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Guild Wars 2 Theory Spotlight: The Pale Tree Is A Dragon
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2012
- I never mentioned it during the commentary but massive massive thanks to Aaron Swaffer for the footage in the background, I thought Sylvari would be fitting.
Anyway I wanted to talk about this theory and see what you all thought of it, enjoy!
funny how accurate this was. Sylvari are created by the elder dragon Mordremoth and were designed to serve him.
Based on the new information with Scarlett and her leylines, I think the Sylvari were meant to be Mordremoth's minions. However, the Pale Tree and the Sylvari were influenced by Ventari's tablet in the time they were growing. The Nightmare is Mordremoth's will attempting to reassert itself over the teachings of Ventari, hence the Nightmare Court. When Scarlett looked beyond the Dream, she saw the true source of Nightmare, and fell back into the service of her intended master, aiding his awakening.
This. /Thread
Joey Bower Feel free to copy-paste it wherever you want, we'll know in a few days.
This theory makes the most sense to me
Well you were right 😂
Yeah I can see that..But I still want to believe that Sylvari are their own beings. Capable of doing whatever they want, being free and having hope and justice.. XD
This theory explained more to me about the relationship between the Sylvari, Modremoth, The Pale Tree, Ventari and the Nightmare Court than actually playing through HoT did...
Innnteresting. Maybe the Pale tree is like Glint. A rogue ex-liutenant of Mordremoth that was affected by the Tablet.
well... your kinda right
@@aid4nski215 Entirely.
listening to that in 2017 is actually blowing my mind how close all these theories became to the reality of the game
holy shit ! you must be a prophet ! everything you mention makes perfect sense... it was actually in plain sight all the time
Gosh how right you were. Sylavri are the minions of Mordremoth.
Was not really alone about this theory :P
Many of us players figured this cuz of the dream of the dragon.
It's always a pleasure to come back and rewatch old theories and see where WP was on the same wavelength as the developers and when he wasn't...at least not yet! :D Love all the content, both old and new!
Amazing how spot on this was back then!
Whoa... You did this 4 years ago. FOUR. 😳
Dang! 👍
Jesus, don't remind me!
It's crazy how on point you are WP! Been watching all your "mystery" videos and it's amazing how attuned you are to the lore.
One criticism I have is that the dragon in the dream is said to be a vision for your Wyld Hunt, which is assumed to be to kill an elder dragon. However this is an interesting theory, and I've always been curious as to why Sylvari showed up in the same time frame as the elder dragons. I do believe they are connected, but my guess is that they are the champions of Tyri itself, that they are meant to fight the dragons to stop complete destruction. It could be similar to the dwarves taking the rite. This could explain why the old Sylvari are gone now. Perhaps they have to sacrifice their entire race to drive off the elder dragons to create the period of time where the dragons are asleep.
Well mordremoth could have created the pale tree as a seed, intending to use it once it woke up until the human found it by accident and planted it while ventari used the tablet to change the tree and make it into what it is today. plus scarlet said she saw the source of the nightmare and her intention after that was to awake mordremoth. it's starting to seem pretty plausible and also a very unique story line so I hope ANet doesn't abandon this idea it could make a good conflict for a sylvari character trying to struggle between evil and good.
I so love watching your older videos especially when new things are out especially the season 2 living world story.
huh, watching this all the way in 2023 and I'm having such a nice giggle
cheers mate 🍻
So, seeing how the first living story ended, what do you think: Is it a confirmation for your theory or not?
I just wanted to thank you WP for your lets play, few months ago I wanted to revisit GW1, finish EotN and i finaly bought Faction. That said i was looking for some walkthrough and came across one of your videos and thought why not try to know more about the world, i played it from very first episode and yesterday finished it with dungeon series. I almost never watched your videos, they were going in background of my GW1. Your countless hours are of great worth for me. Cheers,
This was a really interesting video WP! Your videos on lore are the only reason I've not only been able to take my mind off of waiting for the release but also have gotten me really interested in the story of Guild Wars. Please keep it up!
WoodenPotatoes I like your theory a lot, and even kind of came up with it as you were talking (I saw the Mordremoth video first). But there is another one that came to mind. You say that the elder dragons are mindless forces like hurricanes, but also have a lot of hate and anger associated with them. Those are some pretty strong emotions, with some equally strong opposites. Could there be a whole other group of elder dragons that appose the "evil" ones? Like a YinYang kind of deal. Could the "good" dragons actually be what the primitive people called the 6 gods?
Well, definitely not the six gods, since the six gods are not a natural and native force of Tyria, like the Elder Dragons. The six gods are transcendent beings that potentially are a lot older than Tyria and are not native to its systems, like the Elder Dragons, who are associated with the Mists. I do like the idea that in opposition to the Elder Dragons that want to destroy, there are much more subtle Elder Dragons that oppose them, since balance is very big concept on Tyria.
CUE SOO-WON
God, The Sylvari are really a fascinating race to me. The idea that the Sylvari are connected to an Elder Dragon - namely the Jungle one (forgot his name) - is really an interesting idea. Within the Brisban Wildlands is a Sylvari named Malyck, and he is NOT of the Pale Tree. In fact, the entire idea of The Dream is a foreign concept to him. The Pale tree could be like Glint in that she turned on whatever dragon created her - I feel like it is very possible. So many ideas regarding them~
When stuff like this is collaborated by fans it sincerely feels like we, the internet users, are the inspiration for the skritt. We rapidly bounce ideas off one another until it forms something awesome like this theory and could have possibly figured a major story arc with a minimal amount of clues.
omg when i say the title of this the first thing i thought was holy shit he was right! honestly you made this vid like what a day or 2 after gw2 release and you already made a vid on how sylvari are dragon/dragon spawn
This was a fantastic video! I really hope you do more like this down the road.
Great job as always, WP.
Many times in other vids you briefly mention events from the first game you loved or theories you have come up with or heard about, but you don't usually go into detail about them, so I'd love more vids like these where you do discuss them at length.
Really enjoyed this video! The room to speculate about is huge with the Sylvari and I like that. I'd like to see more videos like this. Keep it up! (:
This could be a fucking book and it would be epic.
This just popped on my recommended... Kind of impressive how right on the money this was
i truly enjoy your reasoning and the way you voice all doubts and thoughts on the subjects. :)
good job!
PLEASE do more spotlights... this was an awesome video that has totally gotten me excited over the evolution of the guild wars story. I was enjoying this speculation so much that I decided to change my main to a sylvari for the possible chance to play as possible minion to a possible champion and for the chance to fight the elder nature dragon. (kind feels like I'd be fighting my god xD). So yeah.. more spotlights... excellent potential series.
As we learnt about in the recent living story there are other dragons than the elder dragons, but serve the elder ones, such as glint. So maybe the pale tree was a dragon just like glint, but the same way glint changed and realized that maybye the races of tyria aren´t her enemys and ended up heling them, the pale tree changed because of the ventari tablet and is now doing what glint did before: help the other races of tyria against the elder dragons. And just like the pale tree has seeds and therefor can reproduce glint had her eggs, so that doesnt seem to be a problem for this theory...
Enjoyed your theory very much, and reading the responses most are very interesting as well. Seeing whats coming so far in the Thorns expans i'd said you where very close to what the devs have planned. keep up with the vids enjoy them a lot.
LOVED IT!! DO MORE!! I LOVED IT!! LOL said it twice but 2 times is not enough for to explain how much i loved this video. im a new player to the gw universe and so i loved gw2 just for its mechanics and such, but then i wanted to not be missing out on a big part of the game since i really like it. so i found your lore videos and made me feel more comfortable with the universe and now i am really into the story and REALLY REaLLY love deep lore videos and you do it greatly ;) 10,000,000 out of 10!
This series has so much intrigue for me. I didn't play the first game and this series has added so much value to the things I see in the game and the little side conversations going on all around Tyria. I might even have to pick up the books. Thank you very much for the time and effort it took to make these and please keep them coming, I will keep liking them.
I...am addicted to your videos. This is the 6th one I've seen today! Great work!
I think Theory Spotlights are the best idea you've come out with WP, please make more !
I love them!
Just wow, i hope they have thought so deeply and created these amazing links between the lore and the new additions to the guild wars universe. More of this!!
He is my #1 commentator right now and I make sure to check every day for 1 or 2 videos =)
So you are right.....Again! I swear to god Anet has been listening to you and just make the story goes as you predict the story. XD
Can't predict based on a story that isn't there, though. Anet has been tight lipped about the Sylvari because they knew this was their plan all along. And the Sylvari personal story points to it, too.
tuck295q so mordremoth made the sylvari
Keep it up! You are the reason I got into Guild Wars lore. I can't get enough of it.
I am not normally a lore person at all. This video and theory in general has me totally hooked. would love to hear more about things like this.
Keep the Lore vids coming up. It's nice to know the world you play in on a deeper level.
If the writers actually go for this story and the characters we play as sylvari turn out to be minions of a force they try to fight against, it would be such an amazing twist. It would redefine storytelling in MMOs because, as far as I know, no one has actually done this before.
I really hope this theory proves true, because I like the concept and the possibities of how the story could pan out.
Its probably something we won't see for many years to come though
Watching this in 2021 after 'Mysteries' series comeback and after playing over 1200 hours in past 6 years is surreal :)
I remember in the sylvari quest I am playing currently (about level 11 ish) another sylvari turns up that didn't come from the area of the pale tree, I am not too far into the arch yet but it can follow the idea that the previous pale tree dragon, but I will find out more eventually :) it is a really interesting theory, as well as there being the soundless and the nightmare court making a LOT of sense
Very nice video! It gives me a lot to think about, since I love the lore in this game and was planning on playing as a Sylvari. Keep it up ^^
Great theory... I like the nature vs. nurture idea you talked about concerning the Pale Tree.
Great video. After what just happened in Living Story, it really makes me wonder now.
Intresting theory, i relly enjoy these lorevids you doin - will make the game so much more fun to play - keep it up.
Excellent vid, I myself had been thinking along these lines and if it does pan out anywhere near your proposed storyline arc it will indeed open up a whole load of possibilities story wise.
And yes keep doing stuff like this when you can as its a very different way to approach the game and i do like a bit of lore me.
Lovely video. This is by far the place where WoodenPotatoes shine compared to other GW2 coverage. The fact that you KNOW SO MUCH about the world and the background. Please tell us more!
I would love some more videos like this, doesn't have to be any theory. Any kind of lore video would really help set a mood in the game for me, please do more! :)
You summed this all up very well, and mostly focused on things I already knew, but when you mentioned Kuunvarang my mind about exploded.
Now, the one thing I think you should do is add some thought bubbles here with in game citations - Ie, Malick's story, Scholar Trueclaw (says there exactly 6 dragons), Subject Alpha and Mordemoth...
I think this theory is fabulous, WP. Love all your videos, and just FYI: now the discussion is going on in the Sylvari forums at GW2.
you seem to me like a historian talking about historical events and theories, but in GW2, really love these videos and it makes me like this game even more! good job dude!
So...I saw the ending of season 1 and immediately came back to this.
Anet needs to hire you as a community lead director or something
Another awesome vid WP, MOAR of these lore/theory spotlights!
Nice video, very strong theory. I think we have more support for this with Mordremoth awakening. Sorry for double post with one of your other videos but: When all the races are deciding whether to fight Mordremoth at the Pale Tree summit, Mordremoth's minions attack and force everyone to do so. Mordremoth knew about the summit and almost wanted them to unite. Perhaps, Silverwastes has nothing of importance and he just wants the races united to later turn them on one of the other Dragons.
An important question is - The Dream vs The Nightmare influence. If Pale Tree is a minion, does the dream come from her or Mordremoth? Further, Pale Trees words "we must all play our part" are interesting. We implies her too. Does she know she will have to turn evil and have no choice in doing so? Or "must we play our part" to avoid corruption by the dragon which is a very real threat? I know little about Scarlett's lore but does she know sylvari typically turn evil as part of the cycle? Choosing to fight against that, unlike the Pale Tree would make her a hero (please comment if there are details pointing one way or another). She wants to go against the cycle, but not with the Nightmare, so she thinks the Pale Tree is... wrong?
Love the heavy lore spotlights, do please keep them coming.
Very nice video I liked it a lot. I never thought about that and it could be possible. Would be a massive twist in the game. Now I'm really excited to see what happens next in the lore of GW2 and how the Sylvari are going to evolve.
Another pale tree in Echovald huh? That would be sweet. Nice video overall, I love this and the lore videos. :) (And the countdown too....)
This was a really good video! No one else really does lore let alone lore theories!
Also mystery like this is the reason I like the sylvari so much!=)
And finally. Keep it up. Theories like this and in it's time the comparison of the EDs and the six gods had us thinking the whole thing through. It keeps us on our toes and keeps the lore from getting stale.
Will be anxiously awaiting release to find out where this all leads.
Best Regards,
Your friend in lore....:o)
I loved this video! I don't normally watch lore videos but I watched the whole thing and it was really interesting
More, more & moar of these spotlights please. Interesting theory, i cant really get behind the idea that the tree is a dragon but the idea of the tree being a champion is all i can think about now. also crazy how with a nature elder dragon the elderdragon:human god ratio matches. "I don't believe in coincidence" :)
Awesome video, well done! Makes me even more excited to play a sylvari and see how this turns out.
This was such an awesome video I was dispelling this theory because of the pale tree being planted by a human but once you went over that it made a lot of sense being in cycles and they do match up with the gods a lot better this way it's weird really. But anyway this video was great please do many more! (: and I liked your lore episodes too so you should do those also :P great vids cheers
I wish one of my friends would have turned me on to guild wars 1 sooner. The depth of lore and stuff just sounds so amazing and listening to you talk about the Sylvari and the elder dragons and the champions and blah blah blah... i just can't grasp it all with the month of research i've had on guild wars. I enjoyed it massively thanks very much! Can't wait to play! XD
This theory was damn close.
More spotlights please. This was amazing. Please please please do more!
Loved the video! Great job! I guess the Champion theory is more realistic than it being a dragon itself. What I do think is overlooked: the Sylvari are ALL sentient, extremely intelligent even, as it seems. All the other minions aren't. It simply breaks up a pattern. What I would prefer as a theory would be that the Sylvari and the dragons rising simply have the same cause (like some cyclical surge of "energy"). Just my thoughts.
i read the title before the year the video was released n i was like “duh” then i saw the year “holy wtf”
MORE SPOTLIGHTS PLS!!! omg I wasn´t sure what rae I would play but thats out of question NOW!!!!!!!! ty WP
I particularly like the idea of the ultimate heroic sacrifice that the Sylvari would have to make as a race.
Fascinating theory, altogether.
this was very interesting, nice job on the spotlight really enjoyed it.
I really like this type of video, helps get people interested in the game more I think. My thoughts on this theory is that maybe they aren't an elder dragon or a champion, but natures natural enemies to the elder dragons. As the Sylvari don't age they are able, in theory, to wage an ageless war with the elder dragons and their minions.
I loved this video!!! :D Please, do more like these. :) Thank you for uploading this, as well!
I heard this theory before and (although my lore knowledge is very limited) I thought it was ridiculous, but after watching this I honestly see this as a great theory. Thanks WP for being our lore-master.
Another thing to consider is that the sylvari may be sleeper agents. They join the other races, when in places of power they turn on their allies. Final idea ( slight spoiler) in one of the personal quests it says that anythingn ziatan
This video was amazing... I wanted to play a Sylvari before, but now I really, really do... as for the six human god theory.. it's *got* to be the case that the original six derived their powers from the six elder dragons if they are pre-dated by them and they do mostly match up (Lyssa probably derives from Jormag). Please do more lore videos, WooPo! :)
More of this, lore is one of the many great things about this game, it's so in depth there is just so much to look at!
I saw the dragon boss in the Sylvari tutorial more like a foreshadowing of the thread of the dragons. It is called "Shadow of the Dragon", I took that as meaning that the Elder Dragons are so powerful that they influence the Dream, casting a shadow upon the Dream that manifests as a plant dragon. It should also be noted that the Nightmare is also caused by bad things happening to the Sylvari in general, not just the actions of the Nightmare Court.
Nice work!. Given the objections you yourself mentioned, I can't agree that the Pale Tree is a dragon or a minion. I do agree with & like the idea that the Pale Tree is Tyria's "immune system" rising to counter the Elder Dragons; it's more likely & fitting. I also agree with & like the idea that the Sylvari's true, original nature is darker & more inhuman than what we have- the cave the Pale Tree's seed came from was filled with monsters- but have been ennobled by Ronan's & Ventari's influence.
Ok after this episode... mind blow! So many questions, I really do hope that Anet runs a storyline along the lines of the Pale Tree being the champion of an elder dragon that would be a helluva plot twist.
Yes more lore spotlight please ! I seriously love your voice haha.
Not to mention that Ree did speak as though they followed the elven archetype when creating the Sylvari and spoke of it in a way that made it similar to Tolkien elves, with a sort of 'end of an era' thing... which would match the Sylvari longterm cycle.
I love this theory, Potatoes, I really do! It would make the Sylvari so much more interesting than they already are, in my opinion. I do like the Sylvari, I just feel like they are lacking something- that there HAS to be more to them than what we already know. Have you ever had that feeling?
I also think it's interesting that some people compare them to the 6 human gods, as the gods themselves are also 'elemental' in a way. Melandru to nature; Balth to fire; Grenth to death, and so on.
I agree with this theory. There appear to be a lot of parallels between the gods and their traits and the dragons and their traits. Following with this line of thinking maybe the rumored forest dragon is the parallel of Dwayna who as I recall was the goddess of healing and life. This would make the Sylvari minions of a champion of the forest dragon and make sense that they were interested in preserving nature and life.
There are videos of the battle with Tequatl the Sunless (I think I spelled that right)
However, Elder Dragons will be much larger.
I think it will involve weakening them with big weapons like airships with turrets and such, and also, you'll have to attack it in whatever way you can.
We're not sure of specifics yet, but dragon battles will likely be multi-faceted. Requiring large efforts to defeat, but not withholding the epicness of bringing it down by your own means.
Exactly! Grenth may be similar to Zhaitan (Death), Jormag to Dwayna (Water), Kralkatorrik in some way to Lyssa (Purple), Primordus to Balthazar (Fire), and that leaves Melandru for the Deep Sea Dragon (which is pretty weird, but since the Quaggans worship Melaggan I can accept this). Now the Sylvari could have been intended to represent the force of Abbadon but since he was replaced by Kormir the Sylvari have become in some way pure... though tbh I think that is mainly because ofVentari's Tablet
My theory on the Elder Dragons, is that they are the old gods of Tyria, the gods that ruled over Tyria before the humans 6 arrived. Something corrupted them, wore away at their minds, leaving only a lust for power, and that same thing could have begun to affect Abbadon. This explains quite a few things, but I'm sure there are holes in it, just like every other theory.
Really hope you see his potatoes,
During the past beta weekend event, some lucky people were able to see a part of the early sylvari story line that puts some interesting things on the table. It's from the bio. choice "where life goes, so should you". I don't want to spoil EVERYthing, but the main theorcrafting gem from it is: There is in fact more than one pale tree. You meet a sylvari from another pale tree. You should do a follow up spot light on this
There's a bit of a hole in the theory because the guy who founded the nightmare court was relatively good originally bit he got corrupted and blah blah.....Then he sabotaged some of the dreams of some sylvari, so there wasnt a guy who was randomly evil. Other than that, awesome theory episode WP. Sorry if i made amy mistakes, typing on a glitchy phone keyboard
2:06 lmao
Brilliant, I love how they tried to drag the leather into the bag slot as well.
hahahaha I laughed so hard too. I don't know if he did it while talking or did recording, and talk over a video. Either way, it's too funny. hahahaha
This was back around launch
I like the idea of the pale trees being champions of a "nature" dragon. It seems to fit alot better. Very interesting theory and it will be interesting to see what comes of this in-game.
I never thought that deeply on the nightmare court. But I didn't know anything about the Ventari tablet either. But this is EXTREMELY interesting. Could it possibly be that, Scarlet has found a way to free the pale tree from the influence of the Vanteri Tablet, and would it matter.
so cool that this turned out right
Hey WP, it would be awesome if you could do more video's on more theories. A lot of the stuff you said I read on a forum already, but you saying it makes it sound so much more possible :)
this was very interesting for me although I rather know little about the Guild Wars story!! pls more spotlights! :))
I agree with the Champion theory. Glint sympathized with the races because she could read their minds. I guess the Pale Tree was influenced by Ronan and Ventari. But where Glint decided to hide away, observe and assist only from the shadows and sidelines, this champion decided to build an army.
It makes sense when you consider Slyvari physiology. When they emerge, they are already adults, have some knowledge of the world and skills. And some of them can fight from the moment they are born.