Five tips for responding to Torah-keeping family and friends
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
- The most common question I am asked is "How should I respond to my Torah-keeping friends, or family, or spouse?" Is there an effective, biblical way to respond to them? Whichever strain of Torahism you're dealing with-whether it's Hebrew Roots, Torah-keepers, Messianic Christianity, etc.-here are five helpful tips.
00:00 Open - Who to respond to a loved one who wants to keep Torah
00:36 Introduction
03:19 Understanding the issue
04:25 Why would Christians want to keep Torah?
06:00 Two distinct questions
07:20 I: Maintain perspective
11:12 II: Value the relationship
12:50 III: Know your stuff
14:51 IV: When to engage
17:30 V: It's not up to us
Subtítulos disponibles en español.
En nuestro primer video de preguntas y respuestas, abordamos la pregunta más común que recibimos: ¿Cómo debo responder a mis amigos, familiares o cónyuges que guardan la Torá? ¿Existe una forma bíblica y efectiva de responderles? Cualquiera que sea la rama del toraísmo con la que estés lidiando, ya sean raíces hebreas, observadores de la Torá, cristianismo mesiánico, etc., aquí hay cinco consejos útiles.
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I really needed this!! I have recently come out of the HRM in which is was Torah observant for 8 years so I have some anger against them that needs to be turned to love and grace. Thank you for this teaching ❤
Hello Rob, I am currently reading your blue book on Torahism.
My path in Christ began when the Covid takeover hit the globe. I do not attend church and so congregation for me comes from online ministries and Bible study has been led by those who lean towards Torahism. David Carrico is the principle one who although he rejects the Hebrew Roots movement, he promotes Sabbath keeping, the feasts and the food laws. Therefore I have been schooled this way for the last couple of years and began adopting these practices into my life, but found them difficult and not sitting right with me and so I finally got around to looking more closely at mainstream theology instead of simply dismissing it, as I believed what I had been taught to be more biblically sound. So thanks for your work, which is very accessible and essential at this time. I just want the truth of the message Christ and the Father intended and so what I don't understand is how so many who claim to be led by the Holy spirit come to such different conclusions? Why is there so much confusion? I don't believe for a second that the Holy Ghost is conveying different interpretations, so what spirit are people tapping into?
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
~ 1 Timothy4 : 1
Wow! There is someone on this Earth that has wrestled with these scriptures. I thought I was the only one.
You're not the only one. I felt like I was the only one for a long time also. I also felt like there must be other people out there dealing with these issues but could never find any.
The thing that hit me the most that caused me to step back and let God take care of them was hearing so much about the flesh and nothing about The Holy Spirit.
Same!
I appreciate your approach and emphasis on Christian love and peace. We know where one another stands. More conversations at this tone will only benefit the body.
There were many in my life as I asked questions 7 years ago who were quick to call me a heretic. They were and continue to be slow to listen and quick to speak.
I’m very encouraged by your approach that seems just as intent to listen as to speak. Much love, brother Rob
Sooooo good! What a blessing this ministry is to me!
Thank you for this methodology of discussing theological differences in a loving way. Praise the Lord.
This is so loving and wise. Thank you Rob!!
Another excellent teaching, brother Rob! Thank you for all your time and effort that you put into doing these videos for us. This video has definitely made me examine my thoughts and actions - and I will be changing some of my tactics in my conversations with my loved ones and acquaintances. God bless you ♥️
Thank you, Marcy!
Blessings, Rob
Another thoughtful and masterfully produced video. Thank you, Rob! 👍
Excellent approach from either side of the discussion...thanx.
Shalom
Thank you....your teachings have been so helpful to me....especially with dealing with friends and family.
Thank you, Ellen!
Blessings,
Rob
Despite me disagreeing with some of the things you say I love your approach and it is effective
Thanks, indo! I appreciate that. Blessings, Rob
Hermanito Ish here.... As always A.W.E.S.O.M.E..... Thanks so much for the advices. My friend pastor Chris is teaching this HRM. When I write truth about how deadly this HRM can be "is like fishing. He comes out nibble, then he hides again. I wrote "HRM "like every vices" needs to be fed, and its favorite food is truth! You cant afford to rid truth. Truth and truth alone set us all free NOT the law. Weird if you ask me. Again always in. love as you taught me man. Tnks soooo much for all your teachings. Keep it up. Keep feeding us truth to help our love ones. Bless you and your mishpacha...
Gracias! Did you know that in Hebrew, אִיש (ish) means "man"? So I can tell you that you are ha-ish, "the man"! ~Rob
Thanks, RL! ✌🏼
Thanks, just what I needed to hear!!
Great advice
Good stuff, sir.
Very helpful
I have a very short exhortation for 1. those in the HRM, and 2. those contemplating joining the HRM ..." Any scheme that would have the possibility to 1. cause me to fall from grace, and 2. cause a curse from God to come upon me , will never be embraced by me, and it should not be embraced by you either". When the one you are dialoging with asks " What do you mean " fall from grace " and " curse from God" , you get to go into detail about the warnings in the Scriptures.
Toraism practices the fallacy of what's called Circular Reasoning ; start with the conclusion, and work to the end of what was started with at the beginning; the conclusion in Toraism being " The New testament Church is required to keep the Torah ".
I’m so grateful the Lord led me to your channel.
Your delivery is loving and kind.
One of my siblings is sold out to the Torah movement.
One of the most disturbing things he believes is that only Torah followers will go in the 1st rapture. He basically told me that I will be left behind.
How would you respond to that?
P.S. Your vests are off the charts!
Thank you, Child of God! There are a couple ways you might respond to your sibling, depending on what your goal is. One way would be to "agree to disagree" and change the subject. This is sometimes all that's left to us when it comes to Torah-observant friends and family who are not willing (or capable) of having a respectful disagreement. Or you could respectfully challenge their teaching by asking them to demonstrate where it is taught in Scripture. And as they explain it to you, you can continue to challenge their statements with additional thoughtful questions. (ex. "How did you come to that conclusion?" Or "Do you think that conflicts with...XYZ?") Often times, the Torah-keeping person will find themselves backed into a corner by their own statements, since their theology does not hold true to Scripture. But be prepared from them to get angry and end the conversation rather than realize their error and change their mind. It can take quite a while for someone to come to terms with the flaws in Hebrew Roots theology, especially if they've placed a stake in the ground by zealously fighting others about it.
Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Thank you Rob. Great advice. May God richly bless you for spreading the truth and helping all of us. 🙏🏻💞
Thank you for this video. Helpful stuff. (FYI That opening quotation--great as it is--is not from Augustine. I have not been able to track down the source, but Augustine didn't say it.)
Thanks! Yeah, I couldn't track down the source either. So I just said the quote "is typically credited to Augustine." It is wise council, whoever wrote it! ~Rob
Shabbat Shalom, Happy Sabbath Family , Hallel U YAH, Glory to the King YAHUSHUA Hamashiyach, Praise YAHUWAH Elohim, Glory be Yahuwah Elohim Most High.
And to you, sir!
I like your ides of dialoging with those in the HRM. I would add that it would be Biblical , when dealing with the actual leaders of this movement, to deal with them the same way Paul dealt with the ancient Judaizers in the Book of Galatians; for the the same errors , and the same dangers of the errors exist in the HRM as existed in the Judaizers movement. I, as a Bible Apologist, reserve that option should it ever be necessary. I'm sure you have contemplated this option as well, since you are an apologist.
Do you mean something like, "O foolish Torah-keepers! Who has bewitched you?" (Gal 3:1). Sure, that option is on the table. :-)
Rob
The problem with Augustine's quote is that we don't classify "essentials" and "non-essentials" the same way as hardcore torah-ists. Sadly, the relationship with my neighbor has been abusive, but because they are not family, I can easily walk away. I can't imagine those with family members in this... very troubling.
I would love to talk to you more about the this,
I have just found your channel, thank you so much for this Q and A and your videos. I have a family member I live with who has pressured me for years to not go to the Christian church because they use the name Jesus. It should be Yahusha according to him with no other pronunciation allowed. I believe it is similar to the Sacred Name Movement. Do you have any information on this subject, it is hard to deal with on my own. Thank you
Isn't it dangerous to start following the old laws because isn't it written somewhere if you follow one you have to follow all?
Rob if you could, please do a video on your thoughts of the New Perspective on Paul.. which claims something along the lines that we have misinterpreted Paul for millenia and what he's actually trying to express is that Faith just allows for forgiveness and redemption and thus gives us entry into the new covenantal agreement with God, but after that point we must have works to maintain our place in this covenantal agreement.
Its probably more complex than that but NT Wright kind of explains it like that... although he has slight variations in his take on the new perspective than his colleagues have.
Torah observers quote NT Wright or his colleagues a lot. They use it to say that all our protestant kinds of interpretations of Paul's epistles are fatally flawed and not historically accurate within the context of 1st century Jewish thought..
@MP Debate...NT Wright believes in covenant nomism or covenant moralism. This is also found in the Roman Catholic Church......Norman Shepherd and the Federal Vision :Doug Wilson up in Moscow, Idaho......John Piper's "Final Justification." Dr. R. Scott Clark's Heidleblog article "In By Grace, Stay In By Faithfulness?"
You are correct that the HRM/Torah Observant movement is " get in by grace, stay in by works."
This was Martin Luther's critique of the medieval consensus that we are justified because we are sanctified. This he called the theology of glory...rather than the theology of the cross. Acceptance on the basis of performance initially makes sense to us because we were originally wired to present ourselves on the basis of performance, on the basis of our doing. The implication of " the day you eat thereof you shall surely die" and the very existence of the tree of life is that there is life beyond the garden. We were created " good," and we were able to meet the test God set but mysteriously we chose sin and death over obedience and life.
The great error of Pelagius , much of the medieval church, Rome , and all other forms of nomism have made is the failure to distinguish our ability BEFORE and AFTER the fall.
One consequence of obliterating the distinction between the covenants of work and grace is that the covenant of grace becomes a covenant of works. So, even for those who say they are " all about " grace the works principle comes back but instead of Christ fulfilling it for us ( which He did as the second Adam) , we end up fulfilling it for ourselves and thus the covenant of grace is no more a promise of free acceptance with God but a covenant that really says, " you have been given an opportunity : don't blow it " That's a deadly message to sin-corrupted people."
Zach Bauer ( Apologia Studios Overview Of The Hebrew Roots Movement Part 3) blasted the Apologia Cultish guy for saying Christians have assurance of salvation through Christ.
Zach: As long as a person has breath on this earth no one can say they have salvation. This is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church ( and everyone who holds to a false gospel) says.
Hi, MP. I've not studied the NPP enough yet to have a strong understanding of it. But I will certainly address it once I can pin down what it is saying. Best, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots Wonderful, ill be waiting for that. Take your time. Thanks for all your videos and studying Rob! 😄
@@carmensiekierke3579 Do you hold to this view yourself? I'm not well studied on it yet but I do want to look into it because it seems to be something thats being taken very seriously in new testament scholarship...
@@mpdebate6239 If you are asking if I agree with Dr. R. Scott Clark's Heidelblog article...yes.
Dr. Clark has been a professor at Westminster Seminary, CA. for over 20 years and is an ordained minister in the URC ( United Reformed Church in North America)
N.T. Wright and his "New Perspective of Paul".....isn't anything new.
Thanks for addressing this...It'll be cool if reasoning could happen, but even after addressing them they're not trying to hear them...The thing that's rough is that they can't back the scriptures especially the ones in red...The thing that gets me is when i read from Ecclesiastes 7:8 KJV during visiting my family members while they had "study", (not Bible study that i'm used to having)...After addressing Christian in 1 Peter 4:16 KJV, my eldest sister said, "it should've been believer instead", not "i didn't think about that" which would've been cool with me...It's like talking to the Saducees.
I agree, Eddie. Thanks for watching! Blessings, Rob
Hi Rob, how would we respond to the HRM favourite catch line of “what is sin”? Followed by the scripture “sin is transgression of the law” henceforth they believe they are justifying their doctrine.
Hi Dream Way. If we define sin as breaking the Law of Moses, then Adam never sinned in the Garden. That definition of sin does not work because sin was in the world long before the law of Moses was given.
““Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned- for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given.” (Rom 5:12-13a)
So 1 John 3:4, which says, ““Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness” isn’t talking about the law of Moses, but more generally about being disobedient to God.
Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots to this some would say “Adam knew the Law, Abraham knew the Law!” Etc etc.
@@listening4hisvoice Yeah, I've heard people make that claim. But it is not taught in Scripture.
RLS
@@TheBiblicalRoots Also, take Jonah for example. Torah doesn't tell everyone to go preach to Nineveh, but it was sin for Jonah to refuse God's specific instruction. Sin goes far beyond the law of Moses. How do they limit sin to just that?
Shalom brother. I’m really enjoying your teachings. They are clear and very practical. Regarding the reluctance to celebrate Christmas and Easter, the issue is not that it’s man made… as you said, Chanukah is man made and we celebrate it. The issue is the pagan roots of Christmas and Easter ( is this true??)…and the scripture that says that we are not to worship the Lord the way that the pagans worshipped their gods ( Deut. 12:4). Any insight on this would be helpful. Thank you for your ministry. It’s very edifying.🙏🏽
I'll start. My initial gut response is that Christians don't follow those laws in the old testament, so bringing it up doesn't connect to issues after Jesus time here.
Now if following it makes some Christians uncomfortable, then by all means don't celebrate it with them. Jesus followed man-made holidays that are not required by mosaic law, so we should not feel guilty following Christmas.
@@danielodor3822 listen to what your saying brother it’s absolute rubbish. The holidays are not spoke of in the Bible and that’s because they aren’t Christian
Here is my tidbit. Christians do not hold the beliefs on Christmas and Easter as the world does. I do celebrate both and not once do I teach my children of Easter bunnies or Santa. We understand why we celebrate both holidays ( Jesus birth and resurrection) and it's in no way the way pagens celebrate it. Also another thing that the world celebrates is the rainbow ... It's a celebration of sin for them but for my family it's a celebration of Gods goodness and love and promises
Saturnalia is on December 17 & winter solstice is never any later than December 23. The dates do not coincide. It is a matter of fact that Jesus was born & has a "birth day" even if we don't know for certain which day it is. It has been speculated that Jesus was conceived on March 25, so 9 months later would be December 25. The decision to celebrate/honor Jesus' birth on that day may have been initiated by man, but that of itself, like Hanukkah, does not make it pagan. In fact, pagans who DO celebrate Saturnalia, DO NOT celebrate Christmas (unless they have a bit of mockery planned). I have heard pagans accuse Christians of "stealing THEIR holiday," but then they go on to celebrate THEIR holiday in ways Christians would never even for a moment consider - which makes you wonder who started all this brouhaha anyway, since it's not unheard of for pagans to create "controversies" out of whole cloth. Be wise as serpents, innocent as doves & unswayed by foolish controversies.
@@firewhenready1970 YOU were not spoken of in the bible... so does that make you not Christian?
What are essentials? Who determines them?
Indeed. That's a question that has been debated for millennia.
Rob
Why I left Christianity after 17yrs of being the church, there not Preaching the whole Truth and I love Yahushua Messiah with my heart, and I haven't stop studying the Bible over 20 yes since I got born again.
Hi Rob, is full immersion baptism now, still required?
Hey, Wayne! In the debate between "sprinkling" and "dunking," I believe the latter is more appropriate. But I do not personally believe it should be considered "required." Even in the debate between infant and believer baptism, I think we should leave room for honest believers to disagree since it is important, but not essential.
Shalom,
Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots thanks Rob. I am old but still teething on understanding not Grace that saved me but the freedom of obedience. Baptism wasn't a commandment as such. I have only ever felt that Christlike baptism being believer full immersion was the only correct practice. So are you saying we no longer need to be baptised? If not, what about partaking of the sacraments?
I have watched every one of your CZcams vlogs and feel happy and safe with your teaching. I hunger and thirst for more truth. I praise Yahweh for your ministry through Yeshua our saviour.
I want to please Yeshua with my life and honour what He wants of me. Not to earn anything as I fully understand my Salvation is from His sacrifice by grace through faith.
Blessings
Rob, you can read the entire chapter, but explain Romans 8:7,8.
What's so difficult is that Jesus & every writer of the scripture kept Torah. Even Paul was a rabbi that kept Torah & taught Torah obedience. Whenever I try to keep people away from "Torahism", I remind em that tradition is more important than scripture!!
Jesus and Paul actually didn't keep and teach torah. For example, when Jesus was criticized for healing on the Sabbath, do you think he repented? I don't think so. Torah laws were given to reconcile man to God, but imperfectly. Jesus reconciled man to God perfectly, so there was no more need for an imperfect law. Paul taught that the law was not required because of Jesus.
Timothy 1 where he talks about doctrines of demons, and teachings about abstaining from certain foods. Then he goes on to talk about the law being used for good certain situations and people IF IT IS USED LAWFULLY in those circumstances. But this is what the Holy Spirit has led me to see.
Good point, Jana! In 1 Tim 1:8, Paul emphasizes that the legitimate use of the law is ethical, setting a standard for moral behavior. While the law is good when used to correct the lawless (see 2 Tim 3:16; Rom 7:12, 16), it is not a means of salvation, or source of myths and endless genealogies, as some teachers of the law suggest (1 Tim 1:4, see Rom 7:13-25).
Shalom,
Rob
1 Timothy 4 also says in its original Greek that no creature that God has made should be rejected of being eaten if it is received in Thanksgiving and and consecrated by the word of God and prayer... That would suggest that the attitude in dietary laws has changed or the laws themselves..
“Pursue peace with all, and pursue apartness without which no one shall see the Master.” Heb.12:14
Without the pursuit of being set apart by the Word of God and by Gods definition of set apartness recorded in the OT we cannot see the Master (Lord)
In context that 1Tim4 he’s referring to the creatures that were created from the beginning as food. Unlike pig which was never considered as food.
The words or meat here is Broma and it’s defined as what God allows His people to eat according to Genesis 7:2, Lev.11, Deut.14, Acts.10
3......and commanding to abstain from meats, (broma)
which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (That which has already be permitted)
4 For every creature of God is good, (that God says is food)
and nothing to be refused,
if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (The Word of God tells you what sets something apart to be eaten. The only word they had was the OT)
““For look, יהוה comes with fire and with His chariots, like a whirlwind, to render His displeasure with burning, and His rebuke with flames of fire.
“For by fire and by His sword יהוה shall judge all flesh, and the slain of יהוה shall be many - those who set themselves apart and cleanse themselves at the gardens after ‘one’ in the midst,
eating flesh of pigs and the abomination and the mouse, are snatched away, together,” declares יהוה.
“And I, because of their works and their imaginations, am coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My esteem.”
Isaiah 66:15-18
@@ForgedinTruth wrong Genesis 9 2-3 the Targums of Genesis 9 2-3 refute your interpretation of pigs are not food “they just aren’t food for literal Israelites Lev 11 1-2”
Your use of Isaiah 66 shows you never read the chapter or
the chapter before it context as it was Israelites participating in a pagan sacrificial ritual “those that sanctify and purify themselves in the garden following the leader in the midst”
Isaiah 65
2I spread out my hands all the day
to a >>>rebellious people,
@@JGez83
You’re actually right about something!
It is only for the Israelites! God only has one people that are His and they are called Israel!
“So when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Master, would You at this time restore the reign to Yisra’ĕl?””
Acts 1:6
Even they knew that those natural and grafted in will reign with Him as Israelites!
Does Titus 3:9-11 have any application here?
I've had to ask that too...
@@MrsNuttyBar1
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt... But that seems to be what it always boils down to. Endless quibbling about the law. Days and meats, rather than biblical principles being lived out. The Hebrew Roots follower in my family even denies the deity of Christ! Says one is saved through faith alone-but that this salvation is maintained through keeping the Torah. It's just endless confusion and arguing about law. And nothing you say seems to matter. Which makes me really feel for his wife...
@@jessebryant9233 You just described my family situation to a T as well. It's heartbreaking. What bothers me the most is their view of Christ... its beyond offensive for me when they say that all your life, you've been praying to a Greek god because I use the name Jesus. Then I keep reminding myself that because of their emotional connection to what they're doing, they are blinded to the truth and like you I want to extend grace. However, knowing that this is a heresy, at what point am I guilty of being a partaker of the heresy? I recently came across 2 John and I realize that he was addressing hospitality and false traveling preachers but I also believe there are some principles we can glean from it as well. In our situation, they have invited people into their home to teach them, they take to Facebook, Instagram and TikTok to answer questions and spread their beliefs, not to mention the divisive, untrue and disrespectful things they've said about our family and especially our parents. I've tried to share the truth with them the best that I know how and right now I'm at the point of rejecting them per Titus 3. I'm sure you understand that I don't mean being hateful, even though sadly it will be twisted to that but I'm at peace with it and I pray that the Holy Spirit gives guidance in each circumstance. Psalm 1:1-2 says, Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. I'll pray for you and your family and I'd appreciate your prayers for us as well.
@@MrsNuttyBar1
And the HR's would latch onto that last bit! He meditates on what? THE LAW!! And to them, moral law, civil law, ceremonial law, there is no difference... but then they exempt themselves from most of the laws! (Why no animal sacrifices? I mean, if law is law and God's law never changes...) EXHAUSTING! Then they fire off accusations like "you're teaching lawlessness", while showing little or no grace to those who are where they once were, and too often, looking down their noses at women, and claiming that for centuries the scriptures have been being twisted-and they have figured it all out. Worse yet, my family member says that women are not morally responsible for their actions so long as their actions are an act of submission to their husbands-and the women are not equal with men because they were made FOR man. It's just-insanity all over the place! (But I only think that because I'm blind and don't really want the truth. If I just sincerely ask God to reveal the truth to me-then I will embrace what they do. Like no cult has ever made that claim before.) Prayers? For sure!
There is a problem with certain people within the Torah community whom tend towards extremism, thereby outwardly expressing their view without meekness and humility. I’ve also seen that coming from the other side as well, using pejorative words like Judaizer, etc. I feel that the love between fellow believers (whether they identify as Nazarene Israel or Catholics and Protestants) is a much greater witness to other, by far! Yah bless you all!
Agreed. Too many extremists on both sides make us all look weird to the outside world who may be searching. A good question to ask then is, "Are they really Christian"?
Christians are warned in Matthew 7:15-23 that you will know falseness by the person's "fruits". And many of those people will say, "Lord, Lord", but Jesus will say "Depart from Me. I know you not".
I am not sure why it is an issue that someone is a "Torah-keeper." Who cares if a fellow Christian keeps the Sabbath, doesn't eat pork, etc? But, seriously, the letter from Russel has more to say about him than his son's family. His son and his wife have decided what is best for their family and their walk with God. So let your adult son be, and you do you.
I can say as someone who was raised in the movement my entire life and is recently coming out of it, there’s some issues with it in my opinion. It’s typically not as simple as keeping the sabbath and not eating pork, there’s a LOT more commands than just that. Also lots of arguing and division within the community over certain laws and interpretations… it’s VERY easy to get caught up in that and meticulously keeping laws to lose sight of Jesus. Just my personal experience, but I’m never going to condemn someone for a desire to follow the law! I would just suggest they be cautious.
@@wildbouquet7941 Thank you for sharing your experiences. Have a blessed weekend, and peace be with you.
@@joe4369 thank you, same to you!☺️
The issue is their mentality and treatment towards nontorah keepers and also their position borders on being works based doctrine.
Yes a lot claim that keeping the Torah isn't a salvational issue but yet if they were to keep their view consistent with what scripture says, then Matthew 7:21-23 and 1 John 3:4 would imply that nontorah observers are lawless and going to hell.... so it is a salvational issue from their perspective if they are going to keep their view consistent...
@@mpdebate6239 Hello, MP Debate! Treating others with differing viewpoints poorly isn't exclusive to Torah-keepers. Unfortunately, all Christian "religions" have followers that do this. We should all be unified in our faith in Jesus and not divided by our differences in outward acts of worship. Peace and blessings to you.
Always Go to the words of yeshua before Paul. If Paul seems to be contradicting yeshua it’s because you don’t have the correct interpretation. We should still be celebrating feasts and abstaining from unclean foods. If we will be doing it in the 1,000 year reign it makes no sense to not be doing it already.
Hi, Cody. Your hermeneutic is a little concerning. If we accept the entire NT as the inspired Word of God, designating arbitrary hierarchies based on the source of a passage can lead often lead to trouble. But let's set that aside for a moment. Where is Paul contradicting Yeshua on the matter of celebrating feasts?
~Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots mainstream Christianity does. Also hermanutjcs is man made logic. Wisdom will be given to the meek and the wise men will be brought down. Let me ask you this who told anyone to go write a book and start a religion? Not God. Disciples were told to go spread the word. That’s it. Isreal had faulty logic every 500 years yet man goes 2000 years without hearing from God divinely and think we have it figured out.
@@codyalexander3290 So you don't believe Scripture is "breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (2 Tim 3:16-17)?
@@TheBiblicalRoots to believe that verse applies to the New Testament would mean to believe God told Paul to write books. Not letters. I believe it’s used for salvation. However I believe we are living in the days of Jeremiah 14 : 16-21
How do you respond to Christians friends and family. Study the Scriptures, the whole Bible is meant to read comparing the spiritual with the spiritual, cross Referencing old with the new. Dan 7v25 says, times and laws would be changed. The Roman Catholic Church change the 7th Day Sabbath to Sunday with No Authority from the Almighty. 2 Thessalonians the man of Lawlessness, whom our Messiah will destroy with the breath of His mouth. There's a lot of Lawlessness teaching in churches. O' but where not under the law?
"Study the Scriptures" - Love it, Karl! I couldn't agree more about that.
Shalom,
Rob
Can you show me in scriptures in which Christian's should observe Christmas and Easter? And Yes, I can argue on behalf scriptures where there is nothing wrong with observing the Feast of Dedication, aside from Messiah observing himself.
No, I cannot show that to you. Because just like the Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah) and Purim, Christmas and Easter are man-made holidays not given by God.
Blessings,
Rob
@@TheBiblicalRootsif you read the of Kings when King Solomon dedicated the temple, God approved of the dedication, and also put His name on the temple, so yes although is not mandated by YeHoVaH, He certainly approved it. As far as Purim goes, if you read the chapter 9, a decree was set by The Jews, and Esther and Mordecai to celebrate two days in remembrance of what took place, so with in mind, God allow it to be mention so that we can remember. Do you celebrate Easter if you do, why? And what is Easter to you?
@@luiscajigas5567 I feel sorry for anyone who can't do anything in life without the bible telling them its OK to do it. The bible never mentions whether a person can drive a car or open a 401k or walk to the mailbox... so how in the world do you manage your life? There is so much more freedom in Christ!
@heididecker707 my walk of faith in life is dictated by what God's word tells tells me, not what theologians tell me what i should accept.God never commanded us to listen nor accept what theologians come up with,. We are lightened by his spirit, not by assumption being made up each time you assemble.
@@luiscajigas5567 I did not bring theologians into the conversation so I'm not sure what you are responding to. I'm also not sure how you ever made it to CZcams since the bible never told you to possess electronics.
I really apreciate ur channel solberg i still refer tw hebrew roots cuase there are times that they catch things we dont and ultimately they arent sinning in practice of old testement but expecting it for salvation
Is dumb.
That said
I also aprieciate you admit the church has left behind things.
One thing i can see that was moved was polygny.
Martin luther even said he couldnt biblically argue it.
Looking at the sheer metric ton of evidence it was done and not only not looked down on but god often endoursed it.
I.e. our western definition of adultery is not in any way shap our form the biblicalndeffinition of adultery. Nay far from.
And as near as ive seen new testement doesnt overstep here.
Its laid out in leviticus.
Then theres lust
Our modern understanding is simply sexual desire.
But lust is covetness. Pual defines it in romans. In kjv.
I.e. mathew the sermon on the mount is shown to be expanding the commandments the 10 upon are hearts.
Not just the doing but the thinking of
I.e. hate is murder in heart.
So when we see lust is covet and adultery is a woman who breaks wedlock. And also the one who comits it with is commiting adultery.
A man who has sex with one he isnt wed to is a whore monger a fornicator of a different sort.
Sex is always to be in marriage
Now many cant actualy point to a verse saying polygnous men go to hell but they will say church deacons cant.
... dont they realise that means moses
Abraham
Men who wrote scripture and the forbears of isreal couldnt preach to us by our own rules in the pulpit.
This logic. Does not track for me. I realy wish men that care for the text would eliminate this blindspot.😅
Sola scriptura
Yeah, Sin is Breaking Torah (God's law). Rom 6v1 Do we keep Sinning that Grace may abound. Yah Forbid. We all will Stand before God, how do you know your Right. Are we wrong or you sure your Right? 2 Tim 2v15 , STUDY to approve yourself unto Elohim, a Labourer that is not to be ashamed, Rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Sin cannot be defined as a transgression of the Law of Moses because that would mean that Adam and Eve never sinned.
Rob
Please tell me the difference between the Jewish messiah and the Christian messiah.
There is no monolithic view of the messiah in Judaism. However, there are some basic mechanisms of Torah and Mysticism to consider.
I’ll start with the basics from Torah. Messiah is derived from the Hebrew word Mashiach. It was a commandment from God to anoint Levitical priests and High priests with a particular oil. Kings were not included at this time because having a king was never a commandment. There were other reasons a person would use oil on their body at the time but we are focusing on the religious aspect.
Later on (after my. Sinai and God’s instructions) the court of elders decided to include Kings of Israel and prophets to Israel into this practice. So that’s what a mashiach is. According to Gods law it’s only for priests.There are no other usages of the term messiah in the Torah law.
Later the elders of Israel (many of whom were priests) decided to include kings and prophets. This was a decision of the court system for various reasons you can research.
As History rolls on and Israel begins to plummet in its observance of Gods law the Prophets would warn them to turn back from their wicked ways which were mimicking the pagan nations of the time. By the time Israel was in Babylon and under tremendous persecution they began to hope for a miracle to rescue them. It is from this that the destitute state Israel began to imagine a heroic messiah that would defeat their oppressors and rescue them. We see this all over the books of the prophets. As Gnosticism crept in and Mysticism grew , a “new” idea was born. A Superman type savior who would rule over Israel like King David but better!
It is important to remember that God never commanded a king to be ruler over Israel. It was an idea of the people who begged to have one just like all the pagan nations had. God did endorse this majority ruling but it was not in the Law.
Today many mystical type Jews still believe in this through faith, as do Christian’s who were born out of this mystical time of history. It’s clear that Jesus thought himself to be this Superman and Paul too. It’s not surprising from a historical perspective because both came from the orthodox Pharasitical branch of Judaism.
Short and sweet. God never intended for a messiah king to rule Israel. The people begged and got what they wanted. Then folklore, legends, mythology and kabbalistic thinking ran a muck. We are left trying to make sense of it all.
Shalom!
@@tactup23 The Mashiach
The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.
It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach. What Will the Mashiach Do?
Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). Isaiah 2:1-5
1 The word that Isaiah, son of Amoz, prophesied concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall be at the end of the days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be firmly established at the top of the mountains, and it shall be raised above the hills, and all the nations shall stream to it.
3 And many peoples shall go, and they shall say, "Come, let us go up to the Lord's mount, to the house of the God of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths," for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4And he shall judge between the nations and reprove many peoples, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift the sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.
5 "O house of Jacob, come and let us go in the light of the Lord."
The problem with some they call it a renewed covenant. In Jeremiah 31:31 it says a different, not renewed.
Before Jesus came he renewed it several times but they wouldn't adhere to they kept on worshipping other gods.
Jesus made Torah obsolete by fulfilling it. Actually Jesus said the cross is draws men to him, not the torah, Paul is the one the Torah is the who leads to Christ.
True believers who wanders into extreme Torahism, eventually believing that it is a salvation issue end up in a place of possibly losing their own salvation. That's why it boggles my mind that apologists could be proponents of "eternal security" when there are peoples souls and eternal destinies at stake.
Thank you, Theuns! I have seen a few people who have started out thinking keeping Torah was just a matter of obedience, but later came to believe it was required to be saved. Scary stuff.
Shalom,
Rob
Eternal Security is true whether they believe it or not. It is a true belief that remains apart from whether they want to accept it or not.
@@John3.36 I don't believe it's true. We need to stay/abide in Christ.
@@TheunsVisser Then it is up to you to maintain your salvation not Christ.
@@John3.36 Are you saying we don't have to abide in Christ? The Apostles warned BELIEVERS to not go back to their old ways because they would risk losing their place in the Kingdom.
Jesus to Yeshuva or yehoshua is also a part of hebrew roots movement
I wonder if Hebrew roots people are saved?
We are.. Faith and salvation is in Messiah alone, sanctification is after salvation
I’m going to say no on being saved. Most Messianic’s/Hebrew folks are looking forward to the new temple and the sacrifices resuming. This is a strong indication they don’t believe Christ was the perfect final sacrifice, therefore probably don’t truly believe in Jesus Christ.
Underneath it is also a spiritual warfare issue. I'm married to a woman who is seriously sold out on this oppressive Judaizing spirit. The indoctrination is profound and creates a stronghold in the mind. Scofield, Darby, and the Jesuit roots of Dispensationalism are definitely in the mix. I have done a podcast series on this as it is so all pervasive. The Scofield Zionist commentary was a major Trojan horse into the Body of Christ.
I agree 100%, Nigel. There is very much a spiritual aspect to all of this.
Blessings, Rob
So should Christians ignore the Law??? I doubt
In that day, when God comes to establish his kingdom, this is what will happen. “I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people” no longer the first tablet of stone which Moses broke
@@eyes4truth264 Hi, Paul. I am not saying that Christians are without a law. Just that we are not under the Law of Moses, but the Law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21, Gal 6:2). Blessings, Rob
Is the law of Christ different than the law of Moses and how?
Did He make a new set of laws that are different than what God gave His people?
Or is it the same exact law just expounded on how to do it. Like if you hate someone you’ve already committed murder.... that is in the commandments of God found before Matthew.
“All came to be through Him, and without Him not even one came to be that came to be.” John 1:3
If Jesus was with God when He gave the laws then why would He contradict His father’s laws and proceed to say I and the Father are one.... that’s inconsistent of the scripture.
Rob, your statement even though christians are not required to keep the law of Moses, they are also not prohibited from doing so appears to contradict your statement, the law of God does not change, but the way he expresses them does. Also, to say it's permitted, but not required also appears to contradicts your statement.
1st Corinthians 9:19-23, is not dismissing the Torah, the instructions of God that he establish as law, and for you to say it did not matter to the Apostle Paul whether one keeps the law or not, what was most important to him was sharing the Gospel of Christ, also appears to contradict your statement that the law did not change, but the way he expresses them does.
I understand the importance of the Gospel of Christ, but if it did not matter to the Apostle Paul whether one keeps them or not, then it should not matter to you, so why are you attacking law observers? Now, I do agree with you, that if they are making the law a requirement for salvation then one needs to refute their false teachings and teach according to what God made clear when he first spoke.
In this video you appeared to understand that even though the Torah is not dismissed, it needs to be put in it right perspective so that one can be taught correctly according to God's word.
Your statement "the way he express them does" needs to be discarded.
Hi Sam!
You said, "Rob, your statement even though christians are not required to keep the law of Moses, they are also not prohibited from doing so appears to contradict your statement, the law of God does not change, but the way he expresses them does. Also, to say it's permitted, but not required also appears to contradicts your statement." I don't see the contradiction. Can you explain what you mean?
"why are you attacking law observers?" Can you give me an example of where I have "attacked" a Torah-keeper?
Thanks!
Rob
Rob, I think I was clear. Didn't you say that the law of God did not change, but the way he expressed them does? Didn't you say if christians want to observe the law they can but is not obligated to keep them, which was the way I understood your statement? Now, if the law are expressed another way then why are you making such a statement that permits christians to observe the law of Moses? Now, if they observe the law of Moses they would have to observe it like the Jews observe them, which will go against what you are teaching, that they are expressed another way. Right?
Question, in one paragraph how is the Torah, which God established as law (which you call the law of Moses) expressed in a different way? That is what you're insinuating in your statement?
How are you attacking law observer? It is clear from most of your video that you put out that you are against those who observe the law, and to my recollection you did make a statement that the law were for the Jews, not for the Gentiles, such a statement deprives one from following God's instructions, which he established as law. If they are not for the Gentiles then why are you saying if they want to observe them it's okay, I know you added they are not obligated, but still it appears that you are causing confusion.
You are appearing to be leaning to both sides in your writing.
This is not an opinion, this is a truth, but no one will admit to this truth... the council of nicea knew exactly what they were doing. They wanted nothing to do with the Jews, which is why they did not allow Jews to be part of the council, and they knew that by removing the Sabbath they would separated themselves from the Jews. Being that they wanted nothing to do with the Jews, down the road the concept that the law of God were done away was being taught, engraving true believes with a false teaching, one that went against the Torah that God established as law. They knew how to pull verses out of context to defend their false teaching, education was their camouflage, and today christians believe anyone with an education.
Quoted of the day... I am not impressed with biblical education, I am impressed with biblical truth (by sundownsam)
@@sundownsam3369 Hi, Sam.
The Council of Nicaea did not "remove the Sabbath." Here's a podcast I did on that council: czcams.com/video/wkAN1tqSSrU/video.html
As for your other comments, I will continue to refer you to my video "The Unchanging Law of God" until you have seen it and understand my position. Otherwise, we'll just keep repeating ourselves and that's not fun for anyone!
Blessings,
Rob
Let me correct this so you understand... you are attacking the Torah that God establish as law. By you saying that christian believers are not required to observe them you are literally stating that they are done away with and anyone that observes them are in the wrong. In addition, you went as far as to say that they were for the Jews (didn't you say that?), which means that you want nothing to do with the Torah (God's instructions), what God established as law.
I am not involved in the hebrew roots movements and I do not agree to some of their teachings, but I know some members of the hebrew roots movement, and they do not believe that you need to keep the law to be saved, which you appear to be addressing, to my recollection. So, if you are doing that you are literally attacking them for a false doctrine that you assume they are teaching. I know that some of them speaks in such a way that appears as if they are teaching that you must keep the law to be saved.
I do have problems with some of their teachings, and what bothers me that the law is so big for them that they appear to be forgetting that Yeshua is the end of the law for righteousness. By the way, Yeshua being the end of the law for righteousness does not remove the law of God, but I do understand that sacrificial laws were fulfilled in Yeshua, and I do believe as we walk after the Spirit, the Spirit of God will fulfill the righteousness of the law in us, which christian believers are not realizing this.
Tell me do you keep the laws... thou shall not kill, nor commit adultery, nor lie, nor worship other image? Tell me, is it a sin to go to bed with a sister or to take a brother's wife? Is it a sin and an abomination for a man to lay with another man or for a woman to lay with another woman. I am sure you would say yes to all, with that being said, why then are you saying and teaching that the law were given to the Jews and christians are not required to keep them? Maybe you should go back to the studying the law then say, this is fulfilled, and so is this, but this has to be kept because it is a law of instruction, guiding one to refrain from what is sin.
This is the problem, many are making God into their own image, and they cherry pick what they want as law and what they do not want as law. I do not go around troubling believers, but I have no problem putting on the table what God made clear when he first spoke, and Instead of christian believers weighing what's on the table fairly, they tend to immediately attack, accusing one of heresy.
One last thing, even though one should not remove the Torah, what God established as law, the believers life should be all about walking with Yeshua, and in his righteousness. What makes the hebrew roots movement appear as a sect is that their emphasis appear to be more on the laws then Yeshua, and I have a problem with that, which is why I do not associate myself with them.
Does your website have an email?
@@sundownsam3369 Here’s the thing, Sam. When I teach that Yahweh gave the Law of Moses to the Jewish people alone, I am not “attacking” the law. I am explaining what Scripture says. The Mosaic Laws were given to “the people of Israel” (Ex 19:1, 3), and the “house of Jacob” (Ex 19:3). In Hebrew, the phrase “house of…” is used in the sense of “household.” In other words, the law was given to the _family_ or _relatives_ or _physical descendants_ of Jacob, who was also called Israel. This is the Jewish people.
And Yahweh gave them the Law to distinguish them from the Gentiles (non-Jews), to show that they are special, called by Yahweh: they are His people. He says even though “all the earth is mine” (Ex 19:5), the Jewish people, “shall be my treasured possession *among all peoples* ” (Ex 19:5). The word “holy” means to “set apart for God,” and Yahweh says that if Israel obeys His laws, they will be to Him a “holy nation.”
Part of the Law of Moses included what are referred to as “Holiness Laws.” This includes circumcision, Shabbat, the feasts, the kosher food laws. And when Israel practiced these laws, they were demonstrating that they were “set apart for God.” And when other nations saw them doing so, they knew “those are the people who belong to Yahweh.” Because Yahweh did not command or expect any other nations to be circumcised, observe Shabbat, eat kosher, keep the feasts, etc. We never see God judging other nations for not doing these things. Only Israel.
However, the Law of Moses also includes many moral laws regarding murder, adultery, child sacrifice, sexual practices, greed, deceit, etc. And we _do_ see Yahweh judging other nations for these things! These “moral laws” have not changed under Yeshua and the New Covenant. In fact, they are repeated in the New Testament. The holiness laws, however, are not. They have been fulfilled in Christ. And under the new covenant, the “people of God” are no longer defined by their ethnicity, but rather by faith in Jesus (Gal 3:28-29).
Also, when I teach that God, through Christ, has made the Sinai Covenant obsolete, I am not “attacking” it. I am explaining what Scripture says. “In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away” (Heb 8:13). Or if I were to tell you that Jesus abolished the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, I would not be attacking the law. Rather, I am repeating what Scripture says. “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off [Gentiles] have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by *abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances,* that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.” (Eph2:13-16).
We have to let Scripture be our authority, Sam.
Shalom,
Rob
“Just don’t order the pork-chops” while eating with Messianic/Hebrews LoL
Rob, it is not about burdening the christian believers with the law, it's about letting them know that the Torah, what God established as law were never abolished, and to teach them as they walk after the Spirit, the Spirit of God would fulfill the righteousness of the law in us. Give you an example... you are walking a righteous walk before God in Yeshua, who made you God's righteousness apart from the law, in that walk you are not realizing that the Spirit of God is fulfilling the righteousness of the law in you, you are abstaining from adultery, from being a false witness, from bowing down to other gods, etc. Many of those laws are being fulfilled in your life, and being that the law of God are not a burden, the Sabbath should be held on the specific day that God gave. On the unclean, just like a doctor would tell you to stay away from too much red meat, God is teaching us to stay away from the unclean animals because it is unhealthy. How can God tell his chosen people to not eat unclean meat, but in Yeshua it is okay? According to you there are two sets of law, one for Israel and one for the Gentiles.
Hi, Sam! You asked, "How can God tell his chosen people to not eat unclean meat, but in Yeshua it is okay?" This is because God expresses His unchanging principles in different ways at different times. Not because God changes, and not because His eternal principles change. It's because His people and their circumstances change over time. For example, at one point in history, the People of God were lost in their sins, continually shedding the blood of animals for atonement, and awaiting the promised Messiah. But that all changed when Yeshua arrived.
Here's another example. Long before the kosher food laws were given, God told Noah, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything" (Gen 9:3). Many centuries later at Sinai God gave Israel a long list of animals they were not allowed to eat (Lev 11). Many centuries after that Jesus declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). Did Yahweh change? No! Did His eternal principles change? Of course not! Food in and of itself is not morally bad. The restrictions He gave to Israel were given for a reason and were not intended to last forever. They were given to set Israel aside and guide them in obedience until Christ came.
"So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian" (Gal 3:24-25).
Shalom,
Rob
Why didn't God say he would send his son to die for our sins against God.
@C E Please show me where he says he will send his son to die for our sins, I would really like to know, because I can't find it.
When I compare your argument with that of Torah Keepers, I notice that they are more sincere and consistent. They read the whole bible but you read selected verses expecialy those of Paul.
When you for instance say we can do without the law by Faith, you make Paul's writting in Roman 3:31 a false teaching....
Xtians are not required to keep TORAH but Israel does, strange thing Xtians have a claim of a Jew living in their hearts but look very different from the Original concept, Not everyone is Bene Elohim or Bene Yisrael, and everyone has the option and available resource to reject adoption or been grafted. None obligates anyone to keep anything didn’t we all have the same Scriptures?
Rom 6v1 Do we keep Sinning that (or breaking the Law - Torah 1John 3v4) that Grace may abound. YAH forbid. Yeah don't be Torah Torrists.
Rob, I have to respond to you here because I cannot recall which video to respond to...
As stated, I would respond to (Ephesians 2: 15-17)... Yeshua broke down the partition to make in himself one new man, the body of Christ, which is why there is neither Jews, Greeks, Gentiles, males, nor females in Christ because we are one body, but that has nothing to do with removing the ethinicity of the person. Example: The unity of a husband and wife, one flesh, but there is still a husband and a wife, a male and a female in that marriage. We are reconciled both unto God in one body through the cross. So, having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances has nothing to do with removing the Decalogue, and several other laws.
Let's not forget that God's chosen is Israel, not the Gentiles. When both come to Christ, but are one body, but the Gentiles become part of the commonwealth of Israel, not the other way around. Why? Because Israel is God's chosen. God extended his love for the Gentiles on the cross, in doing so, he pull them away from being lawless and made them part of the commonwealth of Israel who were given the law, which is why you cannot say that you are not of the commonwealth of Israel. Question, do you consider yourself part of the commonwealth of Israel, Yes or no, and if no, why not?
I sent you an email you have not responded.
I agree, Sam. Our unity in Christ does not mean there are no more ethnicities or genders. It means that those things are no longer what distinguishes us as God's people. To be a member of God's family all we need is faith in Christ (Gal 3:28-29). Believers in Jesus are "a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession" (1 Pet 2:9). And yet Paul made the point that the gospel was first for the Jew, and also for the Gentile (Rom 1:16). So a distinction remains between Jews and Gentiles, even though both are allowed in.
So, yes, because of my faith in Jesus, I do consider myself part of the commonwealth of Israel (Gal 6:16), in the sense of God's family, or the People of God. (As opposed to the political nation of Israel). As a Gentile, I am a wild branch that has been grafted into Yahweh's family, adopted as a son.
So regarding the "one new man," consider the words of Paul: "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule-to the Israel of God." (Gal 6:15-16). Paul’s devaluation of circumcision is pretty astonishing, given his Jewish heritage and training in the Law. And the group that Paul refers to as the "Israel of God" is made up of all who follow Christ, both Jews and Gentiles.
Where you and I disagree is on the Law of Moses. Are all Christians under God's Law? Absolutely! Are we under the Mosaic legal commandments given to Israel at Sinai? No.
Blessings,
Rob
Where you and I disagree is on the Law of Moses. Are all Christians under God's Law? Absolutely! Are we under the Mosaic legal commandments given to Israel at Sinai? No.
Rob, the Apostle Paul was not removing circumcision, he was make a clearing up a problem that was taking place, which one can safely say that the circumcision of the flesh had to do with the identification of the covenant he made with Abraham, and the circumcision of the heart refers to having a pure heart, separated unto God. But, I did not mention anything about circumcision, nor is the covenant of circumcision by flesh apply to the Gentiles.
Again, you continue to refer to them as the law of Moses when it is God's law. Now, if you agree that the law of Moses is the law of God, then you are totally going against God's laws, right? So, are they God's law or Moses law?
Another thing, how can one say that the law of God does not apply to Gentiles when some of the old testament law were given to the Gentiles?
I sent you an email through your website, I wanted to send you a pdf on something, haven't heard from you. You email will not be given to anyone and I will not be contacted you through the email, just that I like to send you something.
@@sundownsam3369 Just an FYI, I refer to it as the "Law of Moses" because Scripture refers to it that way (Josh 8:31-32; Judges 4:11; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Chron 23:18, etc.). Moses did not make up that law. He was the man God chose to deliver it to Israel.
I think we are having a terminology communication breakdown. Let’s use the phrase “Law of God” (or “God’s Law”) to refer to the unchanging, universal principles and moral values that God established for mankind from the very beginning. There is only one Law of God, and it is grounded in Yahweh’s very nature. It reflects His Truth, His heart, and the way He does things. God’s Law has been in effect and unchanging since He created human beings.
That said, Scripture reveals that the Law of God has been _expressed_ to us in different ways throughout history. God expressed his unchanging principles differently to Adam than he did to Noah or Abraham or Moses. His _principles_ never changed, but his _expressions_ did. For example, one of God's unchanging principles is that atonement for sin comes through the shedding of blood (Lev 17:11). This was first expressed in the Garden when God made clothing out of animal skins (thus, requiring the shedding of blood) for Adam & Eve (Gen 3:21). It was expressed again when the blood of the Passover lamb saved the nation of Israel from God’s wrath (Exo 12). And later, under the Mosaic Covenant, it was expressed in the ritual animal sacrifices at the temple. And God’s unchanging principle of atonement was later expressed differently under the New Covenant through the “once for all” (Heb 10:10) sacrifice of Christ which saved God’s people from His wrath. So under the New Covenant, Christians still have a sacrifice for atonement, but it does not look anything like it did under the Law of Moses. Rather, it is the eternal sacrifice of Christ (Heb 9:11-12).
The Law of Moses was just one expression of the Law of God. It was holy and righteous and good (Rom 7:12), but it was only given to Israel (the Jews), and it was temporary. We are now under a new expression of God's Law.
BTW it can take me a long time to get to all my emails. Sorry. But feel free to forward me that PDF you mentioned.
Blessings,
Rob
There a generally two type of Hebrew Roots followers. The first is the now angry, former Christian who will never listen until his grudge is dealt with. The second is the gullible or ignorant person who doesn't realize the rituals in the OT, were meant to be a type of Holy Spirit mediation between God and man. Rituals are an UNNATURAL relationship with God. They're good for discipline and corporate worship but Adam never performed rituals because he had a natural relationship with God. Once man fell, a relationship with God required extra-ordinary means to reach God. Now that Christ has fully loved God, He mediates for mankind based on his natural relationship with God. Jesus came to restore the original relationship with God. Mosaic rituals were a "stand-in" relationship. We now have a natural relationship with God based on Jesus' natural relationship with God. Keeping rituals now, can be a sign of denial that Jesus has a natural relationship with God...and therefore, the HR are depending on their means of having a relationship with God rather than depending on Christ's "means". In every other religion, rituals and bodily righteousness are a "means" or "medium" for reaching God. Christian s haven't forsaken a relationship with God, they just do it through the original faith based love and natural means which Christ has restored.
That is a great perspective! Thanks, BrWilson.
Go on teaching against the smallest of those commandments. My version of Jesus love His father and did not make Him a layer….
IF you are defending the Biblical Roots of Christianity then you'd be keeping Torah. Yes I know that there's a few extreme elements in this area but it seems like a lopsided issue. For example you are aware that the 1st century church was Torah observant and strict monotheist, right??
By the way I'm not for or against the Torah observant non Trinitarian people.
You clearly have never read the Didache the Epistle of Barnabas or Ignatius of Antioch
Thanks, Daniel. The first Christians were certainly Torah-observant Jews. Jewish believers in Jesus even to this day maintain many of the Mosaic traditions because they are part of their cultural DNA. Which is great! None of those things is prohibited. But the first-century Church as a whole was primarily made up of Gentiles and made no attempt to be Torah-observant.
Shalom,
Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots that may be true but the book of acts says otherwise. like I said before I am neither for or against the whole thing however I feel you are beating a dead horse.
@@danielturcotte9146 Fair enough! At the risk of further beating a poor, dead horse, the book of Acts teaches that the new Gentile believers in Jesus were _not_ required to keep Torah. (Acts 15:1-29). Blessings, Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots That is not true; Christians today still celebrate Passover, a Biblical Holy Day. In Greece, the Pascal season is called Pascha; in France, it is called Pâques; in Italy, it is Pasqua. Spanish, it is Pascua. They all come from the Hebrew word Pesach which is Hebrew for Passover. From what I can find, only England and the USA use Easter and Germany uses Ostern. The exact day has been changed over time, but Passover is being celebrated. Furthermore, during the first 100 years after Jesus, everyone celebrated Passover on the day that is prescribed in the Torah.
"For they choose to celebrate the Passover with the Jews - that is, they contentiously celebrate the Passover at the same time that the Jews are holding their Festival of Unleavened Bread. And indeed, that this used to be the Church's custom…." (THE PANARION OF EPIPHANIUS OF SALAMIS, TRANSLATED BY FRANK WILLIAMS, VOL 2, P. 421)
The Church's custom, meaning the Gentile Church. Passover sure does fall into the category of "Torah-keeping. Have a blessed day.
Torah keeper who are Christians should covert to Judaism. *Only logical*
I know a couple people who have done just that. But most Torah keepers do not go that far because they do not want to abandon Jesus as their savior and the Messiah. ~Rob
@@TheBiblicalRoots
All Praise, Glory and Honor to the Most High YHWH of Israel the Strong one Our Reedemer and the Creator of All the Universe and the Heavens.