10:45 wrong, they did in at least 3 languages that we know of, because people spoke 3 distinct langauges that were not related (meaning more langauges were used by the people but were from 3 familie langauges, so they could most likely understand the main branch more or less) ;)
It’s sad to see these ones with Nick still alive, it’s just so cruel that he had to die at only 30! Such a great person who loved learning so much, he should have had much more time for it. I think he would want his great channel to live on though, and we viewers definitely do. I suppose I’ll get used to watching these ones with Nick again, eventually.
Nick Nathaniel Barksdale, 30, went to be with his Lord and Savior, on June 2, 2022. Nick was born in Ada, Oklahoma on June 14, 1991. A funeral service will be held at 10:00 A.M., Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at the Eisenhour Funeral Home Chapel in Blanchard, Oklahoma.4 days ago
This is the 2nd or 3rd time I have watched this episode. It occurred to me that a world war was going on. If archeologists tried to explain 1915 to 1950 the same problems may arise in explaining widespread destruction. Nick has always given me the inspiration to ask better questions. Great history teacher. I know where he is now but hus gift keeps on giving🙂
Amazing presentation and very informative! The legends say that when Heracles died, his sons were ousted from Argos, and for a brief period of time, wandered around the Peloponnese where they learned about and empathized with the suffering of the common people. They then moved to the north of Greece, to lands inhabited by the Dorians, and formed an alliance with them. They then tried a couple of times to invade the Peloponnese with the assistance of the Dorians, to reclaim their home. The first time they succeeded, they captured all the cities but had to leave after a year due to famine. They tried again many times and eventually occupied all of the Peloponnesian kingdoms, with the exception of mountainous Arcadia which was difficult to navigate. I believe that the myth reflects a good deal of the historical reality of the time. A Cyclopean wall built across the Isthmus of Corinth has been found, it was also a time period when the fear of war pushed people to migrate to mountainous regions away from the coast, and the fact that in the myth it is implied that the Heracleidae were close to the common people may have been inspired by a historical reality of class-based conflict. Some linguists have pointed out that the etymology of the word "Dorian" might be related to the Mycenaean version of the word "doulos" meaning "slave" in Greek, so there might be something there. The fact that Arcadian Greek seems to be closer to Mycenaean-era Greek also could be relevant. Another interesting fact is that Herodotus, Diodorus, and Pausanias mention two versions of the story of the Heracleidae capturing the cities of the Peloponnese before having to withdraw due to famine. One places that invasion some 30 years before the story of the Trojan War, while another places it some 20 years after the war, which is quite close to the +- 1180 BCE radiocarbon dating for the destruction of Pylos. However, this is all hypothetical, and there isn't a lot of evidence and data to work with. Just think it is fascinating to ponder. Thank you for the amazing video!
@@Rex-jd5vu thank you dear history friend, I can’t wait to sit in my library and record once more. I miss my slice of heaven. I wish you and yours the best.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Very nice to hear that you are on the mend brother, because you are a good man who is a true educator who covers many controversial subject matters, and allows others who might disagree with you continue to post their opinions, while bringing on many really good educators such as Dr. Kennedy who is one of my "favorites" of all contributors, and tells it like it is and don't hold back...😊
Greek Oral Tradition deserves more attention than peoples pay to. All or Most of Achaean palatial centers burned to the ground that time but Athens survived. Archaeological evidences supports that. In the Greek Oral Tradition there is the story of King Codrus who according to the story he sacrificed himself to save the city against the Dorians and that's how Athens survived. Most likely it was the Dorian revolt (Lower class Greeks of the time) that caused the Mycenaean collapse with the exception of Athens
That makes more sense to me than searching for an environmental cataclysm to explain it. It seems like power could have been maintained by control of the bronze trade (tin is not widely available, so it is possible to have a near monopoly on bronze). Bronze became irrelevant about this time, and might have caused the elites to lose their power.
@@the_mowron enviroment cataclism may trigger events, causing famine and then war. A similar event happened during the early bronze age collapse as well.Gutians destroyed the Akkadian empire and Egyptians nomarchs rebelled against the Pharaoh. It happened after a sort of climate change and major famine as well.
@@the_mowron Indeed, and moreover, bronze was not just a strategic resource, but the whole societal system of the time was based on bronze trading (commerce, diplomacy, high end jobs, etc.).
Nick, I have deep faith in your recovery. God bless all those who have helped you maintain your channel at this time and special blessings to you and your family ❤ 🕊
It's scary how one problem (which we still don't know what exactly it was) can cause a cascading effect upon a complex system and make one part after another collapse. I often wonder how it was for an average person back then. Was there a feeling of impending doom? Or just stories of sacking and war somewhere far away?
Pylos was a Greek city, the kingdom of Nestor,a old and wise hero from the Trojan War (circa 1180 B.C.) According to legends it was one of the richest achaean kingdoms ,only losing to Mycenae in importance. The power and wealth of Pylos was confirmed by archaeology .
Glad to see you commenting here, even if you're doing it from a hospital room. Get well, Nick. I can't wait to see you back in the interview chair again.
There were different invasions.Ramses II,Set II and Ramses III all fought against the same groups. But I think the name "sea peoples" was only used during Ramses III era.
The Bronze age collapse has received attention, but in my mind it is on the level of most don't know. Much has been confused by the "Sea People". I think that the information that can be found on the internet is enough to give a rough picture. 1) When did it take place? Well it started around 1150 bce. and lasted for maybe 3 centuries. The Greek olympic games were stopped during this period and first taken up around 780 bce 2. It was very serious at least for Crete, knowledge of their written language disappeared. This means that the intelligentsia died out Learning from one generation to the next simply wasn't there. Archeological studies around the Greek Islands also show that dwellings that in the beginning were along the coasts of these islands were moved up on the hills and fortified. (Most likely for protection). It is uncertain why the migration seems to have moved east. and it is unknown how much the Bronze age collapse influenced Italy. 3) How wide spread? Well it seems as if "point zero" was around Crete and south Greece. But it certainly hit the Hittites hard also and the Levant, along with Assyrian. Assyria only rose to power with Tiglath-Pileser II 967-935 BC. Assyria most have been in the fringe of the event. The collapse was devastating because most likely due to agricultural failure. Hattutsa didn't suffer from raiding pirates, they must have suffered from raiding hordes on land that had the same problem as the "sea people". Even though there has been written books about this there is still new books to be written and we need them because much of history cannot be understool properly without better knowledge of the BRONZE AGE COLLPASE.
So why could the Peleset not be equated with the warriors from the Kingdom of PYLOS? And why could the Shekelesh not be equated with the warriors from the islands of the CYCLADES. If this were the case, it would narrow down the "Sea Peoples" to that of the Mycenaean Greeks. Therefore the "Sea Peoples" were a confederacy of Greek speaking armies gathered from the Greek speaking world, who first encountered the Egyptians in the reign of Thutmoses III. Taking the events in the Illiad and Posthomericon as basically factual, this warband is the same warband that lay siege to troy, and eventually razed it. Eventually settling in Egypt (or their descendents) from whence Ramses II eventually had to evict them. And why is it not so far fetched to even consider what the Greek myths say to be true? That the Bronze Age collapse (at least in Greece) was the result of the invasion of that area by the Heraclidae, and the DORIANS. Who came down from Thessaly with an invasion force, and simply vanquished the Mycenaeans. The smoking ruins of their palaces, and the abandonment of their writing system (linear B) being the evidence of this. I believe this is basically what happened (or was understood by the Greeks to have happened).
A great collapse, such as the Bronze Age, must surely be a combination of factors. I can't imagine one single event caused it. But, it does show how quickly even the most stable seeming systems are vulnerable.
Drought and famine in the Mediterranean region is a simple thing that could easily explain all of it. Ancient peoples lived much closer to famine at all times, any disruptions could cause widespread hardship, and people would move and just try to take what they could.
Great video! I do have to disagree with Nash that the tholos tombs at Pylos were looted at the time of the palace collapse - they were actually looted about 150 years earlier, before the construction of the present palace, at the end of Late Helladic IIIA (with the exception of Tholos III).
There is also the possibility that the Dorians were raiders that subsequently settled in the lands they plundered much as Vikings did in medieval Europe. And there have been extremely brutal wars of conquest in the historical record, such as that waged by Genghis Khan and his immediate successors (and for that matter, the story of the Israelite conquest of Canaan told in the Book of Joshua). So I would not reject the Heracleid story out of hand(for starters, several historic Greek dynasties claimed descent from them), though it is likely that there was much more going on than the stories tell (but revenge motivates all sorts of things). And we still have to look for reasons behind a sudden upswing in raiding and piracy (such as city-states exhausting themselves in internecine warfare, as described in the Illiad). Assuredly, whole civilizations don't suddenly collapse just because groups of people become particularly effective criminals.
Theo does the I-know-better professorial sarcasm bit very well, but then repeats the safe refrain that the Bronze Age collapse and the "invasion" of the Dorians is ... unknown. I had really hoped to get more input on the situation of Pylos (thank you for the correct pronunciation). Was there there really a gap of 10-15 years between the destruction of Mycenae and that of Pylos, for example?
so Troy is Tyre not Anatolia that is the reality Virgil in the Aeneid gives you a hint about that also that is why Alexander conquered Tyre because it was Troy
While more work needs t9 be done regarding the Urnfield incursion into The Iberian peninsula, such disruption in the major source of Tin,could have easily caused a domino effect by refugees overwhelming the political systems and causing a cascading collapse of societies. Even Egypt was weakened by such political, economic, and warring situation, and they only survived by doing what Egypt always did, employing some and permitting settlement. Which in this case would have been in the still sparsely settled Gaza area of the Levant.
*history has no vantage without a beginning...* and... the beginning is usually purposeful... not haphazard... even a forest fire is purposeful... all natural things respond to some stimulus... the beginning of what we think of today is anatolia... kind of focused on gobekli tepe... because... we have come full circle... we have reached the beginning...
Either this guy has a respiratory cold, or he's trying to speak in a lower octave than his vocal chords are cut out for, and it's making him sound froggy. Either way, he sounds like Noam Chomsky at a quarter of that man's age, and that's too annoying to listen to.
Guy sounds like he’d needs to cut back on the bongs. I couldn’t finish the video 😂 Male vocal fry is more rare but equally awful to listen to. It’s especially bad in California. Awful trend
There was no bronze age collapse. The Mycenaean Age of Greece ended around 780 BCE with the Dorian invasion resulting in many Achaean Greeks founding cities overseas. This was followed by the Archaic Age which began around 750 BCE. The so called Collapse is because Egyptologists have messed up Egyptian history, e.g. the 26th dynasty is just a Greek version of the 19th dynasty. They are one and the same.
the Trojan war or Tyre war was a big event this a world war remember you only know a little bit about it maybe a year but it was 10 years what did these people do for that long
yeah the philistine in the Bible you know what i mean that was the Greek Argives and Achaeans you have also Myrmidons\ so Crete and the Peloponnese had sway over the Mediterranean sea and Egypt when you see that picture of the sea people that is the philistines
agamemnon that the king of men he had the authority over the kings that was the pharoah in Exodus only person that could be Achilles actually killed that guy that is something that i figured out someone came later to take his place but if you kill the pharoah everyone in Egypt at one point is equal that collapsed the age because these events of Tyre were taking place Moses peace be upon him was alive to start the iron age
the cities of the Levant the philistines did not really make them they sort of invaded the people got thrown out and the philistines took up residence there until Israel started coming in the Levant like Jericho i do not think the phillistine made that i think the prior people made that and left and these Argives and Achaeans just walked in there
To try to understand the LBAC and not mentioning the Phoenicians, their strategic relevance and naval importance, or how their cities THRIVED during the collapse itself, is A HUGE WASTE of time. Or to talk about Greek language and not taking into account the influence of the Phoenician alphabet in Greece post LBAC is a huge sign of ignorance.
Obviously, the Dorian invasion, described by ancient authors and confirmed by an Egyptian monument, caused the collapse. Bizarre that the “experts” refuse to accept this.
*ignorance manifest...* this is that without full compression... egyptians looked at things differently... that difference might help you in understanding them... for example... the battle of Kadesh... looks like propaganda... but they won because they won an alliance... the egyptians interest in canaan is interesting to say the least... and i don't think it was only because of their interest in lebaon... which is about where the phoncians are thought to have originated from....
@@kylewilliams8114 ellipsis is the orbit... nearer... and further away... nearer... and farther away... sort of like... this... and... that... i.. and... a... and... division...
@@kylewilliams8114 i... is the beginning.... do you understand why that is?... it is because... you cannot exhale... unless.... you first inhale... it is impossible to do...
@@kylewilliams8114 division created the universe... division fed the masses... division is the first act in thinking... division is the law... segregation... is the vision... *con + scious + ness...* the state... of being... with divisions... orz... the state of being additive...
Sorry, I don’t think this guest is up to the standard of this channel. He doesn’t really have anything to say and what he does say, he doesn’t say it well, either. Why put someone on like him who just says “we don’t know” over and over again? What is his point? Maybe writing papers is a better vehicle for him, it would force him to concentrate and decide what he wants to say and his voice is so very harsh, too, it’s grating to listen to. I think it might be a good idea to do a test video on some contributors.
you need to look into the hekla 3 eruption in iceland around the same time the bronze age collapse begins. i almost 100% believe that when hekla erupted it sent the entire world into a volcanic 20 year winter which made the entire north unstable and unfertile so that caused mass migration south into the only habitable land in europe. The reason why most of mainland europe got completely assimilated and the coastal meditterreanean areas were enslaved was because they were habitable enough for the invaders to live comfortably. Pretty much everyone pushed everyone else southeast towards were agriculture was most fruitful. The sea people/invaders could literally be almost any civilization from the aryan indo europeans, to the baltic peoples, to the celtic islanders and people from the north european plain before doggerland sank to the ancient "atlantic" civilization that was thriving during the ice age. But for a fact we know it continually displaced people southeast and throughout the medittereanan. We need to do a lot more scientific research into places that used to be accessible like the mid atlantic ridge and the northwest european plain.
You are mixing up historical periods and also spreading false theories. 1 - There was no "aryan" indo European civilization in Europe and the Baltic peoples did not have any kind of civilization in bronze age. 2 - In fact, there was a Celtic invasion of Greece, but it only happened much later than the Bronze Age (it happened at the end of the classical period, for example, the attack on Delphi), in addition the Celtic peoples only appeared in the Iron Age. 3 - There was never any invasion of Greece from Northern Europe before the end of the Western Roman Empire (there are genetic studies that prove it - google "Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples"). 4 - The Baltic-Slavic invasion of Greece did indeed took place, but only in the middle ages ("Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples").
@@CPlusPlusOpenGLMan i was implying the people who were living there during the time of the bronze age collapse. there were not the modern groupings of people you are describing. and yes the ancient nomadic aryan people were definetly indo european. not sure if the yamnya coinside but still these areas are whats more important than the actual cultures there. All of those cultures evantually got overrun by majority of indo europeans besides the mediterrenan and some outliers so the actual culture groups are irrelevant
At 13:54 it always amazes me to see paintings of ancient Black European civilization builders with their dark "milk chocolate" skin and braided dark coarse hair being shown to let people know that "YES" ancient Black people were very important in ancient SOUTHERN EUROPA when it came to building many earlier civilizations on that continent, and these truths shall not be denied... Sothern Europa had the first civilizations that were closest to the African continent which makes logical sense since after all, the earliest civilizations were no doubt established in Ta-Seti (Nubia/Egypt), Ethiopia, as well as deeper into the African continental area. Zeus= AETIOP chief title name on the island Greek island of Chios 😊
I think this fresco is meant to portray the “olive” skin color of those typically associated with the Mediterranean and Aegean. We have examples of black Africans in Minoan frescoes for example and you’ll notice that they are distinguished by having a far darker skin tone.
Also it’s fair to note that DNA studies done on the Minoan and Mycenaean remains don’t show an African presence. But yes, black people were definitely around but we also know that Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations were quite distinct and grew up on their own rather than the outdated Egypt / Nubia hypothesis.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 That was a very white dress with some beige and gold/brown circle designs in it on her VERY DARK milk chocolate skin color and braided hairstyle, as she holds a VERY WHITE object design with her black hands 😂 If Black Africans were darker than this Minoan lady, that would just prove to me that Blacks in ancient Europa and Africa both had a wide range of DARK SKIN COLORS that cannot be compared to the color of "tan" 🤣I enjoy your content as I use my intelligence to seek the truth. 🙂
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I agree with you 100% that the Black Minoans DNA might not be the same as Black Africans, but not having the same DNA as Africans does not change their Black race, because there is no real evidence as to how long the very DARK Minoans had been in that European environment which changes human DNA because of adaptation to certain areas.. It must be noted that Black Melanesians and Australian aborigines also have different DNA from Africans, but the Black race remains the same with some physical differences, same as the difference between Southeast Asian Thais/Cambodians and lighter skin Japanese/Koreans who are of the same race, but are quite different in skin color, facial features, and body structure...
@@etruscancivilization plus low class field workers vs high class elites who didn't work outside. And in the Minoan culture, women were represented in art as very very pale while men were portrayed in art with almost terra cotta brown. Not all art movements are about fidelity to reality, and we have to keep that in mind as well.
I think that the contributor here was in need of a side glass of water to keep his throat clear while explaining this topic because he sounded like he was talking through a large electric fan 😂😂
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10:45 wrong, they did in at least 3 languages that we know of, because people spoke 3 distinct langauges that were not related (meaning more langauges were used by the people but were from 3 familie langauges, so they could most likely understand the main branch more or less) ;)
RIP Nick. Your channel taught me an enormous amount of history. You will be greatly missed. :(
Damn he died
It’s sad to see these ones with Nick still alive, it’s just so cruel that he had to die at only 30! Such a great person who loved learning so much, he should have had much more time for it. I think he would want his great channel to live on though, and we viewers definitely do. I suppose I’ll get used to watching these ones with Nick again, eventually.
Nick Nathaniel Barksdale, 30, went to be with his Lord and Savior, on June 2, 2022. Nick was born in Ada, Oklahoma on June 14, 1991. A funeral service will be held at 10:00 A.M., Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at the Eisenhour Funeral Home Chapel in Blanchard, Oklahoma.4 days ago
Is nick recording again. Heart goes out to all
Still in hospital unfortunately (according to the latest Go Fund Me update).
Still in the hospital history friends! This episode was recorded a while back and I’ve only just now got to posting it.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Hey Kids! From me! ❤️ Get Well Very Soon Buddy! 👵👍💐☮️🍻🕊️🌎✌️🇺🇦✌️♥️✌️
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I hope we will see him soon.
@@lakshmipraveen8734 Just heard on another channel that he has passed. RIP.
This is the 2nd or 3rd time I have watched this episode. It occurred to me that a world war was going on. If archeologists tried to explain 1915 to 1950 the same problems may arise in explaining widespread destruction. Nick has always given me the inspiration to ask better questions. Great history teacher. I know where he is now but hus gift keeps on giving🙂
So so so happy to see you looking a lot happier healthier and talking about history again Nick!!!
You do know that Nick died, don’t you?
@@kimberlyperrotis8962 yeah I do - this was commented before he passed. He is missed Rip to mr barksdale.
Thanks to everyone involved in this channel and helping and encouraging Nick along. Love this channel and everyone's efforts.
I hope you're feeling better Nick! Been thinking about you and your family.
Amazing presentation and very informative!
The legends say that when Heracles died, his sons were ousted from Argos, and for a brief period of time, wandered around the Peloponnese where they learned about and empathized with the suffering of the common people. They then moved to the north of Greece, to lands inhabited by the Dorians, and formed an alliance with them. They then tried a couple of times to invade the Peloponnese with the assistance of the Dorians, to reclaim their home. The first time they succeeded, they captured all the cities but had to leave after a year due to famine. They tried again many times and eventually occupied all of the Peloponnesian kingdoms, with the exception of mountainous Arcadia which was difficult to navigate.
I believe that the myth reflects a good deal of the historical reality of the time. A Cyclopean wall built across the Isthmus of Corinth has been found, it was also a time period when the fear of war pushed people to migrate to mountainous regions away from the coast, and the fact that in the myth it is implied that the Heracleidae were close to the common people may have been inspired by a historical reality of class-based conflict. Some linguists have pointed out that the etymology of the word "Dorian" might be related to the Mycenaean version of the word "doulos" meaning "slave" in Greek, so there might be something there. The fact that Arcadian Greek seems to be closer to Mycenaean-era Greek also could be relevant. Another interesting fact is that Herodotus, Diodorus, and Pausanias mention two versions of the story of the Heracleidae capturing the cities of the Peloponnese before having to withdraw due to famine. One places that invasion some 30 years before the story of the Trojan War, while another places it some 20 years after the war, which is quite close to the +- 1180 BCE radiocarbon dating for the destruction of Pylos.
However, this is all hypothetical, and there isn't a lot of evidence and data to work with. Just think it is fascinating to ponder.
Thank you for the amazing video!
That is an interesting narrative, of course we will never know but it makes a sort of sense.
My condolences to Nicks family.
So glad to see your video pop up!!! Thank you Nick 🍃🦋🍃🦋🍃🦋
I´m so glad to see you well! Bronze collapse is always interesting
Thank you! I’m still in the hospital ( this was recorded a while back ) but I’m on the long road of recovery!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I’ll be double the glad when you recover then, I’ll be checking in with your work. Admiration from México 💕
@@Rex-jd5vu thank you dear history friend, I can’t wait to sit in my library and record once more. I miss my slice of heaven. I wish you and yours the best.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Very nice to hear that you are on the mend brother, because you are a good man who is a true educator who covers many controversial subject matters, and allows others who might disagree with you continue to post their opinions, while bringing on many really good educators such as Dr. Kennedy who is one of my "favorites" of all contributors, and tells it like it is and don't hold back...😊
So great to see you recording again!
Greek Oral Tradition deserves more attention than peoples pay to.
All or Most of Achaean palatial centers burned to the ground that time but Athens survived.
Archaeological evidences supports that. In the Greek Oral Tradition there is the story of King Codrus who according to the story he sacrificed himself to save the city against the Dorians and that's how Athens survived.
Most likely it was the Dorian revolt (Lower class Greeks of the time) that caused the Mycenaean collapse with the exception of Athens
That makes more sense to me than searching for an environmental cataclysm to explain it. It seems like power could have been maintained by control of the bronze trade (tin is not widely available, so it is possible to have a near monopoly on bronze). Bronze became irrelevant about this time, and might have caused the elites to lose their power.
@@the_mowron enviroment cataclism may trigger events, causing famine and then war.
A similar event happened during the early bronze age collapse as well.Gutians destroyed the Akkadian empire and Egyptians nomarchs rebelled against the Pharaoh.
It happened after a sort of climate change and major famine as well.
@@the_mowron Indeed, and moreover, bronze was not just a strategic resource, but the whole societal system of the time was based on bronze trading (commerce, diplomacy, high end jobs, etc.).
Wow! I think I just stumbled on the best channel on CZcams! About to go snorkeling through the playlist - subscribed naturally! 👍😍👍
Great episode! Mr. Nash really made great arguments.
So glad to see you again and that you're in good health. Thank you for all that you do!
That was Nick before the ordeal he’s going through. He’s still in the hospital according to his latest Go Fund Me update.
@@mikeappleget482 Get well soon Nick. Sending you prayers and good
healing vibes.💚 Thanks Mike.🙂
Get well soon again Nick! All the best, and nice to see you again.
Glad to see you back online and looking healthy!
Very sad to hear of Nick's passing. May Christ receive him in his everlasting mercy. He will be missed, but his work will be forever appreciated!
Love this channel!
Nick, I have deep faith in your recovery. God bless all those who have helped you maintain your channel at this time and special blessings to you and your family ❤ 🕊
It's scary how one problem (which we still don't know what exactly it was) can cause a cascading effect upon a complex system and make one part after another collapse. I often wonder how it was for an average person back then. Was there a feeling of impending doom? Or just stories of sacking and war somewhere far away?
Who and where was the Kingdom of Pylos? Needs a short introduction in the video or written in the description.
Pylos was a Greek city, the kingdom of Nestor,a old and wise hero from the Trojan War (circa 1180 B.C.)
According to legends it was one of the richest achaean kingdoms ,only losing to Mycenae in importance.
The power and wealth of Pylos was confirmed by archaeology .
Glad you are well
Glad to see you commenting here, even if you're doing it from a hospital room. Get well, Nick. I can't wait to see you back in the interview chair again.
It was Ramses III, not Ramses II, that defeated the Sea Peoples' attack on Egypt.
Ramesses II fought the Sherden as well. Then recruited them into his Royal Guard.
But yeah Early 12th century BC will be Ramesses III and those murals are from his temple.
There were different invasions.Ramses II,Set II and Ramses III all fought against the same groups.
But I think the name "sea peoples" was only used during Ramses III era.
Yes, Ramses III defeated the great coalition of Sea Peoples.
The Bronze age collapse has received attention, but in my mind it is on the level of most don't know. Much has been confused by the "Sea People".
I think that the information that can be found on the internet is enough to give a rough picture.
1) When did it take place? Well it started around 1150 bce. and lasted for maybe 3 centuries. The Greek olympic games were stopped during this period and first taken up around 780 bce
2. It was very serious at least for Crete, knowledge of their written language disappeared. This means that the intelligentsia died out Learning from one generation to the next simply wasn't there. Archeological studies around the Greek Islands also show that dwellings that in the beginning were along the coasts of these islands were moved up on the hills and fortified. (Most likely for protection).
It is uncertain why the migration seems to have moved east. and it is unknown how much the Bronze age collapse influenced Italy.
3) How wide spread? Well it seems as if "point zero" was around Crete and south Greece. But it certainly hit the Hittites hard also and the Levant, along with Assyrian. Assyria only rose to power with Tiglath-Pileser II 967-935 BC. Assyria most have been in the fringe of the event.
The collapse was devastating because most likely due to agricultural failure.
Hattutsa didn't suffer from raiding pirates, they must have suffered from raiding hordes on land that had the same problem as the "sea people".
Even though there has been written books about this there is still new books to be written and we need them because much of history cannot be understool properly without better knowledge of the BRONZE AGE COLLPASE.
*Darn those supply chain issues!
Enough bad things of various types happened too close together. A Perfect Storm.*
So why could the Peleset not be equated with the warriors from the Kingdom of PYLOS? And why could the Shekelesh not be equated with the warriors from the islands of the CYCLADES. If this were the case, it would narrow down the "Sea Peoples" to that of the Mycenaean Greeks. Therefore the "Sea Peoples" were a confederacy of Greek speaking armies gathered from the Greek speaking world, who first encountered the Egyptians in the reign of Thutmoses III. Taking the events in the Illiad and Posthomericon as basically factual, this warband is the same warband that lay siege to troy, and eventually razed it. Eventually settling in Egypt (or their descendents) from whence Ramses II eventually had to evict them.
And why is it not so far fetched to even consider what the Greek myths say to be true? That the Bronze Age collapse (at least in Greece) was the result of the invasion of that area by the Heraclidae, and the DORIANS. Who came down from Thessaly with an invasion force, and simply vanquished the Mycenaeans. The smoking ruins of their palaces, and the abandonment of their writing system (linear B) being the evidence of this.
I believe this is basically what happened (or was understood by the Greeks to have happened).
A great collapse, such as the Bronze Age, must surely be a combination of factors. I can't imagine one single event caused it. But, it does show how quickly even the most stable seeming systems are vulnerable.
Drought and famine in the Mediterranean region is a simple thing that could easily explain all of it. Ancient peoples lived much closer to famine at all times, any disruptions could cause widespread hardship, and people would move and just try to take what they could.
RIP Nick. My heart is sore for your friends and family.
very cool
Correction: Ramses III fought the Sea Peoples, not Ramses II.
God save us from the dread Vocal Fry!
How about the possibility of the nobility speaking a different language to the lower classes, like with the Japanese nobility?
That'd answer a lot.
That’s pretty interesting!
Great video! I do have to disagree with Nash that the tholos tombs at Pylos were looted at the time of the palace collapse - they were actually looted about 150 years earlier, before the construction of the present palace, at the end of Late Helladic IIIA (with the exception of Tholos III).
There is also the possibility that the Dorians were raiders that subsequently settled in the lands they plundered much as Vikings did in medieval Europe. And there have been extremely brutal wars of conquest in the historical record, such as that waged by Genghis Khan and his immediate successors (and for that matter, the story of the Israelite conquest of Canaan told in the Book of Joshua). So I would not reject the Heracleid story out of hand(for starters, several historic Greek dynasties claimed descent from them), though it is likely that there was much more going on than the stories tell (but revenge motivates all sorts of things). And we still have to look for reasons behind a sudden upswing in raiding and piracy (such as city-states exhausting themselves in internecine warfare, as described in the Illiad). Assuredly, whole civilizations don't suddenly collapse just because groups of people become particularly effective criminals.
RIP Nick
Theo does the I-know-better professorial sarcasm bit very well, but then repeats the safe refrain that the Bronze Age collapse and the "invasion" of the Dorians is ... unknown. I had really hoped to get more input on the situation of Pylos (thank you for the correct pronunciation). Was there there really a gap of 10-15 years between the destruction of Mycenae and that of Pylos, for example?
so Troy is Tyre not Anatolia
that is the reality
Virgil in the Aeneid gives you a hint about that
also that is why Alexander conquered Tyre because it was Troy
Theo...
Have you been in the island of sri lanka a long ago?
While more work needs t9 be done regarding the Urnfield incursion into The Iberian peninsula, such disruption in the major source of Tin,could have easily caused a domino effect by refugees overwhelming the political systems and causing a cascading collapse of societies.
Even Egypt was weakened by such political, economic, and warring situation, and they only survived by doing what Egypt always did, employing some and permitting settlement. Which in this case would have been in the still sparsely settled Gaza area of the Levant.
Is Nick back or is this an older recording?
This man is turning into a lizard person 6 and 1/2 minutes into this, listen to that voice
Venetians these are Phoenicians
and Aeneas was among the Phoenicians
Why were the Phoenicians spared the Bronze Age collapse? Does Dr. Hitchcock know?
👍
*history has no vantage without a beginning...* and... the beginning is usually purposeful... not haphazard... even a forest fire is purposeful... all natural things respond to some stimulus... the beginning of what we think of today is anatolia... kind of focused on gobekli tepe... because... we have come full circle... we have reached the beginning...
Τύρος
Tyros
that is the name for Tyre take a look at that word
Τρού\ Troy that is the answer
Either this guy has a respiratory cold, or he's trying to speak in a lower octave than his vocal chords are cut out for, and it's making him sound froggy. Either way, he sounds like Noam Chomsky at a quarter of that man's age, and that's too annoying to listen to.
Guy sounds like he’d needs to cut back on the bongs. I couldn’t finish the video 😂 Male vocal fry is more rare but equally awful to listen to. It’s especially bad in California. Awful trend
Very true, couldnt watch him speak. Too annoying
There was no bronze age collapse. The Mycenaean Age of Greece ended around 780 BCE with the Dorian invasion resulting in many Achaean Greeks founding cities overseas. This was followed by the Archaic Age which began around 750 BCE. The so called Collapse is because Egyptologists have messed up Egyptian history, e.g. the 26th dynasty is just a Greek version of the 19th dynasty. They are one and the same.
the Trojan war or Tyre war was a big event this a world war
remember you only know a little bit about it maybe a year
but it was 10 years what did these people do for that long
yeah the philistine in the Bible you know what i mean that was the Greek Argives and Achaeans
you have also Myrmidons\ so Crete and the Peloponnese had sway over the Mediterranean sea and Egypt
when you see that picture of the sea people that is the philistines
Pyllos in Albanian Language pyll means forest
wb
agamemnon that the king of men he had the authority over the kings
that was the pharoah in Exodus only person that could be Achilles actually killed that guy that is something that i figured out
someone came later to take his place but if you kill the pharoah everyone in Egypt at one point is equal that collapsed the age
because these events of Tyre were taking place Moses peace be upon him was alive to start the iron age
the cities of the Levant the philistines did not really make them
they sort of invaded the people got thrown out and the philistines took up residence there until Israel started coming in the Levant
like Jericho i do not think the phillistine made that i think the prior people made that and left and these Argives and Achaeans just walked in there
To try to understand the LBAC and not mentioning the Phoenicians, their strategic relevance and naval importance, or how their cities THRIVED during the collapse itself, is A HUGE WASTE of time. Or to talk about Greek language and not taking into account the influence of the Phoenician alphabet in Greece post LBAC is a huge sign of ignorance.
Obviously, the Dorian invasion, described by ancient authors and confirmed by an Egyptian monument, caused the collapse. Bizarre that the “experts” refuse to accept this.
The Dorian invasion has never been proven and has even been debunked by the most recent genetic research.
*ignorance manifest...* this is that without full compression... egyptians looked at things differently... that difference might help you in understanding them... for example... the battle of Kadesh... looks like propaganda... but they won because they won an alliance... the egyptians interest in canaan is interesting to say the least... and i don't think it was only because of their interest in lebaon... which is about where the phoncians are thought to have originated from....
... no...stop...with...ellipsis...
@@kylewilliams8114
ellipsis is the orbit... nearer... and further away... nearer... and farther away... sort of like... this... and... that... i.. and... a... and... division...
@@kylewilliams8114
i... is the beginning.... do you understand why that is?... it is because... you cannot exhale... unless.... you first inhale... it is impossible to do...
@@jonerlandson1956 you...have...brain...worms...
@@kylewilliams8114
division created the universe...
division fed the masses...
division is the first act in thinking...
division is the law...
segregation... is the vision...
*con + scious + ness...* the state... of being... with divisions... orz... the state of being additive...
We had the volcan of thera
Greek from athens is dorian and ionian semitic
The Thera eruption happened centuries before the bronze age collapse.
Sorry, I don’t think this guest is up to the standard of this channel. He doesn’t really have anything to say and what he does say, he doesn’t say it well, either. Why put someone on like him who just says “we don’t know” over and over again? What is his point? Maybe writing papers is a better vehicle for him, it would force him to concentrate and decide what he wants to say and his voice is so very harsh, too, it’s grating to listen to. I think it might be a good idea to do a test video on some contributors.
you need to look into the hekla 3 eruption in iceland around the same time the bronze age collapse begins. i almost 100% believe that when hekla erupted it sent the entire world into a volcanic 20 year winter which made the entire north unstable and unfertile so that caused mass migration south into the only habitable land in europe. The reason why most of mainland europe got completely assimilated and the coastal meditterreanean areas were enslaved was because they were habitable enough for the invaders to live comfortably. Pretty much everyone pushed everyone else southeast towards were agriculture was most fruitful. The sea people/invaders could literally be almost any civilization from the aryan indo europeans, to the baltic peoples, to the celtic islanders and people from the north european plain before doggerland sank to the ancient "atlantic" civilization that was thriving during the ice age. But for a fact we know it continually displaced people southeast and throughout the medittereanan. We need to do a lot more scientific research into places that used to be accessible like the mid atlantic ridge and the northwest european plain.
You are mixing up historical periods and also spreading false theories.
1 - There was no "aryan" indo European civilization in Europe and the Baltic peoples did not have any kind of civilization in bronze age.
2 - In fact, there was a Celtic invasion of Greece, but it only happened much later than the Bronze Age (it happened at the end of the classical period, for example, the attack on Delphi), in addition the Celtic peoples only appeared in the Iron Age.
3 - There was never any invasion of Greece from Northern Europe before the end of the Western Roman Empire (there are genetic studies that prove it - google "Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the
Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples").
4 - The Baltic-Slavic invasion of Greece did indeed took place, but only in the middle ages ("Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples").
@@CPlusPlusOpenGLMan i was implying the people who were living there during the time of the bronze age collapse. there were not the modern groupings of people you are describing. and yes the ancient nomadic aryan people were definetly indo european. not sure if the yamnya coinside but still these areas are whats more important than the actual cultures there. All of those cultures evantually got overrun by majority of indo europeans besides the mediterrenan and some outliers so the actual culture groups are irrelevant
Sorry, I didn't enjoy this documentary, no visual production.
At 13:54 it always amazes me to see paintings of ancient Black European civilization builders with their dark "milk chocolate" skin and braided dark coarse hair being shown to let people know that "YES" ancient Black people were very important in ancient SOUTHERN EUROPA when it came to building many earlier civilizations on that continent, and these truths shall not be denied... Sothern Europa had the first civilizations that were closest to the African continent which makes logical sense since after all, the earliest civilizations were no doubt established in Ta-Seti (Nubia/Egypt), Ethiopia, as well as deeper into the African continental area. Zeus= AETIOP chief title name on the island Greek island of Chios 😊
I think this fresco is meant to portray the “olive” skin color of those typically associated with the Mediterranean and Aegean. We have examples of black Africans in Minoan frescoes for example and you’ll notice that they are distinguished by having a far darker skin tone.
Also it’s fair to note that DNA studies done on the Minoan and Mycenaean remains don’t show an African presence.
But yes, black people were definitely around but we also know that Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations were quite distinct and grew up on their own rather than the outdated Egypt / Nubia hypothesis.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 That was a very white dress with some beige and gold/brown circle designs in it on her VERY DARK milk chocolate skin color and braided hairstyle, as she holds a VERY WHITE object design with her black hands 😂 If Black Africans were darker than this Minoan lady, that would just prove to me that Blacks in ancient Europa and Africa both had a wide range of DARK SKIN COLORS that cannot be compared to the color of "tan" 🤣I enjoy your content as I use my intelligence to seek the truth. 🙂
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I agree with you 100% that the Black Minoans DNA might not be the same as Black Africans, but not having the same DNA as Africans does not change their Black race, because there is no real evidence as to how long the very DARK Minoans had been in that European environment which changes human DNA because of adaptation to certain areas.. It must be noted that Black Melanesians and Australian aborigines also have different DNA from Africans, but the Black race remains the same with some physical differences, same as the difference between Southeast Asian Thais/Cambodians and lighter skin Japanese/Koreans who are of the same race, but are quite different in skin color, facial features, and body structure...
@@etruscancivilization plus low class field workers vs high class elites who didn't work outside. And in the Minoan culture, women were represented in art as very very pale while men were portrayed in art with almost terra cotta brown. Not all art movements are about fidelity to reality, and we have to keep that in mind as well.
A lot of excuses and hypotheses to try to discredit what's been written and found in archeology
I think that the contributor here was in need of a side glass of water to keep his throat clear while explaining this topic because he sounded like he was talking through a large electric fan 😂😂