Voltage Drop? Mini THERMAL CAMERA Showdown! (TOPDON vs. HIKMICRO vs InfiRay)
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- My 1979 Yamaha XS750 has developed a problem with the charging system.
There appears to be a VOLTAGE DROP somewhere between the rectifier and the battery, causing the battery to not be properly charged, and the ignition coils don't want to fire when using the electric start.
One of the most efficient ways to find VOLTAGE DROP is using a THERMAL CAMERA!
Perfect opportunity to try out 4 AMAZING mini Thermal Cameras that attach right to your SMARTPHONE!
1) TOPDON TC View: **SAVE $20**
www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7LMB22Q?...
2) HIKMICRO MINI2:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWYQ85P1?...
3) INFIRAY T2S+ (manual focus!):
www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5G7DMNJ?...
4) INFIRAY P2 Pro (with Macro Lens!): **$80 OFF use code HollowAuto**
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BG2QC143?...
Enjoy!
Ivan - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Years ago i was a certified level 3 thermographer. I left the petrochemical industry and became a certified master mechanic. You have just scrathed the surface of how those are useful. Example the water leak on the camry hybrid. Even bearings to plugged radiator tubes. And even that is just the beginning. You gotta pull a fuel tank? It will show you exactly how much fuel is in it.
Great reply,i to want to buy and use a camera just for fun.i like to tinker with computers and laptops. And now find myself trying to do board repair most of the time it's SHORTED caps>so i would be 1 away at most.It's a hobby so the cheaper the better and one of this sounds good.
If only those industrial grade thermo imaging cameras were more affordable
@@versatile.mindset yea they are the continental in a room full of pintos. And priced accordingly. Mine cost 37K in 92.
Yup, they're way above the average individual budget.
@@versatile.mindset now i use the klein tools TI250. $300.00 It is a stand alone palm size imager that i use for all electrical circuitry. Roof leaks, leaks from house thermal barriers. Exhaust manifold leaks +++++
The more you use a good thermal imager, the more uses you will find in just about every trade. My first camera was the FLIR One with a crappy 80x60 resolution, was always dead and needed to be charged independant of the phone. I also have a SEEK Pro with a 320x240 resolution but not as convenient as my Klein TI250 which is my everyday carry. The Klein isn't great resolution but is very convenient due to it being a stand-alone device, independent of my phone. The temperature calculation is pretty accurate too.
In the HVAC trade, I use it quickly identify system performace (temperature difference from return air and supply air), duct air leakage, building infiltration, bearing failures and of course electrical hot spots (as you demonstrated). For automotive I use it to look for hot wheel bearings, driveline friction and brake diagnosis. Thanks for the video, Ivan
I bought the same TOPDON just a month or so ago and it came with a dual function cable. The cable can be used as an extension or plug into a computer USB port which I thought was nice.
Thanks Ivan.
The NON FLIR sensor that was brewed outside the US with no Framerate restrictions are impressive.
Yup, now the US's anti-competitive laws are coming back to bite the US manufacturers when they've been outdone by foreign manufacturers.
Can you comment more on this? Do you know who makes the sensors for these other brands? whose restriction is it? Is it a US federal issue?
@stevet.4820 it's an ITAR issue.
I got InfiRay P2 PRO last month and love it so much! INFIRAY P2 Pro would be amazing for home daily things and electronics with that macro Lens.
Ivan, the T2Pro app has min / max and you can fix the scale too - you have to go to settings, and turn on "Professional Thermometry", and then go back to the main view and turn on the "Scale". I don't know why they hide that behind 2 different settings - it's really dumb. Just like it's dumb that the app for the T2S+ is worse than the P2pro when they're both from infiray, and they could be using the same software for both (but each app is restricted to the device ID it's meant to work with). An InfiRay makes the IR core that's in all of those cameras - why they don't put a little more effort into their app to fix the few things that need fixing baffles me.
Thank you Ivan. I appreciate your real world reviews and trust your opinions.
Very good comparison with an actual problem to demonstrate what each camera will do, especially for ease of operation (user friendly).
Great side by side test Ivan. I haven't used a thermal camera yet, but it seems to be a useful tool for a multitude of testing processes. Thanks for sharing !
I think the starter motor shaft bushings could use a couple drops of oil....
Excellent tutorial on the flir cameras on variety of them, great showdown! I learned a lot on those you showed! I enjoyed your fixing the problem and cleaning them up! Now i feel i want one lol!!
I never really understood what you meant by "voltage drop" in previous videos.
I now understand that increased resistance in a circuit will lower the voltage, which will cause a problem for whatever is at the end of a circuit, like a motor or something that needs an exact voltage.
Thanks, Ivan! 😊
Thanx for all the great diagnostic videos! I've been a shadetree mechanic for 50 years, but had no clue on the new bus systems. You make it easy.
I was in need of a thermal camera, decided the Topdon fit my needs. Just an update, Topdon must have seen your review, because it now comes with an adapter (not USB-C extension) for camera to PC USB (mentioned in another comment below). The software has been updated as well, you can now do fusion images with the standard camera.
Really appreciate this review I've been wanting to pick up one of these phone connected cameras for a while now.
I've used handheld FLIR cams for home inspections, great for checking water intrusion and doing energy efficiency reports. As well as drone mounted FLIR for roof inspections. Incredibly useful tech
I got the topdon last month and I love it. I haven't used it too much, but like you said, great to have in your arsenal when you need it!
This P2pro is much better than so many other cell phone thermal imaging cameras on the market. But it is too low-profile. There are not many videos of relevant reviews that can be found online. Thank you for making such a great video!
I just purchased the TOPDON for work, thanks to your review.
Love the Velcro hack! Thank you for the Idea!
Interesting diagnosis, thank you for sharing
Very clever use of Infrared as another diagnostic tool. I think this type is more versatile than a stand alone unit. The difference in connectors on the Yamaha and modern automobiles is striking! That open wire side of the connector positioned vertically is inviting any moisture to enter. It sounds like the starter could use a little attention judging by the sound it makes. I noticed that your left muffler has corroded some because of the sheet metal and hose clamps.
This is great: A real-world comparison. I badly miss the FLIR I had. Thanks to this review, maybe I can realize some options. Thanks ivan
great video, also a milliohm meter is great for voltage drop troubleshooting as well . also great for solar system installations- keeping battery connection resistance low!
Sir u always give very informative knowledge that's a lot
Excellent review, Thanks will be getting a TopDone, I was waiting for someone to do this. 🇺🇸👍
I just bought the TopDon TC100 and mine came with a cable. Great video, man.
Good general comparison of equipment. Naturally there are some that will prioritize features differently, like price vs quality. Overall, great info, thanks Ivan.
The other day I was using the oscilloscope on some of my classic Honda twins and now I'm bringing home my thermal camera from work !
No issues to speak of but it will be fun
Seeing the terminal with the corrosion reminds me of my 1200 Goldwing and the issues that the charging systems had. The recognized fix was to remove the block and hard wire the connections, adding a relay for the battery circuit so that it received the total voltage from the regulator (which fixed a lot of other issues that series was having since they used the same alternator as the 1100 on a bike that needed quite a bit more voltage power).
Interesting comparison. I'd seen one in a parasitic draw video, but didn't know there were choices. Thanks!
Interesting thermal camera comparison! Really liked the Infiray TS2+, with adjustable focus, but the software...
Good case study of current overload on a perfectly good JST bullet-ring connector (tried to find the max recommended current, but a quick search scored nothing)! Probably has been like that from factory and only became a problem when the rectifier connector got green crusties and added a secondary voltage drop. The thermal images make it so easy to spot these problems :-)
I learned more than I wanted to in your vid.
I had the XS750 triple shaft drive, it was fairly rapid and handled very well
It just might be the most perfectly balanced universal motorcycle :)
Good info, Ivan, thanks. On the voltage drop- the crimp at the back of the connectors is highly suspect. Acid can easily intrude and corrode the wire and pins/blades, whatever. Nice bike, btw. Kudos on all your work.
Yes indeed, was fun to watch
Good review...Yes they are getting better year by year. I liked the test example on the Yamaha wires. My second repair on the Yamaha would be the starter...sounds like something maybe the bendix needs some TLC lube or other.
My cousin repairs underwater and damp area electrics. These thermal cameras can be very helpful in that line of work.
Used a Flir handheld last 15yrs or so of work. so many uses besides what you show. a cold draft in the house and more.
Yep! The most dramatic case I saw (ended in court), was its use in a construction quality complaint, where it was easy to demonstrate the poor insulation in the main walls.
My avatar was made with that camera :-)
Nice review and diag. I have the Topdon TC004 stand alone thermal camera and it's pretty nice.
brilliant. another great Ivan video.
Great video showing how and when to use one of these devices!
All of them seems capable enough for their purpose. If you dont mind I'd just like to correct you on the sftware for the P2Pro. I own one for about a year and usually use it to detect wildlife (or other heat sources) and the app does show min, max and average temperature as well as option for several points of reading throughout the screen (randomly selected by user) and also has the capability for "split screen" (or thermal image and phone's camera image simultaneously).
By the way, nice classic bike! Safe riding and cheers!!
Nice video and great looking bike!
Hi Ivan, this connectors can be changed by new ones waterproof, PA-66 or better, It will be a good improvement to your ride, less pron to failures. also renew the wiring
INFIRAY P2 Pro would be amazing for electronics with that macro Lens.
The Bees Knees! You don't look as old as I am my friend. Great video information my friend.
Hi, Ivan. I own the topdon camera and i think it's great. I purchased it to help seal up drafts in my house , it was very useful. Its also on standby for auto diagnostics. Do you suppose we can get an email campaign going for topdon to develop a macro lens ? Hope so. Thanks for the great content you provide.
Was just working on my 81 Honda 750 F. Always a cold blooded mother . It would take a while for a 4th cylinder to kick in . Easy to check which carb is slow by checking header temperatures. FYI it wasn't charging , After checking rectifier , diodes,and rotor , all good , I noticed that one of the brushes was worn down . New brushes , all good now . Peace bro . Jack
IR can be a real good tool in diagnostic work. It does have some limits though. We trained a lot with them in the fire service. They were big handheld monsters, these days they make units attached to your helmet. I have a 79 XS1100 Special myself. Rode it all over the country including up to Alaska and ran a few iron butt events as well. It sets in storage now.
I just bought an Infiray p2 pro and it's so frigging cool. Can even see the studs in the wall just after sunset as they hold more thermal mass being denser than the wall panels. So many other use cases.
OMG! I bought a silver and red XS750E in 1978. Quit riding when I hit 60 and sold it. It sure wasn't perfect but it sure was fun.
Great video I just got the topdon today after watching this video and it now comes with a USB c to USB c/USB a dual head cable, also the app has thay same fusion feature its called image in image, clear winner in my opinion
I used infrared camera MANY years ago. (It cost over $5000 and had to be cooled with liquid nitrogen to work in 1980s) As electronic tech at IBM, I was asked to isolate short between power/ground on a newly designed 8-layer printed-circuit board (about 2ft x2ft size) It found the design-fault within a couple minutes.
Hikmicro has now also a module with focusable lens, nevertheless i just bought my first IR-camera, the infaray P2. App has customizable scaling, it can have automatic low and high point, or custom points, image is flipable, rotable, it can record video with sound, etc, for me it has everything working right. I fixed the cable on a small stick with a tiewrap. CE-marking is missing on the module.
Thanks Ivan!
Man, that brought back memories. I had one just like it. I wish I had kept it, but life got in the way. Marriage kids, etc.
Very interesting comparison video, after watching it I think I prefer the P2 Pro
Good job.
nice bike im sure you enjoy very much
These are interesting, better resolution than my Klein TI250, about the same price. Lots of good options in this field right now.
The Infiray app has a temperature scale and min/max points, you just gotta turn them on in the app settings
Great video Ivan, definitively the TopDon camera is the best in my opinion. if you want to solve all the "heat" produced by the connectors on the bike and reduce the voltage drop to nearly zero, you have to dissasemble the "faston" connector terminals and with a pliers gently close the female end of the terminals to improve the tight fit of the connector when plugged in. Also clean them very well. Do it to one by one cable on each connector taking the terminal out and then reinstalling it again. Then you will notice the connectors are much hard to plug in together, and the heat and voltage drop will dissapear. Do it on any of the connectors that show some heat in the camera and you are done. I did it on my Honda CBR1000F some time ago and now it starts and charges the battery way more better.
🤝.The moment when you have
Ymaha R1 (2002) Is the author of the channel a fan of two-wheel speed 😎🌪️My first motorcycle at the age of 15 IZH PLANET 5.
Thanks for the informative video Ivan!
79 750 triple!! The only brand new motorcycle I have ever bought. Great sound great torque. Put 20,000 on it the first year.
Wow that's impressive!
Ivan, do any of these thermal cameras run off the phone battery? I know some of them have their own internal batteries that need to be charged.
Any chance that you can mix and match hardware and software?
Nice to see you working on your own vehicle for a change :-D
Now what are you going to charge yourself ha ha 😀
Ivan, you have reviewed the FLIR one before. How do you feel it compares to the Topdon?
FLIR is not useable because the battery is always dead xD
correct me if I am wrong, but i think, the AGM battery is not compatible with this type of charging system. It may working, but the AGM battery has a different charging strategy.
I love my Topdon Camera! I'm surprised yours didn't come with the extension cable though as mine did.
_FMG_
What accessories are or are not included with these cameras seems to change from day to day, and depending on which store on Aliexpress or which other reseller you get them from.
I think the fact that Ivan owns a Yamaha motorcycle is where the name "MotoYam82" comes from. Great video!
Hah yes that was for my 1982 Yamaha Seca 750 that took me cross country and back in 2008. I wish I had this 1979 XS750 back then... Much classier bike and more comfy long distance machine 😎
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I knew there was some connection. I am wanting to say you did that cross-country trip with a group as I vaguely remember a picture. You are an interesting dude!
"The bees knees"? Really, is that how russians speak? Seriously, Love your shows and very glad you are here!
You need to take a closer look at the P2 pro software because it has more features than I think you are aware of
Thanks for your reply. Yeah that's right. It's deisel direct injection. I think I may have found the problem, well I hope so anyway. Found a missing power to the pcm. It comes from the glow plug relay on pin 7. Pins 1 & 2 are control side and 3 & 5 load side. Pin 3 being ignition and internally linked to pin 7 pcm power. There's battery voltage on pin 7 but a 9.5 volt drop from pin 7 to pcm. Does that sound like that could be the cause of low supply voltage to injectors? Literally getting around 5 volts supply to injectors and multiple miss fire on all cylinders. At the pcm, continuity test showed all supply pins are linked together internally while pcm control are separated. Michael C
Infiray is the brand I trust for years, and I also recommend for yall!
0.5v volts is still kind of high voltage drop over such short cables. I think should be less than 0.1v in that kind of situation on a motorcycle.
Maybe it has a fuseable link in line and thats causing the additional voltage drop.
@@JackS425 Could be old corroded/thin cables or bad connections. Isn't the wire from the alternator also fused in cars? I think I measured less than a tenth of a volt of voltage drop in my car from the alternator and also all the way to the pcm when I was trying to figure out some electrical problems. I don't know much about the electrical systems of motorcycles, but seems to me it should be even easier to do as the distances are so short.
the heat generation is of course Resistance * Current. but then there is the other issue regarding Temperature, the heat dissipation, size color and air flow. It helps to understand these details. However, using thermal imaging even without numeric data consideration can be just very handy. As a side note, I have had a Flir 1 already a number of years. To me its worst behavior has been critical dependency of fresh charging. Otherwise, it has difficulties establishing phone connection. And yes, it does not get its power from the phone, it needs separate charger connection.
I highly recommend using an old phone with these thermal cameras. I had the Flir version of one of these and it would often lock up my phone. I got a new phone and when I eventually went to use it, it crashed my phone. My phone never worked right again and I had to buy a new phone.
I later bought a Flir C5 because I want it to have its own screen and not mess up any phones in the future.
Can you switch the cameras?
One little nit about your comment about the battery: it will charge to 12 volts only, and cannot be charged to any other voltage. The voltage is a function of the chemistry of the battery, and aside from internal resistance if it is charged at all it is charged to 12 volts. What is happening in your case is that it is not charging effectively, so when you go to draw a current, the internal resistance is higher so the cold cranking amp capacity is reduced.
Did I see the hot image of the cylinders in the reflection on the laptop screen.
Velcro loops are the soft side. Velcro hooks are the rougher side.
Only the Infiray is available for iOs.
All hail thermal energy
32:10 Horse whinnies when you say "ah crap". Like it's laughing at you.
Like Project Farm but with a diagnosis and repair.
I have a Seek COpact Pro and I love it so far. I had tried the Amazon 120 dollar special and its junk hardly able to recognize anything. THe Seek is a phone add on and that part of it kinda sucks but also its a good unit. Had I known there is a phone I cannot remember its name but its around 400 bucks with a good thermal camera built in.
I think its a "Doogee" S98
Bigclive did a video on it.
Can you use the topdon app with any of the camera?
No each camera has it's own app. Although the Topdon app does work with the InfiRay P2 Pro :)
Horses saying neigh to Infiray PS2 pro is hilarious! Two thumbs up.
Ivan would you ever say how much you charging for diagnoses. I'm not a tax man just curious. Sometimes I think that your diagnosis time and parts are more expensive than value of the car.
Hi Ivan. Can you show us how to do a volt drop test on injector circuit where both supply and ground come straight from the pcm. I know that the circuit needs to be loaded from your videos but seeing that the pcm is involved, can you show us how to perform the test safely with just a basic multimetre and test light. I know how to do this test with a load that is permanently on like a light but not sure if it will be different with injector circuit because injectors are pulsed on and off. Do we just disconnect the injectors and connect a bulb across the terminals??? I'm an electrical engineer/electrical inspector by trade and you have definitely taught me more than I learnt in college all them years ago. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us. Regards: Michael C
Hmm are you talking about GDI direct injectors? Test light is not very useful on those. You need to use a 2-channel oscilloscope to monitor both HIGH and LOW injector drivers. Then compare to a known-good :)
The TOPDON TC View is now $70 off. Just ordered one for myself.
my CAT S62 Pro cell ph has FLIR is in the cell ph and works graet
Hello Ivan from Australia 🙃
How many Kms has your Yamaha done?
Only 8500 miles... It's still a baby 😁
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Wow 8500 miles nice and a smooth ride with the shaft drive , very cool Ivan🍻
Half a volt drop across a foot of wire? That's ridiculous! There should be a couple of hundredths of a volt drop more like it, & NO temperature rise in the wiring except maybe near fuses. Wiring faults just waiting to happen.
You got a dried out bearing in your starter motor too by the way mate!
wanted to check prices and every link goes to an unavailable item
I'm going with Infiray off the bat!
The TOPDON TC001 currently has a $70.00 off coupon. At $230.00 it's a no-brainer.
This is the story of the cobbler, whose kids had holes in their shoes. Poor Ivan with the green crusties in his connectors.
When he said it’s not charging to 14.5 he’s not referring to the battery being able to charge to that voltage. A good healthy battery can hold a charge up to 13 volts. Anything over 12.65 is surface charge. He was only pointing out the difference in voltage at the rectifier versus at the battery terminal. Same as checking charging output on an alternator charging system. You check at the back of the alternator and at the battery…typically within half a volt difference is acceptable.
Topdon have an updated version the TC002, your current version in this comparison appears to be the TC001. Ignore me I'm an idiot sometimes, I blame old age. The TC002 is for iOS and the TC001 is for Android. They also have a TC003 which is a wireless stand alone with large screen
Hey Ivan, does Topdon have a version that works with IOS?
I just put a Topdon TCView for IOS in my saved cart. It comes with a cable.
The "fusion" feature improves IMAGE resolution a lot; FLIR offers it and does it well.
If INFIRAY TS2+ improves the app, that lens setup makes them easy winner. Crisp images on a densely populated PCB very helpful when searching for a single, shorted, SMD component.
Another useful software feature is to be able to filter temps. Sometimes the scales are useless due to something in the field of view is MUCH hotter than the area of interest, and glowing like the SUN, and subtle changes of interest become invisible.
In late 70's, my buddy had a wrecked, Yamaha 750, and I tried to adapt the running gear to a two-seat go cart. Luckily the challenge exceeded my skill level, i lost interest and sold the project... OR i might not be alive to tell this tale 😂. We were very reckless with our Briggs & Stratton creations, and this would have been 1000x more dangerous! 💀
The app for the T2 pro allows you to fix the scale of the gradient colors to a range narrower than the full temperature range (and it has min/max temperatures too as part of the scale, but you have to turn it on in settings). I don't get why the app for the T2S+ is so poor when they're both from InfiRay, and they basically both use the same hardware (but with different USB device IDs which is what restricts one app from working with the other camera)
@@gorak9000: I just checked the website; these guys are real players in the infrared game. Gotta spend some time there (and maybe some money).
@@hightttech They're kind of the king of the hill when it comes to non US (thus non frame rate limited) IR cameras at the moment. Most all of the non US thermal cameras are using an Infiray sensor / camera core, and basically a different plastic enclosure / USB ID / software.
Like Crazy 💩 I did as a kid I put wheels in place of roto tiller tines on a front tine garden tiller also installed a pivot in the middle behind the control with a seat so it pivoted in the middle it was Absolutely insanely dangerous but it would really MOVE 😅
Currently unavailable for all of the cameras.