Ordinary People, restaurant scene, Conrad and Karen
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2009
- one of my favourite movies and favourite scenes..
Conrad is sitting, reflecting. A young woman's hand blinds him for a second. It's Karen.
At the last of this restaurant scuence, Karen says,
Conrad? Let's have a great Christmas! Okay?
Let's have... a great year.
Let's have the best year of our whole lives, OK?
We can, you know. This could be the best year ever.
She reminds me of my old highschool friend. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The acting by both of them here. We read the book and watched the movie in high school. I still remember that for whatever reason, when we watched this part of the movie in class, we had a substitute that day, a retired youth probation/parole officer. As Karen was leaving the restaurant, he paused the video (yes, VHS in those days) and asked the class "does this girl kill herself later?" and we were all like 'how did you know that?" He just said, "you can just tell." Watching this scene so many years later, with the type of things life throws at someone by the time they've reached a certain age, I can see it, too. I can't say I could describe it exactly, but you can see that she's struggling. Great acting by Timothy Hutton, too. He just looks exhausted for most of this movie.
Brilliant scene. You assume she's fine & he's the one about to go over the cliff.
However, there are a few subtle hints about her instability which are given to the audience. The silent harsh look she gives him when he mentions ''Leo's corny jokes'', and her despair when she says '''Did I"? referring to not remembering that she had told him. Dinah Manoff is wonderful here, and of course Tim Hutton is a powerhouse in this movie
@@MVR326And the way she’s destroying the paper straw wrapper indicating anxiety.
Oh yea... good observation on your part@@debbiepfisterertrusophisticate
I knew she wasn't fine..at all. When she talked about making it the best year of their lives, it was as if she was trying to convince herself of it..and not doing a good job. Brilliant performance by Ms. Manoff.
@@toddfrank3344 so true
This scene hits me so hard now. I lost my brother to suicide about a year and a half ago. At the time, I was struggling with my own issues and I couldn't see that he was severely depressed. It's sort of hard to see how others are hurting, when your struggling yourself. Wish I could have done something, but it's too late now and I'm tired of beating myself up about it. I've been doing it for so long now and it's wearing me down.
I can see how Conrad is being open and honest about his feelings, but she seems a bit off to me. I can just feel it by watching this scene. Thinking back, I remember my brother being a bit off, but I never saw it due to my depression. My brother Peter thought he was already too far gone to get a therapist, but he loved how I was getting help for myself. This is something that I'll always remember when I think back on everything. I wish I could have known that Peter was struggling inside, but I didn't see it clearly. Karen keeps repeating that she has to go to the Drama Club meeting, but I can see how she's the one who's struggling inside and putting up a front that everything is okay.... but she's suffering inside. :(
I thought on my first time she wanted to get away from him because he was still not the upbeat person she was being, and hanging out with a psychiatrist, as if she didn't want that world for herself anymore... What she didn't want was the whole world instead.
I'm so very sorry 😐
There’s a great line I learned when my sister ended up in therapy: “You’ll know when it’s a suicide when you won’t know it at all.” That’s always stuck with me, and I’ve lost 2 friends to suicide.
I'm sorry.
Dinah Manoff should have won the Best Supporting Actress Oscar for this powerhouse performance in this one scene.
Had she been in the film more she probably could have been nominated
Hell yes!
this is DEFINITELY the most touching scenes in the movie- especially when you watched it for the first time, not knowing how the movie progresses and what eventually happens . The searching, cute, little ill at ease mannerisms, and sooooooooo wishing they get back to together again as the need each other in that special way.......the great feeling that karen will be a great influence on conrad and looking forward to her helping him................then.............oh wow.............
I like how they smile at eachother when seated across from on another. For a second I could see hope in their eyes
The smile that she gives him at 4:32 goes hand in hand with the reference to "A Thousand Clowns", a metaphor for the happy face she puts on in public.
😮 that's strange that scene also remind me of the song send in the clowns.
The veneer... I love it. She truly is performing the role of an eccentric trying their best to fit into society.
"Let's have a great year." Kind of like the oft-heard psychobabble, "Make it a great day." Not always that simple, as shown later in the movie.
This movie always bothered me. It reminded me of my own family. My mom was just like the mother. But a very good movie
Wonderful film that stays with you. Brilliantly acted and directed.
This movie is incredible
Such amazing actors they nailed this scene
Conrad assumes she's stronger than him because she presents well & isn't seeing a therapist. He also assumes Buck was stronger because he was older & an athlete. He's wrong on both counts.
"The only one who can help me is myself. At least that's what my dad told me". That line is so agonizing when we know what happens later. Conrad is trying to connect their mutual bond, but she's running from it. She's running and there's no one to save her. It's heart-breaking. Notice how for most of the scene they are window dressing "it's great, I'm great, you look great, let's have a great Christmas!". He's running too but fortunately he has Dr. Berger who ultimately is there to help him face his issues.
There are so many subtle little things that make this movie so good. For example, when he hears that she was also seeing a doctor, he takes off his jacket. 02:37 He wasn't feeling at ease with her until he realized she was still struggling, too. Then his comfort quickly disappears when she says she's no longer seeing a doctor. Redford thought out every scene so carefully.
3:00 - "... at least that's what my dad says ..."
It's easy to miss that little remark upon first viewing, but it's actually the most significant line in the entire scene. She's not actually speaking from her own heart, she's just repeating what her father wants her to believe.
I completely missed that line the first time I saw this! So heartbreaking.
If that was the case her father has her blood on his hands...
@@US_ARMY_25_INF._DIV.
😮 Her father was trying to give her a good advice the best that he knew how to because she was seeing a therapist and it just was not working for her so her father told her she'll just have to help herself she's only one that can help hers self, he didn't tell her to kill herself
@@J.A.G.618 There's so much we don't know about her. What if her father was as cold and unloving to her as Beth was to Conrad? What if it was all about image for him, the same way it was for Beth? If you want the best for your child and one doctor doesn't help, why would you give up on all doctors at that point? And how do we even know the doctor didn't help? Family members sabotage the recovery of other family members more often than we want to think.
@@gaelsdottir5046
😮 Let's get one thing straight about Beth. She was not cold and unloving to Conrad. The beginning of the movie she called him down for breakfast and he's just sitting at the table when his father told him to go ahead and eat is breakfast his mother just sat down in front of him. And the father asked him, " Are you hungry?" He answers back by thinking out loud" am I hungry?" After his mother had fixed his favorite breakfast and served it to him and she said it's your favorite, French toast with maple syrup?! He look down at his plate and looked at his dad and said, "No I'm not hungry." so Bev turn around and grab the plate and scraped it in the sink even though the father protest her taking the plate and scraping the food into the garbage disposal, she felt rebuffed by Conrad. Throughout the movie she shows she cares about him but his response to her is to be un communicative to her, indifference. So she by making a remark like he hates my cooking so she brushes his food in the garbage disposal and says there'll be some fresh fruits left out for you if you're hungry when you come home from school. Throughout the movie this type of reaction to each other is going on. She makes attempts to show love but he rebuffs her attempts. Like she brought his sweater out to him because he thought he will be cold outside then she sits down to talk to him and he ends up barking at her when he questioned her about why she didn't let Bucky (her dead son) get a little dog that he begged her for and she makes an attempt to explain and he starts barking at her to her explaining. She stiffens her body and stood up and says to Conrad, (It's starting to get cold you better put on your sweater if you're going to stay out here." and then she goes inside. It's as if he's punishing her for not being emotional about his brother death like the rest of the family yet he doesn't understand why or realized that he's angry and annoyed about her responses as she retracts to herself because she doesn't know how to deal with him. She herself is having a time dealing with the death of Bucky and then the youngest son who is almost a man tries to commit suicide which threw her off yet she makes every attempt to protect his privacy of seeing a psychiatrist from their neighbors and Friends. That's another way she was showing love. She freezes up because she didn't know how he was going to react to her so she starts to avoid him because he snaps at her the way he did some of his school friends.You'll have to reanalyze the whole movie.
Even though Conrad sounds sadder, there's something authentic in his words. When he reminds something beautiful about his past (the hospital), he is talking from his heart. Karen words are happy, even his expression, face and all, but there is a sense of faking her feelings or not even really knowing what she is saying and even what she is doing (some kind dissociation maybe, which matches good with her amnesia and noticiable anxiety). In my book, no other movie reflects so good teenage severe depression like this 1980 movie.
Excellent analysis. I think that's why she doesn't realize she talked about the Drama Club and play. She's almost in a daze pretending she's happy and saying things she thinks people will want to hear so she can hide her real feelings.
In hindsight, this scene makes me cry
Post-pandemic catchup with a friend gone wrong. We've been here, guys. Never give up when there's always an opportunity to have new experiences.
02:49 Every depressed person would hate to hear this from a friend. Feels like being deceived.
It was a short Visit. She did look like she was doing better than he was, but that was a False Veneer.
Poor Conrad tragedies he's faced
Dinah was perfect
A boy i knew committed suicide earlier this year. He was such happy bright kid. I still do t understand. Its frightening.
this scene always breaks my heart.....timothy hutton is so outstanding in this film......the fingers at 03:53
This scene was filmed at the Original Walker Brothers Pancake House in Highland Park, IL. It is still there.
It's the Walker Bros in Wilmette, not Highland Park. The Highland Park restaurant is in Port Clinton Square, which was built in the mid-1980s. Ordinary People came out in 1980.
@@SarahRenz59 Thank you! Great information.
I wasn't close to my mother and lived a very blue collar life, I can relate to Conrad big time when I saw this movie and how interacted with people.
never see anyone drinking a coke
tuff
How of a different scene or different Movie would have it been- if he ended up getting together with his best Male friend from the Hospital.?
sorry Karen , hospitals are a part of real life.
That is whack
😮 both of them was not ready for the world and to jump in feet first back into the things that they were dealing with and the stresses they had🎉 before they endedp up where they did at the mental hospital! Conrad didn't want to deal with coming home and deal with the facade he would have to put up with being around his mother and seeing his best friend that was also his brother best friend. His trying to do the swim meet that they all was in but he just couldn't cut it because it was just too soon. That's why he missed the cocoon of the mental hospital they were safe inside from all the stresses of the world! Karen on the other hand she was trying to fit in by jumping in feet first and taking on all of those school projects like being the Secretary of her school in trying to put together events just was too much to do too soon. She was trying to do like her dad say the only one that can help you is yourself since therapy didn't seem to be working for her as she said. So she decided that she was going to have herself a good year and she told Conrad the same thing let's make this a good year and make this the best year of our life.
She looks so much like her mother, Lee Grant, here.
Wow Dinah Manoff was soo good in this, *Grease of course and Empty Nest. Really surprised w/ all those successes she just faded and never wet onto bigger things.
shs did way more than the ones mentioned here, she is also the Daughter of the legendary Oscar winning Actress Lee Grant, had a big career regardless
Hollywood is a tough business, a lot of competition.
happy new year~~ all the ordinary people~~~
Let's have... a great year.
Oh and u could def. tell she's still not well and 'off' :/ Even though I def. agree w/ her to a degree that soo many x therapists simply say things already know and many suck and very expensive. It can be helpful and bring some temporary relief but youre still paying someone to listen to you lol.I find that if you have a good friend or two and family support that can be enough or better than a random therapist (who's just a stranger) Regardless, she def. shouldve been on meds at the min.
outinsider > His character cannot pick up on it because he is on the fence with his own emotions and feelings, contemplation of suicide in his own mind that he cannot pick up anything subtle that Karen is expressing for herself. The veneer that is the device that individuals fighting depression have can throw anyone off, really. When I first watched this movie, I was concerned that she was not seeing a doctor. Listening to what her father has to say. With having watched the film, we know that Karen commits suicide, which actually surprised me at first.
I was stunned that she killed herself. Which shows me how little I know.
MARTY MARASCHINO
I thought it was her!