZED THE TRUE MEANING OF WHAT SINDRI SAID
When he says "That's what comes next" it was a final 'fuck you' to odin's endless need to know what happens to him after he dies, and by smashing the orb sindri sent odin off to go find his answers the hard way
Now that I interpreted it that way that moment hits so much harder
It leaves me to wonder if that crack in the universe Odin was obsessed with was a crack in the marble, and if what he saw when he looked in it was Sindri scowling at him from outside, and his whole immortal life took place in the split second before Sindri smashed him.
that has got to be the most SATISFYING karma for a bastard like odin
@@northernalpine4350 I don't know about satisfying. I think the other point the game is making is that sticking it to bastards is not substitute for healing. I think us action genre fans put a lot more stock in the idea of beating an SOB than deserves a beating. Odin needed to be stopped, and he certainly deserved what Sindri did, but it's clear Sindri gained little from it. There was no closure, no resolution. These days, I find those kinds of triumphs a tad hollow.
The folktale about the scorpion and the frog was a nice touch, considering its either the first or one of the first stories kratos tells atreus in the first game
Sadly it's completely false about the nature of the scorpion in that scorpions won't necessarily sting you even when you pick them up, just ask an antomaligist about scorpions or a video about them them you'll see how stupid the story is
@@zanderwinters4255 something tells me that's not the point
With this change of nature, I feel that with Sindri as well is an amazing example of it. In his early dialouge with Atreus when they were trying to find Freya, his remarks and quips, at least in my opinion, hint or at the very least foreshadow the change he goes through at the end, no matter how short.
Second, I also adore how fate was used in Ragnorok. It was not like in the old God Of War games, where basically sheer fucking force was used to overcome a desitny, rather how in GOW4 Kratos talks about fate is not predetermined, a point him and Odin align on. But in the Norse mythology, the nature of fate is the prophecies as you said, so be it avoidance or willingness would lead to the same outcome. If Kratos attempted to avoid Heimdall to prevent Ragnorok, I have no doubt in my mind that the prick would've killed Atreus. Then we would see the god he once was.
Also I saw a thing on twitter, someone saying that they miss the savage young Kratos, saying this one has gotten weaker. Just because he has spared people, does not mean he is any weaker. Its just that the choice to killing a person, god or mortal, with lives and others attached to them (lovingly or not) are not his to make. He is not a God Killer. He is just a God, trying to live as a man.
ALSO LOVED THE VID
He technically is weaker tho, but not in the way that some people are talking. There's a dialogue where Kratos mentions that he lost most of his magical abilities because he destroyed his world (and the weapons he had previously too). He's still REALLY strong i really dont understand how people just go like "nah he's so weak now 💀"
@@delta9389 weaker in some aspects, much stronger in others. Strength isn't only measured physically, my friend.
@@NominalInterest Oh yea i know that, i was mainly focusing on how the people that makes those coments treat strenght specifically. So yes you're 100% right, Kratos now is way more experienced and smarter now
Weaker? Stronger? Don't matter. This is still Kratos.
I played previous God of War before the Norse saga, and I will say that the current Kratos are way stronger than his younger self.
The most easiest way for me to explain is that his Spartan Rage in the norse saga it's just a glimpse on how strong young Kratos are. In 2018 and Ragnarok he barely use his Spartan Rage unless it is necessary, but the young Kratos are basically in his Spartan Rage all the time throughout the journey from GoW 2 and 3, but in the Norse saga he defeated enemies without relying on those rage all the time.
So it's easy to say that older Kratos are way stronger than young Kratos, because he can hold back his rage and he can defeat his enemies without overly dependent on his rage.
As much as the ending felt a little rushed, the execution of the main beats were still excellent. When Atreus decided to sleep in Kratos’s tent, when Kratos encouraged his Atreus to keep his heart open, when Kratos accepts that his son is going to forge his own path with Angroboda, all of those moments were executed as close to perfectly as any piece of media can get. The growth Kratos let’s himself go through for the love of his son is the emotional core of the game and I adore it.
I feel like the wording on some parts could have been improved though, such as "closing" and "opening" your heart to matters don't quite refer to the same thing. Closing your heart to emotions is to not let them overwhelm you, so you can focus on performing well in high stress situations, it doesn't mean you don't care for the safety of others. The final dream sequence with Fey kind of explains what she meant by this, that you have to care for the world for it to care for you, among other things, so you could technically apply both teachings. It's also kind of sad how they made Atreus even more emotionally vulnerable than in 2018, to the point where he can't concentrate in the middle of Ragnarok, the biggest battle with the most high-stakes (instead of before the battle) (and Kratos seems to be taking some time off in that sequence as well for some reason).
@@necrago context matters. In that context, Kratos meant that the goal is more important than the safety of strangers/beings/animals etc since he's used to war and casualties cant be prevented. But Atreus and Fey changed that perspective.
I disagree it was rushed. The whole first game and half of this shows Odin is pretty much at fault for everyone's suffering.
Ofc the realms would unite like they did.
@@necrago I disagree - I think the point is that he *can* open his heart to pain while under stress. he even says that he performs best under chaos after he comes back from asgard. by opening his heart, he was able to communicate with thrud and help her see his side. and he was able to feel enough rage for sindri to transform and save him, instead of giving in to sindri's aggression and caring less about him. and Kratos helped Thor redeem himself at the end by opening his heart to Thor's pain and communicating to him
Someone needs to make a video about how Odin is one of the most realistic and terrifying depictions of a genuinely skillful manipulator. I've seen a lot of people compare him to Tony Soprano, but more than anything he reminded me of my grandmother and my father. Every sentence he said made me want to wrap my hands around his throat, because I know what he's doing. Every moment he praises Atreus for doing something he wishes he could do. Every time he vacillates between praise and condemnation and back to praise in the same sentence. Every time he says something that seems reasonable and even-handed on the surface, but always serves his own ends. Every time he takes someone's side or instigates an argument with just a turn of praise or even an appropriately-placed word.
For some reason, everytime he would forgive Atreus for a really big mistake/setback (like freeing garm) it would make my skin scrawl. Ive definitely had moments in my life when I would never be sure if the unpredictable/harmful people in my life will lash out or quietly forgive.
I don't know if you've seen it, but yours truly have made one such video. Go watch it, it's great ^^
Richard Schiff nailed it!
The fact that when I played as Atreus in that asgard part, even I started to think that Odin isn't a liar and we may get to see both sides coming to a truce! But fuck I was also fooled
No he isnt
Sindri going from neat freak ocd to covered in blood looking deranged is crazy character development
7:54 On Brokk and Nature vs form : it should be mentioned that the line "it is the nature, not the form, of a thing that matters" is actually spoken by Brokk on the way to this version of the Lady of the Lake. He mentions it in regards to dwarf magic, when he captures "the sound of howling wind". The fact that Kratos re-uses this line, and understood it well enough to throw it back at its creator, makes it all the more powerful for Brokk, and more convincing.
13:53 About the Norns : listening carefully, the sentence the Norns use to guide Kratos' anger towards Heimdall is: "Heimdal intends to kill Atreus" - not that he WILL kill Atreus... I could be argued that they set the confrontation up...
18:13 On Surtr & Sinmara subverting prophecy: I would actually disagree... The point was that they don't both have to be "destroyed" to trigger Ragnarok, Surtr finds an alternative. But listening to Sinmara's lamentation after the end of the game, I would argue that, despite being alive, she is pretty much destroyed as well... Prophecy fulfilled, but not it the most literal sense.
I would like to add, Kratos did go through personal growth, showing compassion and empathy, as shown when fenrir died, he did not care about Atreus' grief, he simply said "it's time to train" which the growth is shown with the moments like Brok and Freya, and when he tells Atreus to "Open his heart" near the end of the game.
I think that was more of a growth of him learning to EXPRESS the compassion and empathy he already had, when he said "it's time to train" it was his attempt to comfort Atreus in his moment of grief, since training is his idea of dealing with "big emotions".
@@marvit_bot well they end up covering that later in the game. It's a distraction rather than facing the problems head-on.
He did grow but not in the way you think. He absolutely cared about Atreus' grief, more than he let off. When you look for him and you enter the back of the house into the training area (which was where the Baldur fight happened), dialogue between Kratos and Mimir triggers. Kratos thought he could've been training because he told him to and when Mimir asked why he'd tell him to do that, Kratos replies "He was grieving.." to which Mimir replies with "Oh Kratos, I know you're trying."
He did care about Atreus' grief he just didn't know how best to help him cope with it. He thought it would've benefitted Atreus to close his heart to grief and the pain of others but the growth he gets come the end of the game is that that is not who his son is, and opening his heart to the suffering of others is what defines him and makes him a good person.
@@gracecalis5421 that is completely fair. I didn't get that dialogue in my playthrough. Then I suppose it's just learning to express it and help people deal with their emotions.
@@gracecalis5421 I like that Kratos' reflex after Fenrir dies is to train - Atreus doesn't understand it, as it's not his coping mechanism, it's Kratos'.
Then, after Brok dies, we see Atreus' coping mechanism is hunting. Probably because it brought good memories of Faye (and maybe even the last game's moments with Kratos). Kratos at that point already understood that wasn't the way to go. His metaphor of a "wounded animal" that has to "stop the bleeding" was really cool. You have to talk about your feelings, and seeing that coming from Kratos is such development. Open your heart to it indeed.
I really love the charactier arc of Sindri. In the end he is a completely different person. He wears no gloves anymore and is no longer afraid of dirt.
I know it's probably a very unpopular opinion but I love what they did with him, for personal reasons. I do hope he finds himself in a better headspace in the future ofc, but his anger felt justified and cathartic. As someone who's always been everyone's Sindri, the one who's always expected to be of service, take all the effort and sacrifice without getting anything in return I'm very satisfied he got to say f* u to everyone (as I recently did) even if that particular situatuon whick broken him wasn't directly caused by neglegence on the protagonists part.
@@hekatebleble4800 i'm so sorry you have gone through that, i hope you've find your zen now
I would argue too that Atreus had a hand in changing fate when it came to Thor. He looked at the man who would kill his father and chose empathy, a big contrast to when he killed his son for merely insulting his mother.
Thor was only receptive to Kratos in that last battle because "Loki" laid the groundwork. "Had me believing things could change" is what Thor said. Some of that must have stuck.
Totally agree. It wasnt just Kratos who changed fate. It was Loki and Kratos actions which changed fate
RIght. Atreus's low point in the first game was the result of Kratos's particular method of nurturing. You want your kid to close his heart? Wish granted.
The scene where Brok blesses the spear is one of the most emotionally moving pieces of art I've experienced in a while
Brok will always be the real MVP. Dude was a savage, told shit how it was - but he was a true comrade at the end of the day.
One could say he put his soul into it…
7:50 the elevator emerging out of the water as Brok blesses the weapon, FANTASTIC visual story telling, the scene literally brings him down to the depths then raises him back out of it
5:25-I really liked this section where Atreus met Angrboda. He has never had any friends that were his age, his peers. It was one of the best things that could happen to him!
I think you really hit the nail on the head with the exception of one thing, and that's the idea that Kratos is done growing and/or doesn't grow much in this game.
Kratos in Ragnarok has, in my eyes, the most meaningful changes to his character in the entire God of War franchise. And that change is *acceptance.*
Kratos is a man who has never known introspection, who cannot dwell on the things he feels and is compelled to act upon them. And as a Spartan, he is trained from childhood to view violence as a first course of action, and survival to be the prime directive. The Greek saga has him wracked with guilt, pain and self-hatred, desperate to end his nightmares and doing anything and everything he can to do so... except, he never had the right tool for the job, and he was only able to realize when it was too late.
God of War 2018 is about Kratos running away from who he was. With the exception of Faye, nobody knows his past, what he's done, who he is. He wants to forget all of that himself. He doesn't want to be "Kratos, the God of War." He wants to be "Atreus's father." The struggle in this game is Kratos learning that, once again, he has made the wrong choice. Running away doesn't solve anything.
Come Ragnarok, everyone knows about Kratos's past. His reputation precedes him with almost every new character he meets. And everyone convinces themselves that that's how he will always be. Because Kratos kills Baldur in the previous game, initiating Ragnarok, many assume that he's in the Nine Realms to do what he did to Greece. Kratos's mission in this game is to prove them all wrong, but he can't do that by pretending to be anyone other than Kratos.
*A LOT* of in-game conversations during the course of the game have Kratos opening up--not just about the events of previous games, but about Greek history and culture. He's slowly learning that there's something meaningful in the world he walked away from, and that it's a disservice to pretend it was never his. He admits a love for poetry, we learn he can play the lyre, he defends Greek oral tradition when Mimir criticizes it. He's open about the gods he killed and the ruin he caused, but he's also willing tell Freya about Calliope and Deimos, traumas that he has never openly addressed or shared. When the Draupnir spear is forged, he openly tells Brok that the spear is the first weapon a Spartan learns, with the spear itself suddenly becoming a deeper metaphor for Kratos's past: reborn with new purpose, better than before. And then Brok's blessing becomes just as much for Kratos as it is for himself: "May this weapon *strike true.* May it be *wielded with wisdom.* May it be *put down when its job is done.* "
These are all small moments in a very big game, but together they represent a deep, powerful shift in Kratos's perception of self. Ragnarok isn't about him making up for his mistakes, it's not about penance for past sins. It's about accepting what cannot be changed, and using those experiences to forge something new.
"Being better" doesn't mean anything if you were never bad. The future doesn't exist without the past. Ragnarok is the story of Kratos finally putting his demons to bed... the right way.
It's a subtle part of the storyline (understandably trying to accommodate fans who started with 2018), but for me it was easily the most impactful, bringing Kratos and the story itself back to its roots in a way that both respected what came before while committing to the new direction.
WOW
Spacing. Paragraphs.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558
You still got the message. It's not like it's riddled with typos or something nonsensical.
I could see how Brok’s blessing held some regret in making Mjolnir when him and Sindri wanted to make it big. But it also applies to Kratos is choosing to wield a weapon with accuracy, a sense of justice, and knowing when to stop.
I love how Sindri came in at the last moment when everyone else pussied out. Because the toughest choices require the strongest wills...
16:40 To be fair, they encourage you to do some sidequests after you recruit Surtr. If you do as the game intends, there is probably enough time for Freyr and Freya to get their recruiting done.
These reviews are quite possibly some of the most comprehensive and articulate I have ever seen on the platform; The way you are able to deconstruct and explain the nuances of this story is absolutely fascinating. You deserve far more subscribers, I can easily see this channel gaining quite the following. Keep up the good work sir!
On top of your first criticism of the game....my biggest one was that badass looking fur cloak Kratos was wearing just vanishes, never to return again :(
That fur did go pretty hard. Honestly though, it hadn't even registered to me that it was gone till I saw your comment, lol.
I would assume they had to remove the coat because they couldn’t get it to work with the blades and axe being stowed on Kratos’s back. It’s a shame, but stuff like that is difficult to program.
Ng+
One thing great about GOW:R is how much the other characters get humanised. Your point about the fight with Thor being so defeated instead of glorious was great.
The part where Thrud talks to her alcoholic dad, when Freya overcomes her past grief, I think they were there to show how Ragnarok isn't going to be the thing that defines them, it's their nature. That's why they don't give a happy end to Sindri, war is just defined by sorrow.
Great analysis. It's also refreshing to see someone who understands Atreus is just a kid doing his best, people always sh!t on him unjustly
Him having brok bless it was a really touching moment. I teared up too.
I have so much to say about this game, no tl;dr or anything. Just long ass comment lol:
I really enjoyed how destiny is defined in this story and how it starts off that Kratos would be the scorpion to be sure his son was safe until their promise to one another/his final vision with Faye when she tells him to go against his nature to close his heart and to instead open it since "to suffer much is to love much". Which is ironic because Kratos suffered a lot in his life but it was from the love he had for his original family. He loved them so dearly he destroyed his entire realm for them. This same nature can be applied with Atreus. He will do, or not do, what he has to for Atreus to be safe. The part with Surtr was short but really interesting. When he refused to kill his love saying "I would not put her in danger anymore than you would him [Atreus]". Kratos then back off entirely because it was true, he'd let the nine realms burn if at the end Atreus was still alive. Except, because Atreus is alive his compassionate nature is not a hindrance but creates Kratos to change. I think there's a few hints throughout the game with Atreus where we see characters question his nature he was inheriting from his father. When Atreus learns to control the wolf and Agraboda asks him what it feels like he says he feels like he lacks control and she asks him "do you need it?" While control would be ideal she tells him to go with the flow. Odin teaches Atreus not to close his heart to fear but channel it and make it work for him (from his own nature, the fear of his own death leads him to the spiral of a self-fulfilling prophecy). However, this works for Atreus compared to in the beginning of the game when he curses out of fear Kratos tells him to be calm and think but that approach conflicts with his nature and their conflict between each other were their natures.
4:55 This is one of the many reasons Ironwood with Agraboda is one of my favorite parts in the game (narratively, I watched it online since I do not have a ps5). It's temporary reprieve from the bleakness of the game's darker, heavy, looming themes. Atreus finds Agraboda, someone his age and is the opposite of those he's surrounded by and the harshness of fumblwinter. Ironwood is warm, inviting and filled with life and animals. It's not a paradise but it's a strong contrast. Then there's Agraboda herself, someone who provides Atreus with answers he seeks about the future and his heritage from his mother's side. It's also grounded, with enemies still a threat and Gyla's presence and harshness returning the narrative back to it's original tone, kind of a wake up call from the "dream". They help each other come to terms with their trauma from family in some way. They compliment each other so well, would love to see a game with them completing his search for the giants.
Also, can I add that when Atreus says "I'm tired of feeling alone" hit me so hard. It shows how much his environment was effecting him. He'd rather take a risk befriending people than close them off and be alone. I think Ragnorok was not just about prophecy and it's weight on those under it but also emotional intelligence/growth. Like how Kratos had to come to terms with his past Atreus did too, haunted by his actions in the first game (his entry into Ironwood showing that his behavior still haunts him even if subconsciously). It was about Ateus' journey too (also expressed in gameplay with his own segements). He grows up becoming his own person, outside his father's shadow and reaching independence. (Kratos no longer calling him "boy", while a funny meme, I'm glad it wasn't in Ragnorok except a couple of times. It's absence shows that Kratos acknowledged Atreus' growing up and was working to treat him as such). Atreus quoting Kratos at the end of the game solidified that for me. It showed the positive influence Kratos had on his son despite their rough beginnings and that they are both okay together or separate. Their development was really good and 100% earned moment at the end.
I was so angry and sad Thor died lol I wanted him to recover like Kratos but it's GoW and I know not every character gets that chance. I also do agree that the the pacing was a little too quick by the end. I think to be apart of those missions a delay would've been nice or like you said make it a story spanning over two games but how to accomplish that I'd have no clue. Even with the rushed end it was still good.
I also think Kratos did grow a lot in this game. One example is his relationship with Ratatoskr. First meeting, Kratos barely grunts at him. When he does speak to Ratatoskr it came out rude and menacing. By the end of the quests/game Kratos started calling Ratatoskr by his name and consoled him in his time of weakness when he doubted himself (outside his control but he took it hard none the less). Kratos also started to speak more and open up about his past via dialogue with Freya and Mimir. I noticed there were a lot of moments Kratos is in a state where he's almost in a daze/overwhelmed trying to come to terms with emotions he's feeling because he gradually is opening his heart more and more. I saw people disliking his growth but I loved it. Kratos is such a compelling character and more so when he's healing. The end of the game when he sees the mural he's overcome with a future he never foresaw for himself, people revering him. I think with his long time suffering over a span of games he deserves it and I really hope there's one more game at least. Seems like they are setting up that much with Atreus' journey and Sindri's spiral downward.
100% agree.
Agreed, great comment
I dont know if its some revolutionary discovery or not, but the cave entrance kratos sits at is shaped like a bear, the same entrance his son enters in the same scene. While not some huge plotpoint, it forshadows atreus being turned into the boss Bjorn, the bear
You're right! I would have never noticed it without your comment 😃👍,!
jesus the foreshadowing in this game and the previous is incredible
I wish I could direct people to this video. It explains very well what I have been trying to explain to people that say Kratos wasn't to blame because he was trying to do something good, and that he had to kill Baldur to save Freya.
"Intent does not matter, only consequences."
Kratos killed Baldur and started Ragnarok. Period. He could have walked away and let him kill Freya. He could have found another way to stop him, but that wasn't his nature. Now he has to deal with the consequences. In the end he changed his nature and changed his "fate".
Sometimes bad things happen, even though we have good intentions, and we have to accept the blame instead of placing it on others. To be better you have to realize this, accept your flaws, and change yourself to be who you want to be, not who "fate" says that you are.
It's a shame what happened to Thor. Kratos really got to him, because in a way they were peers that could relate. Both gods having violent,destructive paths that have been changed by their children (although apparently Thor and Sif were both awful to theirs sons Magni and Modi) they tried to be different with Thrud. Thor was still weighed down by all the trauma of Odin and just when he had enough confidence to break away the bastard kills him.
I could imagine Thor would've been a very powerful ally had he been able to live and had his redemption - but alas that's not what we got to see. I absolutely loved the dramatic turn around with Sindri, though my heart breaks for him.
Amazing video and analysis, thank you for breaking down everything so well. Really hope we get more installments from this franchise with Atreus.. or.. is he gonna go by Loki now?
Odin's parentage of Thor is how he raised his sons as Mimir puts it. He was harsh on them cause thats what he knew growing up. Could they have been better, Hell yeah, but its kinda hard to do so when Odin was controlling everything and would have hurt his grandsons worse if he caught Thor slacking. both he and Sif know Odin is to blame for their needless deaths, but they can;t do much given Odin's place and power.
Also i think Thor has some guilt for the massacres he's done by Odin's orders, war is one thing, but innocents is another. Its part to be for his alcohol addiction as he just tries to not dwell on the stuff he's done.
@@TheSSBBfan666 yep, it’s mentioned that’s why Thor and Sif tried to be better parents to Thrûd
I may be the only one but if you look at the mural where Kratos sees he will be worshiped as a god there is a big bulky guy on the right side behind him. I know only one big bulky guy in the norse realms. Maybe there is a way to restore Thor, he did just kind of vanquish instead of his body staying like other gods wich i thought was a bit wierd. There must be something more to that
@@cherryrook8684 There's a spoilercast interview with the director Eric Williams which he did explain that mural. Kratos being worshipped part is actually painted over the original mural painting where Kratos is killed by Thor.
@@avikgaming5422 I see, thanks for the explanation
The story of brok dying and Sindri saving him was told back in 2016 with “the lost pages of Norse myth”. Great listen
I loved the story for this game. So many of the choices around GoW '18's story and gameplay were to make it a more personal, character-driven journey that we all had to wonder how it could possibly work with something as grand and impersonal as Ragnarok. Somehow, it largely managed to hold that balance. It worked well with that sense of dread you mentioned to the point where you felt like you had to watch every character's step. Every small victory carries through. Every mistake feels catastrophic. It really is one of the stronger recent examples of gameplay enhancing storytelling, not just getting you from one plot beat to the next.
I love how character driven this story is. Pretty much every single plot point happens because of characters driving it forward instead of the situation itself.
I love that you bring up the fact that the end feels rushed. I felt the exact same way.
Within the last hour of the game, they’re all of a sudden able to broker a peace treaty among the elves and mobilize armies out of the enemies that have been trying to kill us all along.
Meanwhile, it took more than three games to scale mount Olympus to beat up Zeus.
I get that the developers want to move on from norheim, and practically speaking it makes sense that they do so. A story that takes more than ten years to unfold struggles more to keep consumers interested.
But you’re right; it would have been cooler if the second game was titled “Fimbulwinter” and was all about confronting Thor.
And then the third game would be titled Ragnarok and would be all about confronting Odin, perhaps with Thor’s help.
Obviously that’s a huge ask: these games take forever to make
Those three greek games took max 5 years…. Meaning it would take another 15 years for this series, there was a reason they didnt do that….
This game went through a few delays because the Kratos Actor injured his back. Without that setback, it would most likely take only 3 years to develop.
So
2018
2021
2024
could have been realistic for a trilogy, especially with all the groundwork laid by 2018. For the consumer thats only 6 years aslong as no hiccups happened (and they did). But that's still a while. And if they want to cover
Aztec,Celtic,Shinto,Egyptian, Or any other pantheon. 3 games each would take an unreasonable amount of time.
In interviews they said when 2018 ended the first thing talked about was 2 or 3 games. That's probably why it felt rushed. They didn't make 2018 knowing it would only be 2.
But I'm pretty sure the next pantheon they know for a fact it's only getting 2 games, so we won't have the same problem
Freyr is the reason the elves united quickly.
It'd be dope if there were 3 games, and thor was the final boss of the second, and you got mjolnir for the third
@@Lanceolson4586 covid also put a dent in that time as well
Great video! I recently came across your last gow video and I really enjoyed how you articulated yourself and interpreted the story in a way I’ve never real thought about. I also agree that it seems like they were cramming a little much near the third act, but it was still an enjoyable ride imo. Keep up the great work, you got yourself a new subscriber!!
Thank you!
No game has EVER given me chills like this game. Damn near every cutscene sent shivers down my spine and I loved every second of it.
22:23 i never noticed the slight shock from Freya. I wonder if a small, small part of her had remnants of feelings for Odin. He made her fall in love with her enough to share ancient cultural secrets and they had a family together, even if it was broken. maybe i’m reading too much into it.
I didn't notice it when playing but saw it at the end of your video: I love the switched positions of Odin laying in Atreus' arms with Kratos standing over them in contrast to the vision in the prophecy, with Kratos laying there
18:00 I don't think I'll ever be able to watch this scene without tearing up 🥺🥹
About the dogs. It is addressed in the GoW 2018 and has a brief mention in Ragnorok, time moves differently when you are in other realms, it can move slower or faster. So to be fair, not that much time could have passed between Kratos leaving and coming back.
Excellent psychological breakdown (0 pun intended) of the story and its characters. I love this version of Thor whom, all along, was reluctant to do his father's bidding. Thanks.
This is one of the best stories I've experienced in a looooooong time
I think the preparation for ragnorok was great. Freyr was already told and said to be a much loved and worshipped figure in the elf world, which is why how he easily convinced them to join the fight and make peace. Then minor being able to convince hel to lend a hand also makes sense. 1. Boar guy said that hel would only talk to someone who’s already which mimir is. 2. Mimir has already been shown and displayed as an intelligent individual who has a silver tongue. 3. He made a really good deal with hel, she gets to retire from her job and dick around. How the fuck could he fail when the person he wants to convince is already way ahead of with the idea.
But it still felt rushed, because it all happens within an hour. I know time works differently in other realms, but the game should of at least acknowledged that a bit more. Especially considering we spend 3 hours collecting fruit and paint and riding a Yak only to spend an hour going from the walls of Asgard to Odins yard. Not to mention the Hel Armt doesn’t show up, neither do the dwarfs… which I know is explained in-game why, but that doesn’t make it any less lame.
The story of how Freyr became so revered by the Elves is just hilarious.
Me, personally, the third half of the game (when brok dies) doesn't feel rushed to me. It just added more urgency. After his death, it felt like they were vulnerable. Like any time Odin can attack and overwhelm them. They needed the edge and needed it fast.
I didn’t feel like it was rushed until people started pointing it out. But the main thing that matters is that I didn’t realize it in the moment.
Greyr easily uniting the elves is basically guaranteed as you find out his role to the elves throughout all your visits alfheim, he is the great uniter and both light and dark elves view him as such, and whenever he shows up they know they must work together for some purpose, doubly so as he is the only person they ever saw emerge from the lake of souls back before their split.
What I find most interesting about Kratos's 'close your heart to their suffering' in the the previous game is that, while it first glance seems to be solid advice, it backfires when Atreaus murders Modi (after the reveal that his own father nearly beat him to death) and how he treats Sindri (still dealing with falling out with Brok) after his newly revealed godhood. 'Open your heart to their suffering' is Kratos accepting that he made a mistake.
Changing your function changes your choices, which changes your fate. Every person and creature who changes their function survives Ragnarok.
But Freyr made a different choice of being a real leader and died
@@islandboy9381 Freyr’s death is a notable exception! I think he represented the opposite. His character become a symbol of inaction and he had to become active in the fight. He could have survived Ragnarok by not participating and potentially ruling Vanaheim, but we had already seen he was ineffective at this and he also knew it. He chose to die an honorable death instead. If he were to survive Ragnarok it would mean he hadn’t changed.
-But also we never see a body.
@@1983horizons1 Well Freyr dying there is accurate to the actual norse mythology telling of Ragnarok where it says he and giant sutr are fated to destroy eachother, so in a poetic way he fulfilled a prophecy but it's because he willingly chose to do so to truly protect not because he tried to hide away from it like he would do earlier.
Everyone hated the part in ironwood and you are the first person that heard say that they enjoyed it I loved it for the same reason you did Atreus finally got to be a kid love this game
I love how the characters mirror each other. Freya and Kratos, Thor and Atreus, Thor and Kratos, Sindri and Kratos, Odin and Kratos,. The story really merits so much reading and re reading to get all the nuances.
It's a very interesting concept that the Norns, rather than making stuff up on a whim and saying it's prophecy, take a moment to look at someone's psychology and then piecing together what they observed into a prophecy
5:40
That was a unprecedented first across all media.
Because, apparently, fulfilling your growth and just remaining a stable good person, is a cardinal sin in story telling ....
I was SO relieved to see what ragnaroc did. It was like a breath of fresh, cold, air
I absolutely love the cut scenes in this, absolutely perfect. The one with Brok is also my favorite.
You are extraordinarily underated. I've only watched your two recent god of war videos but in quality, understanding, and overall theme I think they are better than most huge CZcamsrs. I hope this video and your previous god of war video blow up and you gain some traction and recognition because you most certainly and definitely deserve it.
That scene of Brok blessing the spear is truly touching, I don't care what anyone says
That Brok scene is one of Ragnarok's best. Even more heartbreaking after his death.
Man I’m still torn about Thors death. It’s a good moment for Odins villainy. Showing that this sociopath is so gone. That he can callously murder his own son in the blink of an eye at the first sign of disobedience and than have the gall to look him in the eye and say that he “didn’t want this” it’s despicable. But… I don’t know if it’s a moment good enough to equal what’s lost. I personally am not a huge fan of punctuating a major character redefining moment with the death of said character. It’s annoying when you establish that a character can change, can find a new path, can redirect, has more to do, but you kill them before they can interact with that potential. It feels cheap. And you can’t say that it was too little too late. Kratos, at his worst, was a worse person than Thor. And Kratos earned his redemption. And offered up the chance to return the kindness that Faye gave him. I dunno man. I don’t like writing character deaths this way
His death to me was equally shocking and irritating. I’m not opposed to Thor’s death, I’m just opposed to it happening so suddenly. What I would’ve liked to happen was Thor had a change of heart but was torn and the initial siege fails. The gang falls back to Midgard and Thor arrives trying to stop their war then eventually agreeing to fight alongside then dying when trying to fight Odin. To me, it would’ve made Thor’s death more impactful and would’ve gave us more interactions between him and Kratos
I look at it like this: That type of killing off a character is really, really hard to pull off but it can be done. I think that GOWR did it well for Thor because he and Kratos are the same, men did best when they killed. Kratos understood that and offered Thor change, but Thor had been in Odin's lap far too long. Once Thor was finally able to look up and do something for himself, Odin as too close by and too swift to let such a spark grow to be a threat. It's tragic because maybe Thor could have done great things with Kratos, but Odin denied him that because a good dog obeys and never bites back.
Thor, for the entire game, was a tool in Odin's hands. It may not have looked good for Thor to be redeemed through death, but it does support the theme of Odin being unable to change, and thereby unable to defy fate, by slaying Thor once he attempted to escape his father's leash
I dunno. I don't think you can really come up with a situation where Odin doesn't kill Thor after seeing him start to move away from being his tool/weapon. Because the entire point of Kratos choosing to try and reason with Thor instead of straight up killing him is that it only happens after Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart and become better, and then Kratos follows his son's example as per their promise in Helheim. So the redeeming has to happen at Ragnarock. And Thor is only going to listen to Kratos when he can't actually keep fighting.
At that point, it would be somewhat unrealistic if Thor could suddenly fight off Odin right after being beaten by Kratos, and it would be out of character for Odin not to at least try to kill Thor.
That's what we call a "tragedy", and its not a cheap ploy by the devs, it leaves a hole in your emotions for a while because Thor was robbed of his chance to finally become a better man after centuries of slaughter, and the chance to repair the family he broke time and time again.
When i beat odin, and watched atreus defeat him in an alternate way than killing him, i immediately thought of Aang defeating Ozai from avatar. (Lets just ignore sindri's choice). Defeating him by taking away his ability to be a threat, not by taking his life.
Defeating Odin by essentially trapping him in a state of permanent defenselessness. Atreus knew that the only people who could free his soul was other giants... and why would the sworn enemies of odin, the few who remained, ever choose to do just that? Brilliant ending.
About the dogs being neglected. I had similar thoughts but ultimately decided that they were not neglected. Heres why: They are not dogs. They are wolves. They are not domesticated puppies. They are wolves Kratos and Atreus found while out hunting I believe. Wild wolves. These things can feed themselves. Used to being outside. Plus Kratos left the campfire going so theyd be warm.
Its totally fine everythings ok
the game also only takes place over a week or so
Those wolves were saved by Kratos and Atreus from the Kol raiders that eat wolves. There was a quest focused on them
6:04 while it's not so much helping the character to change, another instance can be seen in Svartelheim at the begining of the game; where we help Mimir undo some of the damage he caused in his past. It was entirely with side missions from the whale to the smoke towers, but it's all there and you get great stuff between the two characters.
Thor reminds me a lot of my Dad. He struggled with abuse from his mother and step-father for most of his life, to a point where he was alienated from them and even moved to an entirely different country (England to Canada) to start a new life. He suffered from alcoholism and often made incredibly bad mistakes while under the influence that affected my family. He made it clear that he was trying to change, and we all knew he loved us more than anything in the world, but the way he was raised and his addiction made it hard. One day, around three years ago, we pushed him a little too far after he fucked up and he ended up leaving to live somewhere else for a few months. Before we could even contact him to see how he was doing and try to keep helping him, he died from medical complications. Completely alone.
I legitimately cried when I watched Thor die, because I wanted so badly to see somebody who resembled my dad to improve unlike he could. I suppose the universe always has other plans though.
Sorry to hear that :( I hope you are well
We need a Sindri spin off lmfaoo just an unhinged masterpiece no one ever expected
My literal only complaint is that the story for this game should have been 2. The start of the story felt well paced at the start, but once Brok dies, the story jumped into 6th gear and so much happens so fast.
If you don’t stop mid combat and absorb what’s happening, it all becomes a blur and then it’s over, you beat Odin.
To be fair, I have absolutely no idea where the writers would split this story leading to Ragnarök without the second game feeling inevitably unfulfilling.
Still an absolutely beautiful game! The side characters and Atreus getting real screen time and growth is very welcome considering GoW 2018 was Kratos’ story of growth
I felt that the 2nd game could have ended with a Thor fight (not necessarily his death, but a fight) and then the 3rd game could be completely about the battle and the aftermath of it.
Just gotta pop in and say this video, among the others that decorate your channel, are just beautiful. you have such strong command of your words and the ways you weave them to pose a new perspective on a story I thought I couldnt love any more than I already do... thank you fatbrett.
Fantastic video and you hit all the big marks, but one thing I think is worth notifying is Kratos lingering wish to "live as a man" as he had told atreus in the first game. We can see a very big reason behind Kratos' opposition to fate was his desire to just be left alone, not get involved and to use his godly powers if not necessary. The whole game, kratos was adamant that the entire god-of-war lifestyle would be put behind him and he just focus on living with his son, his final decision to lead everybody inspired/foreshadowed by Faye's lesson to him in his dream, that Kratos doesn't have to leave the god of war completely in the past. But that the godly powers that once caused so much suffering, can be used to ACTIVELY bring righteousness and justice to the lives of everybody around him. It makes his ultimate decision to be of peace and justice, and his final prophecy that much more satisfying to see. Phenomenal game and a truly legendary character.
This story was so well made I got so invested in the game I cried when it was over
Just found this channel recently and I'm loving the content. I have to say I love your use of zelda music in the back of your commentarys. It's really getting me in the mood to replay skyward sword or twilight princess. Great touch!
Thank you, I got really lost in the themes of the story and the motivation of the characters cuz it felt like things were just bouncing back and forth but this explained it a lot better to me. I just finished the game and I was looking for something exactly like this I'll probably replay it now that I have a better understanding of what it was all actually about.
damn this video made me look back on things i missed like surtr fulfilling prophecy a different way. well done video
Thank you!
I love the idea that Kratos' active drive to make better decisions and help others grow beyond the same trauma and mistakes that he has made in the past directly foreshadows his evolution where he discovers the path to his future of becoming a god that is loved similar to how he and Atreus admired Tyr in the first game. Also I love that the side plots exist as a replacement for Kratos' character growth by showing Kratos' influence on the world around him as it seems like that's the normal continuation of his character to be the one who teaches instead of the one who is taught.
Your videos are some of the best character essays on CZcams. Such a great game and I hope you get a shoutout from Santa Monica for the wonderful work you’ve done.
Just found your channel yesterday and I love it!
I don't think I really fell in love with this game till the Angrboda sequence. It was such a relief, and playing as Atreus was such a breath of fresh air after the heaviness of Kratos. It was like the tension held through the entire first game was finally released. It was so affecting, it changed the context of the entire rest of the game, and even recontextualized the entire previous game for me. That game, despite its story, still seemed overly in love with Kratos' worst traits, his terseness with his son, his dour silence, all those behaviors that are attributed to bad-asses that make them terrible fathers. It depressed me no end when I saw how it affected Atreus, directly leading to him behaving exactly like the kind of god Kratos hates. And yet, Kratos never took responsibility for leading his son down this path of heartlessness. I was happy to see Kratos open up a little, but it was nothing to how he opens up in this game. What made God of War: Ragnarok so moving was how much Kratos learned from Atreus. It was Atreus who learned to trust his own strength, his own wisdom, his own goodness. And from that example, Kratos learned to be better. That story completed the story of the first game in a way I never would have imaged, and made for a magnificent larger story.
Dude, I loved all of your God of War videos. So thoughtful, so intelligent, ans occasionally broken up by a funny ass jab. Hearing you speak over the background music from a certain Skyward so-and-so, has helped make for multiple listens.
I look forward to the next meaty story-rich game you get to analyze. Or, whatever comes next... I'll be there
I don’t have anything specific to say about this video, just wanted you to know I really like your videos
I left a comment on the previous video. I think you are right in that Kratos doesn't grow as much as he shows that he has grown. A sub plot that I feel didn't get as much attention was Kratos's growth as a parent. At the beginning of the previous game, he is hesitant to even touch his son to comfort him. And by the end of this one, he holds long and tight before letting him go to find his destiny. There is even some hidden dialogue you can listen to between Kratos and Mimir if you go to Atreus's room after the main story. Kratos worries if he'd done enough to prepare his son.
Great video, very good analysis of the story and I loved the skyward sword music too🔥
That scene where Kratos urges Brok to bless the Spear is one of the most beautiful moments I've ever experienced; I cried like a baby in front of several people watching me play, and I regret nothing.
That dumb Spear means so much to me, and so does Brok.
7:18 This was a great moment and showed how much Kratos respected Brok.
I remember my dad sharing the "Frog and Scorpion" tale with me as a kid. Glad to see you shared it in this video too. 🌱
I thank the youtube algorithm for blessing me with this recommendation, you've just earned a new subscriber!
Oh god it took me this long to notice that the music played during the blessing scene is the same one from brok's funeral
Really love how God:R confronts relapsing on your journey to grow. How one thing can set you back so many steps but it's okay as long as you are willing to get back on your path.
You even feel bad for Thor and his wife about him losing his two sons for god's sake. When she tells Thor the stories of how they cared for them when they were children it really hits hard.
I'd argue that Kratos had a lot of growth in this game too. Not only did he struggle with his instinct to fall back into his God of War self when Atreus first goes to Asgard, but when he learns that Heimdall is going to kill Atreus, he falls back into his "God Killer" self. He tries to be better by sparing Heimdall, but it ends up with him brutalling killing Heimadll while Mimir tries to stop him from falling back into those patterns. Ragnarok feels like a turning point for Kratos to me - a test, almost, to see if he can continue to change and grow and maintain the path of being better that he started in God of War 2018. It would've been so easy for him to turn back into the God Killer he once was, and during the Ragnarok fight, he almost does. It's when Kratos tells Atreus to open his heart, not close it, that Kratos truly solidifies his change. I believe that moment (and of course the ones leading up to it and Kratos trusting Atreus) is what changes Kratos' fate. When he decides to be better, to save the midgardians, to try and negotiate with Thor.
That blessing part hit so hard especially with him referencing the importance on the nature of things like brok said as he was trying to explain Dwarven magic.
Not enough people realize how massive of a character Faye is in these 2 games. Her simple actions completely change the fate of all 9 realms and virtually every single character's fate/ending.
"Today son, we will be better"
Hearing Christopher Judge choke up there was.... bwah!
16:05 i really like that you didn't have to play every recruitment needed for ragnarök to happen. i was genuinely worried that there is another filler section happening here which pads out the game even more. It was a good decision to recruit the armies off-camera and start with the big fight right away.
The key phrase used throughout these last two games is essentially the main theme of the new kratos and I think is the reason i want more wise man kratos in future games. The phrase "we must be better". Its all about not being who you were, but choosing to become a better version.
I actually love how Kratos told Atreus this story of the Scorpion and the Frog in the first game. Bit of foreshadowing mayhaps?
This is one subtle touch I don't see people talk about a lot, but Kratos DID die fighting Thor. So the Norns weren't even wrong. Atreus doesn't see it, but he legitimately does die, and I have always thought that actually does fulfill the prophecy. Like that first death is a loophole to keep the prophecy true but allow for Kratos to make that developed, intelligent choice.
It would’ve been amazing to see the Norms reaction to how Kratos changed his destiny by subverting his nature