Toyota vs Honda Hybrid Cars. Which one is Better? Ultimate Battle of Reliability and Refinement
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- A Mechanic and Hybrid Specialist Compares Toyota VS Honda. So Which one of the two makes a better overall hybrid system?
In this video we do a full comparison between Toyota's hybrid system and Honda's hybrid system.
It is a known fact that Toyota is the undisputed king of hybrid systems but what about Honda?
We'll start by a full comparison between the engine choices, then we look at the transmissions and how different they are.
Then we look at the Braking system, AWD System and the Hybrid battery.
Lastly we talked about some similarities between, Maintenance costs and lastly we draw a conclusion on which one is better.
The cars featured in this video are a 2022 Toyota Camry Hybrid with the 4th generation hybrid system and a 2023 Honda CRV Hybrid.
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0:00 Intro
1:09 Engine
5:57 Transmission
14:21 Brakes
17:46 AWD System
19:16 Hybrid Battery
22:01 Similarities between them
24:44 Maintenance Cost Comparison
27:48 Driving Impressions
29:52 Which one is better? - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I have owned Hondas for over 3 decades and last decade have owned Toyotas. By far, Toyotas ages more gracefully than Hondas. Toyotas also are annoyingly reliable. You will only sell your Toyota if you are bored with the vehicle…not because of quality issues.
By and large parts break-down in both and you have to spend the money on these services. Toyota to me ensures all the parts and systems are top notch whereas Honda does that only on major systems. Honda’s lower systems are designed to break and provide gravy to their shops.
I have only owned, invested, and maintained Toyota and Honda vehicles, over 200K mileage. The power train (stock engine) are very strong and reliable. Your domestic car makers all have engine problems before evening reaching 100k mileage. Crappy shitty imports like Kia and Hyundai , their engines fail at 60K and barely have any power and torque
Same. My family has owned Toyotas and Hondas all my life. I’ve always had civics since highschool. Looking to get my first Toyota Corolla hybrid after watching this channel. Love this guy.
Honda transmission is garbage 🗑️
100% total DIY buzz kill, I know I got 2 Camrys and work on my friends Hondas more than family Toyotas 😂
Your ability to understand and explain mechanical engineering concepts in simple terms is just amazing to me, it's why this is my favorite car channel on youtube by far. Mad respect for all of you master techs out there
😊😊😊
Wtf does master tech even mean? Perhaps you mean someone who has a functional understanding of vehicle electronic systems. In that case then, I must be a god-appointed-tech. I just love these terms ppl come up with to try and point out that someone who claims to be something is actually half-decent at it. I've lost all hope a long time back..
@@HristovRumen you need help!!
@@bolt-212 can you help me? 😆
The way he explained the ecvt transmissions were not just confusing but also wrong. I don't see him deserving a praise in this regard
Car Care Nut, you may be a mechanic by day, but i think you were born for CZcams / making educational videos. Great explanations, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!!
Excellent video Ahmed. Informative, unbiased, no BS, straight to the point. Keep the quality content coming.
As a technician Toyota is the gold standard in hybrid technology no one else especially Hyundai and Kia has never been close to Toyota reliability and longevity and they have perfected their hybrid technology for more than 25 years.
As a Toyota fan and owner, i have huge respect for the japanese sibling. They are both quality cars. I prefer the slight utilitarian dullnes of the Toyota over the Honda techy video game character, but that's just a matter of taste. I'm glad both are still putting out great cars. Now, why anyone would buy a german car over these...
If you have tons of money to keep your BMW, Porsche- Audi and Mercedes on their toes why not, they are very good cars with high standards and very high reselling values, plus its prestige. I think (proper) german car owners buy those cars because of these factors, the way I heard german cars are also reliable but you have to be precise with their maintenance, and have a wallet big enough to keep it up.
@@ezustnyil8414 yes, they are mainly symbolic articulations of prestige. And of course, historically they have had the upper hand when it comes to interactive material quality, driving dynamics and comfort. However, the last generations of Japanese (and Korean) cars have completely diminished those gaps in my opinion. Everything has gotten more generic by all means, but it has become clear that the rest of the car industry can do what the Germans have done, while maintaining higher quality, reliability and longevity.
@@Buffalobulltofta Good in theory but not in reality. VW/Audi, BMW, and Mercedes place a priority on comfort first and then driving dynamics. They achieve it while the Japanese and Koreans make attempts which often miss. It is not a hit or miss with BMW. They hit the targets.
@@jamesmedina2062 they also hit back to the dealer 5 times in the first year of it's life. That's just statistics, in reality. Historically you are right, things have changed the last couple of years however. I've owned a bunch of contemporary BMW's (and even more unfortunate, Audis) and still drive them all the time for work, it gets old. And foremost, they have completely lost their distinction.
@@Buffalobulltofta I agree, but not everyone, the best example is how the car community is divided by their needs, for example many people claim that Lexus's luxury and high end sport cars are less "power" and "practicality" for the money than a porsche or other german high end sport cars, but I believe true luxury and fun is the lower amount of time your cars needs to spend in a dealership. Plus many cars drives differently, as a Japanese car owner I respect their power, I know a BMW or an Audi will accelarate faster or achieve higher speed, but when the corner is coming I know its my turn, all of these cars have their places and their ownder types, only the needs and the amount of money is different.
Your understanding and explanation of these engineering concepts in plain terms is so amazing. Thumbs up 👍🏾 AMD
After driving Fords most of my life, I bought a new 2017 Camry. Loved it! Traded it at 2 years for a new 2019 Camry Hybrid. Beautiful, great gas mileage no issues at all. Kept it 4 years. Got most of my money back when I traded it in after 4 years for the 2023 Toyota Crown Limited with Advanced Technology Package. It only comes in Hybrid. Awesome car! Sits higher than a standard sedan, love this! All the bells and whistles. The package gives me the panoramic camera that I must have for safety. Very smooth ride, smoother than my Camry's and they were great! Today I got 52.6 mpg. Avg is 42 mpg.
Thinking about getting a crown for my dad who has a bad knee. I think it would be easier to slide in and out. His Camry hybrid is too low. The crown is expensive but it’s like a Lexus inside. I like it
But since that car is more expensive than a Camry, you really don’t “save money “ on gas until many years have gone by….
The Toyota Hybrid's eCVT is so dependable that stocking parts for it is practically unheard of.
My car is Toyota, my motorcycle is Honda. Both great Japanese engineering. Very informative content. Thank you all at TCCN TV.
Me also.
now that you mention it, why doesn't toyota have bikes
We thank you Master Mechanic. The Car Care Nut, your video is very exceptional, others CZcams had discussed Toyota Hybrid XLE versus Hybrid Honda, you had gone over how each engine performed. The details are very helpful to the consumers to select the right car for them. This is a great video.
Thank you for the great review. I have watched numerous RAV4 hybrid and CRV reviews. Most of them talk about superficial items. I've always appreciate your mechanical reviews and in-depth clarity on how systems work. Thank you again for all your great help in these reviews and explanations.
I got a 15 Prius with over 120k miles. Zero issues whatsoever. Low maintenance & great mpg. Best thing I like about my Prius is that it's made in Japan.
My cousin has a 2023 CRV Hybrid and it was insane how fuel efficient it was. Of course, it got the best MPG for in town driving and all that, but held its own for long distances too. You can't go wrong with the new Honda hybrids for sure. Has this nice shuttle like sound too and it's super quiet for the most part.
"Shuttle like?"
My cousin bought that car after testing both Rav4 and CRV. He preferred the CRV for the smoother ride
@@aluisious I also thought what the heck is a Shuttle like sound?
@@aluisious Space shuttle for sure
We have a 2019 Honda Indsight Touring. We almost always beat the EPA mileage. It does have a noticeable lag at start, especially since we use eco mode which exaggerates that.
This is the best video I’ve personally seen you put out! Thank you, and BRAVO!
Fantastic work as always! Thank you so much for such a thorough comparison and breaking everything down in detail.
Great explanation on the differences. I own both Toyotas and Hondas and you nailed it. The Toyotas are more reliable but the Hondas are just better to drive and still pretty reliable. At least that's what I tell folks.
I agree with that, I’d also add Hondas in general are nicer looking cars, That new CRV hybrid is a home run for styling IMO
The new Corollas and Yarises drive a lot better, but at a cost of space and practicality.
@@coastalhillbilly3419”nicer looking”?? you got some weird priorities
@@sethtenrec how about not as fugly?
@@coastalhillbilly3419 I’ll keep that in mind next time I want to mount a car on the wall in my living room.
Another great video! I imagine the majority of your viewers own Toyotas and Hondas so it's really great to see how the design/engineering compares overall.
This is a completely different angle to view when comparing these 2 awesome companies. Thank you!
This is the holygrail explanation! CZcams should award this for quality. Owesome!!!
would've liked to see you compare the Hybrid Camry with the Hybrid Accord since they are both mid-sized sedans
As usual , a very professional appraisal of the two vehicles. You certainly know your stuff and provide comment which is very fair to both manufacturers. Very interesting to hear your opinions.
RAV 4 Hybrid 2018 4WD owner here. I swapped from a similar but 2WD RAV 4 to get Vehicle Stability Control and of course 4WD when needed. The 4WD model has 2 electric motors in addition to the 197HP petrol engine. When you floor it for a quick overtake etc, the car takes off like a rocket ! So very impressive. I love the built-in reliability and dependability of Toyota above all else and it would take a mountain to shift my love of this. Thanks for a great video AMD. You managed to explain the complex comparisons so clearly.
You are so good at explaining. Some of it is a little over my head, but I am still able to follow because of your clarity.
Recently purchased a 23 Rav4 Hybrid (Woodland trim!) and am loving the ride. It is very smooth from a stop. The transition to ICE is subtle and I hardly notice it, even as someone who has not had a hybrid before. The AWD system is surprisingly nice. There's ample videos showing how capable it truly is! Your videos helped a lot in making my decision and also showed me the ways to make this a LONG term vehicle
Same boat… and bought the Woodland as well (loved those bronze wheels and trees since the press release came out).
I’ve had both a Honda (first car) and a Toyota. Toyota lasted 16 years, hopefully the woodland lasts at least 12-15 years or longer.
I'd imagine you had to wait for a year to obtain it, and paid over MSRP. Excellent vehicle, though.
@@jayp4114 you would be wrong on both thoughts. I called my first dealership in January and had the car in my driveway mid February. Paid MSRP for it!
Somewhat capable. Some videos showing going up hill in foot of snow and it heavily taxed the awd system, overheating
Thank You for explaining everything in a very simple and fare way. Well done! Love your videos!
Great comparison. It's amazing to me after all the great detailed information you provided here, that comments show so many people still don't completely understand what you explained so clearly.
Watching your videos makes me appreciate the amount of research and development that has gone into these modern hybrid cars. I am due to take delivery of a new Toyota Carolla 1.8 Excel (UK spec) soon and feel very reasured after seeing the technology that has been built into the vehicle.
I'm an Insight owner and I average 47mpg, 470 mile per tank full, 10 gallon tank. I've driven Japanes cars for over 30 years now, I'm hooked on Honda but I do like the Toyotas and I've owned Nissans also. Either way the both are great and you do a great job on your channel.
Just recently made my own comparison between Rav4 Hybrid and CRV Hybrid. And I chose the Rav4. It felt stronger, better acceleration, less road noise and rattling, better feeling seats, better storage space for how I use it. And a real spare tire. And I’m loving the vehicle. 45.3 mpg over 7500 miles of driving. And I’ve owned many Honda vehicles, traded from a HRV. This is my second Toyota, first was 1994.
Very happy with my decision. Thanks for being the best car channel on utube.
Lol. Huge toyota fan.. but, no to your comments when it comes to the rav 4?
But woefully underpowered. Chinese do HEV power delivery so much better
Just purchased a '24 CR-V Sport L (hybrid) after driving the whole segment, including the Korean and American vehicles. Honda drove FAR quieter (used NIOSH app on my smart phone to document cabin noise in both--not close) at all but take off speeds, was more refined inside and out and felt more solidly planted on the road than the RAV4. To boot, it has better availability and thus a lower real world price tag as well, which is huge. There have to be new cars on the lot, not just on factory order, or nobody's having a driving experience at all! Toyota's struggling with that right now, unfortunately.
I understand the compromises/potential vulnerabilities with the Honda transmission (although there were some inaccuracies presented), braking and AWD systems, but I chose to prioritize the every day driving experience over potential maintenance issues in the distant future. If we wanted strictly reliable cars, they would be extremely crude, uncomfortable, unwieldy, unsafe and underpowered. That's not for me. I'll enjoy pleasant driving today and deal with any potential reliability issues (and with Honda, those are not a given by any stretch) when and if they occur. I totally understand a RAV4 purchaser's laser focus on reliability and all things practical, like a donut spare. I wish I could have that cake as well, but I'm too busy over here eating my driving experience cake. 😁
@@chefgav1lol Chinese fanboy
I am a real Honda driver. Drove a honda shuttle for 464000 km. Now a 2007 CRV with already 370000km. My WiFi drives a 2019 CRV hybrid. Love all three of them. ☺️
Contrary to popular belief, both of these systems include a clutch. You can't connect an ICE to the wheels of a vehicle without some fail-safe device in case of catastrophic change in engine speeds. Toyota calls it a "torque damper." It is a clutch that is permanently applied, but "slips" a little when the rpm of the engine, and what it connects to, change inconsistently.
The issue is that this happens more in the Toyota system, than the Honda system, when the engine is started. The Power Split Device in a Toyota tries to maintain the rpm relationship 18*ICE=5*MG1+13*MG2. EV Drive is accomplished by making MG1=-2.6*MG2 (motors can run backwards). To start the ICE, the system simply slows MG1 (or starts it, if the car is at rest). MG2 can't change because it is geared directly to the wheels, so this results in a slip between the Torque Damper's clutch plates.
The Honda system starts the engine using the generator as a motor, when it is not connected to the wheels. So there is no counter-force requiring the torque damper to slip. And the over-drive clutch is only engaged after the engine has reached the same rpm as the overdrive gear, so again there is no slippage. So the Toyota system has potential clutch failures, and the Honda system does not.
czcams.com/video/qaqqs3nKy4g/video.html
czcams.com/video/wzCACoJn-wM/video.html
I bet all Honda owners wish they had a @The Honda Care Nut! I swear, there needs to be one of you for every manufacturer!!!
I have owned a top of the line Odyssey one time. Sold it after 9 years and decided never to buy again. Suspension, brake, wheel bearing, engine mount, expensive run-flat tires, transmission issues and the very low resale value TRAUMATIZED the heck out of me. The engine, though, no doubt is excellent.
Excellent comparison
I work at a Honda dealership and shared this video with all my co-workers
Excellent video! Thanks for this. I have been in the market to replace my 18 year old Honda Element and test drove both the CR-V Hybrid and RAV4 hybrid. Liked them both. Excellent vehicles.
Your videos are very informative and entertaining. Thanks and keep them coming.
I'm really impressed by your knowledge of the different factors that contribute to car dependability. You really know your stuff.
Amazing stuff, simple, to the point and super clear.
Kudos!
I love the way you explain and balance the points. It's really hard to tell which one is better
Swweeeeet. Always happy to watch a comparison video from the car care nut :D
Ahmed can you plss compare both naturally aspirated engine and turbofied engine in one of your next videos id really love to hear it from someone like you since your such an expert in explaining this stuff and i love watching your videos it really feels simple and not thst hard to understand what your saying man!
As always, a high quality review. Always appreciate your knowledge.
I’m not a mechanic or even a car guy, but I love your channel. You do a great job presenting.
This is THE BEST automotive channel in CZcams. Period.
Great to see Honda vs Toyota alive and well. Basically hybrid = Japanese do it better.
I’d personally have a little more confidence in the Toyota system for long term ownership mainly due to their experience but good to see its close.
Toyota 5th generation hybrid sounds like a very mature development to the next level. I remember when you compared the Hyundai system, not impressed with that one.
Great vid. The reduced maintenance in the Toyota hybrid was a perk that I wasn't expecting when I bought my first Lexus ES 300h.
What do you mean by reduced maintenance?
You mean until the hybrid battery needs to be replaced. Then you make up for all that "reduced maintenance".
Replacement occurs well after 100,000 miles. A friend who works at a music store with help from his high school son replaced his gen 2 Prius battery in an afternoon. The rebuilt battery was $2000, including shipping of the replacement and the returned core. Old batteries are too valuable for the landfill.
Excellent analysis of both models! Thank you!
I've had both Hondas Accords and Toyota Camrys and Corollas most of all my driving years. Bottom line, the Toyotas always got better gas mileage, had far fewer repairs and definitely higher resale values. Both were easy to work on and rode very well. I recently test drove the honda CRV Hybrid, and it felt like a better built vehicle than the RAV-4, but much pricer. I think I'm going to just wait until Toyota decides to come back to earth on supply chain issues, and buy another Camry hybrid. Thank you Car Care Nut and may the person trying to impersonate you on this channel get himself removed.
Idk where you are from but the RAV4 hybrid is much more expensive in the US due to insane toyota markups. Honda doesnt markup their vehicles like toyota does.
@@uberefficent3936 Tucson and Phoenix area. Local dealers, on their lot: Honda CR-V Sport 2wd: $34,835.00 msrp. Rav-4 LE 24d: $ 32,560.00 Msrp. Doc fees and taxes extra. Both hybrids.
@@rogy4965 yeah those are the MSRP prices but then u get on their lot and they got markups... they tried selling me a 2022 gas corolla (not even hybrid) for 30k
@@ry1608 i guess its different over there.... in my area every toyota had at least a 4k+ MSRP markup
Same here, my cars and the family's have always been of these two brands. Except the most failures, which were rare anyway, came from Toyotas. The Corolla interior quality was horrendous compared with the Civic (both 2008-2011 or so). The transmission on the second gen RAV4 died with little over 150K miles on it. Interestingly, it was a Toyota made, not Aisin's. 3rd Gen Rav4 presented minor issues with its computer and again with the tranny. One of the CR-Vs presented suspension issues and the other with over 400K miles on it (a 2008) had only an oil leak lmao. Resale value I found it depend on car from car. Some it was Honda, others Toyota. Overall, we simply do not buy other than those two brands.
2 great car companies, but I'm sticking with Toyota on the hybrids.. excellent video!!
I have an 1998 Toyota Camry with 250 000 Miles and a 1990 Honda Lead Scooter with 30 000 Miles I Love them both they both Bild very good engines and vechicles.
You have a fabulous channel. You do a great job of researching and explaining. Thank-you.
I love Hondas man, that is been my main car for my somewhat short time on earth. Ive owned one 4th gen accord MT 270000 miles all stock and 3 6th gen accords, one V6 and 2 4Cyl 5MT, I will always love my Hondas if I havent made it clear, but TOYODA will ALWAYS be king in reliability
I literally watch every one of your videos from beginning to end because I love learning. With that said you still haven’t convinced me to buy a hybrid. For as long as I can I will buy only a gas powered engine. And for as long as I can I will buy only a naturally aspirated engine. I own a 2017 Honda Accord V6 touring and I hope that car last forever. That 3.5 L V6 is the most enjoyable motor I’ve ever had in a vehicle.
I learn so much from your lectures! Thanks Mr. Nut!!
Bro I don't know how I came across you but your videos are excellent. Super informative. I look forward to the 2024 Camry even more after listening to this
Thanks for making these very good informative videos! 👍
I so enjoyed this video presentation of these two automotive giants. The way you explained the systems differences and similarities were carefully and professionally presented which added my understanding. I consider myself much more informed because of your grasp of the mechanical complexities of these companies offerings, your pleasant delivery, and the smooth "Hollywood" quality cinematography. You brought your "A" game as usual my friend. Thank you.
I agree . The DRONE part confused me . Does he mean that the transmission is loud ? I find that the most noise comes from the tires related to types of surfaces. And some wind noise at higher speeds . The engine and exhaust can get loud at higher RPM but, that is to be expected. YOUR THOUGHTS Dan .
AMD, thanks for the very helpful content. I wish you were closer so I could bring my Toyota and Lexus cars to you when I have a serious problem.
As a Aircraft Mechanic , I really appreciate your evaluations and style . Keep these coming and add more vehicles . I really like / wanted this kinda driveline evaluations . Thanks
I have the 2023 CRV sport touring and can categorically state that there is not a few-second delay when accelerating quickly, it is immediate. My experience is the 184 HP electric motor is doing all the initial acceleration, and the gas engine only is spinning the second motor to recharge the battery. The clutch engages the gas motor to drive in certain high-speed and towing situations but not for general acceleration. The gear shifts that are heard are simulated and not the result of the clutch kicking in.
I have the CRV Touring Hybrid as well…the acceleration is immediate and the gas engine kicks in afterward. The vehicle is quite a nice vehicle compared to the RAV4 which is not as comfortable, not as quiet, not as sporty, etc
Thank you for the great explanation on the differences between the two systems. Wonderful presentation.
That was an excellent comparison. Thank you!
Multiple Prius owner here. Check the dates the Honda Insight hit the USA before the Prius, but Prius means first, and it was first in Japan. The Camry gets better mpg than the Honda. The Toyota brakes are just fine and have only one problem that is the scary feeling when braking over sewer caps or railroad tracks. You want weird brakes try a 50s or 60s car with 4 drum brakes w/ or w/o power boost. The Honda droans, too. Who gets the best milage and lasts longest?
mr. Car Care Nut, I've been following all your videos for a long time, it has taught me about engine maintenance & making good car choices. this comparison video has been, by far, my favourite! always wanted to know the mechanical breakdown on both their hybrid systems, Im glad I saw this video!
I've owned a dozen Hondas and a few Toyotas. Both are excellent. I also do all my own mechanical work as well. I find that I find things I love, and things I don't about both of them. Hondas seemed to be more fun to drive than Toyotas. Toyotas tend to be more straightforward than Honda, but Hondas are really well-engineered and they seem to understand that someday someone will be working on it. You can't go wrong with either brand.
I enjoyed every second of your analysis. You are an awesome teacher and presenter 💜
Good analysis from a Master Mechanic. Respect!
Taxi companies local to me are massive Toyota fans not unusual to see one with 400k plus on the clock, Nothing like a Hybrid Toyota for long term reliability.
Taxi cab mechanic here says nothing beats a toyota. They can be a pain to maintain sometimes but man the mileage on the hybrids goes 300k miles easy. No argument here 😂
Even more I see Camry hybrid with 600.000 miles at actions
We have a 2009 Prius it has 340000 miles on it. This car is unbelievable never had anything go wrong with it and still driving it. ❤❤Toyota
Brilliant video! Thank you for posting.
Bought a Hybrid Highlander last year and love it. I was torn between Sienna and Highlander since we are not a big family after watching your Q&As (btw… I miss those vids). Love the 34 MPG and luxury like features and smooth ride. Because of the supply issues, I was willing to try Hyundai Palisade and Acura MDX, it I’m glade I got The Highlander 😊
Luv the Toyota Hybrid system - fewer parts, therefore less to go wrong and maintain...
Even less moving parts in a Tesla
@@pauld3327but they are junk.
@@psynurse Definitely not
Emm cooling system? Special braking system that is much complicated? Batteries that overheat and you need to replace? Where is it better?
Perfect explanations and comparison between those two hybrid system. Many thanks..
Thank you so much for this review !!!! I was in between rav4 and crv. I thought at first like nooo way would I get a hybrid. Now after seeing this video I feel comfortable to go for it because of the perros! Especially since I travel far for week! Best channel on my car search thus far !!
avid fan, seeing this video, as soon as you upload
Great analysis as usual. One thing that I have seen in other reviews. The Toyota (RAV4 vs CRV) is more efficient under load (high speed>70 MPH or going up mountains). At low speeds the Honda may do a little better. This comes from the Toyota transmission keeping the engine at top efficiency.
Hi AMD,
Thank you for this thorough weighing of the differences between the two hybrid systems.
Another ‘reliability’ factor that really plays big time in choosing a vehicle, that IS outside the drivetrain, by absolutely KEY for longevity and cost effectiveness in the ‘northern and Midwest parts of the country. Corrosion resistance. Blessed salt keeps the roadways de-iced, but EATS car body and chassis’s.
I had a 2006 IMA Civic that I loved dearly, but road salt loved the rear wheel wells and rocker panels badly by 2011 (5-6 years). My son’s 2007 Camry has only recently started to show off bad corrosion (15 years).
Thanks for any info you may have about the company’s priorities for quality/build resisting rust!!
A family friend has a 2011 Prius with over 200,000 miles. She has had zero problems, still goes on road trips and fills up every 2 weeks. There was a time when Honda was head to head with Toyota who has jumped ahead with brining out new models, technology, designs, engines etc. Honda hasn’t brought out anything exciting besides refreshing models.
This was so useful and informative! I have a 2020 MDX hybrid - the last year they had the hybrid option. I have been feeling a little guilt6 about the purchase because my husband is a die-hard utilitarian Toyota fan. But the hybrid MDX is just so nice to drive! Speedy and maneuverable for a 3-row SUV, quiet, comfortable, doesn’t have that unpleasant CVT feel. I do notice the transmission lag you mentioned, but we are used to it now. I just hope it’s reliable and lasts a long time. It seems very complicated! I will say that the infotainment isn’t great and I wish there were more old-fashioned buttons for the heat and stereo. Mazda is smart to be keeping those.
FYI, the MDX sport hybrid is not in anyway related to this system and drives completely different compared to this system.
No need to feel bad. It's an awesome vehicle, I have one myself
I have one too. It is a different system than the CRV hybrid described. I don’t experience the transmission lag in sport plus mode which is my primary mode.
I own a 2023 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring....(March 15th/1100 miles on it now) The RAV4 I looked at Apples for Apples was $3-5K more.....I read Car and Driver through and through, and Consumer Reports, and others, and the CRV blew the Rav4 away... My CRV is smooth as silk, no engine noise at all, NO shifting feelings at all, the Adaptive Cruise just Rocks as does Lane Keeping! I run in ECON mode and get 37 Mpg....SPORT mode is unbelievable and the car takes off like a Ferrari, or a Jaguar.... I think electric and engine drive 4 wheels together. The AWD is awesome, as I can make corner turns and not have any issues. In Sport mode the Artificial shifting is great, (thru the speakers) and I feel like Mario Andretti! With Bose Sound, all power seats, other features, above the basic models, I am at $43K.....I couldn't touch the Rav4 for less than $46-49!.....The paddle shifters work great, and I increase my regen breaking often, at 3 levels, and for stopping/charging! The Hybrid in this car is awesome, as it goes in and out all the time, and does not stop at 25mph, and make the engine take over. I have seen hybrid drive at 45mph, at times!....Do NOT like the AC Compressor running from the EV Battery!........Love my CRV!
Hondas are better than Toyota s for sure, but their prices are getting ridiculous. Imagine spending $34,000 for 1.5L T Honda Civic. Where I'm currently living the civic costs $34,000 and this is not an SI, just a normal 1.5L Civic
Goddamm dude chill out its just a Honda crv it's not the second coming of Christ. But glad you're enjoying it
@@ROGG16Gamingthat's insane. They have increased so much in price
@@veroxeon1858talk about an over reaction 🤪
I'm three days into a '21 Accord Hybrid -- did not think I'd like the lane keeping at all, but it's great! Haven't tried the adaptive cruise yet. Still feeling out the paddles... cool for regen and saving the brakes, but weird that I'm in charge of that part of the operation. Reset the trip meter for my commute to and from work today, and I was dead on 40mpg, mostly stop-and-go with a short stretch of highway.
Thank you for explaining everything well, nice job
I learned so much from your presentations thanks to you teaching skills, so thanks for all your efforts and I now look forward to new ones....Javi G.
I often heard about "CVT droning". This is often shown when someone "floors it" to accelerate aggressively during a drive to demonstrate it. The reality is, when you are driving it normally, you'll never notice it since the eCVT will always keep the engine RPMs in the most efficient range. If you floor it, you are asking the vehicle for maximum power, which is achieved at the engine's peak power range (likely in the 4500 RPM range). In a vehicle with a conventional transmission, the gears would allow the engine to get up that speed, but then a shift do the next gear would drop it down to (example) 3000 RPM and the engine has to get back up to 4500 again. An eCVT simply adjusts the ratios so the engine can get to 4500 RPM (very quickly) then adjusts the ratios to keep the engine speed there as the speed increases, maximizing power, acceleration and efficiency. One really nice thing about the eCVT is the smooth driving characteristics if provides. There is no "shifting" so you don't get that "bump" you normally get during a gear change. I have a Toyota Hybrid and love it. It's very fuel efficient and one of the reasons I bought it was the bulletproof reliability they are known for. In the nice weather, my Venza can get high 4s in the city (50 mpg). If you rev the engine really high, it's not the best sounding, but that's not because it isn't a good engine (it is), it's a larger displacement (2.5L) engine that also runs on the Atkinson cycle (at 14:1 compression). It's designed to maximize efficiency, not set lap times at your drag strip (although, it is peppy if you stomp it).
You hit the head on the nail there jeffer! You are 100 % right,I agree,I find it very smooth unless you are really heavy footed,then yes there is a definite drone! If you normally drive with a heavy foot to notice the drone often,you have to question weather it would be beneficial to have a hybrid,not sure that you would gain enough efficiency to pay for the extra cost. Excellent explanation jeffer!
I have never driven a cvt or ecvt
one false thing about the "bump" is that is a manual only thing.
automatics dont have that. most you will notice is a dip in rpm follow by rapid rise.
Even when floored all i hear is the engine going from super quiet to low screams and alot of wind noise.
now if you drive a manual this is very noticeable but only when the clutch is engaged and gear is changing. You will also see the car jerk during gear change.
Automatics are smooth as butter. And only slightly worse mpg than manuals.
Not only are CVTs and eCVTs two totally different things, but eCVTs are three or four totally different things all by themselves. It's a marketing term that doesn't refer to anything in reality except the presence of at least one electric motor. The video explained in some detail that the two "eCVTs" he's looking at aren't even remotely similar in mechanics or driving characteristics. Your experience with your Toyota doesn't tell you anything about either CVTs or the transmissions in other automakers' hybrids.
@@moarsaur Toyota's eCVT is just a planetary gear set. It's the best system out there. I'm not sure who else uses it. It seems to be relatively uncommon but it is the most reliable system. Some other brands use conventional automatics, some use belt or chain driven CVTs, Toyota uses a planetary gear set.
@@jeffer1101 You didn't watch the video, did you?
Thanks for comparing to Honda, I appreciate it! We need your opinion on other brands
THANKS You're really making me feel good about buying my 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid. I got a lot of negative comments about what I got and why I got it but you're presentation said I made the right choice say back then. I still love my Camry Hybrid to this day. thanks!
Thank you so much. You told me what I needed to know, that I didn't even know I had to know.
With no disrespect intended, The Car Care Nut may understand how these cars work mechanically (there are some mistakes), but he does not understand the philosophy of why they do what they do. And I really do mean "no disrespect"; the concepts he gets wrong are prevalent across the internet. And, while I'm not trying to put an opinion forward, Toyota tends to encourage the misunderstandings, while Honda tends to dispel them. And he is Toyota guy, while I am a Honda guy.
Example: There is a Power Control Unit, or PCU, that connects the battery and the two motor-generators (MG1 and MG2). If an MG is acting as a generator while driving, it sends its electricity to the PCU, not the battery. The PCU then decides how much to send to the other MG, acting as a motor. If the generated electricity is not enough, it draws more from the battery. If it is too much, it charges the battery. So when TCCN says (10:25) "you can't have the [Toyota] engine running to charge the battery and then the battery drive the car," he has the concepts wrong. It isn't the battery that drives the car, it is the PCU. The ICE's generated electricity can be split by the PCU to both drive the car, and charge the battery, at the same time. This isn't quite what TCCN said, because he stuck the battery in the middle, but it is the driving mode he was thinking of.
Toyotas can, and do, use that mode. Some displays might not indicate that it is happening, but it does. I once had a long discussion with someone on a forum, where he insisted that it didn't happen because his monitors didn't show it. When he watched the battery's charge rise while no charging was indicated, and he came back to agree with me.
Toyota's planetary gearset is essentially a differential. But instead of taking one input rpm and creating two output rpms that can be different, it takes two different input rpm (the ICE and MG1) to make one output rpm (MG2 and the wheels, which have a direct connection). The difference between the rpm of MG1 and MG2 are used to control the rpm of the ICE, like a CVT. And some of them have two such gearsets.
In its main mode, the power of the ICE is split between the output (connected to both MG2 and the wheels) and MG1 acting as a generator. For this reason, the transmission is called a Power Split Device, or PSD. That electricity is sent to the PCU, which sends the right amount to MG2 to meet the power demands of the car. The difference in the rpm of MG1 and MG2 is used to "continuously vary" the rpm of the ICE. But there are three other modes that are quite different variations of this. Any simplicity of the mechanical side that you think exists, is complicated by the logic governing these modes.
By comparison, the Honda system is mechanically simpler and logically simpler. And not "newerish." It debuted in the 2014 Accord plug-in hybrid, and the only changes since then are tweaks that changed less than Toyota has changed in the same time period. The biggest one was adding the second clutch, but *_only_* in the CR-V.
The ICE is usually connected directly to what Toyota would call MG1, without intervening gears or connecting to anything else. The wheels are usually connected only to MG2, with one intervening gear (the countershaft gear). And then one, or two, clutches with one gear to the same countershaft gear. That's three or four parts beyond the MGs. No matter how complicated you think a clutch is, this is simpler. But I'll get to the clutch operation below.
When the ICE runs, MG1's electricity is sent to the PCU, which powers MG2 whether or not the ICE is on. This is the "eCVT" mode, but a better name is "virtual CVT." Yes, the ratio of engine-to-countershaft rpm varies continuously. But there is no mechanical connection, so it is a meaningless number. To simulate shifts, all it has to do is change ICE RPM and let the PCU divide electricity differently.
The clutch is used for what you would call "overdrive" in a conventional car. It is not ever used for acceleration. And only the CR-V has two clutches; the second is used for towing, not (AFAIK) for low speeds. It is called a "low range" clutch because it is equivalent to shifting into low for towing. Either clutch connects the ICE directly to the countershaft, and MG1 gets is turned off. But MG2 can still act as a generator or motor, so no functionality changes.
And even if the CR-V does use both clutches in normal driving, it won't shift between them. It will shift (seamlessly - see below) out of one into vCVT mode, then shift into the other.
I'll use the Camry and Accord for comparisons, since they are more directly comparable as vehicles. TCCN points out (10:20) that the Accord can only use just the the ICE, or the 181 HP MG2, for propulsion. While technically false, it can only use both when the ICE is in an overdrive gear, so it is mostly true in practice. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT AN ACCORD HYBRID IS LESS POWERFUL THAN A "208 HP" CAMRY HYBRID as TCCN suggests.
Gas cars measure power at the point in the drive train where power is produced. In a conventional gas car, that would mean the ICE's output. In a Toyota hybrid, the HP rating is some "equivalent" power representing what the system can draw from the battery and ICE combined. They probably can produce more, but never do because the drive can't use it. In either case, some of that power is used for pumps, fans, compressors, (alternators in the conventional car), and losses in getting the power from these sources to the wheels.
A common estimate used for gas cars, is that 85% or the power produced can reach the wheels. That could mean (I'm not sure how it is done) the "equivalent" power is based on the 208 HP Camry demonstrating .85*208=177 HP at the wheels. The 181 HP of the Accord's MG2 is already measured at the wheels, and is 4 HP more than the Camry. Since 85% is an estimate, we should really say there is no difference in power that we can determine.
But power also isn't the number to use for estimating how quickly a car can "take off," as TCCN implied. Since POWER=ACCELERATION*SPEED, very little power is needed when "taking off," even under full torque. Both cars will use only MG2 for this, and acceleration is limigt4d by torque. The Accord has much more torque, and so "takes off" quicker. I have found only one test of 0-30 mph (in 2018's, Consumer Reports) to verify this: the Accord took 3.0 seconds while the Camry took 3.3 seconds. At higher speeds the Camry's times do surpass the Accord's, but that is mostly because: (1) The battery is small and can't keep pumping out power at max rate. Since the Camry gets more of its power from the ICE, it does not feel this as much. (2) The "NORMAL" and "ECON" driving modes of the Accord put in an intentional lag, to prevent jack-rabbitting. If testers would use "SPORT" mode, the two cars should closer at high-speed acceleration.
But you will *_never_* experience a lag in engaging the Honda's clutch, or starting its ICE. If MG2 is running on battery power, MG1can start the ICE in the background, and then become a generator. The transition is made entirely in the PCU. To engage the clutch, the ICE rpm will be adjusted to the exact rpm needed, without ceasing to drive MG1 as a generator. Only then will the clutch close, with no slip. Then MG1 will stop generating electricity. There is nothing that could cause a mechanical lag here. Not only that, there is no clutch wear. In almost ten years of this system being on the market, I have heard of no clutch failures.
There is a mechanical lag that is necessary in a Toyota, however minor it may be. It is due to having the devices connected mechanically, unlike the Honda which does not during transition. To start the ICE while the car is running, MG1 has to actually slow down in order to make the ICE start spinning. Then it has to adjust the ICE and MG1 rpm to what is needed. There is also a mechanical lag when MG1 and MG2 exchange roles as motor and generator, which is necessary at higher speeds. I don't know how minor these lags are, but they must exist.
I don't know about valves in the transaxle, but you can see it at czcams.com/video/QLUIExAnNcE/video.html . Just be careful, as he gets some of the usability wrong as well.
I separated this out because I'm going to use some math to describe the workings of the PSD. I'll do it in terms of rpm, but there are similar equations for torque and power. My symbols are:
ICE means the rpm of the ICE. It must be positive.
GEN1 means the rpm of MG1 acting as generator. It can be positive or negative, but "pushes" opposite its spin direction.
MOT1 means the rpm of MG1 acting as motor. It can also be positive or negative, and it pushes with its spin direction.
GEN2 and MOT2, same for MG2. It is also directly related to the speed of the car.
In its normal mode, the PSD makes this relationship hold:
18*ICE = 13*MOT2 - 5*GEN1
MOT2 is fixed by the speed of the car. GEN1 is determined by how much current PCU draws from MG1; that is, how much back-torque it creates. The system varies this current (or back-torque) to pick the "best" rpm for the ICE. It can also vary the power that ICE is producing, so that it can charge the battery while driving instead of sending all of MTG1's power to MG2.
To use EV Drive, it sets GEN1=2.6*MOT2. This will be essentially drawing no current, since the closed valves in the ICE will prevent it from turning, but it costs almost no power to do this with GEN1. This relationship also sets the maximum speed for EV Drive at (Vehicle max Speed)/2.6. I think it originally was 42 mph. Later models change the gearing of MG2 to increase this. "Prime" versions add a sprag clutch (that TCCN says isn't there) to hold ICE at 0 rpm and let MG1 and MG2 both propel the car.
But this mode does not work well at high speeds. So it changes to what some call "Heretical Mode":
18*ICE = 13*GEN2- 5*MOT1
Yes, this reverses the roles of MG1 and MG2. Both ICE and MG1 "push" the PSD forward. Then MG2 draws power from that combination and sends it back, to MG1. Weird.
At 17:10, TCCN says "Something notorious with Toyotas. When you're at very low speeds the transition between region braking into hydraulic braking is always abrupt and you feel it. Also you press the brake at lower speeds it just engages and it like noses the car down."
This is a problem faced by all Hybrids that use what is called "blended braking." That's when the brake-by-wire system is used to blend the effects of friction and regen brakes. The abrupt change happens because regen brakes get weaker as the car slows, and eventually stop. Usually between 5 and 7 mph.
The problem is making the transition smooth. And it becomes more of a problem with bigger motors and/or batties. Almost any review of a hybrid, that mentions brake feel, will criticize "grabby" brakes. The exception is Honda. They have no problem despite have bigger motors - WHICH MEANS *_MORE_* AGGRESSIVE REGEN, NOT LESS - than most other hybrids.
I can't comment on how simple a system is if they put all the same parts in one box, or separate them, but it strikes me that having them separate is simpler since you can address issues with each function separately.
But the interesting thing is that most BEVs don't use blended braking, because their bigger battery makes the problem too severe. So manufacturers decided to rely on releasing the accelerator to apply regen brakes, and pressing the brake pedal to apply friction brakes. That is, to et the driver do the blending. At first this was thought to be weird, but many people liked it enough that it is now called a feature. It is called "one pedal driving."
And finally, people actually understand how the Honda regen works. I can't tell you how often I've heard Tohyota drivers say they drive in "B" mode all the time. Something their owner's manual explicitly says will reduce mpg.
Regen is a clear "win" for Honda.
Car reviews almost universally say that Honda's AWD system works better than Toyota's, simple because it is an "old school" system. That means it can divide the power between front and back much better. It also means that rear-wheel speed can be applied to the front motor for regen.
I am a CRV lover. Mine are both 206 year, with manual. I am very happy with them, 145T & 235T & have been wondering what to buy if they give out and the CRV sounds promising.
Great video as I always expect from you AMD! Only one thing I would change...the comparison should have been between two SUV's not between a sedan and an SUV. Perhaps this Honda CRV vs Toyota RAV4? There would be a difference in ride and driving/handling between a sedan and an SUV. There are differences between a sedan and an SUV in terms of weight and wheelbase, both of which make for differences in handling, acceleration and braking. Keep these great videos coming AMD! I thoroughly them.
Read the title. The comparison is between two different hybrid systems not two different suvs from different companies 😅
Well-done AMD! I don't always listen to AMD discuss Toyotas and Hondas or anything Automotive but when I do my neighbors do too.... loud and proud on my system.
I'm always curious about the reliability issues of the car as a whole and of the subsystems. Infrequently, you do not find a reviewer get into the nuts and bolts and discuss the intricacies of the pros and the cons. Rather they just talk about the styling, the MPGs, performance, the way it drives or this or that. While that certainly has its place nothing can take the place of inside knowledge on the way things work and how they will last for our hard-earned money. Keep 'em coming!
Nice comparison. Thanks for the informative video.
Toyota/Honda is the only car brands I will ever own or recommend people. Toyota generally makes an overall more reliable car. But Honda makes great cars as well. The Type R 2.0 is bullet proof from what I’ve seen.
In general, I owned both and love both brands. Honda (I have had HRV I, CRV II and Civic VII) gasoline engines are bulletproof, but will have some more issues with minor things. Toyota in general is very reliable, I have a Lexus RX400h and despite its 350k kms, it has just NO ISSUES, but I do care about the regular maintenance.
Great review! Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much for this video. I have a 2023 CRV and you made me feel much better about my purchase. Including how I didn’t get the AWD model
I speak from my own experience, I've had several Honda Accords, 1999, 2008, 2013 the only one I didn't have problem on was the 1999 because it was a manual transmission, but it had a chronic defect engine suports broke easily, the 2008 Accord burned engine oil like crazy ,car with 40 k miles consumed a lot of oil ,vtc actuator noisy ,I sold the car so disgusted ,I went for a 2013 ex 4 cylinder ,vtc actuator noisy ,engine oil consumption ,valve cover gasket had to be replaced ,Cvt transmission started jerking at 138k miles ,always maintenance as per manufacturer ,Mobil engine oil every 3~3500 miles ,genuine Honda cvt oil change severely every 30k miles following as per manufacturer always maintenance with genuine Honda products and best oil ,I sold the Accord because I saw that it would give me problems in the future ,I bought a 2020 camry xse I'm sure I won't have problems for many years
I have a 2020 Honda Insight. I drive about 500-700 miles per week for work. Absolutely love it. The two motor hybrid system is amazing. I'll likely get another Honda for work again when this one is 5-6 years old. I currently have almost 70k on it with no issues at all. I really like the new CRV that is being discussed in this video. If they don't make a civic hybrid (to replace the discontinued Insight), then I'll likely get a CRV. I've never owned a Toyota, but I've considered them and may consider one instead of the Honda possibly. Either way, can't go wrong with either system. They both seem to be bulletproof. The Japanese vehicles are so refined and reliable. Great information here from one of the best car technicians on CZcams! Keep up the great work!
I own a 2023 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport Touring....(March 15th/1100 miles on it now) The RAV4 I looked at Apples for Apples was $3-5K more.....I read Car and Driver through and through, and Consumer Reports, and others, and the CRV blew the Rav4 away... My CRV is smooth as silk, no engine noise at all, NO shifting feelings at all, the Adaptive Cruise just Rocks as does Lane Keeping! I run in ECON mode and get 37 Mpg....SPORT mode is unbelievable and the car takes off like a Ferrari, or a Jaguar.... I think electric and engine drive 4 wheels together. The AWD is awesome, as I can make corner turns and not have any issues. In Sport mode the Artificial shifting is great, (thru the speakers) and I feel like Mario Andretti! With Bose Sound, all power seats, other features, above the basic models, I am at $43K.....I couldn't touch the Rav4 for less than $46-49!.....The paddle shifters work great, and I increase my regen breaking often, at 3 levels, and for stopping/charging! The Hybrid in this car is awesome, as it goes in and out all the time, and does not stop at 25mph, and make the engine take over. I have seen hybrid drive at 45mph, at times!....Do NOT like the AC Compressor running from the EV Battery!........Love my CRV!
@@bubbame732 you got a great vehicle. My hybrid has been great. I usually average around 48mpg overall. It's too bad Honda discontinued my model. The CRV looks great in the new body style. Excellent choice!
@@darylhurlbut3473 yes...totally agree....only downer was the rearview mirror did not include Homelink, so I added it afterwards, (pricey) and also didn't realize the mirrors don't fold in. I have some small concerns about AMD mentioning carbon build-up because of the Direct Injection, so I am kicking around using premium gas on this 2.0 liter! Wife has a new Acura (Honda Mfg) MDX "Tech" Model, and gas mileage very poor, (V6) so if they come out with a Hybrid MDX, were gonna switch in a year or so!
@@darylhurlbut3473they discontinued the Insight, but it will be replaced by the civic hybrid which is basically the same car.
@@n9athan I heard that. I'm looking forward to it. I just got a Hyundai Santa Cruz for my personal car, so my Insight wil need to go another 3 more years until 2026. Then I can get a new business car. I'm pretty sure the new Civic Hybrid will be what I get. Hondas are awesome and our nearest dealer is amazing. I watched a video on CZcams and the driver in europe said he was getting the equivalent of 60 mpg. My car is sometimes in that range, but overall im closer to 48. Still pretty good. And still possible that I may get a CRV Hybrid instead of the Civic. Honda just maes some of the best vehicles around. Hopefullly my Santa Cruz is able to pass the test of time. First time buying a Hyundai.....
Good video and great explanation of the two hybrid concepts. I just went for a 2024 Honda Accord hybrid that is only a front wheel drive. No need to worry about transfer cases, prop shafts....
Outstanding educational comparison! Very interesting and helpful!