How to Keep Slab Tables Flat - How To Woodworking
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- How I make and inlay Canadian Woodworks style steel C-channel supports in my live edge slab tables. These supports will keep large live edge tables flat, while allowing for expansion and contraction through the seasons. These also work well for adding strength to barn doors.
Need one on one help? Skype consultation: www.blacktails...
Buy Blacktail apparel: teespring.com/...
Link to buy Canadian Woodworks C-channel:
conceptthirtee...?ref=btjrt2lvnw8g
(Discount code expired)
blacktailstudi...
/ blacktailstudio
/ blacktailstudio - Jak na to + styl
This was perfect as a vanity desk for me. czcams.com/users/postUgkxMAlHv7-BBWMrPRm5-uEoD6rtdT7SG2Qr Especially the glossy finish. Easy to cleanI was looking for something that wasn't the traditional white and with more of a modern feel. This fit the bill beautifully. I put it together with no problems, by myself in under an hour.Make sure you double check where you place the drawer tracks before screwing down. I had one track that needed to be aligned with different holes than the rest.
This is a valuable addition to my woodwork collection czcams.com/users/postUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO I still will rate this woodwork plan as the best in my reference library. It always seem to stand out from the rest whenever you go through the library. This is a masterpiece.
That's a good point to remember, tight center bolt and slightly loose outer bolts. Wood movement is not just likely, it's guaranteed. I find that putting a little Loctite blue on the bolt threads really helps keep them in their slightly loose setting but prevents them backing out on their own. Be sure to use the blue and be wary of the red if you ever wish to disassemble the table. The red is some gnarly stuff.
That’s a great idea actually.
Bro, you have the best most in depth slab channel I've seen. I love it.
Then you’ll like the next couple weeks!
Really nice workmanship. I like how you think of everything. Take it or leave it (just a suggestion). When installing the C channel, I think I would just drill a single hole in the centre of the channel and slot the outer holes as you have done. This way the channel will always remain centred when expansion and contraction happen. Just my 2 cents worth.
MikeJ yup! I think you’re right on with that point.
Two questions: i remember you saying you didnt like drilling into epoxy so you needed odd sizes for river tables.... so what would you do on a river table with epoxy all down the middle? and is there a formula you go by for how many of these channel supports youd would need based on the length and width of a table? i.e. for a 60" table youd use x amount and for a 104" table youd use y amount
A well explained and concise tutorial on a topic/technique not often discussed. And appreciate the specifics regarding the hardware.
Carlo Stenta thanks Carlo, I really appreciate you saying so.
One question: do you need a specific type of drill bit to drill the holes for the inserts?
fantastic channel . Greetings from the Slovak Republic/ Europe.
This is exactly what have been wondering, thank you!
Ya man
Excellent pointers, thanks.
A tip for your slotted holes in your channel. A die grinder bit will fit your drill press. Step up the speed and slot away.
Awesome. I am an Ironworker with a wood working hobby
Very cool!
thank you
TapFree ( available from McMaster and probably Amazon) is an excellent drilling and tapping fluid. Comes formulated for ferrous or nonferrous metals.
Chicken fat works too... ample, free supply I keep refrigerated after roasted or broiled meal.
Hello, love your videos. I'm curious if you ever considered outsourcing your c-channels to a local laser cutting shop. I oversee the lasers where I work and I can tell you, a laser could cut an entire profile for one of your c-channels in less time than you will spend to make one of your slots. A job-shop close to where you live probably wouldn't charge that much to cut and bend channels. You wouldn't be limited to available C-channel sizes, it would save you a ton of time and you would get much softer edges than you have with saw cuts and drilled holes. If you wanted, you could get fancy and have them cut a name or logo into the steel too.
Ya, I buy em premise most of the time now
Always give great advice. Thank you.
Thanks!
What a straight piece of steel work The same just placing it on top of the surface? I have a long piece of wooden art and I wanna make sure it doesn’t war overtime.
Can also slot the steel with a cutoff blade in a Dremel. The process would go a bit faster if you pre-cut with a cutoff blade in an angle grinder, but since the diameter is larger you won’t be able to go all the way through.
Thank you for making this video! Very helpful
Thanks!
Excellent, clear narration. You could read audio books
Oh man, my next career
I always enjoy your videos, your techniques and craft is 💯
I don't know how I never knew about your channel, but it's great! 👍🏾🍻😎💯
Boom! Welcome!
Great informative video on c channels!!!🔥
Hey Cam, thank you for what you do!
I've been working through your epoxy workshop and the information in it is amazing... but I'm left with a lot of questions about C channel!
1. If you have translucent epoxy, do you try to hide the C channel, place it differently (I did see you try that in one video), or run it under the table legs to hide them?
2. Can the table leg bases act as a C-channel too, or do they bend to much to count?
3. How far apart do you place the channels?
4. How long of a channel do you aim for compared to the tabletop?
Just watched a "sunken log" video and wondered if you ever played with that type??? It is said to be more stable since they being underwater seems to age the logs perfectly...
As always, great video! 😊
Cam, I have been following you for a couple of years and have purchased some of your products and training. So, I have a lot of faith in what you do. that said, I am curious as to your thoughts on the following: I am about ready to build a slab table and it was a no brainer that I was going to add a C channel, then I saw a vide that Encurtis just put out which got me thinking. Basically, he is saying that a C channel is a waste of time at best. So, I started doing some research on the topic. While I cannot find a lot of information on it, I did find a similar story being told by others. Basically, they are contending that: 1) even steel would not be strong enough against the forces of wood. 2) Keeping a slab flat is really done when preparing it and that a C channel will not save a poorly prepared slab. 3) Some speculation here on their part, but the routing of the channels for the the C Channel do more to help the board warp than if the C channel were never installed.
Thanks mate this helped a lot!
Perfect thx
Hey Cam! Will C-Channel straighten out a partially cupped river table thats already been planed and cupped afterwards?
No it will not
You want your tabletop to be flat, the c-channel is primarily to keep the wood from shifting seasonally. It will likely always come back to cupped regardless of how much steel you attach it to… it’s likely I ne day sooner or later you’ll hear a loud pop if you decide to try and stop the wood from moving, if you stop one crack it will just create another if it’s got tension in it.
Here is an example of what I’m saying… czcams.com/video/V6jJpRMI40o/video.html
Thank you
Hi, great video and explanations. I have a bamboo slab (69x39 and 1,5" thick) installed 8 years ago on a kitchen island. It started to warp in the last 2-3 years. I tryied a few tricks, like a wet towel to return it flat. It works but it warps again and even worst then before. We do oil it but we forgot to oil the underside. Can I install the C channels and bring it back flat using the water towel and tighten everything up? Also, on a 1,5" thick, how deep should I go to or what size of a C channel should I use?
Thanks a million@@Cdaprod
Great job
Such a good video
Great info, thanks!
Great video! Thanks!
In all the examples I've seen, the c-channel is secured to the table underside at right angles to the long table edge. This makes sense since wood expands across the grain, and in most case the long grain runs more or less along the long side of the table. But what about the case where the long grain is at an angle? I have a 40" x 74" table with the long grain running at about 30 degrees to the long edge of the table. I think I should I position the c channel at right angles to the long grain, instead of at right angles to the long side. Or does it matter? I ask because placing the c channels at an angle interferes with positioning of the legs, which DO have to be at right angles to the long edge.
Thanks so much, great video
Hi Cam, that table is 2 inches thick by 44 x 60
Hi Cam, I love your work! I bought a walnut slab some weeks ago for a dining table I want to build and I've been binge watching your videos since then. They have been extremely helpful to prepare myself for the build, while being super entretaining at the same time. I've seen you install the c-channels for your table tops almost always with the back side up. However, for one table you put the back side of the c-channel down wards (I hope that makes sense). The guy I bought my slab from recomended me to inlay the c-channels with the back side down. Is there a reason you might think of, why it would be better that way?
Keep up the good work!
Good content . I am going to try this method
Julie Robin taylor oh good let me know how it goes!
Very nicely done. I appreciate you directing me over to this video. This should help me with my tables.
Going back to our conversation on the other video, my wood is dry and not wet. I didnt have larger slabs, so I ripped some boards to length (roughly 4" wide) and then joined them together on the edges with glue and pocket screws on the bottom side. The issue I get is the table slightly cupping as it moves and breaths between the warmer months and the colder months. Flat as "A board" in the warmer months, but moves slightly in the colder months.
This may also be contributed to how I have the top attached to the base (coffee tables and end tables). I did attach that with pocket screws also. Hindsight, it doesnt really give the table a great way to move. I'm completely a mature and I really dont know of a better way to attach the top to the base.
Do you have any videos or suggestions on how I can improve on that?
Do you need to do anything to keep it from sagging lengthwise?
I got the same question. I have a 3m long slab table that is sagging in the middle.
Thanks 👍👍
Hi, great video and explanations. I have a bamboo slab (69x39 and 1,5" thick) installed 8 years ago on a kitchen island. It started to warp in the last 2-3 years. I tryied a few tricks, like a wet towel to return it flat. It works but it warps again and even worst then before. We do oil it but we forgot to oil the underside. Can I install the C channels and bring it back flat using the water towel and tighten everything up? Also, on a 1,5" thick, how deep should I go to or what size of a C channel should I use?
Thanks a million
Exceptional video.
Thanks!
Is that possible to install the c-channels after pouring the epoxy? Is that gonna work as fine as if I did it at the beginning? Thanks
Definitely do it after
Have you ever tried angle iron? I've got some pretty thick slabs that I think I could cut deep enough to insert angle iron without too much work. If it's a bad I Dea I want to know though hahaha.
Hey Cam, I really enjoy watching your videos and learning from you. I have a question when you get a chance: how do you go about sealing the edges and bottom that would be exposed wood? Are those only sealed by the oil product you apply near the end of the process? My thought process is: since the wood is clamped to the bottom and sides of the mold, when the mold is removed, that part of the wood does not have any epoxy on it.
Thanks for clear video! Is there a reason to use a C-channel over a L profile?
Hi cam. You said you don’t have to lay the inlay completely flush correct? I can get away with just routing out the lines for the lip of the channels? I’m only working with a 1” thick table top.
SO- I am doing a solid walnut slab 22” wide x 8’ long x 2 1/4” thick. Would this system work for “stabilizing” this table and should I run them long ways or cross like you did based on the solid slab layout? I was concerned about the thickness of the slab being too thin after I router in the 1 1/4” C-channel…
Run em across the grain 👍🏼
Hi Cam, is there a formula to help determine how many c channels you need for a slab...I am making a 7' x 40" dining room table. Should I just use two on the ends or do I need one or two towards the middle of the table. Thanks much. Great video
I’ve made a tabletop out of 7 old weatherboards that is only 19-20mm thick. Should I still use C channel to keep it flat or something else? T bar? Angle bar? Does it need to be steel or would aluminium suffice? It’s a long table, 2.7 metres.
Thank you for the amazing video. I made a walnut table and it ended up cupping over the winter. My guess is the legs didnt allow for movement. Do you think a few c channels would help pull this flat again? It cupped about 1/4 inch over a 44 inch wide table. Thank you
What actually makes the table warping after pouring the resin? I made a table top with olive wood and some resin. After it cured the complete table top warped. Over both axis. I tried to put some C-Channels in even that is not making the table top flat. The planks where about 20mm thick. That is so desperate to see that nice finished product warping that hard. Will you touch base on that on your workshop as well? Thanks in advance.
I have a black walnut table live edge that is about 50x108”. It has cupped about an inch on each side. I was considering doing a c channel as well, but using epoxy all the way across to prevent. It seems you are saying it needs the room to move and the epoxy would be counter productive. Thoughts?
I am going to cut apart, joint, plane and reglue first. Forgot to mention that.
Cam, Great videos. I have what I think is a quick question. When do you install the c channel? After you pour or before?
definitely after I would think because after a pour you have to flatten again probably and don’t wanna be hitting metal
Hi Cam,
I love all the videos, question is it always necessary to add c channels to an epoxy table and what direction do you recommend ? my table I'm making is 6 ' x 3', I'm on the finishing stages now and have been watching and using your finishing workshop to help.
Thanks
Phil
from what I’m told by people who make river tables for a living is that a c-channel isn’t necessary and if the wood wants to move it’ll move
to help it not move taking about the same material on top and bottom helps, from what I’m told
Should I always put c-channels in a epoxy river double side desk like 108”x30” ?
Thank you again 👍
No guarantees either way!
I have bought 3 0live ash roundish through cuts .What is the best way to stop them bowing .I was thinking 4mm or above mild steel plate .. round or square .Or would the cu metal 2 inch x 1 inch mitred and made as big as the slabs will allow welded at the corners .Then routed into the bottom of the slab...or do slabs cut laterally not tend to bow,,Thank you IAN
I'm hoping you can help me. I bought a beech wood table top online, stained and matte oiled. The seller showed the top at 45 x 24 with metal plates (or battens, about 1/2 width and 22 inches long on the short edge of the table top) about 5 inches in underneath on both ends and one metal batten in the center. My top arrived with only 2 battens instead of 3, with each on the ends. The underside of the table top has a rough area that's uneven, I don't know the proper term and there are some cracks coming from it but only on the underside.
I'm wondering if I should be concerned and return it?
It won't be easy for me to do that, but I don't want to see anything happen to this tabletop after I go through the effort of attaching legs.
Excellent video. I saw a couple of questions like mine, but didn't see a response. For a river table with wide epoxy sections, you don't put threaded inserts into the epoxy. Do you just drill into the wood portion? Does that do the job well enough with 15" or more without a bolt in it? Would you recommend putting the inserts in the epoxy, but make it snug rather than real tight?
Where do you get your inserts? Has your manufacturer changed since COVID?
Hi Cam, can you tell me where you get the Murakoshi bolts from? Very nice video.
Nice video Cam. What is the point of plaining the bottom of the slab? wouldn't keeping that side covered with epoxy help keep the slab flat?
Would you add a c channel if it spans across the epoxy and do you have a video that shows you laying out legs that span over epoxy?
Hi Cam - The holes you’re drilling for the threaded inserts. I assume you’re drilling them as deep as the furniture screw is long, correct? Since the threaded inserts allow the bolt to go completely through? The bolts are about .5” longer than the inserts you linked to. Thanks!
Nice job. Be careful wearing gloves near anything the rotates. The drill press that you are using has enough torque to pull a finger from it's socket if a chip should snag your glove, ouch! Forty plus years in the metal working industry taught me gloves are to be used with extreme caution. Love your videos and want to see you have use all ten of your digits :-)
Green Button Man yeah, good call. I used to wear gloves a lot more. Learning to leave em more now. Thanks for the tip
Great info! Question. When glueing two large slabs (approx 24x110x2) that both need a couple 'bowties' - glue slabs first then work on bow ties? Or do bow ties first, then glue slabs... first timer gluing large slaps...
Thanks!
I’d glue em first
Question! Can I go back and add a c channel after the fact? I built a table and unfortunately did not add or know about it and now the table is cupped, can I flip it over weigh it down and add the c channel to get it back to flat?
I have a question - why do you use threaded inserts and not just screws?
I dont get something.
You crosscut with the router two rather deep channels in oarallel, at a mere 2” from each other.
Then you mount an insert into the top 1” or less.
Once tension rises in the wood, doesnt it just rip a chunk out between the two channels considering wood splits in that dimension pretty easy? I mean its just a two inch long puece where the screw and insert appmies all the pulling force, and the steel if course cant buckle.
Or i could put it differently. If the u-profile is indeed doing its job i would expect the anove dolit happening. If it diesnt split, means theres no cupping intent/ then whats the use of the channel?
Great vid as usual but...Holy Moley Canadian Woodworks! $50 for a 40" c-channel and $65 for a 1/4" plywood jig with 2 slots in it? $12 at HD and I drill my own holes.
Nice!
Love your videos! Wish I could find some C Channel with shorter sides as I can only get 25mm where I am. Just wondering if reinforcing lengthwise is a consideration for longer tables (if I still only want two legs). 2700mm long redwood table at 50mm thick. I'm concerned it will bow in the middle.
Awesome! Do the legs themselves act the same way in helping keep the top flat?
Cam Beckett for sure! On this table I only put two c channels and two legs
Hi Cam. Thanks for all your informative videos. You're truly the best in the biz. Fairly new at this. I recently made a 48 x 24 x 1.25" table with burl and epoxy. It warped lengthwise. Can I clamp the table down flat and insert these bars after the fact or am I wasting my time? If I hold a straight edge lengthwise the middle is about 1/4 " lower.
Thank you
Some pepper have luck with that. I never like trying to make wood do what it doesn’t want to do.
Question. I’m doing a 78” x 36” table with walnut on the sides and epoxy pour down the center. The middle 16” of the table will be epoxy. I want to inlay steel c-channel, but was wondering if you think it’s a bad idea to create a channel in the epoxy for the steel to lay in. Thanks
Na, should be fine
So excuse my ignorance, but why the c-channel? Why doesn't a simple flat bar plate work or why is the c-channel better? It doesn't seem like there are any parts of the c-channel, other than the bottom plate of the c-channel, that are actually anchored to the table. So I'm wondering why the extra work and table mass loss (in theory weakening the overall stability of the table anyway) is worthwhile? Thanks for the videos
C channel is more rigid. Flat can flex
I have granite base with 5/8 in plywood do I need a c channel or can I just bolt legs to to plywood. I do not have a solid wood top
Thanks Cam. Seems like a great low-cost add-on to ensure that a high-quality piece doesn't twist or move and ruin all the work put into it. One question: for the table shown in this video, it looks like the epoxy is not flush to the bottom surface of the table? did you pour with the table upside down, get it an inch thick or so, and then flip it over and finish the top surface only (cheaper, uses less epoxy, but maybe not as stable?), or did you come back and fill the rest of the epoxy voids on the bottom as well (more expensive, uses more epoxy, but stronger)? Perhaps there is no need to pour epoxy 2-3 inches thick if it is never seen from the underside? thanks from Connecticut.
Austin Brown good catch. It was not a river table. Just a narrow crack that I filled for looks. I also added Dutchman joints for strength.
Hi Cam, how many see channels do I need for a 44 x 60” long countertop table
Hi Cam, great videos - thank you. Stupid question - do you not need to worry about the table bending lengthways?
Not really. There’s a calculator to figure out the sag though. Based on wood and thickness
Hey Cam...currently designing a desk top for my new work-from-home desk! I have little experience working with wood and enlisted the help of a good friend with a wood shop. After a short discussion the concepts of "warping" and "c-channel" came up. The size will be about 30" x 60" and probably made from 2-4 pieces of wood. I thought about using 4 pieces of c-channel, each about 24" long...is that overkill? How much c-channel do I need?
Overall, when to use C-channels and when not to? If ima making a small table 1.8 Meters x 0.5 M?
Cam, first many thanks for your videos! Very helpful and clear
I have question about c-channel spacing. I am building a finished size 8' x 42"' x 1 3/8" thick live edge table top. I will be installing 3 c-channels 1, in the center of the 8 ft length. My question is how far from the ends should the other 2 c-channels be located. Your thoughts?
Thanks again!
What C-channel would you use for a 3.5 inch thick slab? its 15 inches wide on the bottom and 19 on the top.
This is great man. Gotta keep those bad boys flat!
The Naked Carpenter thanks man!
The angle that you bought is way stronger than the bent pieces you bought elsewhere. This will actually help keep it flat! :)
Love your work man. Question for you. What size threaded insert and what size bolt are you using to attach the c channel and table legs
I'm making a river dining table with clear epoxy. About 5 inches of epoxy in the middle the yable will be 7ft x 3 1/2ft. Am i in trouble if i dont use c channels?
Probably fine
Hey Cam, love your CZcams channel, awesome work. I have a question on C-channel which you probably get all the time. I’m wrapping up on a quote for a client for a 4ftx30” computer desk with a pair of legs from flowyline. Given the size above do you recommend c-channel? Is it needed in your opinion? I have gotten mixed answers from a few local people and wanted to get your take on it.
What size table do you recommend using C-channel supports? Better yet, would you say anything over 50 inches would need this?
I would say so
@@BlacktailStudio thanks for the response. So 48 inch tables would be fine without the C channel?
I am currently building my first table and your videos are really inspiring and useful. I have a question about c channels. My slab is 56”x32”, it is mesquite. In fact two large slabs have been glued and drilled together. Do I really need to install c channels? I want to try just for the fun and the experience but I am also short in time.
Hard to say for sure, I would probably though
Would you add c channels to a round epoxy slab table? If so, two parallel to leave room for the base mount in the center?
Hey Cam! Getting right to the chase, up or down cut spiral router bits for table legs and supports?
Thanks and keep up the great videos!
I think up cut is what I have
what an incredibly helpful video. I can't find Murakoshi Bolts if my life depended on it. Any suggestions where to look?
I get mine from a local company in person. Any bolt and washer will work fine though.
I bought stainless machine screws for using with my EZLocks. Pan head with hex key for tightening
Hi Cam, Love your videos. The spiral bit that you use isn't it up or down spiral?
Do you guys use c channels solely for wood slabs or would you also use them for river tables/ large wood AND EPOXY builds?
I use em on both
@@BlacktailStudio well if it isn’t the man the myth the legend himself. Thanks my man.
Hello, thank you for video. i have made tabel top (oak) 40inch wide and 80 long, and thikness is 1.5 inch. Dray wood about 8%. Is it crucial to use C channels? And is there any other option to chose instaed of C channel and braedbord to keep tabel top stable. Thank tou in advance
Do I understand correctly that you add c-channel to prevent z-axis warping? Certainly that makes a lot of sense, just want to make sure I haven't missed something else.
Also, this *could* be accomplished by using c-channel as the mounting plate for the legs, yes? If I make my own legs, this appears to be a wise tweak to the usual flat plate.
Thanks!
Yup! Sounds like you got it.
Hey Cam, I'm looking for the link that you have spoken about in the past for the steel inserts and bolts for the C-channel installation? Thanks
What size of table makes you decide to use the c channel? Is it when the table is a certain length or certain width?