Why I Never Wet Sand a Guitar
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- Are you wondering if you should wet sand the clear coat on your guitar? In this video we discuss why I never do that.
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Brad,
Very funny "all the experts below" , "swirl job" how do you do it? That being keep a straight face. Thinking about 5 steps before the average person & most of all loved your inferences.
And to all the experts swirl on!
best, Dave
Over arching statement "why 'I' never wetsand" not a statement that anyone should get bothered by as it's your choice seems self evident risk not worth reward and you are getting the results you want and doing it your way.
Very true! I found out the hard way years ago when the wood in the tuning peg holes sucked up water and I had to let it dry and strip it and start over.
Yikes. Yeah, it doesn’t take many of those to cause a change of habit as far as I’m concerned.
I had the exact thing happen to me a few years Back.
How did you avoid it when you redid it?
Probably just did it dry like a lot of finishers do now with modern sandpaper. It doesn’t take much water in a peg hole to crack your lacquer, so I’m guessing he just eliminated that risk haha.
This is great advice Brad. I learned the hard way a long time ago by wet sanding a guitar and the lacquer cracked around screw holes etc. Dry sanding is definitely the way to go.
Better safe than sorry, right?
There are precautions you can take to ensure that no water gets into the wood itself, but yes, it has it's risks if you are inexperienced or don't really know how to prevent that, or deal with it if actual wood does get wet. The amount of water that it would require for you to crack a well finished guitar's finish is not trivial. You'd have to drench unfinished parts of the body.. And if you do that, you're not wet sanding or painting properly. With smaller amounts you'd most likely just get some discoloration of the finish, cloudiness etc.. Which would likely fade as it dried. I know that a lot of people ensure that their cavities are finished and fill them with dry sponges so that any thing that happens to get in there will not be effected. Others mask it off... Others do all of the above. After care is essential too. If you allow it to dry in a well ventilated room, or better yet, a low temp kiln, instead of assembling right away, you remove all risk. However your point about the no load sand paper, etc is a good point. Water does hydrate the upper layer of finish though, however that can be accomplished with buffing compounds, etc as well, and those might even do a better job. Believe it or not folks, sometimes water is actually used to help in repairs, expanding the wood in a dent, etc. It's really not that big of a deal.
My first complete finish job(on a guitar) had many cracks from what I eventually found out was wet sanding. About half of the holes in the body(screw holes) developed cracks along the grain. I had to refinish and re-wet sand it. BUT I had learned by then that one method of preventing these cracks is to put paste wax or candle wax(I used this one) in the screw holes before wet sanding. It worked. Another method someone on YT suggested was using naptha instead of water when wet sanding. PS. Thanks Brad for the no load paper suggestion, I will try it on my next guitar finish, hopefully soon. Keep up the great work!
I don’t trust the wax method enough to use it personally. Using naphtha or another fast evaporating item that won’t dissolve your finish is one way to reduce the risks. It doesn’t cause expansion to nearly the extent that the water does. It also doesn’t work as well for wet sanding though.
Brad, I think I've said this in the past or recently. When I refinished a Gibson Flying V, it turned out great however, after a few weeks two pickguard holes started to crack. I was extremely bummed to the point where I gave the guitar to my son. A lesson was learned big time. Thank you for clarifying this dilemma.
Sorry to hear that happened. At least it’s helpful for next time to have a sense of what caused it.
@@BradAngoveYes! That's why I was gun shy about using Nitrocellulose again. But with your expertise as well as other luthiers and or finishers I know what to do now. I was going to use Polyurethane, but I didn't like the idea of one: the incompatibility of sanding sealers, two: the process of sanding between sets of coats. Wish me luck I will be using, sanding sealer, primer because I want an opaque background, Mohawk instrument lacquer used with Mixol tints. Maybe with a hint of mica powder.
I totally agree, Brad! Once I have a finish on a guitar, I dry sand, if needed with some very fine (1500-2000 grit) sand paper, then wipe it down with a dry cloth, then a mildly damp cloth, then again with a dry cloth. I keep wetness to an absolute minimum since 1. we're dealing with wood, and 2. my finish of choice is usually lacquer. Good video!
Thanks Ron
Great advice Brad, especially for those who dont know or not sure, about this, i for one wasnt sure, but you just clarified this for me, so a Big Thank You, like you say each to there own, but im all ears when it comes to advice with some you like and Trust,,,, who really knows what they are talking about, thats You, in case your wondering, thanks again Brad, Cheers
I've done a couple of guitars and wet sanded with great results, but you make some really good points, esp. about unfinished areas like post + tailpiece holes, so I'm going to try dry for my current build. Thanks for the tip!
Let me know if you notice any difference in your finished product.
Great points you brought up...especially for some of us fools who are in the process of refinishing a guitar body that is made out of plywood..lol.Thanks for your advice on this topic..it never occurred to me how much havoc might be caused by water getting into pickguard screw holes and such.
The fewer people who have to learn this lesson the hard way, the better.
Brad I never thought about it like that. And it makes perfect sense.
Good tip. The LP looks good in the background. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the series.
My fret tools are due today in the mail. Guitar kit purchase is soon to follow. Excited!
Excellent. Now you get to jump into the not so wonderful world of fretwork.
lol. I take it that it's not your favorite part of building a guitar. :)
If we be surprised to hear anyone say it’s their favourite haha.
Sandpaper and paint technology has changes so much over the years. And I don’t see why you would want to wet sand paint on wood that has holes!! Some of the cutting compound pastes are also fantastic giving you a great paint finish. Even high end guitars have shitty paint finishes as does my 60s USA telecaster. I once had a Les Paul that had black flecks all over the lacquer finish. Preparation is always the best key to a great paint finish and never rush the job.
You're supposed to fill them with grain filler and tape ones that are manufactured r*tard. 😅
you are fucking great man, I did a natural finish on my bass just watching your vids
I wet sand after my first clear coat. When there is a run or defect I'm correcting. Small amount of water with dawn soap. Then if I sand through the clear the suds change colour and I know to stop sanding.
Everything else is dry sanded.
Abralon and micromesh are my normal abrasives.
Great tip Brad!
Thanks.
I was about to wet sand and now am not going to. It's my first build, I used a water based lacquer, IF water gets where it shouldn't, it would not be very nice. I may use more sandpaper but so be it. Thanks for this video.
oh, another option while wet sanding is simply to use an alcohol like 91% isopropyl to sand, it vapes off quick, so it won't tend to crack. though, it will dissolve certain wipe-on finishes. the reason for wet sanding is more to clean the paper continuously, so it doesn't even have to be wet all the time,. however, with water it will clump if it is only moist.
There are a few alternative lubricants that help avoid the issue. I don’t find them particularly worth the expense and hassle, but if you’re insistent on wet sanding you should be able to find something that works relatively well.
I've been getting away with quite a lot with a project that has run on far too long already due to drops and repairs. Temp changes, leaving the body inside and outside overnight and of course wet sanding to avoid compacted paint pills from scratching it all up...until today - Now there are spider cracks from the neck pocket and one of the string holes. I think I may have to learn this lesson...
Sorry to hear that. I wish this information were more commonly available.
I just need someone to let me know if the list of steps for guitar finishing is correct or not, because I have seen so many different things.
For a solid finish guitar:
1. Sand
2. Wood filler
3. Sand
4. Sanding sealer
5. Primer
6. Color coats
7. Sand
8. Clear coats
9. Buffer
Then for a stained finish, are all steps the same except you wouldn’t do wood filler, sanding sealer, primer, or color?
Also, are sanding sealer and primer the same, or should two different products be used?
You don’t need sanding sealer and primer. I did a video on the difference between those. You should also sand your sealer or primer before moving on to your color.
Brad Angove thanks for the reply. Also, sorry for all the questions. I’ve been slowly getting around to trying to watch all your videos so I’m not as annoying haha
Fair enough answer and much the same reason I'm not going to.
When I wet sand, I use only water composed of the deuterium hydrogen isotope. This slows the propagation of the neutrons and helps prevent finish cracking and crazing. I can't say it's a money-saving option, however.
Have you tried using the tears of a mermaid, preferably of pure soul? I hear it works wonders.
Brad Angove .. Only if they are really fresh.
Mermaid tears get bad really quick!
Better use the mashed innards of a unicorn.
They work great and smell like apple pie.
They are quite expensive though and hard to come by.
But you can always use cyclops eyeballs if all else fails ☝️
The supply of cyclops eyeballs is also quite limited though. I find there are about half as many as one would expect...
Brad Angove LMFAO..
I Should have seen that one coming x-)
Why don't you do one of these in the next video with that straight face of yours.
Would be really interesting to see the reactions...
Just a straight up joke video about the merits of using unicorn piss or something like that?
Hello Brad. Great video, I never wet sand clear, I always go straight to polishing.
Cheers from Oklahoma City.
You don’t worry about flattening it first?
Oh yes I do, do that. Just not wet.
Oh, that makes sense.
What's so different about wet sanding a Finnish guitar?
I’ve never owned a Finnish guitar actually.
I'm making a lacquer on a snare drum. It's my very first time lacquering (so far, so good), and I was wondering exactly that. I mean, since it's a restoration and not a brand new shell, all the holes for the tension lugs, the strainer and the vent + the bearing edges are already there. That's a lot of holes (+ the edges), and seems impossible to prevent them from getting wet. They're covered with paper and masking tape to prevent the paint/lacquer to stain the interior and the edges, so it would be very difficult (or more likely impossible) to prevent it from soaking if I wet sanded. I was afraid I had to remove the tape and the paper after each wet sanding to dry the wood (interior, holes and edges) each time, and then to put it on again before every new coat... but if the only problem with dry sanding it is that I'll have to spend a bit more sand paper, it seems fair enough for me...
Thanks, this helps a lot !
You can try waxing the exposed wood areas. Like I said though, I generally just dry sand instead.
@@BradAngove hi, thanks for your reply !! Yes, I guess wax would do the job, but if I have to cover all the inner side + holes + edges, it seems a lot of wax, and I'd also have to clean it up after (and it's just a snare drum, imagine a bass drum or a whole kit !). If I can get the same result by dry sanding, why to bother ?
As you can tell, I'm new to this. I'd heard about the wet sanding and at first I thought it was necessary to do it wet in order to get a nice result. But if, as you said, the only differences are the dust and the amount of sand paper that you'll need, well, I don't think that should be even a concern for a guy like me, who only would make this once in a while and I'm not earning my life from this. I mean, how much sand paper may I use, anyway ? (It's just sand paper, not gold...!!!). Maybe this could be a concern for someone who does hundreds of pieces every year, I don't know, but that's not my case anyway.
So, what I'm concerned about is with getting a good result, and if by doing it dry sanding instead of wet, I can achieve it, avoiding the risk of cracking the lacquer and it will only costs me just a bit more sand paper, well, it's pretty obvious then to me.
Wich grit would you recommend for this? I thought of (P) 800, 1500 and 2000 (and then buffing at the end after a month or so of drying).
PS: what I'm also concerned about is temperature. It's hot these days where I live (40°C or so, you know, depening on the hour). I'm doing it in a friend's whorkshop and I don't know the exact temperature that there is inside, but I can tell you it ain't cold. Should I use some retardant for the solvent/thinner...? 🤔
Thanks again !
The sandpaper grit depends on how smooth it already is. If you can get away with just 1500 and 2000, that’s likely better.
Retarder is for dealing with excess humidity more so than temperature.
@@BradAngove Ah, ok, much better then... =)
PS: I've watched some of your videos and I found them very helpful and informative, with very clear and straight to the point explanations. Moreover, I've seen that you use to answer many comments and solve any doubt if you can, wich is something very appreciated. I think this well deserves a sub. Thanks !!
Makes Perfect Sense!!!
Your point is rather valid, I manage to be working with a ex-ibanez luthier jim Donahue, who was a key designer in the ibanez jem and a pretty well known guy in the community of builders. Anyway, at his shop we wetsand everything but instead of with water its mineral spirits, we have never had a issue with it causing cracking and the finish usually comes out amazing
Something like mineral spirits or naphtha is a good option if you feel that wet sanding is necessary.
Its not that we really feel its necessary it to save paper mostly
Dab Ca glue in all holes under edges of cavs...water will not go up under the paint and swell.
What about using mineral spirits for wet sanding instead of water...As that won't swell the wood?
But depending on the paint type it could harm it.
Square up, I use water reducible urethane, right on the wood.I have since the early 90's.I wetsand between every few coats during the build and work 600-2000 grits till I switch to polishing compound and 3 different Meguires polishes all with water. None of my instruments has cracks or any surface damage. No lifting, nothing. So, like many other sacred cows in luthiery, this whole line of thought can fall into the whimsical category.
Right. Because if it hasn’t happened to you, it can’t happen, right? I assume you’ve been on an airplane before. Never been in a crash? I guess those fall into the whimsical category as well then...
Temperature change and the repetition of barometric pressure over time produces cracks in lacquer, epoxy, concrete and asphalt. Fill and smooth.....
Like I said in the video bud, whatever works for you. This is just why I don’t wet sand guitars.
And like I’ve said to many others: just because you’ve been doing something a long time, doesn’t mean you’re doing it right. Just ask your wife.
@@BradAngove LMFAO !!
Awesome videos! First I want to say I’ve really learned a lot about finishing guitars from watching them. So on to my question. What do you use for dry sanding between sets of lacquer clear coat and then before final polishing besides just “3M” as in what specific series and grits of 3M sandpaper. I only ask because 3M makes a wider array of products than probably any other company on the planet. Thanks and rock on!
You would get a much better answer than I can write here is you watch my video about whether you need to sand between coats of paint, and my video on what grits of sandpaper to use.
"load up" means what?
A lot of people do not know what that catchy phrase means. What does it mean?
When it fills with dust/gunk
How should we sand down orange peel?
Follow one of my tutorials on the polishing process.
Actually this falls online with what others are saying for cars too. You can cut and polish with out sanding and get rid of Orange peel. So why go through the trouble? So your thoughts are pretty sound.
Glad to hear it’s not just me haha.
Great Video Brad. I've only done 1 guitar, a tele, and I wet sanded. Water never got under the finish because (don't laugh or grimace!) when I sprayed the finish coats I hadn't covered the screw holes or the cavities... not even where the neck mounts on the body. Ouch! And do you know how many coats I ended up putting on?? lol Which brings me to my question. How can I get the finish flat???
no matter how much or little that I sand I can never get the speckles (low areas to go away. I just get more and more and then when I almost think I'm making progress they appear again. I've tried sanding it just a little bit and wiping and checking and just a bit more and wiping and checking so I know I'm not sanding it too much. Also, this is another reason why I have put so many coats on it lol. Please.... How can I get it flat? Thank you
More low areas should never appear. Are you using a sanding block? Are you keeping your sandpaper fresh/clean?
i like wet sanding... it makes a huge differance with how the stuff sticks to the paper. it is more of a convieniance thing really, because i don't like having to cut new papers every 2 minutes. though, it also makes it so the paper doesn't chip and cause there to be a big scratchy edge where the grits fell off.-- this issue is dependant on the paper used though.
as far as avoiding the issue of getting water into the wood, i suggest using shellac to coat the cavities and stuff prior if you have an issue with that. two coats of wipe-on shellac should be good enough to make the wood inpermiable to water, and it is super easy to apply and drys within an hour(coats can be applied every 10 minutes or so, but it is supposed to go on super thin).
I just use decent paper and clean it occasionally. I replace it more often than I would if wet sanding, but I don’t have to worry. Shellac might work for the cavities, but those aren’t the only issue.
As long as you’re confident in your system though, that’s the important part.
yeah, it is one of those things that doesn't really depend on how you do it as long as you know what not to do, and avoid those things.
I wet sanded my guitar and did get some cracking - luckily it was only around the screw holes so they were covered. I'll have to try dry sanding next time.
Glad it didn’t cause you too much trouble.
I wet sanded the neck on my new guitar that I lacquered, I used turtle wax spray lubricant for auto headlight lense refinishing and it worked out fine. Not sure if I was just lucky or if the lubricant works better than water/soap.
Some lubricants are less risky than water, though still not necessary. Also, wet sanding won’t always cause cracking, but it does create that unnecessary risk.
If you are devoted wet sander, could you not simply first "seal" the holes or any area of bare wood with a seal coat? Considering most people do not accurately control the humidity their guitars are exposed to I wonder if that would not be an overall benefit.
Getting a seal coat to properly seal the holes in an unreliable and risky prospect. You would be better off using a liquid that evaporates really quickly rather than water if you insist on wet-sanding.
Do you just polish after painting? How do you get the orange peel out..dry sand before polishing?
Yes and yes.
Sealing up any holes with matches dipped in a couple of layers of beeswax can help if you really have to, but that's sensible man. I've found a 'lacquer' (it's not nitro per se, it's called Halfords Lacquer, not the bloody silver cans though, and can be used over nitro too and doesn't yellow or crack) that actually dries properly after doing a fairly wet coat. If I get orange peel a blast of 'leveller' which is their paints solvents can help flatten it and then you can polish it. I've had some bloody nightmares with different lacquers, apart from that one I like nitro, it's fairly easy to spray level and polish, did a tenor uke for my girlfriend using that and wet sanded it very carefully when it was all waterproof, and it came out lovely. If you don't need to do it, or like me you're usually fecking cack handed then avoid it if you can. But wax can help. It's a pain in the bum sometimes, making guitars...
That’s helpful, but honestly I just don’t see a need for it. Dry sanding delivers the same result.
Brad Angove that's cool man, you know more about it than I do so it'll be something I try next hopefully, I've got a Mahogany neck to seal and lacquer so I'll see how it goes. 😃
I hope it goes well.
Brad Angove cheers man, I wish it was Maple but it's still a cool double cut guitar and a lesson in stopping Mahogany being like a sponge. Great videos man, they're so helpful. Look after yourself dude.
Hey Brad, thanks for the video. Have you ever tried wet-sanding (the clear coat) with ethanol (or any other alcohol)? I pretty much agree with what you say in your video, though I find wet sanding far more effective and smoother than dry sanding. I see no risk of swelling/ cracking, as ethanol is far more volatile than water. When it comes to damaging/ dissolving the clear coat, I reckon it should be no problem either, as ethanol should never dissolve a hardened clear coat (spray max 2K). Not the cheapest solution, though the volume of ethanol should be quite small, just small amounts to wet the sand paper. What do you think?
I use naphtha for wet sanding occasionally. I believe they’re fairly similar in that respect.
@@BradAngove thanks Brad. I ended up covering the holes with glue and wet-sanding with water. There would have been no way to dry-sand the whole guitar body as I did
I totally would use the good sanding stuff if it was on hand in this small town. Lol. I have to wet sand but that was the best point to bring up. Plus dry sanding is one better because it does not include that risky element to the paint and finish.
Do they not have amazon in your town haha
Brad Angove yeah we have amazon lol. I like to see the product though. Hardware stores don’t carry them. Sad really. I use micro mesh on headlights.
Hey Brad, could you show us how to prevent getting raised paint edges when masking please? Sometimes it's hard to avoid.
What I do is take off the masking tape when the paint is still fresh.
the same guys who tell you this will tell you that you absolutely need a super thin finish on your guitar in order to sound correctly, the next thing you know they'll go back and play on their guitars with a 4mm thick polyester finish !
The same guys who tell you what?
Just thought to myself the other day, I hear the term "wet sanding" getting thrown around maybe I should look into it. I see this in my sub feed and in less than 4min of explanation, Brad gives me all the usable knowledge ill ever need about it, cant beat that!
Haha glad to be of service.
oh, and maybe you'll do a red and black burst, with semi transparent red paint and gloss finish (I can't find the colors I need to do that, please help)
Maybe I’ll do a red and black burst? On what?
Are you looking for a particular type of paint?
Thank you for this video. I am attempting to fix a spot on the top of my tele (size of a nickel) and I saw a couple of videos where they wet sanded the crazy glue they used to fill the chip. Think I will try dry. Is 3000 grit overkill? Was going to do 400, 600, 800, 1000 and 2000. Any advice is appreciated. Cheers!
I don’t find that 3000 is overkill personally.
Hey Brad I just applied Rustoleum Primer & Paint Gloss Purple to Stratocaster body and don’t want to use clear coat. Should I just fry sand from 800 grit to 2000 grit and then apply my polishing compound? I also have rubbing compound I was gonna use before the polishing compound but I’m afraid it might be too abrasive. Should I just stick with the polishing compound you think? Thank you!
The rubbing compound will be much less abrasive than the sandpaper. If your paint is nice and smooth you don’t need to start with 800. Just use 1500 or 2000 to get it perfect and then compound and polish.
@@BradAngove thank you so much Brad! I really appreciate you man! Keep up the awesome videos!
Do you have any specific brands of sandpaper that you recommend for dry sanding?
Most of my stuff is 3M. Norton and Mirka are also excellent.
first
to ask a question: can you make a satin white guitar?
Of course you can!
What about vintage guitars? I got a old Starcaster from the 70’s that has a haze or really dull looking finish. It has a flames maple top. I’ve tried Maguires #7 and it helped a lot, but it’s still not there yet.
Did you sand at all before polishing? Is it just a bit dull?
@@BradAngove no I didn’t
That might help if you go through the sand and polish process. More likely it could use an update coat of lacquer; as long as there’s nothing trapped underneath.
@@BradAngove thank you! I will probably just leave it be. I really don’t know what I’m doing when it comes to doing that kind of stuff. Lol
I appreciate you taking the time to reply!
Hey Brad, does this apply also to using wet and dry sand paper to take off the lacquer from the neck? I saw Scott from Scott Bass Lessons that he recommended doing it but unlike you, he's no luthier. What do you recommend?
I wouldn’t necessarily consider myself a luthier either, but yes. There’s nothing wrong with using wet and dry paper, but I suggest you avoid getting the guitar overly wet. I would just use it dry.
Thanks for your interesting video. Do you have a video on how to fix blushing? My classic guitar clearcoat turned white... despite just sitting in the case.
I don’t have a video on it, but Mohawk makes a blush remover spray that I heard works quite well.
@@BradAngove shoot I just called the company, the blush remover does not work on polyurethane... it will actually make the clearcoat turn yellow
Oh, I didn’t realize it was poly. Poly doesn’t get blush very often. Using a heat gun carefully might help, but it could also damage it if you overdo it.
So what grit do you start with on a 2k project? I do the swirl finishes and wet sand. Messy and always have the risk of swelling. Have swelled a couple in the past. Could you recommend some sand paper to use? Using 3m wet and dry right now.
3m wet and dry is fine. I prep for 2k with 800 grit.
What are the sandpaper types used so that you don’t have to wet sand.
The best ones in my opinion are the 3M trizact and the mirka abralon.
Rather than just talking about it you should show an example. I wet sand to avoid the dust. If your careful and you plug the larger holes you won't sustain water damage...
Show an example of what? I think people know what wet sanding and dry sanding look like.
That explains a lot. I've built 2 guitar kits and the finish on the first cracked, so I striped it down and redid the paint job. This time no wet sanding and no polished finish. The second one I used rattle cans and a rattle can clear coat. It turned out better. My question is, I'm building the body from scratch and I want to use pearl finish. Do I have to use car paint? I can't find it in rattle cans or house paint.
It definitely comes in various rattle cans.
Tcpglobal.com they carry a number of pearls from Duplicolor and House of Color in rattle can, 2K and Acrylic lacquer
I will have to broaden my search area. Thank you for the info.
Rustoleum, duplicolor, spraymax, hand ouse of kolor should have some options for you.
Found surf blue pearl by spray max, and a 2k high gloss clear coat.
My first guitar ever has a poly finish and a lot of scratches. Is it possible to take those scratches out and make it look new without repainting the whole guitar? Will sanding dry with micromesh work for that?
It depends on how deep the scratches are. Light scratches can be sanded and buffed out.
I have a old piece of crap acoustic that I'm trying to make look cool and I sanded some spots a little bit too deep I've already put stain on it and the guitar looks great except for those spots where I went too deep, do you have any suggestions on how to fix it do I use wood filler? I'm using ebony stain which is a dark black stain.
How does it look in those spots? Darker, or lighter?
If you've invested in a process and have it working reliably, then by all means wet sand. But there's the catch. Investment in process.
Similarly, steel wool is a whole load cheaper than scotchbrite pads but if you have pickups in the same room as steel wool, or use a finish that isn't completely water free you are going to have problems. Saving a few pennies on process won't help if it even causes one in 1000 instruments to fail quality control. And if you're a small builder you may never reach that many builds, or even one hundred, but I bet every builder out there has had quality control fails. What do you do, sell an instrument that you know isn't good enough, harming your reputation, burn something that represents tens or even hundreds of hours work? What's the price you put on your time?
Indeed.
Brad I have finished my body using clear lacquer from stew mac. I sprayed about 6 coats or so and started wet sanding. After some buffing and letting it sit some I noticed some cracks As you mentioned in the video around the bridge hole and the pickup cavities. Are you saying I'm going to have to sand the finish back off and start over I really dont want to have to do that. Is there any other recourse? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Hi Sean. There may be some other ideas out there on the forums. Perhaps something to do with spraying thinner or blush reducer on there with just a touch of actual lacquer in it to melt everything back together. I’m just speculating though. I haven’t actually tried anything to do that.
@@BradAngove Thanks Brad
Great video Brad. Thank you again for your insight. I do have a question: I’m building a black and white EVH replica. He didn’t clear coat it- just polished. If I choose to not clear coat, which grit should I start with to smooth everything out before I polish? Or am I nuts for not putting clear on it despite what Ed originally did?
Whether you absolutely have to clear depends on what kind of paint you’re using. What grit you start with depends a bit on how smooth your finish goes on. With no clear, hopefully your finish goes on smooth and you can start high, like 2000 grit.
Brad Angove I used Duplicolor
Brad Angove Thanks Brad!
Ok, you should be able to go straight to polishing that. I would never recommend it, but it’s an option.
Are you sure Eddie actually bothered to polish his?
Brad Angove I’ve been told by some pretty reliable folks that he did to smooth out the tape lines
Is this still true if you wet-sand with naptha or denatured alcohol or some other very volatile liquid?
Less so. Liquids that evaporate quickly don’t really cause this issue. Bear in mind that they can ruin some finishes though. They’re also an unnecessary expense as far as I’m concerned.
Would you wet sand a flat black guitar? And if you would, would it be before or after the matte clear coat.
Generally I wouldn’t wet sand any guitar. The addition of water is a risk I don’t like to take on a wooden object.
Brad Angove okay. There are just some rough spots on my current project, but the paint job is pretty nice. Should I dry sand before the clear coat or is it necessary? Or sand between clear coats. Thanks again for all your help o really appreciate you answering these questions.
I’d give it a light sand before the clear with 800 grit and then not sand between coats.
I thought your going to walk with us with the les Paul build, and it's already done?! I'm a bit disappointed though can we have a sound test instead??
Cassa di Birra maybe.. If that's the case I may not be disappointed I just need to wait
There’s generally some lag time for me to be able to create, edit, and upload the videos. This guitar has been done for a while. Stay tuned for the rest of the series.
Yey!!
You are absolutely right, wet sanding timber can go horribly wrong
But I will stick with the soapy water, it works well if you are careful and I’m too old to change now
Keep up the good work , I really enjoy your stuff👍
Haha fair enough. I was wondering when someone would comment about using soap. I remember years back working at an auto body shop where they had a bucket of water with a bunch of high grit paper in it. A few of the more “experienced” guys kept wanting to add dish soap haha.
Ha that's kind of how i got started, automotive restoration in the 80's and 90's rubbing out acrylic lacquer
if ya wanted something finer than 1200 use soap ha ha, so I'm a dinosaur
thanks for the reply mate
I'm working on an acoustic guitar and I'd like to use an electric sander, but I'm nervous about the concave edges. Any advice?
Use one with a flexible pad, or just used a flexible sanding pad in that area.
@@BradAngove Good to know. Thank you!
so how do you get the orange peel to go away?
Sand and polish. I have several videos about this process on my channel.
I’m about 2 more coats away from being ready to sand my first lacquer finish. I was going to wet sand but after seeing this I’m going to dry sand. What grit should I start with and is 5000 grit where I should stop? I have some wet sand mesh paper but I’m guessing I can dry sand with it too. Is that correct?
Yes, that’s generally correct. Your starting point depends on how rough it is. Usually around 1000. 5000 is plenty high for a stopping point.
Thanks Brad! Great videos as always! Looking forward to your Solo kit videos. Currently making their musicman style bass and it is in desperate need of instructions.
Hopefully my videos will help haha.
I watched a lot of those factory tour videos of Gibson and Fender and never saw them wet sanding, so I figured if they don't then I wont. I did try it once on a scratch build, and got a pretty clean even gloss finish, but nowhere near as good as what I can get from a decent spray coat of clear ...
Fender and Gibson use large buffing wheels with special compounds to get the shine. much faster and efficient when making 1000 guitars a day.
It does tend to speed things up haha.
I use sillocone free Pledge to buff my axe.
lol - I raised this point a few weeks ago in a Fcebook group and it caused a shitstorm of biblical proportion. All I said is "you don't have to" and everyone read it as "you shouldn't".
People will jump on they keyboard and cry foul before they try it themselves. I was a "denier" until I did it. :)
Haha yeah, I remember that. That escalated really fast.
LOL. The internet was developed for shitstorms.
Electric guitar paint stain and finishing group.
I ruined my LP guitar by wet sanding. I masked off the front and wet sanded the back when i pulled the front paper off the water went under the veneer cover and water went under it and lifted it grrrrr.
Yikes. That’s brutal.
Ahh bull - I am skilled enough that I can screw up my nice paint job with or without wet sanding lol... I have a Les Paul style guitar I am not kidding you Brad I had to strip..paint... re-strip..re-paint..re-strip..re-paint lol literally 7 times!! To this day I have no clue what was happening with that thing. It just seemed that every time I got the paint to look like I wanted it to look as soon as I started spraying on the poly it would crack... finally I got it to work, no clue what I did differently! Do you have any video's on swirl painting? I have tried that technique 3 times now with no luck at all! The last one I tried, well same guitar 3rd attempt at a swirl finish, the paint the first time never dried, the second time I tried the swirls blended and it wasn't "swirly" lol - the last time I got it right but as soon as I tried to sand it smooth the paint just came right off - so any advice as to what types of paint to use for this procedure? I bought some paint that was specifically for swirling but that was the last two attempts.
7 times? You’re a patient man haha.
I’ve only got one video related to swirling. It’s about how to do a ghosted swirl. Frankly, I’m not very good at swirling personally. It’s something I’ve never really taken the time to practice since the setup for it is such a paint in the ass.
Generally you would use enamels for the paint, and often some borax in the water. There are forums that discuss the best products etc.
Brad Angove lol yeah believe me that guitar almost became kindling! The swirl paint I had you didn't need the borax and stuff...lol maybe that's why it didn't work! I will check out your video, thanks Brad !
What kind of paint did you have?
It was spray paint from walmart, can't recall the brand but it was a more expensive type. I love using this paint because of the way it sprays on, very nice even flow.
Hey Brad - I found a can of that paint I used its Rust-oleum Universal Metallic Oil Rubbed Bronze. I don't know if you're familiar with this paint but try a can of it, I love the way it goes on, Very nice and smooth and even.
I used to wet sand but don’t anymore. I haven’t found any real savings in sandpaper not WS. Mine wetpaper pilled up too. The only advantage I found w WS is absolutely no sanding dust. Also w waterborne lacquer I felt WS softened the finish some too.
You do you. If it works for ya, why change the formula? :D I found it interesting that I was actually taught to wet sand lacquer with GooGone instead of water, and then cleaning that up with just a rag and white spirit. I quickly moved away from that to water myself. And I do see your point, I have seen SO MANY videos where people literally bathe the guitar in water in order to wet sand and I get scared they're going to have the same cracking issue in the long run. Personally I just use enough water to wet the paper and the area ever so slightly, wiping away all the residue pretty frequently. I rarely use lacquer finishes anymore due to costs, but I've yet to have an issue.
Again, not saying I won't move away from wet sanding, I just haven't found the micromesh stuff in any hardware store nearby. If it works as well as people say it does, I will certainly give it a go. But for now, I'm just sticking to something that works for me.
-T
Fair enough. Using googone and spirits works on some finishes, but is harmful to others of course.
It’s interesting that you opt to wet sand with minimal water. I’ve never found that very effective personally. If it works for you though, that’s what matters. If you want to try some micro mesh, I think there’s some in the amazon link in the description of the video.
Haven't had issues with minimal water as of yet. And I'm pretty sure if I hit up a hardware store here, I'll find some micromesh. I'm just broke, so making do with what I got. But when I do get some money, I'll be sure to check the stuff out. For some scuff sanding I've also used the Mirka Mirlon Total stuff, which really is a great alternative too, but wouldn't use it on the final passes to get the lacquer flat though.
-T
Yeah, mirka makes a great sanding product.
I tried it and my guitar didn't come out good. I've got scratches everywhere. What did I do wrong?
What grit did you use, and what polishing system?
I used 1500 and then Turtle Wax Rubbing compound, and polishing compound. The guitar came out with shiny spots and spots with lots of scratches.
Ok. 1500 is pretty low. Did you use a polished, or try to do it by hand?
I tried to do it by hand. I put plenty of paint on it. I don't think I burned through it. Should I hit it with higher grit?
Higher grit should help. A polisher would make it easier too. You may need to be more aggressive on the polishing.
If you can polish a fighter jets windows with micro mesh paper then you can polish a guitar with them...
Fighter jets windows aren’t painted as far as I know, but in general the same concept applies.
Do you ever Dry or Wet Sand the last coat of Paint before the Clear Coat is applied?
Yes
What grit do you use for this step prior to adding the clear coat?@@BradAngove
@stephengaulke 800
I wet sand with mineral spirits, not water. Never had an issue.
You wet sand with straight up solvent hey? Haha ballsy move.
I tryed rubbing alcohol once. No problems. But I so far haven't had issues at sanding.
Brad Angove obviously not with all finishes, but it sure seems to work well with nitro.
JD Dixon Yup, plain old rubbing alcohol. I trust Dan Erlewine over this guy any day of the week.
I see you have it together when will we have a sound test
BigManSDMF I agree a sound test
The sound test will come at the end of the series, so probably next Friday.
Dangit. This horror story just happened to me. Beautiful, perfect paint job ruined by moisture in the control cavity from wet sanding. Grrrr......
Sorry to hear that. I really hate it when that happens to people.
Lots of the big guitars company’s like Gibson Fender and other never wet sand there Guitar they used rubbing compounds and a buffer machine to shined up the Guitars and bass for a clean mirror shine that’s it end of story Hmmmmm 🤔🧐🤨🤓🤪🤪🤪
Haha funny how that works.
Evidence of a bit of a tude right there maybe?
Perhaps.
Tude and a slight lack of knowledge. Dangerous combo.
Watch out guys. Confused dude with a keyboard, coming through.
Don't worry, with a bit of legwork, your confusion doesn't have to be permanent. I'm not saying you can't get good results your way, but the assumption that YOUR WAY is the the only right way is misguided and arrogant.
Lol.
Let's hear how they play.
How what plays?
The guitars, doge
The demo of the tele is already up. The LP will be out in a couple weeks.
You wet sand with mineral spirits
That’s an option. It’s just an unnecessary cost, and obviously can’t be used on all finishes.
Brad Angove can mineral spirits be used on a wipe on poly finish????
Yes
I’ve got a guitar with a vinyl graphic on the front face, about 9 coats of poly and I’m nervous about sanding it flat and polishing it. I’m donating it for a charity auction so it has to be good. Thanks for the help!
Just don't do it.
That’s my theory.
That's why you wet sand with isopropyl alcohol. Duh.
That works on some finishes, but will completely ruin others. “Duh”
It’s also entirely unnecessary.
That'd be why you do your research on the finish you are using BEFORE you begin. Been at this a lot longer than you, Sonny.
That would also be why you just use decent dry paper and avoid potential issue.
Ever think maybe some of your systems might be outdated pops?
Hahaha yeah, if it’s not your way it can’t be right hey? That’s a shame. Some old dogs can learn new tricks...some.
Funny, I seem to recall saying something strikingly similar to you in a different comment's thread. Reading comprehension not your strong suit? Or are you just playing I'm rubber, you're glue...