Really interesting vid. I will say as a European it is next to (if not) impossible to find cobbler to resole Stitchdown. It just isn’t used here. So for quality of life I think GYW suits here. And Blake of course
I’ve been working on a pair of vintage redwings, and interestingly, they are a combination of the hand-welted and Goodyear welted construction. They are most like the hand-welted method because of the lack of canvas rib, as you described. However they would have been machine stitched, and not hand sewn. Its very interesting.
I also have some of each of these styles but I do think it is fair to say that Goodyear welted boots are a "gold standard" level. I have spent my life in the logging and cowboy agriculture industry and these boots do get worn out. I don't believe that having multiple pairs of boots that will never wear out or need resoled because of wear is not uncommon at all. You are blessed. You are speaking to such a small niche market. You have great appeal. I have several friends that watch you and dream of owning tens of thousands of dollars worth of boots or jackets and then pull on our boots and go to work. This isn't meant to be some kind of blue collar superiority beat down. I really appreciate your style. I'll work with 8-10 men today that will be wearing handmade boots, jeans and hats but they will be covered in dust, possible some manure, wet if it's raining, and dry if it's not. Welove our style and your thjoughts. I guess I just want you to know we are out there too.
Totally fair points. I appreciate the different perspective. I don't completely disagree with the notion and as I said in the video, I think Goodyear welted boots are excellent. Part of my issue is the context that it's coming from in terms of how certain "influencers" say it.
When I set out to make my own boots, I had to choose a construction method, and I settled on Norvegese cuz it seemed the easiest. No need to make a welt or anything, and the channel/holdfast is easier to make, especially the way I do it. It's all done by hand, and it's extremely durable and very water resistant. No machines, just time and work.
Great video jake, i completely agree, just through natural progression of my collection i no longer own any GYW boots, they are all either hand welted or stitchdown. Like you mention, i may never truly see a real world instance of the superiorty or differences between the particlar methods i my everyday use. I do prefer the handwelt construction not only for reasons you mentioned in your video but i think they are more aesthetically appealing.
Yeah I totally get that. It all depends on what you're after and what makes you happy. Hand welted is definitely superior, but it's not necessary. However, it is nice to have like you say
I agree with you completely, GYW is not the gold standard. However, in medicine the gold standard is the agreed upon method best for the population and can be exceeded. That may be semantics, but I would say one could go beyond the gold standard in many areas. As for footwear construction, I don’t think there is a gold standard and each method has its advantages and disadvantages as many have pointed out. Thanks again for a great video.
Excellent point. I know gold standard doesn't have to be the absolute best, but like you said, I believe there are other equally good methods that shouldn't be left out.
One interesting thing is that the Pacific Northwest brands will sometimes have a McKay/Blake (I think this is an interchangeable term) stitch added to what is already stitch down construction. On my Frank's Wilshire boots this is used.
IMO it's a good baseline. Gold standard for me would be having the flexibility of a Blake stitch, but waterproof. Think, the low boots used by the IJA.
I wonder how much the influence of r/goodyearwelt in the shoe/boot enthusiast community kind of instilled this notion of GYW as a heuristic for quality footwear? GYW probably is a “gold standard” of sorts for the type of sub-$300 fashion boots, er, I mean “lifestyle” boots that most influencers and content creators are featuring, at least compared to more common glued construction. For actual work and outdoor boots, vulcanized construction is really good too, (i.e. Army-issue jungle boots, Red Wing Supersole, Crispi, Schnee’s, etc).
Goodyear welt at the end of the day is just cemented construction with extra steps. I like goodyear welted boots, I own some, very happy with them. But when you get right down to it the only thing holding the sole to the insole/upper is the gemming which is cemented on. That is unless you consider a hand welt a form of goodyear welt. I've seen a lot of makers refer to hand welts as "insole channel goodyear welt" or "hand goodyear welt". You also have to consider the cement will likely outlast the stitching. The stitching is really there because it can be detatched and restitched for resoles. Look at the bottoms of any of the boots that you wear and you'll see the stitching has been torn up. Look at how shoes are normally damaged and you'll see if its not wearing right through the soles it's probably the stitching coming apart. That's on purpose because it's much cheaper to restitch than if the stitching tore straight through the leather. It's the same concept as you have with denim jeans. A good high quality pair will have cotton stitching because that wears out faster than the denim fabric. On a low quality pair of Levis you'll see poly stitching, which tears right through the denim. When those blow out the denim tears and it's much more difficult to repair down the road. For the most part I prefer stitchdown because I can see where the upper is stitched right to the outsole and I think it looks cool. Realistically though the most durable construction would probably be moccasin because the vamp is what holds everything together and wraps around underneath the foot. I don't have personal experience with moccasins though.
That's a great point. It really is a form of cemented construction. It's weird that people call hand welting a form of Goodyear welting when it's the other way around. Hand welting was first snd Goodyear welting was made as a way to speed that up and bring costs down. I'm also with you about the stitching. People don't realize that it's much easier to repair broken thread on jeans than replacing ripped fabric. This is one reason I prefer cotton stitching
@almostvintagestyle I think it's become that Goodyear welt is so known and has become such a buzzword that it took over the space. Now Goodyear welt is a point of reference for people who don't know that there are other constructions out there. I'd be interested to learn about what hand welt was called before Goodyear welt. Almost if not all welts were hand welted so did they just call it a welt? I'm sure someone knows.
As an anecdote: I rotate my boots a lot, keep them treed, and have a bigger collection than you. Every time I've gotten a GYW boot back from a cobbler it's fit much tighter--which suggests to me that the gemming has come loose and the cobbler fixed it.
Another point, with Blake stitched construction you can just paste the outsoles on top of a midsole which makes resoles much easier/cheaper and solves the waterproofing concerns.
Very interesting points. I had not heard about that often before, but if that is a common issue, it is certainly a mark against gyw boots. Thanks for bringing that up!
I wonder if what’s happening is your foot is molding/compressing the leather insole before you resole, giving you some extra space, but then on the resole the cork gets replaced/refilled which is taking up more space in the insole/midsole layer making the boots feel tighter, by pushing up again on the leather insole.
I think they are. Stitchdown is a pain to get resoled if your boot isn’t from a company that specializes in it. Blake is so rare that it’s hard to find someone who does it.
Please start using a script. You stutter and double back on what you say often, resulting in a frustratingly long and wordy video. Please see 2:45 - 3:00 for a prime example of what I mean. Not trying to be a dick, you have extensive knowledge, but just trying to help you make better videos with clearer articulation.
I understand that it would be better to make a script, but then I wouldn't enjoy making the videos and as a result, I would stop making them altogether.
Thank you. I understand my videos aren't slick, but I wouldn't be making videos if I had to do all that haha. I have fun making these and I want to keep it that way :)
@@almostvintagestyle no worries. Just offering what I thought was constructive criticism, but like I said, the knowledge you bring is worth more. So continue doing what you do please.
Really interesting vid. I will say as a European it is next to (if not) impossible to find cobbler to resole Stitchdown. It just isn’t used here. So for quality of life I think GYW suits here. And Blake of course
Ah well that's good to know. Here, it's not quite as difficult.
I’ve been working on a pair of vintage redwings, and interestingly, they are a combination of the hand-welted and Goodyear welted construction. They are most like the hand-welted method because of the lack of canvas rib, as you described. However they would have been machine stitched, and not hand sewn. Its very interesting.
That might be like what viberg does where they have a machine that channels the insole
I also have some of each of these styles but I do think it is fair to say that Goodyear welted boots are a "gold standard" level. I have spent my life in the logging and cowboy agriculture industry and these boots do get worn out. I don't believe that having multiple pairs of boots that will never wear out or need resoled because of wear is not uncommon at all. You are blessed. You are speaking to such a small niche market. You have great appeal. I have several friends that watch you and dream of owning tens of thousands of dollars worth of boots or jackets and then pull on our boots and go to work. This isn't meant to be some kind of blue collar superiority beat down. I really appreciate your style. I'll work with 8-10 men today that will be wearing handmade boots, jeans and hats but they will be covered in dust, possible some manure, wet if it's raining, and dry if it's not. Welove our style and your thjoughts. I guess I just want you to know we are out there too.
Totally fair points. I appreciate the different perspective. I don't completely disagree with the notion and as I said in the video, I think Goodyear welted boots are excellent. Part of my issue is the context that it's coming from in terms of how certain "influencers" say it.
@@almostvintagestyle I do believe a lot of them are shills. Huckberry shills make me see double!
When I set out to make my own boots, I had to choose a construction method, and I settled on Norvegese cuz it seemed the easiest. No need to make a welt or anything, and the channel/holdfast is easier to make, especially the way I do it. It's all done by hand, and it's extremely durable and very water resistant. No machines, just time and work.
Sounds like the best of all worlds.
Great video jake, i completely agree, just through natural progression of my collection i no longer own any GYW boots, they are all either hand welted or stitchdown. Like you mention, i may never truly see a real world instance of the superiorty or differences between the particlar methods i my everyday use. I do prefer the handwelt construction not only for reasons you mentioned in your video but i think they are more aesthetically appealing.
Yeah I totally get that. It all depends on what you're after and what makes you happy. Hand welted is definitely superior, but it's not necessary. However, it is nice to have like you say
I'd like to see a boot/ leather care vid
That is one I'm going to make very soon!
I agree with you completely, GYW is not the gold standard. However, in medicine the gold standard is the agreed upon method best for the population and can be exceeded. That may be semantics, but I would say one could go beyond the gold standard in many areas. As for footwear construction, I don’t think there is a gold standard and each method has its advantages and disadvantages as many have pointed out. Thanks again for a great video.
Excellent point. I know gold standard doesn't have to be the absolute best, but like you said, I believe there are other equally good methods that shouldn't be left out.
One interesting thing is that the Pacific Northwest brands will sometimes have a McKay/Blake (I think this is an interchangeable term) stitch added to what is already stitch down construction. On my Frank's Wilshire boots this is used.
Interesting. Have they explained why they add that? I guess it would be as a fail safe of some sort?
IMO it's a good baseline. Gold standard for me would be having the flexibility of a Blake stitch, but waterproof. Think, the low boots used by the IJA.
Yeah I agree. It's definitely good, but I wouldn't call it gold standard.
I wonder how much the influence of r/goodyearwelt in the shoe/boot enthusiast community kind of instilled this notion of GYW as a heuristic for quality footwear? GYW probably is a “gold standard” of sorts for the type of sub-$300 fashion boots, er, I mean “lifestyle” boots that most influencers and content creators are featuring, at least compared to more common glued construction. For actual work and outdoor boots, vulcanized construction is really good too, (i.e. Army-issue jungle boots, Red Wing Supersole, Crispi, Schnee’s, etc).
Yeah thats a good point. My guess is they and the influencers who work with a lot of lower priced brands do have a lot to do with it.
Goodyear welt at the end of the day is just cemented construction with extra steps. I like goodyear welted boots, I own some, very happy with them. But when you get right down to it the only thing holding the sole to the insole/upper is the gemming which is cemented on. That is unless you consider a hand welt a form of goodyear welt. I've seen a lot of makers refer to hand welts as "insole channel goodyear welt" or "hand goodyear welt". You also have to consider the cement will likely outlast the stitching. The stitching is really there because it can be detatched and restitched for resoles. Look at the bottoms of any of the boots that you wear and you'll see the stitching has been torn up. Look at how shoes are normally damaged and you'll see if its not wearing right through the soles it's probably the stitching coming apart. That's on purpose because it's much cheaper to restitch than if the stitching tore straight through the leather.
It's the same concept as you have with denim jeans. A good high quality pair will have cotton stitching because that wears out faster than the denim fabric. On a low quality pair of Levis you'll see poly stitching, which tears right through the denim. When those blow out the denim tears and it's much more difficult to repair down the road.
For the most part I prefer stitchdown because I can see where the upper is stitched right to the outsole and I think it looks cool. Realistically though the most durable construction would probably be moccasin because the vamp is what holds everything together and wraps around underneath the foot. I don't have personal experience with moccasins though.
That's a great point. It really is a form of cemented construction. It's weird that people call hand welting a form of Goodyear welting when it's the other way around. Hand welting was first snd Goodyear welting was made as a way to speed that up and bring costs down. I'm also with you about the stitching. People don't realize that it's much easier to repair broken thread on jeans than replacing ripped fabric. This is one reason I prefer cotton stitching
@almostvintagestyle I think it's become that Goodyear welt is so known and has become such a buzzword that it took over the space. Now Goodyear welt is a point of reference for people who don't know that there are other constructions out there. I'd be interested to learn about what hand welt was called before Goodyear welt. Almost if not all welts were hand welted so did they just call it a welt? I'm sure someone knows.
As an anecdote: I rotate my boots a lot, keep them treed, and have a bigger collection than you. Every time I've gotten a GYW boot back from a cobbler it's fit much tighter--which suggests to me that the gemming has come loose and the cobbler fixed it.
Another point, with Blake stitched construction you can just paste the outsoles on top of a midsole which makes resoles much easier/cheaper and solves the waterproofing concerns.
Very interesting points. I had not heard about that often before, but if that is a common issue, it is certainly a mark against gyw boots. Thanks for bringing that up!
Also great point
I wonder if what’s happening is your foot is molding/compressing the leather insole before you resole, giving you some extra space, but then on the resole the cork gets replaced/refilled which is taking up more space in the insole/midsole layer making the boots feel tighter, by pushing up again on the leather insole.
@@aradoranPossible! But, I don't think the cork (as new/resoled) is thick enough to account for the differences I'm feeling.
Handwelt #1 😂
I agree!
Why is this video not 30 mins long. In all seriousness why can I just listen to you rabbit on about this stuff hahahah.
Haha I appreciate that a lot. You have no idea. I love when people want longer videos because I could definitely talk more.
🎉🎉🎉
Thank you!
Definitely a lot cheaper to get them resoled versus stitch down but gold standard naa
Yeah I'm not saying it's all bad, but gold standard is too high of a mark imo
@@almostvintagestyle same
I think they are. Stitchdown is a pain to get resoled if your boot isn’t from a company that specializes in it. Blake is so rare that it’s hard to find someone who does it.
Fair points, but I would still argue that hand welting would deserve the title more
Please start using a script. You stutter and double back on what you say often, resulting in a frustratingly long and wordy video. Please see 2:45 - 3:00 for a prime example of what I mean. Not trying to be a dick, you have extensive knowledge, but just trying to help you make better videos with clearer articulation.
Jesus dont watch if your delicate little ears cant stand a actual human talking imperfectly
Plenty of videos are are super slick and highly produced. I like Jake's more down to earth style.
I understand that it would be better to make a script, but then I wouldn't enjoy making the videos and as a result, I would stop making them altogether.
Thank you. I understand my videos aren't slick, but I wouldn't be making videos if I had to do all that haha. I have fun making these and I want to keep it that way :)
@@almostvintagestyle no worries. Just offering what I thought was constructive criticism, but like I said, the knowledge you bring is worth more. So continue doing what you do please.