Solid Wood Vs Veneer | How To Tell The Difference | IKEA's "Fake" Wood
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- How do you tell the difference between solid wood furniture and veneered furniture? In this video I explain how to determine the difference. I also make some "fake" solid wood in the workshop, showing how companies like Ikea and other furniture manufacturers are creating items that appear to be solid wood, but are actually veneered.
0:00 Intro
0:05 Solid Wood Furniture
0:53 Veneered Furniture
2:48 Tricky Example
3:05 Making Fake Solid Wood
5:05 Ikea's Fake Solid Wood
5:29 Solid Wood Advantages & Disadvantages
6:31 Veneered Board Advantages & Disadvantages
7:44 Outro
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#furniture #veneer #ikea
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Once again Keith, you explain everything in plain layman's terms. Thanks for this!
Thank you!
Great video. I liked how you presented the case for veneered wood construction as well as showing the way to create the end grain effect.
I think you've provided a really useful reference for us all here. In particular calling out why manufactured furniture is typically comprised of veneered man-made boards. Modern furniture gets has a reputation that it doesn't deserve. The use of cheaper carcass materials that have been veneered has been around for centuries and of the same reasons as today: efficient use of resources and to make the end-product affordable to the end-user. Indeed it was in the act of veneering furniture that a considerable amount of value was added by the craftsman. There are often other benefits too like reducing the weight - people moved around a lot more in the past with horses rather than transit vans - and that's true today. To illustrate that point, I was at a relative's house for xmas dinner many years ago and they were proudly showing off their new solid oak dining table and chairs. It looked impressive (albeit had a chunky 'goldilocks and the three bears' asthetic) but the chairs were too heavy to move closer to the table when you sat down.
Cheers Karl. Of course, the weight! How did I not mention that 🤦🏻♂️😂 oh well 👍
Thats a very good point Karl
@@theofarmmanager267 I totally agree. Brown furniture prices at auctions are ridiculously low - well worth spending some time at local sales!
Great video as always, Keith! 😀👍
Great video, and I don’t think this topic is covered enough. I am now intrigued by veneers as they can help save some money, allow for the strength of manufactured products, and still give you a beautiful end product.
Great video Keith, well explained and a great resource reference for woodworkers.... Thanks
Another great video, interesting and well made. Thanks
That was very interesting. You presented the information in such a clear manner. Thank you.
Excellent presentation, agree completely, I made some nice stuff over the years salvaging veneered panels
Found that really interesting, thank you. Love the retro style in your home.
Thank you
I had a quote from IKEA for one of those worktops. It was so expensive!
Also there's a great video by stew mac guitars about repairing a patch and grain matching by sticking a layer of clear plastic on the wood and sketching the grain pattern. Then holding it over other pieces of wood to find a match. Reminded me of your veneer patch project
Very well explained Keith I enjoyed the video.
Find a corner. Where three sides meet look for end grain.
But honestly if you can tell it’s veneered, does not mean it’s not, nor that it’s junk.
Veneering has been used for centuries by skilled craftsmen who’s work is still with us today.
Do not confuse veneer with cheap, or inferior.
I'm the member of the Solid Wood Church.
I have never made anything out of plywood, or God forbid MDF, OSB etc
I do use the aluminum or stainless steel or leather as complimentary materials from time to time.
I don't look down on anyone who is not a member of my Church.
but I will try to stay faithful to "my" philosophy.
I wouldn't even use plywood for the drawer bottoms or some invisible carcasses etc
in fact my principle attracts a certain category of the customers who understand that my pieces are expensive, take much longer to make, and they will last for few hundred years, and require refinishing from time to time.
I'm actually proud to be the member of this Church.
PS
I wouldn't even make a jig from plywood. it would be solid wood + aluminum. from time to time I "had to" use the UHMW plastic in combination with the aluminum. every time I use UHMW my heart hurts. I used UHMW for the J-cups for my stainless steel barbells in my home gym for example, as it seemed to be the best material for that particular purpose.
I do understand the benefits of using plywood and so on. I used plywood once for my miter saw zero clearance platform, and it serves the purpose well. but it was supposed to be a temporary solution and it sort of overstayed and still works fine.
That's interesting. I think plywood is a fantastic, clever product. I'm less fond of mdf and cupboard but they have their uses too
@@RagnBoneBrown yes plywood properties are fantastic, and without a shadow of a doubt they can be very useful.
I think I'm just trying to be the very old school and use only solid wood like the old time carpenters. I also try not to use any fasteners, unless it is inevitable, and then I would only use stainless steel ones, to make sure there will never be any rust problem or deterioration or diminishing of the functioning.
I like to get the inspiration from the traditional Japanese and European carpenters.
I also make sure all my furniture looks good from every angle, including from the back or underneath, even if you placed it in the middle of the room on the transparent floor, it would still look presentable. There are no areas that I would leave "ugly" because it is never going to be seen.
And the customers know this philosophy and are attracted to this approach and don't mind rewarding me for the extra effort and more expensive materials etc.
Good advice. I don't mind veneered furniture I just wish they would always label it as veneered as it can be confusing when companies don't mention it.
Yeah it can be a bit misleading to say the least!
Thanks for the video. Super useful stuff. Can you provide any comments on which base material is strongest - MDF, plywood or particleboard? Cheers
I really like this video, and I agree with you on the points regarding affordability, repair ease etc.
I'm looking forward to building my collection of tools and revitalising some of my own furniture, and your videos have always been excellent for teaching ideas and methods!
I have an obviously hand made bedside table from circa 1980, and while it is ugly it's not because it's veneered! Because it was made by someone with growing experience it's not amazing, but it's my favourite bit of furniture because of all the personality it has :)
Thank you! Character counts for a lot 👍
This video was really helpful for me, so thank you, i was wondering if my Ikea table was solid because i wanted to refurbish it, but i saw after watching this video that it was obvious that it was Veneer.
Alright geezer, good video. Do you know a good place to get veneer sheets from?
Interesting video
I'm a big fan of "cladding". I'm not sure that's a real term - it's just what i call it. Using 1/4 thick pieces of nicer wood as a veneer, similar to what you did with the end grain on your demonstration piece, or the IKEA thing you showed. It gives some benefits of veneer and some of solid wood. I've made several pieces this way, with MDF as a core and exotic wood on the outside. If you really want to be tricky, you can clad the majority of the piece, then get thicker pieces that you put on the visible edges that wrap around the corners. With those wrap pieces, you can do chamfers or round overs to complete the illusion that the entire thing is solid.
I'm not sure how feasible this is in all climates, though. I live in a pretty dry place, and maybe i get much less wood movement, so i don't have issues of cracking too much.
Thank you, really helpful, I’m a bit of a wood snob sadly! Just realised a cabinet top I’m restoring is veneer😩
Great info thank you I've got a very thin layer of veneer wood kitchen cabinets and wood like to protect it from knocks ah bruises and UV heat Ray's what's the best product or varnish or protector to use to cover the cabinet doors as I live in a hot country without it stripping or yellowing it ????? What your recommendation
I'm pretty certain they found veneered furniture in Tutankham's tomb, good enough for him, good enough for me. You can also match/book match the veneers on doors etc.
Excellent video there’s some proper information there. Ta muchly.
Thanks
Hi Kieth, We use 90mm 115mm and 140mm oak engineered square posts for certain newel posts we do. the veneers come in different sizes for different kinds of post, Any where from a 3mm veneer up to 10mm. in general there quite good for the right job. Only downfall is the odd post the veneer can come away due to the glue not taking. But for the numbers we use its very rare. maybe 2/3 out of 100 are defect.
Are you in the industry ? where do you get your oak panels from ?
@@justImagineIJ we buy them in from Europe, not sure who the supplier is though as im not the buyer
Very helpful! I am an interior designer and it is often hard to explain to people the difference between veneered wood and solid wood and the respective pros and cons. I would love to see a video on high pressured laminates out on the market these days. For example, a large reception desk; between the front, top and the file drawers, solid wood can be cost prohibitive. Durability is a huge factor to consider. In my experience, either laminate or veneer mixed with solids. What are your thoughts on mixing these materials and where/why?
Another advantage of veneer is it can give you grain patterns across panels not achievable with solid timber
Brilliant
Thanks for this! Given the expansion and contractions of solid wood, is it a good idea to have it in the kitchen?
wow, love the Ercol table :-)
We love it too!
Worst thing is the cardboard core with the thin chipboard veneer, that in turn has a plastic faux wood pattern glued to it.
Yeah, although it has it's uses, lightweight and light duty only tho
Yesterday I dismantled a queen size bed, possibly made in the 70's. It had a dark (walnut) woodlike surface, but at close inspection it was obviously textured 4s or 6s melamine. However, I was really surprised when I tore it apart and saw that the head- and footboard consisted of glued square pieces of solid wood. Ofc it was impossible to remove the melamine to see more what it was, but it looked like pine (Pinus sylvestris). The craziest thing was that the wood was densely grown (many annual rings), indicating the trees had been harvested from a natural forest and not one of those planted monocultures. So here they had mixed relatively expensive (soft) wood with cheap melamine. I guess it in reality reflected the "modern" taste people had at that time.
NOOICE! 😎
I get a giggle when the TV ads claim their furniture is SOLID oak - when in fact it IS oak but made from lots of small bits [prob salvaged from elsewhere] and bonded with modern glues, techniques etc. 'SOLID' being the 'selling' word !
I guess, in a way, the furniture that is made up of little staves of oak is actually more solid (strong) than it would be if it were one piece of wood, seeing as the glue that bonds it together is stronger than the wood itself...? I really don't like the look of it though, it's like a patchwork quilt!
Just bought some of your wax, I have high hopes for it.
Really nice video! Which core do you prefer working with?
Cheers Sam. Depends on the application really but plywood is my favourite to work with
Hi there! Thank you for this video! I want to buy a table but the description is a bit confusing.. like this “Handcrafted from kiln-dried solid oak with fine oak veneers” solid wood but they covered with fake wood? Please help me out :) thank you!!!
Veneer is not fake wood. It's thin slices of real wood, unless it's some kind of plastic laminate
Thank you! It's not as simple as inferior vs. superior. My mom has a really expensive and beautiful coffee and end table set that someone set a glass of water on that spilled. It swelled so much that the glass topper to the table doesn't sit on it, she has, as a result, felt that MDF is inferior to solid wood.
Yep it's wood !
"I know that because I made it"
Brilliant & Thx :)
Kieth, another well thought out and beautifully explained video. Not all of us are seasoned woodworkers, some, despite our age, are comparative novices. For all woodworkers this sort of video is really useful. You might know the subject matter well but I bet even the most experienced pick up some tips and at the very least, you make us think. Thank you.
Thanks John
Can we use solid wood for all wood to make any stuffs?
Solid wood man myself but that isn't to say veneer is beneath me or anything. Applying exotic veneers for furniture - absent industrial machines - is, or can be, an art form all of its own. Amazing scope for aesthetics that last with veneers.
Other than the practicalities of my designs, the main reason I'm solid wood only is as you said Keith - it can be repaired or even refashioned easily.
Quite impressed with the veneer mock up btw.👍
I don't enjoy the process of veneering, probably because I've never put the time in to learning how to do it well. It's a shame veneers aren't twice or even the times as thick, I think I'd use them more!
@@RagnBoneBrown Defo a skill that needs time investment eh? With a decent bandsaw and resaw blade, you could always make your own veneers 1-2mm thick. Lot cheaper to buy a walnut plank to resaw than buy enough to build a piece from solid 🤷♂️
Even though the material can be cheaper, veneering can be very time consuming. That being said I think it's my favourite technique.
Solid wood on the edges with veener can look very refined and not cheap made. Also, bigger oak tables won't weight a ton :)
Always happy to see You veneering something, no matter what that is :)
Very good points 👍
Where in the UK are you based , I’m returning from South Africa next year
I'm just starting out woodworking and I'd love to try out veneering as I have a few bits of particle board salvaged from some cheap bookcases I got when I first moved out 12+ years ago. I'm a bit worried about expansion/contraction though - I've heard that you need to veneer both sides of your board so the flimsier substrate doesn't get warped by the movement of the veneer, since that's real wood? Would that only apply for thick veneers? Or for wide surfaces as with regular wood boards? Can you use different veneers on each side to get a cool effect and/or save money by buying cheaper veneers? Thanks for your videos, I'm learning lots from them, and it's cool to see someone in the UK, it feels more attainable than folks in the US with massive several-car garages.
Hi Claire, interesting point. I think as long as the substrate is relatively thick, I wouldn't think a veneer expanding and contracting would be a problem for the board. But not sure! 👍
I do a fair bit of woodwork as a hobby. I often don’t take into account expansion and contraction (Lazy planner!) and I’ve only had 1 project crack ( bad build choices, rather than considering expansion). Just do it, you’ll learn and if it breaks - You made it you can fix it!
Clare - is a usual practice to veneer both sides in order produce a 'balanced' board. Plywood for example is usually manufactured with an odd number of layers for the same reason. But don't think you have to use the same veneer both sides. In a recent project I used oak on the show face and cheaper poplar on the reverse. On smaller boards (like drawer fronts) where the ratio between thickness and board dimensions is greater, I do just veneer one side and edge-band the show edges - never found any warping so don't feel its a rule that can't be ignored from time-to-time.
@@coalitionofrob436 Thanks for sharing your experience. I love your point about being able to fix or remake things! I always want to do everything perfectly from the word go but that's not really how becoming good at a hobby works :P
@@StrawbyteWorkshop Oh, that's interesting about the layers of ply, I didn't know that! I'll definitely have to try poplar veneer on one side and walnut on the other if I'm ever doing a really big surface - though I am trying to stick to smaller projects right now to get some workshop hours under my belt. Thank you for your advice & expertise!
Cute cat!
Excellent. Veneering has a long history in fine furniture. Your presentation raises a question: with lumber core plywood or veneered wood (presumably finger jointed strips of solid wood) how is wood movement addressed? Do the strips somehow reduce the movement?
I think even with small staves of wood finger jointed together, the expansion / contraction would be roughly the same as solid wood - i.e. kitchen worktops would need to be fixed in a way to allow for the movement
@@RagnBoneBrown So, how does that avoid splitting the veneer? (Our 50 year old dining room table is a thick walnut veneer over a lumber core comprising strips laid with the veneer grain. After your discussion I am trying to figure out why nothing has ever moved. Ignorance had its advantages.)
Is the veneer grain direction opposite to the core grain direction? If so, I guess it works similarly to plywood, the glue is holding it all together to keep it stable?
@@RagnBoneBrown Unfortunately (if I’m reading things correctly) the veneer and core grain are in the same direction. Oh well.
Interesting.
With laminate flooring, I believe they actually use a photograph of wood instead of a veneer and then laminate over it with varnish / polyurethane, hence why each plank is identical.
It can be either. The cheaper stuff is definitely just print, but some of the mor expensive laminated floors do have actual wood on the surface
@@nathanlucas6465 Cool.
I thought it was just engineered wood that had the real stuff on the top
2:09 What was the bad state you found it in? New Jersey? lol
You can almost hear everyone running through to check their worktops!
I bought Ikeas MÖCKELBY oak veneered table @ £349. The top is 3mm thick veneer and can be refinished if necessary and end grain looks good at a glance but wont fool any woodworker.
They do some great products
If you've only come here for Dylan skip to 00:54...Yay!!! \0/
Didn't Oak Furnitureland have some kind of problem with their 'there's no veneer in 'ere' ads a couple of years back???
Did they? That's interesting! I'll look in to that
👍🏻🍻🍺🐶
Damaged solid wood = rustic
Damaged veneered wood = coasters place holder
If I have to use ply for somethin I always like to veneer it, it looks much better than raw ply, and it's often cheaper to veneer it yourself rather than buy ply already faced with veneers...... plus its progressing my skills with veneer work, even my shooting board is veneered, as a practice in bookmatching; a failed practice I might add 🤷♂️😂
There is nothing wrong with veneers, it's been used for hundreds of years, and these people who "poo-poo" veneers probably use ply at some stage..... which is layers of veneer glued together 😁
with the price of wood using veneer is the only choice for a lot of customers now.
vay.fyi
great
if one can't tell the difference between real wood and veneered fake crap probably isn't qualified to own a saw or even a hammer.