I had a lot of old pipes and rebar to cut up and from what I read czcams.com/users/postUgkxPDBfLu68o58Aw85O_J-zIFfjJARBhp-3 this would be the tool for the job. Since I had never used one, I watched a couple of youtube videos and I'm so glad I did. Some really good safety tips, which I followed, and this tool did a splendid job. One good thing to know is the weight of the tool puts just about the right amount of pressure on the metal I was cutting, so I didn't have to use a lot of pressure, which is more likely to jam the tool. It made fast work of my job.
DoRite, I just came up on this video. I want to thank you for taking the time and effort to create it. Angle grinders are one tool that many DIY types and professionals just take for granted. Pros have lots of experience to help dictate what's gonna be their next tool. For us DIY types, sometimes experience helps and sometimes, word of mouth and then there's CZcams videos. My 10-12-year-old 4.5" DeWalt finally gave up the ghost about a year ago and I thought I'd go with a cordless Porter Cable since I already had a couple of their battery tools. Well, that little 4.5" cordless angle grinder is pretty much a weak tool. I only paid around $49 for it so, you get what you pay for. So, now, I learned a lesson, get the CORRECT TOOL for longevity and durability. And your video has helped immensely with my decision. Although you did not disassemble a DeWalt, I'm leaning towards them. I was not all that familiar with Metabo but I know about them now. Again, thanks for the quality video on these type tools. Very informative. Scott
As an electrical engineer, let me help explain why you don't see more burnt switches and the weird things you see between the switch listed amps and tool listed amps. For other EEs, I'm switching the electrical word load (Amps) for power (Watts) since I will be talking about torque load on the motor and it may become confusing for some if I do not. Also, since, even in the real world voltage only decreases very slightly under a torque load on a motor, we'll assume voltage stays perfect resulting in power and electrical load being proportionate due to (Watts = Amp x Volts) where Volts is a constant. I will still reference Amps since that was what the video talked in while saying power. Now, with that disclaimer out of the way. There are multiple types of torque loads to consider on a motor that require a proportionate amount of electrical power to continue to operate. The main types of loads are startup, no load, constant and surge load. Since we are talking cars too, think of startup load as accelerating your vehicle from 0 to 60 smoothly, constant load as the power it takes to maintain a car going 60mph and surge load as the power it takes to accelerate from 50 to 60 with the whole family in the car vs just you. You will notice that your instant mpg drops greatly when you have accelerate (startup or surge) vs getting higher mpg when cruising at 60mph (Constant). If you want to prove this theory, go to a drag strip and see how much gas you burn through compared to when you are cruising home. The dragstrip is a good analogy because the grinder is accelerating from 0 to x,000 rpm in a couple seconds, even for a soft start. This is where you will need l, let's say, 10 amps to startup. Once the speed settles out, the power to keep something spinning with no load(no torque) on the motor drops to a fraction of the startup power. This is very low, because it's like putting your car on a jack stand and letting the wheels spin freely. The power is very dependent on the motor, voltage, which effect efficiencies etc. Let's just call it 25% power for no load which is 2.5amp. The next thing is surge power which is the act of taking the no load grinder and pushing it on something, the motor slows until the motor uses more power to get back up to speed. This is like the whole family suddenly appearing in your car, the car slows and has to use more power to get back to the speed you were cruising at. Let's say this is 75% of startup power which is 7.5amps. The last thing is constant power like cruising at 60mph or are applying constant pressure on the item you are cutting with the grinder. Let's call this 50% of the the startup power which is 5 amps. Here it is listed and how long each lasts: Startup = 10 amps (lasts seconds) No load = 2.5 amps (lasts indefinite) Constant = 5 amps (lasts indefinite) Surge= 7.5 amps (lasts as long as you push, normally seconds) When you looks at the amps vs the time duration, you see the higher amps typically lasts seconds vs no load and constant load lasting indefinitely. Like your car, going just over the red line very briefly won't necessarily destroy your engine; going very briefly just over a switches rated current briefly will not hurt it and switches, fuses, and other electrical components will have surge electrical load ratings and durations that will not always be printed on the part itself due to real estate constraints. The constant load will be typically listed. If you don't believe me, go find an incandescent light bulb and switch it on and off very fast, if you do it fast enough, the light bulb will not shine even though there is the same power going through it because it was so short that it was like your grinder switch during startup. So fast, it didn't start glowing. Now marketing people want to sell you things and people like numbers, so they look at that list and say, wow, it gets up to 10 amps! We'll advertise it as a 10amp grinder. The electrical engineer would choose the switch based on the surge load because they know the startup load of 10 amps is so brief it won't damage the switch rated for 7.5 amps; however, someone who didn't listen to dad's advice to let the tool do the work may try to keep pushing on the tool to get done faster and complain its hard work while dad tells him it builds character, laughing quietly to himself. Luckily the engineer has chosen the switch for this scenario. If the engineer gets "help" from a finance person to choose the switch, the finance person will try to get the engineer to choose the cheapest switch, which is the 2.5 amp switch. If the engineer can't at least convince the finance person to authorize the 5 amps, the will get a rash of returns with burnt switches and ultimately at least get the 5 amp switch. This results in some returns when the switch melts because someone applied constant pressure or when a bearing starts to go, causing internal torque. You are probably asking why the finance person doesn't trust the engineer? It's because the finance person went to the marketing person who claims that $1 extra for the 7.5 amp switch vs the 2.5 amp switch will cause sales to decrease by 75% and people will have to be laid off. He says he sells the product and the engineer designs it, so who do you think will lose their job?! Of course this is all hogwash to put some fire in the finance person to side with marketing person so the marketing person can claim they reduced expenditure of 100k units by $1 to increase the profit margin by $100k dollars so that they get a $10k bonus at the end of the year. Now you can understand why companies led by the original engineers make better products than the products from that same manufacturer after the CEO retired and a Harvard marketing/finance major took over spouting catch phrases like shareholder value and operational efficiencies before moving the manufacturing to the lowest bidder. Remember engineering is a mindset, not a degree. I know just as many farmers who do amazing engineering in there barn and never got a degree. I really hope this helps explain a few things and helps you make a better informed decision.
It is so refreshing to see an adult disassemble/evaluate tools without profanity and intentionally mispronounced words. I think my next grinder will be a Ridgid and I know it will not be a Horrible Freight. Replaceable brushes is a desirable feature. The most expensive tool is the one you buy the cheapest, again and again. Quality tools are "investments" that pay great dividends.
I've always been a Makita fan as well, but next time I buy a grinder I think I'll take a hard look at those Ridged grinders. Thanks for showing us the guts and gears.
I like this guy. He's obviously not blinded by the tribalism that plagues fanboys of any brand. You can tell he keeps an open mind to the facts before him, and doesn't turn a blind eye to the short comings of a preferred brand or style of build.
I can’t kept all the boxes to satisfy rigids return policy. I’ve got the paddle version of the makita and had no issues. I’ve used a few different metabo and really like them. Maybe on the next upgrade I’ll get one, but for now size and weight of the makita and price made the makita a winner. Also the 3 decades of unbroken makita tools is a pretty good record.
Like you I have a bunch of them . Beyond any shadow of a doubt the nicest to use and most reliable is my Fein 5" one. Tool less disc changing, soft start, build quality that shines above all others. I have proper ragged it grinding down big welds on excavator boom and bucket repairs and it shrugs it off like it ain't anything! The body has been ergonomically designed for all day hard use comfort. Importantly it transmits very little vibration back to my hands. You got to try one, you will not regret it! Great video by the way.
Thanks. Fein is the only company that compares with Metabo. It's a Chevy/Ford thing..... of course that's my opinion, but like you I have spent a lot of time with a grinder in my hand. Thanks for watching.
Great video. I like to know what is on the inside. I am more of an electronics guy but have gotten more into tools as a homeowner. This helps in my decision to purchase an angle grinder. Thanks.
My Black and Decker serves me after 33 years of use very well....i own the BD11....also my 34 years old B&D Drillhammer BD 654 runs like new after tens of thousands of holes drilled in concrete....i sometimes cant believe that and it always makes me grin how they perform
My dad has a ton of tools like that, some are going on 50 years old, when buying Chinese wasn't even an option (a cheap tool would cost you your Man Card). These days you're lucky if they survive the warranty period.
That’s quite interesting, I’ve always been makita in lot of my power tools and have screwed up quite a few as well but after seeing the internals I might just have change my mind I think, thanks for sharing Jim, very much appreciated, Matty🇦🇺
Difference is that with Makita is that you need to know how to use the tool , Metabo has all those fancy security features to people that really dont use grinders so often . Its not like Makita would not have grinders that have over load warning light , few of their models do have that , but you can burn Makita up , specially with some of their new grinders with an idiotic design flaw , cooling air intake can easily be blocked by operator when those are on sides , in a place where you hold the tool .
My Metabo HPT grinder has been amazing. It is $40 for a kit with 5 grinding wheels and a case on Amazon. Works well for grinding, wire brushing and cutting.
I bought one of these and it only lasted a few weeks. I took it apart and one of the commutator bars had fallen off. The unit was never dropped or miss treated. Very dissapointed.
Good to see the guts of these. You should include all of the models in the description though to be fair as I know both Metabo and Makita offer close to a dozen different grinders.
Also look at the balancing! The Metabo needs very little grinding on the rotor and they very fine, very well made. On the Makita the grinding marks are pretty rough and on the HF they remove CHUNKS of metal, which means less weight in the armature and less torque generated at the end!
recently burned up my Metabo on a project. one i had for over 10 yrs. i instantly jumped on Amazon and had a new one on order. unbeatable service from their grinders.
thanks for video. one thing that I really like in angle grinder is an option to attach side handle on the top. That was possible on my first angle grinder and it become my favorite way to hold it. Now I dont even consider angle grinder without it. Strange that none of your's have it. For cutting its probably not the best way to hold it, but for cleaning (and it usually takes way more time than cutting) it's just irreplaceable - so much easier on hands
Thank you Sir Mr. Cowboy you made me a Metabo grinder fan. I wished you would it get and took apart Dewalt and Milwaukee grinders and compare them in the bunch. It was just going to add 1 more hour to put them back together for ya!
Seems a little unfair to praise the Metabo for a switch that exceeds its current draw, but presume suspicion when the HF also has switch rated in excess of the tool's current draw.
I feel pretty good about mine. I bought the Metabo HPT grinder. It's not the $100 dollar version you have there. It's only one speed and still has the slip clutch. I bought this for $40 bucks on Amazon and received a case and 5 basic grinding wheels to get me started. Lowes sold this for $50 bucks but were out. I don't know and wonder what got sacrificed in parts inside but so far really liking this grinder. I been learning a bit about 4-1/2" grinders and ran into a couple problems which is just me being new to the grinder. I did take out a cutting wheel and almost a 2nd cutting wheel cutting .25" steel 18" inches long. Thank you for this video.
Super information. The cone washers that you spoke of on the Metabo is the same theory as the Belville springs used in the older Chrysler transmissions. The Metabo look durable. The Chrysler Belville springs were a common breakage item. Great job my friend.
Would have been nice if you included the model numbers for each of the brands you showed. I hear some Metabo's are made in Germany while others are made in Asia (China?)
The gears are better on the Makita, forged > steel podwer... the only really bad point seems to be the switch... which makes no sense, given that all their switches are rated 8 amps at 250v, so it would be REALLY strange if they only can handle 4 amps at 110/125v I have the impression that this comparison it's quite biassed from the word go, I doubt that you'd have passed such a blatant contradiction if found in the Metabo...
I am a Ridgid guy mostly for the service agreement they offer, however, Home Depot does not ship to Puerto Rico and that is the only ay I could get that grinder. But after I saw that Metabo... Im going straight to Amazon and forget about the Ridgid for now! Thanks for the video!
OK, If you would have unscrewed the terminals on the Makita you would have seen that the terminals on the makita is a crimped ferrule like the Metabo. That is the way Bosch and many other do their terminals as well. Its nice to see Metabo epoxies their windings on the field and armature like Makita. Metabos are very nice german engineering guys like Bosch used to be. They always have some extra features but the price of their tools are usually substantially more than others. I recently went thru this after my last USA made Bosch 1347A went down. I had 3 or 4 set up for each job cutting,grinding,flap wheel or wire wheel. Since all of these are now made in China sadly , I wasn't happy. I looked at a Fein but it wasn't much amperage and China made. I went to my favorite store and went thru every grinder they had. I didn't want the size and weight of the Dewilt or Makita 13 amp grinders, just a good "normal" 4.5" grinder. I ended up finding, the one, the only, German made Bosch! It was the display and bought it. I felt like I had the ring of Zoran or whatever that thing was. My precious, Mine! Mine ! I need more than 1 grinder though. Makita has long been the pipeline welders standard so I ordered their latest China made 7.5amp model. Now, I just have to try to get used to the paddle switch style Bosch or use my new Chinesium Makita with the side switch I like. My never ending battle continues. . .
As an occasional diy'er I thought harbor freight tools were the way to go for me but when they break in SCARY ways I stopped asking what tool will get me through a project and instead ask what tool won't send me to the hospital with terrible injuries because it breaks apart during use. Grinders are particularly dangerous so quality is particularly important.
Thanks for the teardown report. I've been through a dozen different brands, never had a Metabo but Milwaukee grinders seem to hold up better for me than Dewalt, Ryobi, etc and it gets abused heavily. Dropped, banged, sucking in metal dust on a daily basis, I've used the Milwaukee over 5 years now. Brushes seem to always be my failure point but haven't had that problem yet with this one
My dad bought me a chinesium brad nailer, the pins are retained by use of o-rings, not circlips it sorta works, I don't trust it. He also bought me an air compressor from the same outlet store, it stopped working after a year of very light duty(filling tires and blowing out dust), and lastly, a grinder, it seems to be fine. My inner reaction is "great, thanks dad, I wonder how many uses I'll get out of it before it packs it in". I'm not a fan of use once and replace tools, I like the Dewalt XR drills with the metal gear housing, I've used them on industrial construction sites, they take a beating and mostly keep going, the switches are a weak link, their plastic gear housing drills are crap, they are constantly being tagged out of service, the company typically orders a pallet of tools(drills, grinders, heat guns, sawsalls, etc) at the end of the job contract the tools are auctioned off so they start off with fresh tools fro every job, on one job they decided to try the cheaper Dewalt drills, they had to replace 90% of them in less than 6 months, they also had 10 or so cheap chinesium heat guns and a few from Dewalt, only the Dewalts survived beyond 2 months of use. My exposure to tools on an industrial setting sure does show how a quality tool is worth it's price when you have 30 guys fighting to use the few good tools that are still working when the cheap ones are on their last legs of not available. I ended up buying a Makita LXT202 combo kit over 12 years ago(before Dewalt committed to Li-ion batteries, they were still using Nicad and a few Ni-MH at that time, I hated their battery system) and it's still working like a champ. powerdrillshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Makita-LXT202-18-Volt-Hammer-Drill-Impact-Driver-Combo-Kit-550x550.jpg
To be fair to the Makita on the voltage/amperage rating of that switch, the voltage ratings have more to do with arcing and the way it was installed in that case wouldn't make me concerned at all about the longevity or reliability or safety of the tool itself.
In all honesty, this video was "fair and balanced". You got to see how each grinder was constructed. And you were given the price point for each tool, and a comparison in quality. I don't want to sound like a "Smart @$$" , but I'd love to see the video of you putting them all back together I have a DeWalt Angle Grinder and a Saws-all. They are good tools for what I need. Andrew D.
Vary nice comparison. Really shows where the companies skimp to save money. I'm not surprised that the Harbor Freight grinder looked used. It may have been a return and refurbished.
9:30 actually that's ideal - having a switch rated for higher current than the tool draws. If you could get a 15 amp switch in there, it'd be even better. When designing electronics, a 50% overshoot is good, and 100% is even better if possible. Your home light switches are rated for 15 amps. Doesn't mean your lightbulbs draw 15 amps (they don't, likely between 0.05 and 0.5 amps actually!), but the switch CAN handle 15 amps.
on that particular makita the lock pin is the failure i have one. that grinder has been used to cut metal wood and grass lol it had been abused would recomend. i also have a ga4530, and the lockpin goes in way deeper and is also a machined gear unlike the 9557
This has to be one of the best tool breakdown and reviews I have seen. BTW I am a Honda guy, but also like GMC for our large cars :-) That comment had me laughing so hard. Thanks for the great review.
I burned up a Ryobi, Dewalt, then a Craftsman today trying to find a good grinder thinking going Milwaukee 🤔 OH yah have a 7" Makita but haven't had a chance to run it my generator can't even power it it just trips. Need good power outlet and no extension cord to run it so it's never been used.
Thanks for sharing. I agree Metabo grinders are top of the line grinders along with the German made Walter. Again you get what you pay for. BTW how the water tower coming along? God bless you and yours.
Great video. I really enjoyed that. I have an old Makita 4 or 4 1/2, all plastic. It is 20 years old and I hope to keep it running forever! It is the lightest one I can find and I seem to always be grinding over my head, or in a weird position. (on my boat usually). But I have 2 other grinders too. On thing that I am trying to figure out is why they have open bearings. There is only a seal on one side. What grease should I use to pack the bearings?
Very interesting to see, but nothing beats real world usage, been through 2 Metabo 2 Bosch 1 AEG and onto a Makita Grinder All the 125mm Grinders, The last Bosch Grinder even blew a safety switch when the motor went! As for Metabo and AEG they lasted the least amount of abuse and time, weak! This New 2020 Makita 125mm Grinder seems to be the most stout and you can tell, even the cord is almost twice the thickness but super flexible! We'll see how long it lasts though! Bosch seems to last the longest and the most abuse IMO and XP
P-C is owned by Dewalt and when they took them over, they swapped a pile of parts and assemblies to off the shelf dewalt ones. Sadly, SBD sees P-C as a lower tier tool than Dewalt and it shows.
I lean towards having a grinder with a variable speed switch. Most the time its just wide open but its nice to slow it down especially with a wire wheel.
Ave tore one down. It was very nice but it has a shaft that is made to be the weak link, like a shear pin. Not good IMHO. But its How Hilti is kind of designed to operate. They maintain and deliver and finance the tools to fleets and industry. Its kind of a whole different business model. I'm not a fan of strange monopolistic companies like Apple, etc. tho. I like being able to buy from different stores/dealers creates competition. Competition always benefits us consumers. Hilti does make some very nice tools tho. On these grinders they are all made in China tho, just to each companies "spec" If Hilti didn't "spec" that split shaft, I would be a fan of trying their grinder though.
The Metabo gear end is a rubberised plastic, it helps absorb vibration, I only use Metabo now as I found that all the others just do not stand up to workshop use, Metabo are also the only manufacturer that makes all the main components in house. That Rigid grinder looked very much like a Bosch inside.
Had milwaukee 7a 110v 4.5 disk n1200pm i had it for 10 years i just burn it. I did push the grinder to hard by cutting yoke on half from a semi truck. And i just got Makita 7.5a 110v 4.5 disk with n11000pm. Hope it will be good like the Milwaukee. But looking to buy another milwaukee 13a for cutting heavy staff. The video was good educational. Also i am from Europe and metabo has to comply with the European quality control and USA lacks on quality control company can sale any kind of garbage out there witch could be really unsafe.
My 18vdc DeWalt cordless drill is very handy. I also have a corded 1/2" DeWalt. I let someone borrow my 1/2" B&D Industrial Model, and never got it back. I no longer loan tools. LOL
Mature Patriot / 2 BUSTED THUMBS I’ve had bad service with dewalt batteries. I run Milwaukee cordless daily without hiccups. The dewalt guys at the shop are always buying batteries
Is the Metabo clutch system the same as Makita's SJS? I have a couple of the Makita's with SJS and if the blade digs in, or binds for any reason, the motor is disengaged to prevent the motor from burning out.
Metabo. Tool-less guard adjustments. Variable speed with a governor. I LOVE being able to slow my grinder down if I'm sanding wood to prevent burning. Mine doesn't have the "clutch" but it does stop the motor if you seriously overload it. I also love Metabo's "Quick" arbor nut. Not too long ago, Bosch finally came out with a grinder with variable speed but my 12 year old Metabo is still superior.
I might be in the minority here but I never really liked the metabo at least for the money you have to spend on em. I felt they were more of a status symbol at the shipyard if that makes any sense. It's the first grinder to walk off.
Hello my name is Derek, and I'm obviously a new viewer.. I don't even know your name I believe it says on your shirt Jim?? anyways I just wanted to stop in and say hi and let you know I ran across your Canon video, watched all those very impressed I'd like to see a little of the competition you had with whoever you were teamed up with! The other thing is you are a obviously master Craftsman and probably a Rodger certified welder?? I'm loving watching your videos and would like to see more of the hit and miss motors I had a old-timer friend of mine that had a Bridgeport and lathe in his basement!! don't ask me how he got them down there for all I know he might have built the house around them?? Took them completely apart and brought them down piece by piece?? but I believe the caste-based for bridgeport's over 2000 pounds?.. anyways he would buy the castings for hit and miss motors, so and completely machine all the nuts and bolts and springs and screws and pistons and shafts and rods and valves and everything!!! He also built a couple nice trailers to tow them behind his vehicle and he would take them up to the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn Michigan and all the way up to the Berkeley steam engine show in northern Michigan!! He won many awards and I'm very ashamed to have known him and not remember his name I believe it was Bob but I only knew him for a couple of years when I was about 17 years old I'm 45 now! So anyways I'm liking your videos plan on watching all of them. they could use to be quite a bit longer in my opinion 45 minutes an hour is perfectly good for us older people have a lot of time to sit on the toilet nowadays ?? Or maybe I shouldn't eat so much cheese haha!! see you keep up the good videos!!
Hey Jim, I just checked out Kevin Rucker. I'll be watching some of his videos too..anyways one thing I want to say is the old-timer Bob across the street from me was about 60 he had just retired from Ford as an engineer in 1989 I believe.. but just to tell you what kind of old school boy he was, he gave me a full set of the Foxfire books.. I believe I read every single page!!
I had a lot of old pipes and rebar to cut up and from what I read czcams.com/users/postUgkxPDBfLu68o58Aw85O_J-zIFfjJARBhp-3 this would be the tool for the job. Since I had never used one, I watched a couple of youtube videos and I'm so glad I did. Some really good safety tips, which I followed, and this tool did a splendid job. One good thing to know is the weight of the tool puts just about the right amount of pressure on the metal I was cutting, so I didn't have to use a lot of pressure, which is more likely to jam the tool. It made fast work of my job.
DoRite,
I just came up on this video. I want to thank you for taking the time and effort to create it. Angle grinders are one tool that many DIY types and professionals just take for granted. Pros have lots of experience to help dictate what's gonna be their next tool. For us DIY types, sometimes experience helps and sometimes, word of mouth and then there's CZcams videos. My 10-12-year-old 4.5" DeWalt finally gave up the ghost about a year ago and I thought I'd go with a cordless Porter Cable since I already had a couple of their battery tools.
Well, that little 4.5" cordless angle grinder is pretty much a weak tool. I only paid around $49 for it so, you get what you pay for. So, now, I learned a lesson, get the CORRECT TOOL for longevity and durability. And your video has helped immensely with my decision. Although you did not disassemble a DeWalt, I'm leaning towards them. I was not all that familiar with Metabo but I know about them now. Again, thanks for the quality video on these type tools. Very informative.
Scott
As an electrical engineer, let me help explain why you don't see more burnt switches and the weird things you see between the switch listed amps and tool listed amps.
For other EEs, I'm switching the electrical word load (Amps) for power (Watts) since I will be talking about torque load on the motor and it may become confusing for some if I do not. Also, since, even in the real world voltage only decreases very slightly under a torque load on a motor, we'll assume voltage stays perfect resulting in power and electrical load being proportionate due to (Watts = Amp x Volts) where Volts is a constant. I will still reference Amps since that was what the video talked in while saying power. Now, with that disclaimer out of the way.
There are multiple types of torque loads to consider on a motor that require a proportionate amount of electrical power to continue to operate. The main types of loads are startup, no load, constant and surge load. Since we are talking cars too, think of startup load as accelerating your vehicle from 0 to 60 smoothly, constant load as the power it takes to maintain a car going 60mph and surge load as the power it takes to accelerate from 50 to 60 with the whole family in the car vs just you. You will notice that your instant mpg drops greatly when you have accelerate (startup or surge) vs getting higher mpg when cruising at 60mph (Constant). If you want to prove this theory, go to a drag strip and see how much gas you burn through compared to when you are cruising home.
The dragstrip is a good analogy because the grinder is accelerating from 0 to x,000 rpm in a couple seconds, even for a soft start. This is where you will need l, let's say, 10 amps to startup. Once the speed settles out, the power to keep something spinning with no load(no torque) on the motor drops to a fraction of the startup power. This is very low, because it's like putting your car on a jack stand and letting the wheels spin freely. The power is very dependent on the motor, voltage, which effect efficiencies etc. Let's just call it 25% power for no load which is 2.5amp. The next thing is surge power which is the act of taking the no load grinder and pushing it on something, the motor slows until the motor uses more power to get back up to speed. This is like the whole family suddenly appearing in your car, the car slows and has to use more power to get back to the speed you were cruising at. Let's say this is 75% of startup power which is 7.5amps. The last thing is constant power like cruising at 60mph or are applying constant pressure on the item you are cutting with the grinder. Let's call this 50% of the the startup power which is 5 amps.
Here it is listed and how long each lasts:
Startup = 10 amps (lasts seconds)
No load = 2.5 amps (lasts indefinite)
Constant = 5 amps (lasts indefinite)
Surge= 7.5 amps (lasts as long as you push, normally seconds)
When you looks at the amps vs the time duration, you see the higher amps typically lasts seconds vs no load and constant load lasting indefinitely.
Like your car, going just over the red line very briefly won't necessarily destroy your engine; going very briefly just over a switches rated current briefly will not hurt it and switches, fuses, and other electrical components will have surge electrical load ratings and durations that will not always be printed on the part itself due to real estate constraints. The constant load will be typically listed. If you don't believe me, go find an incandescent light bulb and switch it on and off very fast, if you do it fast enough, the light bulb will not shine even though there is the same power going through it because it was so short that it was like your grinder switch during startup. So fast, it didn't start glowing.
Now marketing people want to sell you things and people like numbers, so they look at that list and say, wow, it gets up to 10 amps! We'll advertise it as a 10amp grinder. The electrical engineer would choose the switch based on the surge load because they know the startup load of 10 amps is so brief it won't damage the switch rated for 7.5 amps; however, someone who didn't listen to dad's advice to let the tool do the work may try to keep pushing on the tool to get done faster and complain its hard work while dad tells him it builds character, laughing quietly to himself. Luckily the engineer has chosen the switch for this scenario.
If the engineer gets "help" from a finance person to choose the switch, the finance person will try to get the engineer to choose the cheapest switch, which is the 2.5 amp switch. If the engineer can't at least convince the finance person to authorize the 5 amps, the will get a rash of returns with burnt switches and ultimately at least get the 5 amp switch. This results in some returns when the switch melts because someone applied constant pressure or when a bearing starts to go, causing internal torque.
You are probably asking why the finance person doesn't trust the engineer? It's because the finance person went to the marketing person who claims that $1 extra for the 7.5 amp switch vs the 2.5 amp switch will cause sales to decrease by 75% and people will have to be laid off. He says he sells the product and the engineer designs it, so who do you think will lose their job?! Of course this is all hogwash to put some fire in the finance person to side with marketing person so the marketing person can claim they reduced expenditure of 100k units by $1 to increase the profit margin by $100k dollars so that they get a $10k bonus at the end of the year.
Now you can understand why companies led by the original engineers make better products than the products from that same manufacturer after the CEO retired and a Harvard marketing/finance major took over spouting catch phrases like shareholder value and operational efficiencies before moving the manufacturing to the lowest bidder. Remember engineering is a mindset, not a degree. I know just as many farmers who do amazing engineering in there barn and never got a degree.
I really hope this helps explain a few things and helps you make a better informed decision.
It is so refreshing to see an adult disassemble/evaluate tools without profanity and intentionally mispronounced words. I think my next grinder will be a Ridgid and I know it will not be a Horrible Freight. Replaceable brushes is a desirable feature. The most expensive tool is the one you buy the cheapest, again and again. Quality tools are "investments" that pay great dividends.
Henry Ford said Either you buy the best tools, or you will pay for cheap tools many times over.
Can't believe someone else thought this let alone said it
I've always been a Makita fan as well, but next time I buy a grinder I think I'll take a hard look at those Ridged grinders. Thanks for showing us the guts and gears.
He said “can’t forget the dewalt” then he forgot it.. wow
Metabo uses the same clutch set up as a electric rc car. They work very effectively and efficiently. Highly recommend this tool
I like this guy. He's obviously not blinded by the tribalism that plagues fanboys of any brand. You can tell he keeps an open mind to the facts before him, and doesn't turn a blind eye to the short comings of a preferred brand or style of build.
I can’t kept all the boxes to satisfy rigids return policy. I’ve got the paddle version of the makita and had no issues. I’ve used a few different metabo and really like them. Maybe on the next upgrade I’ll get one, but for now size and weight of the makita and price made the makita a winner. Also the 3 decades of unbroken makita tools is a pretty good record.
Like you I have a bunch of them . Beyond any shadow of a doubt the nicest to use and most reliable is my Fein 5" one. Tool less disc changing, soft start, build quality that shines above all others. I have proper ragged it grinding down big welds on excavator boom and bucket repairs and it shrugs it off like it ain't anything! The body has been ergonomically designed for all day hard use comfort. Importantly it transmits very little vibration back to my hands. You got to try one, you will not regret it! Great video by the way.
Thanks. Fein is the only company that compares with Metabo. It's a Chevy/Ford thing..... of course that's my opinion, but like you I have spent a lot of time with a grinder in my hand. Thanks for watching.
Great break down!! The manufacturers need to watch this!!
That's why I bought a Metabo. Quality from stem to stern. Thanks for sharing !
Great video. I like to know what is on the inside. I am more of an electronics guy but have gotten more into tools as a homeowner. This helps in my decision to purchase an angle grinder. Thanks.
I have a a Northern atools cheap special that has outlasted a Makita and a DeWalt. Rattles like hell, bearings are about to go, but it still grinds!
My Black and Decker serves me after 33 years of use very well....i own the BD11....also my 34 years old B&D Drillhammer BD 654 runs like new after tens of thousands of holes drilled in concrete....i sometimes cant believe that and it always makes me grin how they perform
Too bad they don't make them like that anymore.
Wow. That’s amazing... My tools seem to crap out in a year or two.
My dad has a ton of tools like that, some are going on 50 years old, when buying Chinese wasn't even an option (a cheap tool would cost you your Man Card). These days you're lucky if they survive the warranty period.
I dont like Home Depots business practices but i admit I like my Rigid Drill Driver kit and the lifetime warranty .
That’s quite interesting, I’ve always been makita in lot of my power tools and have screwed up quite a few as well but after seeing the internals I might just have change my mind I think, thanks for sharing Jim, very much appreciated, Matty🇦🇺
Difference is that with Makita is that you need to know how to use the tool , Metabo has all those fancy security features to people that really dont use grinders so often .
Its not like Makita would not have grinders that have over load warning light , few of their models do have that , but you can burn Makita up , specially with some of their new grinders with an idiotic design flaw , cooling air intake can easily be blocked by operator when those are on sides , in a place where you hold the tool .
Just keep in mind Makita has different tiers of grinders as well, professional and consumer level
My Metabo HPT grinder has been amazing. It is $40 for a kit with 5 grinding wheels and a case on Amazon. Works well for grinding, wire brushing and cutting.
Metabo HPT isn't Metabo...It is Chinese Hitachi renamed. the HPT stands for Hikoki Power Tools.
Agree! That is Merabo in name only. Your Hitachi may be an OK grinder, but I would still feel Ripped off haveing them call it a Metabo
I bought one of these and it only lasted a few weeks. I took it apart and one of the commutator bars had fallen off. The unit was never dropped or miss treated. Very dissapointed.
Good to see the guts of these. You should include all of the models in the description though to be fair as I know both Metabo and Makita offer close to a dozen different grinders.
More than that if you count the cordless ones and the 7 inchers. I'll try to add that. Thanks Brian.
Very True bcbloc02
iki critan e mblejet'i pabrikan,a good and honest channel
Also look at the balancing! The Metabo needs very little grinding on the rotor and they very fine, very well made. On the Makita the grinding marks are pretty rough and on the HF they remove CHUNKS of metal, which means less weight in the armature and less torque generated at the end!
recently burned up my Metabo on a project. one i had for over 10 yrs. i instantly jumped on Amazon and had a new one on order. unbeatable service from their grinders.
This breakdown is the best I've seen
Chevy guy here. Both sides of the family raised me that way. Also a Metabo guy. I refuse to take mine to my day job. Shop at home only!
thanks for video. one thing that I really like in angle grinder is an option to attach side handle on the top. That was possible on my first angle grinder and it become my favorite way to hold it. Now I dont even consider angle grinder without it. Strange that none of your's have it. For cutting its probably not the best way to hold it, but for cleaning (and it usually takes way more time than cutting) it's just irreplaceable - so much easier on hands
Thank you Sir Mr. Cowboy you made me a Metabo grinder fan. I wished you would it get and took apart Dewalt and Milwaukee grinders and compare them in the bunch. It was just going to add 1 more hour to put them back together for ya!
Nice to see them pulled apart. I would like to see them all running and have you make a judgement about which one had the least vibration.
Seems a little unfair to praise the Metabo for a switch that exceeds its current draw, but presume suspicion when the HF also has switch rated in excess of the tool's current draw.
I really enjoyed watching this video. Thank you!
I feel pretty good about mine. I bought the Metabo HPT grinder. It's not the $100 dollar version you have there. It's only one speed and still has the slip clutch. I bought this for $40 bucks on Amazon and received a case and 5 basic grinding wheels to get me started. Lowes sold this for $50 bucks but were out.
I don't know and wonder what got sacrificed in parts inside but so far really liking this grinder. I been learning a bit about 4-1/2" grinders and ran into a couple problems which is just me being new to the grinder. I did take out a cutting wheel and almost a 2nd cutting wheel cutting .25" steel 18" inches long.
Thank you for this video.
Super information. The cone washers that you spoke of on the Metabo is the same theory as the Belville springs used in the older Chrysler transmissions. The Metabo look durable. The Chrysler Belville springs were a common breakage item. Great job my friend.
Bellville washers
I realize that you can't review everything but I am a fan of Milwaukee tools.
Would love a review of the new brushless corded grinders. No brushes should remove the last weak point of angle grinders.
Thank you sir for your time and all the valuable detailed information
Would have been nice if you included the model numbers for each of the brands you showed. I hear some Metabo's are made in Germany while others are made in Asia (China?)
I was just about to buy a Makita. Thanks man 👍
Your welcome, that's why I have the channel.
The gears are better on the Makita, forged > steel podwer... the only really bad point seems to be the switch... which makes no sense, given that all their switches are rated 8 amps at 250v, so it would be REALLY strange if they only can handle 4 amps at 110/125v
I have the impression that this comparison it's quite biassed from the word go, I doubt that you'd have passed such a blatant contradiction if found in the Metabo...
I am a Ridgid guy mostly for the service agreement they offer, however, Home Depot does not ship to Puerto Rico and that is the only ay I could get that grinder. But after I saw that Metabo... Im going straight to Amazon and forget about the Ridgid for now! Thanks for the video!
OK, If you would have unscrewed the terminals on the Makita you would have seen that the terminals on the makita is a crimped ferrule like the Metabo. That is the way Bosch and many other do their terminals as well. Its nice to see Metabo epoxies their windings on the field and armature like Makita. Metabos are very nice german engineering guys like Bosch used to be. They always have some extra features but the price of their tools are usually substantially more than others. I recently went thru this after my last USA made Bosch 1347A went down. I had 3 or 4 set up for each job cutting,grinding,flap wheel or wire wheel. Since all of these are now made in China sadly , I wasn't happy. I looked at a Fein but it wasn't much amperage and China made. I went to my favorite store and went thru every grinder they had. I didn't want the size and weight of the Dewilt or Makita 13 amp grinders, just a good "normal" 4.5" grinder. I ended up finding, the one, the only, German made Bosch! It was the display and bought it. I felt like I had the ring of Zoran or whatever that thing was. My precious, Mine! Mine ! I need more than 1 grinder though. Makita has long been the pipeline welders standard so I ordered their latest China made 7.5amp model. Now, I just have to try to get used to the paddle switch style Bosch or use my new Chinesium Makita with the side switch I like. My never ending battle continues. . .
Just brilliant. First of your video watched, now subscribed .
Good show Jim! Always wanted to know the difference between various manufacturer s.
Thank you, Lance & Patrick.
As an occasional diy'er I thought harbor freight tools were the way to go for me but when they break in SCARY ways I stopped asking what tool will get me through a project and instead ask what tool won't send me to the hospital with terrible injuries because it breaks apart during use. Grinders are particularly dangerous so quality is particularly important.
i have that makita ive run it at alomost full stall cutting things that is wasnt made to cut, it takes it like a champ
Thanks for the teardown report. I've been through a dozen different brands, never had a Metabo but Milwaukee grinders seem to hold up better for me than Dewalt, Ryobi, etc and it gets abused heavily. Dropped, banged, sucking in metal dust on a daily basis, I've used the Milwaukee over 5 years now. Brushes seem to always be my failure point but haven't had that problem yet with this one
anything changed with that yet?
?
Someone’s been watching AvE. Lol
Spanks for watching, be sure to comment down below in the doobliedo.....lol
This guy is the Carlos Mencia of tool reviews.
@@MrJinxxxed13 i just came from watching an AvE. I appreciate that this guy also knows what he is talking about. More knowledge, the better.
But obviously not copying him.
Thankyou sir! This video helped me alot. Greetings from Mexico
Thanks for your input on these very useful tools
you know your stuff thanks for sharing your knowledge
I have a corded Bosch paddle grinder works amazing also have a dewalt flexvolt grinder and a earthquake xt 20volt grinder
My dad bought me a chinesium brad nailer, the pins are retained by use of o-rings, not circlips it sorta works, I don't trust it.
He also bought me an air compressor from the same outlet store, it stopped working after a year of very light duty(filling tires and blowing out dust), and lastly, a grinder, it seems to be fine. My inner reaction is "great, thanks dad, I wonder how many uses I'll get out of it before it packs it in".
I'm not a fan of use once and replace tools, I like the Dewalt XR drills with the metal gear housing, I've used them on industrial construction sites, they take a beating and mostly keep going, the switches are a weak link, their plastic gear housing drills are crap, they are constantly being tagged out of service, the company typically orders a pallet of tools(drills, grinders, heat guns, sawsalls, etc) at the end of the job contract the tools are auctioned off so they start off with fresh tools fro every job, on one job they decided to try the cheaper Dewalt drills, they had to replace 90% of them in less than 6 months, they also had 10 or so cheap chinesium heat guns and a few from Dewalt, only the Dewalts survived beyond 2 months of use.
My exposure to tools on an industrial setting sure does show how a quality tool is worth it's price when you have 30 guys fighting to use the few good tools that are still working when the cheap ones are on their last legs of not available.
I ended up buying a Makita LXT202 combo kit over 12 years ago(before Dewalt committed to Li-ion batteries, they were still using Nicad and a few Ni-MH at that time, I hated their battery system) and it's still working like a champ. powerdrillshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Makita-LXT202-18-Volt-Hammer-Drill-Impact-Driver-Combo-Kit-550x550.jpg
To be fair to the Makita on the voltage/amperage rating of that switch, the voltage ratings have more to do with arcing and the way it was installed in that case wouldn't make me concerned at all about the longevity or reliability or safety of the tool itself.
Mopar or no-car. Oh wait, I'm sitting in a Chevy and my oldest one is a Ford. Great vid, getting ready to buy one of these.
Thanks, I learned quite a bit. Great reviews.
Metabo The best quality 👍
It would have been helpful if the model#s, of the grinders tested, were given.
In all honesty, this video was "fair and balanced". You got to see how each grinder was constructed. And you were given the price point for each tool, and a comparison in quality.
I don't want to sound like a "Smart @$$" , but I'd love to see the video of you putting them all back together
I have a DeWalt Angle Grinder and a Saws-all. They are good tools for what I need. Andrew D.
You wouldn't want to watch me put them back together, it wouldn't be a family show anymore.....lol
Vary nice comparison. Really shows where the companies skimp to save money. I'm not surprised that the Harbor Freight grinder looked used. It may have been a return and refurbished.
I prefer DeWalt always had good luck with them I still have some that are over 20 years old
Worth knowing that name is owned by Stanley Black & Decker. It is not the same product from 20 years ago.
9:30 actually that's ideal - having a switch rated for higher current than the tool draws. If you could get a 15 amp switch in there, it'd be even better. When designing electronics, a 50% overshoot is good, and 100% is even better if possible.
Your home light switches are rated for 15 amps. Doesn't mean your lightbulbs draw 15 amps (they don't, likely between 0.05 and 0.5 amps actually!), but the switch CAN handle 15 amps.
Great video family. ...Salute.
on that particular makita the lock pin is the failure i have one. that grinder has been used to cut metal wood and grass lol it had been abused would recomend. i also have a ga4530, and the lockpin goes in way deeper and is also a machined gear unlike the 9557
How about SKIL and Milwaukee grinders? I have both and they're both very well built, and work flawlessly!
This has to be one of the best tool breakdown and reviews I have seen. BTW I am a Honda guy, but also like GMC for our large cars :-) That comment had me laughing so hard. Thanks for the great review.
I burned up a Ryobi, Dewalt, then a Craftsman today trying to find a good grinder thinking going Milwaukee 🤔 OH yah have a 7" Makita but haven't had a chance to run it my generator can't even power it it just trips. Need good power outlet and no extension cord to run it so it's never been used.
Nice video. Great to see the "guts" comparison!
Thanks for sharing. I agree Metabo grinders are top of the line grinders along with the German made Walter. Again you get what you pay for. BTW how the water tower coming along? God bless you and yours.
Surprised me about Makita😮....i wonder if the larger ones like 9 or 10 amp and up are made better like the gear material?
Nice job ! Very informative
Well done. Building quality is the main issue here :)
My favorite is a pneumatic 4 and a half inch angle grinder. I never see anyone else using one.
I use one for aluminium as the metal dust floats about and gets into electric ones with spectacular results on ocasions.
Metabo for the win!
Great video. I really enjoyed that. I have an old Makita 4 or 4 1/2, all plastic. It is 20 years old and I hope to keep it running forever! It is the lightest one I can find and I seem to always be grinding over my head, or in a weird position. (on my boat usually). But I have 2 other grinders too. On thing that I am trying to figure out is why they have open bearings. There is only a seal on one side. What grease should I use to pack the bearings?
You really took your time. Thank you. P. S, did you put them all back together?
Yes I did....
Very interesting to see, but nothing beats real world usage, been through 2 Metabo 2 Bosch 1 AEG and onto a Makita Grinder All the 125mm Grinders, The last Bosch Grinder even blew a safety switch when the motor went! As for Metabo and AEG they lasted the least amount of abuse and time, weak! This New 2020 Makita 125mm Grinder seems to be the most stout and you can tell, even the cord is almost twice the thickness but super flexible! We'll see how long it lasts though! Bosch seems to last the longest and the most abuse IMO and XP
What no Porter Cable I've been using them since 2013 and for the money u can't beat it.. performance is very good and am hard on them.
Send me a new Porter Cableand I'll be happy to tear it apart and shoot a video. I just can't afford to buy every manufacturer out there.
P-C is owned by Dewalt and when they took them over, they swapped a pile of parts and assemblies to off the shelf dewalt ones. Sadly, SBD sees P-C as a lower tier tool than Dewalt and it shows.
The Makita screws are JIS not Phillips. They'll cam out & strip easy with PH#2
I lean towards having a grinder with a variable speed switch. Most the time its just wide open but its nice to slow it down especially with a wire wheel.
Metabo WEV 10-125 ... you can't get a better one... ;)
Angle grinder great for cutting your vegetables and fruits
I would of liked to see the dewalt one opened up also.
Would love to have seen a Hilti 4.5 or 5" included in this!
Ave tore one down. It was very nice but it has a shaft that is made to be the weak link, like a shear pin. Not good IMHO. But its How Hilti is kind of designed to operate. They maintain and deliver and finance the tools to fleets and industry. Its kind of a whole different business model. I'm not a fan of strange monopolistic companies like Apple, etc. tho. I like being able to buy from different stores/dealers creates competition. Competition always benefits us consumers. Hilti does make some very nice tools tho. On these grinders they are all made in China tho, just to each companies "spec" If Hilti didn't "spec" that split shaft, I would be a fan of trying their grinder though.
aeg wse 800 ,electronic brake
Excellent review Jim!
I’ve had a porter cable grinder for 4 years, I use it about 5 times a month. Paid 30 buck.
The Metabo gear end is a rubberised plastic, it helps absorb vibration, I only use Metabo now as I found that all the others just do not stand up to workshop use, Metabo are also the only manufacturer that makes all the main components in house. That Rigid grinder looked very much like a Bosch inside.
Thanks for the info.
A nice, concise review and I don't have to try to figure out what 'chooch' means.
Well, I can tell you the Metabo is skookum (sp?). LOL! I looked it up once, it a northern hemisphere native word. Basically it means great or good.
Had milwaukee 7a 110v 4.5 disk n1200pm i had it for 10 years i just burn it. I did push the grinder to hard by cutting yoke on half from a semi truck.
And i just got Makita 7.5a 110v 4.5 disk with n11000pm. Hope it will be good like the Milwaukee.
But looking to buy another milwaukee 13a for cutting heavy staff.
The video was good educational.
Also i am from Europe and metabo has to comply with the European quality control and USA lacks on quality control company can sale any kind of garbage out there witch could be really unsafe.
Great video, thanks
Fein is the best.
I have a Craftsman, DeWalt, and Hitachi 4-1/2" grinders. I think the Hitachi is my favorite of the three. BTW, I'm a Dodge guy....
So, you are telling us you don't have good sense right out of the gate . . .("dodge guy" just busting g your chops)
I've always been a Dodge guy. I have to have something to drive to the auto parts store when the Fords and Chevys break down!
@@mattthescrapwhisperer now I know you're lieing, I've been an auto mechanic . . .
My story and I'm sticking with it!
DeWalt 11amp grinder. I do not like DeWalt cordless tools but if it is corded, I’ll buy it.
My 18vdc DeWalt cordless drill is very handy. I also have a corded 1/2" DeWalt. I let someone borrow my 1/2" B&D Industrial Model, and never got it back. I no longer loan tools. LOL
Mature Patriot / 2 BUSTED THUMBS I’ve had bad service with dewalt batteries. I run Milwaukee cordless daily without hiccups. The dewalt guys at the shop are always buying batteries
I just ordered a Ridgid. Should I apply grease to the pinion gears?
HF grinder lasted 3 days. Locking mechanism broke completely when I went to change grinding wheel.
I believe the term you're searching to describe the horror fright tool is Flimsy!!
The proper term is inexpensive. They are what they are. If that's is all you can afford, that is the best you can get.
Good info. Thanks
Is the Metabo clutch system the same as Makita's SJS? I have a couple of the Makita's with SJS and if the blade digs in, or binds for any reason, the motor is disengaged to prevent the motor from burning out.
Metabo. Tool-less guard adjustments. Variable speed with a governor. I LOVE being able to slow my grinder down if I'm sanding wood to prevent burning. Mine doesn't have the "clutch" but it does stop the motor if you seriously overload it. I also love Metabo's "Quick" arbor nut.
Not too long ago, Bosch finally came out with a grinder with variable speed but my 12 year old Metabo is still superior.
I might be in the minority here but I never really liked the metabo at least for the money you have to spend on em. I felt they were more of a status symbol at the shipyard if that makes any sense. It's the first grinder to walk off.
I realy like FEIN Grinders, but not sure if you can get them in the U.S
Marco Heib they are for sale here but i have never seen one, they are rare
Hello my name is Derek, and I'm obviously a new viewer.. I don't even know your name I believe it says on your shirt Jim?? anyways I just wanted to stop in and say hi and let you know I ran across your Canon video, watched all those very impressed I'd like to see a little of the competition you had with whoever you were teamed up with! The other thing is you are a obviously master Craftsman and probably a Rodger certified welder?? I'm loving watching your videos and would like to see more of the hit and miss motors I had a old-timer friend of mine that had a Bridgeport and lathe in his basement!! don't ask me how he got them down there for all I know he might have built the house around them?? Took them completely apart and brought them down piece by piece?? but I believe the caste-based for bridgeport's over 2000 pounds?.. anyways he would buy the castings for hit and miss motors, so and completely machine all the nuts and bolts and springs and screws and pistons and shafts and rods and valves and everything!!! He also built a couple nice trailers to tow them behind his vehicle and he would take them up to the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn Michigan and all the way up to the Berkeley steam engine show in northern Michigan!! He won many awards and I'm very ashamed to have known him and not remember his name I believe it was Bob but I only knew him for a couple of years when I was about 17 years old I'm 45 now! So anyways I'm liking your videos plan on watching all of them. they could use to be quite a bit longer in my opinion 45 minutes an hour is perfectly good for us older people have a lot of time to sit on the toilet nowadays ?? Or maybe I shouldn't eat so much cheese haha!! see you keep up the good videos!!
Hey Jim, I just checked out Kevin Rucker. I'll be watching some of his videos too..anyways one thing I want to say is the old-timer Bob across the street from me was about 60 he had just retired from Ford as an engineer in 1989 I believe.. but just to tell you what kind of old school boy he was, he gave me a full set of the Foxfire books.. I believe I read every single page!!