As I read below in another comment... You are meticulous with your explanations. Im paying to have this step done to an engine I'm building and wanted to understand the process and you have described it in such a way as almost any mechanic would understand. I see a couple of those kids could care less to really see what your doing. I would be all around you watching every detail. and questioning what I didn't understand. Well done.... your a very good teacher !
I was confused until the guy asked the question about loosening the cap on the bore that was already to size. I was scratching my head wondering whats the point on measuring all the bores independently as the two outer bores dictate how long one keeps boring then he asked the question about loosening the cap on each more that has reached its target, simply brilliant question at the right time as I was just about to leave the video.
I was taught to never pull the mandrel straight out but to rotate it as its being removed to avoid grooves and to never stop the the motion at the end stops with the mandrel driver turning but to hit the end stop as the mandrel driver winds down to a stop
Good Question! I released the pressure on the stones before I took the mandrel out of the block. There is a small lever on the mandrel that releases pressure. I also place the abrasives at 12 O'clock when I remove the mandrel, so only the metal shoes actually touch the bore during removal. Another teaching moment!!! :)
If you go oversized, you can cut the caps again, but you will still be too wide at the parting line. Back in the day, I saw 1984 2.5L Pontiac blocks with the main saddles and caps knurled and rehoned to size, from GM! I figure they did the repair this way because the Iron Duke gear drive timing did not allow the centerline of the crank to be moved up into the block. I've also witnessed the great crankshaft guru Jerry Paris at Midwest Crankshaft in Harvey, IL. bore a damaged main bearing saddle out followed by dowel pin locating of a metal sleeve, returning the saddle back to standard with no alteration of the centerline. The gamer generation can do that sort of thing...on their phones ; ) Thanks for the excellent video.
I love asking stupid questions so here goes, rather than flipping the block why not design the machine to come from both ends?? Rather than turning a heavy block around?
Personally I don't believe in messing with the main bores unless swapping caps !!!!! IV had it done 2x and they weren't worth a damn after !!!! If they are slightly off it doesn't matter do to the fact that alot if engines under full throttle and load flex up to .015 from corner to corner the oil film is strong enough to not let the crank contact the bearings and a good crank flexes without breaking wich is why forged cranks have more issues with cracking than cast iron or steel . Read David wizards books he knows .
done quite a few, I would however watch the stones at either end of the block, you will notice he comes last the rear main and front main with stones keep in the middle. stones should be even across all bores while honing.
Yes, That is correct. The honing media is also shaped by the bores in the block. That is why I often flip the block end for end and hone from the other direction.
Can you make a video of connecting rod cap and main cap grinding? Do you always grind your rod caps flat, I have seen them ground on each side with a .003" feller gauge to help tighten up the rod diameter 90 degrees to the rod.
Line honing moves the crankshaft centerline up into the block. How much? It depends how much material you cut off the cap parting line. Special timing sets are often available to take up the difference. Cloyes is one manufacturer that offers this type of timing sets.
I've align honed lots of blocks and have yet to run into one with a starter engagement problem afterwards. Not to say it couldn't happen. We always try to minimize the amount of metal we remove from the caps. This keeps the crank closer to the original location.
he doesn't. As far as I can tell this bar is not externally located, but instead is just located by the work piece. I guess he just hopes for the best and measures afterwards. If it's botched, then the customer is told their block "couldn't be used" and is "too far out of spec". Seriously dealing with automotive machine shops makes me want to just make myself some clamping fixtures and do it all on my bridgeport. SMH
Um,, why didnt he twist the hone while he was pulling it out? didnt he make a flat spot by dragging the hone out in one place? (he did comment on how much the hone took out with very few passes, so this is definitely a thing)
I always thought crank mandrels only had abrasives on one side so you could turn it up to the 12 oclock position and pull it out without tension and no damage.
dummy didn't spin it while it was coming out so now it will have one side that is .001-.002 out further on the end. Attention to detail is everything if you are building a high-performance engine.
Yes, evenly is always better, but I always seat the cap in the register with a deadblow hammer before I torque the cap. When you are prepping a block for align-hone, you take the caps on and off multiple, multiple times to get the undersize of the bore about .003 to .004 smaller than the spec.
@@turbodave231i noticed that also, the guy in the video torqued the far side then had to run the near side down before torqing it. I think or atleast hope that most guys watching this for educational purposes do understand the correct method but it would have been nice to have got it right on video.
The "cool guy" sitting in the back is a waste of space in one way I guess you can say he's paying so it's his loss but that's not what teaching is about, it's about interaction, questions, etc. Too bad some other kid who can't afford to be there, but would be hungry to learn couldn't take that clowns place.
As I read below in another comment... You are meticulous with your explanations. Im paying to have this step done to an engine I'm building and wanted to understand the process and you have described it in such a way as almost any mechanic would understand. I see a couple of those kids could care less to really see what your doing. I would be all around you watching every detail. and questioning what I didn't understand. Well done.... your a very good teacher !
I was confused until the guy asked the question about loosening the cap on the bore that was already to size. I was scratching my head wondering whats the point on measuring all the bores independently as the two outer bores dictate how long one keeps boring then he asked the question about loosening the cap on each more that has reached its target, simply brilliant question at the right time as I was just about to leave the video.
I was taught to never pull the mandrel straight out but to rotate it as its being removed to avoid grooves and to never stop the the motion at the end stops with the mandrel driver turning but to hit the end stop as the mandrel driver winds down to a stop
You're very meticulous in your explanations. I there wasn't a single question I have when you started the process, the honing process.
Good Question! I released the pressure on the stones before I took the mandrel out of the block. There is a small lever on the mandrel that releases pressure. I also place the abrasives at 12 O'clock when I remove the mandrel, so only the metal shoes actually touch the bore during removal. Another teaching moment!!! :)
You're on your way to being famous Dave! Great upload. Makes me want to change my career path.
an excellent tutorial, kept my interests and attention the whole way through
Good instructor, thanks for the video
If you go oversized, you can cut the caps again, but you will still be too wide at the parting line. Back in the day, I saw 1984 2.5L Pontiac blocks with the main saddles and caps knurled and rehoned to size, from GM! I figure they did the repair this way because the Iron Duke gear drive timing did not allow the centerline of the crank to be moved up into the block. I've also witnessed the great crankshaft guru Jerry Paris at Midwest Crankshaft in Harvey, IL. bore a damaged main bearing saddle out followed by dowel pin locating of a metal sleeve, returning the saddle back to standard with no alteration of the centerline.
The gamer generation can do that sort of thing...on their phones ; )
Thanks for the excellent video.
too much over honing will result in slightly looser timing components
I love asking stupid questions so here goes, rather than flipping the block why not design the machine to come from both ends?? Rather than turning a heavy block around?
Thanks for the upload, very informative.
The camera you are filming with could use a line bore.
Other than that, good vid.
😆🤣Stumbled across this comment. Needed that this morning! Thank you lol
It makes sense , I wonder if when milling the thickness of the cap the process changes the crank's orientation to the block.
Personally I don't believe in messing with the main bores unless swapping caps !!!!! IV had it done 2x and they weren't worth a damn after !!!! If they are slightly off it doesn't matter do to the fact that alot if engines under full throttle and load flex up to .015 from corner to corner the oil film is strong enough to not let the crank contact the bearings and a good crank flexes without breaking wich is why forged cranks have more issues with cracking than cast iron or steel . Read David wizards books he knows .
you need more views
done quite a few, I would however watch the stones at either end of the block, you will notice he comes last the rear main and front main with stones keep in the middle. stones should be even across all bores while honing.
OLÁ turbodave. 16/08/24 Já se passaram nove anos. Lhe pergunto, já descobristes que sua máquina não é adequada para este serviço? Roberto Udo Krapf
Ok so the honing bar is not externally located? It's just located by the workpiece, am I correct?
Yes, That is correct. The honing media is also shaped by the bores in the block. That is why I often flip the block end for end and hone from the other direction.
Can you make a video of connecting rod cap and main cap grinding? Do you always grind your rod caps flat, I have seen them ground on each side with a .003" feller gauge to help tighten up the rod diameter 90 degrees to the rod.
Absolutely no one in my area does this.
Line honing moves the crankshaft centerline up into the block. How much? It depends how much material you cut off the cap parting line. Special timing sets are often available to take up the difference. Cloyes is one manufacturer that offers this type of timing sets.
Moving the crank shaft up also can screw up starter engagement.
I've align honed lots of blocks and have yet to run into one with a starter engagement problem afterwards. Not to say it couldn't happen. We always try to minimize the amount of metal we remove from the caps. This keeps the crank closer to the original location.
I need to do this to my Pontiac 455 2 bolt main, cast num 485428. it been pre tapped for 4 bolt main. Any know the cost to do this?
I hope you're able to get it converted to a bolt main. More power with the durability.
Let me know if I can pick your brain on a 1970 Skylark 350 engine build. I'm looking for Buick guys in Michigan who can help with advice.
What process did you go thru to align the hone mandrel to the main caps?
Todd Sizemore good question
he doesn't. As far as I can tell this bar is not externally located, but instead is just located by the work piece. I guess he just hopes for the best and measures afterwards. If it's botched, then the customer is told their block "couldn't be used" and is "too far out of spec". Seriously dealing with automotive machine shops makes me want to just make myself some clamping fixtures and do it all on my bridgeport. SMH
That's exactly how I got started
Um,, why didnt he twist the hone while he was pulling it out? didnt he make a flat spot by dragging the hone out in one place? (he did comment on how much the hone took out with very few passes, so this is definitely a thing)
He released the tension on the stones before pulling the hone out.
I always thought crank mandrels only had abrasives on one side so you could turn it up to the 12 oclock position and pull it out without tension and no damage.
dummy didn't spin it while it was coming out so now it will have one side that is .001-.002 out further on the end. Attention to detail is everything if you are building a high-performance engine.
Wrong.. he releases the stone pressure. On this machine, you don’t keep spinning when you remove the mandrel.
When pulling the cap down to torque, do it evenly, not one side down and then the other side down, possible distortion, just saying
Yes, evenly is always better, but I always seat the cap in the register with a deadblow hammer before I torque the cap. When you are prepping a block for align-hone, you take the caps on and off multiple, multiple times to get the undersize of the bore about .003 to .004 smaller than the spec.
@@turbodave231i noticed that also, the guy in the video torqued the far side then had to run the near side down before torqing it. I think or atleast hope that most guys watching this for educational purposes do understand the correct method but it would have been nice to have got it right on video.
If that was a new dart block I would've made you re do it to much inconsistency
your stoking way too
you can feel what the hone is doing by goin faster
No comment
The "cool guy" sitting in the back is a waste of space in one way I guess you can say he's paying so it's his loss but that's not what teaching is about, it's about interaction, questions, etc. Too bad some other kid who can't afford to be there, but would be hungry to learn couldn't take that clowns place.