Soul Survivor [rant] conversation and how we got it so wrong
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 06. 2023
- Ongoing thoughts around Soul Survivor, Mike Pilavachi and how the church has got it so wrong.
Sorry I forgot to grade it and uploaded it in low quality. Rushed it.
For those of us that were up to our eyeballs in Charismatic Evangelicalism we are all complicit. It took being bullied by a narcissistic pastor and not believed by our closest friends to step back and see it for what it is.
But I've experienced this in a non Charismatic Evangelical church so it goes both ways!!
@@CompassionateEyes which is horrific.
@@andsoistopped Yes but I'd like to really challenge this notion that Charismatic Evangelicalism is somehow the issue here. It's people's negative behaviours that is the issue here. I've sat in Anglo Catholic liberal churches that have done much worse but we always focus on what's going wrong in the Charismatic Evangelical church.
@@CompassionateEyes OK fair enough. I don’t think I was saying in my comment that it was an exclusively charismatic evangelical problem. Feel free to challenge away!!! I try not to comment outside of my experience as that would not be appropriate. I would suggest that whilst it’s people’s behaviour that causes problems I believe that the inherently toxic theology found in modern charismatic evangelicalism enables, empowers, perpetuates abuse and creates powerful platforms for narcissists to thrive. As I have very minimal experience of the spaces you describe I would not begin to comment on yours or anyone else’s experience. I’m just mostly sad to hear that this was your experience.
@@andsoistopped Thank you for your gracious response. God bless x
You are fully supported in what you’re doing. As you’ve said here, this topic opens the door to wider conversations about the youth-oriented/targeted movements that have been going on for decades now. Looking back on my own experience of becoming a Christian in the early 2000s there seems to have been an emotional manipulation involved - not that all the staff were aware, or intended it that way - but certain individuals definitely manipulated and took a advantage of others. Funny you mention self help; I’ve been struggling to decide whether it’s Christianity disguised as self help, or self help disguised as Christianity.
I think church has been americanised to become another boomer industry. It's time for change.
What a load of rubbish, so your saying all those years of young people being impacted in many good ways, now was wrong? What was wrong was the sin of as far as we know thus far one man, a sinner like the rest of us who has fallen, like many before and many in the future will do, yes its horrendous for those directly involved but to claim everything about soul survivor over many years is wrong in my view is skewed
I'm not saying that. I'm asking, 'You will know them by their fruit'. What exactly was the fruit?
you are the one talking rubbish. Jesus did not end what God created Jesus ended sin not evil. God created good and evil isaiah 45v7 and they still exist, sin does not. The beast of revelation WAS unbelieving Israel in the 1st C and the mark of the beast WAS the law.
Pillavacci was simply an evil liar. The whole head was sick so it follows that his body SS was also sick.
The fruit was salvation's, healing's, revelation, etc, sadly, it will deeply affect individuals, the wider church and others, with whom we are prayerful over, I can't imagine what they are going through but I am convinced that there was much fruit in all the years soul survivor ran.
@@tonyhughes769 The salvation you claim does not exist anymore since it existed 2000 years ago , it is nothing but wishful thinking and despite you claiming to possess it yourself there is zero proof of it. The only revelation anyone has got from soul survivor is that a man can pretend to be holier than thou and celibate for decades yet in reality be a lying evil bullying sexual psychopath and that people are so undiscerning that they believe the lies. I actually blame the parents who expose their young children to this sort of corruption.
@@user-rs8nu5du1q All the millions of people who have read the biggest selling book of all time, a book that has never been recalled, we must be wrong and you are right then!
Sam did you ever have any crossover with Adam Prior at Soul Survivor? The Mike Pilavachi stuff has made me question some of the interactions I had with staff members at the festivals and I wonder about the wider culture at SS and what else may have happened.
Well said
Please do make this film. So interesting.
Hi Sam, will you be involving voices from people who didn't grow up in church but converted into it in your research? Soul Survivor festivals were a huge part of my early christian experience after converting to Christianity as a teenager. There was a whole evangelistic machine at work that I and others were caught up in as young people with no other church/christian context to compare anything with and parents who had no idea of what was really happening at Soul Survivor or the church youth group I became a christian through (my parents were atheists), particularly with the regard to the 'Toronto blessing'/'holy spirit' stuff.
what's going on at the moment does not invalidate your faith. Jesus still loves you, and will always love you.
@@Epicdude012 I'm no longer a Christian, I deconverted a while ago.
hey - there are people involved who didn't grow up in a church going home. What made the festivals a huge part? I have an understanding of what you mean by evangelistic machine, but what do you mean by it? Thanks
yep, this was my experience too! i went hard in and became a youth worker for a charismatic church. stayed till my mid twenties. It really messed with my life for a long time as I'm queer. living so much more 'to the full' on this side of life.
Keep talking Sam. Someone needs to. I will pray for you.
I was a bit of new church history nerd before I stopped going to church and it's interesting how both new church and the charismatic movement at large had pretty huge controversies that rocked it in 60's/70's . I also think the parachurch movement is also another significant stream that fed into what soul survivor became.
Thanks for watching. You certainly sound an expert! Is that a good thing? ;)
@@SamHowson haha I'm not sure
Preach! I think that sadly unearthing the reality of what is at the heart of this and many other cases is too heavy for some people. Many have trusted in leaders, in organisations that were not about caring and supporting others and that hurts but we can't ignore it. Good luck with your project and thank you for wanting to take time to make something that offers more understanding than just a kneejerk reaction.
that is absolutely it. We want change, not gossip
Interesting comments. I am a Christian of the more conservative variety. I think that the whole mindset of being seeker-sensitive in many denominations, national and local churches is the cause of many, many problems.
Where the thinking comes from to tailor church activities to unbelievers escapes me. That is not a Biblical approach at all really. The gathering of believers is just that; a gathering if believers. We gather to satisfy the instruction of the Scriptures and also for the building up of the saints through teaching, singing and fellowship, etc. It really is pretty straight forward.
Why would anyone think that a body of believers would seek to attract, and satisfy the desires of, unbelievers? We gather together to be built up in the faith and to then go out into the world and reach others with the Gospel.
The whole idea of Christians gathering together has been turned upside down with various consequences. If unbelievers are feeling welcome within local churches then perhaps those churches are doing something wrong.
This will, of course, offend most readers but there you go. 🤨
I think the idea is to be in the world but not of the world. I never got the whole thing about seeker friendly to be honest . But just being true to God and faith and if they like it good, but if not it’s no biggie. Unless Churches are true to Faith there is no point, we might as well become a secular music club.
I completely agree with you @justmoseying. The biblical model is that church is for the believers, we are equipped and built up in our faith and then go out to evangelise and spread the gospel. If you try and make the church gathering itself something that is appealing to unbelievers you end up not feeding the flock properly and they aren't built up strongly in the faith, thereby meaning everything becomes very wishy washy!!
...funnily enough i came to SSW in 2019 because i was leaving a church that was too seeker friendly... 🙂 I have known about SSW for years though...
Just want to say i support fully what you are doing and totally agree the issue is much greater than soul survivor, it is endemic within the charismatic movement as a whole. The more I research for my own writing the more i see the patterns. Keep it up dude.
Thank you
I'm from the South Buckinghamshire area (Amersham), and when I was a teenager in the mid-2000s, several friends my age went to Soul Survivor. I am not religious myself but there was a trend in my school and others in the area of born-again Christian teenagers. I don't really know what their experiences were exactly but it's interesting to hear all this stuff only just coming to light now we're all adults
I was heavily involved with Soul Survivor back in 1999 to 2005. I ditched Christianity a few years after, but just heard about this, so done substantial googling out of interest and quizzed old friends. My conclusion is there's a lot of bedwetting over nothing, hence why nothing substantiated by police. Salacious stories, driven by voices heavy on bitterness and light on details. Should it go further, let the courts decide. The pivotal issue is what was considered banter back in 2003, is denoted abuse today. Actually hasn't the word 'banter' now been outlawed? I was lucky to grow up in a freer world, where you could mess about as teenagers, watch WWF and tombstone one another. Arm wrestle youth-workers and shave your body/head for charity. Though I fear even I'm beginning to wonder whether it was all abuse? Different times people. Different times.
Amen Go to.Hell.Pilavachi and Soul Survivor
and New Wine infiltrators too..but somehow they will.never go
..praying that you will do this...
Both Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8 declare that God is the same always and never ever changes. He is always good, always loving, always all-powerful. No matter how this world changes around us, we can trust God is consistent. He is the same yesterday, today, and Forever! Look to Jesus not man
The only way ! Man will fail and fall. Nothing Man does will prosper. Only God can do the impossible and Save mankind from themselves.
If I left the faith I’d have to give back all that I’d been given by God. My wife / children / house / car / job. I’d have to give it all back. Because all that I have was given by him who gave it all to me. 😢
The church should follow . The Bible not culture. Our culture is not that great anymore.
I have no clue how to comment. My experience wasn’t physical. I have spent the last few years thinking about how leadership was the goal. Anyone can get to the first level, very little is offered to go further. Those who are on the way will drop you with no help no matter how delicately you ask.
Well there you go. If leadership was the goal, you got it wrong. The goal is run after jesus and if that's means you up end leading fantastic. Too many young people get their egos knocked and told they aren't leaders then turn around and blame the church. There is a great judgement coming to the church but please don't label us all with same sticky brush.
I think the home church in the 90's was a real spiritual awakening and there was a move of the spirit in general, but then it became too formulaic and then room for God got pushed out, now the big events seem to be more about having fun with a couple of meetings put in for good measure, the real excitement has been lost, as we seem to pump out the same formula expecting God to do his thing.
With things like this there is a real reluctance to admit wrong doings incase it gets out and damages the churches reputation, but then when it does come out its an even bigger problem, The church needs to be more open that humans are flawed and will make mistakes and to shift the focus away from Christianity being about the relationship between other Christians or pastors and big names but back to being God focused and almost make a deliberate point that humans are flawed and will let you down so don't make your faith reliant on people.
🤣🤣🤣 "massage anyone??" 💪
Maybe take a step back? These issues are being experienced across Christianity within the Mormon Church, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Evangelicals. The powers that be protect themselves over victims. Spiritual abuse needs to become recognised. You will likely find your sources from those that have left these organisations, as those still in are often living within the coercion and cannot see it.
My ask after hearing you is yes where is Jesus. I’ve not seen or heard Jesus for ages and actually miss him.
Jesus hasn’t gone anywhere. He’s available to you - just ask.
How completely wrong you are. I have experienced nothing but healing and God’s goodness at Soul Survivor between 2008 and 2023
I like how you touch on complacency and hypocrisy. I suppose the fear of being held accountable before God of being omitted for the sake of a specific "church" culture!. I am intrigued by your videos... I want to see where it goes. 🤔
thank you
I never trusted SS as I find the whole evangelical charismatic culture way too manipulative. Thank you for speaking up so courageously about a culture you grew up in. That must be so hard especially faced with the cowardice of so many "leaders" in the church. God bless you 🙏
I love what you are doing here
thank you
Great to listen to this
Church has moved on - you need to look beyond the Church of England. Jesus is alive and well and a remnant is rising. There is a lot of good new music/ worship and where the Holy Spirit is invited there is life. The key is - where the Holy Spirit is invited.
Read books such as ‘The spiritual warriors guide to defeating Jezebel’ by Jennifer LeClaire and ‘Wild Ones’ by Nate Johnston. Pilavacci is a narcissist (Jezebel spirit) where the leaders are led by this spirit the Holy Spirit is not welcome. Jezebel - whilst appearing ‘godly’ is an antichrist spirit. People need educating in this.
Jennifer LeClaire and her sneeky squid spirit !! LOL !!
czcams.com/video/KqsawOncBLo/video.htmlsi=DlR9xLUeK5ahwFIG
Yes, we have been hypocrites because we have forgotten that Acts and 1 Timothy 3 give instruction on how to do church and how to set up leadership. As you say a lot of Evangelical Churches have stopped evolving to serve their changing local communities over the years. We did not stop and re-evaluate our activities during the pandemic and we are now busy but irrelevant and we are not growing in our spiritual walks because we expect the leaders to do local mission, teach our children for us and make the right decisions on our behalf without our thinking they need our prayers and input and action! We should be the body of Christ! That's where it's gone wrong! Return to an Early Church model and serve your community as Christ in word AND deed! Keep each other accountable! Discipline the backsliders and expound the immoral brother because we are told to! Choose your leaders wisely!
It's funny - we really don't have to reinvent the wheel - but this one seems a lot less circular shaped!
Hi Sam, it seems that things have been out of focus within the evangelical and charismatic youth community. Big Eva, as it has been called, has distorted and derailed lives through false notions of success and development, with Christian celebrity culture.There has been a lack of integrity, honesty, transparency, accountability and genuine spirituality in leadership.
💯
So interesting
stop touching your face
stop touching yours!