What Reviewing 100s Of Made In China Guitars Taught Me
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
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I've owned a guitar repair & custom shop for almost 40 years. As for major USA brands that don't give the customer what they say they're giving them, I've had personal experience with an inadvertent revelation to me of what you're talking about by one of the biggest names in the business. I was at a sub-contractor's finishing facility overseeing a project for another independent mfr when I came across multi (at least four)-piece guitar bodies that were laminated front & back with either one-piece or book matched veneers and then sunbursted so you couldn't tell. I've also seen guitars made in China for major brands get noticeably better, while non-brands and outright counterfeits LOOK better, but are often way off. Example: a customer brought in a LP Custom-style guitar that he knew was fake, because he wanted us to install a Floyd trem and didn't want to do that to a real Gibson. Leaving aside the fact that many actual Gibsons we've seen over time have been disastrously flawed, this guitar LOOKED absolutely stunning in an eggshell white with gold hardware. Upon opening it up we found the cavities had been cut with - I shit you not - a chisel, and the bridge was 1/4" off from where it should have been! On the other hand, some newer-brand deluxe upmarket Chinese imports have impressed with the quality of execution and attention to detail. PS even though I've been in & around this business a lot longer than you, as a new viewer I'm seriously impressed with what you do/have done. Keep it up!
thank you for your honesty as going into a geetar shop these days and pulling fenders or gibsons off the rack and trying to find the right one is not what it was like before............... A LOT of them really don't feel or play very good and frankly they give me the impression of "cheap". I do have a VOS plaintop that is stunning and a custom strat from 91 that i love ( so I'm spoiled) , but I also have a tokai loverock LS 100 & a breezysound from about 80/81 and those knock offs so good they make my others mentioned feel cheep as well ...lol. Anyways if you have some overseas models worth checking out, we're all ears.
I have quite a few luthier friends so a little insight into your world. I agree, the build quality of major brands is sometimes not very good. As you say bridges off position, poorly fitted nuts etc. I have never come across one of these being a Martin. Some of the Korean and Japanese guitars are outstanding build quality. Typically, Japanese Fenders are hard to beat for this. Chinese guitars are getting better and can be outstanding if the customer will pay for it.
@@bazjones5282 Agreed re: more expensive Chinese, and most Korean & Japanese going way back. I own a 25yr old Korean ES-150 style jazz guitar and it is every bit the equal of a Gibson of similar design.
TLDR.
i've got 14 guitars, given away one, and abandoned another. the one i use for solos is a chibinez my brother bought for me. taken it for work 3 times in 8 odd years. first time he really gave it a work over to make great. other times were for the D string bridge needed shimmying and replacement of fine tuners.
“Specifications are subject to change without notice”
Epiphone yep
The specifications have been altered. Pray I do not alter them further.
😅
Hey Phil, love your contents that you put out. Good to see the 2nd channel pumping out highlights from the pod. Please, do keep up:)
This is exactly the kind of video I want to see. You provided extremely Valuable information to people like me who don’t have the ability to measure, test and inspect multiple brands. Your knowledge base is invaluable to tons of viewers who can’t possibly know that information. Thank you for sharing your data and your opinion in your videos.
I worked in china for 30 years in furniture manufacturing. There is no traceability of wood in china. Chinese versions of timber can be very different to ours eg Chinese oak vs us oak. What you need to know also is that there are 30 different types of Mahogany worldwide all with different density etc. So saying mahogany or any other timber is pretty useless anyway even if Fender say it
Thank you for doing some short videos. It really helps
Thanks for your honesty, Phil!
I appreciate your hard work and information you share on your channel. I have been a musician all my life. I’ve owned all brands, models, and types of guitars. I also restore, repair, buy and sell instruments. I think at this time , irregardless of price, the best quality instruments are produced in Indonesia. Cheers!
Oh someone whom has said the truth. What I see is : hi-end Japanese brands, where ever they're made eg China, Korea, Phillipines, Indonesia or Japan, have strong quality control. Especially those which are assessed by their respective japanese factory luthiers, before being shipped to their various international distributors.
The Eastmans I’ve played have been absolutely exemplary - & I own an SB59v and a T49D/V. But granted not an example of a typical Chinese guitar
Great observations. I have not purchased a new guitar in a long time bc I don’t have the energy to research specs that I’d probably get wrong anyway when they should be boldly and correctly displayed right in front of my eyes.
Absolutely. Eastman are awesome. I own an SB59/v and an acoustic 12-string and both are such a joy to play. They keep to specs advertised because they pride themselves on quality. They don't sell budget instruments and are focused on the mid-high end price range market... and produce guitars vastly superior in value to much more expensive ones.
Dude, hats-off you. Your insightful video was packed with superlative information. I echo comments by @apofire . Jerry took the words right outta my piehole.
You're a one-man guitar-recon unit. Thanks for taking the shrapnel in the guitar commerce trenches - so we don't hafta go to such great trouble and expense.
Having watched this video will likely save me significant dough in the long-run... Much Gratitude to you, brother Phillip.
This is exactly why I always check your reviews before buying new or used gear. Thanks for bringing the truth! Integrity 🤜🤛
I recently picked up a D'Angelico Tour mini DC from sweetwater. Excellent guitar (willing to compromise on big round tone for small body), it's a Korean beauty that is well made and sounds very good acoustically as well as amplified. My one complaint is the guitar arrived 'set up',, it had a string distance from the frets of 1.8 to 2.3 mm. This was documented in the tag I received. Upon examination, de-tuning strings, I discovered the truss rod had never been initially tightened from the factory. No problem for me, after 6 months of micro-adjusting it is perfect. Word to the wise, if you try to adjust that truss rod with string tension on, and its never been tightened; that's a good way to strip that truss rod right from day one.
Regardless of country of origin, when you get stuff that is badly off spec it’s because you’re not dealing with a musical instrument company, just someone who is shipping a commodity to make money today. They’ll do it while they’re making money but 3 years from now that factory will be producing flat pack furniture or whatever is more profitable at the time. There’s people who hate brands like Gibson, but for all of their faults, you’re at least buying from someone who is interested in music and making musical instruments
Agree
But with gibson/epiphone you're paying the history tax because of their overinflated ego. They can't even make you a flawless instrument for $20k so I wouldn't run the risk with one of their "cheap" $5k models. The best guitars I've felt so far are from Japan. You can spend $1k-$2k and get a guitar that blows any gibson/epiphone ever made out of the water, and it'll show up in tune, set up, with perfect intonation. And stay that way. Gibson is too interested in making guitars for doctors, lawyers, and dentists these days to say they're in it for musicians or making instruments. They're art pieces for collectors at best with a few bands still around playing them. A shame too cause they used to be my dream guitar
@@SlyRyFry you’re arguing with a point that I didn’t make 🙄 I didn’t say that Gibson made perfect guitars just that they were an example of an actual musical instrument company compared to these Chinese companies that manufacture commodities that currently happen to be guitar shaped.
@@MattSwain1 Not trying to argue anything, just pointing out the facts so newer musicians don't fixate on overpriced art pieces like I did when I was learning. Gibson does make chinese guitars tho, they call them Epiphones and try to sell the decent ones for over $1.2k. They couldn't get the specs right on a limited run of the custom shop Adam Jones V's. $20k guitar. To me that's infinitely worse than actual cheap guitars from sketchy new companies coming with random specs, that should almost be expected. But for Gibson? That being their highest end of quality control at the custom shop is concerning
@@MattSwain1 Gibson is trendy to hate. That's about it. Most people who carry on about them don't have one, and the 700$ barrier to entry to get something that sounds magical when played loud (that's what they do well) will keep them out.
Even fender can miss represent their products. About six months ago I researched and purchased a Mustang bass. Through that process I noticed that it said it had 20 frets like my precision bass. Every Mustang Bass said 20 frets. I sent off an email to Fender, and I just checked again and the squire is the only one I believe that shows 20 frets now.
I recently purchased a Grote guitar ( Hollow body ) Jazz Guitar with a single P-90 and the specs were extremely detailed. Love the guitar. Unbelievable value.
I have the 'Blues Master'. Real fun.
Love seeing these podcast clips on the 2nd channel!
I have an Eastman acoustic guitar and it’s very well built and sounds great.
Me too 🤙🏼
Eastman is a brand and has a brand reputation for quality and they work to protect that brand and have integrity as well as quality control. I agree they make great instruments. I dont think this is what Phil is referring too but tbat is my take on it. Rock on
I have two Chinese Gretsch made about 10 years apart. They are virtually the same from a build quality perspective, both being surprisingly good. I've never compared the specs to what Gretsch (Fender) says they are. But I have also found as reported here that some of the specifics you can't find. Even when talking with Fender over the phone, they just don't know specifics (or won't tell you).
i picked up a new chinese made gretsch last year, it is very well made. but it is no surprise that the chinese will stick in the cheapest materials that are spec'd or that they can get away with. as a whole, they arent known for integrity.
@@leftyo9589 They're just Communist slaves who do the bare minimum to stay out of the gulags.
@@leftyo9589 How do you know what they "get away with"? Any concrete info? Or paranoia?
I saw this in the original live stream and glad you've isolated it as it is definitely of interest to many out there (including me) - this matters! I have lived in HK since 1982, recorded in studios in Beijing, Shanghai & Guangzhou and for a few years (1998 - 2005) I set up a subsidiary of my music production house in Shanghai at the request of many ad agency execs who made the move from HK to China in the wake of the 1997 handover - essentially all the multi-nationals (Ogilvy, Burnett, McCanns etc.) moved their 'Greater China Offices' from HK to SHG. So . . . I think it's fair to say I have some insight on how things work up there, for better or worse.
China is late to the game when it comes to manufacturing guitars. Back in the late '70s, early '80s 'there was still a 'Made in Japan' stigma held over from the '60s, but companies like SONY, Toyota et all soon put paid to that and to this day 'international brand' instruments from Japan, particularly Fender often outshine their US made and Mexican made peers and 'local' brands like Ibanez, Yamaha and Yairi still live in an isolated and innovative space - I own guitars from all 3. The same can be said for Korea, I believe, although 'local Korean brands' are not really visible, despite some extremely good manufacturing for 'known brands'.
Indonesia seems to have caught the ball and run with it altho having tried many (and bought 2) SE PRS guitars I still find that the internal wiring is a serious concern - ofter they come out of the box with one or other pick-up not engaging at all - this is not an isolated thing, it's common, sadly.
From what I can see of China currently Eastman is in a different league altogether, although I do wonder how much manufacturing is now done in the US given this recent 'Fenderish' trio they are introducing? Either way the Eastman instruments I have played are, on the whole, superb and this doesn't surprise me given the history of the company making fine orchestral instruments. I will be buying an SB 59/v and the Pomona Blonde Juliet when finances allow - I will stick my neck out and say that I really believe some of the early SB59/v's will, in 20+ years time, become 'mini unicorns' in a similar way to late 50s Gibsons. I believe their decision to partner with the likes of Lollar, Bare Knuckles, Gotoh et al in the areas the company does not have expertise in speaks for itself and shows a commitment to delivering overall quality.
Epiphone is, on paper at least, a subsidiary of Gibson USA and kicked off with senior management and decision makers from 'head office' and has steadily built on quality and, to an extent, innovation. I own 4 Epiphones made in the last few years (Casino, 1959 Epi/Gibson 'hybrid', Cantrell 'Wino' and a solid body Double Cutaway. That said, I bought these with the express purpose of 'modding' them. To date I have installed Lollar P90s / Bone Nut / 50s wiring in the Casino and plan Monty's Bethnal Greens, Lollar Imperials and, possible Bare Knuckles + internal wiring options for the other 3. I was a guitar salesman back in the '70s in NZ in the run-up to going pro as a musician (and now Producer / Studio owner) and those 3 years opened my eyes to how Gibson (in particular) was perfectly capable of shipping guitars that when I inspected them at the warehouse before purchase, had to be sent straight back to Kalamazoo. What I also learned, intuitively I suppose, was that as long as a guitar 'had bones' the name on the headstock did not really matter (hence my Epi purchases - all 4 are terrific in terms of build and playability but I'm not impressed with the pick-ups and internals - not 'bad' per se, but not great).
Having worked with many musicians, studio owners, creative and fashion people and what have you in the 3 main cities over the last 25 years I believe that China definitely has the opportunity to up its game - some companies may emerge as having the quality to stand shoulder to shoulder with US, Japan, Korea - others will, sadly, do what many companies there do - go for a quick killing then move on to something else if short term profits do not last . . . so it goes all over the world when you think about it, n'est-ce pas?
Thanks for your insight and honesty, as always 😃
Last year I bought via eBay a secondhand Guild GAD-50 dreadnought made in China. The guitar was built in 2005, when Fender's ownership of the Guild brand was drawing to a close. The build quality is very impressive and importantly, the intonation is spot-on. The sunburst finish is excellent. I'd very much like to know exactly where the guitar was built, and the story behind Fender's decision to manufacture the GAD series Guilds.
When it comes to integrity and honesty in the Internet space, you remain without equal Philip. If you ever sold out you would break my heart 😆
I have to say good things about Gear4Music; the approach of 'British quality control on Chinese instruments' really works. The last two Knoxville Tele-style guitars have no fret sprout, and beautiful finishes. The only caveat is that custom hardware from retailers like Guitar Fetish have to be fitted with small changes to the body.
Living in the UK I'm not hampered by the 'America is best' mentality. For me most guitars are imports and i like to think I can be impartial but I have to say I'm finding many of the comments to this video amusing if unsurprising. I recognise that your comments were measured and factual towards a certain sector of Chinese manufacturing (it certainly wouldn't apply to companies like Eastman) but all a worrying percentage of your viewers are going to take from it is "see I was right all along, even Phil says Chinese guitars are crap' (note I also recognise you wasn't saying they are crap, just not to spec).What I find really amusing though is that you are honest enough to say that American guitars are the second worst, a fact that a lot of commentators chose to ignore. I'm fortunate that I don't have to feel guilty about not supporting the US economy so I can get fantastic quality guitars from Korea, Indonesia and Japan knowing I've saved a load of money and got a better product. 😂
Thank you for great video. Very interesting.
Do you have any overarching view on playability or the overall quality of “those” instruments? That would have been interesting to hear.
I mean a crappy or a low cost guitar can still be decent despite that the specs are off.
THis is a really interesting analysis with some good perspectives. It's interesting to know that you don't always get what you pay for. As a side note, I've dabbled in guitar for a long time, but last year I decided to learn viola. I was short on cash so I started with a $100 unit from a basically unknown Chinese brand, and I have been astounded by how happy I am with it for the price. It sounds good enough to keep me excited about playing, and it even stays in tune in the case most of the time.
I remember when I wanted to learn to play 30 years ago. I had no idea what guitar prices were. Of course I had heard of fender/Gibson/Paul Reed Smith/ibanez etc. luckily I had a friend that played guitar and he steered my to a Mexican Tele as a starer guitar. It was what I learned on and still own to this day. It's nice to have budget options.
A friend of mine once said to a ‘guitar snob’ : “ so, would you rather have a guitar made in Mexico by Mexicans or a guitar made in California by Mexicans? “.
I can say I’ve never bought a guitar online and for good reasons.. first it’s about the experience of going into a guitar store and picking them up and playing them and finding the one that suits you and your taste of weight and neck profile etc and the overall feel of the guitar.. And also the interaction with people and other musicians.. I’ve found out about local bands that way I never knew about.. pedals on the other hand I can understand online purchases it’s electronic and sometimes a local shop may not carry a brand you’re looking for.. So that being said.. that also coincides with guitar specifications maybe that one that’s slightly different feels better to the player and what they like.. just think when Leo Fender was churning out those 50’s and 60’s teles and strats they were all hand made so not one was exactly alike.. And I actually prefer it that way to make an instrument truly unique.. Great discussion and thoughts Phil as always
I don't disagree with your thinking, but unfortunately that's not always a viable option in today's age. There are fewer and fewer brick and mortar stores around today and many of the ones that are around have a limited selection. Some people live hours and hours away from a store with a decent selection, and even still there are only a few areas that have anywhere close to the selection of an online dealer. That's why it's now a "buy before you try" market and that's why the big guys have such generous return policies. You buy a guitar and if it's not exactly what you want, you send it back for another one, or a refund, until you're happy. And it does have an advantage over the old days. Many smaller brick and mortar dealers don't have a very good return policy, if any. Yes you could try out the guitar before you bought it, but if a couple weeks later you realize it's not exactly what you want, then your SOL. If you buy online and decide its not exactly what you want after a few weeks, you can send it back and not lose a dime. There are brick and mortar stores that do have generous return policies but again not everyone lives near one of them.
If I did that, I'd never be able to get a 6-string bass. I've seen exactly two 5-string basses within an hour of where I am. Heck, I'd never be able to get anything from Ibanez without driving a ridiculous distance. Even big brands have rather minimal showing in local shops. I can find a few Yamahas, a handful of Gibson LPs (never anything else), most of the local stock is Fender, Squire, and Gretsch.
Long & Mcquade is weird that way…they’ll carry a company’’s stuff but not everything and if you want one of the things the company makes that L. And M doesn’t have a sku for, that’s it. They won’t order it.
@user-ri3gh6yb5k thats crazy, refusing to place an order for a customer from a brand that you're an authorized dealer for, is basically declining and sale and telling your customers to buy from someone else. There are plenty of dealers that will gladly take your money and order whatever you want.
@@devilsguitaristmusic Right? Shuddup and take my money,lol! Shopping at small shops is preferable. I always try to find a little vendor and only go to big box when necessary. Long and McQuade are a Canadian music store monopoly.
Very interesting . Thank you for your honesty. I enjoy your videos.
2 Parkers on display! Love it!
Eastman is a notable exception.
Most of almost anything we currently buy is made in China. The Chinese can make anything you want, at almost any quality level, pretty much every major brand, whether musical instruments, cars, motorcycles, printers has their products made in China, even prestige brands use chinese components, although the final product may be assembled in the USA, or the EU. Is anyone querying the quality of iphones? no. The issue with the chinese is the minute your back is turned they tend to change things to save money/increase profit, so in the case of guitars, they'll substitute different woods or electronics, or even fretwire. The way to get around this is to have your own quality control people in the manufacturing facility, as almost all major brands do. Without that oversight the product will vary from the original design brief or specification. Exactly he same issues arise with manufacturing in India, turn your back and your motorcycle Bosch fuel injection will be substituted with some counterfeit local equipment (badged as Bosch) the smaller BMW motorcycles are made in India and you can bet your a** that BMW are watching things like a hawk, it's their brand they need to protect.
Phil is a legend!
In EVERY1'S mind! \m/
"Everything on the internet becomes politicized". Good to hear you are apolitical, and your presentations show it.
I bought a Rogue clone type full bodied acoustic/electric for $50 a few years ago. Spent some time filing the frets smooth, adjusting the action, and replaced the strings. My buddy has a whole collection of expensive guitars and basses. He thought my cheap knockoff sounded as good as his $800 Taylor. I am sure his Taylor would last way longer an be worth way more forever. Maybe I got lucky and got the only good Chinese guitar ever made. Either way, for $50 plus $25 for strings, and
The specification mismatch is also because the companies just copy specifications from someone else’s catalogue/website and just publishes that as the specs. The guitar is not necessarily off speck, the write-up is. Or the specs might have been accurate for the previous batch.
And if they churn out guitars with whatever parts they get their hands on, not publishing any detail is just easier.
He didn’t say Chinese guitars are bad. Watch the video again. He also didn’t say USA guitars are better.
Sure, bud. Sure.
"I'm old, so a phone looks like this *holds cradle-phone* not this *holds cell* ." There's a reason I love you, Phil. Stay you. (and if it has to be said on the old comment - me too!)
Thank you for making this video!
My slope shoulder Eastman is better feeling and sounding to me that a Taylor 714. The Eastman T-185 electric is a hollow body solid woods beautiful looking and my go to electric. Eastman is very good. Quality
Eastman is VERY good quality. Go look Fender...
Eastman is a rare exception to the rule.
@@qua7771 Thanks. I own an Eastman E1D, the cheapest guitar they make that's all solid wood (Sapele back/sides, spruce top) and having owned a 1956 J-45, I prefer the Eastman. It doesn't sound like a D-18, even though it's basically a copy of a D-18 with a shallower body. It's easy to play, sounds WAY better than its price, and it has a sound all its own. ANYBODY can make a good $10,000.00 guitar. But Eastman is one of the only companies that makes a great $600 guitar!
Yamaha drums made in China are very highly regarded as well. But of course Yamaha is a powerful company
@@samk4801 I think the reason is obvious. An American production facility is stupid expensive for the same process. The Eastman factory must have someone overseeing their quality.
I find that chinese made Crafter Guitars are very well made and have excellent quality control and finishing. Crafter was founded the same year as Taylor in 1974.
On the wall behind you is a Parker. I wasn't a fan of it's piezo pickup but I loved the design of the guitar: fiberglass fretboard and stainless steel pickups; neck-through-body; ultra-thin concave body; thin neck and a wicked headstock. I tried one out at a music store in Birmingham, Alabama. They said Joe Walsh was in town and had bought one. I don't know if he ever played it on stage. Did you ever review this guitar?
Been playing guitar for 53 years now and took a gamble getting this Gibson ES 335 copy made by Best Choice Products for $139 online. I was actually quite impressed, the action and intonation was right on. The only thing I did was change the strings and raised the pickups.
I have a prs se and a faith venus. Both and made in Indonesia and I think that might be the holy grail of price vs quality control.
I typically don’t purchase Chinese made instruments but recently acquired a Gold Tone ob-3 banjo. It’s made in china but would match American made . It is considerably expensive for a overseas made instrument though.
I have a new Jet JS300 Strat clone and the build quality is UNBELIEVABLY GOOD!
Personally I like Indonesia and China made Guitars for modification platforms... I refuse to pay $2,000 to $20,000 for an electric guitar 🎸🎶.. Cheers 🍻 🥃🥃 🎸
That’s kinda how I feel. Even after adding (your specific choice!) of tuners, electronics, pickups , etc , it is still nowhere near close to the cost of many USA made guitars, which we all know are way overpriced. I think it’s also more fun to play cheap guitars, as there is no worry or concern with using and abusing them!
Indeed👍🏾
@@melbookermusic Yes Agreed 💯😎🎸🎶
Hey Phil IAM in England I agree with what your saying I think they have never heard the word quality control spent many hours getting these guitars playable even some own shop own brands
My Ibanez RG, made in Korea in 2006, officially says it has rosewood fretboard, but honestly, it looks more like macassar ebony…it’s very dark, and also feels different, more slick, under fingers…I have other guitars with rosewood fretboard and it does feel different…then again, this guitar was made just a few months before the famous Cort Korea protests due to workers being unpaid, so I guess there were some bigger problems going on there than caring which wood goes on which guitar.
Is there much difference between an rosewood or ebony fingerboard? It would not be a major concern to me.
@@raymonddixon7603 Rosewood is softer and more porous.
It is not as slick as Ebony either.
I like Rosewood, but I like Ebony better.
I seem to play smoother and faster with Ebony than I do with Rosewood.
All of the classical instruments (violin, viola, etc.) have Ebony fingerboards.
@@beatlesrgear Would not be any concern to me either way. I have played both.
Just checked my three acoustic instruments, tatay classical, a maccaferri copy and a Richwood acoustic. They are all rosewood as it happens, but I had to check!!
As you were talking about Chinese guitars being off spec I was thinking “I can’t imagine PRS being okay with their Chinese guitars being off spec,” then immediately you followed up with “the Chinese made PRS guitars were very close.” I didn’t know you were psychic!
7:00 very true
also they always just call the neck shape something vague like "slim C" or something instead of actual measurements.
God bless Phillip McKnight. Thank you for ...... EVERYTHING!!!
Enjoyed this video as well as your other ones. Not terribly surprised by your findings. I do have a question: What has been your findings with the Epiphone Artist series guitars? Does having the artists name directly associated with the guitar (Joe Bonamassa, BB King, Slash to name a few) result in a higher quality and "in spec" guitar?? Supposedly, Gibson/Epiphone directly manage their Qingdao factory that was opened in 2006. Are we getting a "better" guitar. Your thoughts please? Thanks, Bryan
I agree with you that obtaining reliable specs on guitars that interest me is often difficult. I have more guitars than I need perhaps, but being older I am ready to weed out some that have not thrilled me for various reasons and keep the good ones. I have ordered two budget priced Chinese made models and one, an LP style is beautiful, but what was supposed to be a mahogany body and neck are a rather unstable species of unknown variety. The other, a Tele style made in Indonesia and marketed by a German instrument seller is fantastic. Hit or miss I suppose.
It's not just guitars. Having bought a few inexpensive tech gadgets, I find more and more that many important specs are missing (power use/capacity is a big one). Whether buying a 12V accessory for a car, or a 120V thermostat switch for a heater, this information is important. As to the heater switch, after burning one up that was used well below it's rated wattage (I had to search to find one that published any spec at all), I opened the device to see a relay that couldn't possibly handle the rated current. It seems that this trend could actually be dangerous. Just my .02 worth
Not sure if u read these, but u might wanna look into a Chinese brand called Kepma. They only make their own guitars, are the largest selling brand in China and instituted the most high tech factory you’ve ever seen. Two schoolmates started the company after seeing shambolic small shops doing spec work. Only recently introduced a premium line. I bought one. Impressive. Kepma is a combo of the 2 friend’s first names. Recently introduced in the USA.
I just checked them out. Interesting for sure,big price range from $250 to $2k.
@@user-ri3gh6yb5k two guys who used to work for St. Louis Music went there and noticed everybody’s brother in law had a shop and were making guitars for others. It’s a worthy story to highlight me thinks.
A budget 3/4 (36 inch) jumbo bodied Kepma acoustic with jumbo frets is one of the best acoustic guitars I have ever played. Great sound and feel.
Phil, you’re not wrong. I observed years ago that manufacturers were changing models of electronics faster than Consumer Reports could review them, so much so that a reviewed product was no longer available when the report was published. The pace seemed to change and I don’t think it because newer models would sell better. It appeared to me, perhaps cynically, it simply was better for sales to not be pinned down by reviews.
I bought a $300 clone of a $3000 bass guitar direct from a Chinese factory. I don’t play bass enough to justify $3k but the ergonomics of the bass are perfect and dont mess up my back.
My expectations were low and I planned on doing a bit of finish work on it and replacing the electronics, etc.
All in all, the instrument I received was not bad; it wasn’t great either. As part of the finish work I uncovered some “oopsies”: misplaced drill holes covered by a veneer, incomplete routing work on the pickup holes, some of the frets stuck out enough for me to feel, frets weren’t polished, finish had overspray in some spots, chipping in the finish from bad packaging design, etc.
All these things can be corrected easily, and as I said, expectations were low. All I really wanted was a reasonable starting point and that’s what I got.
If I’d approached a US- based luthier for the same thing, they flat out wouldn’t do it. The specific design is patented, but the patent has since expired and is now public domain. Besides the perceived IP encumbrance, there’s the matter of tooling.
So, yeah. Long story short, I wanted something very specific and couldn’t get it another way without having to pay 10x more. I think there are some benefits to China-based stuff, but it’s important to do your research and set your expectations appropriately.
Great video! Thanks!
Phillip, it seems like your excellent content has led to solid credibility and that in turn leads to even better content. This video is eight minutes of content gold, extremely engaging and informative with zero fluff. Keep on rockin"!
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
My favorite acoustic is a China Yamaha , a Chinese brand that actually produces good instruments , I’ve never played an electric though, the revstars are awesome looking though
I am now retired, but I worked in the engineering field for 43 years. Most of my career was spent working in offshore oil and gas engineering. During those years I spent a great deal of time working with Chinese and South Korean clients and engineering partners. You can never trust anything those people say. They will tell you whatever they need to in order for it to fit their purpose.
My friend bought a brand new Gibson SG from Guitar Center and the nut was cut waaay off. I have read places like Sweetwater check their guitars with a fine tooth comb.
they may be off spec, but are they consistent. If it says the nut width is a, but it is consistently b that isn't as bad as the nut width being all over the place.
Great info.
I bought a PRS SE that had a quite bad neck deformity right out of the box. I sent it back to Sweetwater, and they very promptly sent me a replacement, but that guitar had multiple problems. Granted, none were as bad as the horrible neck on the first, but bad enough that I sent that one back too. I just ended up saying screw it and had them send me a gorgeous, amazing Gibson USA Les Paul Standard that was perfect. Left me with a very bad anecdotal impression of Indonesian guitars. I had an Eastwood/Airline Tuxedo, made in Korea, that was really good, though. It’s just a crap shoot out there, I think.
I think the reason we’re seeing less spec information is because many of these companies have realised that we’ll buy the guitars anyway.. I don’t think it’s for fear of internet reviewer comparisons or mistakes. Plus those of us who do purchases online, there will only be a very small number who go thru the challenges of returning an item, it’s a massive pain. Also. While it’s illegal in most western countries, I also see companies stating requirements for ‘restocking’ fees, so watch out for that!
It’s mainly so they can change the spec (I.e. supplier or fundamental material changes) if something cheaper comes up.
Yes that's definitely part of it. People that buy the guitars that are being talked about are buying them because they're cheap and they're copied designs of more expensive guitars. They're not buying that guitar because it says its made of mahogany, they're buying it because it's cheaper than an Epiphone. But they also allow the manufacturers to swap out materials, specs, whatever else that is necessary to keep production going at the agreed upon proce point.
I returned a bass just a couple weeks ago. It was super easy. Just gotta deal with reputable dealers.
As for restocking fees, I don't see the issue. Unless there is a problem with the instrument, then it's not their fault I no longer want the product. The way I see it is you are paying for the labor and other costs involved in both originally shipping and now receiving the item.
@@Vykk_Draygo was it from a dealer like sweet water or similar? I guess I’m referring more to the direct manufacturer sales that were sawing more and more of. They’re generally not as well schooled in logistics. Aside of that, the restocking fee is not legal in most countries.
That Bad Cat looks great with the white knobs!
What is the Brown Burst Double cut behind your left ear? D'Angelico?
I know you didn’t ask ME the question, but to me, it looks like one of those Semi-Hollows from the Grote Company...
Its a Strandberg
I’m in Electrician I’ve been hanging Chinese made light fixtures for many years, our countries are supposed to have a “standards “ organization to assure everybody’s measurements are the same, their screws are almost 8-32s , almost 10-24 so you’re right you can always tell garbage because it just ain’t the right size.
During my 30 years employed in the construction industry, manufacturing specified products. I was appalled at the total disregard for specification adherence in Chinese factories and was dismayed to hear "just tell us what you want us to put on the box/label/paperwork" even to the extent of "standards" identification markers.😮
Old caveats “ You get what you pay for “ or “ Buyer beware” and “ If someone offers to sell you a $10 bill for $5 do you think someone is amiss?”
I recently had that experience with a Donner LP copy. It was on sale for the ridiculous price of $70 (after a couple of discounts), so I searched for reviews and found nothing but praise from a dozen or so different reviewers. It was supposed to be fully set up and ready to play. The one they sent me had loose strings, so that's lie number one. upon tightening the strings, the neck was severely bowed and a bit warpy. After dealing with getting it playable, I started working on the fret ends which were all scratchy. I found that the fret material was super soft, unbelievably cheap metal, and the binding as well was more akin to chalk than anything else. I checked the intonation, and the High E is still flat with the saddle fully cranked down.
At that point I shoved it in the closet although I was tempted to take it out on the sidewalk and smash the hell out of it.
I figured I might as well get some pleasure out of it by abusing it slowly before turning it into a rat axe. I left comments on every reviewer I could find about what a $#!+ gweetah it really is.
Are they all off by the same amount? Or does it vary from example to example?
This is why I generally treat Chines specs like something akin to creative writing. Phil the truth-teller...
I have a new Firefly and couldn't be happier. For the cost I am getting good value.
My Guess is that most of this is due to communications between Marketing and the Factory. Marketing gets the specs a few months before release date they make up their marketing sheets meanwhile the factory had to make a change and never notified marketing. Once Marketing does find out via customers it is too late as they are on to another product.
Truth bombs people can’t handle. Thanks for your honesty and hard work
If I had two clay bricks and one was made in China, the other in Japan, would it suprise you to discover the Japanese ones were uniform and exactly to specs, while the Chinese ones (which cost a lot less) varied from one to the next?
@@metalfatigue no
Thx Phillip
It is the same in electronics. If Ali states 5W of 50Ahthen you must be glad if it is 1W or 10Ah (I'm an EE working in the electronics business) Most buyers can not measure or test specs and only gets blinded by the ultralow price and wants it to be true.
What stands out to me the most about this argument is that the major builders like Gibson, Fender etc.understand, and a lot of people don't is tbat todays knock offs are very close to the specs of the best instruments made. This is due to CNC, laser scanning, and all the other modern technologies that exist. You can literally buy a $200 guitar the sounds every bit as good as a $3000 guitar. And that's good news for buyers. Not so much for sellers.
I've played a couple $200 Chinese imports and found that while they look great and are pretty comfortable, the frets aren't polished, the tuners and electronics don't measure up to a US made guitar every time.
@Napalm6b Fair enough. The existence of sub par knock offs is not in doubt. I am saying that there are plenty of good ones as well. I have an Epiphone Les Paul that probably cost under $300 new . And I play it just as much as my real Les Paul. It's got Grover tuners, humbucker pick-ups, and the specs are damn near identical to Gibsons. The blue burst flames are stunning 😍 on it.
@@RodCalidge Everyone has different preferences and you're right the difference 20 years ago was way bigger. I got an Epi SG400 with a bad neck in 99. New imports are great for the money but there is a difference. I think the US pro strats/teles are worth 1,600 in current dollars.
I have a £220 made in Indonesia Epiphone Les Paul studio E1 Ebony and it's a great guitar.
It was rather plain looking from the factory, but I'm changing some of the hardware which makes it look a lot more interesting and far less plain. It feels great to play; it feels so easy to play.
I'm really glad what I was sent was one made in Indonesia. The website listing says 'made in South Korea / Indonesia / China / Vietnam'.
The guitar I've had since my teenage years is a Japanese 1994 Squier strat HSS and it's a good quality guitar
I have US, Canadian, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian and Korean guitars in my collections. I love them all.
i'm curious if these MIC quality is consistent or it differs from price points. some high end brands are now manufacturing guitars out of China.
In Japan certain dactories were better than others. Matsumoku is famously coveted.
China is similar, but culturally, Chinese are hagglers vs honor bound craftsmen. If you ask them to make X at the lowest price possible, they see it as a license to send you whatever they feel they can get away with.
Yes, my friggin’ jaw fell to the floor when I saw that Gibson is now making some models in China...
@@jerrygilbert6733 Gibson does not make guitars in China. Those are Epiphones.
Fender, however, were slapping their name on MIC guitars and charging four figures ten years ago.
Look up the "Fender" Kurt Cobain Jazzmaster from iirc 2013 or 2014. $1399 for a relabled Squier with Dimarzios.
I run a small home business repairing and setting up guitars. I am always disappointed when I open up an offshore guitar regardless of the brand.
The same with big brands, disappointed when I look closely at the quality of the workmanship.
Bought a 2010 Gibson SG Standard from a client, it was not working so I got it at a very good price.
The circuit board was cracked causing open circuits between the pots.
Why the heck is a theoretically high end guitar being built with pcb boards?
I pulled the pots, pitched the cheap ceramic cap, wired it properly and added a good quality cap and wa la it works great.
Another detail in cheap guitars is the fack that the pots in hss guitars are almost always of incorrect values.
Why can't they just put the propper parts in, 5k pots and a couple of 470k resistors makes it sound like it should.
My business is based on making guitars play and sound like they would have had the factory done their job properly in the first place.
wa la
Michigan here.. starting a guitar resale business and I target my buys to early years for Chinese made guitars.. mostly pre 2000's. My question is this.. does year of manufacturing make a difference for Chinese factory guitars?
I bought a Brian Moore I-guitar on 2003. It was supposed to be made in Korea. It came and was from China. The body shape was horrible. The curved edge, the actual arc of the body cut was messed up and clearly damaged but still put through all the finish work and assembly. Sent it back. Korean guitar finally showed up (TY Sweetwater) and looked PERFECT!
This is a good video to see. My son recently bought an Epiphone ES-335 from Guitar Center (it was on sale). When it arrived, we noticed the it's made in China. We don't know enough to tell what might be off, but generally it seems like an OK guitar. How have you found China-made Epiphones to be?
It is extremely frustrating, but one of the reasons for inconsistent and/or poor quality in Chinese manufacturing is that workers are generally being paid for piece work and there is no upside for them to stop and flag problems. Workers will literally package unacceptable parts-even obviously damaged or broken product-rather than stopping or even slowing down production. Short of having a full time dedicated QC manager on site, specifications and quality remain hit or miss.
I picked up an Epiphone Slash goldtop with Custombucker's for $799.00 and it is the best Les Paul I have ever played.
What I don't undesrtand is why Squier can't make as many colors and variations of their guitars as Glarry or many of the other brands that make Strat and Tele copies. All the others offer maple fretboards on every color and offer many more colors and some have matching headstocks. Some have more pickup combinations, hardware choices like tremolos or hardtails, Squier gives two or three? Step it up Squier, the competition is smoking you in the variety field!
Yeah, for specs these days you get stuff like: HSS ST-type. Body: wood. Neck: wood. Nut: yes. Frets: yes. Box dimensions... Shipping weight.... "Very good for muicality"
I wanted a guitar that I could leave in open G tuning with no low E string so I could play Rolling Stone tunes without messing around so I purchase an Indio T style guitar from Monoprice. I installed a set of Dimarzio Twang King pickups and even though I don't like the skinny frets I must admit this guitar is not bad at all. I have guitars that I have paid much more for that are only marginally better than this one and I am not worried someone will steal it.
So many Chinese companies, employees don’t give a rip about accuracy or truth. They will say, print whatever sells and better promotes. What is in the package only has to look similar enough to trick us into buying. It is a cultural difference.
I’ve got a couple of Asian guitars that the fret board dot is on the tenth fret not the ninth what’s up with that?
How about Gretsch? I am thinking about a G5420TG but heard they are made in China instead of Korea now.
I think the lack of specs, especially parts suppliers, is Lowest bidder syndrome. If they can get something from another supplier for less, they do. That's why with a lot of things you have to supply serial numbers or VIN numbers. So they can see who supplied the parts on your particular item.
I would actually point to the "specs" themselves in terms of what tolerances the brand company puts in their orders. The cut in price has to come from somewhere.. it's precision. If they order a guitar with a 25" scale length... +/- 1.5" - you might get it at 1/10 the price but you're not getting a consistent product and you're almost definitely never going to be dead on spec.
Now I’m curious what could be off on my PRS SE hollowbody II 😬
I have a mid 2000's one and it sounds great. It could use better tuners and a bone nut and it has a dead note on the high E at 17. But otherwise it is a good budget guitar. I think that was when they first stated the SE models. They might have went downhill since. It's a crap shoot.
My Eastman AC-622 is outstanding. The Taylor version would cost over 4 G’s
To each their own. I would rather spend double, get a high quality guitar and keep American's working. What do you think Eastman would charge if their product dumping put their American competition out of business..?
@@rosewoodsteel6656 nah Skooter I’m not paying double for anything.
As I said, to each their own. When Chinese dumping puts Martin, Taylor etc., out of business, Chinese guitars will be priced higher than their former (American and Canadian) competitors. But hey, we saved a few bucks today, didn't we?
@@rosewoodsteel6656 nah Skooter it wasn’t cheap but it was half the price of my Taylor and it’s way btr.
Skooter?
Hope you enjoy your new guitar, Skwid.@@Skwid-Lives
Phil are you gonna check out the prs se ce24?$499
what phil is leaving out is the wood dont mean anything to the sound because the tone glue that holds the 3 to 10 pieces of wood together, and that glue stops the vibrations. right? glue turns to plastic, basically right? good vibs man
Does that apply to Eastman as well?
No, it's the brands like Ivy and Firefly, the ones that are contracted out, the brands that don't make their guitars. Epiphone, Eastman, Shije, companies like that are the ones that build their own guitars that he talks about where is not such an issue.