On the Dyno: Super Cool 1974 Ford Powered Pantera 427
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- čas přidán 25. 02. 2019
- While I was at Intermechanica doing some Lotus tuning. One of the customers stopped by with his 1974 Ford Powered Pantera. I admit I know nothing about these vehicles before meeting Jeff. He was a great guy to talk car stuff with and I am glad I was able to work on his Lotus and even peek at his Pantera ECM (Holley EFI). A true car guy through out. I had no plans of recording all of this at all but here it is.
Just amazing moment I though I would share
I shot this run and gun so it is a little shaky - :-) Enjoy
This on a mustang dyno which based on past testing is about 20% lower than dynojet or even our shop Dynapack.
www.jermainetuning.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
That thing is just dialed-in. Every gearhead, myself included, salivating at that sound.
Kudos to the owner for not painting it red or adding a dumb wing and flairs! Also, stock wheels !!
I have one: the older 1972 Pre-L version. She still has the 351C.
Just gorgeous. You know this is a legit shop considering the company of Lotus Elises and a Noble
Love these cars.
Everyone just fixed the cooling issue with a bigger radiator and more powerful fan(s)
It's a super easy fix, too.
The Dart block would have been "stroked" to get 427" honest mistake and I absolutely love it ! Drooling as I write this! 👍
Any small block Ford would have to be over bored and stoked to make 7 litres.
I was going to say thats a HELL of a cylinder wall thickness to get 76 cubic inches from JUST boring the cylinders while retaining the stock stroke. I know my Motown block wont
They only spun it to 5300 rpm and it sounded like it hit a limiter, 361 whp isn't much for an aluminum headed 427. Either he's been lied to or it needs to go to 6500 . Should be deep into the 400's if not 500whp if that's a good head cam package
I couldn't make out much what they said about it.
I heard it hit the Rev limiter, must be adjustable.
The only car that still looks good with American bumpers!
If you have the widebody yes otherwise youll cry
One of the best sports cars
Sounds like a freaking beast. Love it.
I really love the magnesium rims
The Dyno is the Doctor of the muscle car.
Awesome GUY / CAR combination
Panteras are awesome, my Uncle had one for a while that I got to sit in when I was younger, is that a Noble M-400?? As well next to it while on the dyno, great cars..
Sweet ride!!
Apparently, Dart makes small blocks with a larger bore spacing than Ford did. I wonder which parts fit the Dart and Cleveland blocks, but not the Windsor block - timing chain cover?
it starts diaspointingly well :D
Perfect, I never cared for the wings and flares!
exactly, me either. They just screw with the clean lines just to pimp things up
walking behind the car when its on the dyno like that is a great way to catch a rock in the eye or privates lol.
Ive always loved the look of the car Italian styling with American muscle its best of both worlds
BEUTIFUL CAR, AWSOME SOUND!!!!
No Cleveland heads. It’s a Windsor with the afr heads…. Would have liked to see some kind of Cleveland head on it. CHI TRICKFLOW OR worked over stock Cleveland heads. That would have got my attention.
That Noble right next to it💯
Awesome band !!!!!
Top 3 Metal Bands of all time,just like the car.
@@WillS-pl8wg there's only one real heavy metal band, second place is not even close, commercial... And radio play does not count, Heart 🖤 is the only thing that matters.
Walk on home, boy...
@@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443 i was looking for this comment
Awesomeness
How much cam is in there? I'm mostly interested in duration @0.050", overlap, LSA, advance ground into the cam, and let's just throw in intake centerline too....
Was that dead spot the rev limiter?
Sounded like it wasn't pulling anymore even tho it had more in it. He needs a good EFI tuner.
PANTERA THE UNDISPUTABLE KING OF ALL MUSCLE CARS.
You should stop smoking pot, it’s killed to many brain cells already.
Not a muscle car italian sports car
It's a floor cleaner AND a delicious dessert topping.
Lol yeah right ....does that look like a f×××÷n muscle car to you ,FYI corvette not a muscle car either
Ford 427 a monster.
351 c
I would get some flat black stove paint, and paint the mufflers, not the tips!!!.. the shiny part reflecting back at every car that looks at it.
Awh it sounds so delicious!
Stock they would corner hard enough to get the fuel in the float bowls to slosh up the sides and away from the jets. On the track they would cut out and in again. Fuel injection would be awesome.
Nice. Like the updates, auto tuning EFI. But the motor is a little disappointing, with all the mods and work done to it..a stock Coyote would actually have about 10hp on it.
So pleased it's on original Donut Tyres...Low profile looks all wrong .
It's cool. And I appreciate the parts you used are bad ass, but do you wish you coyote swaped after the pull?
How do you get 427cid with a 3.50 stroke and even with a new block 4.25 bore? Normal dart block is a 4 inch bore
4.250" would be the max bore. It's doable....just requires new sleeves when damage occurs. For example let's just say it were to drop a valve due to an ignorant ear when valve float occurs.
If it's a Dart block, it ain't a Cleveland....nasty cam though
Look at the heads. Them lookin alot like Windsor based valve covers too. Gonna have atleast a 4" stroke regardless of whatever block or bore it may have to be in the 427" range
Good Lord dude- at 12:48 how long you gonna run it on the rev limiter?!?
Small diameter roller Mustang dyno?
Why risk the tires?
Still trying to figure what he meant by it dieseling at 1700 - 1800 rpm?
Just put a good water pump and block the internal bypass with a bleed hole in the block, that will fix the cooling problems these engines suffer regardless of the body the engine exists in.
9.2" deck height or 9.5" block?
They only spun it to 5300 rpm and it sounded like it hit a limiter, 361 whp isn't much for an aluminum headed 427. Either he's been lied to or it needs to go to 6500 . Should be deep into the 400's if not 500whp if that's a good head cam package. Beautiful car
True, but look at the giant flat torque curve--it will be a blast to drive and run virtually forever at that tuning level.
Where in NY is this place?
I call this the forgotten American muscle super car
It's not a Ford. It's an Italian De Tomaso Pantera with an American engine
Absolytely right!! Original De Tomaso Pantera is made in Italy and equpped 5.3 litre Cleveland engine. It is a "transatlantic" sportcar
@@jyrkikoskinen8402 The master creator/owner and The Man is Argentinian: Alejandro DeTomaso, born and raised in Argentina, the original cars emblem is the Argentinian flag: light blue and white. The factory was in Italy, but Alejandro always was very proud to mention that it was an Argentine vehicle. The same goes for Horacio Pagani, born and raised in Argentina, but his factory is in Italy. Sorry to burst your murican and italian bubbles.
@@jyrkikoskinen8402 not even a muscle car like many seem to think
@@The7dioses yea tho the he immigrated to italy and set up the company there so its an italian car its the same with Pagani argentinian designer that has his factory in italy so its an italian car ... bugatti was a italian that lived in france so its a french car ... thats how it works no matter were the people come from your car is grom the country were you setup your company so yeah your dumbass is wrong and you know shit
@@jyrkikoskinen8402
Actually the 351 Cleveland is 5.8L
This airfilter will be a restrictor on anything over 250hp. A good engine would rev freely up to 7k
Clean Pantera, not a fan of the bumpers that were required to meet US safety standards. My close friend has a 72 with the small chrome bumpers, but his is a Cleveland 351 not a Dart 427. I always thought white was a great color for Panteras, nice sled!
If the tyres are 295 how come they pop out 'donut' style (which I love) as you put it? I've seen the 315s and 325s on panteras but they don't pop. Your wheels and tyres look incredible.
The 315s and 335s are typically on 17x11" wheels (not 15x10 like with the 295s).
I've had 2 different brands of tires the exact same size be a 1/2 inch different in width.
Made in Great Britain AVON tyres 🇬🇧
I had one for 12 yrs. Stock is pretty shitty. Modified - expensive ( Hall Pantera) but freakin cool!
4:22 - "...it's actually a 427, but not stroked, just bored."
The exact point this video lost ALL credibility.
Yeah he obviously didn't build it
@David Baumgardner - he obviously doesn't know much of anything, about anything. Did you hear the comment he made about tire choices being very limited for 15" wheels? 15" wheels were basically standard on damned near everything that wasn't an econo-box import for nearly 30 years. Then he goes off bragging about his wheels with yet another 🦬💩 story.
I don't know who the guy is... but he'd do well to research the car and get his facts straight, instead of making an a$$ of himself.
Yeah, going by what he's told.
It looks like a Fiero in the front and a Countach in the back.
Panteras where never slow. They came with a 4bbl 351 C. The stroker 427 might have a bit more torque, but the original engine would make more horsepower. He explains why he went to the motor that he did. way back in the day, I owned a 77 AMC Gremlin I bought cheap. It has a 258 six cylinder engine and three speeds trans, and i know, it was a dog. One night I was running down the freeway at 55 mph when a panthers pulled up next to me. I looked over at the guy driving the Pantera, dropped it into second and shot ahead of the Pantera. Ok, maybe not jumped, but it was enough to get him moving. I tried to keep up, reving to 5600 rpm, which was only possible because a buddy hooked me using up with a large one barrel carb. As I did it was cool to watch the Pantera flying away from me, watching his tail lights got so close I though they would briefly merge before disappearing. I never thought I could take him, but I love performance care and wanted to see what it would do. It did!
She's got a rev limiter way low, 6000 grand?
If it's really a 427, especially an old one, 6000 is conservative, but not "way low." Personally, I find it sacrilege to replace the 351c4bbl with a big block, but a real 427 is hard to beat, especially if one can't source a 351c4bbl original. Even a 351c without significant work shouldn't be pushed far above 6,500. The heads of a 4bbl could flow well at higher speeds, but the bottom end just wasn't up for it. Mods change that, of course.
Anyway, he said the rev limiter was set to 6,800, but he himself never ran it above 6,000. My "rev limiter" is set to "infinity," in that I don't have one. My engine still has a points ignition and a carb. That's what the red arrow on the aftermarket tach is for.
Or wait... I took it for granted that you were being unintentionally redundant. "6000 grand" would be 600,000 rpm! Not low by any standard! You did mean 6,000 rpm, right?
[edit]
Um... hang on, the guy in the video doesn't actually say it's a 427, but a racing block that's been bored to 427. I didn't hear him say what the block was based on, only the company it came from, and that it has larger cooling jackets than the original Cleveland. That changes things.
My engine has been bored and if you do the math, that makes it 357 cubic inch displacement. I don't call it a "357c." It's a 351c4bbl bored out.
I'd like to see a proper build list for the engine in this video.
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[edit]
Those numbers are not outside what a 351c4bbl can do. Torque is quite good, but HP is middling. I'm not sure how this will effect overall performance on a Pantera, as I've no experience with that chassis.
However, I will say that when I wheel dyno-ed my engine many years ago, with less than optimal pistons, I got a fairly "square" result, about 400 hp and 400 lb/ft, give or take. I forget the exact numbers, it was a long time ago. This was with a high-output coil (which kept burning points) and analogue everything. It was slightly under-carbureted with a 600 cfm Holly 4160. According to the manuals I had at the time, 750cfm would have given a bit more power, 700 being about perfect (good luck, it's a strange number in carburetor land).
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My Cleveland is mounted, perhaps inappropriately, in a 1970 F-100 Sport Custom pickup. My dad got it that way when I was in Jr.High, and when he got a new truck, it became my high-school hot-rod. I had so much fun blowing the doors off of the "hot" cars that parked at my high-school (most not nearly as hot as their owners thought they were, knocking off the original exhaust makes your car loud, not fast).
Anyway, I think my engine originally came from a Mustang Mach1, or maybe a Gran Torino, but when I tried to find youtube video (going back many years now) of something that sounded vaguely like it, none of those cars fit. My engine has a hot cam and high compression pistons. It barely idles at 950rpm, sounds like a WWII fighter at 4000 rpm, and like hell unleashed at 6000 rpm. It sounds like a Pantera with mods and glass-pack mufflers.
Well, it would, except it's not running right now. I need to tear the engine apart again, and do some machine work to make the rings on the hypereutectic pistons seal. That last rebuild didn't go quite as planned.
Also need to fix body damage, rust, missing trim pieces, stiffen the frame and re-tighten the rivets, modernize the suspension (swaybars would be nice)... a geared starter would be good (I think I went through at least 6 stock starters and melted two positive battery posts, and crumbled at least one starter solenoid, owing to either extreme hot or extreme cold starts... um, and a couple of both that would take too much time to explain). Oh, and the granny four speed is great for a work truck, but all wrong for the engine.
Oh well, the oldest of my unfinished projects. I have too many of those, but I don't want to get rid of any of them.
Its a Dart 351W block with 4.185 bores and 400 Ford stock 4.000 stroke crank, alloy Windsor (, probably Edlebrock or maybee Yates A3...I dont know guys, help me out! ) heads, the best way to avoid the Clevelands notorious savage streak of wide based incipient detonation and the hard-eged staccatto that goes with it. The ANSA style exhaust has always had a 1500 rpm boomb in Panteras. I love both the Cleveland 351, 87-89 Clevors and the 90-94 Si's with EFi GT40 headed 5.0's. If its a Ford engine. And I gotta say, aint nothin" goin' on but the Rent with the 74 rubber bumper L with the GTS makeover. What a great combination of parts. Its a Bitchin' mobile....props to the owner. LA's got some great people. The 4th gear is 0.970:1, and the later 5th gear after 71 model year is 0.746. There were other gearsets, including 3.77 axles in the Maserati Bora and BMW M1 which shared de Tomasos GT40 gearbox. With 295/50 15 Avon Turbospeeds and the 4.22 axle, that car is perfectly geared. The 5250 rpm rating for hp and lb ft is just a flash reading. With the standard 1.27 driveline loss, thats a really stout street engine. Owner Jeff...you got it going on Sir.
Ah the AFR aluminum headed Dart Block 427, up to 575 hp when fuel injected. See czcams.com/video/ScuBZDqLJjg/video.html
you dont buzz a 427 up to 9 grand moron...
Something that sounds that good should be loud. Often times its the loud ones that are annoying. Like Mazdas with the wankle engine. Lol!
👍👍😎👍👍
Ha Ford le puma et la gt40 sont mais préférer elles ont des lignes intemporelle non
Well I suppose he got his EFI figured out.....too large of a cam will render his type of problems for self learning EFI systems.
If that is a 427, then he should be making 500ft lbs or more at the wheels.
If I had a $ for every erm, I could afford a pantera.
You need 325/17/40 series tires in the back Not those fat balloon 🎈 tires.
What car is that to the right?
James Aron , that looks like a Noble M12 GTO-3R.
This is DeTomaso Pantera with a ford engine ,,,,,
Pourquoi elle ressemble autant à la l Lamborghini
HELLO, THAT'S NOT A FORD, IT'S EVEN THOUGH IT HAS FORD ENGINE, IT'S A DETOMASO PANTERA IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMBLEM HAS THE ARGENTINE FLAG SINCE HE DESIGNED IT WHILE LIVING IN ITALY. FORD INVESTED IN DEVELOPMENT SO THE BEST IT HAS IS THAT BEAUTIFUL ENGINE WITH ITALIAN DESIGN
Yes! Alejanro De Tomaso are born in the Argentina and made cars in Italy.
And were sold at Lincoln/Mercury dealers in the US. Curious if anyone knows how many were sold in Argentina and Italy....
The body of the Pantera was designed by Tom Tjaarda (an American) while he work for Ghia Coach Works which at the time (and still is ) owned by Ford Motor Company. So, this Italian automobile was designed by an American while working for an American owned company with an American built engine. Most ‘71 Panteras came with 351W engines.
Le moteur et mal placer et faur le poser en large entre les 2 roues arriere comme le mitique colombo 1L5 et le v12 2L5 magnifique 🤲😑🙏
*DeTomaso Pantera. Not a Ford product.
Thats right. built by and created by Alejandro DeTomaso, a very talented Argentinian.
Which is why the title says “Ford Powered”. Because they used Ford V8s.
"sounds perfect"... No, it's better than that!!!
Bounce it off the chip til you wreck all the valvetrain.. and its not even up there rpm-wise. This is why "tuners" and engine builders dont get along. Sick dopetey dope bro.. pop and bang bruh
Did Barack Obama make this video.
Yeah with Joe
DETOMASO not ford its an italian car stop claiming shit for america
But that's what we do, if you got something we like then we take it ...
Too much talking
It's Powered by FORD!
Naah, i thought you were going to dyno the stock configged Cleveland. What's the point? Who cares now? Besides dude who drives it?