Hey bro, pretty sure I know what this is. The PWM flicker frequencies of the backlight zones(what you see on your camera as a scanning bar) are not synced up to each other. It's probably causing gtg visibility variance between the two screen halves you are talking about. That's pretty horrible lol, my condolences. Hopefully not a lot of tvs are like this.
I wonder if the engineers knew the displays were rolling off the production line with this issue and then realised that fixing it would mean writing off the whole production run at a massive loss so instead they just leave it cause they know the average buyer won't notice. Because the engineers are pretty clever but that doesn't mean they are moral people. What would really aggravate me is if they knew it at the design stage and just said "screw it, who cares, the panels will not be in sync but let's just do it anyway" now that would grind my gears
If I go to the store and I see this issue on more TVs, I'm going to wonder why I don't see more people talking about it. ThisnLG TV is so new, it has less than 300 hours
YES please do this with as many LCD TVs in the store as you can. Specifically the Sony Bravia 9, TCL QM851, and Hisense U8N or UX. Those are all the high end LCDs. Thanks!!
@@plasmatvforgaming9648Remember to turn off "shop mode" LG C1 has such a function in the options. It may be the same here. Maybe With"store mode" There will be no problem🤦🤣😮💨
Looks like the tv uses low hz PWM for brightness control with two seperate backlights. They didn't bother to phase lock the two backlights so even if they are the same hz they are at a different phase to each other. It's a case of tv manufacturers being completely ignorant about human visible pwm artifacts, If they must use pwm they need to use 20khz+, or dc dimming.
Hmm maybe they are supposed to be phase locked but there is some clock drift making it go out of sync and the error builds up over time. Maybe OP could do a hard reset and see if the sync is initially good? Just a random example that popped into my head, NVIDIA drivers since 2016 have this slight clock error when implementing the CTA timings used for HDTV signals like 1080p etc. It's off by the tiniest of margins like 0.001hz it adds up to a dropped frame every 16 minutes which is noticeable across a 2hr movie. The point is, a tiny error can be a big problem.
Maybe the screen has 4 different lcd drivers... And some are better than others... or they are all set to different refresh rates... I remember around 8 years ago there was this super ultrawide monitor where the left and right halves of the screen were driven by separate drivers. Some of the complaints were along the lines of... "Sometimes one side is a tiny bit darker or brighter than the other." and "Sometimes there is desync or tearing between the 2 halves." I can totally see refreshrates getting out of sync with each other in a format like that.
This reminds me of the issue backlight strobing caused on gaming monitors, they made parts of the image blurry. Nowadays they use several horizontal zones that strobe in sync, which improved the blurriness when using BFI. I have the option on my VG27AQ3A to choose if i want my strobing sweetspot to be top, bottom or in the middle. This looks like it might be a similar issue. Camera clearly shows alternating strobing (due to actual BFI being enabled or just PWM flicker). Why they made it alternate like that, I dont know. Its an older TV. Remember how the first 4k 60hz monitors used to work? They required two displayport cables and were driven by two different 30hz signals for each half of the screen.
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Sure. I was just guessing, though. Could be related to one of the things I mentioned, or it could be something completely different. Strange, nevertheless...
Try increasing vertical totals in CRU and see if this helps. Increase vertical totals as much as possible so you wont exceede pixel clock limit. Leave the rest on default. You can read more about this on blur busters.
I can definitely see plenty of motion blur on my VA miniled qn90b 43', the thing is, image clarity is already getting killed by temporal anti aliasing methods in modern games, I do become more distracted by the TV's own motion issues in older games that don't use TAA though.
Interesting, would like to see if it's just your TV or if they all do it. My first guess would be maybe variance in the liquid crystal response time across the panel. My second guess would be some kind of row and column driver sync issue like you mentioned. Those dark patches caught by the camera make it seem like the panel has some scanning backlight , maybe that is not synchronised across the width of the screen?
I think this is a reasonable explanation. Yes the sync is off, and i dont mean compared towards the two strobing backlight. Its more seems the backlight isnt fully in sync with its own lcd side on a moleculair level. even tough it looks like lcd refreshes frames at once, its possible they really dont. Like really old lcds, which you can see refreshing when you changed to another screen, and see the frame popping up scrolling from top to bottom. Now, in this case the top left refreshes to soon, light hits it to early for best image quality, pixels are turned on to late. Where the lcd light on the left bottom hits it at exactly the right moment. The upper right of the lc is also in sync with the second back light, where the bottom is to slow and shows half shifted pixels to off. Light is fast, pixels arent. Next question is, how is this illuminated, from all sides? Is there a led driver? Is it a full fluorescence layer behind maybe creating a slowdown from top to botting while turning on( in case of modern lcds truling showing a picture at a flash) Could there be a way to calibrate the timing for a overal better image in the service menu? Where a dc backlight sounds great for motion(in combination with BFI?), it doesnt exactly sounds right for blacklevels.
@@ClosestNearUtopia That seems plausible. So if I understand correctly the liquid crystals are still doing their twisty thing half way between 2 colours when the backlight comes on and you end up seeing a blend of two colours?
@@Animal_lives_matter from what I understand and what you have told I am quite sure it is. Somehow the light hits the screen at the wrong moment. This can be due to the lcd panel be to slow compared to the speed of light, or if the lcd does “flash” out pictures, a slowdown by in the fluorescence layer not turning on fully at once.
There are two parts of the picture (left and right). Looks like the synch is off / & or maybe the processor is not able to do it correctly for both parts of the screen. Have you tried a full reset (service menu)? Unplugg it from electricty also for some minutes and hold power button. PWM could be the issue (not synced correctly, which is really weird).
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Is this VA or IPS / ADS?. I will test on my ADS panel (65) if there is something wrong with the UFO test. EDIT: okay, my TV doesn´t do that. It is exactly the same, left and right. I don´t think it has to do with the size, TV screens are in 2 parts. I think there is something wrong, or it is an issue specific with your model.
Ariel! TODAY i tested sdr fps, std sharpness and yes it looks sharp like in your video BUT on hdr sharpness works entirely differently! If in sdr after value 15 in std sharpness becomes sharp again but on the other hand on hdr it stays anti aliased AND on hdr sharpbess is less aggressive even on if you set fps preset. For example if sharpness fps 15 will look very, very sharp on sdr , on hdr it will be minor compared to sdr. JUST CHECK PLEASE, i think people should know about this, you can check it by looking at lips, fence, or for example some tine objects or texts. BUT please check it deliberately, i am telling you it’s different. Thank you and if you know any workaround please tell me.
Is this a VA or IPS panel? this could be caused by it being a VA which most LCD TVs are and VA displays have way slower response times. I have a Samsung G7 monitor which is a 240hz VA and it has noticeable smearing especially in dark areas in games with lots of trees and grass.
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 ahh thats most likely the issue then i had to get rid of my G7 monitor because the smearing in near black areas with lots of trees , grass etc looked so bad. even on fences its so noticable. i got a LG C3 Evo OLED now and its just night and compared to my samsung VA. like you i was also spoit with having a Panasonic Viera many years ago and used to be blown away by its picture quality and motion clarity i honestly think LCD tech was a major downgrade from what he had in the past. OLED is probably the closest thing to my plasma always gonna miss that TV lol.
You have some kind of pseudo BFI caused by the flickering of the panel light sources. Their pwm is not synchronized. Try to change panel brightness an retest.
Does someone know properly settings for anime on oled lg c1 on windows? Completly black is a little bit light, but games or films have full black. Black level limited fix the problem, but its 100% wrong to make limited black level on windows? Fine black areas -3 also fix it, but this setting only available in gaming mode. Or maybe this is ok for anime do not have full black. Can't google the solution(
Hey man, how are you? I just wanted to ask you, from where can I find out which game uses upscaling method, like checkerboard, drs, taa and so on.. is there any website? Thank you☺️
Fascinating problem. I've never heard or seen of this issue before! Who knows what's causing it, but I believe larger screens use several backlight controllers, and maybe LG didn't bother syncing them properly on that model because it's a budget model. I use a 65" 2016 year model Samsung KS7000. When I point my phone at it and lower the backlight a bit to induce PWM flicker, then I get a nicely even black diagonal wipe traveling across the screen with no breakups or synchronization issues. Now I'm curious to see what this looks like on more screens!
Hey man, hope you are enjoying summer:) Ariel why when Sharpness is set 39 it’s sharp but then you go to 30 and it becomes blurry. The thing is that when i want to use sharpness 29 in the input where i play games, it doesn’t look sharp, it works differently for some reason . Do you know why? And how can I solve that. Man, I am so tired of the sharpness setting, wish you were here so that you could help me. Btw do you have discord man? I would like to ask you questions there (if you allow me of course) cause there is no real time communication. Thank you ☺️
Hey bro, pretty sure I know what this is. The PWM flicker frequencies of the backlight zones(what you see on your camera as a scanning bar) are not synced up to each other. It's probably causing gtg visibility variance between the two screen halves you are talking about. That's pretty horrible lol, my condolences. Hopefully not a lot of tvs are like this.
I wonder if the engineers knew the displays were rolling off the production line with this issue and then realised that fixing it would mean writing off the whole production run at a massive loss so instead they just leave it cause they know the average buyer won't notice. Because the engineers are pretty clever but that doesn't mean they are moral people. What would really aggravate me is if they knew it at the design stage and just said "screw it, who cares, the panels will not be in sync but let's just do it anyway" now that would grind my gears
I love how Plasma’s intro is a massive inhale. Super unique
And how fast he moves too just sells it, almost like he is on a rig or something haha
Never stop making videos, man. You are the only reviewer here who points out true issues people may run into l.
If I go to the store and I see this issue on more TVs, I'm going to wonder why I don't see more people talking about it. ThisnLG TV is so new, it has less than 300 hours
TV makers worse nightmare - Blur Busters UFO test 😂
You are so right. That would drive me nuts!
YES please do this with as many LCD TVs in the store as you can. Specifically the Sony Bravia 9, TCL QM851, and Hisense U8N or UX. Those are all the high end LCDs. Thanks!!
I'm definitely going to do that, I'm going to be shocked if I see the same issue
Because I don't see others talking about it
@@plasmatvforgaming9648Remember to turn off "shop mode" LG C1 has such a function in the options. It may be the same here. Maybe With"store mode" There will be no problem🤦🤣😮💨
Looks like the tv uses low hz PWM for brightness control with two seperate backlights. They didn't bother to phase lock the two backlights so even if they are the same hz they are at a different phase to each other.
It's a case of tv manufacturers being completely ignorant about human visible pwm artifacts, If they must use pwm they need to use 20khz+, or dc dimming.
Hmm maybe they are supposed to be phase locked but there is some clock drift making it go out of sync and the error builds up over time. Maybe OP could do a hard reset and see if the sync is initially good?
Just a random example that popped into my head, NVIDIA drivers since 2016 have this slight clock error when implementing the CTA timings used for HDTV signals like 1080p etc. It's off by the tiniest of margins like 0.001hz it adds up to a dropped frame every 16 minutes which is noticeable across a 2hr movie. The point is, a tiny error can be a big problem.
Maybe the screen has 4 different lcd drivers... And some are better than others... or they are all set to different refresh rates...
I remember around 8 years ago there was this super ultrawide monitor where the left and right halves of the screen were driven by separate drivers. Some of the complaints were along the lines of... "Sometimes one side is a tiny bit darker or brighter than the other." and "Sometimes there is desync or tearing between the 2 halves."
I can totally see refreshrates getting out of sync with each other in a format like that.
Great content as always! 😇
This reminds me of the issue backlight strobing caused on gaming monitors, they made parts of the image blurry. Nowadays they use several horizontal zones that strobe in sync, which improved the blurriness when using BFI. I have the option on my VG27AQ3A to choose if i want my strobing sweetspot to be top, bottom or in the middle. This looks like it might be a similar issue. Camera clearly shows alternating strobing (due to actual BFI being enabled or just PWM flicker). Why they made it alternate like that, I dont know. Its an older TV. Remember how the first 4k 60hz monitors used to work? They required two displayport cables and were driven by two different 30hz signals for each half of the screen.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Sure. I was just guessing, though. Could be related to one of the things I mentioned, or it could be something completely different. Strange, nevertheless...
Try increasing vertical totals in CRU and see if this helps. Increase vertical totals as much as possible so you wont exceede pixel clock limit. Leave the rest on default. You can read more about this on blur busters.
Interesting
Waiting for the video " how to match the white balance of iPhones on TVs" 👌🏻👋🏻
I'll do that one
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 🫱🏻🫲🏾
I can definitely see plenty of motion blur on my VA miniled qn90b 43', the thing is, image clarity is already getting killed by temporal anti aliasing methods in modern games, I do become more distracted by the TV's own motion issues in older games that don't use TAA though.
Yes, TAA isually sucks in motion
Interesting, would like to see if it's just your TV or if they all do it.
My first guess would be maybe variance in the liquid crystal response time across the panel.
My second guess would be some kind of row and column driver sync issue like you mentioned.
Those dark patches caught by the camera make it seem like the panel has some scanning backlight , maybe that is not synchronised across the width of the screen?
I'd bet it's like that in more TVs
I think this is a reasonable explanation. Yes the sync is off, and i dont mean compared towards the two strobing backlight.
Its more seems the backlight isnt fully in sync with its own lcd side on a moleculair level. even tough it looks like lcd refreshes frames at once, its possible they really dont. Like really old lcds, which you can see refreshing when you changed to another screen, and see the frame popping up scrolling from top to bottom.
Now, in this case the top left refreshes to soon, light hits it to early for best image quality, pixels are turned on to late. Where the lcd light on the left bottom hits it at exactly the right moment.
The upper right of the lc is also in sync with the second back light, where the bottom is to slow and shows half shifted pixels to off. Light is fast, pixels arent.
Next question is, how is this illuminated, from all sides? Is there a led driver? Is it a full fluorescence layer behind maybe creating a slowdown from top to botting while turning on( in case of modern lcds truling showing a picture at a flash)
Could there be a way to calibrate the timing for a overal better image in the service menu?
Where a dc backlight sounds great for motion(in combination with BFI?), it doesnt exactly sounds right for blacklevels.
@@ClosestNearUtopia
That seems plausible. So if I understand correctly the liquid crystals are still doing their twisty thing half way between 2 colours when the backlight comes on and you end up seeing a blend of two colours?
@@Animal_lives_matter from what I understand and what you have told I am quite sure it is. Somehow the light hits the screen at the wrong moment. This can be due to the lcd panel be to slow compared to the speed of light, or if the lcd does “flash” out pictures, a slowdown by in the fluorescence layer not turning on fully at once.
There are two parts of the picture (left and right). Looks like the synch is off / & or maybe the processor is not able to do it correctly for both parts of the screen. Have you tried a full reset (service menu)? Unplugg it from electricty also for some minutes and hold power button. PWM could be the issue (not synced correctly, which is really weird).
This TV has less than 300 hours. Maybe the warranty should be contacted
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Is this VA or IPS / ADS?. I will test on my ADS panel (65) if there is something wrong with the UFO test. EDIT: okay, my TV doesn´t do that. It is exactly the same, left and right. I don´t think it has to do with the size, TV screens are in 2 parts. I think there is something wrong, or it is an issue specific with your model.
Thanks for letting me know 👍
Ariel! TODAY i tested sdr fps, std sharpness and yes it looks sharp like in your video BUT on hdr sharpness works entirely differently! If in sdr after value 15 in std sharpness becomes sharp again but on the other hand on hdr it stays anti aliased AND on hdr sharpbess is less aggressive even on if you set fps preset. For example if sharpness fps 15 will look very, very sharp on sdr , on hdr it will be minor compared to sdr. JUST CHECK PLEASE, i think people should know about this, you can check it by looking at lips, fence, or for example some tine objects or texts. BUT please check it deliberately, i am telling you it’s different. Thank you and if you know any workaround please tell me.
My C1 is on its box because I'm in the process of moving. I'll check when I can
Thanks for sharing
Is this a VA or IPS panel? this could be caused by it being a VA which most LCD TVs are and VA displays have way slower response times. I have a Samsung G7 monitor which is a 240hz VA and it has noticeable smearing especially in dark areas in games with lots of trees and grass.
I believe it's VA
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 ahh thats most likely the issue then i had to get rid of my G7 monitor because the smearing in near black areas with lots of trees , grass etc looked so bad. even on fences its so noticable. i got a LG C3 Evo OLED now and its just night and compared to my samsung VA. like you i was also spoit with having a Panasonic Viera many years ago and used to be blown away by its picture quality and motion clarity i honestly think LCD tech was a major downgrade from what he had in the past. OLED is probably the closest thing to my plasma always gonna miss that TV lol.
You have some kind of pseudo BFI caused by the flickering of the panel light sources. Their pwm is not synchronized. Try to change panel brightness an retest.
I'll check changing the brightness
At the maximum brightness of the panel, there should be no PWM, and the screen should be maximally blurred everywhere
Good research.
I guess on cheap panels you are much more likely to find inconsistencies. You are bad used to your LG C1 OLED hahaha
I really hope I can see a time where a thin panel styled tv can beat old crt, regardless whatever technique being used.
This Tav has better motion than many CRTs
czcams.com/video/N6tGrTwKZp4/video.html
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 but still has all other cons;)
Does someone know properly settings for anime on oled lg c1 on windows? Completly black is a little bit light, but games or films have full black. Black level limited fix the problem, but its 100% wrong to make limited black level on windows? Fine black areas -3 also fix it, but this setting only available in gaming mode. Or maybe this is ok for anime do not have full black. Can't google the solution(
Try this, use HDR with this ICC profile
czcams.com/video/MirACvDvnQM/video.html
Hey man, Ariel what max sharpness would you go even for the game that are terrible wrong, fps 20? 25?
10-15 would be as high as I'd go. But I'm not sure how what you're looking at looks like, you have to try it
How are you doing man? Any updates about that 3d stuff you've been testing out?
Moving next week and will have time for videos. It's coming for sure
Hey man, how are you? I just wanted to ask you, from where can I find out which game uses upscaling method, like checkerboard, drs, taa and so on.. is there any website? Thank you☺️
I don't know, I hear DF mention it on their videos
Hey Ariel, I know that you rarely check replies so I wanted to thank you for you help to me. 😊
What if you set sharpness fps 15 and it looks blurry?
Try increasing it more. That's an ugly one
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Hahaha😂, yeah that call of duty ww2 ps4 version
Hello man, did you calibrate iphone white balance settings?
I haven't been able to make a video in 15 days. I'll have more time after next week when I finish my move
Hello Plasma😊
What's up
Plasma, do you by chance live in the U.S.? I saw you received your citizenship
Yes sir
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 excellent. Welcome and congrats!
Which tv model is this?
86UR8000A
Fascinating problem. I've never heard or seen of this issue before! Who knows what's causing it, but I believe larger screens use several backlight controllers, and maybe LG didn't bother syncing them properly on that model because it's a budget model. I use a 65" 2016 year model Samsung KS7000. When I point my phone at it and lower the backlight a bit to induce PWM flicker, then I get a nicely even black diagonal wipe traveling across the screen with no breakups or synchronization issues. Now I'm curious to see what this looks like on more screens!
I'm definitely going to the store and pointing my camera to all those big TVs
Can you please post a link to these types of videos on AVS Forums? There are so really bright people there who could figure it out.
The TV is broken.
Get a OLED.
Let's see how many are broken when I go into the store
!! 😢
Do you see the issue in yours?
@@plasmatvforgaming9648Mine is so old that it doesnt have this AFAIK (2009), but Ill have to test it out
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 I don't think so, since mine is from 2009. I'll have to test it though to know.
Even without this PMW issue you inherently get worse motion clarity the bigger the screen is, too.
That's right because objects move faster in our field of view
Why are you so sensitive to motion?
Because I got used to playing with BFI all the time
And because I pan the camera with a controller instead of a mouse
@@plasmatvforgaming9648 ohh I see
Hey man, hope you are enjoying summer:) Ariel why when Sharpness is set 39 it’s sharp but then you go to 30 and it becomes blurry. The thing is that when i want to use sharpness 29 in the input where i play games, it doesn’t look sharp, it works differently for some reason . Do you know why? And how can I solve that. Man, I am so tired of the sharpness setting, wish you were here so that you could help me.
Btw do you have discord man? I would like to ask you questions there (if you allow me of course) cause there is no real time communication. Thank you ☺️
At this point, you've tested the sharpness setting more than me, I haven't tried that high
I don't have discord