A couple notes on some previously sunset weapons: - 21% Delirium would probably fit into high B tier as a non-enhanced rapid with Overflow/KT - Wendigo GL3 would be at most B, probably C, since Disorienting Grenades now reduce HGL damage significantly after the damage distribution changes - It Stared Back would be A tier - according to Mossy, Y1 impact swords have a hidden damage bonus which puts them up there with Adept Impact adaptives, plus it has Relentless and Whirlwind, and doesn't really need enhanced perks Also, Doomed gets 2 stacks of Precision Instruemnt per burst, not 1 (thanks to SpiderReviver for the correction).
I whanna ask you something. Whats better lair handshake or class item lair handhake. I know you dont get heal but you have advenge with 1 extra exo perk on classitem. I am still confused with one
@@thisone98 i test on GM if i dont heal in group of adds with no kill i will die. Becouse of healing i can keep punching and healing until he dies. Thats the reason on lair. On class itrm i must kill. Thats make diffecult on end game
First thing I thought of when I saw the video was un-sunsetting, would be interesting to see if there’s any old rolls worth mentioning for primaries. Definitely been some power creep as far as perks go so I don’t expect there to be too many (not to mention not being able to get a lot of them still so the info’s really only useful for people who saved them) but it would be interesting to see!
Take aways from this video - rockets and HGLs have been powercrept by linears and you should dismantle them - only heavy you need and should use is thunderlord
If you’re a Void Titan running that aspect that heals on volatile proc, you can actually get enough healing combined with a well to out-heal the witness’ attacks.
@@degenerativewalnut9079 ngl, I enjoyed the times when Rockets were used for pure DPS, while linears were for getting total damage with a bonus of having more reserves. However, with ammo buffs and GLs gaining a huge damage increase, GLs have taken up the mantle of total damage while also making the gap in DPS with rockets much smaller. Linears don't really have a niche anymore, other than being a "safer" option to not blow yourself up with. Theoretically this is a nice balance in weapon choice, but in reality I feel bad for myself if my team misses out on boss HP thresholds just because I wanted to stay alive in DPS.
On the topic of rockets, I have actually been enjoying Palmyra with my stasis crystal spam stasis titan build this season. Hakke breach and explosive light can break stasis crystals from VERY far away, allowing for some large aoe damage. Coupled with the ease of use of precisions, it makes for a fun little interaction
Love your content. Your tier lists/sheets helps me to know which weapons, perks, etc to focus on and also helps for vault cleaning. Waiting for your primary update ... and beyond! Good work!
The fact they took away the 2 burst to get full doomed petitioner PI stacks is crazy to me, especially when bns exists. You have to actually hit all your shots otherwise you lose the perk instantly too
Who are you? I accidentally stumble upon this video and it’s the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. For years I try to do somethjng like this but never finish it. Not to mention you’re on another level in terms of knowledge. Very impressed.
Its still bizarre that they have the data to see linears usages rate being low and noticed doom was doing mad good with precision instrument then nerf that to the ground and now nobody's useing them again
Damn, the new seasonal MG just reminded me how badly they destroyed Deconstruct. If it was prenerf, I would use it for the ammo efficiency even if it was moved to the 4th column. Now that they're putting it in the third column, there is 0 chance they'll ever revert the nerf :(
Faith keeper gets extra damage against vex enemies if you take the artifact mod. This effectively undos the precision frame damage nerf if you're dealing with vex enemies. It's a pretty solid option at least for this season
I wonder how much enhanced air trigger boost crowning duologues reserves? I'm about to get a rocket with air trigger deconstruct just for rocket spam lmao.
@@TheAegisReliclol. Quick question my season of arrivals falling guillotine relentless whirlwind is still fine right? I just saw that on the chart it’s specifically the brave version and want to know if I should go out of my way to get a brave one?
@@salmonbamminfish2925 Frenzy is a 15% damage buff. You can find the relevant falling guillotine entry and divide the sustained dps value by 1.15 to get what would be its dps. Without frenzy, the dps is lower than spamming light attacks on a relentless+whirlwind 'The Other Half' and only barely above optimal Lament which doesn't even get wolfpacks.
@@SpiderReviver ok thank you for the insight genuinely but if I’m not doing like what master herald encounter or lowman stuff is it still worth the effort of farming onslaught. I guess I could just wait and it wouldn’t be that painful because they’ll be reintroducing the targeted brave drops. Again thanks for the info but I’m not super into the meta so I don’t really know what to do with what you gave me.
LINE IN THE SAND has clown cartridge and reservoir burst and importantly the origin trait cast no shadows can bump up the mag to 15 SHOTS and everything above the base mag has reservoir burst on it and it keeps the ammo while stowed so i think it's an S tier LFR especially for arc surge and sometimes i find them useful if i have an encounter where being very far away is necessary and im shooting at flying bosses or champs so rockets don't cut it
It's not bad but I don't account for artifact mods (CNS overflow) when I rank and even if I did RB isn't as good as some of the other damage perks available on adaptive bursts.
@@TheAegisRelic it's a 5 percent difference between it and bait and switch,for sure bait is better for overall dps but i think for overall utility in most activities even some gms that require a precision damage weapon it's very good as you can have 7 reservoir shots ready at all times with no set up Not a dps weapon for sure but great utility non the less and i find it a Great arc option i just thought it was important to mention this interaction
My Pro memoria with enhanced desperate measures and hatchling on my strand warlock has been absolutely cooking, double strange surge, overcharge mod from seasonal artifact, mines a level 98 so far 😅
Love Hatchling Pro Memoria on Swarmerslock too, it's just so much fun. I personally rock Frenzy for the added reload speed because you do need to manually reload if you run Hatchling, def recommend giving that a try if you haven't!
I changed my crafted Song of Ir Yut from Sword Logic to High Ground. I do not regret, High Ground is much more viable after the buff, it's a slightly Weaker Rampage with Longer timers and 2 ways of procing (kills or high ground), very versatile.
I personally have my Pro Memoria crafted with Recon and Frenzy because it's just nice having a free 15% dmg buff in combat after having used my special ammo weapons or such to do something in combat. Pro Memoria is just really fucking good frfr
Do you think for next season you can add, where to acquire or if they are even acquirable so I can send this to my new friends to the game. It would help them hunt for good weapons when I’m not leading them on some grinds.
Faith keeper is probably the best choice for Prismatic Titans using star eaters/ eternal warrior class item, damage done is pretty good with the boost and the tracking is nice for consistent damage
i dont think the extra ~3% damage from having 4x surge over 3x surge is worth the ~15% loss in damage per rocket from precision frames over adaptive/aggressive frames
I think hammerhead should be S tier because of its unique combo of rampage + killing tally. Thats a 73% damage bonus after 3 kills, the burst ad clear on it is amazing, especially when theres a major or miniboss surrounded by ads.
Bit surprised that Bait doesn't get a mention on Summum considering how it can be annoyingly unreliable/involved to keep Chaos Reshaped live on the most notable sword bosses (Herald and LFG aka non-surrounded Crota). I've run both a decent bit lately, and especially if you're on a sword role on Crota, I found myself losing CR a lot. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Whirlwind + Wolfpack interaction removed too. Also, specific old outliers like It Stared Back and Wendigo should be on there IMO.
@@Zasz33 Just to be clear, microcosm doesn't get a damage boost against tormentors. It's just an insanely good and easy option for killing tormentors. Izi, forerunner, most guns paired with divinity, and supers are also great options.
@@SpiderReviverit does, kimd of. Tormenter healthbars are counted as shields so it does bonus damage, combine that with it being able to crit and you got a monster
21:13 bro forgot about the era when every Linear Fusion was Crooked Fang-4fr for like 2 years after Forsaken (and also the Red War linears). Not that those weapons are even in the running, they'd be down there with Threaded Needle nowadays but still
I grinded back when it first was introduced off my ass for 30-40 adept unwaverings before getting subsistence with killing tally and incan. I still feel this is an exotic tier lmg and unmatched by anything else. I believe it still belongs in S.
idk if this is a good example but with prismatic hunter foetracer i was able to hit almost 5 million on the final boss of warlords with pro memoria. it is alright, but the inclusion of prismatic just makes damage so much better now.
I got exactly one Pro Memoria and it had Reconstruction/Bait and Switch. Honestly I’ve yet to be given a non-god roll Pale Heart weapon, but I just finished Final Shape so there’s time for junk 😂
is there a particular reason why dimensional hypotrochoid (the other compressed wave HGL) is down in C tier despite having field prep + chain reaction just like hullabaloo those perks aren't listed for it in the spreadsheet so maybe someone just goofed and didn't see them or something but it don't make sense lul
I think the main notable difference is that hullabaloo gets cascade point which massively boosts its dps. Hullabaloo is also arc which is generally a better element than stasis. But he definitely should add field + chain since hullabaloo has them listed.
@@SpiderReviver yeah hullabaloo probably still should be above it since it has a more versatile set of perks and arc is a more useful element, but hypotrochoid should probably be at least mid or high B tier since it’s craftable and has nano rockets
I view compressed waves as a hybrid between add clear and DPS while still being pretty ammo efficient, and Hullabaloo meets both goals a lot better than Dimensional does, Nanotech is cool but craftable status isn't an advantage if both are enhanceable for the purposes of my spreadsheet
@@TheAegisRelic yeah craftable status shouldn't make a difference and it doesn't really make it easier to get a certain roll since neomuna weapons are ass to farm lmao still though i don't think the gap between hullabaloo and dimensional is quite that massive (for add clear at least, hullabaloo definitely has much better perks for dps) at the very least i think field prep/chain reaction should be listed as noteworthy perks for dimensional if they are for hullabaloo
Linears are in the dirt right now and I’m kinda sad about it. Cataclysmic was my old reliable back when they were good. Look how they massacred my boy!
I believe you can also use the exotic khvostov with pro memoria and get the dealer's choice x2 buff. I heard it also works with ace and microcosm, but not 100% sure on that
Only ace of spades, khvostov, and still hunt work with dealer's choice. Compendium has the correct info regarding which weapons work. According to somebody in the destiny science discord the amount you get is 1% at x1, 2.5% at x2, and 3.5% at x3. For reference base kills are 0.75%, base bad juju is 1.55%, thresh is 1.75%, and x5 string of curses is 2.75%. Not sure how accurate that information is, but it sounds pretty reasonable.
It was able to perform decent double duty for half a season when volatile rounds was bugged on it and didn't have a cooldown, and so its damage was hugely buffed by the constant volatile explosions. But it's fallen off since then.
If it wasnt for the Bipod-EL swap, would Crux still be the best GM rocket in the game? If not, what would be? Theres so many very similar looking rolls and I don't know the frame differences well enough to decide on my own LOL
@@Fabledtable true I was just trying to shorthand for "champ killing bipod rocket" but that backfired next time I should just spell out the whole thing lol
The 1 stack per burst for precision is wrong o belive, it has only taken me extra shot to get the full buff on doomed partitioned, down from two full burst
your biggest sin is having royal entry at the bottom but considering faith keeper A. Their offerings are WAY too similar to substantiate a three tier difference!
When you mention crux termination, you mention bipod swapping. Does that mean having bipod and explosive light in the 4rd column? I'm trying to find a swap option for my cloudstrike and got clown cartridge and bipod. Wondering if I should keep searching or not
I think Throne cleaver and Crown splitter (I think that’s the name, I’m talking ab the 2 titans swords) should be moved from D tier. They’re not meant for DPS and meant for a niche scenario with stronghold general play. It’s not like stronghold is an S tier build but it’s not even close to bad either. They should probably be in like C or B tier with that regards since they’re the only sword that works that well (that’s not lament) for stronghold gameplay.
In optimal endgame play, swords are generally used either for boss damage or for movement, and those swords fall flat on both fronts, and this list is designed to represent optimal endgame play
@@TheAegisRelic I have to respectfully disagree on these 2 swords, stuff like solo GMs or dungeons where people use stronghold (again not like it’s OFTEN, or the meta of them but a still very viable build even if a little slow) is endgame. I can see and definitely agree as to them not being anywhere near S or even A tier. But I don’t think they deserve the “basically useless if you have any other sword in the game” meaning that D tier gives them.
I use a holster with the Hammerhead, it reloads the mag faster than Reconstruction, but doesn't overflow of course. As for damage, even if you run three surges for lmg or one scavenger and two surges, Hammerhead does much more damage even without that one surge anyway. As for overflowing the mag, I feel like if you're shooting 150 rounds at something in a row, then you're not supposed to use the lmg for that. Edit: I didn't mean that I use the Hammerhead for dps, guys, you're allowed to use surges even outside dps phase
So with the emphasis on rockets leaning towards an ad-clear role now, why don't you (seem to) consider Chain Reaction as a desirable perk? It did get buffed on heavy weapons recently.
Bipod is typically same column as Chain Reaction so you would have to give up the ammo increase for it. Also, ad clear with rockets typically means somebody giving you wolfpack rounds. Wolfpack rounds are so good for ad clear that the extra shots from bipod far outweigh the chain reaction portion. Haven't used Chain Reaction on a heavy, but compendium says that it deals 109 damage in a 3 meter radius. For reference, firefly is 104 damage. I'm pretty sure compendium has the updated number, but if it's more than 109 it could be a good option for ad clear.
@@SpiderReviver Well, two things you should note: Enhanced CR does increase reserves (by at least 1 rocket) and iirc, wolfpack rounds kills can proc chain reaction.
Usually rockets with wolfpacks just straight up kill anything that would benefit from the small CR damage in my experience, and like Spider says you're competing with Bipod which is a hard ask
A falling guillotine with frenzy+whirlwind would do more than that roll. And other sources have confirmed that vortex swords in general aren't great. Falling guillotine is hard carried by being the only(?) sword with notable double damage perks. Without double damage perks, most swords edge out falling guillotine (even including the buff from expanding abyss). This is even more true for surrounded swords or summum bonum getting chaos reshaped which are both larger buffs than whirlwind. It Stared Back (and other Y1 swords) are a few more outliers since they get +5% damage from their masterworks.
Make a copy of this spreadsheet and filter by swords in the Sustained tab: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit?gid=546993349#gid=546993349
I am curious why you don’t have Enhanced Subsistence for Commemoration as one of the options. The only thing I can see if if you getting Killing Tally and you need to damage a boss because you’ll have more bullet. Otherwise, IMO, with Enhanced Subsistence you can just keep your Commemoration as your primary until it runs out of ammo because you’re rarely going to ever run into something so tanky because you’re below level that you won’t kill it with your Commemoration. If you do gave something super tanky the tier of that enemy is going to give you over half your ammo back… and when it only takes a couple bullets to kill a trash add it gives you maybe 15 bullets back. I’ve many of time in harder content ran out of ammo without switching weapons if there were no champs or something that forced me to switch.
I actually did before, but some back and forth and I think Reconstruction's pseudo-ALH is more useful than Subsistence's technically infinitely firing potential if you're only dealing with red bars
I don't think there is any way for Aegis to even get a sword with the perk. But compendium lists it as 67% and I've seen a few older videos list it as a 200% increase. While that is a large increase it only affects the very last heavy attack. If there was another sword that got it in the left column it could be somewhat noteworthy, but aggressive frames are so bad that it doesn't really affect its dps.
@@SpiderReviverI have a shattering whirlwind, might have to break it out just to see. I’m curious where agg frame swords would place if/when they gain functionality with Wolfpack, for that matter
For adaptive burst LFRs, precision instrument gets 2 stacks per burst needing 3 bursts to get to max stacks. reference: czcams.com/video/hKK__FCZQKg/video.htmlsi=svB1c_Z-9mMWpzJd&t=561
From a previous video aegis pretty much said assblade is a non starter bc you shouldnt be running around killing ads with a sword. Add to that short timer and no way to reproc in a boss damage situation.
I know chaos reshaped has a 5% higher dps value than bait and switch, but do you ever find you have a problem carrying it into boss damage? On herald if I’m coming from plate I’ll often drop chaos reshaped, same with crota if tractor is slow.
Quoting another reply: I actually did before, but some back and forth and I think Reconstruction's pseudo-ALH is more useful than Subsistence's technically infinitely firing potential if you're only dealing with red bars
I should probably remove Chain now that you point it out haha I think I was mixing it up with Guillotine which has Eager/Chain which actually might be potentially useful
With Final Shape. Idk why they thought this combo was broken. Now it gives 2 stacks per burst instead of 3. Still decently strong, but not as good as it was previously.
A couple notes on some previously sunset weapons:
- 21% Delirium would probably fit into high B tier as a non-enhanced rapid with Overflow/KT
- Wendigo GL3 would be at most B, probably C, since Disorienting Grenades now reduce HGL damage significantly after the damage distribution changes
- It Stared Back would be A tier - according to Mossy, Y1 impact swords have a hidden damage bonus which puts them up there with Adept Impact adaptives, plus it has Relentless and Whirlwind, and doesn't really need enhanced perks
Also, Doomed gets 2 stacks of Precision Instruemnt per burst, not 1 (thanks to SpiderReviver for the correction).
I whanna ask you something. Whats better lair handshake or class item lair handhake. I know you dont get heal but you have advenge with 1 extra exo perk on classitem. I am still confused with one
@@Toolbo-x- you dont need the heal
@@thisone98 i test on GM if i dont heal in group of adds with no kill i will die. Becouse of healing i can keep punching and healing until he dies. Thats the reason on lair. On class itrm i must kill. Thats make diffecult on end game
First thing I thought of when I saw the video was un-sunsetting, would be interesting to see if there’s any old rolls worth mentioning for primaries. Definitely been some power creep as far as perks go so I don’t expect there to be too many (not to mention not being able to get a lot of them still so the info’s really only useful for people who saved them) but it would be interesting to see!
Lol, we had people using "it stared back" to clear the 2nd encounter of salvation edge day one... Glad to know our guess is backed up by math.
my team will thank me for using an S tier machine gun for damage
Aegis said they’re all the same except feel. Why not use a lower tier?
@@carnage9536 the joke is you don't use lmgs for damage but ad clear
@@carnage9536big brain right here!
I swap between those and Thunderlord for peak metah
@@iwillbe7214 I'm aware. I was saying they should use lower tiers for damage since they're all the same
With my aim my team is gonna thank me if I use the Thunderlord on the boss instead of nuking myself with the Edge Transit.
the relic has spoken,
my opinion has come
so hyped for ballyhoo ranking in the primary video!
I'll be so disappointed if Husk of the Pit gets overlooked
You like theb?
Take aways from this video
- rockets and HGLs have been powercrept by linears and you should dismantle them
- only heavy you need and should use is thunderlord
They really said "fuck temptations hook" what the hell
thank you relic fella i will use my deterministic chaos for damage
If you’re a Void Titan running that aspect that heals on volatile proc, you can actually get enough healing combined with a well to out-heal the witness’ attacks.
tldr use thunderlord for dps because good damage perk and decent reload perk = S tier
i genuinely wonder how you don't go insane looking at all these numbers and stats
society if linears were good
Everytime I melt a boss with GLS or rockets I say remember linears were the problem
@@Sobergamer61 it's really not tho if you look at other options
this is gonna help me clear out my vault
Metas change brother
I miss S17 linear meta so much.
why 😭
@@walter7216 because I want to do 150k on my reeds with font of might
@@degenerativewalnut9079 ngl, I enjoyed the times when Rockets were used for pure DPS, while linears were for getting total damage with a bonus of having more reserves.
However, with ammo buffs and GLs gaining a huge damage increase, GLs have taken up the mantle of total damage while also making the gap in DPS with rockets much smaller. Linears don't really have a niche anymore, other than being a "safer" option to not blow yourself up with. Theoretically this is a nice balance in weapon choice, but in reality I feel bad for myself if my team misses out on boss HP thresholds just because I wanted to stay alive in DPS.
@@degenerativewalnut9079 you can still hit for that much with a weaken and a lumina and surges probably
@@walter7216 yeah but it’s harder to get to 150k nowadays. Back then all I needed to do was shatter a damn stasis crystal
Retrofit with fttc + target lock was my go to during the season it dropped , never thought of it so low
I don't perceive LMGs as being viable for endgame boss DPS currently
On the topic of rockets, I have actually been enjoying Palmyra with my stasis crystal spam stasis titan build this season. Hakke breach and explosive light can break stasis crystals from VERY far away, allowing for some large aoe damage. Coupled with the ease of use of precisions, it makes for a fun little interaction
Love your content. Your tier lists/sheets helps me to know which weapons, perks, etc to focus on and also helps for vault cleaning.
Waiting for your primary update ... and beyond!
Good work!
I totally agree with you that lament is no longer good but for warlock with song of flame and artifact it's debatable.
The fact they took away the 2 burst to get full doomed petitioner PI stacks is crazy to me, especially when bns exists. You have to actually hit all your shots otherwise you lose the perk instantly too
Check pinned, doomed gets 2 PI stacks per burst.
Still outclassed by BnS but 3 bursts isn't too bad for straight firing a weapon.
For real
Who are you? I accidentally stumble upon this video and it’s the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. For years I try to do somethjng like this but never finish it. Not to mention you’re on another level in terms of knowledge. Very impressed.
Glad you're enjoying the content!
he is the relic consisting of aegis
Its still bizarre that they have the data to see linears usages rate being low and noticed doom was doing mad good with precision instrument then nerf that to the ground and now nobody's useing them again
Damn, the new seasonal MG just reminded me how badly they destroyed Deconstruct. If it was prenerf, I would use it for the ammo efficiency even if it was moved to the 4th column.
Now that they're putting it in the third column, there is 0 chance they'll ever revert the nerf :(
Thanks for these videos! I always enjoy listening to your thoughts.
Aegis is my new datto. I do nothing until instructions are clear from the new goat.
this video got me to the encounter using less than 70 sword ammo. thank you lord relic !!!!
Faith keeper gets extra damage against vex enemies if you take the artifact mod. This effectively undos the precision frame damage nerf if you're dealing with vex enemies. It's a pretty solid option at least for this season
It's only 5%, which isn't nearly enough, but yeah something to consider I suppose
@@TheAegisRelic Precisions hit for 15% less down from 20%, right?
Papa aegis is feeding us good recently
I wonder how much enhanced air trigger boost crowning duologues reserves? I'm about to get a rocket with air trigger deconstruct just for rocket spam lmao.
the inverted color images are so frustrating I cant even tell what gun it is from the visual
Invert your brain
Yeah it's either that or no dark mode and the people spoke to me
@@TheAegisReliclol. Quick question my season of arrivals falling guillotine relentless whirlwind is still fine right? I just saw that on the chart it’s specifically the brave version and want to know if I should go out of my way to get a brave one?
@@salmonbamminfish2925 Frenzy is a 15% damage buff. You can find the relevant falling guillotine entry and divide the sustained dps value by 1.15 to get what would be its dps. Without frenzy, the dps is lower than spamming light attacks on a relentless+whirlwind 'The Other Half' and only barely above optimal Lament which doesn't even get wolfpacks.
@@SpiderReviver ok thank you for the insight genuinely but if I’m not doing like what master herald encounter or lowman stuff is it still worth the effort of farming onslaught. I guess I could just wait and it wouldn’t be that painful because they’ll be reintroducing the targeted brave drops. Again thanks for the info but I’m not super into the meta so I don’t really know what to do with what you gave me.
I've been using False Idols with Incan + OFA and, although not necessarily the best, is just really fun and semi effective for majors
Thanks for the great videos. I see the effort you put in. :)
at least the heavy weapons don’t have titan eyes on herald 💀
These videos are awesome. You go into so much detail. Keep it up man 💪🏽
Pro Memoria has been a phenomenal weapon for my Strand-based builds on my Warlock. Bait and Switch letting it pull a little double duty is awesome.
LINE IN THE SAND has clown cartridge and reservoir burst and importantly the origin trait cast no shadows can bump up the mag to 15 SHOTS and everything above the base mag has reservoir burst on it and it keeps the ammo while stowed so i think it's an S tier LFR especially for arc surge and sometimes i find them useful if i have an encounter where being very far away is necessary and im shooting at flying bosses or champs so rockets don't cut it
It's not bad but I don't account for artifact mods (CNS overflow) when I rank and even if I did RB isn't as good as some of the other damage perks available on adaptive bursts.
@@TheAegisRelic it's a 5 percent difference between it and bait and switch,for sure bait is better for overall dps but i think for overall utility in most activities even some gms that require a precision damage weapon it's very good as you can have 7 reservoir shots ready at all times with no set up
Not a dps weapon for sure but great utility non the less and i find it a Great arc option i just thought it was important to mention this interaction
@@ofekmizrahi3079 Yeah it's kinda cool for sure
i’ve been saying this about compressed wave frames, they’re not meta but they’re super fun! the neomuna stasis cwf feels like forbearance on steroids
My Pro memoria with enhanced desperate measures and hatchling on my strand warlock has been absolutely cooking, double strange surge, overcharge mod from seasonal artifact, mines a level 98 so far 😅
Love Hatchling Pro Memoria on Swarmerslock too, it's just so much fun. I personally rock Frenzy for the added reload speed because you do need to manually reload if you run Hatchling, def recommend giving that a try if you haven't!
@@Galaxy40k fair point I’ll give it a shot!
I changed my crafted Song of Ir Yut from Sword Logic to High Ground.
I do not regret, High Ground is much more viable after the buff, it's a slightly Weaker Rampage with Longer timers and 2 ways of procing (kills or high ground), very versatile.
The question is why you ever put SL on it to begin with over BaS
That's what happened to Doomed! Thanks, Aegis.
I personally have my Pro Memoria crafted with Recon and Frenzy because it's just nice having a free 15% dmg buff in combat after having used my special ammo weapons or such to do something in combat. Pro Memoria is just really fucking good frfr
Do you think for next season you can add, where to acquire or if they are even acquirable so I can send this to my new friends to the game. It would help them hunt for good weapons when I’m not leading them on some grinds.
bruh take 5 seconds to look it up damn. He's already testing every weapon in the game to put this out ☠️
I would say for most weapons it's pretty easy to just look up how to get them yeah
Can’t wait for the primary variant
Faith keeper is probably the best choice for Prismatic Titans using star eaters/ eternal warrior class item, damage done is pretty good with the boost and the tracking is nice for consistent damage
i dont think the extra ~3% damage from having 4x surge over 3x surge is worth the ~15% loss in damage per rocket from precision frames over adaptive/aggressive frames
Braytech osprey exist
@@Blanktester685 braytech is a high impact frame, which is still a 10% damage loss over aggressive/adaptive frames
I think hammerhead should be S tier because of its unique combo of rampage + killing tally. Thats a 73% damage bonus after 3 kills, the burst ad clear on it is amazing, especially when theres a major or miniboss surrounded by ads.
I did say A and S are close
Bit surprised that Bait doesn't get a mention on Summum considering how it can be annoyingly unreliable/involved to keep Chaos Reshaped live on the most notable sword bosses (Herald and LFG aka non-surrounded Crota). I've run both a decent bit lately, and especially if you're on a sword role on Crota, I found myself losing CR a lot.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Whirlwind + Wolfpack interaction removed too.
Also, specific old outliers like It Stared Back and Wendigo should be on there IMO.
Whirlwind is equal or better
oh how far seventh seraph saw has fallen since the good old days
i remember subzero salvo and royal entry in lost sectors.. i remember..
Since linears don't have a place in the meta right now. What heavy weapons would you recommend for tormentors?
Microcosm destroyer of tormentor.
@@Zasz33 Just to be clear, microcosm doesn't get a damage boost against tormentors. It's just an insanely good and easy option for killing tormentors.
Izi, forerunner, most guns paired with divinity, and supers are also great options.
@@SpiderReviverit does, kimd of. Tormenter healthbars are counted as shields so it does bonus damage, combine that with it being able to crit and you got a monster
21:13 bro forgot about the era when every Linear Fusion was Crooked Fang-4fr for like 2 years after Forsaken (and also the Red War linears). Not that those weapons are even in the running, they'd be down there with Threaded Needle nowadays but still
Sadly I am a Y4 player :(
BUNGIE MAKE COLD COMFORT ENHANCEABLE AND MY LIFE IS YOURS
I grinded back when it first was introduced off my ass for 30-40 adept unwaverings before getting subsistence with killing tally and incan. I still feel this is an exotic tier lmg and unmatched by anything else.
I believe it still belongs in S.
It's great don't get me wrong but I think other LMGs have a) enhanced perks and b) more versatility
@@TheAegisRelic good points I see your perspective .Thanks for a great video!
I was going to ask for unsunset weapon like 21 delirium, old wendigo etc. But our king Aegis aldredy did in comment, ty so much !
idk if this is a good example but with prismatic hunter foetracer i was able to hit almost 5 million on the final boss of warlords with pro memoria. it is alright, but the inclusion of prismatic just makes damage so much better now.
I mean 5 million with no context could really mean anything but yeah Prismatic Golden Gun is really strong
geodetic being A is surprising, i assumed Nadir would ruin its tracking on bosses like crota and herald
I got exactly one Pro Memoria and it had Reconstruction/Bait and Switch. Honestly I’ve yet to be given a non-god roll Pale Heart weapon, but I just finished Final Shape so there’s time for junk 😂
is there a particular reason why dimensional hypotrochoid (the other compressed wave HGL) is down in C tier despite having field prep + chain reaction just like hullabaloo
those perks aren't listed for it in the spreadsheet so maybe someone just goofed and didn't see them or something but it don't make sense lul
I think the main notable difference is that hullabaloo gets cascade point which massively boosts its dps. Hullabaloo is also arc which is generally a better element than stasis.
But he definitely should add field + chain since hullabaloo has them listed.
@@SpiderReviver yeah hullabaloo probably still should be above it since it has a more versatile set of perks and arc is a more useful element, but hypotrochoid should probably be at least mid or high B tier since it’s craftable and has nano rockets
I view compressed waves as a hybrid between add clear and DPS while still being pretty ammo efficient, and Hullabaloo meets both goals a lot better than Dimensional does, Nanotech is cool but craftable status isn't an advantage if both are enhanceable for the purposes of my spreadsheet
@@TheAegisRelic yeah craftable status shouldn't make a difference and it doesn't really make it easier to get a certain roll since neomuna weapons are ass to farm lmao
still though i don't think the gap between hullabaloo and dimensional is quite that massive (for add clear at least, hullabaloo definitely has much better perks for dps)
at the very least i think field prep/chain reaction should be listed as noteworthy perks for dimensional if they are for hullabaloo
Yeah perhaps not, I'll add Chain in there and we'll revisit it next season :P
Linears are in the dirt right now and I’m kinda sad about it. Cataclysmic was my old reliable back when they were good. Look how they massacred my boy!
I believe you can also use the exotic khvostov with pro memoria and get the dealer's choice x2 buff. I heard it also works with ace and microcosm, but not 100% sure on that
Only ace of spades, khvostov, and still hunt work with dealer's choice. Compendium has the correct info regarding which weapons work.
According to somebody in the destiny science discord the amount you get is 1% at x1, 2.5% at x2, and 3.5% at x3.
For reference base kills are 0.75%, base bad juju is 1.55%, thresh is 1.75%, and x5 string of curses is 2.75%.
Not sure how accurate that information is, but it sounds pretty reasonable.
I always wind up out damaging people with my machine gun i love pro memoria so much
Pro Memoria DPS O_O
Does Retrofit with fourth times/target lock not stack up anymore?
@@Wartortlewins it never did
It was able to perform decent double duty for half a season when volatile rounds was bugged on it and didn't have a cooldown, and so its damage was hugely buffed by the constant volatile explosions. But it's fallen off since then.
If it wasnt for the Bipod-EL swap, would Crux still be the best GM rocket in the game? If not, what would be? Theres so many very similar looking rolls and I don't know the frame differences well enough to decide on my own LOL
That would be gally
You can't swap perks in gm lol
Apex would still be better, same rolls with better stats
@@Fabledtable true I was just trying to shorthand for "champ killing bipod rocket" but that backfired next time I should just spell out the whole thing lol
Avalanche would be your ideal machine gun it has sub Incan and is an adaptive. Not earnable anymore though.
Reserve issues unfortunately
The 1 stack per burst for precision is wrong o belive, it has only taken me extra shot to get the full buff on doomed partitioned, down from two full burst
Let’s goooo cup bearer still in S tier. Cluster metah 😤😤
That aggressive frames don't get the benefit of Wolf pack is kinda BS
That's a bruh moment, I think this is probably a bug
Yeah it's in patch notes now
your biggest sin is having royal entry at the bottom but considering faith keeper A. Their offerings are WAY too similar to substantiate a three tier difference!
the bigger point here is that royal entry is way better than the likes of ascendancy and subzero salvo lol
I was thinking I might move it higher you're not wrong
Hammerhead with destabilizing killing tally is my absolute favorite lmg to run on strand subclasses with thread of ascent.
When you mention crux termination, you mention bipod swapping. Does that mean having bipod and explosive light in the 4rd column? I'm trying to find a swap option for my cloudstrike and got clown cartridge and bipod. Wondering if I should keep searching or not
Yeeeep
Cold Comfort feels like it should be S tier with the origin trait
It had its time in the sun but these days it's more niche than ever
I think Throne cleaver and Crown splitter (I think that’s the name, I’m talking ab the 2 titans swords) should be moved from D tier. They’re not meant for DPS and meant for a niche scenario with stronghold general play. It’s not like stronghold is an S tier build but it’s not even close to bad either. They should probably be in like C or B tier with that regards since they’re the only sword that works that well (that’s not lament) for stronghold gameplay.
In optimal endgame play, swords are generally used either for boss damage or for movement, and those swords fall flat on both fronts, and this list is designed to represent optimal endgame play
@@TheAegisRelic I have to respectfully disagree on these 2 swords, stuff like solo GMs or dungeons where people use stronghold (again not like it’s OFTEN, or the meta of them but a still very viable build even if a little slow) is endgame. I can see and definitely agree as to them not being anywhere near S or even A tier. But I don’t think they deserve the “basically useless if you have any other sword in the game” meaning that D tier gives them.
the one major disagreement i have is not putting quickfang in S tier solely because it makes you run like you're in an anime lmao
Good Morning Aegis
I use a holster with the Hammerhead, it reloads the mag faster than Reconstruction, but doesn't overflow of course. As for damage, even if you run three surges for lmg or one scavenger and two surges, Hammerhead does much more damage even without that one surge anyway. As for overflowing the mag, I feel like if you're shooting 150 rounds at something in a row, then you're not supposed to use the lmg for that.
Edit: I didn't mean that I use the Hammerhead for dps, guys, you're allowed to use surges even outside dps phase
Please don’t use lmgs for damage
Pls no machine gun DPS, microcosm exist.
@@Shockedemoji803 chill, I didn't mean dps, ad clear only xd
I do as the Aegis guides.
I think you should probably consider onslaught a reload perk for lmgs
When I say reload I mean simulated not stat boost
Now that they’re going to fix aggressive frame swords, where would you place them in the ranking?
Gotta test once the patch is out :P
Yippee!
Retrofit is def a B tier atleast it has 4th times and targetlock! Unless only for add clear then it may be lower
Add clear specifics
So with the emphasis on rockets leaning towards an ad-clear role now, why don't you (seem to) consider Chain Reaction as a desirable perk? It did get buffed on heavy weapons recently.
Bipod is typically same column as Chain Reaction so you would have to give up the ammo increase for it.
Also, ad clear with rockets typically means somebody giving you wolfpack rounds. Wolfpack rounds are so good for ad clear that the extra shots from bipod far outweigh the chain reaction portion.
Haven't used Chain Reaction on a heavy, but compendium says that it deals 109 damage in a 3 meter radius. For reference, firefly is 104 damage. I'm pretty sure compendium has the updated number, but if it's more than 109 it could be a good option for ad clear.
@@SpiderReviver Well, two things you should note: Enhanced CR does increase reserves (by at least 1 rocket) and iirc, wolfpack rounds kills can proc chain reaction.
Usually rockets with wolfpacks just straight up kill anything that would benefit from the small CR damage in my experience, and like Spider says you're competing with Bipod which is a hard ask
I know for a fact that falling guillotine with relentless whirlwind does more damage on bosses than every one on the list by a lot.
A falling guillotine with frenzy+whirlwind would do more than that roll. And other sources have confirmed that vortex swords in general aren't great.
Falling guillotine is hard carried by being the only(?) sword with notable double damage perks. Without double damage perks, most swords edge out falling guillotine (even including the buff from expanding abyss).
This is even more true for surrounded swords or summum bonum getting chaos reshaped which are both larger buffs than whirlwind. It Stared Back (and other Y1 swords) are a few more outliers since they get +5% damage from their masterworks.
Make a copy of this spreadsheet and filter by swords in the Sustained tab:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4/edit?gid=546993349#gid=546993349
I am curious why you don’t have Enhanced Subsistence for Commemoration as one of the options.
The only thing I can see if if you getting Killing Tally and you need to damage a boss because you’ll have more bullet. Otherwise, IMO, with Enhanced Subsistence you can just keep your Commemoration as your primary until it runs out of ammo because you’re rarely going to ever run into something so tanky because you’re below level that you won’t kill it with your Commemoration. If you do gave something super tanky the tier of that enemy is going to give you over half your ammo back… and when it only takes a couple bullets to kill a trash add it gives you maybe 15 bullets back.
I’ve many of time in harder content ran out of ammo without switching weapons if there were no champs or something that forced me to switch.
I actually did before, but some back and forth and I think Reconstruction's pseudo-ALH is more useful than Subsistence's technically infinitely firing potential if you're only dealing with red bars
Great overview! What is the go to combination (light and heavy) for swords this season? Or there isn´t much of a difference for legendary swords?
1H2L as usual
Where does shattering blade/whirlwind throne cleaver land? I know it’s an archaic perk but I’m curious if it’s been placed/tested
I don't think there is any way for Aegis to even get a sword with the perk.
But compendium lists it as 67% and I've seen a few older videos list it as a 200% increase. While that is a large increase it only affects the very last heavy attack.
If there was another sword that got it in the left column it could be somewhat noteworthy, but aggressive frames are so bad that it doesn't really affect its dps.
@@SpiderReviverI have a shattering whirlwind, might have to break it out just to see. I’m curious where agg frame swords would place if/when they gain functionality with Wolfpack, for that matter
add Drop Shadow to the S tiers Machine Guns
erm,, mister aegis,,, you forgot to mention that commemoration gets adaptive munitions for subjugators,,,, mr aegis,,, it should be S+ tier,,,,
It is criminal putting hammerhead below S
I did say S and A are close :P
good morning aegis
For adaptive burst LFRs, precision instrument gets 2 stacks per burst needing 3 bursts to get to max stacks.
reference: czcams.com/video/hKK__FCZQKg/video.htmlsi=svB1c_Z-9mMWpzJd&t=561
Dragon cult does have double damage perks of assassin blade and surrounded. But it isn't enhance able
From a previous video aegis pretty much said assblade is a non starter bc you shouldnt be running around killing ads with a sword. Add to that short timer and no way to reproc in a boss damage situation.
why not count feeding frenzy as a reload perk on hammer head?
Not a simulated reload, it's a stat buff
Oh I see, thank you for clarifying
I know chaos reshaped has a 5% higher dps value than bait and switch, but do you ever find you have a problem carrying it into boss damage? On herald if I’m coming from plate I’ll often drop chaos reshaped, same with crota if tractor is slow.
You have to play a little intentionally around it in some phases yeah
Nah, doomed petitioner is only good because of high ground for the 25% no swapping required.
High Ground is definitely an interesting perk for precision weapons
I’m still using my blue auto rifle for dps
Why didn't you put subsistence in commemorations 1st slot ?
Quoting another reply: I actually did before, but some back and forth and I think Reconstruction's pseudo-ALH is more useful than Subsistence's technically infinitely firing potential if you're only dealing with red bars
Yo can you do primaries? :D this is a dope series, made me sub 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Yeah tomorrow
You don't think sleeping would be good for your health, Aegis. I doubt you'd get much with how much content you are putting out.
Your recommended perks for the slammer are mysterious. You're using chain demo for ad clear?
I should probably remove Chain now that you point it out haha I think I was mixing it up with Guillotine which has Eager/Chain which actually might be potentially useful
Speologis if it has envious and incan it will be S tier
It has Envious :O
I hate that they nerfed doomed petetioners interaction with precision instrument
You gonna do primaries?
Yeah tomorrow :P
The relic has appeared…
And so has my DPS opinion.
Quickfang deserves more respect. Its the most fun sword everrrr
Unfortunately these lists aren't based around fun factor :P
Listen, a 10/10 in fun, is the way to roll all the time!! :)
Fixed Odds my beloved B
I‘m sorry WHAT!?!?!? When did Bungie nerf PI on aggressive/adaptive LFR‘s!?!?!??!
With Final Shape. Idk why they thought this combo was broken.
Now it gives 2 stacks per burst instead of 3. Still decently strong, but not as good as it was previously.