LS X-RAM INTAKE TEST
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- HOLLEY & EDELBROCK X-RAMS TESTED-FULL RESULTS. HOW WELL DO X-RAM INTAKES REALLY WORK? ARE THEY RACE-ONLY, OR DO THEY COOK AS GOOD AS THE LOOK? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I TESTED THE HOLLEY SNIPER X-RAM vs THE STOCK (EARLY) TRUCK INTAKE ON A CATHEDRAL-PORT 6.0L. I ALSO TESTED THE EDELBROCK X-RAM VS THE STOCK LS3 INTAKE ON A CAMMED LS3 CRATE MOTOR? DO THEY WORK?
Who else wants to see Richard dancing to that techno music in his tree house with glow sticks at beginning of the video?
yes
@@richardholdener1727, a THOUSAND TIMES YES!
@@richardholdener1727 yes
Doooo iiit
Lmfao yes!
Twin turbo test next with those intakes?!
thats what I'm talk'n about !
I think Holly gave sloppy mechanics one and that's what he is doing on his truck
@@james10739 I believe those are going to end up on his mustang with his "fancy mechanics" summit internals engine.
Ever since I've seen these come out, I've been waiting to see twin turbos on them!
Can't wait to see.
Oh....and....Big Bang 454....🙏
Big bang 454 - 460 shootout!!!
RyTrapp0 high hp 600+ 460 have serious oiling problems, 454 would blow it straight out of the water.
Patrick Fenis I wasn’t trying to start an argument, but your spot on 😂. Having said that I’ve been around a few 545 460 strokers at the machine shop I used to work at, have to drill the mains and run oil metering plugs, but made some serious n/a torque and hp numbers but for the same amount of time and money one could have 3x the motor starting with a bbc platform.
That's all bullshit[insert_relevant_My_Cousin_Vinny_quote] - anyone that believes such utter nonsense is free to call up the specialists/experts/whatever you prefer that actually know what they're talking about like Paul Kane, Charlie Evans, Lem Evans, Randy at RM Comp, etc., and they'll all have no problem answering any questions/talk your head off about these engines free of charge.
The oiling system is fine below ~1000HP - oiling problems are a "you" problem. This isn't a damn 1950s FE that we're talking about...
I don't understand how you're planning on spending 3x the money on a BBF when all the parts between a BBF and a BBC are basically equivalent. Stock blocks are dirt cheap(I picked up a complete 36,000 mile 460 for $200) - and, as we all know, the 460 is king of cubes, readily available production blocks(not some special tall deck or unique late model version that doesn't have much aftermarket support) being capable of 557" with "safe" 4.440"(.080 over - safe for all blocks; cherry picked sonic checked blocks have went up to .120 safely) bores & 4.500" strokes that don't even require grinding(and you can fit more if you want to push the limits).
You want cheap heads? Well ported factory D0VE heads will support 700+ NA, well ported factory D0OE-R(iron Cobra Jet) heads are 800+ capable, both very common in stock iron head classes. They both have Pro Comp/SpeedMasters available if you're a masochist. Edelbrock heads are ballpark, TFS & AFR heads are ballpark, then there's the more serious racey stuff like A460, C460, & Blue Thunder Thors vs your typical Brodix & R-M heads; ballpark. Then you have Pro Mod stuff with max effort canted wedge & hemi heads, cast & billet, readily available for both engines, all in the same ballpark in price.
Intake manifolds; yup, single & dual plane intakes cost as much as single & dual plane intakes. Cast tunnel rams, Weiland offers their old school TR for both, TFS has a bitchin modern cast tunnel ram(closer to a Holley Hi-Ram style of TR) if you're into that, most all of the head suppliers also offer intakes of course.
Lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, and the rest of the valve train are basically the same, water pumps & oil pumps are equally dirt cheap, timing set, bearings are bearings, oil pans are oil pans, distributors are distributors - I honestly don't know where the hell you're wasting so much money on a BBF. The aftermarket blocks aren't even abnormally expensive, they're right in line with any other cast iron or aluminum blocks(even Ford Racing offers BOTH iron & aluminum blocks), and are as capable as any other iron/aluminum aftermarket blocks.
Sounds to me more like some people don't actually have experience building these engines - or, because all they build is Chebys, the one time they did build one they just threw their(or someone else's...) wallet at it for parts that they just assumed were needed that actually weren't...
Here's a boat anchor...
czcams.com/video/-p20GBfjV3c/video.html
...production block @ 498", cast SCAT crank, FRPP SCJ heads, twin 76s, 2600lbs, 6.85@207 - whatever amount of power you think that is, it's easily over 1500HP(more than likely, you need to add a few hundred more). With a stock block & cast crank.
There's PLENTY of 4WD pullers that can tell you how much of a "bOaT aNchOr" they really are too - there's no shortage of BBFs in these production iron block classes.
I would apologize for the length, but you can't actually describe the various parts in an engine with much fewer words than that.
Eurobeat intensifies
Looking at Holley's website, it looks like their cross ram is available for rect port heads. Would love to see a head to head comparison. But the LS3 manifold is a pretty good piece.
I'm a simple man. I see cross-ram, I click. 😎
Ok....Those cross ram intakes are screaming for twin turbos. Really liked the Holley sniper cross ram looks and to find out it makes more power
across the graph is even better.
@Travis Thompson that is so cool.
Tuning nightmare
We knew about cross rams back in the 1960's. Friends had them on Mopar Stage II & Stage III motors. We had an early Mickey Thompson Pontiac cross ram modified to fit the later 1965 and up heads. We added a balance tube to eliminate the "double torque peak". On the street back in the mid 1970's, these were unbeatable. Won many a street races with these combinations. There is a friend in Hollydale (Paramount) California, with a 500ci. Cadillac motor in a 1951 Cad that runs 10.30 - 10.50 ET at 133 - 136 mph, using a homemade funnel type cross ram. They just plain work...
Alright Richard...you did it again. Awesome review,test and outcome. We appreciate your efforts!!!
Looks like a Lamborghini intake manifold
Street tunnel ram performance without the need for a passenger to help you navigate. Looks like a real winner.
Years ago NRE built an X-Ram intake for twin turbo application and it had twin intercoolers built in.
Beautiful and functional, the coolers were water to air and did amazingly well.
If you haven't seen the video, the LSX put out over 1000 HP.
X-Rams have been around a long time and I am surprised they are not used more often.
Love your comparison and appreciate all the testing you do.
Thanks for sharing.
Tom does good stuff at NRE
With all the craziness going on in the world we have this guy showing who the true bad ass is.
I have a couple of other guys engines I would like to see you test. The Jeep 4.0 six cylinder and an AMC V8, preferably 360 from an old Jeep Grand Wagoneer. I bet they would be interesting
Give the 4.0 L some love. It needs it.
7 Main Gang!
I've been waiting for this video since Holley came out with these intakes
I use Indian head sealer on all my head studs / bolts. I'm just old skool....
Crossrams, good. Corvette Racing has been using crossrams on the C6R and C7R race cars for a long time. Must be a reason for it.
The cross ram is a very pretty (and effective) way to feed an engine. Always wanted to build an engine with one for a "show & go" build. Only issue is the clearance can be tough to fit under many a stock hood.
As always, great information. Do not stop doing what you are - many of us are addicted to the data you provide. In the future, might you be able to take a look at the impacts of quench height on a motor? Perhaps using different gaskets?
Irony is, you get a lot better visibility overall with a crossram intake because you don't have a giant hump sticking out of the middle of the hood.
Damn that Holley manifold is one sexy bit of kit.
Surprised the Holly made this much difference over the truck manifold. This would be an AWSOME street intake. Be nice to see twin turbos on this setup. Great test. Looking forward to your next video.
I need a cross ram with dual torqstorms hmmmm. When are your cams coming out man!
I second the dual torqstorm superchargers with one of these cross ram intakes.
I say twin turbos on one of them X-Ram intakes
You would want to equalize your intake tract if running boost otherwise you could have uneven boost pressure between banks
@@triplestangman You'd basically run the engine as two turbocharged L4 engines. Each bank would have it's own waste gate, blow off valve, and CAC.
triplestangman not necessarily. If both TBs are fed from the same outlet from the inter cooler, then the boost pressure in both plenums would be the same.
Two of the coolest looking intakes available. Both of them are begging to have twin turbos hung in front of them
Funny you ran this video today. I saw a rat-rod on the road today with a LS engine with a cross ram intake manifold on it. The rod was made from a 40's model pannel van that had both sides of the hood removed. It was very cool.
Please please do a comparison with the ls3 version of thr holley sniper intake. Love your content but need apples to apples.
It’s amazing that this is a daily driver intake. Especially the Holley. Interesting.
I wish you could test Nelson Racing Alien style intake and see what's so special about it.🤷🏾♂️
+1 yep get your hands on one richard and see if its as good as they self proclaim it is
Wonder why you wouldn't start TBSS intake seeing how it's a better factory intake.. I bet the difference wouldn't be as much...Cool test I would run one if I had the money ..lol
This was my thought. Love to see tbss vs holley xram
I want to see tunnel ram vs cross ram.
There ability to have better performance across the rev range makes sense as they are used on a lot of high performance Euro sports cars.
I just wanted to complain about the amount of throttle bodies because You told me to. 🤣🤣🤣.
Great video. Thanks Richard. 👍
points
Cross ram certainly worth the money. Solid gains.
Nelson race engines x-ram intake had the snappy throttle response and huge gains all across the board I believe it changed the sound from lion roar to screaming banshee.
Tom does amazing stuff over there at NRE
@Whitey Powers How many of your children did he charge for it? Or was it your organs?
The holly ls3 is available! This needs to be done again! Knock out drag out ls cross ram test! With and without turbos. Just for fun!
111👍's up thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great show 😊
Would like to see the Holley vs Edelbrock cross ram intakes both on the rec port heads. The Holley is about 2/3 the cost and wondering if the LS3 stock intake still out performs the Holley from 5200-6100? Overall very impressed. And your testing is MUCH appreciated. Thanks
X-ram looks cool, works even better, wow! What is the runner length compared to the LS3 intake runner? These would give the option of putting injectors farther from the intake valve for a bit more charge cooling. Great info, as always!
It would be neat if they made intercooled versions like the NRE X ram since there arent alot of air-water intake manifolds that fit under factory hoods.
I was thinking the same thing. Where's Nelson's xram? Surely Tom would let him borrow one.
chazbeaumont65 I dont think he has more than one..
Oh yeah, I'd love to see a twin turbo setup with the cross ram intakes
Interesting the long runner intakes still made peak horsepower at about the same rpm as the shorter runner intake.
That 6.2 really made some killer mid range,
I love my Holley Sniper cross ram !!! It is a Torque Monster on my 403 stroker with rectangular port ls3 heads .... I would love to see how it does against the other brands on a 400+ ci hint. love the channel Richard been a fan for decades..
Next test; We put an X-pipe intake and an X-pipe exhaust on this Crossram Sniper intake equipped LS3.
triple XXX
I like the way you think
Feel like that intake was made just for the people doing a rear engine ls swap. Definitely looks cool though
Wut?
Fancy intro. Love to see your evolution with the videos from a year ago, to today
I started for real last Dec 2019-not even a year yet!
@@richardholdener1727 I still remember when the dyno graphs were taken with a camera, not a screenshot. Later when you were figuring out where to screen cast yourself talking. Men what a nice job, nice to see your transformation in such a small time. BTW yes, we all remember your real roots with the hondas, magazine articles and books. Keep on rocking and evolving!
When you do the Buick 455 would love to see Rhodes lifters versus conventional. Do high bleed lifters really gain a lot of torque?
Richard while it shows gains on the dyno, the cross ram is going to make more power in the real world, because you can now easily run two air filters, whereas your typical manifold can only run one.
Fun to see the intake resonance nodes on the second test. Factory LS3 manifold is tremendous.
That down low torque is really impressive, this might be a really good manifold too have on a daily driver truck with a truck cam, torque for days!
I bet 3D printing an X-ram would really open up some possibilities?
Both look frikkin awesome. I may settle for the Holley once I admit that I'll never be able to afford a blower.
Richard Holdener do a test with after market ignition coils on a mild street ls and a modified higher horse power ls. How does it effect the a/f ratio. We put msd coils on a mustang with supercharger and it leaned the engine out without any adjustments. From mid 11's to mid 12's. Are aftermarket coils worth our money or when do we need to upgrade. Find out for us Richard. You the man and if someone is gonna find it out for us its gotta be you
we use factory LS coils even up to 1600 hp. Coils don't change power unless there is a misfire or the dwell for the coils is incorrect and not adjustable
Surprisingly, your torque curve for the Holley is the same as the one Holley shows on their website. I tend to doubt what manufacturers say their gear can do.
it is probably from my test
@@richardholdener1727 PLAGERISM
Lots of good stuff out there to compliment a wide variety of engines. Unfortunately, packaging is a big issue.
About what I expected, but it's great to see the data.
The only problem with these crossrams, is the price...
To make it fair you should have bought a pvc “Y” from a plumbing store and ran two throttle bodies on the truck intake. Lol
only 2?
🤣👍🏻
But what size PVC would be fair to use....?
I want to see the x-ram with some twin turbos compared to a regular intake with twin turbos.
I'm reminded of your TPI test where you ran a "too big" cam and basically got a power curve that peaked at peak torque and just stayed flat until 6500 because the cam let the engine breathe through the part of the torque band where the long runners impeded airflow until the big ports in the heads let it breathe at the higher RPM and actually got more power at higher RPM with the heavily ported long runner manifolds. I would like to see a big rowdy cam (>300° advertised duration, >.600 lift) and a really big port long runner (>20" plenum to valve) manifold on an LS engine. And just for kicks, put the injectors in the plenum facing the port openings down the ports.
Now that Holley has a square port version of that cross ram, it's time for a re-match!
Those look so cool! I wonder if that Holley cross ram would fit under the hood of my Vette?
Would love to see this test with a twin-turbo setup, with larger throttle bodies on the Holley sniper and Mirror Image turbos
Now the big question. Will it fit in a Fiero?
Two turbos or what if two vortex now that is one super video that I'd myself would have to view on repeat lol
I'd like to see the Holley run on a 5.3, since it made more power everywhere, it's probably a good truck manifold, if you could get it to work with the factory computer somehow.
It could work, I'm pretty sure you have to splice multiple throttle body cables into one so that the computer thinks it's opening just one throttle body but I'm not sure if that would work but that's just my theory
Holley X vs TBSS intake?
I have a ls3 crossram sniper intake if you want to do a comparison with the edelbrock
The holley cross ram would look great with dual torque storms.
Twin turbskies indeed sir! Was thinking that on the original test. Would love to see it!
Right on
Interesting to see the Holley unit without any balance piping between plenums run on a twin turbo setup where there is nothing preventing a bank to bank imbalance.
Pretty much knew how this would turn out. From reading so much about Chrysler cross rams.
TWIN TURBO!!! It.....please
I think that lack of plenum disturbance is helping the intakes make better high end power
I think the Holley does better bc the cast aluminum heat soaks much more than the fab runners being separated.
Twin turbos and a cross ram intake...??? Now that’s a test to see...
It would be interesting to see the results of that cross ram Holley versus a TBSS intake. I don’t think you’re picking up that much over the better factory intake. So for the price and added complexity it’s probably not worth it. For the Edelbrock intake versus the LS3 stocker I absolutely know I wouldn’t pay the money for it on a stock cube application. Maybe it would be more effective on a larger displacement stroker. That’s something you can test next time Richard.
we ran the LS3 vs Edel X ram on a 416 stroker as well
I'd like to see a intake made similar to a header, with really big long pipe, to possibly get benefits of the long runner, with more volume, high flow, it's difficult to say what I'm getting at, but the would be collector being the plenum, each having something like a 90mm throttlebody, on each bank, the plenum being a pipe approx. 5"-6" dia, andup to 8" long, feeding into 2.75"-2.90" tubes leading to the intake runners, shrinking to what ever the inlet runners need, and possibly allowing the injectors being in the top of the runners behind the plenum, possibly in the stock location also, I feel fuel atomization is better from 2smaller injectors, per cylinder, over a single huge single one, per cylinder. krazy and I know it!!!... But it should be interesting, and equal as possible!
Crotch Ram intake?.....Nice
Long runners all the way im just seeking the holley sniper to try on 5.7 ls1
Two turbos, and a microphone. Where it's at!
Ugh, the techno intros make me moist 😁
less air disturbance but still shares air flow to keep velocity up.
Yes 2 superchargers and yes 2 turbos.
Great info!
Holley also makes a Sheet metal fab intake #825071 for a sbc but I have not heard if it's good.
Really wanna see a turbo application with these.
yes, non-standard valve seat angles yield better results on most LS heads. All the usual tricks work as well.
Fancypants valve jobs with narrow seating surfaces and non-traditional angles tend to not be durable/reliable long term. At GM Racing, our head specialist could put a valvejob on a ~510bhp 5.0L LS2 based Daytona Prototype engine that was good for +15hp, but only for a dozen power pulls...
only a dozen pulls?
@@richardholdener1727 Yep, it would start going away really fast - and settle in 10-15bhp lower than whatever his "robust" valvejob was (sadly, I don't know details on either of the valve/seat geometries I'm referrng to, here).
I wonder if the optimal runner length is determined by the cam. What I mean is, are the gains only this good with this cam in this combo? Change the cam and the runner length may be better or worse for HP or torque production. I am pretty sure we can't blanket statement that the cross ram with longer runners is better HP over the entire RPM range for any engine. It was great in this combo, but my combo it may or may not be as good. Heck it might be even better. I guess I will still have to test combo's. That gets expensive, and that is why I am here to learn. It's cheaper if you can make "educated" guesses with proven data.
The Holley Cross Ram is better than the truck intake tested with any cam in this rpm range
Need to do this test again using stock ls3 or ls2 intake throttle body. Borh cross rams and a fast lxs 102
ls3 is rec port, ls2 is cath port, this intake is cath port-they don't interchange except with adapters (not a good idea) and the ls2 intake is not good
@@richardholdener1727 yeah was looking into them more suprised Edelbrock don't make in a Cath version
Boost with the twin throttle bodies would be interesting.
You should do an 8.1 build
I want to put one on my 496ci so badly!!!!!!!!
I think it would be cool to see a test of throttle body sizes from tiny to massive. probably need some kind of custom intake to take advantage of the larger sizes.
Maybe 50mm to 150mm. although who makes such a big throttle body? Lathe, milling machine and some stock and anything is possible!
we have a 125 mm
I got one of those and haven't used it yet!
Love this video and all your videos. I watch some several times. Unrelated, how would a Predator carb A/R look?
DAMN those two manifolds look good!!
'its for towing honey, honest!!!!' 🥴
I’ve been dying to know what this thing could do. I expected a lot of these things to be on tons more cars than what actually happened. Crickets for years.
Richard I watched the video twice, made a bunch of notes and even a graph....but I still think after all the computations I would ditch the hat!
I had Covid hair
Thats exactly what I was thinking turbo for each throttle body how would work and would it be beneficial
Power gains are always a good thing 👍