How To Make Spider-Man Boring - Far From Home
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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Spider-man Far From Home had a critical flaw that held back the movie. In this video essay I analyse what it is and how it could have been fixed...
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Hey guys,
I thought I'd make this comment here because I'm seeing a lot of confusion as to the idea of what a want and need exactly are. I think I was unclear when I explained the concept so let me elaborate here.
The base idea of want: a want is exactly what it sounds like, it's what the character wants at the start of the story. However a need is something the character DOES NOT want at the start of the movie, but it is something they need, and it is pretty much always something they are unaware of/do not appreciate.
The base idea of need: the character's needs is to learn a lesson e.g: they need to learn to stand up for themselves (e.g is George Mcfly), they need to realise that being around loved ones is more important than privacy (e.g. is Shrek), they need to learn that family is the most important thing in the universe, and nothing is more important than it (e.g Darth Vader in 6).
Fundamentally, any character arc is the character learning a lesson, and using want vs need is a more specific way of formatting exactly what that lesson is, and how that character learns said lesson and thus, goes on said arc.
I hope I cleared things up,
- Henry
But his need was to come out of Tony's shadow amd believe in himself as a hero and accept himself as he is
His want is both to be Tony but also to have a holiday
His need is to have more faith in himself and step out of tony's shadow, and stop trying to make another iron man
At the beginning of the movie, spider-man "wants" nothing else than to go on a regular trip to Europe and spend time with his friends, to the extent where he tries to leave his suit at home. As the movie progresses he realizes more and more he "needs" to be the superhero he's made himself out to be, as saving people is more important than maintaining friendships in the life and line of work he's chosen. However by the end of the movie, it seems like he finds a happy medium being able to do both.
Edit: Tl;dr : he wants to be a normal teenager but needs to realize his responsibility as a superhero
Honestly man, I like your content, but I think you're confused about Peter's wants and needs yourself. You never addressed how my last point about Peter wanting to be responsible by saving his friends, beating Mysterio, and being independent of Tony aren't "needs".
*Uncle Ben dies*
Peter: I'd sleep.
*Uncle Stark dies*
Peter: *_R E A L S H I T_*
Watch Civil War
And I am bored with same kind of Spider man movies.
How a genius like Peter is still a poor
You Tubers World Wide Well one in this he’s a kid and doesn’t even have a job, and two him being Spider-Man barely allows for him to have a normal life/ getting a good job
@@averagebat761 in all movies and cartoons.
They always show him as either Students or photographer.
Who is poor or lower middle class.
I am tired of it. Let him grow. He his genius ,iq is 180-240 . But still poor. He can easily make money by selling gadgets, making industry.
I want to see him happy ,just give us
Parker Industry
You Tubers World Wide selling gadgets that could easily be put in the wrong hands like it always does... sure. Also the Parker Industries stuff was horrible in the comics
@@averagebat761 I am talking about gadgets. Not weapons.
He can invent Non Harming gadgets which will help normal people.
He literally made a watch phone , sold it and made Parker Industry. In comics
Spider-Man “needed” to get over the death of Tony. But the film didn’t explore that enough.
Pretty much replaced uncle ben with Tony stark and made it far less impactful
Jacob Wood copy and pasting the comics isn’t a good idea when 2 other franchises did the save thing.
Jacob Wood they can’t always be like the comics, or people would already know how the movies will go, there are only certain things that need to be comic accurate
VIO SCHOOL yeh except what he actually wanted was MJ. The video gets it completely wrong
Because the writer didn't know about Tony's death until basically the last minute. They did better than I would've expected, knowing that fact. But you right... not good enough.
“You’re not supposed to be the next iron man”
Next scene is him building a new suit with stark tech while acdc blasts in Happy’s spaceship 😑
He’s done that in the comica
I'm sorry, did he build an Iron Man suit?
@@masonwright7700 he never did. So stfu
@NICKYROO Yeah I agree with you. I think you misunderstood my comment. What I was trying to call attention to is that this guy's original comment implies that Peter is becoming the next Iron Man by building a Spider-Man suit. Which is the most idiotic ideology ever.
@@alexwisecup4167 if the Spider-Man suit is built by nothing but stark tech, allows you to fly, has emps in it, and an interface with talking A.I…then it’s not a Spider-Man suit. It’s basically an Iron man suit.
The jet scene is so weird to me. Happy tells him to not have to live up to Tony, but at the same time, they play ACDC, mirroring him to Tony. It feels contradictory. Like they don't know if they should fully go with the idea of Peter becoming his own man or fully embrace the idea of Peter taking over for Tony.
I mean they make a joke where Peter goes awe I love Led zeppelin
Meaning he isnt like tony that's how I took it
but Peter said its Led Zeppelin😂
The way to make that movie scene make sense is if they used a completely different band/song. What they did was completely mixed messaging.
You could try to twist it this way. Maybe this is one final send-off for Tony’s influence on Peter’s hero life. They’re making one final Spidersuit, with Tony’s ACDC music, on Tony’s jet, so he can get out there and be his own hero.
i saw it as that Peter was growing into himself, but into the leader position of Tony. He rose to Tony's leader status but is still his own person
Lest we forget from Homecoming:
"I understand. I just wanted to be like you."
"And I wanted you to be better."
good line from a better movie
@@saml302 good MCU movie, mediocre spider-man movie.
@@bonaconlodoset9264 So that means bad movie? Since hating the MCU is cool now because everyone should hate whatever is popular
@@mr.preston1632 no it’s that the MCU spiderman is nothing like the Spidermen that have been portrayed in any of his prior incarnations while also fulfilling none of his original themes. They’ve made this Peter a completely goofy character that flipflops on every decision and never makes a wholehearted choice without being impulsive. He also completely dismisses any reference towards Uncle Ben, the sole motivation for Peter to ever become Spiderman
@@Koolers20 Bro the character has always been goofy. Are you sure you're not an Andrew Garfield Spider-Man fanboy? This new Spiderman is meant to incorporate the old apsects of the character but with a fresh and innovative new angle. I honestly don't know why he gets so much hate
You can’t talk about good films without including shrek
After rewatching Shrek a couple weeks ago, I forgot how good that movie actually is.
It’s not Ogore...
*It’s never Ogore*
The Officer Friendly Ogre
@Manannan anam The last true masterpiece we created was Shrek 2
some
*🅱 O D Y*
The problem with the closer look is that he always has a better version of what the movie could be and we are all left without that better version in our lives.
That's the beauty of hindsight lol
It's kind of the bittersweet thing about art. Your imagination will always create something better
It's easier to take someone else's work and find improvements instead of creating something completely new.
@@cjtrules1 I think most competent screenwriters could write a much better movie than far from home.
As long as they actually know the character of Spider-man
@@Courier_333 I think this was an okay movie. Peter's internal conflict could have been shown better.
This is still way better than the mess that was Spider-Man 3 and Amazing Spider-Man 2.
Another issue that the movie had that I would like to bring up is this: tech vs. tech instead of tech vs. skill. They introduced all this fancy tech w/ drones and AIs and EMPs, but when it came to the skills, you get a *single* statement of the “Peter tingle” as a passing joke and then at the end, he uses it *flawlessly*. What was needed was a dichotomy: his tech telling him one thing and his skills/instincts telling him another. His tech telling him danger but his skills telling him safety. His skills telling him danger but his tech telling him safety. But over and over again, we only saw tech, tech, and more tech. We didn’t see his skills/instincts come in contrast to the tech until the last moment. If we had had one instance of the “Peter tingle” not telling him danger from the illusions or informing him of real danger from the drones at any point in the movie yet he ignores it for what his jammed/ broken tech tells him, then the final fight wouldn’t seem so odd in contrast to the movie. We’ve seen in the comics/other shows over and over that the spider sense is able to detect even hostile intent, yet throughout the movie, all we see is tech vs tech. His OG suit vs the drones leading him to get hit by a train, his new suit vs the drones causing EMPs to stop the drones. We never see his spider sense until it is way late into the movie and any chance to explore it is gone. This is what I liked about the first film better: *he didn’t need the suit*. He could have a hoodie, wool mask, goggles, and he could still kick butt as Spider-Man. And this was well established. The ferry splits apart, tech doesn’t work, so raw strength it is. The monument explodes, tech can’t help, but his intellect and skill can. That was what made the climax so powerful: without his tech, without his fancy gadgets, he lifts an entire building off himself using nothing but his determination and strength, things that have been established throughout the movie. Now look at the new movie and it’s heartbreaking to see how far Spider-Man has fallen. Every scene where there should be a tech skill dichotomy, reenforcing the idea that this is Spider-Man, not Iron Man, you see Stark Tech vs Stark Tech. It’s only at the last possible moment that Peter actually goes back to his skills to be the Spider-Man we know and love. That was what made the bridge scene the only Spider-Man moment in an otherwise Iron Man filled movie.
Jesus this is long
%100 agree
Even the scene in Homecoming where he lifts the building is bitten in the ass by Tony worship. The scene it pays homage to is the quintessential Spider-Man scene, where he lifts a collapsing underwater base while he thinks of his deceased Uncle Ben and now sick (his fault) Aunt May. Powerful stuff. But in Homecoming he gets a Mufasa from Tony and goes to collect his toys. Not quite the same.
except he never really used tech in the movie? the first fight with the water monster hes just in normal clothes. the lava monster, hes in the night monkey suit. in the illusion scene, he was still in his night monkey suit, his og suit was an illusion. in the final battle, yes hes in the stark suit, but the only time he really uses it is to send an electric shock. it was still just him, his webs, and his skill. this is just like saying "captain america is using a suit made by tony, therefore he relies on tony to be strong". same with falcon, hawkeye, and other avengers. tony literally said in age of ultron he makes everyones suits. is everyone iron boy jr? nah
the movie plays out pretty much the same regardless of the suits he wears. he gets plenty of opportunities to show his skill and is very self reliant and not very tech reliant. not sure why people are acting like its such a big deal.
@@majorjohnson1121 It's not truly about the suit, its about the message. What was all throughout the film was a focus on the tech, not on the skill. Sure, the tech may have been minor upgrades, but it was those upgrades that got all the attention. You never saw Peter's skills develop, you only saw his tech develop. It's like having Captain America say that he has psychic powers in a one off line, then spend the rest of the movie focusing on costume changes and new tools only to have him bust out those psychic powers in the final 3 seconds of the film and use them flawlessly to defeat the villain that kicked his butt not 30 minutes earlier. If Peter had such mastery of the "Peter Tingle" that he is able to dodge bullets and drones, why is he getting hit by a train? Why is he actually even getting injured at all if the tingle ignores illusions? And that's the problem. The tingle is a lazy cop out if we never see it developed. He is dodging bullets at point blank range using it, and yet he gets hit by a train which travels at a tenth of the speed. We never see him ignore or utilize it until this one moment.
*Thanos:* _REALITY CAN BE WHATEVER I WANT..._
*Mysterio:* ｐｉｚｚａ ｔｉｍｅ
Pizza lol
Agreed
Mr. Friendship 😆
Mr. Friendship Your profile pic just adds a new level of ham to this slice of cake.
@Star Killer wtf
It is illegal to point out legitimate flaws in a Marvel movie, sir.
Dont be biased, nothing is perfect
@@13rockwarrior not sure if you caught my sarcasm.
Yup, don't you know it is impossible for Kevin Feige to make a bad movie? He *knows* and *understands* these characters far better than even comic book writers!! MCU Peter aka Iron Man's sycophant aka Stark Jr is totally accurate to the comics guyysss!!!111
alexis lopez r/whoosh
alexis lopez you known he was joking right?
Tom Holland fan girls: “it’s treason then.”
Lmao
Tell me about it my little brother gets mad at me for not liking this movie
The majority of his fans are girls who don't understand Spider-Man lol.
“And I took that personally”
@@NYWallCrawler why is them being girls relevant?
So, while I respect the ideas you've put out there about Want/Need, I think you've missed those in this film. Peter WANTS to be a normal teenager and spend the summer with his friends in Europe. His WANT is to not have the burden of Spiderman for a little bit after the world-shaking events he's recently experienced and because, at the end of the day, he's a 16-year-old who likes a girl and is not ready to accept the grown-up mantle of being the next Tony Stark. Want = Be a normal teenager. The rest of the story is then about the world pushing him towards his need, which is to grow up and accept the responsibility (i.e. - with great power comes great responsibility) of what he must do now that Tony is dead and that is,...become the leader the world needs him to be. The monster/Mysterio are just catalysts to that end, they are not wants. And the giving up of the glasses to turn down that responsibility only to realize the consequences of doing that IS his arch from want to need.
He NEEDED to stop living in Stark's shadow, and become his own true-self.
He literally acknowledged this.
@@bigmonkeong By making a suit using stark tech and with the AC/DC soundtrack? For sure.
@@nick.19 I think we have come to a misunderstanding here. I too hated that scene.
@@bigmonkeong The point is, Spider-Man doesn't feel like he's come out from under Stark's shadow yet. This whole movie was supposed to be about him coming into his own, but by the end of the film he hasn't really changed at all. He has only superficially become "Spider-Man," but he doesn't really feel like he is Spider-Man yet.
@@B1gBoyPants True
want: to stop being spider-man. need: To remember/realize his responsibility
Like in the comics.
That was homecomings same want and need
Jackson Peck no it wasn’t. Homecomings want was to impress Tony and become a good hero. His need was to understand that he is still a teenager and his actions can have real consequences.
That's the plot of spider man 2 though
Holland’s wants and needs are never explicitly stated or mentioned. You just have to figure it out on your own, which is a problem I have with him.
edit: this comment is 1 year old I dont think this anymore okay
One of my thoughts is that he's just constantly going "whoaaaa", "aahhhh" , "oh noooo" "holy...", "that's so cool" and "how did I do that". It's like he's just reacting all the time and that's not interesting (I know tell that to the react channels on CZcams)
The Spider-Man most of us know makes constant jokes and turns the situation more light hearted. Yes, there are big stakes and dark moments but it's just a bit boring watching someone doing all these great things and being confused at it the whole time.
It's much more entertaining seeing someone know their abilities and reading their enemy, knowing their next move or making a joke out of them. That's what Spider-Man is good at, he is a genius and makes his enemies feel inferior, he toys with them and he makes them predictable. Watching him get confused about everything and everyone creates a much more dull experience.
Thank you. Glad someone put reaction spidey into words I couldn't.
Want: to be a normal kid
Need: to step up to the responsibility of being spider-man
In the movie for some reason it's the opposite and even though flipping it seems interesting, they don't really run with it.
@@porassrivastava8242 When was that? Pretty much at every point in the movie up to being targeted by Mysterio Spiderman is constantly trying to shirk responsibility and go on his school trip. At the end he chooses to confront Mysterio despite the risk and he has to do it himself
When I watched the film, it was a weird feeling.
After the movie ended, I liked the movie, but not that much. I didn’t think the movie was that great. Then I was surprised when I heard everyone talking about how cool and a masterpiece it was
Exactly!
Far From Home a masterpiece, whoever these people are they know how to joke around......hahaha masterpiece
Eddy Madison Peter was a weakling. Mysterio and the action were the good things coming from the movie. It’s just Peter who’s the issue. But I can agree, better than Homecoming.
It's a good, fun standalone movie but when you criticize it as a Spider-Man movie there are flaws.
Same.
Toy story 1: I need to be there for My kid no matter what.
Toy story 4: imma head out
Arrowinaknee 277
In other words: an arc.
Ti My
sure and Dany had a arc in the last season of game of thrones
thats part of his arc. theres more to life than one purpose.
Arrowinaknee 277 different topic but ok...
@@ayushshah2103 The arc would be more believable if it didn't undermine the messages in all of the other movies. The message was pretty consistent in the 3 other movies. *Life isn't worth living if you're not being loved by a kid*, and, *we need to stick together.* Then the 4th movie happens, the protagonist goes through a situation which he already experienced beforehand (Toy Story 1), but this time he chooses the opposite because of a romantic interest which basically makes the previous 3 movies messages moot.
Spider-Man at the begginning: "I don't want to be Tony Stark"
Spider-Man at the end: "I don't want to be Tony Stark"
No it's more like,
Before
I can't to be Tony Stark. I'm not good enough.
After
I don't need to be Tony Stark, Peter Parker is good enough.
It called learning to love and accept yourself.
@@SiddharthShenoy but that was already his arc in the last movie, and beyond that, he ends up only saving people because of Tony's stuff, Tony's suits, Tony's Glasses, Tony's Guidance, Tony's Webs, so the message doesn't get across that well
@@juannzarat yeah but I never felt this development, he learns to be a hero on his own in the first movie, but only saves people because of what Stark gave him in the second? Where's the development?
@Erik Kemeey He uses the homemade suit to defeat Vulture only to use nothing but Stark suits in literally all of his next appearances in the MCU.
@@3mbthelabel exactly, haven't watched No Way Home yet but Hope they changed that
Well said. My major issue with the movies lately is that every single time they do a Spidey franchise, the story either is flimsy or mediocre. Or it gets progressively worse over time. It’s like the writers bank on the fact that THIS IS SPIDER-MAN, but they aren’t writing about WHY Peter is Spider-Man, and I think that’s what is inherently missing.
I always thought Peter’s want was to be normal and shrug off the expectations, but he needed to step up despite never truly replacing Tony.
I agree with the want but not the need. The character is a hero and he just doesn't want the responsibility of being the next Iron Man. By the end of the movie he needs to take over for Stark.
He's already a hero during the vacation and as much as it gets in the way of his regular life, it's to become a Stark torch carrier. That's the need.
@@greygorygaming isn't the name Spider-Man in the title? what is he doing becoming iron man
@@shealupkes Ask the screenwriters.They're the ones who are clueless about Spidey.
@@greygorygaming did you not watch the second half of the film?? happy's whole speech about peter not needing to be the next iron man, the point of the film was pretty on the nose lol, everyone was saying he needs to step up and replace tony, by the end of the film he realised he does need to step up, but in his own way as his own hero, the "need" is to be a hero sure, but not to be the next iron man.
@@joehicks929 And 5 seconds after the speech he uses Stark tech to make his own suit. Nice.
The moral of the story: the film 'd be better with shrek as spider-man
Haha haha
“My Ogre Sense Is Tingling Someone’s On My Swamp, GET OUTTA MY SWAMP!”
Non-ironically
And they will still come out way better than MCU's Spiderman movies.
The thing about this movie... Parker don't f** do anything, he doesn't want to do anything, while in the previous movie he was the most active character between the other two Spidey.
Parker decides to relax and forget about his responsibility of being Spider-Man and tells Nick Fury to fuck off because.... Fury tells him to have responsibility.
I personally felt that Homecoming was trash. I didn’t think Spidey was good at all. It seemed like a movie for young children. There weren’t any good fight scenes
Exactly, Peter was so passive in this film, and it really felt like he didn't have any responsibility or any sense of moral obligation.
Throughout most of far from home, it felt like Peter only went to suit up was becuz Nick Fury told him too, not becuz he wanted to.
I kind of liked it in the beginning since often time being Spider-man for Peter isn't exactly something very enjoyable. It showed he was reluctant towards the suit and I liked that they showed Peter to not have this childish view of being a superhero anymore... At least until they completely had him ignoring the responsibility of being a hero, and, like everyone has said, being passive as hell
@@kjbeast677 that's one of the reasons why I sorta dislike ffh because it doesn't seem that peter didn't feel a moral obligation to help people when he should have
@@jimmartin3849 I think both the MCU Spider-Man movies are trash. He's good in the Avengers' movies but when the movie is about him his clumsy, inexperienced, kid-like gimmick gets repetitive as if they decided "lets have funny haha he's so clumsy moment then put a mediocre fight scene and call it a day".
i know i'm a bit late to the party on this video but i must say i really appreciate how you always offer an alternative route on your negative takes, it isn't just "i hate this this is bad garbage waaah" no, you break them down into primary bits and pieces and puzzle them together in a better way, it's hard not to respect that you at least make an effort to make sort of like a middle ground and i appreciate that, keep doing you Closer Look, love your stuff
I would argue that Peters “Want” and “Need” in _Far From Home_ are different than the ones proposed in this film.
Peter’s want in this film is his desire to be with MJ. It is expressed a multitude of times that Peter merely wants to be a “normal” kid, dating a girl he likes and so on and so forth. Peter is a young boy in this film who had experienced concepts far beyond his comprehension. He’s been to space, watched his second father figure sacrifice himself for the sake of the universe etc. The fact that the film, or rather Peter ignores this need is what highlights his struggle throughout the film. Peter attempting to juggle fighting both the Elementals as well as his personal life is a more implicit representation of the Want vs Need struggle.
As a result of this conflict, Peter nearly causes the death of two of his friends in the fight with the fire elemental, gets hit by a train due to his desire to save a fake MJ, and more explicitly: his Spider Sense goes on the fritz. Of course these sentiments could indeed been more actively portrayed in the film, which I in turn do agree with. However Peters passive nature in this film are required to set up for the conflict of the film, as having Peter actively seek his “need” in this film would thus result in many of the conflicts either not occurring or being solved outright.
This particular essay refers to Peter as Spider-Man the entire time, which I find rather interesting, _Far From Home_ hardly seemed like a Spider-Man film, _Into the Spiderverse_ was a Spider-Man film: as it goes over not only various backstories as well as being a character study in what it means to be Spider-Man. _Far From Home_ is a Peter Parker film, as it is the stories events do not portray a character study - but a representation of how one’s Wants vs Needs can henceforth, create further conflict. Passivity is what causes Peter to fail in his romantic and superhero ventures, and actively pursuing the process ends up leading Peter to becoming Iron Man - when he clearly isn’t ready nor fit for the role.
I do indeed want to go into further detail with my opinions on the subject, but I would need to get my work together as well as attempt and type in a PC as opposed to a mobile phone. Hopefully I can get someone else’s thoughts on this subject to better my writing and analysis.
Goldenaries 08 Michelle Jones*
this need to be pinned i totally agree with you,and i personally like that the recent spiderman mcu films, focus on the BOY behind the mask. Keep in mind that the whole of the mcu movies focus on the main characters and not their superhero alter egos, eg Iron Man.
Seconded. I find Closer Look’s opinions on MCU movies to be consistently off the mark and this is no exception. Of course Peter doesn’t have any strong emotions, he’s still traumatized. He’s not showing it, but he’s hurting. A lot. One thing everybody is overlooking is Peter’s need for a center. It’s why he wants to be with MJ, it’s why he latches onto Mysterio. They DID weave it into the plot, and the fact that he brushed off both instances is infuriating! The moment he provided as a great way to flesh out his need was so obvious and on the nose. I feel like he completely missed that Peter is passive because he’s overwhelmed and out of his depth as well.
Peter wanting to get with MJ isn't his main want though, his main want is to take a break from being Spidey and try to establish a somewhat nor al life. Getting with MJ is just a smaller want that leads to the bigger want.
This. The moment I heard him say the line about Peter's wants and needs not conflicting, I realized that The Closer Look most likely didn't pay attention to that movie, because it should be clear to most that Peter's want is to not be involved as much as possible and to live as normally a life as a boy with superpowers can. How he missed this is baffling. And he's using this as a foundation for the rest of his points and a faulty foundation leads to a broken conclusion.
What i've learnt from this video: *Shrek is a masterpiece*
It is and that’s why it won the oscsrs while non of the Spiderman films did
We already knew that
@@jobsmine spiderman into the spiderverse did
Like Boltneck?
@@alexlang5390 same
Dang man. I left the theatre liking the movie but I couldn’t help but feel that something was off or not fleshed out; great video!
I felt like that rewatching the movie
Same here. And tbh I felt the same way with homecoming but could never quite put my finger on why
Not to mention, Mysterio’s “want” (evil plan) didn’t make any sense. He’s trying to become the best superhero and replace Iron Man, but what happens when a real threat shows up? Is he planning to just disappear after the events of this movie? He can’t ever show his face in public again. None of this movie made any freaking sense.
Here’s how I summarized it after watching the movie:
More power, less responsibility.
Hahaa exactly
His responsibility was to not to trust everything that's given. There wasn't even actual powers in this, more just gadgets.
@Speedzone Speedforce and that too
@Christian Tompkins Didn't we spend an entire movie with Peter proving he doesn't need the gadgets but is capable of handling them? A whole movie of him choosing being a hero over the normal life stchick? If not, why did he leave the party of the girl he liked to go off and save people? The Peter Parker in this film would have just ignored the problem going "avengers will get it"
@@deliriouszora for a kid who's basically a Jedi, spider senses, mad reflexes, web that can make people do what he wants, super strength; gagets are for people who don't have any of that.
I thought they were really going to go all in on the sad!Peter Parker who’s torn apart by grief, in this movie. I was disappointed when it was mostly surface level.
The Remix Right? Like, he just lost a mentor and his third father figure. He also died and came back to life, all of that is pretty traumatizing.
The Remix Right? I feel that’s just Marvel though. I like the MCU but too often do they undercut serious emotional setups with little or no payoff in service of. “We’ve got to stuff as much comic stuff into the film as possible.” Honestly just even watching the characters be brought to life would be amazing. The MCU is so good at casting that they could have an entire movie with no comic book stuff/villains and just exist with the characters and it would be golden. Why do you think tumblr used to be obsessed with marvel headcanons where Clint climbs around in vents and stuff? Because it’s interesting.
@@AtomicHaven who was his second father figure
saad ahmed well he lost his actual father. Ben, and Tony.
@@AtomicHaven did he ever mention Ben in this incarnation
One of the biggest problems for me is Spiderman's suit, while the most developed versions of Spiderman have some kind of gadgets (Adult Peter with his own company, Superior Spiderman, PS4 Spiderman), they feel earned because they are an expression of Peter's development as a superhero and scientist. While, just having Ironman giving him what are basically magic suits is just too boring and lazy as a new Spiderman.
I'll be honest, I disagree regarding Superior Spider-Man, but the Peter Octavius Saga is I think best left forgotten.
One thing I've always enjoyed about Spider-Man is that he is such a self-sacrificing person. And I don't just mean sacrificing his life to save people, but the little things in life like sacrificing his time with friends or family and possibly weakening or destroying the relationships he has. Or skipping school to fight Doc Ock, thus losing the respect of his teachers and grades in order to save the day. Things like these were prevalent in the Raimi films, such as Spider-Man 2 when Peter had to sacrifice his friendship with MJ to stop a pair of robbers. Or back in Homecoming, Peter had to leave Liz at the Homecoming Dance, something he as a teenager had been looking forward to for a long time, in order to stop the Vulture. In Far From Home, Peter doesn't sacrifice anything; his friends are all alive and well, he gets the girl he has a crush on, and has pretty much everyone supporting him and being okay with his choices. Hell, even Aunt May, who is a mother figure for Peter, is somehow okay with Peter putting his life in danger nearly everyday and even after the whole battle with Mysterio she doesn't express any visible concern. And yes, I know there was a time skip so one could argue that during that time May grew to understand Peter's decision. However, we never get to actually see that and thus makes Aunt May, who should be one of the most important characters, a simple gag for comedic moments with Happy and Peter.
Peter didn't want to stop the monsters at all 😂 He wanted to stay with his class and fulfill his plan to get with MJ on the school trip away.
Spider-Man needed to come into his own as a hero, losing the self doubt he constantly faces about his ability to step up. He needed to realise that he's not Iron Man 2.0, but Spider-Man, his own hero.
And how he did this (Being itself)? Making a suit with Stark's tech and with AC/DC.
Seriously?
A Stark Tech suit means he's not his own hero? The Avengers building is owned by Stark. Does that mean the heroes who use it aren't their own heroes?
He's Spider-Man in a Stark Tech suit, just like how Captain America is Captain America with a Stark Tech shield. He's not a second... or... third? Iron Man.
Seriously.
@@pickleplus5032 so being himself is having absolutely no character development and stay the same the entire move
@@Pj_oota no not really, he was shackled and burdened by the impact tony created and focused on trying to be the next iron man when he should calm down and be his own hero
@@Pj_oota He did plenty in this movie your just trying to find excuses this point
I’d say another great character who is mostly just proactive in the story is John Wick.
Yeah, he's insanely active.
except for John Wick 2. That one’s pretty passive too
@@MyArmpitzAreWeaponzzIIIAMVs Well, until after the Marker is complete, that is. After that point John is the most active force.
I justpropaned I like John Wick
@@TheCloserLook The problem is. Or the question is WOULD this character actually take those actions? I dont believe he would go on his own and just seek out the elementals and do detective work like batman. Hes just a kid. As his chatacter it makes sense that he would have found out that way and went to Fury to inform him of whats happeneing. Thats what his character would do. Hes not batman. Hes this broozy geeky peter parker. A child making these decisions not a grown adult that works by himself.
I wonder what people think of this movie now that No Way Home is out. I feel as though it consummated what Peter was in this universe, making an actually amazing trilogy, however I won't lie I found this movie specifically to be somewhat forgettable other than Mysterio.
It is a great trilogy but this one was the least strong entry
No Way Home basically strips the main issues with the character by starting him from scratch.
I think one of the reasons the audience doesn't like inactive protagonists as much is because by watching a movie, the audience is already passive and is told was happening. When the protagonist is inactive, we are observing how another passive party is told something, making it feel more like a narration of events. And linking this to what you said, narration doesn't pose the internal questions upon which the character has to act and which create tension. Instead for indirect characters, only the final decision is presented to the audience, lacking all the tension.
I just realized that Uncle Ben’s basically non existant
Peter said something like “if bad things happen, they happen because of you”
There’s a water monster and a fire monster and Peter is like “that aint my problem”
Almost like he forgot what great power came with
I mean it's not like he went through multiple traumatic events in the form of fighting his crush's father, getting blipped and then having his mentor die right in front of him mere minutes after. I feel like those things happening in rapid succession would compel a teenager to want to take a break from it all
@@littlelordfuckleroy3822 doesn’t he always take a break from being spiderman because of the hate he gets
Well, he also states that the other hero is going to take care of it, so he knows inside it’ll probably be taken care of without him
@@higaiwokeru What? No. Where the hell did you get that from?
Peter quit being spiderman in favor of his personal life in spiderman 2, so whats the difference?
What happened to the humor in Spider-Man: Far From Home?
The Closer Look: Gone. Reduced to atoms.
The only funny thing in the whole movie was Jake Gyllenhaal's delivery of "SOMEBODY GET THIS STUPID COSTUME OFF ME"
I actually liked the lack of abundance in the comedy. A lot of marvel films have tried hard to force in jokes, but this film is one of the few that hasn't so I commend it for that.
*Movie has jokes*
Clueless internet whiners: what the hell! All these jokes are annoying, it's detracting from the experience! I can't get involved because of all the lame jokes!
*Movie takes out jokes*
Clueless internet whiners: what the hell! I didn't even laugh once! How am I supposed to enjoy a movie if its so bland that it doesn't even make me laugh!
@@christopherrapczynski204 it's about using Comedy as a device ........Comedy when used correctly can be great and add to the character like in Iron Man but in Thor 3, GOTG2 and both Spiderman movies and Antman 2 any moments of emotional substance and weight were immediately killed off by a silly and unfunny joke. They were better used in Infinity war,Winter Soldier and Civil war that's why those movies standout
@@TheCloserLook i think that this movie has many forced jokes that shouldn't be there (example: peter and nick talking )
I wish Joe and Anthony do the next spider-man trilogy, civil war is still the best MCU Spidey after homecoming.
Actually is very likely that Sam Raimi takes it from here (with Holland's spidey, of course) if Dr. Strange 2 does well
As good as the Russos are, them tackling Spider-Man wouldn’t be that good IMO. Their movies are very dark in tone and don’t really fit the young and excitable nature of Spider-Man. It’s like Snyder being the one to handle Superman. It just feels like it doesn’t fit the intended tone of the character. They handled him well in Civil War because he had 10 minutes of screentime.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483 The Russos handled MCU Spider-Man the best so your entire argument makes literally no sense. And Snyder did a great job with Superman.
@@mr.stuffdoer8483 It wasn't because of 10 minutes of screentime they actually understood how to handle the character unlike Jon Watts and those pricks at Disney turning Spider-Man into a terribly written Disney pilot.
Such an interesting take. I've always thought of it, however, as Peter WANTING Spider-Man and Peter Parker to be separate, but NEEDING to be both in order to protect the people he loves. I also don't like that Nick Fury asking him is his primary motivation, but it still works with the theme of "Far" from "Home", with Peter trying so hard to not let Spider-Man interfere with Peter's life, and trying to shirk his responsibilities. It's only when his friends are sent to Prague that he accepts that he has some Spider-Man work to do, and he's very hesitant because there's a clear internal struggle there.
There's another want in there, his want to be Iron Man. It's only when Happy talks to him about the other side of Iron Man, the Tony Stark behind the mask, that Peters starts to understand that his need is to be both Spider-Man and Peter Parker, not juggle the two identities but use their combined experience and wisdom the way Tony would. He is confronted with the reality that Iron Man is both a blubbering mess and a superhero, and he tries to do it too.
I really like this movie, and your video was very comprehensive. Good work!
Perfectly described my problem(s) with the MCU version of Spider-Man.
They literally take the character for granted really, and establish him as Iron Man Jr....
“I just **want** to have a summer vacation”
Nick Fury acts as a catalyst and makes Peter a reluctant hero constantly having to choose Heroism over his vacation, and struggling because its not what he wants, but Peter **does** learn thats the way things have to be, after he realizes hes been tricked he realizes what he needs to do and goes to belgium on his own volition and talks to happy about what he needs to do, happy even asks him that.
I agree with the want but not the need. The character is a hero and he just doesn't want the responsibility of being the next Iron Man. By the end of the movie he needs to take over for Stark.
He's already a hero during the vacation and as much as it gets in the way of his regular life, it's to become a Stark torch carrier. That's the need.
Again, circumstance should be his call to action, not another character, he finds out about the attacks and tries to prevent them not because someone told him to but because he can't help but overhear and act upon it.
@Comic Booger did you not watch the second half of the film?? happy's whole speech about peter not needing to be the next iron man, the point of the film was pretty on the nose lol, everyone was saying he needs to step up and replace tony, by the end of the film he realised he does need to step up, but in his own way as his own hero, the "need" is to be a hero sure, but not to be the next iron man.
@@joehicks929 Right, don't be the next Iron Man, be yourself (as though that's a lesson that has anything to do with the character of Spider-Man). But go ahead, use his technology, use his gadgets, use his inventory, build your own advanced suit on his plane, throw in Happy who is an Iron Man character and have him look at Peter like he would at Tony. Don't be Iron Man, instead be a spin-off of him like Falcon is of Captain America. Great stuff, ain't it.
Anyway, wasn't this already covered in the last movie? Not being someome he is not, instead becoming his very own Friendly Neighborhood?
@@greygorygaming this isnt spider-man from the comics ffs, this character is much closer to Miles Morales than Peter Parker tbh, hes a smaller hero trying to live up to the legacy of a legendary hero, and eventually learns that he doesnt need to be a carbon copy but can instead be his own hero. its practically a copy of Miles's story, also, why in any fucking circumstance would peter not have access to a suit built with advanced technology, the film is based around nick fury and shield asking spider-man to help them with a problem, it would feel stupid if peter is just walking around in a shitty suit despite obviously having people he could ask for help, happy has also been in by this point every film spider-man has been in, is black widow and iron man character because she first appeared in Iron Man?? no because thats not how people work, and so that isnt how you should write characters, i think your too hung up on looking for YOUR version of spider-man, this obviously isnt it, hell this character isnt actually much like peter parker at all, and thats fine, because hes still a good and enjoyable character.
The “re-write” section where the plot is restructured is almost ENTIRELY the plot to homecoming lmao. The attack on the deli, persevering and getting involved despite ironman’s orders, peter continues anyway and helps save stark’s technology. If that was the plot to far from home it would just feel like a re-tread of the same stuff as homecoming
and the movie wouldve been better for it
Literally just thinking “hey wait a minute, that’s what happened in the first movie”
Yeah, I agree. I think Browntable's rewrite is a better way to do it. I also think that a chunk of the issue is what the base of the movie is laid on. I think combining the two into a drama about Peter dealing with the loss while also adjusting to what happened with the blip. If they had actually done more emphasis on "I want to be normal for right now" and turned that into "I need to keep being Spider-Man since it is my responsibility", it would be a whole lot stronger. Elements from what we actually had could still work but some things would definitely need to change. Especially, at least in my opinion, the scene where Peter makes his suit using Stark's tech while listening to Stark's jams
Complete with the arc ending of the mentor figure (Fury in FFH, rather than Iron Man) deciding "Hey, you're actually pretty good at this. Wanna join my team?" And Peter says, "Nah, I'd rather just do my own thing. Thanks, though."
Like, beat for beat the same as Homecoming.
man, you're solutions on how to solve the movies are amazing. I wish you would be put on the teams of these movies as a consultant to help improve story
Happy: "Don't worry about being the next Ironman, Peter. Tony was always stricken with guilt and grief, and you don't want that. Be your own hero, Peter. Be Spider-Man."
Also Happy: **Blasts AC/DC in the Jet**
The hero work for Stark hurt him both ways - collateral damages and deaths both before and after becoming Iron Man.
I lOve LeD zEpPeLin
Exactly. I see people saying that his need was not to try to be Iron Man but the movie contradicts itself. Happy tells him not to do that, but than the scene with Peter making his suit conveys the idea that he is the next Iron man, and later on he does nothing to contradict that.
The framing of the movie makes it look like, Peter's conflict is between :
a) enjoying a normal teenage life
b) being the next Iron man.
On one hand, Peter wishes he could just enjoy his vacation, but on the other, he is asked to take a lot of responsibilities and be pushed into a fight in a way that is not spiderman-y. He's given Tony's weapon of mass destruction, pressured to work with what is essentially the SHIELD... that doesn't sound like Spidey stuff (solving problems on your own because with great power bla bla bla) and more like the type of things that an actual Avenger, an Iron Man,would do.
I feel like the conflict should be:
a) enjoying a normal teenage life
b) being spiderman
or
a) being spiderman
b) being the next Iron man
But then again, as it is explained in this video, that conflict (normal life / Iron man) isn't even used properly. If the point of the movie was that he didn't have to be IM, something ressembling the scene on the bridge that Closer Look gave in this video would have happened.
The point they are trying to make about replacing Tony is so messy that they contradict themselves in the same scene. Like it was the main focus of the trailers, the main focus at the begining of the movie and the resolution is.... huh?
That says a lot about what the MCU writers really think about Spider-Man as a character. They just think of him as a legacy character for Iron Man.
Happy actually never uttered the words "Be Your Own Hero" or anything remotely similar....all he said was that even Tony Stark couldn't live up to the legend surrounding Tony Stark and that Peter was being way too hard on himself by trying to live up to the pedestal he put Tony on. I think you're reading subtext that was never there to begin with.
Regardless, I saw Happy playing AC/DC in the background as a cute little way to honor Tony's memory while acknowledging Peter as Tony's successor. Like, can we all get this straight for a second, because filling in for somebody's role after they leave does not necessarily make you their "Junior" or whatever. That's ridiculous. Like if you're at your job, and your boss is leaving and they decide to take you on as their successor and mentor and train you, does that make you a junior version of your boss? No, it doesn't, because you might decide to do things differently. You can still be your own person and be someone's successor at the same time.
Okay, but in the movie, his want was clearly stated multiple times: "I just want to go on my trip. I just want to tell the girl I like how I feel about her." He clearly wants to just be a normal kid after the traumatic battle in Endgame.
He realizes his need at the end: That he has a responsibility to be Spider-Man.
This movie has the same motivations as Spider-Man 2 with Toby McGuire. That Peter Parker stops being Spider-Man to be a normal person but is inspired to be Spider-Man again once MJ is put in danger. He realizes he can't just run away from that responsibility, and Tom Holland's Spider-Man in Far From Home has the same moment of realization when his friends are put in danger.
The Tony Stark thing is a pressure put on him and he clearly doesn't want to deal with living up with that expectation, but Happy reassures him at the end that nobody can live up to Iron Man - not even Tony. Peter chooses to be Spider-Man and accept his responsibility on his own terms, not because Fury told him to or because Iron Man expected him to.
I do 100% agree with you that the ending would have been cooler if Peter destroyed the glasses and drone tech that Tony gave him to solidify that he is his own person.
Thank you for this!! I usually agree with this channel’s opinions, but their analysis of this movie was way off to me. I thought his wants/needs were very clear. The entire movie is LITERALLY the embodiment of the thesis “with great power, comes great responsibility.”
Its Maguire
Dude in raimi spiderman 2 has emotional weight and consecquences you can't compare ffh to spiderman 2 cause it's pretty different how they take responsibilities and how they portrait the characters
If he doesn't want to be Spider-man anymore, why he didn't quit, as in Spiderman 2? The thing here is: he is TELLING us that is his want/neez, but we are not seeing it. Wr only see him being Spiderman, accepting all the Fury's works.
@Jake Boos Thats true, Jake. However, "taking a break" is really a bad decision as a motivation for a Spiderman Movie, when Fire and Water Things are killing people. :-P. I really think the Focus should have been the Gap (I don't know its name in envglish, the Loop?). How he tries to get the pieces together, his friends, MJ, having the trauma of Thanos in his mind and Mysterio USING this to defeat him, using the allucinations, tricking him, etc. That would have been JUST awesome. Instead, the Gap its only an excuse to have a boy grown up and trying to flirt with MJ. Thats it. No more consecuences. Its a shame the first movie after the Gap its not about the Gap, as it hadn't happened.
The more Spider-Man: Far From Home rewrites I hear, the more sad I am that we got the movie we got.
the movie was boring, especially No Way Home IMO
Here after watching No Way Home!!!
Looks like Jon watts literally saw your video bcs He just fixed all those flaws and made the most genius Spider-Man movie ever!!!
he wants to be a normal kid, he needs to be a hero
Billy McDonough This isn’t a bad take, but I would immediately ask “why?” In a world of Captain Marvel, Dr. Strange, Thor, Black Panther, and so on and so forth, why does Peter *need* to be a hero, at least right now? “Power and responsibility” isn’t a firmly established thing here, unlike the Raimi films. And unlike the “Amazing” films, the world isn’t contriving itself to force Peter into a heroship role due to Oscorp and his dad’s research all coming back to bite Peter in the ass.
Peter is under no actual obligation to be a hero, at the moment. Maybe later, when he’s an adult maybe? But not right now, not the way the film has it presented.
Billy McDonough but what did he learn from uncle bens death? Spiderman isa the story of a boy becoming a man because of his Super powers
czcams.com/video/vqQsQBloHcE/video.html
@@Adorni because he feels responsable to do it. It was pretty well explained in Civil War when he talks to Tony: "when you can do the things that I can but you don't, and them the bad things happen? They happen because of you"
@@Adorni I mean, the movie itself pretty much countered your points. Captain Marvel isn't even on Earth. Thor is out in space with the Guardians of the Galaxy trying to get his head right. And Black Panther has always been a king first and superhero second. He's more concerned with diplomacy and community outreach than fighting bad guys all over the world.
To me the film didn‘t feel lacking at all. I feel that it was more about processing his grief about Tony dying and facing the superhero world without his mentor to guide him. What Peter wanted was to get as far away as possible from being Spider-Man for a while and enjoy his vacation with his friends, but what he really needed was to face his grief and step back into the shoes of Spider-Man (not Ironman). In this context it makes perfect sense for him to be passive and try to avoid superheroing, since it’s related to his pain of losing his mentor/parental figure and his fear of not living up to Tony’s expectations of him. This makes him more of a reluctant hero than an entirely passive one
Also, it always seemed weird to me that Tony would write the note as is. Knowing how he was anxious about Peter taking to many risks when confronting different sorts of vilain, and how he viewed himself against his own father legacy (which it is subplot he always wanted to surpass his father), I don't why he would ''pass the torch'' to Peter this way.
I think you’re mixing up the “wants” and “needs” in your analysis. Imo, thinking about the movie, his “want” is to be a normal kid and get with MJ, but his “need” is to fight off the elementals and Mysterio.
why did he need to fight off mysterio
@@ComedianKevinChristopher because otherwise mysterio would kill all his friends??? he obviously doesnt think he needs to deal with the elementals which is why he constantly tries to shift the responsibility, fury drags him in initially at which point he lists of all the other hero's who he thinks could do the job better, but fury still makes him help, he only goes back to fight mysterio at the end because he finally realises no one else CAN do the job, he only steps up when hes the last option available.
Would be interesting if instead of him actually wanting to go with MJ, the reason he goes out with MJ its because he wants to overcome his guilt and death of his mentor stark, thinking its his fault that he couldnt save him think of it as in Attack On Titan Reiner becomes a solider to overcome his guilt as a warrior in Marley. Honestly that would have been interesting if it played out that way and you could have MJ comfort him as a friend and we get more character from her and the past.
True
if his want is to be a normal kid in the movies then what is the point getting the powers or becoming a superhero ? He is just fighting cause somehow he got powers ?
i mean, comparing any other character to Shrek (our lord and savior) they will obviously feel bland.
Shrek is love, Shrek is life.
@@TheCloserLook a man of culture
You completely misunderstood the Happy jet scene. The scene is not about “Tony was all over the place in secret, and isn’t someone you should model yourself after.” (Not a direct quote but your general idea) That analysis is so surface level, I’m shook… The whole movie, we are being hit over the head about how cool Tony is, and how much of a hero he is, that he seems almost perfect and immune to criticism especially after his “heroic death” and that everyone EXPECTS Spider-Man to fill his shoes, and this takes a toll on Peter, which is why Mysterio is able to use Peter’s insecurities, about trying to fill Tony’s shoes, to get Edith….. (I mean Tony has a Hulu documentary about how cool he is, in this universe!!!) Happy is explaining that not even Tony Stark can reach the EXPECTATION people have for Ironman, and even though Tony seems perfect in this universe, he made mistakes and is still human. This helps Peter realize that it’s okay to make mistakes bc even Tony made mistakes and this helps Peter realize he is good enough, that’s what the point of that scene was… I feel like a lot of people really misunderstood that scene
Well yea, id consider ultron a pretty MAJOR mistake.
This should’ve been called Ironboy: Far from Home. This film completely contradicted the end of Homecoming.
@Chopper maybe they’re trying to say that Peter’s more of like a mini iron man more than he is Spider-Man
Iron boy: far from Spider-Man
Your avi says it all how you feel about this movie lol. Take off the nostalgia goggles
1st film he end up being okay with being the friendly NEIGHBOR HOOD Spider-Man and not want to join the avengers
Infinity War: He goes to space to help because he doesn’t want his neighborhood destroyed and doing what he takes
Endgame: He’s dead
2nd film: he realizes that he doesn’t have to be Tony but still needs to step up as a hero hence why he’s swinging in NYC and not just Queens
Or would you have liked it better if he threw away his suite & ignore he’s responsibilities for most of a film until it takes a girl that’s been cucking him to get kidnapped for him to step up like in Rami’s Spider-Man 2?
Peter is growing more as a hero
@@donniecastro1456 true. He is he is vool if he says 'mcu spiderman bad' and get more likes from his fat fellow redditors
Lol how does NordVPN still have a marketing budget after their massive hack like a week ago.
Hol up. What?
Source?
Wut
Want: To be a normal kid and enjoy what young adulthood has to offer.
Need: To truly become a hero and discover his true potential.
I think he is conflicted multiple times in this film, between wanting to be a normal kid and yet, not being able to. Every time he takes a step towards his want, he is stopped by his need, which is to be a hero, etc. idk, thats just my perspective on this.
This. I feel like this video has a very reductionist attitude towards what needs and wants are.
His need through out the movie: to fill iron man's shoes and get back edith/be worthy of edith
His want: to date MJ for no reason / enjoy teen life.
Even if these themes make sense they aren't explored properly and have several plot holes.
If he fully made that choice and came to the realization of why he was a hero in the first place, it would have worked. But the adults (Nick Fury, Aunt May, and Happy) force him to play superhero instead and they keep bringing up Tony in terms of his motivation, when he should be a hero separate from Tony. Fury and Happy shouldn’t have been in this movie and they should’ve explored how Aunt May was very opposed to him being Spider-man. The movie should’ve been about him grieving Tony, feeling like he failed and stopping superheroing, then watching the villain have their impact on the New York, killing people and Peter realizing he needed to help. OR he could’ve tried to be like an Iron Man, falling short, stopping and then realizing he needs to be his own hero.
@@dietcocacola3377 isn't that whats the movie is about?
@@darkcat6530 To extent, I really just meant that the lesson of the movie shouldn’t have been spelled out by the adults in the movie and they shouldn’t have been forcing him to be Spider-Man to make his character stronger and more like he had an actual choice when it comes to being Spider-Man. I think this would have been easier to do (and more consistent with the last movie) if Aunt May was opposed to it, for example, and it strained his relationship with her. Because he’s never allowed to stop in the movie because one of the three adult characters, it takes away from him actually learning the lesson
I'm glad I found this video because when I watched Far From Home I really felt like something was missing and didn't find the movie very engaging and I just couldn't pinpoint why but this it pretty spot on.
Same here. I get it that it can be good to have a relatable character but they didn’t make him seem like the super hero Spiderman is at all. He’s passive, selfish, and sometimes cowardly and stupid. I get it he’s a teenager but JEEZ.
in far from home spider-mans whole arc is about not wanting to be involved with stopping the monsters anymore but struggling with the fact that other people need to be there and he can’t exactly stay away from it. he’s trying to have some normality by having a nice vacation and getting the girl he likes but the whole movie he keeps being interrupted by things that has to do with stopping the monsters and eventually mysterio and all that. the concept of this video is based entirely off the fact that you obviously weren’t paying attention to the movie cause this is established right from the start, i’m pretty sure he even says it in the trailer. not to mention it showed his growth from homecoming because in homecoming he was struggling with the same kind of issues only instead of wanting a normal life he wanted to catch bad guys and prove himself cause he felt like being a teenager wasn’t good enough and by the end of the movie comes to the conclusion that it’s okay for him to enjoy his life and be a superhero. that not everything is his responsibility. the two complimented each other very well and went off one another very perfectly. yes there were lots of issues with far from home, especially since it felt like they were trying to make him the next tony stark when no one can replace that character and the plot revolved a little too much around tony instead of around peter, but it wasn’t boring. (this is just my opinion so i hope this doesn’t upset you)
Mysterio was a lot more likeable than Peter Parker in this movie.
Until....
I don't like this spider man over all, I preferred andrew Garfield as Spiderman (however him and not the movies)
@@user-wx8mi1pd6g Yuri Lowenthal is Spider-Man
@@user-wx8mi1pd6g He's always been Sasuke for me lol no one else
IncorporatedOps true this was a pretty decent mysterious movie
I feel you miss interpreted the movie...
Spider-Man being passive throughout the movie leads to his character arch
His want is to be a high school kid while everyone is putting the pressure of the iron man onto him I 17 year old
His need is to fill the gap of the lost avengers.
His deviation of loosing tony and maybe even blaming himself for his death (referring to mystero implication) is why his spidey sense isn’t working... it’s a lack of faith in himself
At the end he does become proactive after the fight with mystero where he gets hit by the train becoming Spider-Man defeating mystero without relying on his web shooters but his own ingenuity
His arch has been a process... being an eager kid wanting to do anything he can not being taken seriously yet the adults... being made an avenger.... dying... coming back for his mentor and idol to die... wanting to hang up the suite... to being the ending the film being Spider-Man
I just don’t think you’re giving enough credit where credit is due. He definitely has an arch in this film and it’s an most likely going to continue in the next film
Beautiful way off explaining it. ^_^ I do agree that Peter wasn't as active throughout the entire movie, with the exception of the 3rd act, but this Spiderman still has his own arc to go through that's just as impactful as other versions.
Want: to avoid the responsibility of becoming "the next iron man"
Need: to stop running from problems and overcome self doubt to become a hero in his own right
I love that you put your money where your mouth is in your criticisms, even if I don’t agree with certain points (not from a logical point just some opinions I have that differ) you always propose different writing into the story and make a point by doing that. It’s awesome, you put a lot of work in your script and that’s awesome. (If you have a script I assume so you seem to love writing lol)
My thoughts on this movie:
- WHY didn't they show peter's feelings for MJ develop slowly during the movie, rather than just BOOM he likes her and we never got to see why or how that started?? it feels very shallow. and peter and mj should be EPIC... he ends up marrying her!!? and it was jsut this BLAH romance.....
- too much ironman - once again. he was so sad about that, but not about his actual uncle Ben.
- I actually feel too much happened?? Like i don't feel like we got to know peter better... he is still a very cliché and shallow character actually. He has heart, but we don't get to see too much about his daily life and therefore his personality beyond his alter ego.
- It only felt like a true spidey movie in the last five minutes of the film - back in NYC. It was missed.
Violet Daisy Plus I hate EDITH retcon. Tony Stark, a man who agreed with Sokovia Accords because he realized that he was too reckless in AoU, a man who fought against Captain America due to different ideology, a man who tried so hard to save the world that he died doing it, decides to create a portable glasses that can control the killer drones (sounds like Project Insight by Hydra) while handing it to a teenage boy who is immature and has poor judgement.
This plotpoint alone destroy the whole character arc of Tony Stark (who is my favorite apart from Cap) and how is that possible that Tony handed EDITH to Nick Fury or made Peter inherit it when both of them just got revived about 14 minutes before Tony died. Also after Nick Fury came back, he never got a chance to see Tony being alive at all.
I feel that tony was more of uncle Ben but still, they should’ve mentioned him. By adding another character, you add a new part of the web that could branch off and even make more connections to the same thing. Just by Peter mentioning him before ffh as a father figure in an emotional moment that could draw parallels to his relationship with peter and another moment in ffh where he thinks or speaks about both would really add a lot.
Marvels spidey is different, that’s ok but they shouldn’t just ignore him.
I completely agree with the ending of the film feeling like an actual Spider-Man movie. Why is he always travelling. I got the overwhelming sense of spider tingle when in saw him swinging in New York and I was like: why didn’t they do this for the whole first two movies!
@@nont18411 absolutely! EDITH ruined Tony's entire ideology in Civil War
@@valeriarossini543 I dont think it was the edith itself but the fact that he gave it to peter, it could have fit in well if he had given it to banner doctor strange pepper tchalla or nick fury
Looks at the title of the video.......
*Chuckles* "I never thought he'd really do that"
Me: (chuckles) I'm in danger.
@@TheCloserLook Get ready because the idiotic fanboys are "gonna put some dirt in your eyes"
@@hamzaorakzai3490 I mean, I'm assuming he did this to start a discussion since "want" and "need" can be interpreted in so many ways by different people, that he's okay with people disagreeing with him
Haha 😂
I agree "Far From Home" is not as good as Homecoming. But I don't think it's the lack of a wants/needs conflict. I think "Far From Home" gives Peter a wants/needs conflict in that he *wants* to get with M.J., but he *needs* to fight the monsters (AKA Mysterio) and save the day. That's the issue he faces. But I will agree that Act 3 misses out on a mostly satisfying conclusion to this conflict still though.
Just want to take a moment to compliment your score throughout this video. Every time you acknowledged another film my brain was already prepared for the segue because just moments before you started a very recognizable score from each film. Well done sir.
I actually thought that spiderman's need in this film was to fight the monsters and then Mysterio, and his want was to be a kid on vacation.
Common sense
Pretty much
The "need" means what does the character think he needs, not what he actually needs to do.
@@improbablyyourdad8458 he thinks he needs to become the new iron man and is afraid of the responsibility.
What he actually needs is to be himself
@@lewisbaldwin9683 exactly, but as pointed out, that need wasn’t explored enough at all to be considered an arc.
*the closer look criticizes far from home*
Spider-Man: Mr. Stark, I don’t feel so good.
MCU Spiderman reduced to wannabe Iron Man. Most popular comic book hero of all time playing second fiddle to a B tier hero.
That is a pretty accurate description of MCU Peter sadly.
*Look at little Iron Boy Jr, Gonna Cry?*
I think Peters want is to just enjoy his holidays and he tries to tell himself that he can stay out of trouble, but as soon as he stands next to the monsters, he feels like it's his duty to help people that don't have superpowers and cant help themselves.
Seeing that Mysterio had to deal with everything on his own (even though he was 'good enaugh') was probably relatable to Peter because he just lost Tony and also felt like he was alone as Tony was the one caring for him in dangerous situations. As the good person Peter is he then felt like he had to support Mysterio.
(Maybe he also gave his glasses away because he hoped to find some sort of replacement of Tony in Mysterio?)
That's how it's still relatable to me and I feel like it makes sense even though its a bit complicated :)
I would say his want in the film is to have a relationship with MJ and to take a break from being Spider-Man. His need in the film is to accept that being Spider-man is a higher calling that has to come first.
So I do think the film does meet those criteria but its still the weak one out of th trilogy.
I was bored throughout the Far From Home. Had trouble explaining why. Retrospectively, this video nails it.
Also, are you working on your own stories?
Thanks, yeah I'm working on a sci-fi novel right now. I'm publishing it next year :)
The Closer Look awesome. Something I’ll have to pick up
@@TheCloserLook Yeah same, I knew they're was some issues with the character work but couldn't put my fingers on exactly what it was
Now I know why I slept in the middle of the movie
Finally some said something! When my sister and I exited the theatre and started talking about the film, we both agreed something was off/ didn’t feel right.
Then when I started look at all the ffh videos on CZcams saying how great it was I was really confused cause watching I didn’t get it and I didn’t know why
Thanks, well I think that's because most people enjoyed the movie, even if it does have flaws, people aren't looking for them because they liked it and don't want to shred it apart.
One gripe I have with your rewrite is that for Mysterio's plan to work he also has to be an active character. If he isn't going out of his way to support Peter then his whole plan just looks like a massive coincidence or just poorly planned.
How strange, after watching No way home I can see that Tom Holland spidermen is still boring. I liked Andrew and mature Tobey but Tom was following will of others throughout the movie. His aunt says do this and that, other spideys were there too tell him how to do things, overall he felt soulless most of the time. Only in the end when he decided to go solo, a decision he made after disregarding his promise with MJ and Ned I felt that he is not so boring.
Now I can guess why Avengers and Spiderman is a bad mix and why in comics too they took away Spiderman from Avengers. While Avenger is more of a team who joined to save earth Spiderman is more like a selfless person helping only his city which honestly made him interesting. Even DC is like this, Batman in Gotham vs Batman in a Spaceship managing Justice Leagues are way too different. I am not saying that they shall remain alone for whole life but that they are best used when they work alone. Spiderman do a lot of stealth in game and comics but in MCU I really never saw this aspect of spiderman, it feels as if he was being limited in his ways to deal with enemies.
Ironic that No way home seems dumb because of far from home, why the heck would Peter help a villain after all the backstabs misterio made to him.
I don't know, the maturing is there but the way it was achieved seems stupid, but that may just be me
@@orlandofurioso7329 Worst thing about this is that why he is not "curing" millions of villains coming from the mutliverse in the end when he was so adamant to cure the villains.
Wasn’t the whole point of the film though that he didn’t want to constantly fight potentially world-ending threats around the globe; that he just wanted to be able to enjoy his youth and use his powers to help his local community? I think the conflict would definitely be much better resolved if he had destroyed the glasses; however, I still think they got it across... Your proposal would make for a very different film with very different themes - which is fine, but I personally really liked the film’s angle about placing too much responsibility on one individual, and not actually letting them live their lives.
But he went to eu willingly and said he wanted to be normal. If they made spider man go to eu reluctantly then that would work.
czcams.com/video/vqQsQBloHcE/video.html
you like it because you are 13.
That would be valid if he said he wanted to be the kind of hero you are suggesting. No, he literally wanted to have a summer vacation as a normal kid. No Spiderman. At all.
Yeah spider-man quits too often
He quit in Spider-Man 2
He quit in the amazing Spider-Man 2
He quits in Far From Home because of Tony’s death
It gets old
I realised that for me it seems like
Homecoming:
Want: to prove worth and potential as a superhero
Need: realising that helping the little people is important and that that's better for HIM
Far From Home
Want: to retire as a superhero and live his life (actually because of what he's gone through)
Need: to realize that he has a responsibility that he has to follow despite the pain and the agony that comes and has come with it
And I think that parallel is really interesting
My major problem with the movie was the whole drone illusion thing... I just can't wrap my head around how drones and illusions could believably cause all that damage; especially with the fire elemental... Were the drones also on fire so Spiderman and company could feel the heat?
Lol that was a problem for me too. I know we’re supposed to allow for fantastic superhuman things to happen in a super hero movie but jeez, really??
Yet again, you’ve made me reflect hard on my own story and the impact of character choices. Thank you!
18:28 "obeys without a word of objection." Are we forgetting about the parts when Peter said he didn't want to do whatever Fury wanted him to do when Fury said he had to?
James Stark: Ben Edition czcams.com/video/vqQsQBloHcE/video.html
my mans was the first person to ghost Nick Fury and everything
But why should fury be the one to encourage Peter Peter should’ve been the one to say he needs to be Spider-Man
But he did it anyway without challenging fury.
It makes me sad when a video essay comes up with better ideas than the people tasked with making the movie.
Good thing that didn't happen in this one, phew.
I am so glad i'm not the only person who thinks this movie was not the masterpiece of the century.
Mcu spiderman is hella over rated if you said something about it they will kill you..........tasm spiderman was so underrated :(
Mcu spiderman is hella over rated if you said something about it they will kill you..........tasm spiderman was so underrated :(
It definitely wasn’t. One big reason is they continued to play up Tony stark’s character, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS DEAD, almost over Spiderman himself. I actually still haven’t seen no way home, but the MCU Spiderman has been cringey to me. I understand he’s a teenager but good lord they made him incredibly naive, immature, and sometimes straight up stupid in the MCU. And he’s possibly marvels most important super hero but they’ve relegated him to sidekick status or at least a hero who practically can’t accomplish anything on his own.
Tom Holland himself said his performance is heavily influenced by Marty McFly.
McFly is the cool kid tho, Parker is the nerd
Lol, ok
Do the Osborne's even exist!?!
Marvel: Stop asking questions old man!
Actually MCU's Norman Osborn is portrayed by Matthew McConaughey and he already did a small cameo
@@LiamC328 Lmaoooo what cameo??
@@LiamC328 we need receipt's
Great video, but I feel like your alterations make the Peters arch near identical to the first film. I didn’t love far from home, but I liked the way that he almost had the reverse arch, wanting to avoid conflict at the start, then seeking it out at the end. I just think your changes are too similar to the first film, just replacing Tony Stark with Nick Fury.
Either way, love the videos and keep it up👍
It more so reinforces the themes of the first movie keeping a level of consistency
God I absolutely love your scene idea for the ending. That would have been spectacular and emotional. Not to mention everything else!
OMG, your version of spider man far from home is sooo good. I would watch that in the Cinema any time. Really good vid.
29:00 Thats the first movie all over again. Iron Man: Don't go after the vulture be a friendly neighboorhood spiderman Peter: Goes after him anyway.
Kinda necessary cause the MCU clearly hasn't it gotten through their heads that Spider-Man doesn't desire or require permission
@@shealupkes they just see him as a Young Avenger
When I watched Far from Home, I looked at it as Spiderman's want being to just take a break from being a hero and have some time to invest in his normal life, while his need was to come to terms with Tony's death and ultimately fill the void he left. Am I still misunderstanding these terms, Henry?
You've misunderstood his want. He wants a holiday, to give up his responsibility for a bit and run away. He needs to accept his responsibility and role of hero in a world without Tony. He's trying to be the reluctant hero.
he was already a hero before he met tony. His need should be to relearn and regain what he was/had before he did, meaning the jet, magic suit maker, hogan, and ac/dc need to be removed from the final act
@@shealupkes "He needs to accept his responsibility and role of a hero in a world without Tony" you missed a crucial part of that statement, WITHOUT TONY, he was a small time hero who never dealt with anything major UNTIL he met tony, tony became a huge part of his hero career, he was who peter idolized and modelled himself after, now tony is gone and peter stops wanting to be a hero, "should" is only from your perspective, its obviously what you want out of the character, but spider-man can still be a good character even following a different development. we had the whole no suit doing it himself in homecoming, this isnt about needing to do it without the suit, its about needing to do it without Tony.
@@joehicks929 It's not about what I want it's about which spider-man they're using and how that sizes up to the one that actually fits, if spider-man's gadgets and transportation are built and paid for by someone else this early on that's miles, if spider-man starts out under the wing of another superhero who does most of the hard work for him until he's ready that's miles.
There are several plot holes throughout the movie. I never liked the MCU version of spider-man. The civil War spidey was amazing, the homecoming spidey was acceptable but FFH spidey and most likely The 3rd spidey are/will be fumbling idiots who fall in love with a girl for the second time because hey hey they are teens. Artificial tension, artificial romance, artificial responsibility. Wasted casting honestly considering MJ and Peter are perfectly casted.
The background music you used when talking about other movies in this video is so beautiful and nostalgic, really hammers home how a great storyline makes you feel compared to a weaker story
I never truly thought about this. I just saw the movie back when it came out quite expectantly since Homecoming is my favourite mcu movie, thought that it was very disappointing in comparison but still an okayish movie and promptly forgot about it. After seeing this video though, everything you say hits so close to home. Peter seemed so boring in this movie, especially coming from the previous one where he was a very proactive character. That was what I loved about him in comparison to the Sam Raimi trilogy. But alas, another gormless spidey. At least Tobey had pretty powerful arcs in his movies...
I feel like Mysterio was very underused in this movie too, they could have gone way way deeper instead of only two alienated scenes, but that's another topic whatsoever.
Craylik you do know the original trilogy is the closest spider man has gotten when comparing him to the comics. this version of spider man is pretty bad in comparison to the comic version.
@@WolvesFansince Firstly, there are many variants with spiderman in the comics, you're probably referring to the original Stan Lee Spidey back in the day and to that I agree that the Sam Raimi movies are the closest to that Peter Parker.
Secondly, the Raimi movies might be the closest to that Peter Parker but are in no way the closest to Spidey. When Tobey puts on the mask all the charm and wit that you've come to expect from motherfucking Spiderman is nowhere to be seen, and like it or not that's a pretty big miss.
Thirdly, I do agree that this Spiderman is inferior to the comics. But the Raimi Spidey as I said before is also inferior to the comics. As a matter of fact there's not one Spidey in the movies that has come close to the one in the comics, not that it's something they have to reach of course since there's no way they'll achieve what decades of history have done with a character in two fucking hours. The closest iteration to the comics Spiderman in my opinion would be the Spectacular Spiderman tv show, but even then.
Fourthly, you might not like Tom as much as Tobey's Spidey, and Uncle Ben missing is certainly a big blow, but the mcu has managed to capture Spiderman in general much much better than Sam Raimi when compared to the comics. Tom is the first actor that actually seems the age that Peter is supposed to be and his acting is spot on, and with the Spidey's parts the character is the charming blabbermouth that we've all come to love. As I said before the arcs on the Sam Raimi are stronger but that doesn't mean that the character in itself is. And especially comparing that trilogy to the original mcu movie, Tobey's Spiderman is extremelly passive in contrast to Tom actively making choices in Homecoming.
Finally, I don't see how this fact is relevant whatsoever with what I said. At the end of the day what I said about Sam Raimi was just a little remark and is of no consequence whatsoever to the point I was making. I even said that that Peter had powerful arcs. So why this coment mate :/?
Hopefully in Spider-Man Home 3 we'll see Spider-Man more proactive again.
@@craylik5589 NGL but these constant jokes after some serious moments or important ones or skipping the reveal and aftermath of his previous happenings are just so shit. It's true that Tom is a great Spider-Man with his jokes and such but his MCU experience should have been handled more faithful to his morals and lore, not just yeah he's charming and funny when he's in the suit, that's not the only thing Spider-man is. I know that you're familiar with that but it should be no debate to keep it faithful to at least the Ultimate Spider-Man comics from a story driven perspective. (The Avengers related stuff could have been handled like Netflix Daredevil with more heavier references, just an opinion).
Where is the constant Parker Luck, why is the supporting cast so bad and misscasted (I know about that Sony deal with Disney but now that they are working together, that deal is just completely useless now.), where is the build up to his endgame (That boring excuse with yeah highschool romance is supposed to be like that is quite bull. I mean yeah, i can agree on a degree that it can be cringe but you could at least build it up properly, because it's THAT girl he's going to end up with, unless the real mj shows up ofc.).
They could've satisfied everyone, because his Civil War entrance and speach to Tony in his room was a superb introduction to his character. Homecoming shouldn't have any Avengers related villain in it and just concentrate on Peter, the villain, his Highschool experience to build things up and his double life but again that's just my opinion. They could have done so much more with the Script and everything, his movies could have turned out way better than the Raimi ones if they had the right man behind the Camera, i guarantee.
@@MrJole777 Well yeah, I've never said that the mcu Spidey is perfect. I just said that I prefer Tom's portrayal overall to Tobey's one. And my main point was about Far From home so I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring it for this :S.
But anyways, yeah. You're mostly right. I did say that the Sam Raimi trilogy had more powerful arcs and that Uncle Ben missing was a pretty big hit after all. There's no denying that the Spiderman in the comics is a richer character in every sense. That's normally what decades upon decades of development create in comparison to two hours in a movie.
The morals of Spiderman do exist though in Homecoming. It's what pushed him to do everything he does in the movie after all. It's not told directly by the character but rather by his actions. When he's told to stay put and given multiple choices throughout the story and he chooses to keep getting involved because he believes that that's the right thing to do. He may stutter and fail in some of them but at the end of the day he ends up being right. And that's what I liked about Spiderman in Homecoming in comparison to the Sam Raimi trilogy, the fact that he's actively working towards his beliefs instead of having the villain of the day come to make him finally make a move. The charm and portrayal of Tom are only the cream on top, which is extremely appreciated.
And you can't say that they aren't faithful to the lore in Homecoming. Yeah, they tweak a thing or two here and there to make him work on the movie, which is to he expected since it is a completely different media and different authors. But goddammit if they don't pay respects to the original material. The reference to The Amazing Spiderman 33 is an easy one to spot.
It's okay if you don't like it. To each their own. But it is a good portrayal of the character and it's hard to deny that at least the guys behind Homecoming know their shit about Spidey, and it shows.
Also I'm sorry, but I don't see where you were going with the second and third paragraph? What's that about sony and disney deal and how exactly foes it relate to the cast?
But nevertheless I don't think the supporting cast is so bad in Homecoming, except maybe for Zendaya doing mj. Specially Ned is great imo. And ofc Michael Keaton if you count him in it does an amazing job. (There's even motherfuckin Childish Gambino in there :p.) But to each their own. That would change if we were talking about Far From Home since mj gains a lot of protagonism and there's a couple of actors that are not doing it great (Ned's girlfriend anf the guy that has ot for mj come to head) but I don't think you were talking about Far From Home were you?
And Vulture is one of Spidey's villains, not of the Avengers. Do you mean to say that the fact that he gets technology from the Chitauri is a problem in and of itself? Because at the end of the day it's just a nice way to join the thread and is of no real consequence. The movie *IS* about Peter, the villain, his highschool life and how all the superhero activities afect his other life. Once again, it might not say it directly but it shows it. So what's your point with this?
And yeah, they may have done it better but I think they did a great job with the time limit and what they have. And as a long time fan I can say that I'm finally satisfied in one of the movie portrayals of him. That is to say, at least until Far From Home of course :S. So instead of saying that the comics are better, which they are, i just fucking enjoy it. And if you don't like the portrayal in Homecoming then I'm sorry, but it's very lovingly crafted and it's pretty difficult to deny that.
And for fucks sake the point was about Far From Home :/.
Good video and a lot of good points, but the "Active Spider-Man" plot you outlined would basically just be a rehash of Homecoming
Just because he would be active, it doesn't mean he would be exactly like in Homecoming. Captain America is active in every one of his movies. Do they all feel the same? No.
@@bigmonkeong Not what I’m saying. An active protagonist in multiple installments is fine, but the hypothetical gone over in the video is the exact same character arc as Homecoming.
@@zioy9918 I guess you are kind of right.
This had a simple solution. You can still have Spiderman not want to fight the monsters. However, if you introduce some compelling personal reason why he HAS to fight even though he doesn't want to, then suddenly you have want AND need. Do the monsters threaten someone he cares about? If so, the lesson he can learn is that there are no holidays when you're a superhero. And he can realize that that's the way it should be.
The arc you that suggested in this video is so brilliant but also so clear and fitting that I'm amazed they didn't land on this idea for the actual film. Great writing! :)
I felt the same way when I saw the movie. Tom Holland felt less lively and excentric from the first one.
And that was mostly because he was still grieving over Tony's death. But the movie should have ran with that and applied it in a better way. It definitely would have been a more balanced movie. :)
Weird, I felt the opposite. I think Tom Holland felt much more lively and eccentric in this one, and in Homecoming he felt straightjacketed by Iron Man.
@@robo3007 Well, just another case of "You can't please everyone". An indicator of a good, but not outstanding, movie.
Couldn’t his need actually be that he needs to live his life as a teenager, because he isn’t fully grown up/mature yet? But he gives up his need in order to save the day
I think its more like he wants to live his live normally and have a date with mj but he needs to prevent mysterio from abusing edith. at the end, he gives up his want because his wants and needs collide, causing him to save mj and defeat mysterio.
Thats his want. Not need.
You got it wrong buddy
I have watched lots of your videos and this one is the one that I feel the most confusing. I mean, most of us know what he wants and what he needs. Spiderman is a young boy that recently saw the death of his hero/ father figure and he wants some peace of mind by having a normal school trip. Then he wants to give up the heritage Ironman left for him because he felt that he was unworthy, or he felt that he was not good enough to be the next Ironman. What he needs is confidence to take on the mantle, to feel that he lives up to the expectation Stark gave him. Even the spider-sense scene proved that he already had it in him, just that he hadn't realized it yet. This is the story of self-finding rather than the story to seek something like Shrek and Toy Story.
Homecoming - its about the purpose of spiderman whether it be a friendly neighbourhood hero or a super hero fighting villains and threats. ( he wants a normal life and a normal date but needs to be a hero priotizing protection rather than his life)
Far from home- A story about trying to expand and try new things both as spider man and as Peter parker. As spider man he works with shield and also peter doesnt want to bring spidee man with him but duty calls. This priotizes the people close to him. however, he goes back to his old ways and starts to rely in his old ways yet again trusting himself and his powers and abilities.( he wants to find who peter parker is but needs Spider man to take the front in order to aave the world with a sub plot of Being the next tony stark which is forced upon him)
No way home - Peter is vunerable both worlds have merged he needs an escape and now he needs to make a choice whether he should prioritize his life as spider man or peter parker by going to doctor strange and trying to erase the reveal of his identity. This causes him to deal with the consequences of wanting to much. ( he wants a simple life and wants to go back but he needs to decide what to prioritize: the safety of his identity or the symbol that is spider man) [ basically if peter stays with the reveal he wouldnt be spider man and may need to retire in order to keep his close ones safe]
I have not seen no way home yet btw
These movies are not just about Spider man or even his contribution to the mcu. Its about Peter and how he deals with these scenarios and trying to be comfortable within them and tries to find home hence the names. He is going away from his comfort and is slowly declining until there is no return or NO WAY HOME.