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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2021
- Dave repairs his pesky Kindle Paperwhite with touch screen and charging issues.
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#Repair #Kindle - Věda a technologie
As a former Lab126 Engineer (albeit 8 years ago), I worked (as the Test Engineer and TPM) on several of the kindles. The I2C on the battery pack is called the battery gas gauge. The gas gauge constantly monitors the battery voltage current and temperature and by using a complex algorithm it predicts the battery life. I did not recognize the other chip, but I suspect that they might have integrated the battery charger from the PMIC. The metal lined plastic enclosure helps in mitigating the swelling of the LiPo battery when they fails (it produces hydrogen gas). The RF ID is synced to the Software S/N of the device. This is useful in the factory as well as for reverse logistics, especially for field returns where the S/N cannot be retrieved because the device is dead.
There’s also a discharge FET which prevents battery discharge after voltage falls below the dead battery threshold. This FET might have opened when you disconnected the battery, and then it got closed once you applied the test voltage from the meter. That could explain why you first saw an open circuit but then saw the battery voltage present.
hey can we repair LED of standard kindle 10th gen.
I am assuming you are referring to the back light? If so, the back light is an integral part of the display and consist of several LEDs. The LEDs are not replaceable. if the back light is completely out, it may need a simple reseating of the ribbon cable connection. @@DESWALANUJ
I must admit that the dubbed part was as good as any other video you have ever published. Best regards!
"Chasing a red herring down a rabbit hole"
Australian wildlife must be even weirder than I have thus far been informed
Weird is just another day in the office for Australian wildlife
I think thats a Alice In Wonderland quote
Thank you for being part of the repair community.
I've "fixed" many Kindles that were given to me as dead and all they really needed was a good long charge. When the batteries get too low they typically need to charge a good 12 hours to become responsive.
Agreed. I owned a shop that bought and sold used electronics so I had a lot of Kindles that hadn't been used in months or years. They need to charge an annoyingly long time, and once they're up and connected the automatic software updates will cause exactly the sort of lock-up experience he had at 17:00. There's just no feedback letting you know that it's about to update.
For some of these things I'd tell customers to take it back home, charge it overnight, then connect it to network for a few hours, THEN bring it to trade in.
That serialized battery is insane. I don't know why they'd bother. It's not like there's big money in OEM batteries for inexpensive ebook readers.
I had the same with my Samsung GALAXY A6.
@@TooLazyToFail Maybe a legal thing? Like Amazon can point at that when somebody tries to sue after burning their house down with a Shenzhen special lipo they dented on the installation.
@@TooLazyToFail hi I have a kindle paper white It wasn’t charging but I bought a new cable for it and it’s still not charging any advice would be great please
@@TooLazyToFail If the kindle refuses to work because battery is dead, Amazon can sell a new kindle, or the charge for battery replacement could be insanely high.
You need a big clive explosion containment pie dish.
rfid - remotely confident it's primarily for the 'assign this device to my account' button when you buy the thing - they can grab a random one off the shelf, (with a robot), put it down the line and scan to associate it with the specific order without opening the packaging.
@@GrandDiego RFID chip likely has the serial number among the information stored on it - you can get kindles direct from amazon directly connected to your account - they associate and when the kindle is first connected to the internet it will then link to your account.
That’s clever, like the thinking there
@@GrandDiego While that's true - they need a way for the logistics system to identify which kindle you got at time of order since it's already sealed in the packaging. It can be done with a barcode on the box, but then how do you identify which SN truly went into each box. This streamlines the process making so that the box isn't tracked, the hardware is. The first time the kindle sees internet and phones home, the server will already know which account it is tied to.
Yep, that's correct. Worked on kindles in the past. Part of the whole "magic" aspect of the kindle experience Bezos wanted.
I mean, they also have a S/N barcode on the outside of the packaging, if I remember correctly. But yeah that could certainly be part of it.
Dave: "There's probably something wrong with the charger"
Also Dave: "...and then I left it charging unattended at 460mA for quite a while..."
Efficiency only matched by proficiency in video editing.
Great video and demonstration of dissecting a multi-symptom problem and tackling it system-by-system!
As someone from Minnesota USA (and who just worked on a kindle) I was glad to see you reading about Minnesota frontier times and the lamps they used.
"Its to thick, it won't fit" .. lmao
That's what she said.
Quoth porn parody Johnny Cockran.
💯 %tOO* pHaT; i’M tHe MaD pHatTeR.
I was just watching your first teardown of it yesterday while desoldering the metal shields off of mine and now you upload this. so cool haha
Hearing Dave everytime, helps me overcome the anxiety of having high pitched voice. voice isnt a barrier.
Having a good mic and knowing how not to over-modulate are keys to maximizing talent.
Nice fix, Dave. Still using my Paperwhite after 7 years, same model as yours - good to know the battery is 'repairable' in case it goes up the swannee.
Great fix mate ! Persevered with it, anyone else would throw it in the skip !! Well done !!
when your kindle dies charge it overnight. That's the golden rule
12:00 The protection board locked up after you removed the dead battery. It activated the low voltage protection. To unlock it, just give it a charge. May be your multimeter just gave it a voltage to do the unlock.
Watching you at 2x... I wish my kindle screen refreshed that quickly! :)
Glad to see you have some Richard Rhodes on there - his books are extremely readable and he really knows his subject.
Really enjoyed your trouble shooting process. More repair video pls
Hi Dave. The "problem" with the battery is known from 20 years. Same problem was in old GSM phones. When you try to replace the internal element battery not give power anymore. Usually if you keep under power the circuit board and replace the element in "hot" condition everything will be ok and Kindle will not "understand" that you change the element.
I had one but it was stolen few years back, as I recall the interface was a bit sluggish but personally didn't have any lock-up issues
Great fix! I almost missed it since CZcams, yet AGAIN, unsubscribed me from your channel
I've seen the older kindles take literally hours to recover from a very dead battery. worst case, i had one charge for 8 hours before it would change or respond at all. i called customer service, and they told me the kindle is "doing something" with the battery during this time. my guess was that it was running a long test on the battery
Before using such a force to get a battery unglued, try some isopropanol (let it suck for some minutes) to etch or dissolve the glue. Often works like a charm, never tried with a kindle though.
Fixed mine a couple of years ago. Had a non working touchscreen. In my case it was the little c5 cap by the touch controller on the flex cable that was shorted. Just removed it and it works great since. If anything the touch is a little too sensitive now.
Nice to see the work on the battery. I hit a laptop battery I tried to "re-cell" (replacing the 18650 cells), but it still refused to work with the laptop as the laptop gave the "bad battery" error. I suspect I had to reset some flag/bit inside the chip somehow, in order for the computer to accept the refurbished battery with new fresh cells in it.
I don't think it's the touch screen hanging up. I think it's the "computer" inside that is crashing. It could be due to the crazy voltage issue. I think if it keeps doing it then you can chalk it up to you getting all the good out of it.
Gave me a spook at 9:25 for a split-second! I thought the underside of the battery was the e-ink display but broken, because the middle glue rectangle looked like that "battery dead" screen :P
I 3d printed a battery connector for mine so I could use a charger to test the capacity of the battery. I thought the capacity was dropping but it was still well within rated values.
There might be a bad capacitor on the charging area and/or the capacitive touchscreen area that's generating noise, something like that happened to me with a trashy low-end Alcatel smartphone.
I have worked with this 12c interfere with laptop batteries. As a learning experience it was really amazing to see how they put things together to get it working.that's is they are pain in arse to repair.internal charge controller shuts down the battery in case of battery (cell) reset/remove.best way is to reset controller IC if you have a luck to get datasheet.
Remember when you did an attempted power line hack using an oscope and a semi decent safe lock? Man I loved that video. I must’ve watched it 10 times and I’ve learned so much from that video.
Plz consider breaking out the oscope again. Nothing better than seeing a pro use one in not-a-tutorial-but-is setting.
thank you very much you have helped me to repair my kindle God bless you
@12:00 a lot of lithium charge controllers don’t turn on the battery until after it has had power applied to it first.
Some laptop manufacturers in they OEM batteries put in BMS chips, that remember battery statuss.. If one cell are damaged, BMS chip turns off battery and report fault.. Even when replacing all cells with new ones, this chip continues to report a fault because it's locked himself in that state.. Only way to reset this status is special service device.. I get in this trap one time.. 😂
In this case, looks like chip remembered his last status about battery's issues and it needs full charge and discharge to save new battery data.. At least, it didn't lock, needed only reteaching and is very repair friendly.. 👍
Thanks, Dave, for video!
I had this problem with replacing the batteries in my Dyson stick vac. The cells were OK, but the BMS decided they weren't, so it refused to charge them. Couldn't replace just the cells, so had to replace the whole battery pack.
Yeah.. A lot of battery packs require having the BMS powered while swapping out cells. Doesn't make it easy..
Plenty of people have had this happen to their Makita cordless power tool batteries.
Just a note: Paperwhite 11 does not have an adhesive front bevel. It has a snap on back. (You still pry from the front, but down not in)
About 4yrs ago, I worked at a large IC manufacturer that provided the custom PMIC for many of the Kindles. I was the expert Product Definer / Apps support for two custom 255-pin PMICs for the Kindles. The two chips were optimized for two generations of the SOC. The engineers at Amazon knew me pretty well. I'm not sure if your Kindle model has the chip I worked on or uses a competitor's solution. But it looks very much like one of the models that utilized one of these two chips. Anyway, regardless of the supply of the fuel gauge, the algorithm is complex and utilizes the history of battery state, voltage, current, temperature, etc. So, it takes the fuel gauge some time to recover if a new battery is attached. I think that is why the screen indicated a depleated battery while it was accepting charge and while it was actually closer to 50% capacity. Anyway, you got it to recover, so that's good. Also, if the new battery is far less capacity, it will likely tell you that the battery needs to be replaced due to having lost much of its capacity. The fuel gauge can detect battery aging. How Amazon uses that, I'm not sure.
If they still do it like they did when I watched some notebook assembly, additional screws are not much more expensive, they ahve a jig where the screw in all at once, adding a few more just adds a bit setup cost
Thanks it worked after getting stuck on the home screen after a long time somehow..
Brought one of these myself about a year ago just to use for reference PDFs.
Anyways, I've noticed that when battery has been low for a while it needs to be charged for a while before it will switch on properly, otherwise appears to act intermittently faulty, as do a few other devices in my experience. Or maybe its just my bad luck with consumer electronics 😂
I had an early one. It broke, wouldn't charge and it was so obviously made as cheap as possible there was no way to get it open without destroying it. I have the paperwhite so I'm interested on what this one is like.
Looks much better than the one I had!
I hope you had a good time with your Kindle!
But next time... Maybe a Kobo? ;)
Everyone : "you cant really fix things like this, the company made sure to give everone trying a very hard time ... just ... buy a new one i guess"
THE DAVE : "HOLD MY BEER"
I have a pre-touchscreen paperwihte that I use as my backup Kindle. It's fine but it was a (third) replacement for the same models and I've had similar issues where features just stop, or it won't turn on properly, then it goes through a few reboots, then works fine and then occasionally would do it again. I guessed it was some sort of processor issue or software then.
I love this stuff!
I've bought a kindle (its a Kindle Touch, so 4th Gen) years ago from ebay for a couple of bucks. The seller said that it will not retain a charge. Ya easy fix I thought.
When I got it I just hooked it on the charger and forgot about it until 2 days later. Battery was full, it worked and well ya the battery is not the best anymore but I can get through a couple of hundred pages or leave it for 2 month until the battery is empty.
I don't know how that is comparable with a new and fresh battery but it works for me :D
Maybe they use a metal backing for heat dissipation? Maybe shielding?
It is also for an added bit of puncture resistance...like is something sharp was dropped on it, it it on something else. Maybe even as simple as shoving this into a business bag or briefcase, not knowing that there is a loose thumbtack.
Some smart batteries have a feature if you remove the cells it locks you out from the fuel gauge chip
I recently attempted to fix a sat nav that appeared to have a duff li-ion cell, it would power on but the cell voltage would quickly drop and it would shut down. The pouch cell had one of those tiny protection boards but had three wires with an unusual connector so I carefully removed it and solder in a new cell. Behaviour was exactly the same, the problem turned out to be the dual MOSFET device (a common Chinese part) on the protection board that had developed significant on resistance despite the gate drive looking fine. Got a bunch of new MOSFETs for pennies on eBay, replaced it and it's working fine. First time I've seen a MOSFET fail like that.
Was looking to get a new e-reader soon. Too bad Amazon basically has a monopoly on them. Would pay more for a better engineered Japanese product for sure.
Edit: Kobo is alright, I suppose
Bookeen is also a serious option.
Well that upsell happened in a hurry.
Great video mate. 👍
I hope someone does your voice dubbed over the parrot in Aladdin 😁
Helpful video. I liked it
Because you replaced the cell, the battery processor needed to recalibrate the capacity by waiting until 4.2v before it indicated full charge.
Possible.
Theoretically you could just get rid of the shell and use a bigger battery. I had a Sony E-Book Reader and used an Aliexpress battery with the original Sony BMS. It was like 6 weeks since I last charged it and I still have like 40% battery there
I wonder if it the battery voltage was dipping just enough to cause instability. Would explain the lockup just after using the new battery too (assuming it was only slightly charged).
"Kindle keyboard" version 2013 had almost the same problems it charged but would crash in a day or so.
I replaced the battery
Went through the long winded many versions of update path to get the latest version
If I leave a few days it crashed and it takes ages of inserting and removing the charging cable until the yellow LED stays on for longer.
Workaround to stop it crashing was every 2 days insert the charger until the yellow LED showed and unplug (takes about 10 seconds)
I have kept it alive for the past 2 months.
I can't help thinking there is a "time to fail mode" built into the device
All the best for 2021
Sometimes using a device while charging can affect the touchscreen..not that that's related to this video lol ..but great tip on changing a kindle battery cheaply! 👍
"Nah! It's good enough for Australia" Ma' man!
Luv it looks just like one of my days
Still use my 2nd Gen Kindle! Grandfathered free Whispernet and everything
read the title as Kindle Paperweight!...sounds legit! :P
Yep, also considering how I found Kindle e-readers to be harder to repair than Kobo e-readers, at least when it comes to replacing the display.
i read the same !!
I wish they would standardize these batteries to a few sizes.
Nokia has a few standardised batteries that they use for all their cheap phones, and some cheap Chinese battery-powered items use them too
You wish they would give up their monopoly on replacement batteries? This is another sickening example of a device that holds your device hostage unless you buy their ridiculously overpriced replacements. They actually have hardware and software there to make the device NOT work, on purpose. I'd throw that thing into the e-waste pile where they all belong.
Battery protection/BMS ICs often come with a shipping mode that turns off the protection mosfet until a charger is connected or some other condition is met. Probing the gate in ohms mode could've been enough to enable it.
Yep, plausible.
They have also been tracking these RFID tags after purchase. Every time you go past a scanner it tracks your movements. A big box will sell you something with this hidden tag and able to ID you personally with all the other information. They use these tags to follow you around the store and each time you enter. I look for and remove these out of the stuff I own which means most times taking it apart.
That's all well and good, but Amazon can't track you with the RFID tag as they don't have any physical stores (outside of a handful of concept stores in the USA)
Wow ! Any tangible proof of that? Because it awfully sounds like batshit speculation of a conspiracy fanboy.
I have a weird experience with my kindle. About 6 months back the battery started draining way too fast. I'll take it off 100% and in a couple minutes of idle it would get to 80% and would drain completely in a day. Was sure the battery would fail soon so opened the kindle to take pics of the battery to see if I can get a replacement locally, since there is no official service available.
Anyways after taking pics I decided to re connect the battery to use till I could get new ones but then the battery started to hold charge again. For the past three months I have been using it atleast a couple hours every other day and it is pretty much as good as new.
Have no idea why or how this happened but I am so glad especially now after learning that the battery is ID locked by Amazon.
What do you mean by ID locked?
Lucky for you the battery hardware or Kindle did not lock you out detecting something weird was going on.
I think there is a failing decoupling or main regulator cap issue with this kindle. If you think about the current strain graph for this low power device, there is high draw impulse spikes and the ceramic caps in it are aging earlier than desired period. This leads to clock line stability issues in the processor where in there is data mismatch and is interpretted as software glitch. I experienced something similar while working on a freesclae mcu long time back. Thought i was not resetting the wdt properly but is actually due to power ripple due to faulty caps.
You've got to look after these older Kindles - they're so much better than the recent ones.
I dont know why but the first part reminded me of an Uncle Arthur skit.
IKR! Just like Uncle Arthur!
@@stuartwilson4960 well which is it, Arthur or Aurhor?
@@HighestRank yeah, good pickup! 🤣
I had same problem , left it on charge over night and bang , turned on after.
The self destruct bit was set.
Hi Dave, would the battery have metal sides to act as a heatsink when charging the battery?
So Amazon takes a page from crApple's book regarding the battery. Harumph.
Amazon does that at least for 10 years since the Kindle 4 has the same issue.
Apple, Google, Fitbit, and Amazon chances are very likely that 50% of the employees have worked for at least two of them if not three.
Damn, I changed my battery and the LED strip has never worked since :D I was hoping you'd go deeper into the thing.
Love the way you vascilate between chicken dinner and apparent total failure. Cool battery hack, how dare they make a proprietary battery lock, but you even got around that,,,,why no Fluke 87V??
have lots of repairs like that. battery totally dead or full voltage no ma to fire up the unit ect. i use a lot of test cells to rule other problem out.
4:52 Oh ho, Im way to familiar with this bms circuit...
Really want to use the screens of old Kindles for projects, but I couldn't find an off-the-shelf display board.
sneaky how clever design & planned obsolescence is used to stop affordable aftermarket parts & repair
I'm surprised to see you posting this video, seeing that at least with display assembly replacements, I've found Kindle e-readers to be harder to repair than Kobo e-readers.
(16:23) I forgot that older versions of the Kindle e-reader firmware don't show percentage of state of charge in the status bar!
Yeah if I had to buy a new ereader, I won't chose a Kindle at all. Too proprietary, forced to use some hacks just to read basic epub and cbz formats. Also the battery thing is really an annoyance and I don't get the "feature" that doesn't allow to make a proper extinction of the device.
If only epaper screens weren't so expensive, we could get very nice tablets running a mainline Linux stack.
@@PainterVierax
I agree. With the battery thing, Kobo doesn't put an ID chip on their batteries, and some of their e-reader models can even run off USB power, but then my Glo HD I tested that on thinks the battery is present and charging, but the voltage floats and the battery percentage jumps randomly, so I would only do that for testing.
I only had a Kindle e-reader back in 2014, when Kobo's UXs (on both their e-readers and tablet apps) used to be very convoluted and hard for me to navigate. Kobo's modern UXs (starting with the current reading UI first introduced in late 2019) are way better and easier to navigate.
Also, about that last bit, that's very similar to what I've been working on since 2017! Paper tablets (e-notes) and e-readers with a mainline Linux stack (with desktop Linux components) that would be as open-source as possible! (The original idea I had in 2017 was very different and worse, though)
I'm still working on the design of the UX, though, as I have to keep refining it to not end up like the first few iterations of Kobo's e-reader UXs in which they were hard for me to navigate.
@@kbhasi for the UI of your project, you really need to take account of the specificity of epaper : even a blinking text cursor on a tty should be avoided.
Do you have some dev blog about it?
@@PainterVierax
Nope, there'd be a splash screen and straight to GUI by default. I may end up finding some people to help develop some kind of custom text-mode framebuffer, but that would have a static underscore or inverted character instead of anything blinking, for example, and if I end up using 'systemd', I'd replace its bouncing * (e.g. 'A stop job is running for …') with a static one or a … (ellipsis) symbol.
Almost all of my development is private, since I'm developing a lot of stuff around that which I want to keep as secrets. I actually have a whole master plan and huge dreams for this and what it could be.
@@kbhasi Nice ideas, you really though about details :)
No worries for the dev, I can't blame you as I keep my art porfolio offline on purpose because most people act like everything online is public domain by not even respecting paternity clauses of liberal licenses.
My local public library does a great job of stocking new books - I'm still happy to read printed paper - no battery nor software issues. Still waiting for inexpensive computer displays that can show me a classical broadsheet newspaper image with readable text. Sometimes the new tech just isn't yet up to the task of substituting for the old tried-and-true methods. God bless Johannes Gutenberg.
i also find it interesting that the back plastic is machined..
the high number of screws is to make it more rigid and there are custom factory screwdrivers that can drive all those screws at once. open an ipad and you'll understand why those break easier
Fewer screws?
@@HighestRank ipads are made as cheap as possible on the inside and don't have anywhere near the rigidity because of that. It mostly relies on the strength of the back piece of aluminum.
5:35 To keep the life of a lithium battery that is below 3V when you charge it you charge with 0.01C until the voltage hits 3V, first at that point can put full charge on it. Otherwise there was something that happened chemically that was might have been plating and I have always done so and it have always give the best life.
nice catch:)
For some reason the voice over reminded me of "uncle Arthur" 😂
Same!
Hi Dave! I've had something similar happen to me with a couple of phones. Not Kindles but same kind of issue. The battery was going out the door, it started to bulge and that created pressure on the display. The pressure then made the display flex and the strain made it unresponsive to touch. I think the same thing happened here. And also why the problem persisted with the replacement battery that was slightly thicker. If it happens again, try to find a thinner battery and see if that doesn't change anything. :)
What are those fine pins mounted on the arms called? Those seem super useful
"Battery invalid .... BASTARDS!!!!" :D ... I've LOLed... :)
Noticed screen only worked reliably when power connected. Perhaps low system voltage is causing screen issues.
If a fault appears, a TP4056 chip will disable the output mosfets.
You need to plug it in and charge it for a second, and let the controller reset the output mosfets.
I imagine you had the same problem. Maybe you didn't use it for a long time and the cell inside went critically low.
If you charge it over night, it should be good to go. Although, it lost a lot of capacity dying like that.
The metal backing of the battery likely serves multiple purposes. Some people have mentioned heat dissipation, which is likely one purpose but I don't think it's the primary one. It's not a high power draw device, nor does it charge at a fast rate (500mah as as per video).
I think the primary purpose is safety. You noticed they milled the already very thin plastic casing to fit the battery. I think the metal plate acts as a barrier to protect the battery from being punctured.
The device is meant to be mobile, placed in backpacks, on tables, in beds, bags, jacket pockets etc etc. A thin layer of plastic just isn't going to cut it and is a MAJOR fire hazard. I'm not sure of type of metal but it looked ridged enough that it would not be easily punctured and would stop most things (pens, keys etc) that may get through the thin plastic back of the Kindle.
I found a kindle d01100 (awful to take apart because of adhesive) and also stuck at the charge logo. What I did is take it apart and disconnect the battery. After a minute reconnected the battery and charge it. Tada! Working again. I quess it has something to with the firmware at boot and with too low batt it get stuck at some point.
Modern tech voodoo, I found a #5 twatting hammer is efficacious. Doesn't fix em but you feel a whole lot better. Books on the other hand work every time, unless they catch fire.....DA
LOL. Diagnosing eInk stuff is a pain! The battery dies and leaves you thinking the thing is still on, chasing touchscreen issues on a shutdown system.
I think you should do a tear down video on it
Where did you get that particular DC load banana jack adapter? I could use one of those.
The sideways looking red thing?
If that's what you mean, it was given to him on a video mailbag. That should help your search.
you are lucky the BMS did not have watch dog secondary protection circuit, which blows a thermal fuse and disconnects the battery. also, the WD secondary chip from TI goes in protection mode (something happens to it internally) and even if you replace the thermal fuse - it just going to blow it up again. Had this on many laptop packs. So, what you need to do is hook a power supply to the battery pack terminals on the BMS and only then detach the baterry - so the BMS does not go in protection as it considers 0 volts as a short.
My guess for the metal backing is heat transfer