How To Fail At Character - The Rise of Skywalker
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2020
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The Rise of Skywalker was disliked by most people who saw it. In this video essay, I ask why this star wars film failed to resonate with its viewers, and I teach some valuable lessons on how to do a character well...
How To Fail At Character - The Rise of Skywalker
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@The_Closer_Look /sarcasm But the Audience Score on Rotten Tomatoes is 86%, there's no way your poll about the film is accurate! People loved this film!
It's also because they abandon STAR WARS EU and destroy evrything George Lucas has created.
Awesome!
6:38
What's the exception to the rule ?
“Somehow, Palpatine returned”
I laughed so hard in the theatre. I can’t believe the writers actually approved that.
Why not? They don't care about canon, they care about money. There were news articles saying Rise of Skywalker was the highest grossing film of all time which gave Nerdotic a stroke.
I can’t believe I gave my money to that dumpster fire of a film
Ben Drescher
The writers were just being honest lol
Even Oscar Isaac sighed before he said it like FFS this is stupid
When I heard that in the theater. "Somehow, Palpatine returned." any tiny investment I had left after the Last Jedi died. I knew then that this was going to be a mindless, brainless fan J.J Abrams movie. And it was. The quality of Star Wars films is so low at this point it's baffling.
"Remember kids, it doesn't matter if it's good, just that it makes money."
-Mark Hamill, being brutally real.
And if it still makes a billion dollars and sucks, why bother making it not suck?
@@TheJadeFist because that requires effort and time
Ironically the same could be said about this pseudo intellectual video.
@@brandon7346 Ya but it's hard to deny how much more fun and hours of entertainment there has been around everyone trashing on this movie than the movie itself.
@@brandon7346 it was made by few people at most, is reasonably argumented, didn't make gazillion of dollars and yet is still better than entire new Trilogy. What the guy says is creative writing 101 intro.
Palpatine tells her to kill him so he can take over her body… she literally kills him and he never took over her body?
The fuck was the point of the line
It’s like poetry, They rhyme
no, he killed himself with force lightning, see... she didn't do it.
@@nybergsgarage assisted suicide isnt murder, noted JJ lmao.
Pretty sure Palpatine didn't mean literally he probably just meant kill me and that's when you'll really turn to the darkside and become like me.
@@sixfromtokyo he literally said he’d take over her body and live in her body, that’s the gravity of their writing
Prequel Anakin: Wants to save those he loves, wants power, respect, and to be appreciated.
Prequel Palpatine: Promises or gives these needs to Anakin.
OG Trilogy Luke: Wants to protect friends, wants to avenge his Father, wants to accomplish his destiny.
OG Trilogy Palpatine: You want to kill your father, you need to save your friends by doing it, it is your destiny.
Sequels Rey: wants family, wants adventure.
Sequels Palpatine: I can give you unlimited power.
Well said
the worst part is he could have just offered to bring her parents back or some shit.
Wait this is so random, and you probably won’t get this, but I’m just realizing Seliph from Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy War is a lot like Luke. 🤯
Palpatine was her family, so all along she had it with grandpa palpy. Lol
Does Rey actually want anything? Does she even have a will of her own?
I already forgot everything in this movie.
It's easy to forget what happened in this movie because it's very forgettable
Me too. And I watched it THIS MORNING!
This honestly sums up my opinion of the movie better than any other review I've listened to or read. I honestly wouldn't call the plot bad, like I would with 8. It was just kinda forgettable.
I don’t remember the plot, I just remember papa palpa and a knife
I just rember i am all the jedi thing
The problem with Rey is that they wanted her to be like this perfect role model, feminine figure. Instead of creating a perfect role model, they made a flawless character. Flaws are the main ingredient to a good character.
They wanted a Disney Princess.
This the Mary Sue attribution. The Critical Drinker does a brutal but honest criticism of this film. If you havent seen it, it's worth a view. He's done a few on Disney Star Wars I think, and all of them have been pretty harsh.
@@a_lucientes Seen it. I love critical drinker.
So like Luke was in the original series
+Phillip Sandgren except Rey isn't feminine at all. She's a very masculine character, and a Mary Sue.
Femininity is often associated with weakness, so they made her a masculine character who's always strong and never weak. Honestly she's just a bad character.
My problem is that she literally has no struggle. Think about it, first time Luke fights Vader he gets his ass kicked and loses his hand. First time Rey fights Kylo, she kicks his ass her first time ever using a lightsaber.
Agreed!.✅
Sure... but then TLJ happens and she not only gets her ass kicked left and right, but her victory over Kylo is explained in a way that minimizes her accomplishment. She simply beat a very weakened version of him after what he did to his father. It's then hinted how much stronger he's gotten when he's assured of himself in the throne room fight, wherein he fights several guards at once, and meanwhile, Rey is getting knocked around by just one, though she manages to beat him eventually. And sure enough, when they have their rematch in TROS, she loses. She gets the last stab only because of Leia's outside interference, but if not for that, Kylo would have won clean.
So really, it makes more sense to compare her in TLJ to Luke in ESB, the dark midpoint of the trilogy. Since it would make just as little sense to say Luke had no struggle because he took out the planet-destroying Death Star in his first ever flight in an X-wing.
@@damkylan3 Luke was an experienced pilot. Rey thought the Force was a Myth. Your argument falls flat on its face
You can write a story where the protagonist is OP. A good story necessitates a struggle, but the struggle doesn't have to be physical.
That's because Kylo is a loser too. If Starkiller (Galen Marek) was in these movies he would have completely destroyed Rey, Kylo, Snoke, Palpatine and the entire First Order in two secs.
Rey's (personal) motivation throughout movies 7 and 8: Her family.
What palpatine is to rey: her family.
What palpatine offers rey: *power*
Such a missed opportunity
Yeah.. going the family angle would have at least been a little bit better than just repeating Luke's arc into this godawful movie.. at the very least, it would have made some modicum of sense.. this was just lazy
@@SK008 I mean, there are so many incredibly obvious little things tha wod improve the story so much, I often think they messed it up on purpose
@@Medaumplay3 honestly after TLJ's weird twists and turns, nothing would have saved the story.. but they still could have done a few things better.. some simple fixes could have made the plot coherent.. but it is just lazy writing.. I am not sure if they intentionally ruined this movie.. but they did a hell of a job wasting time and resources on this movie...
To be fair, her parents are super dead, and I’m not sure she’d really be down to spend Life Day at Grandpappy Palpatine’s secret Sith lair.
@@finalfroggitapproaches6418 Ehh, true. Still better than offering her "ultimate power" when that's never been what she was after, and also ignoring the ludicrous amount of power she already had.
Sheev Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith: _Manipulates Anakin into doing his bidding by playing on his basic, fundamental character flaws and character strengths, those being fear of loss and his desire to protect and avenge the people he lost at any moral cost. Doesn’t ever truly show how evil he is to his pupil until he’s squarely under his thumb_
Sheev Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker: _cackles menacingly and shoots lightning at everyone_
Palpatine was so great in the prequels. Horrible waste of potential.
You think he would’ve learned his lesson with force lightning after losing to Windu(Lucas confirmed palpatine ACTUALLY lost he wasn’t faking it) and then getting screwed over by Anakin in Return of the Jedi, palpatine is so powerful why didn’t he just use another ability, he lifted thousands of star destroyers up didn’t he why does he continue to use something that almost got him killed and eventually DID get him killed, he may be a clone but he’s definitely aware of the events of the prequels and the originals judging by how he quoted a prequel line
True, but granted he couldn't really pull the same tricks as he did with Anakin cause the entire galaxy knows he's evil and...well...he looks like THAT
But yeah, his potential was lost overall
Honestly, I know the first two prequels get a lot of hate for the awkward lovestory and the clumsy dialogue, but you can't deny that the overarching storyline of the prequels is well thought out and the third movie is a masterpiece.
@Skeleton Masher thats the point, he was just chucked in at the last moment because they realised they had no other way to finish this shitty movie
I feel bad for John Boyega, he’s a very good actor and a true Star Wars fan. Imagine being a big Star Wars fan and they gave you a crappy role in the worst Star Wars movies of all time
It's like Sony did for Andrew Garfield.
Yeah i've seen long compilations of him just saying like "it's ok" but you can tell how awful he thinks it is, feel bad
I wish I was a director and I could hire him for a space movie and make him the serious, pained character he was supposed to be, just to rub it in Disney's face. Then never work again.
At least he's not Marie Tran... or Ahmed Best, or Hayden Christiansen, or Jake Lloyd....
JOHN BOYEGA did nothing wrong, he is a precious marshmellow who must be protected.
HE did great.
The last scene of ROTJ with Han, Luke, Leia and everyone else feels like coming home and celebrating with family.
At the end of the sequels, I've just lost my whole family for no reason at all and I'm left with a bunch of strangers.
Yeah, the cast of the Sequels all feel like strangers. With the exception of original characters.
And it feels like the new characters are just hanging out together because the script told them to.
A lot of hack fraud writers don't know how to write OG characters. I'm watching Cobra Kai right now and THAT'S HOW YOU WRITE OG CHARACTERS. Daniel and Johnny have arcs that are connected and respectful to the original movies. They have personalities that are consistent with the original movies. They are not cardboard characters whose only role is to pass the torch to the new actors.
My thoughts exactly. I could have accepted the deaths of the OT..if they had spared Ben Solo. But not only did they kill him off, they did so in a manner that was an insult, then gave his name and family to the descendent of the Skywalkers' worst enemy. Rey is a Palpatine. Abrams' film was a thinly disguised slap in the face to fans of Ben/Kylo AND his family. Star Wars is dead to me now. I have zero interest in any of the 'new' characters post TROS.
I'm still just pretending the sequels never happened.
Your plot made me realize that in the movies Rey has no struggle. There is never a time where she or her friends are in danger, and she is unable to save them. We see Anakin unable to save his loved ones and that leads him to the dark side. But Rey never suffered any negative consequences. Never was she ever too weak to save someone or realize that if she uses the dark side she can save others. I think having her show some weakness like you mentioned would have made Palpatine's proposal significantly more dramatic.
Reys whole trilogy is on easy mode
Yeah whether you love the Prequels or not, at least it had story arcs and character arcs, all the structures that you need for a movie. The Disney Sequels are just a Tiktok compilation of unrelated clips. They stumble from one place to another until they end up in the climax.
Actually, it's more she never really expressed a desire to approach any of them, the exception being the end of the Last Jedi.
In the Force Awakens, she runs away, gets captured, rescues herself and ultimately is tracked down by Finn who went on an incredibly reckless mission just to find her.
The Last Jedi, she spends most of it on her own quest, seeks Ben out first, then approaches the Resistance afterwards.
Return of, she doesn't really work with the others very much at all. She's on her own quest that they are accompanying her on, fails to rescue "chewie" (who is detained off screen by an antagonist who has practically no on screen presence, aside from posing like MCR groupies) and when she finds out he's actually alive? It's the others that actually goes to rescue him, she's just off on her own quest. Then flatly shoves Finn away and proceeds to have nothing to do with anyone for the rest of the movie, she goes to an island to hide, is talked out of it by someone who is dead, goes to Exogol by herself and is sought out again by Kylo.
My issue was not her power, but that she never sought out anyone unless it was directly related to a personal goal. There are some interesting things, like her and Ben's common connection of not belonging anywhere, but I never felt she really cared about anyone around her, not really. Which is a pity because I feel Daisy was certainly capable of being a empathic character, just she spent most of the latter two movies on her own journey, that doesn't really anchor her to anyone around her.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too, infinite times more powerful than full potential Anakin Skywalker. She is also the best starship captain, no one can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills and also her full potential.
Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy?
Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker and Palpatine, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories.
She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess.
Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side.
Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it.
Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars.
Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history.
Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful.
Palpatine shouldn't have frightened Rey when he met her, he should have warmly welcomed her like his long-lost granddaughter. This would have made it more difficult for Rey to oppose him. A sympathetic villain is more difficult to deal with. Make Rey feel that it would be wrong to kill him. Make Rey feel guilty for wanting to kill him. Make her realize that she's about to destroy the only family that she has. Make her struggle over the decision to kill, not merely struggle to perform the act itself. Make Palpatine wily, not just powerful.
I agree except it’s kinda hard to make a guy with no working spine, fingers, or pupils a cute grandpa
Brendan McMahan I guess, but them bringing back Palpatine the mastermind for first 6 episodes only to shit on him, ruined the movie from get go. Palpatine looked an aging senator in first 3 movies, so they could’ve just done some bullshit and make him a normal looking human again 😂. Maybe then the story would make a little bit more sense.
He literally did that.
@@iShawrav They did that in Rebels. While that is a plodding, tonally inconsistent show, it's only slightly better than this film.
That would be good if the previous movies didn't exist and we haven't seen what he can do.
Movie: "somehow, palpatine has returned"
Me: somehow, my desire to watch this movie hasn't
Rise of skywalker is an airplane movie. I just pull it up when I’m on a flight so I can go crazy mentally pointing out all of the writing mistakes in that garbage pile.
@@justoons2949 That might be the only way to stop people from leaving.
@@florianfreiberger7212 careful though... you don't want people hopping out of the airplane to avoid watching it.
I really only liked the scene where the fleet of ships arrived in the final battle, not because it was well written, but because it was visually appealing and the music was good
That’s about it, it was fun mindless action
@@logeyperogi1805 to me that scene fell flat too. I can see how you might have enjoyed it, many ships and a quality musical score, but I've seen so many similar scenes (in Avengers endgame, Halo trilogy, etc.) that have come from well written franchises, so I'm used to seeing a scene like that in accompaniment with emotional buildup. and without the story filled, emotionally driven buildup to the scene, it seemed empty to me.
Luke: arguably one of the best and coolest characters ever written
Anakin: literally the chosen one, became one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, saved his son in a moment of redemption
Rey “Skywalker”: hehe force go brrrrrrrrrrr
You’re giving way too much credit to Luke, there’s not that much to the character.
@@MrRyan-wu4jx Well... The legends Luke is badass
@@MrRyan-wu4jx The canon is actually good too. Not on the "sequel" though
@@Player-257 I just don’t feel like there’s enough middle ground in between his progression from insufferable whiny brat to pompous cold Jedi master. I’ve only seen the films, I’m sure there’s more to it in other media but most people don’t go deeper than just what’s presented in the movies.
@@MrRyan-wu4jx Well that's the problem with the sequels as well...
Instead of (pretend)killing Chewie using Dark Force powers, what if Rey had *saved* Chewie with those powers instead - a powerful temptation to turn to the Dark Side. Then maybe later on, another friend is in peril, and it appears as though Rey has to choose between letting them die or using her Dark Side powers. But instead, she brilliantly finds a way to save her friend while relying only on the Light Side...
they literally never knew what to do with Rey shes a stranger from the beginning to the end
@Captain McDog Johnson took her in a pretty interesting direction with the whole ‘parents are nobody thing’. Her arc in this movie could have built on that and had it be about finding greatness within oneself. But TLJ bad so I guess we go with this contrived dark side temptation plot.
@@codingtime1711 Well it would have been great if she wasn’t super powerful from the start too. The Force is linked to self-actualization as well I think, so it should grow stronger as she comes to terms with herself.
@@wannabehistorian371 or at least explain why she is powerful (other than bloodline :/)
@@codingtime1711 even if TLJ wasn’t good, it still had some interesting ideas (like Kylo learning that he can’t be Darth Vader but it was executed poorly, or Kylo thinking to only focus on the future so that he won’t be reminded of his past, again executed a bit poorly, etc) it’s just the execution and his lack of knowledge of Star Wars that makes his film not good
@@raafeyplayz7015 Yup. It’s pretty symbolic of the sequel trilogy lol. I keep hearing TLJ fans going on about themes and it actually makes me like it less because the themes are good and could have been in a better movie.
Rian’s bread and butter is making his own original stuff and not sequels or adaptations, which you could argue is actually more admirable. I just have to wonder why oh why it had to be the guy Lucasfilm hired. Especially in combination with the guy known for mystery boxes.
This movie makes me sad in the same way that Game of Thrones Season 8 makes me sad. Amazing filmmaking, acting, sound design, visual effects, and score ruined by horrible writing.
same with doctor who series 12 finale
Basically, Jedi Ghosts can use powers in the real world and Force Healing can bring back the dead, so no one should ever have to die in this Galaxy anymore since a ghost can just show up anywhere at anytime and cure death now.
@@Edax_Royeaux I'm imagining Anakin Skywalker realizing that he could do all of that and just breaking down into tears.
@@pokemonmaster0079 Huh. I guess he didn't need the dark side after all.
@@Edax_Royeaux
Well Ach-to is pretty much a light side nexus. Makes sense the force ghosts influence the physical realm there. Luke can influence matter that is deeply connected with him, the saber, the ship. It's all like how Obi wan moved vines and sat on trees on Dagobah, which if I am correct is a light side nexus as well?
Rey had a lot of potential to be a great character with tons of development. Maybe portray her as an individual who didn't know her origins and didn't even care too much about becoming a Jedi master or learning the ways of the force but simply wanted to leave Jakuu to do something different, but with some prodding from Luke and his friends, she slowly became more focused and more dedicated and ultimately became the hero of the trilogy.
See? The character had potential! But Disney fucked up so badly after, I can't even tell...
A great example of a character choosing a want over their need (7:40) is ATLA, where Zuko in the S2 Finale chooses to side with the Fire Nation and his sister against the Avatar and his uncle. He WANTS his father's approval and to go home, be prince again. But he needs to realize the atrocities of the fire nation and reconcile them by helping to restore balance to the world. While he eventually gets there in S3, in S2 the audience and characters really don't know what he will choose.
To this day, I love seeing my friends and how BETRAYED they feel when Zuko turns on Aang. I really wish these sequel movies could have channeled some of that energy.
One of my favorite aspects of ATLA is how Aang and Zuko are foils of each other. Aang has an internal want and an external need - he WANTS to be a normal kid and hang out with his friends, but he NEEDS to be the Avatar and save the world. By contrast, Zuko has an external want and an internal need - he WANTS to please his father and follow the path his father laid out for him, but he NEEDS to learn to follow his own destiny and be his own man. Imagine if Rey and Kylo had a similar dynamic. The sequel trilogy could have been amazing, but we got a poorly planned out story that ruined classic characters.
The fact that Rey is the exact same character at the end of TROS as the beginning of TFA is the biggest flaw. What changed about her character over the course of 3 films? Literally her last name. That’s the entire point of her character. She learned nothing and didn’t go through any sort of growth from being a scavenger. Think about where Luke starts and ends in his arc, also Anakin, or look at a different series like Frodo in TLOR. Kylo is the only one who may have gone through some sort of arc but it’s still not that inspiring. Bad writing and a lack of planning ruined these movies.
Most recently with Fallen Order as well, set five years after Episode III. You play as Cal Kestis, a former Padawan and survivor of Order 66 who feels guilt over his master's death. He actually fails several times over the course of the game, and his doubt really starts to settle in the second time you go to Kashyyyk, so when he finally gets to Dathomir, his fear overwhelms him and the kyber crystal in his lightsaber shatters. The game has a masterfully-written hero's journey for Cal as he grows in character. The writers at Respawn Entertainment (the same people that gave us the wonderful but brief story for Titanfall 2) did such a better job at writing character arcs than Abrams and Johnson.
In fact, Cal's new unofficial master, Cere Junda, was tortured by the Empire and she reveals early on that she used the dark side to escape, subsequently cutting herself off from the Force because the power scared her. Even Cal's droid, BD-1, has a minor character arc in the game through the cutscenes. It's a game I'd recommend to anyone who is a Star Wars fan.
Lack of planning was the issue. If they were going to have different filmmakers with different sensibilities making these movies, having a coherent overall plan was vital. Instead we've got this jumbled meandering mess.
-I'd rather have the trilogy focus on Kylo's journey-
@@Kevin-hx2ky Kylo Ren's redemption should have been the focus of the 3rd film. That moment when he comes back to the light should have been cathartic and triumphant. Instead I felt nothing. He doesn't even speak during the last act of TROS . WTF?
To the people who watched RoS, are you convinced that stealing is wrong?
When the review is more memorable then the movie
I breath star wars and steven universe rants.
Ba frate eu nu mai tin minte nimic din film dar am fost la cinema cand a aparut.....
@@Andrew1990R JD die jdidnebejdieke did sjdjdj ejdjd ejddne dj jdjd
It's incredible how one dude made a better story in a couple weeks tops, than a team of writers who had presumably much longer and much better pay.
I've never understood why they gave the sequels to people who either lack creativity (JJ) or appear to hate the series (Rian). The Rings of Power has the same issue, that it's creators don't seem to care for the source material
I heard rumors that the "Sequel" trilogy has been decanonized secretly by Dave Filoni through The Mandalorian.
I hope they keep the characters like Poe, Finn, And several iconic ones on the new timeline
The sequel trilogy as a whole needs to be destroyed.
Perhaps that's what he wrote the between worlds with Ezra Bridger for... so Ezra can save us from a horrible fate.
Who is Poe???? Finn, probably, is the ex stormtrooper, but who is Poe???? Pilot-guy?
@@mordith6126 yes, pilot guy
The rumor isn't true. It just gain propagation because it's what some want to hear. They aren't doing that.
Alternative Title:
"Nerd single-handedly rewrites the script of a movie that took weeks to make, makes it epic!"
weeks? i think it took a bit longer than that bud
@@floo1465 it should, but for Rise Of Skywalker it probably didn’t
Doctors hate him! I mean writers hate him!
@@anatoldenevers237 Disney was recutting and reshooting The Rise of Palpatine up until the last minute, so I'm sure the script got a little more work than that. Not terribly productive work, but more work nonetheless.
*Chad
God, that arc you came up with would’ve made Rey into a really likable character. I think it’s brilliant how it’s almost like Anakin’s journey, except she unlike him wouldn’t fall to the temptation. I would’ve loved this film if that’s how it went, maybe she could even have a vision of Anakin where he warns her not to make the same mistake he did...
Ruby Scoville could’ve been some interesting mirroring with how Kylo/Ben often taps into Vadar as an inspiration for embracing the dark side (hence the helmet he keeps) while Rey would have Anakin as someone to take inspiration from even though they’re clearly two halves of the same character.
Callum H Oh that's brilliant! It's so sad how this film turned out, it had a lot of potential.
Is it possible to like a comment twice?
Paraphrasing George Lucas: "It's poetry, it rhymes"
Ruby Scoville I love how many people defend this movie too, saying it’s only bad because of the last jedi. I’m like no, it’s bad because it’s bad. Have you seen the three Thor movies, the first two are really bland, but the third one is one of my favorite MCU films.
I would’ve loved to see a twist where Rey does go fully to the dark side after all this build up in temptation, but on the other side of the spectrum, Kylo becomes progressively more lenient to the light because of his fathers and Luke’s words ringing in his head. By their final conflict at the Death Star, the energy fully shifts and we visually see either with a swap in blue and red lighting or maybe somewhere in the fight they swap weapons, but we see the final change. Ben Solo/Skywalker VS Rey Palpatine, the real Rise of Skywalker was his journey all along.
Now THIS is a MUCH better plot.
Now THIS is a MUCH better plot.
I thought this might've been about how Finn was robbed of literally every character opportunity he ever had, but this is also great!
30 years later in Star Wars Episode XVII: "Somehow, Palpatine has returned."
EDIT: Wow. A year ago I made this. Insane knowing more than 1.4k people liked this. Honestly, kinda hope they don't actually do this in the future, just hope they make new villains if they continue the Star Wars Saga.
You made me spit my drink laughing.
And they'll have forgotten about the existence of jetpacks all over again.
Underrated comment
the reverse flash of star wars
what's sad is its probably true
I thought you were saying "black male" for a while cause of that cut to a literal black male. I was confused for a minute lol
Same here
Same just put a comment about that too lol
same lmao
I think he wanted to make a pun ; p
@@nicholasleclerc1583 He probably did. I wasn't expecting that lol
I love how he can make up a better story on the spot than all the "revered" writers that Disney hired to make the movie could do in weeks.
Just one suggestion - force lightning can't just be used by accident (Disney got this wrong as well). It is an ability that you have to train for extensively to master. In Rey's fight with Kylo, her use of the dark side could be a little more subtle, like getting into a battle frenzy and that being the reason she defeats him. Then, while she explores the range of the dark side, she slowly looks at the more difficult abilities, using her anger, utilising force choke, and eventually beginning to use force lightning.
My biggest problem with Kylo is that I'm not afraid of him our heroes bested him TWICE already... While Vader... Luke was bested by him every time (besides the trench run but Vader was distracted) until LUKE gives up to rage and then WON seeing the similarities between him and his father...
Saying this movie's plot progression is like a videogame's is an insult to videogame writers from here all the way back to the 90's
I wouldnt really say that, the main character in most cases has no character BUT with less focus on the player, the world of the game can become creative and amazing to explore.
maybe not 90's, but look at what Halo accomplished 20 years ago, or Mass Effect
@@danteaghoulfromspace2996 actually, Dark Forces 2 (1997) did a pretty good job of expanding the main character from Dark Forces (1995), although the cutscene quality was a bit laughable, the character development was good. definitely better than any star wars sequel.
yeah, shadowman basically had one of the coolest plots of any videogame ever.
In terms of basic structure it's "beat the dungeon, get the thing, beat the dungeon, get the thing, use the thing to unlock the boss, win." Same as most Zelda stories since 1986, and while many of those Zelda games have stories 10 times better than Rise of Skywalker, it's not the plot structure that makes a Zelda story good but the characters and the themes. The point of the comparison is to say that if you use that plot structure it better be because you're focusing on good characters and themes, which RoS doesn't have.
The sequels just prove how good the character development was in the prequels.
Just because the sequels suck, it doesn't make the prequels good. The prequels don't suck as hard as the sequels, but they definitely suck.
@@jamesedward3619 that’s so not true
@@will8779 It's not true that just because the sequels suck, it doesn't make the prequels good?
@@jamesedward3619 It's not true that they suck. They're not as good as the originals, but they're still pretty okay movies. Enjoyable experiences at the very least.
@@who_the_fuck_is_riley5813 Nah, they suck bro. They're so boring and tedious, the writing is atrocious, the acting is mostly terrible with very few exceptions, the over abundance of CGI and green screen environments render them too artificial and sterile to be engaging or immersive, the fight sequences are overly choreographed, they "tell don't show" more often than "show don't tell" when it comes to character traits and relationships, the romance between Anakin and Padme is awkward, so uncomfortable, and lacking in any chemistry or believability whatsoever, Palpatine's plans (both micro and macro) make no sense, his micro plans routinely contradict his macro goals, and they rely on way too many coincidences; and the plot holes and inconsistencies between details in the prequels compared with the originals (and even compared with each other sometimes) make them of dubious canonicity and betray the laziness and carelessness with which they were written and integrated into the overall narrative and lore of the Star Wars universe.
It's possible to enjoy movies that suck. I enjoy "Batman and Robin" and "The Room". It doesn't mean they don't suck though. And from a narrative and film making perspective, the prequels are objectively of poor quality (just like "Batman and Robin", "The Room", and the sequels, though not at all to such a degree).
I love how by making Rey's character arch better, you're turning it into what Anakin's arch was. "I want more. But i know i shouldn't", nightmares about Padmé dying, "even save the ones you love, from dying", "is it possible to learn this power?" "Im more powerful than the Chancellor, i can overthrow him"
this rewrite actually gave me chills, i really want to rewatch the film with ur plot
I like that fans can make a better story than the high paid writers.
It says so much about the writers and the Lore and stuff they do not understand but the Fans do..
I don’t
Most fans can’t. In a fan base so large there’s bound to be some very talented and creative people who could have written much better stories, and as bad as TROS was, fans are better at pointing out what went wrong than actually building a story from the ground up. Most people who try to rewrite the movie still use Abrams’ and Terrio’s core as foundation
Don't forget those writers have to limit themselves to A) fixing TLJ and B) gets it all approved by Kathleen Kennedy. So not their fault as much.
It’s not the actors fault you know... it’s the writers and directors fault. They made the movie
Can we talk about how this completely spat on Anakins sacrifice and him bringing balance to the force.
And they ALMOST had a VADER force Ghost in TFA...a Anakin/Vader conflicted force ghost...its in the art book of TFA...that just completely proves they don't understand Anakin's journey or Star Wars all together...what a farce.
The sequels from the get go destroys every sacrifice and progress made by the previous 6 movies/the series/all the novels as a whole.
@@Death_Korps_Officer The WHOLE point of 1-6 is to show that however powerful you are, the only way to achieve true power, immortality and come back as a force ghost is through love and compassion, not greed and hatred. That is why the dark side users can never come back from death and why light will always win over darkness. And now Palpatine "somehow" returned...because Johnson killed off the "main" villain just to show us he was better then us.
@@JJourdenaisART or if they reveal that, like in dark empire, or with darth sion (i think) doing it through the dark side cuases you to essentially fall apart and degrade. palps clone bodies began ageing really fast and go insane and stuff.
This whole trilogy spat on everything that came before. Character arcs are wiped away, previous victories are meaningless, and established rules mean nothing. It feels like it was made by people who really don’t care about Star Wars at all.
Looking at how they treated Han, Luke, and Leia I’m perplexed as to why they even brought those characters back.
The way you made a scenario of Rey falling to the Dark Side that would be an amazing story I would ACTUALLY love
Yeah, especially when everything came so easily to her, she never struggled, she never failed, she's amazingly powerful and talented. That kind of success and lack of effort leads to arrogance, entitlement is an easy path to the dark side.
@@PlanetZoidstar She struggled and failed in TLJ. A lot. She is manipulated and played for a fool by Snoke, and then he kicks her ass with no effort. She gets suckered in by Kylo's bullshit and ends up being completely wrong about him while Luke was right. Even her victory over Kylo in the first movie is made a mockery of by Snoke when he reveals that she only won because Kylo was severely weakened after his plan of killing Han to complete his shift to the dark side backfired on him.
People try so hard to forget TLJ that they've forgotten it addresses half their complaints about her.
@@damkylan3 Hmmmhh. Not really. Outside of getting clowned on by Snoke (he IS a Palpatine clone so it would have been unbelievable if she didn't get clowned on by him), whom is unceremoniously killed off by Kylo Ren moments later. Whom Rey is able to recover than faster AND escape offscreen all on her own from a crumbling Supremacy.
Except Rey ends up being right and Kylo is ultimately redeemed by her. He was wrong about her parents and Luke was wrong about Kylo (He felt Kylo was beyond saving but Rey believed - and she is proven right in RoS).
Even if Kylo was wounded he STILL lost to an untrained force user in her very first Lightsaber fight. A win is a win and she humiliated him. Kylo being weakened by his killing Han (besides getting shot by Chewie, really Kylo should be DEAD from that attack) was a throwaway line to make her victory over him seem more believable.
I saw TLJ and I've seen multiple video essays dissecting every scene. It addresses some complaints (poorly) but it raises many, MANY more complaints. It is NOT a good film and existed purely to subvert expectations. It barely moves the plot forward, only the deaths of Snoke and Luke affect the status quo. Nothing else of substance happens. You could have them die offscreen and nothing would have changed between TFA and RoS.
I swear, Rey is literally the same as Kirito from Sword Art Online.
No, I’m serious. Let’s list it off.
She has multiple love interests lusting after her, despite the romance making absolutely no sense, just like Kirito.
She is unbelievably strong and simply unable to be defeated, except for when the enemy has admin privileges/cosmic force power, just like Kirito.
Her character development is nonexistent and she is just an absolute Mary Sue, JUST LIKE KIRITO.
There are a lot of Anime mc protagonist like Kirito but Yes Agreed, but there are just so many
If sao abriged fixed sao
Then perhaps a Tfa abriged might save it
@@boxtroxrequiem4882 lol no
@@diavolojaegar maybe
Kirito is better and is no
Wasn’t the whole point of her training to embrace her nature? To not fear her past? To accept who she is? How the heck does she then claim to be a Skywalker? The last word of the script should have been “Palpatine.” What a farce.
I think that the sequel trilogy, the same as the prequels but even more, tried to have a too broad and big story with lot's of elements in just 3 films.
The story couldve worked much better, if only the characters had gotten a lot more development through many films, not just 3.
There are a lot of issues I have with the movies, but to be honest, unlike most Star Wars fans I don't think that the movies are that good, none of them.
I love the star wars "universe", but movies are just meh. Still get emotional watching rots tho
They named the movie, and then realized it made no sense at all. So they were frantically looking for somewhere they could throw in ‘Skywalker’
I think she should have said „Just Rey“.
Then, they could have had an after-credits scene of her getting lynched by the Resistance - win/win!
[;' the original 3 Star Wars ate cult classics but ok
"Abrams clearly tries to give Rey a character arc and give this story some much needed internal conflict. I mean, he doesn't pull it off but he does try."
Do. Or do not. There _is_ no try.
Anyone who has watched the Abrams' Star Trek movies would be completely unsurprised how JJ trying comes no where close to succeeding. He goes through the motions and makes the cinematography pretty. That is all. It is not a valiant effort to sense your own work has problems and hope a superficial bandaid will be good enough.
@Tree House that is so sad, and so true! Poe and Finn might be her friends, but they can never relate. Luke is dead. Leia is dead. Hell, even Kylo, who is a deeply flawed human being is dead. Those are the people who hold power like her, and have to struggle with the seduction of the dark side, yet, even as he redeems himself, he dies. I know it was more him who seeked the connection with her, but she needed it too.
I think this is giving JJ to much credit
@@DorotaGabal we barely see the three bond much (except The Force Awakens). After TFA, they just either split or don’t really have moments with each other other than doing their mission.
@@raafeyplayz7015 Yes, finn is effectively reduced to a guy that just yells "REY" every time something needs to happen that he can't handle.
TFA gave us, at the very least, a relatively good character arc for Finn, but then after that they didn't do anything with him anymore. Not to mention The Last Jedi tried to paint Poe as an egocentric "mansplaining" douchebag when really all his actions in that film, barring the first scene, were justified.
I feel like it would be interesting if she actually went to the dark side and kylo came to the light side. It could be interesting to see how the characters change from each side of the force
Exactly
That reimagined plot was actually satisfying with the visuals seeming to correspond
Isn’t it sad for daisy? She is surely capable of acting way better than the „writers“ of this dumpster fire allowed her to.
Ikr. She is a fantastic actress who got the role of a lifetime and they failed her
Don’t know about that. There’s another video somewhere on here that points out her glaring flaws as an actress as well. The only one I can remember off the top of my head is that for every scene where she’s supposed to show “emotion” she just widens her eyes and has a mouth gap.
@@anonymousperson1706 i think the way she delivers her lines is fine but her facial expressions need work
I mean... if you think bugging her eyes out with her jaw slightly open is "acting" then sure. She's really good at that.
Even she doesn’t know why Rey exists
*"It's like Abrams was trying to make a cake by focusing exclusively on the frosting and, on the surface, it may look like [Rey's] degrading as a character, but the moment you take a bite you realize that this cake is just a shell of icing and at the center is a hollow core."*
It's almost as if Abrams likes to present audiences with a MYSTERY BOX that looks fancy and well-made... and then you open it and find it's empty.
skilled competent writers: people want a story with characters who grow and change
abrams: MYSTERY BOX!!!!
literally everything hes written on has been bad, cancelled, or both. id say he should stick to directing but the world has had enough unnecessary lense flare
As Geralt once said “it’s like getting a pie only to find it has no filling”
For whatever reason, JJ Abrams seems content presenting the mystery box but never the payoff.
@@rustyshackleford17 "For whatever reason, JJ Abrams seems content presenting the mystery box but never the payoff."
It's not that he is content, it is just that he is a bad writer. His entire TED talk about why he does mystery boxes with no pay off because the mystery box represents "hope" and all that BS is him trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and deflect that while he knows people like mysteries (with satisfying answers) he doesn't know how to write one. So, his solution, make people believe he writes completely unsatisfying MacGuffin mysteries on purpose because he "likes the mystery."
Pretty soon he will come out with a TED talk about how he doesn't like to actually write and develop characters because, "That's part of the mystery!" And all his scenes are essentially just characters talking about which plot point they need to jump to and show 30 seconds of before talking about the next one is also, "Part of the mystery, because showing the actual plot development ruins the mystery!"
I'm not agree, the box doesn't look very fancy either.. From the visual aspect , in photography, illumination, fx and in the choreography of the combat scenes is the worst film of the 3 Disney sequels It is a bad shell with a hollow core.
Damm I like how you essentially held up Anakin's character and arc in the PT (wants vs needs) and to show his progression to the dark side to show how bad a character arc Rey had. Like star wars vs star wars. Bravo
Awesome analysis, great thought process...always felt soemthing was missing in the movies, but was hard to put a finger on what could be done differently. Thanks for this!
how to fail at movie, everything
i would not go as far as calling this a movie. it's a product. and a very bad one too.
@@jwedelstoff7588 it's a several million dollar investment wrapped in star wars paper
Aweful Trilogy. If it was wiped from canon noone would care
Disagree with you there mate. I'd care massively. It would be so good to have these wiped from my mind
@@notsosecretsnacker5218 💀
@@notsosecretsnacker5218 you had us in the first half
The only thing humanity would miss if this trilogy was entirely wiped imo is BB8
It’s not canon. I don’t consider it canon. Star Wars ends after the second Death Star is destroyed and anakin turns into a force ghost
The character arc you laid out for rey is certainly way more interesting than what we actually got. But you forgot one very important thing: Female protagonists can't have flaws anymore. They can't fail at anything. Because if they do that "reinforces negative stereotypes that women are weak" or some other bullshit.
The she-roes journey isn't a journey made by the main character but by those around her. They change over the course of the film by coming to realize the female hero was perfect all along.
and this is how sexism perpetuates, by treating one as "other" even when you're pretending to be nice about it
It's funny that we love Star Wars so much that after the sequels came out, we wrote essays, made videos, used everything possible to try to understand what a fuck up they were. It's just incredible, hilarious, baffling and depressing.
“She can’t lift the boulder”
*remembers rock cave scene from the last jedi*
Yeah no way
But it’s a… bigger boulder…?
@@ISuperGenXI size matters not
@@ISuperGenXI It was a big rock...
Oh my god you're thinking like a Hollywood writer
@Epic Noah LMAO nah, I was talking as if I was someone who wanted to defend that plot point and had nothing to back it up
"...he panics and ham-fisted in a blackmail motivation..."
*camera pans to Finn*
Verge 😂😂That's why I thought it said "black male"
Literally that unfortunate pairing of shot and dialog made me hear "Black male motivation" and I was like 0_0
Me:
Did he say Blackmail or Black Male??
That's an old Spike Milligan joke.
The captions say 'black male motivation' and it deadass took me a whole 5 minutes to realise he meant 'blackmail motivation' 😂
When ray threw the lightsaber into the fire and we saw a force ghost catch it I was freaking out because I thought it was Anakin because it was his saber but nope, at least make the prophecy of the chosen one true by having Anakin be the one to persuade rey rather than Luke.
You created a great alternative story for Rei and that would have been way better to watch her act with conflict but you forgot.... She can't have an internal struggle or even a hint of a flaw in her character. They made her to be perfect from beginning to end!
The problem with giving Rey an arc is that she has no real flaws for her arc to fix. If she had shown that she wanted power or revenge or that she was selfish, we might have believed that she could flip to the dark side.
That is true. It's kind of like being forced to make dinner when the only things you have are ketchup and avocados. The only way to make her interesting is to throw in a bunch of flaws that the prior movies didn't set up.
Idk bruh she has a couple small ones. In half of TFA was her trying to get back to Jakku and not doing things because she decided she had already been gone too long. She is seduced by the dark side in TLJ at least twice with that dark side cave on Luke's island.
Luke had pretty much the same flaws. He didn't want to do anything in ANH at the beginning because he had to help his aunt and uncle. But they got killed, so he left. Then, he goes into the dark side cave with his weapons and "fails" in the words of Yoda. Then he leaves his training to go save his friends on Bespin, against Yoda and Obi-Wan's will. He embraces the dark side in ROTJ to beat Vader.
If anything, Rey has the same or even more of an arc than Luke. All Luke learned was that he shouldn't use the dark side, and that was at the very end of ROTJ.
I'm not discounting the originals, or saying that the sequels are perfect, but it's not like the originals are just this source of amazing character arcs. Luke learns a lesson at the very end. Leia stays the same. Han leaves smuggling and joins the Rebels. Just like with Kylo, the best arc comes from the dark side in the form of Vader. In ESB, Vader doesn't want to kill him. When Palpatine says that he should be killed, Vader pretty much pleads to Palps that Luke is "just a boy" and does everything in his power to turn him to the dark side instead of killing him. Then, in ep6, Luke knows he is conflicted and tries to bring him back, but Vader says it is too late for him. Vader knows that if Luke struck the Emperor down, he would join the dark side, so he stopped Luke's lightsaber from killing the Emperor. Luke uses the dark side to overpower Vader, and is then tortured by the Emperor. Vader the sacrifices his life to save his son.
@@unclearsector4266 being seduced by external forces because they got more going on than you do doesn't really show flaws, specially in fantasy when people can literally be mind controlled. I honestly don't care at all about how the original trilogy was or how the prequel were,that doesn't matter nor does it reflect the quality of movies that weren't even made by the same people,it doesn't matter if Phantom Menace sucks if you're talking about Empire Strikes Back because they're not the same movies.
Rey could've worked better as a paragon character from the end of Last Jedi where she comes back at the end to save the day, changing things around instead of being changed herself
I liked Rian Johnson's choice to make her parents 'nobodies', and her flaw was failing to accept this- opening up a whole new world of anti-chosen one writing opportunities. Apparently Abrams wasn't to keen
@@unclearsector4266 You're right. The Prequels and Originals serves and focuses on Vader's arc. The other characters in those films overall weren't as fleshed out as his.
But it's not like Luke doesn't have a good arc either. In the beginning he's too ambitious, always looking towards the future. He always wanted to leave home and go on an adventure throughout the Galaxy. He doesn't even grief that much about Owen and Beru charred and his homestead burned down, because he was finally freed from his responsibilities and restrictions. Obi-Wan told him about his father, who he then looked up to and wanted to be, and the Force, further fueling his curiosity and flame of adventure. Not to mention he was stubborn, clumsy, and ignorant; he couldn't keep his mouth shut for things he didn't know about.
The arc starts to develop in the next movie. Luke learns that the man he always looked up to is the same man he passionately hates, shattering his stubborn hope and kicked some sense of reality in him. The arc develops even more in ROTJ, when he trained with Yoda. He learned the importance of lying down for a bit and actually learn something from a master. He was taught to stop worrying about the future and instead live in the present moment. The rest goes as you have described.
IMO Luke's arc is much better than Rey's still. It's not really fair to compare those two arcs though, because if we're talking about the Sequels here, Kylo Ren's the main arc, maybe even one of the only characters who has an actual arc.
"Rey needs a want. Maybe on her obstacle course, she's failing at something?"
Writers: "You underestimate the power of our Mary Sue."
Fans: "Don't do it."
Writers: [does it]
Fans: [destroys them]
Writers: [screams]
Fans: You purchased the franchise disney! You were meant to revive Star Wars not destroy it. Bring balance to the fan base, not leave divided!
Writers: YOU'RE SEXIST!!!
Fans: you were my childhood. I loved you.
Fans: [Picks up OT trilogy dvd set and walks away]
Writers of Mulan (2020): Hold my terrible cgi phoenix
Mulan 2020 vs Rey when?
Like when Mulan practice the dumb Qi magic she got since birth, eaten by a blackhole and transfer her to Star Wars universe and fight against Rey who got the dumb Force magic she got since she is born. Mary Sue vs Mary Sue when?
Why do people keep saying she's a Mary Sue
@@chair803 first you need to look up the definition of the word then compare whether she matches the description
This is a fantastic improvement to the story! Oh my gosh! I always felt Rey was not fleshed out enough in elisodes 8 and 9 but couldn't put my finger on exactly what was wrong. I would love to see a fan edit of this movie that somehow incorporates these changes. Someone one day will make one I bet
And the meta-reason it can't work is because we know it's the end of the trilogy, so there's no chance. It would have been possible to leave the possibility open in the *middle* of the trilogy, since that would leave time for a redemption arc in the third film. (And, TBH, that could have been a really interesting through line for the trilogy!) But no, it's too late.
I can't be the only one that thought Kylo's turn around was more intriguing than Rey's...uh...realization?
Kylo was more interesting from start to finish of the trilogy. Ignore Rey's initial win because she's a mary sue and her ability to resist his power for now good reason, and you get a powerful, deadly warrior who is flawed. You see him first as a fierce warrior with great power and no mercy, then see him throw a tantrum, because he's a parody of vader. Then he has that tough moment where he kills his dad.
Second movie you see him decide he doesn't want to follow snoke, doesn't want to keep the cycle going, but also see the flawed way he's thinking about it, how jedi and sith need to be destroyed.
And then in the third, they tear down the facade he's been trying to put up. The powerful darksider front he's been putting up, his dad just tears down.
I am not going to lie, I literally thought he is the main character but the movie played it in a way that we do not see it until the end...
i honestly thought this movie was about Kylo, not Rey.
I was down with Kylo turning good and Rey falling to the dark side lol idk seems pretty good to me
Kylo Ren is the only not terrible part of the sequels, but that's not saying much tbh.
Palpatine: What are you? Chicken?!
Rey: No one calls me chicken!
Reminds me of that one scene in The Room
Chicken chicken cheeeerp chirp chirp chirp chirp
Papaltine: I'm all Turkey
Rey:And I'm all the Chicken
I feel like this is something that back to the future would say.
That reference tho lol
Legate Sotomayor
I laughed at this comment harder than I should’ve
You know… bringing up blackmail motivation… as you switched to a shot of Fin… gave me a little whiplash as i figured out what you were talking about 👀
Man I LOVE your rewrites of stories! Not only do you make the arc more compelling (I was really into it), but you also give actual writing advice. I write a story with 2 sibling MCs, and the idea is that they are all wrong with their ways somehow, and I still had struggles with how to flesh out one of them's wants, but finally you sprinkled the idea of an element I needed to make it a good character arc.
You know Luke was a whiny kid who just wanted to hang out with his friends and leave his dump of a home in the OG Star Wars, yet when prompted to go with Obi-wan he refuses at first until his home was burned and family killed. In Empire, he lets his emotions guide him, he's undisciplined and can't control his powers well due to the inner conflict and suffers for it. By the end in Return, he became a seasoned Jedi, able to keep composure in front of Jabba and even his father. He's truly putting his life on the line just for a chance to bring out the inner good in his father, and only when he gets lost in the dark side for a brief moment he realizes the path he's on is so slippery, and puts his life and faith on being a Jedi and asks for mercy from his father even in agonizing pain.
That was a character arc, the Luke in every movie is distinct from the last, and you could feel the time in between each movies through the character and how he evolved.
None of that for Rey. She feels the same in every movie. So disappointing. I also want to say they wasted a great cast, Daisy Ridley and John Boyega were awesome actors that could have made the roles work had they been given better stuff. Such wasted potential.
They even dress Luke differently in each film. In the DT Rey is in the same white cloths always.
@@oliverford5367
I guess they were too lazy to change the toy designs Idk. How could they pour so much money into something and yet it feels Disney and the writers didn't give a fuck to try. Like the actors, special effects, and all the technical people I believe gave 100% for these movies, but the executives and writers in charge let everyone down massively.
@@oliverford5367 If that's what you saw. Then you're blind.
Another important thing about Luke's arc in the og trilogy, and the arc of the whole gang, is that there is time to develop bonds and skills and personalities. You see changes in all of them between each movie because time has passed, and they've grown. Luke's abilities, Han's dedication to the cause, a renewed friendship with Lando, all of them.
In the new trilogy, the main three don't feel like an actual group until the third movie, and it doesn't really feel entirely real then for me. And even though they let time pass for Finn and Po to develop their cohesion and skills, Rey felt like an odd one out to me. Plus their characters were just not really interesting. The only one in my opinion that had a semblacne of an arc is Po. In the second movie, Po is the only one that seems to take anything away from his "arc"(if i have to call it that) and he sort of has more growth(shoved onto him) in the third one. Rey has no development at all over the trilogy and Finn is just a sack of wasted potential on all counts(They should have let him sacrifice himself in ep8, would have been the subversion the director was actually going for)
Kylo Ren has the best arc and character in the new trilogy. He grows between the movies, has things he clearly wants and strikes to get them.(And unlike Rey, he earned his abilities and skills)
@@oliverford5367 She has three different outfits.
This movie was a first draft. It seems like they didn't have time to go back and properly set up the story.
Uri Bassilian They were literally changing it as it was being filmed. The CEO of Disney kept forcing them to change things because he was thought it would please the fans more, but it turned out to be making it way worse.
I watched it yesterday and the pacing was just off. Story totally rushed, there was no real buy in with Rey we never saw the potential of what her power could be till the end. It was meh.
*First daft
I think Disney should've made a couple TV shows before making the trilogy. Just test the waters see what the fans like and get a feel for what the new trilogy should've been. I think they should've focused on the old republic. Instead they rushed into making the new trilogy before they had a good story.
I just don't understand how you wouldn't have written the whole thing before you make it. It's not the seventies and they weren't gonna hurt for funding so going movie by movie is stupid. You know you're doing a trilogy from the jump...how do you not just write it like a trilogy.
Just realised I have the same type of problem in my book- using the advice here means the problem is surprisingly easily solved. Thanks The Closer Look!
I got goosebumps when he explained his idea to better the plot. Why couldn’t they have just done that.
It would have been so good😭😭
why
That re-write on Rey's arc...
It's almost like you could dedicate a trilogy of movies to this.
This is what I would call the central issue with Rey's entire character. There is no arc; there is no flaw; there is no weakness; there is no struggle; there is no growth. The core concept behind creating tension is to establish what the characters can and can not do, their capabilities and limitations. This can be a specific set of morals, the need to grow in strength and maturity etc. You then place your characters into situations without easy solutions, which creates conflict, drama and tension.
Rey has none of this. Whenever she is presented with an issue she always gets an easy out, be it a plot convenience, a plot hole, an arbitrary deus ex machina or a bail-out by another character:
-Being chased by Stormtroopers? No worries she can fly a ship.
-Being chased by TIE fighters? No worries she can fly better than anyone else in any previous SW movie.
-Being shot at by a Stormtrooper? No worries she can shoot better than he can.
-Being captured by Kylo? No worries she can just mind trick the guard even though she found out the Force was real mere hours ago.
-Being trapped on a mobile laser-planet? No worries nobody notices her.
-Being forced into a lightsaber duel with Kylo where she is pushed into a backwards bend over a chasm where he can easily push her off? No worries, Force Kaio-ken comes to her aid and she beats him up.
-Falling into deep water? No worries she can swim just as well the next person even though she grew up in a desert.
-Being captured and completely helpless against Snoke? No worries Kylo is here to deus ex machina her out of the situation.
-Being tossed into quicksand and inexplicably losing her levitation powers? No worries there is actually a cave underneath.
-Being confronted by a giant snake creature? No worries it is injured and she is able to appease it by healing the wound with another power pulled out of her ass.
-Being unable to traverse the seas around the (sigh) Death Star wreckage? No worries she can do it no problem.
-Seemingly being beaten by Kylo? No worries Leia is there to die for her.
-Palpatine shooting his fleet-destroying lightning at her? No worries because "I am all the Jedi."
-Dying? Nope Kylo is here and miraculously unlocks healing powers as well.
She is essentially infallible. She never has to struggle and adapt and grow. The "lessons" that she is supposed to get don't amount to anything. When she does something that could be perceived as wrong, it never actually is because the outcome is always favorable and there are no consequences for her to grapple with. This means that her story has no tension, no relatability and no serious conflict.
well said. it's hard to root for a character who is by most definitions, perfect.
Exactly. Rey is just an extremely bland and flat character. It's one of the reasons I was sooooo disappointed when Kylo Ren/Ben Solo, an infinitely more interesting character, died while she lived and just, like, took on the Skywalker name almost randomly.
Absolutely agree. And because she is so great at everything it makes the rest of the cast useless. Why not have a one focus for her so that the others can fill some other roles and make teamwork happen?
Filip Stellberg wow that was so beautifully said. Honestly, they should have coaxed her with the darkness more and proved (just like all innately evil things) from the outside it may seem like all of your problems are solved, but in the long run you’re gonna get screwed.
I don’t understand why big box office films don’t just make their characters more (oh I don’t know) HUMAN! Having perfect characters like Captain Marvel and Superman are HIGHLY unrelatable. The audience they are trying to appeal to doesn’t exist.
"Being unable to traverse the seas...no worries, she can do it."
That sentence sums up her character perfectly.
Flippin' hell, you just fixed a bad movie with huge potential and managed to explain it in just under twenty minutes, really good job!
This video teached me a very good lesson on how to write conflict. I could use it to spice up so many stories now! This is brilliant! How is this not showcased in a film-making 101 class? You've built a better narrative which is cool and logical like it was first grade math!
Tbh, I'd still would love the movie to end with Rey turning to the dark side, and Flin becoming a jedi, but this build-up is just so perfect that I can't argue with it.
...or maybe I could use the technique I've just learned from this, to make it reasonable to have the ending I want... Nice.
The best part about this trilogy is that it's finally over
Oh sweet Gustavo do you honestly think this shit over?
This entire saga should have revolved around Finn; a stormtrooper turned good and one who eventually became a Jedi. Rey should have been the secondary main character, and she should have turned to the Dark Side with Kylo Ren and ultimately become more enamored with it even more so then Kylo due to her being the granddaughter of the most evil man in the galaxy. Kylo should have seen the Light near the middle of the third movie only to be betrayed and killed by Rey leaving Finn to fight her (who he deeply considered to be a great friend), whilst being his last test as a Jedi and leaving Luke to fight Palpatine in the final act of the last movie only to die, but not before seriously wounding Palpatine and leaving Finn to deliver the final blow with some help from the resistance.
The final movie should have been called: Duel of Two Fates. The fate of the Skywalkers against Palpatine and the fate of two friends who went down different paths ultimately clashing together. This shit literally writes itself.
That is a great idea for the trilogy we unfortunately received. It also would have wrapped up the idea of the Skywalker family as well.
Love this
Wow. You know what's funny to me, a friend and I were talking about this movie last week and he basically said the same thing you did, and I had the same basic plot as this video, except mine had some elements of your idea.
How a fan can make a better script then a bunch of idiots
Finn was my favorite part of TFA, then when i saw what they did to my boy in TLJ's trailers i knew i didn't have to watch that movie and i was right. Let's just send him off in a completely useless quest with an unsufferable new character.
How can you simultaneously be so good at this and not in a position to actually fix or prevent all these writing mistakes?! It’s not fair. I want your version of SW.
Your take on what they should of done with the Reys journey in the film is so much more entertaining than what we got. It gives her this venom spiderman type story with the dark side giving her the power she desires. This would of fit so well into the film and I just wonder how these writers dont think of this stuff. I think a lot of it is just not wanting to take chances/sticking with their gut. It just seems they contridict themselves in the writing section constantly.
11:20
Basically we give her the anakin RoS arc
That is what i was thinkinh
I agree, that is what I was thinking as he was going along. This just sounds like giving her Anakin's arrogance (hubris) and desire to be the most powerful to protect those he loves (because he is the only one who can).
Yea but she doesn’t fall to the dark side
But the outcome at the end would be different from anakin, despite the obvious similarities. For fans they would guess she'd embrace it only to be shocked she didnt, and did what anakin shouldve done. Sadly that didnt happen (id prefer them essentially copying a instance like that over what the movie actually gave us)
Omg ROS, Revenge of the Sith, Rise of Skywalker!
And the fact that Rey is overpowered so when someone offers her more power is redundant
Virgin Rey Chad Ahsoka
Patrick Mascarenhas Thad Shaak Ti
This video was very informative, not just as an observation of Star Wars, but it helped me with my own book. The main character in my book wants revenge on his people, who turned him into a killing machine without his consent. I wanted to give him a character arc that brings him down before bringing him back up again, and this helped. It's really tricky to lay out the events and realizations that lead to someone thinking their want is paramount (in the case of my MC, revenge) and then in their final confrontation, they remember all the red flags that came up along their journey, they realize that this is going too far, and they do a complete one-eighty. But this video helped me see how it could be done. Thanks!
“Endgame was made to be a macguffin hunt, TROS made itself a MacGuffin hunt”
Rey always had unlimited power, during the films she never needs more power because she does everything perfectly
Right? Like what could the Emperor ever offer her? Offering Rey more power in exchange for her service is like offering Jeff Bezos $10 to mow your lawn.
A true Palpatine if I’ve ever seen one. Glad this didn’t happen.
66 likes
I guess "unlimited power!!! " runs in the family
Wrong.
What is Rey's arc meant to be? She was independent and highly-capable from the beginning.
Making a character without flaw gives them no room to grow.
So was Luke bruh
@@unclearsector4266 wdym he relied on old Ben to do anything the entire first film
Unclear Sector luke has flaws
@@-Teague- Not really. Only getting on the Death Star and getting a pilot. He saved Leia, escaped the Death Star, then blew it up. Not to mention what he does in ESB and ROTJ
@@BozheTsaryaKhrani Luke has as many flaws as Rey. Their characters are practically the exact same, except that Rey is constantly looking for a family/parental figures. Luke isn't.
Not a single character in the sequel trilogy has a good arc. Most have no arc at all. Unreal stuff
The whole thing about Rey wondering who her parents were had me yawning.
2018 Closer Look: *Why this film is brilliant*
2019/20 Closer Look: *Why this film is utter wank and fails spectacularly*
Hey, mans got to get those views XD
@@TheCloserLook and also don't forget the decreasing state of quality films. And it seems like an franchises that's the only way they go
@@TheCloserLook But seriously mate, why not make some more positive videos, yeah?
@@masterpenguin8472 one learns more from other's failures and then explanation what could have been done differently, tna examples of what is done perfectly.
@@masterpenguin8472 his last video about knives out was positive, go watch that
So basically, you would give her the same temptations that Anakin had, but have her make the opposite choice. At least that would have kept with the consistent theme of Star Wars.
Hmm, if only we'd seen that before. Perhaps with one of Anakin's children...
That internal conflict would have made her more like Darth Vader than Kylo.
Still would have been better than what Disney did give us
Palpatine: Kill the girl
Palpatine a little later: let the girl take over kylo rens spot
A little later still: Give me both of your life energies
Your suggestion is great. It would be a *huge* improvement. The whole time Rey seemed perfectly incorruptible, with just a couple of understandable losses of temper under pressure. As you said, there was no tension and she was too bulletproof and perfect to be relatable.
I really like that you don't just crap on a movie, but instead, give suggestions about how it could have been better!
anything is an improvement. the groundwork of her becoming a gray jedi should have been laid out in EP8. the last movie isn't where you *begin* your character development, it's when you wrap it up! give the finale two movies and it could breathe, but that's not how JJ does things cuz 'breathing' means slowing down meaning you have to write and writing is hard, isn't it, JJ?
@@ryanbarker5217 You realize that JJ planted the seeds in EP7 then RJ burnt the field, right? EP9 was going to be a mess no matter what you did since it was left in a lockdown with the main characters arcs not been advanced and important characters killed off for no reason.
@@night1952 Yeah. If JJ followed the last jedi, Episode 9 would have been extremely boring and predictable:
Rey trains the new resistance and beats Kylo. The end. YAY!! SPACE WIZARDS!!
At least JJ tried (tried) to make it a bit more convoluted and less predictable.
criticism can be constructive if you learn to listen. it's hard to accept but if alarm goes of notifying the captain that his right wing plane engine has fail, screaming at the computer to ask it how to fix the engine midair wont help the captain...
Same here. I feel like I can process my frustration with a bad story when someone makes a constructively critical review of it.
The trilogy should have been about:
Rey turning Kylo good, or slipping to the dark side herself.
Finn overcoming Phasma and saving the stormtroopers (enslaved as children)
The rebellion/resistance, led by Poe, stopping the First Order taking over their planets.
Pretty simple stuff to stretch over three movies. Palpatine and the OG characters (Luke, Leia, Han) really didn't need to return.
Let the new characters take over.
You made me realize what I hate the most of this trilogy that I didn’t recognize before.
Thank you, I can finally stop watching Star Wars videos and move on.
And that's where it was going before TLJ. The OG characters were meant to return to pass the torch, but RJ ruined Luke and JJ had to use Leia as a replacement.
@@cowsquidman5679 What did you hate the most about this trilogy?
Mine was the OG characters returning and the new ones having botched arcs.
@@night1952 Yep. Really pissed me off.
I wouldn't mind the OG characters literally handing over the torch in TFA and then moving on.
Han dying was fine, Leia could have sacrificed herself, not Holdo. Luke could sacrifice himself to save the rebellion like in TLJ.
But do all that in the first movie and then set up the new guys for the remaining two movies to follow through with their arcs.
Most sensible comment I've seen in this thread
Oh man I loved this.. maybe the best fan theory/addition I've ever heard and I watch dozens of these a week. If we got to see a desert fight between Rey and Kyle that led to Rey mutilating Kylo it would've been so jaw dropping and brutally grounded
Dude, you are a genius! I love your videos and everything you've said in this clip is totally right on the money!! Keep up the good work!
Avengers has been about macguffins since day one.
The infinity stones were mentioned right at the beginning and have been the plot of singular movies from certain characters.
Star Wars plucked the way finder idea from their ass.
I mean, I didn't like Endgame for it though. It felt way too forced and unnatural and some of the character development/conflict, like Thor's, felt overdone.
While Infinity War felt like a movie that earned its run time, Endgame was a movie that was basically filler. The only thing that had real substance in the movie, for me, was Black Widow and the actual ending. Not the battle, that was pretty bad, the actual conclusion of the story.
It was a video game plot added to waste some time. It felt like they wanted to subvert expectations with Infinity War but were clueless on how to make a sequel. Its positive reception is one primarily built on fan favor for the series and pretty visuals. When you actually look at the story: A forced time travel arc where they try and get all the gems again. It kinda means nothing and feels clunky. And when you actually look at the characters, the only characters that actually develop in reasonable ways is Ironman and Blackwidow (finally).
This, so much. The infinite stones were an ever present threat in almost all of the movies. The way finder bs came out of nowhere
I'd argue that the when the Time Stone was introduced it was not very McGuffiny, we see how it's used (controls time) and its used to resolve Dr. Strange's movie (he uses time to trap Dormomu until he makes a deal, then reverses the damage the dark dimension created).
The Tesseract is veeeerrry McGuffiny though, what does it do? Power source? Teleportation? Stops knives??
@@beccag2758 Well, it's been shown many times that the infinity stones are all infinite sources of power. The mind stone was powering Loki's scepter and vision, the reality stone was in the ether that made the dark elves as powerful as they are, and the tesseract was used as a power source for countless weapons. It's safe to say that all of the infinity stones produce a generic power stream, it's only when used in the correct context that they show their unique powers.
Sad thing is it felt like Rey ended up being a Mcgoffin herself. Or more specifically, her family lineage.
Rey's character summed up:
Act 1 - Who am I really? Well, let's shelve that question for a potential future adventure.
Act 2 - Oh, I just found out who I really am, and it is disheartening to learn such a devastating truth.
Act 3 - Since I dislike my birth identity, let me just discard it and get a new one.
They could have sent Rey on a journey to clean the Palpatine family name. That would have been so much more compelling.
The Ray character was so Molly sue. Perfect. No mistakes. Instantly better at everything despite not having any training
*Mary
The whole "come join me in the dark side Rei" thing was the dumbest shit I have ever seen in Star Wars. Like, the sith are selfish, power hungry and wrathful, I can bet that not even one of them would hear the offer, stop and think "Oh yeah, giving away my body to Palpatine so he can take over and erase me from existence sure sounds thrilling and overall just a good bargain".
Don’t worry bro. I got you. 4:27
“I’ll tell you what, if you want to see a movie that actually has a good build up In its story but you have no way to access said movie, I recommend: Nord VPN. Nord VPN is...”
I would have gone for that fakeass story on how John Boyega supposedly left the movie script at the hotel room.
Thanks man.
The Closer Look Lol. You got it.😎
The rise of skywalker felt like getting socks as a kid on Christmas
ill extend the metaphore; the last jedi felt like knowing santa is not real
Molly Flogging No, that was Episode 1
Molly Flogging I think the last Jedi is more like watching you’re younger sibling getting all the gifts you ever wanted for Christmas, but when you ask where yours are you get a slap in the face and get told that’s the gift
@@dandan6819 Yeah, that one´s better XD
@@dandan6819 it subverted your expectations.
I love this sort of thing, imagining a rewrite of the new movies that improves them. Like, I really enjoyed Rogue One, but I really think it would have been better if when Jyn finally found Galen on Eadu she came to believe he was voluntarily working with the Empire, actually motivating her to join the Rebels when she thinks her father has turned. Rather than just having Galen die, he kills Krennic on Scarif instead of Cassian, allowing the plans to be sent to Leia and reuniting with his daughter before they are both destroyed by the Death Star.