I took a degree in English and Media studies about ten years ago: at no time was Postmans name mentioned. Having trudged through an endless number of very poorly written text-books by dreadful 50's French academics who tried to disguise the fact that they had nothing of interest to say by writing in a pretentious and unclear manner, reading Postman (recently) has been a pleasure; clear and simple prose that makes a coherent and powerful argument.
I'm only discovering Postman now and I'm gripped by what he's saying and how he's articulating it. What's frightening for me, above all else, is not just the grip that media and technology have on our lives, but how little of it we understand. Even today in the middle of a world-wide coding boom where tech specs and information has never been more available, we place so much trust and faith in hardware and software that our species has built, but we as individuals have no idea how they work. As users, we have amassed amazing skills in terms of mechanical interaction and problem solving, due in part to the computer revolution, but for that most of us are mechanically and technically blind. It's being the world's best racing driver, but not having a clue what makes the car go. In that light, we can see our age as little more than that of the button-presser or knob-twiddler. I wouldn't expect everyone to have a computer engineering mind-set (I certainly don't despite my interest in such areas), but I at least want to have an understanding of the the things which shape my life quite dramatically. What concerns me is how content people are living with black boxes everywhere, accepting and embracing the new thing without question.
I see a lot of the problem being that we not only can't recognize the problem, but that we can't even focus on it long enough to analyze it. I dare you to find two millenials who can finish a sentence without looking at their phone at least once. Technology has integrated itself more as part of culture, than anything else. Are we using it; or is it using us?
Intelligent discourse has always been available, through various mediums. But the internet has allowed it to be drowned out by rampant narcissism and trivial self-indulgence.
About 4:39 through 4:54 just about sums it all up. His books have had me rising up from my studious silence and talking out loud about how right he was. And it's interesting he mentions having discussion in schools about the effects of new media on society. Nowadays, the schools have incorporated technological devices as necessary learning tools. A good book title for him if he were still alive would be "Rotten to a Common Core."
Neil Postman was a prophet. Nothing superstitious or mystical about him. Not a soothsayer. He simply analyzed and paid attention to what was going on around him and connected the dots. Very wise.
I'm British, but this man was bang on in his analysis of the pernicious effects of the electronic media on social discourse. The UK is just as bad as the States in this regard. Of course, everything is a 100 times worse now than when this was filmed in 1985 , and the West is going to Hell at a rate of knots.
It does work, indeed. Even if today there's such a possibility (to gain a complete understanding of a scenario) it's irrelevant if people doesn't seek for such gain because they are too distracted by more entertaining things. And the majority of media, even those dedicated to inform people, has to be entertaining to be watched. We are definitely amusing ourselves to death.
@@daydreamerization I second this-Postman was not a Luddite as JimboParadox states, he was concerned intellectually with what would happen to rationality as entertainment became synonymous with real content. We're currently living in the middle of a vapid post-truth media war, Donald Trump is Commander in Chief, and corporations are people. I must say, Postman was correct... CZcams is one among many platforms for public grievances to be shared globally, perhaps out of this adolescent spectacle of media incoherence we will take a collective step into maturity and begin to reassess the negative externalities which have exploded out of such mindless technological saturations... also, maybe we're fucked-but we're all dead anyways so I guess _whatever_ in the end.
JimboParadox Sure, if you have the basic cognitive mapping required to be able to sift through the endless refuse then you have increased access, otherwise it’s a minefield. Marketing and politics have been cashing in on emotive appeals (manufacturing consent) much more than fostering solid platforms for discursive debates about substantial global issues. We’ve specialized and fractured priorities into a million microcosmic shards which quantify good in weights of gold rather than empirical social benefits. Education has failed us in the critical thinking department, like you said _most people reward rhetoric and rhythm over logic and content._ This is the point that Postman makes I think when he says that we are amusing/entertaining ourselves to death. Real content denotes factual/verified journalistic/scientific information, entertainment is the trivial junk which helps us to disavow critical issues. I think entertainment is inherent to real content since education is expanding and progressive, but entertainment in itself is not educational in the critical sense. The problem is in degrees clearly... I don’t want to live in a world with no entertainment, but the priorities (especially in the corporate marketing/ID politics landscape) is showing a depressing trend toward inanity and tribalism. What’s overwhelmingly cool in pop culture today is vapid entertainment trivialities like how much money a new CardiB song made or how many viewers PewDiePie has on CZcams, not necessarily deeper reflective aspirations about meaning or direction in life. Postmodernity has oriented us toward money/sex and amusement for great profits, it has reconceived meaning as “fun” on our way to the grave. Hopefully more humility and solidarity with those who suffer can rise up from the smog of fleeting distractions and help to reshape the terrain of what’s considered good/cool. I think we’re lost in fantasy though, probably going to take a mega-catastrophe to shake us out of our business as usual state of mind.
@JimboParadox There is a pernicious effect of digital media, but we're talking about issues here so that's obviously good. Data is being abused by industry to pull out the stitches of tradition in order to usher us into their brand identity (via neuromarketing, lobbying, spiritual appropriation). We need educators to counter this type of utilitarian calculus and introduce students to the tension of morality rather than manufacture narrow "experts" for deployment in corporate machines of growth. Instead of business warping institutions into producing "tools" for management styles, institutions should be creating "people" with an autonomous awareness of duty to the civic good-the difference is in the locus of morality. Arguments against the paternalistic overreach of the state here are morally inferior when considering the suffering of those individuals crushed beneath the cold supply chains of "free" market liberty. Hopefully we can shake off the madness of entertainment culture and media polarization and have some more substantial debates about current issues (refugees, globalization, inequity, precarity, corporate colonization, social malaise) to bring some relief to the emptiness of the modern discourse. A sign of hope for sure is that we can have such discussions through the web at all.
I got rid of my TV long ago never to return to that mundane pastime of mental oppression. Internet at least allows you to debate and to watch others debate important topics. I have learned more from watching youtube videos than I ever learned at university (says something ab our universities doesn't it?) As long as you choose wisely you can learn alot about a wide variety of subjects and you can do it from the comfort of your own home. I have learned 3 languages in 5 years
This misses the point of Postman’s critique. He’s not says that there are no productive uses for electronic media; rather that electronic media is inherently an entertainment medium that retrains the brain in such a way that we can’t separate entertainment from education. In this way we become subordinated to it and in the process compromise our capacity for reflection, critical thought and immersive experience. We can no longer think outside the box, as it were, or see past the screen. This is the real danger.
its at a level of discourse not common in modern times. The entire viewership of youtube will likely not understand that Neil Postman was fighting to prevent the technopoly from destroying the soul.
Ya, sacred ideas have been slain by the individualistic irreverence of celebrity culture.. “YOLO. Imma do me, etc.” The evangelical reactionaries haven’t help their cause either. Nothing better to push people away from piety than a bunch of acidic bible thumpers screaming about idolatry in an age where the social injunction has become “enjoy every amusement, recreate yourself anew, indulge before your death.”
The interviewer suggested there might be some hypocrisy in the idea of a TV interview about TV's pernicious influence, but saw no such hypocrisy in his bias cloaked in tough neutral analysis. Then says at the end 'We hope you'll tune in again next week..' He knows very well that he's done his best in this interview to make sure they will turn on their sets every day.. indeed, that they always will.
I remember when I used to watch television. 84% crap but kept coming back for the 3% gold, and the news/weather. No more of that passivity. I wouldn't wish such an existence for anybody
The music in this is great. Really atmospheric and creepy. A lot of 60s & 70s tv shows used this style of music. I love it. TV music today is bland and instantly forgettable.
Donald Trump is the perfect example of the evolutionary decline of public discourse Postman heralded. Here is what Postman feared would happen to Austria if it was penetrated by commercial television: "The effect on political life will be devastating. There will be less emphasis on issues, substance, and ideology, and an increase in the importance of image and style. Politicians will have greater concern for moment-to-moment shifts in public opinion, less concern for long-range policies. Unless the use of television for political campaigns is strictly prohibited, elections may be decided by which party spends more on television and media consultants....The line between political life and entertainment will blur, and movie and television stars may be taken seriously as political candidates..." ~ Neil Postman
If you watched the debate last night this statement is even more understated. There was little actual discussion on political ideology and lack of specifics all the way around. Just she'll games on who was more corrupt and and had the better image.
Arnold Schwarzenegger being a governor for the state of California; Dwayne J. being look as a president; even people joking about television stars, movie stars, video game stars being president. What a world. He was correct all along
Its much bigger than Trump. Both the GOP and Dems have asked The Rock to run for example. Neil couldn't imagine how fucking hard he hit the nail on the head
Richard Heffner's show was terribly thought provoking. Sadly he passed away in the recent past. Hopefully his grandson, Alexander Heffner will be able to fill some very large shoes left behind by his grandfather. The intro music to this show remind me of Japanese Haiku poetry.
Its a really interesting discourse in the days of youtube, especially when the most popular channels are mainly focussed around what he calls "talking heads".
A lot of youtube original content (ie that is not just posting or mimicking content from other sources) is talking heads. However, it gravitates towards a certain kind of talking heads. The internet in general, and youtube specifically is a very different medium that broadcast tv. One of the things you notice with talking heads on youtube is that they tend to be loud obnoxious catchy click-bait that encourages things like drama and comment flaming. Of course it's not all bad, but the most popular stuff tends to be lowest common denominator, very entertainment focused, very attention-grabbing, very non-intellectual, very flashy and emotional and animated. And a huge amount of popular youtube content that is not talking heads tends to be even more puerile adolescent emotion-driven non-intellectual scatter-brained drama novelty shock vulgarity silliness craziness than even traditional broadcast TV.
iamtheone whoiamlightt, well observed and on point with Neil Postmen and his founded department's research findings since 1970, Media Ecology. Hit the internet and watch old talking TV heads and news broadcast through the years. Buckley, Cronkite, Dan Rather, Dick Cavett, etc. just to name a few for contrast with today (e.g., The View, Jon Stewart
Dr. Postman was a great educator, as prescient a voice as this country has produced about the unintended effects of technology. 'Amusing Ourselves to Death' and its follow-up, 'Conscientious Objections' (though both written before the digital revolution) stand today as prophecies we are now (sadly) fulfilling.
I just finished this book and I am left with many thought provoking questions. As someone who grew up in an age where I was required to watch "The Voyage of the Mimi" in school, this book speaks volumes to me. I must not forget what I have learned here. I may reread this book in the future to reacquaint myself with this knowledge to make sure it is not lost. This knowledge is something of great importance.
Excellent point, all of which begs the question of whether "democracy" is even fully compatible with humans, since inevitably "lowest-common denominator" views and tastes must occur among the majority.
I notice both Postman and the interviewer never entertain the idea that the public response to 'American TV' style could be a neurological habit, like our reflex attraction to salt, fat and sugar that drives the fast-food industry, by annealing the format to what reflexively attracts eye-balls (so as to serve advertising) TV only exposed this foible, as innocently as Macdonalds. Which now begs the question: if this is the product of 'popular choice' what does this say about 'democracy'?
Oh, god, that 1970's music always creeps me out. The 1970's -- that time when the Tribe took over Western culture and began flexing their rat whiskers -- were a fashion disaster in every way.
Worst music ever. Poet Maya Angelou seemed to follow this particular "musical" interlude. The ending music (the outro) is also terrible. It forever altered the way I viewed her. How could she participate in a program with such awful music?
Haha, the "Tribe". Did they push the DOW over 6,000? Invade Vietnam? Perhaps they shoved us off the gold standard? Who is "the Tribe"? Case in point, aren't these two talking about how TV is altering the world? Who's behind that, this "Tribe"? Archie Bunker part of the Tribe? Perhaps Welcome Back, Kotter? Saturday night Fever? Taxi???
Very interesting how relevant this has stayed throughout the years. I had never interacted with Neil Postman's work before and it's quite fascinating. I love how he touches briefly on the computer. What a state we are in now haha!
“Picture papers” reminded me that my favorite popular magazine also went “picture” years ago. National Geographic knows that the pictures keep it in publication, and, to be fair, a good picture can tell a story. Yet in-depth writing and reporting on complex issues with varying viewpoints are the best way to learn about the world. Don’t ask me about the National Geographic Channel either. I’ve never watched it.
On the whole though I don't see the internet as being a force to swing things back at all. People come to this video because they were looking for intellectual depth, those who didn't will simply become bored and leave. I think the internet is likely to be a non-factor in regards to our capacity to sustain intelligent thought.
If you read books like "I Can See Far" and "Television: Prelude to Chaos", you will see tv the right side of the brain assembling the signal and it all going right to the feelings side of the brain. There may be resistance, but I think people will start thinking differently than they used to thanks to these lords of illusion. Families that kicked out their tv's have become happier and better adjusted. Smartphone users are having worse info. recall and social skills than before. I tried to get away but it pulls me back in!
That's basically what I was trying to get at. The internet isn't filled with proprietary content like TV is, it's designed so that popular sites are catering to what the masses want. If the majority of people have been conditioned by TV culture for so long they'll just bring it to the internet and use it as another means to entertain themselves.
Neil Postmans' head would explode by all the amount of talking big heads at youtube-land, especially Pewtiepie. LOL God forbid he ever visits tumblr. LMAO!!!
His book is entertaining enough but he's foolish to think that people haven't used reading as a trifle for thousands of years. Dante meets the first occupants in hell and finds that they perused a book of romance to flame the fans of their lust. Although I do agree that electronic media has made the world more insane, it was insane enough when it had recourse only to books.
did you actually read his book? admittedly, i just finished a second reading, but he mentions repeatedly that reading "as a trifle" (as you refer to it), is mostly fine. entertainment for entertainments sake. he says the same of television that is strictly meant to entertain. those things are not necessarily the issue. however, the issue becomes more alarming when you realize that this desire to entertain creeps into what would otherwise be considered serious or rigorous material (that is, deserving of rigorous study/attention). those serious matters could be politics, education, world news/issues, etc. furthermore, besides having a comparable deluge of trivia coming at us at all times, we also happen to think that what we're gleaning from these mediums/resources is incredibly important--when often it is not.
...Roger Waters has a telling tale of this book in musical form but should be listened to in its entirety for maximum effect....Amused to Death. Peace! "A Conspiracy of Silence Speaks "Louder Than Words." Dr. Winston O' Boogie
a source I often cite on this topic: Edward Bernays "Propaganda" circa 1920 proposes how society might stabilize if the population was given only the /illusion/ of choice, so each gets their own soda, their own car, their own fashion, their own anything unimportant -- we placate the public's need for "self determination" leaving the real job of running society to appointed corporate boards better equipped for the job. Frightening as that sounds, perhaps it is a viable approach? Are we the proof?
Important point! Western cultures fixation to get results maybe part of the "picturehunger" or need for fast clips, moving changing images. In order to get the feeling that "something is happening". The act necessary in getting results, the thinking, reflexion, consideration has been treated and considered as something unnecessary but it has started to shift. It seems to gain more respect. In Sweden we still have "free channels" (financed by everyone with a computor, written in law) which means tv with no commercial and not owned by an economic interest. In one of the channels you can watch the work and talks in the Swedish parliament and other "talking heads shows". www.svtplay.se/kanaler/svt2.
Alex Jones Of course, Sweden is part of western culture! Thankyou for the tip about C-Span. Still, as far as I could figure out from the information on their website, swedish "TV" differs from "C-Span".
Excellent discussion here, I think. And I agree on a societal level.....however, the internet differ from all the broadcast media, because it is entirely based on choice. You choose your own media diet and curriculum everytime you see the white space of Google. On an individual level, you an make it a really good thing in your life.
Proposals Relating to the Education of Youth in Pensilvania . Philadelphia, 1749 Modern Political Oratory being chiefly performed by the Pen and Press, its Advantages over the Ancient in some Respects are to be shown; as that its Effects are more extensive, more lasting, &c.
if he watched the TED conference in his later years he probably could realise that thinking and performing arts have become a challenge that's been overcome or at least thinking is active now
yall where the fuck does he talk about the peek a boo world i have to present tomorrow and i need a video help me right now thanks im out here stressin ok thanks peace
Truth is like poetry, and most people fucking hate poetry.
I took a degree in English and Media studies about ten years ago: at no time was Postmans name mentioned. Having trudged through an endless number of very poorly written text-books by dreadful 50's French academics who tried to disguise the fact that they had nothing of interest to say by writing in a pretentious and unclear manner, reading Postman (recently) has been a pleasure; clear and simple prose that makes a coherent and powerful argument.
Postmodernism lol
We’re reading this book for high school English
Did you read it in French?
I'm only discovering Postman now and I'm gripped by what he's saying and how he's articulating it. What's frightening for me, above all else, is not just the grip that media and technology have on our lives, but how little of it we understand.
Even today in the middle of a world-wide coding boom where tech specs and information has never been more available, we place so much trust and faith in hardware and software that our species has built, but we as individuals have no idea how they work.
As users, we have amassed amazing skills in terms of mechanical interaction and problem solving, due in part to the computer revolution, but for that most of us are mechanically and technically blind.
It's being the world's best racing driver, but not having a clue what makes the car go.
In that light, we can see our age as little more than that of the button-presser or knob-twiddler.
I wouldn't expect everyone to have a computer engineering mind-set (I certainly don't despite my interest in such areas), but I at least want to have an understanding of the the things which shape my life quite dramatically. What concerns me is how content people are living with black boxes everywhere, accepting and embracing the new thing without question.
Good points
I see a lot of the problem being that we not only can't recognize the problem, but that we can't even focus on it long enough to analyze it. I dare you to find two millenials who can finish a sentence without looking at their phone at least once. Technology has integrated itself more as part of culture, than anything else. Are we using it; or is it using us?
People don't even have a good understanding of human biology
Postman would love knowing that the internet, despite all its downfalls, allows intelligent people to find videos like this one.
Intelligent discourse has always been available, through various mediums. But the internet has allowed it to be drowned out by rampant narcissism and trivial self-indulgence.
About 4:39 through 4:54 just about sums it all up. His books have had me rising up from my studious silence and talking out loud about how right he was. And it's interesting he mentions having discussion in schools about the effects of new media on society. Nowadays, the schools have incorporated technological devices as necessary learning tools. A good book title for him if he were still alive would be "Rotten to a Common Core."
Neil Postman was a prophet. Nothing superstitious or mystical about him. Not a soothsayer. He simply analyzed and paid attention to what was going on around him and connected the dots. Very wise.
Way ahead of his time !
First the television. Now the smartphone. Will the world get tinier and tinier as we all have fun together?
Just wait for the brain chip. We'll have so much fun together, then!
I'm British, but this man was bang on in his analysis of the pernicious effects of the electronic media on social discourse. The UK is just as bad as the States in this regard. Of course, everything is a 100 times worse now than when this was filmed in 1985
, and the West is going to Hell at a rate of knots.
It does work, indeed. Even if today there's such a possibility (to gain a complete understanding of a scenario) it's irrelevant if people doesn't seek for such gain because they are too distracted by more entertaining things. And the majority of media, even those dedicated to inform people, has to be entertaining to be watched. We are definitely amusing ourselves to death.
@@daydreamerization I second this-Postman was not a Luddite as JimboParadox states, he was concerned intellectually with what would happen to rationality as entertainment became synonymous with real content. We're currently living in the middle of a vapid post-truth media war, Donald Trump is Commander in Chief, and corporations are people. I must say, Postman was correct...
CZcams is one among many platforms for public grievances to be shared globally, perhaps out of this adolescent spectacle of media incoherence we will take a collective step into maturity and begin to reassess the negative externalities which have exploded out of such mindless technological saturations... also, maybe we're fucked-but we're all dead anyways so I guess _whatever_ in the end.
JimboParadox Sure, if you have the basic cognitive mapping required to be able to sift through the endless refuse then you have increased access, otherwise it’s a minefield. Marketing and politics have been cashing in on emotive appeals (manufacturing consent) much more than fostering solid platforms for discursive debates about substantial global issues. We’ve specialized and fractured priorities into a million microcosmic shards which quantify good in weights of gold rather than empirical social benefits.
Education has failed us in the critical thinking department, like you said _most people reward rhetoric and rhythm over logic and content._ This is the point that Postman makes I think when he says that we are amusing/entertaining ourselves to death. Real content denotes factual/verified journalistic/scientific information, entertainment is the trivial junk which helps us to disavow critical issues. I think entertainment is inherent to real content since education is expanding and progressive, but entertainment in itself is not educational in the critical sense. The problem is in degrees clearly... I don’t want to live in a world with no entertainment, but the priorities (especially in the corporate marketing/ID politics landscape) is showing a depressing trend toward inanity and tribalism. What’s overwhelmingly cool in pop culture today is vapid entertainment trivialities like how much money a new CardiB song made or how many viewers PewDiePie has on CZcams, not necessarily deeper reflective aspirations about meaning or direction in life.
Postmodernity has oriented us toward money/sex and amusement for great profits, it has reconceived meaning as “fun” on our way to the grave. Hopefully more humility and solidarity with those who suffer can rise up from the smog of fleeting distractions and help to reshape the terrain of what’s considered good/cool. I think we’re lost in fantasy though, probably going to take a mega-catastrophe to shake us out of our business as usual state of mind.
@JimboParadox There is a pernicious effect of digital media, but we're talking about issues here so that's obviously good. Data is being abused by industry to pull out the stitches of tradition in order to usher us into their brand identity (via neuromarketing, lobbying, spiritual appropriation). We need educators to counter this type of utilitarian calculus and introduce students to the tension of morality rather than manufacture narrow "experts" for deployment in corporate machines of growth.
Instead of business warping institutions into producing "tools" for management styles, institutions should be creating "people" with an autonomous awareness of duty to the civic good-the difference is in the locus of morality. Arguments against the paternalistic overreach of the state here are morally inferior when considering the suffering of those individuals crushed beneath the cold supply chains of "free" market liberty.
Hopefully we can shake off the madness of entertainment culture and media polarization and have some more substantial debates about current issues (refugees, globalization, inequity, precarity, corporate colonization, social malaise) to bring some relief to the emptiness of the modern discourse. A sign of hope for sure is that we can have such discussions through the web at all.
Dario Romagnoli totally agree
I got rid of my TV long ago never to return to that mundane pastime of mental oppression. Internet at least allows you to debate and to watch others debate important topics. I have learned more from watching youtube videos than I ever learned at university (says something ab our universities doesn't it?) As long as you choose wisely you can learn alot about a wide variety of subjects and you can do it from the comfort of your own home. I have learned 3 languages in 5 years
This misses the point of Postman’s critique. He’s not says that there are no productive uses for electronic media; rather that electronic media is inherently an entertainment medium that retrains the brain in such a way that we can’t separate entertainment from education. In this way we become subordinated to it and in the process compromise our capacity for reflection, critical thought and immersive experience. We can no longer think outside the box, as it were, or see past the screen. This is the real danger.
its at a level of discourse not common in modern times. The entire viewership of youtube will likely not understand that Neil Postman was fighting to prevent the technopoly from destroying the soul.
Very true
Ya, sacred ideas have been slain by the individualistic irreverence of celebrity culture.. “YOLO. Imma do me, etc.”
The evangelical reactionaries haven’t help their cause either. Nothing better to push people away from piety than a bunch of acidic bible thumpers screaming about idolatry in an age where the social injunction has become “enjoy every amusement, recreate yourself anew, indulge before your death.”
The interviewer suggested there might be some hypocrisy in the idea of a TV interview about TV's pernicious influence, but saw no such hypocrisy in his bias cloaked in tough neutral analysis. Then says at the end 'We hope you'll tune in again next week..' He knows very well that he's done his best in this interview to make sure they will turn on their sets every day.. indeed, that they always will.
Just consider how fast our culture has declined since the time of this video. He was a prophetic voice.
Actually, I've started reading books more thanks to the internet.
He mentioned the average shot length on a TV show was 3.5 seconds (1985). Today's average shot length is 2.5 seconds.
Long form podcasting is surely one of the greatest counter reactions to this trend... one of the only counters I suppose :(
That is still only one person's view though; or that of guests. It lacks the depth of books and serves the internet echo chamber/prejudice.
I remember when I used to watch television. 84% crap but kept coming back for the 3% gold, and the news/weather. No more of that passivity. I wouldn't wish such an existence for anybody
Better without :)
Just like the world: Mostly crap. And 3% gold.
Incredible the current state of society was predicted 35 years ago, this man would be completely correct to assure we are amusing ourselves to death
The music in this is great. Really atmospheric and creepy. A lot of 60s & 70s tv shows used this style of music. I love it. TV music today is bland and instantly forgettable.
i feel that the 60's and 70's music is bland and instantly forgettable, personally
Joanna d'Arc interesting and cutting view.
Donald Trump is the perfect example of the evolutionary decline of public discourse Postman heralded. Here is what Postman feared would happen to Austria if it was penetrated by commercial television:
"The effect on political life will be devastating. There will be less emphasis on issues, substance, and ideology, and an increase in the importance of image and style. Politicians will have greater concern for moment-to-moment shifts in public opinion, less concern for long-range policies. Unless the use of television for political campaigns is strictly prohibited, elections may be decided by which party spends more on television and media consultants....The line between political life and entertainment will blur, and movie and television stars may be taken seriously as political candidates..." ~ Neil Postman
If you watched the debate last night this statement is even more understated. There was little actual discussion on political ideology and lack of specifics all the way around. Just she'll games on who was more corrupt and and had the better image.
And when he doesn't come through on those policies as Bush didn't what will you do?
John Graves It's wrestling!
Arnold Schwarzenegger being a governor for the state of California; Dwayne J. being look as a president; even people joking about television stars, movie stars, video game stars being president. What a world. He was correct all along
Its much bigger than Trump. Both the GOP and Dems have asked The Rock to run for example. Neil couldn't imagine how fucking hard he hit the nail on the head
Just discovered Neil. I was just a baby when these talks came out. I'm hoping to find a lot more material with this guy; he's extremely intelligent.
Very true! CZcams does contain pearls of wisdom like this one.
Richard Heffner's show was terribly thought provoking. Sadly he passed away in the recent past. Hopefully his grandson, Alexander Heffner will be able to fill some very large shoes left behind by his grandfather.
The intro music to this show remind me of Japanese Haiku poetry.
Its a really interesting discourse in the days of youtube, especially when the most popular channels are mainly focussed around what he calls "talking heads".
A lot of youtube original content (ie that is not just posting or mimicking content from other sources) is talking heads. However, it gravitates towards a certain kind of talking heads.
The internet in general, and youtube specifically is a very different medium that broadcast tv. One of the things you notice with talking heads on youtube is that they tend to be loud obnoxious catchy click-bait that encourages things like drama and comment flaming. Of course it's not all bad, but the most popular stuff tends to be lowest common denominator, very entertainment focused, very attention-grabbing, very non-intellectual, very flashy and emotional and animated.
And a huge amount of popular youtube content that is not talking heads tends to be even more puerile adolescent emotion-driven non-intellectual scatter-brained drama novelty shock vulgarity silliness craziness than even traditional broadcast TV.
iamtheone whoiamlightt, well observed and on point with Neil Postmen and his founded department's research findings since 1970, Media Ecology. Hit the internet and watch old talking TV heads and news broadcast through the years. Buckley, Cronkite, Dan Rather, Dick Cavett, etc. just to name a few for contrast with today (e.g., The View, Jon Stewart
Dr. Postman was a great educator, as prescient a voice as this country has produced about the unintended effects of technology. 'Amusing Ourselves to Death' and its follow-up, 'Conscientious Objections' (though both written before the digital revolution) stand today as prophecies we are now (sadly) fulfilling.
I just finished this book and I am left with many thought provoking questions. As someone who grew up in an age where I was required to watch "The Voyage of the Mimi" in school, this book speaks volumes to me. I must not forget what I have learned here. I may reread this book in the future to reacquaint myself with this knowledge to make sure it is not lost. This knowledge is something of great importance.
Neil Postman is correct when it comes to television, but he did not foresee the coming of the internet.
czcams.com/video/KbAPtGYiRvg/video.html
Excellent point, all of which begs the question of whether "democracy" is even fully compatible with humans, since inevitably "lowest-common denominator" views and tastes must occur among the majority.
I notice both Postman and the interviewer never entertain the idea that the public response to 'American TV' style could be a neurological habit, like our reflex attraction to salt, fat and sugar that drives the fast-food industry, by annealing the format to what reflexively attracts eye-balls (so as to serve advertising) TV only exposed this foible, as innocently as Macdonalds. Which now begs the question: if this is the product of 'popular choice' what does this say about 'democracy'?
Oh, god, that 1970's music always creeps me out. The 1970's -- that time when the Tribe took over Western culture and began flexing their rat whiskers -- were a fashion disaster in every way.
Worst music ever. Poet Maya Angelou seemed to follow this particular "musical" interlude. The ending music (the outro) is also terrible. It forever altered the way I viewed her. How could she participate in a program with such awful music?
Haha, the "Tribe". Did they push the DOW over 6,000? Invade Vietnam? Perhaps they shoved us off the gold standard? Who is "the Tribe"? Case in point, aren't these two talking about how TV is altering the world? Who's behind that, this "Tribe"? Archie Bunker part of the Tribe? Perhaps Welcome Back, Kotter? Saturday night Fever? Taxi???
That piece is actually from the 1950s...
Actually late 50's.
The "Tribe" took over fully after they won the second world war.
Postman, sadly, nails it!
Very interesting how relevant this has stayed throughout the years. I had never interacted with Neil Postman's work before and it's quite fascinating. I love how he touches briefly on the computer. What a state we are in now haha!
Coming to you live from 2020. I was struck by their discourse on political debate and news media. I want the audio overlaid on the past 4 years.
50 Shades of Grey is still #1 at Amazon! Who says Americans no longer read literature? What?, fem-smut is not literature? Get out!
Explains the creation of Vine Videos .
I miss the times when it was just Vine videos
“Picture papers” reminded me that my favorite popular magazine also went “picture” years ago. National Geographic knows that the pictures keep it in publication, and, to be fair, a good picture can tell a story. Yet in-depth writing and reporting on complex issues with varying viewpoints are the best way to learn about the world. Don’t ask me about the National Geographic Channel either. I’ve never watched it.
Hate when interviewers interrupt and the interviewee never gets back to answering or completing their thoughts.
On the whole though I don't see the internet as being a force to swing things back at all. People come to this video because they were looking for intellectual depth, those who didn't will simply become bored and leave. I think the internet is likely to be a non-factor in regards to our capacity to sustain intelligent thought.
I honest to God we're going here. It's fucking scary and frustrating.
Thank you so very much for posting this and reminded us what a prescient, important writer and teacher Postman was.
If you read books like "I Can See Far" and "Television: Prelude to Chaos", you will see tv the right side of the brain assembling the signal and it all going right to the feelings side of the brain. There may be resistance, but I think people will start thinking differently than they used to thanks to these lords of illusion. Families that kicked out their tv's have become happier and better adjusted. Smartphone users are having worse info. recall and social skills than before. I tried to get away but it pulls me back in!
That's basically what I was trying to get at. The internet isn't filled with proprietary content like TV is, it's designed so that popular sites are catering to what the masses want. If the majority of people have been conditioned by TV culture for so long they'll just bring it to the internet and use it as another means to entertain themselves.
The Open Mind was a great program; great music; today the show should be called The Absent Mind-American students with minds turned to bubble gum.
some people are just before their time
Neil is the real deal
Neil Postmans' head would explode by all the amount of talking big heads at youtube-land, especially Pewtiepie. LOL
God forbid he ever visits tumblr. LMAO!!!
The number of newspapers in Stockholm 2016 you ask? Dare I say 2.
His book is entertaining enough but he's foolish to think that people haven't used reading as a trifle for thousands of years. Dante meets the first occupants in hell and finds that they perused a book of romance to flame the fans of their lust. Although I do agree that electronic media has made the world more insane, it was insane enough when it had recourse only to books.
did you actually read his book? admittedly, i just finished a second reading, but he mentions repeatedly that reading "as a trifle" (as you refer to it), is mostly fine. entertainment for entertainments sake. he says the same of television that is strictly meant to entertain. those things are not necessarily the issue. however, the issue becomes more alarming when you realize that this desire to entertain creeps into what would otherwise be considered serious or rigorous material (that is, deserving of rigorous study/attention). those serious matters could be politics, education, world news/issues, etc. furthermore, besides having a comparable deluge of trivia coming at us at all times, we also happen to think that what we're gleaning from these mediums/resources is incredibly important--when often it is not.
Watching television is passive, reading a book is more engaging
Everything is said. But to be really understood, the book is an essence to breath regulary in our times...
Took me a while to place it but Postman sounds so much like Ken Sander its uncanny.
In the age of Trump who could ever deny that Postman's claims with respect to this book ring true!
Mimes on the Radio...
Genius Idea...!!!
I am a Neal Postman fan. This interview with Heffner goes a long way towards explaining why!
Surprisingly in Latinamerica we can´t get this book...
...Roger Waters has a telling tale of this book in musical form but should be listened to in its entirety for maximum effect....Amused to Death.
Peace!
"A Conspiracy of Silence Speaks "Louder Than Words."
Dr. Winston O' Boogie
a source I often cite on this topic: Edward Bernays "Propaganda" circa 1920 proposes how society might stabilize if the population was given only the /illusion/ of choice, so each gets their own soda, their own car, their own fashion, their own anything unimportant -- we placate the public's need for "self determination" leaving the real job of running society to appointed corporate boards better equipped for the job. Frightening as that sounds, perhaps it is a viable approach? Are we the proof?
Still relevant.
Hamilton Morris brought me here.
i cant recall hamilton bringing this up, off the top of my head. can you tell me where (or in what) he mentions this?
Important point!
Western cultures fixation to get results maybe part of the "picturehunger" or need for fast clips, moving changing images. In order to get the feeling that "something is happening". The act necessary in getting results, the thinking, reflexion, consideration has been treated and considered as something unnecessary but it has started to shift. It seems to gain more respect.
In Sweden we still have "free channels" (financed by everyone with a computor, written in law) which means tv with no commercial and not owned by an economic interest.
In one of the channels you can watch the work and talks in the Swedish parliament and other "talking heads shows". www.svtplay.se/kanaler/svt2.
Marica Ohlsson as if the Sweden is not a "western culture" and other nations do not have such channels you speak (e.g., USA's C-Span)?
Alex Jones Of course, Sweden is part of western culture! Thankyou for the tip about C-Span. Still, as far as I could figure out from the information on their website, swedish "TV" differs from "C-Span".
I wonder how come Swedish "TV" differs from my example of "C-Span" and likely any other government channels outside of your borders?
Excellent discussion here, I think. And I agree on a societal level.....however, the internet differ from all the broadcast media, because it is entirely based on choice. You choose your own media diet and curriculum everytime you see the white space of Google.
On an individual level, you an make it a really good thing in your life.
Guy looks like Giger. Great interview so far. Thanks, Roger Waters!
My Personal CZcams Study Notes 2:25
Hey, was that flute music at the start of every episode of this show? Does anyone know the name of it?
He knew of the internet.
It's what I'm here for XD
Hamilton Morris brought me here
Fast moving, quick edited images. CZcams is TV on steroids and coke.
And hello Mr. Bay, destroyer of attention spans and logic.
This was more pbs oriented.
"[China's] Gang of Four is as nothing compared to our Gang of Three" (NBC, CBS, ABC) lols
Beyond prescient
Proposals Relating to the Education of Youth in Pensilvania
. Philadelphia, 1749
Modern Political Oratory being chiefly performed by the Pen and Press, its Advantages over the Ancient in some Respects are to be shown; as that its Effects are more extensive, more lasting, &c.
Hi,
Please read Neil postman's book ...TECHNOPOLY
if he watched the TED conference in his later years he probably could realise that thinking and performing arts have become a challenge that's been overcome or at least thinking is active now
Read his books; you missed the ship.
Naauuuuuuuughtyyyyy
Oh the irony lol
+Arturo Vallejo Jr They should have cast him as the lead in the film adaptation.
13:29
What the eff is on his eye lid
Skin
5:00 average shot then was 3.5 secs. Now I guarantee you it's shorter. Maybe 2 secs or less
Beginning of this is hilarious. Old Neil looks like fool im brilliant not witty😅😅😅😅
yall where the fuck does he talk about the peek a boo world i have to present tomorrow and i need a video help me right now thanks im out here stressin ok thanks peace
Isabella Faiazza that’s what I’m sayinggg, like this dudes ducking voice is annoying asf sounds like my annoying 78 year old neighbour
The Men Who Stare at Goats - "We need to be all that we can be."
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anyone from jre??
TRUMP 2017