Wahoo Acquisition of RGT Cycling and Wahoo X Explained
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- #indoorcycling #cycling #wahoofitness
Wahoo Fitness announced the acquisition of the virtual cycling platform RGT Cycling - now called Wahoo RGT - and also announced the launch of Wahoo X Subscription Service. In this video, I go over the details of the acquisition, pricing, and what to expect.
-- Chapters --
0:00 Intro
1:09 Wahoo SYSTM
1:48 Wahoo RGT
3:54 Deal making Behind the scene
4:03 Wahoo X
4:31 Single Sign-on
5:00 Wahoo X Pricing Explained
6:59 Final Thoughts
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This is good, more competition for zwift is great. It will make all virtual cycling apps better.
More stronger competition is always a good thing for us. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
I switched to RGT last year after being frustrated with Zwift's poor Bluetooth support, so many missed events with pairing issues.
But I fell in love with the vastly better experience of RGT, the graphics and physics make for a more immersive experience, and its half the price of zwift.
Even with the higher price now, if you pay the yearly fee it's only $1 more and you get access to Systm which goes a long way to correcting the major shortcoming with RGT that is the workouts.
Now that it's wahoo I suspect the server populations will increase a lot, which also deals with the admittedly lonely experience of riding RGT.
I had SYSTM sub + Zwift. Now better of both world for half the price. Super 👍🏽
First started with Zwift but moved to Wahoo, like the structure and more realistic speed calculations! Signed onto RGT now, the routes as you say are a bit light on for riders but the Magic roads system is really handy and will use to ride in the dry this winter while on my regular rides others may prefer to slog it out in the rain😁
I'm not sure what's more impressive, the content here, our the outrageous quality of this production / lighting etc. Very well done !
Thank you 🙏🏼
Having 2 training programs is a bit too much already but at the same time Zwift needs to have competition. I'm actually for it.
Great information, I like the idea of having a “One Stop Shop” for total training. I am currently a Zwift user and would like to have more variety in my fitness programs other than just cycling training. I will definitely be looking into this. 🤩🚴🏻♀️💪
As a Wahoo Trainer lover these two acquisitions make them very powerful and as a long time Zwift subscriber it will definitely be worth considering. More competition for Zwift is also great
The option to pay a full year at a discount price appeals to me, pay in one go and not bother about a higher monthly fee, Zwift I think are missing out lots cancel subscriptions throughout the summer months meaning Zwift probably only get 6-7 months subscription from some users but if they offered a yearly package at a discount they would get the full years payment, RGT just needs a few more real world courses, magic roads offer some but would like to see more,
To be fair I don’t think Zwift could scale to handle that many concurrent subscriptions and probably favours the winter trend of subs as northern and Southern Hemisphere countries come into season alternatively I.e there is a balance of demand that might be ok for them now. Zwifts network effect is way bigger than RGT, and just don’t see them being bothered by this acquisition- I’m curious to see what Zwift are doing on the hardware side to take indoor out of the current 2 dimensional experience.
I wouldn’t want to join year round, if it’s only to be used in dec, Jan and feb. One thing I like about zwift is I can unsubscribe at any time.
@@ellieexplorestheworld4227 think your missing my point , my comment says the discount full year subscription appeals to me
Thanks for the review. Long time zwifter and Sufferfest user and continue to use these platforms on daily basis. Also used Rouvy for one season. New to RGT. Did a group ride on RGT today and was bored stiff. Route and group social was good but scenery was dull, repetitive, and actually quite mind numbing. Same can be said for magic routes. I can see that racing on RGT is probably a lot of fun though and I'm really looking forward to the experience. However, in order to keep me interested in doing free and group rides in addition to workouts a significant amount of scenic development is needed to keep my interest.
I agree on your point about magic roads when free riding Bob. Racing on magic roads is a better experience, largely because you are so focused on the riders around you. However, one thing that compares poorly with Zwift is the lack of Strava segments on climbs, which makes it difficult to do any pre-race planning. Zwift racers know what sort of effort they need to do on the well known climbs, through looking at Zwiftpower and Strava.
The magic routes are a bit boring. The "real" routes are a interpretation of the real world. Most are (very) good, "Leuven" is quite a bit simplified as you see only a hand full of different houses over and over again. For the magic route there is a second (much better) engine available when you create an event. For events the have the choice of the "classic" and the "Spring" theme for rendering the magic route.
Thanks Tariq for another great video. I race on both Zwift and RGT. In my opinion, the reason why more riders haven’t come across from Zwift is because of the lack of post-race analysis and the lack of FTP categorisation. The absence of any Zwiftpower type post-race analysis contributes to a lack of transparency on RGT. I see a far higher proportion of races on RGT being blown apart by riders with crazy power numbers.
Agree, there is a lot to do on that end to prevent cheaters. With more resources now available for RGT, it will be interesting to see what happens. Thanks for watching and the feedback 🙏🏼
Good job mate 👍 thanks for all info.
Cool. I've done 2 rides so far on RGT and I'm enjoying it. Managed an hour workout ride this morning and the way it controlled the trainer was cool.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your feedback 🙏🏼
Thanks for the video after a winter training on zwift im a bit sick of the crappy software and was looking for at jumping back over to sufferfest or trainerroad so this merging is really appealing.
i don't know about anyone else but i train indoors for fitness reasons not social if i want social interaction i go out and meet people so the fact i can upload my training peaks workouts to it is a big plus for me all the other things the platform offers is just an added on extra.
I’m on the same boat. 99% of my training is structured and not so much to socialize 🤷🏻♂️
Wahoo & Chill ))
A new way to get out on date scene
Thanks for the run through, just in the process of switching from Zwift to Wahoo X and it is good to see what is included. Didn't actually realize Sufferfest was Wahoo SYSTM and as someone who used this years ago when it was just vids that's actually pretty cool. As for your point on how Zwift will react? Well they just lost over a month of my training rides and refused to even look at the problem. I think they are going through that 'to big to care' period and it will be interesting to see how users react. I'm just glad there are other options to try. I don't want much, just something reasonably reliable.
I was a diehard Zwifter who had the sufferfest for the yoga and strength, now having RGT i Find my indoor rides are split 50-50. Its a good platform, takes a bit to get used to but different is good! did a structured recovery ride on RGT this am which was great.
Awesome… thanks for the feedback 🙏🏼
Interesting move by Wahoo. I think Zwift has been sleeping in their glory for quite some time. I’ve been a Zwifter for years but in my opinion the platform hasn’t changed that much other than cosmetic changes here and there. I’m glad you explained it in this video because I was confused when I got the email by Wahoo promoting this system. I definitely would take a look at it. I think Wahoo is becoming a good all around company with a good vision of where they want to go. Thanks for this vid.
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Another great video, I've been interested in switching to systm but heard horror stories with connection issues from people with tacx neos, if that issue is fixed, 100% I'm going over. I'm tired of zwift and have been for a while. Training is garbage, the social side is nice but honestly I ride and run to improve. So let's see what happens, I hope it succeeds
Interesting to hear about the NEO issues. Haven’t had issues here but causes of connection issues seem to vary a lot between people and devices used. Hopefully it will be a smooth sailing for you. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Great information. You should work for wahoo
There is a wide variety of indoor trainer users - racing and physics are not that important to me. I suspect there are many that don't care whether the bike inclines or has road feel built in either. I do enjoy 'seeing all my numbers' during the ride. My request is to be able to see segment times/PR (or race a ghost rider) while I'm riding to motivate me to improve against my best prior efforts. I don't need steering or braking in the corners, the ride on Zwift is immersive enough. I don't care about Zwift's virtual bikes/hardware either, though I do rummage through the jerseys! I agree that knowing there is always a group ride or a lot of people free riding in Zwift is motivating as well - there is something about trying the catch the person just up the road that keeps you working hard! The challenge for Wahoo and Zwift is to determine how many different market segments are significant and which ones to try focus on for software development.
Nice video buddy 👋 ride on 👍
Thank you 🙏🏼
I’ve done many thousands of kilometres on Zwift over the past 2 years and I’ve got a little bored with the same old routes so I am looking at alternatives (Fulgaz at the moment). I’m definitely interested in the Wahoo RGT combo but I think SYSTM is entirely indoor based training (I might be wrong on this) and we are moving into summer. I want to be able to upload my outdoor rides (and runs) and have them factored in to my training load. I might have another look in October once my focus is moving inside again
TrainingPeaks is your best choice to track all your workouts and fatigue from running and cycling. But systm doesn’t have an outdoor option as of yet.
Wahoo has stated that they're working on integrating outdoor rides but still haven't launched anything. Now that it's spring I have to build the workouts in Training Peaks and use that to manage my overall fitness progression as well. The lack of integration with outdoor rides and overall fitness is the biggest drawback of Systm IMO.
@@SmartBikeTrainers XERT
the thing im waiting for is integration with there own system workout into rgt. If I set up workouts in the system calander I should be able to just import them into rgt but sadly that didn't seem to be on top of the list
I hve trainerroad and zwift at the moment. Wahoo X is looking good when my trainerroad yearly sub expires
So far the things you are presenting here, make me think I am signing up for this one. If I like it, I will ditch Zwift. I like the yoga and other things that are OFF the bike features. Plus I could use a change of scenes, as I have ridden Zwift for years.
I’ve had issues with Zwift and BT with AppleTV and Apple Watch for over 2 years so I’m ready to try RGT. I downloaded it and had nothing but issues getting it working. Seemed like they need to spend some more time with the new user setup, especially users coming from Zwift.
Ugh… that’s frustrating. Sorry to hear!
Well so far I can’t get the RGT app to work on my iPhone 12 Max. It won’t get past the loading screen and just crashes the entire phone. Works fine on the laptop, am I missing something?
I have to admit just hit level 50 on Zwift a few weeks ago and kinda feel like I lost the “carrot”. I have been on Zwift since 2016 and used to be a long time Sufferfest fan before Zwift. I love Zwift and all that they offer, but this is very intriguing 🤔
Worth checking out and the sufferfest videos are always fun to watch and motivating at the same time. The two apps bundle is definitely intriguing. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Hello friends, can you help me?
I bought a Kirck wahoo roller and I want to make use of the 14 free trial days but they ask me for a card number for when the 14 days are up........how do I do the trial only and on the 13th day give me low if I don't like it? Can you help me?
Tempting but.... as a multiport athlete I'll likely stick with Zwift for as long as it continues to offer running. With Zwift ride/run brick workouts and WTRL duathlon races have me hooked for now.
Definitely having the running option in zwift is huge. So many apps seem to neglect it.
Hi Tarek. I currently use rouvy and a bit disappointed as the platform does not offer a variety of workouts for interval training purposes. I also stopped using their virtual routes and races. Do you advise that I move to wahoo?
Definitely worth a try and see if you like
It. Between SYSTM and RGT, hopefully you will find plenty of entertainment and motivation. They do offer 14-day trial as well.
Under Sensors on the setup menu, Power, Cadence, Heart Rate is clear, but what is CONTROL , what does it do and should it be on or off? Are you hopefully going to do a setup video for optimum selections when using RGT? Thanks!
That option is specific to smart bike trainers. It allows the software to interact with the trainer and control resistance to simulate terrain or utilize ERG mode in structured workouts.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Thanks I have a Wahoo Kickr, so I will give it a try.
I have used Zwift, Rouvy, Bkool, all of them are good. But after a while the colours and gaming feel of Zwift began to get on my nerves. I now use Trainer Road, Kinomap and am testing out this Wahoo X/ RGT package. TR is effective at what it does. Then for me, I am interested in REAL roads. Rouvy should be the clear winner there, but I feel their interface is not quite there yet. Kinomap has fantastic scenery and lots of famous routes. RGT feels less dumbed down than Zwift and magic roads is great. It means I can find intriguing climbs that I have experienced in real life and relive them, or train to prepare for a particular route. With TR, KM and RGT I might find myself watching sth else on another sceeen at the same time but I dont mind.
You can’t push system work outs to garmin or other devices so that’s why I’m not using it. I get why but , that’s why I’m not . Thx for video.
I think Wahoo is working to add this feature to systm. Hopefully we will see it out soon. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Why dont these apps have ave power and at least a lap option to be similar to a cycling gps monitor? This makes sense as to me to have it as such a1s it is instant feedback to check your ave . It will also eliminate in many ways ergo mode for those who dont like it and you can choose the cadence you prefer on flat and hills when doing intervals which is more natural
Yeah, I don’t know why they don’t have it. I have to always use my bike computer to see my lap power.
Ditto. The absurd thing is Zwift do avg power & HR for each segment on Alp du Zwift. Fantastic for pacing!
@@SmartBikeTrainers currently I use my quarq as my power source and trainer as the control. Cadence is also on the quarq. Is it possible to run my cycling computer as well? I am sure it is not rocket science for wahoo to build in those 2vextra options for us users.
Possible to run a pol on yes or no to power reductions in the corners?
Will there still be free routes available like there has been on RGT?
Yes, the free option is still available with limited number of routes and you will have the ability to join group rides and events.
I subscribe to System and used to with RGT. Was tempted by Zwift once but it’s too like Super Mario Cart or some other computer game. The one big limitation with RGT is the limitation of Magic Road lengths to 100km. Got good at chopping rides in two when I was a member. Also the graphics for magic roads is kinda rubbish. I hope Wahoo sort Magic Roads as they comparatively sucked.
Do they offer full compatibility with Tacx Neo Smart Bike and Garmin Fenix 6xPro?
Tacx NEO is supported and works with both apps. As for the Fenix 6, both apps supports ANT+ and Bluetooth connections so if you plan on broadcasting HR data from Fenix, then you should be able to connect it to either app.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Thank you very much!!!
hey Tariq,
I am using rgt since about two weeks and I still can`t find the settings specificly I would like to apply power-smoothing likw in Zwift or TR but I just can`t find it, do you or anyone else know somwthing about that?
Lukas
I believe RGT doesn’t have that setting anymore. They used to have it in their pairing menu. I’m actually wondering if RGT default to 3s power smoothing as I didn’t see jumps in power like I would see if no smoothing was done. Will have to check on that and get back to you.
Honestly I have been on Zwift for years now and amjust about to hit lvl 50 ... I might try this combined model for a month if they actually have the gear display working in there as...Zwift does NOT show my wahoo bike gears and no clue why as the cheaper atom does so what gives 😑
I haven’t checked with Wahoo bike and RGT yet. But Wahoo didn’t add gear display on the Elemnt bike computers which makes me doubt that they plan on adding it to RGT anytime soon.
Tried RGT in the past and always reverted back to Zwift.
Tried wahoo SYSTM for structure but again reverted back to Zwift for the social aspect.
Wahoo products fan throughout indoor / outdoor setups.
This acquisition now has pulled me in to subscribing to both.
To +1 your comment about pulling market share from Zwift. I totally agree that if the number of members increases enough and with the physics accuracy Wahoo/RGT will be the place to be for racing / group rides.
Great insight
Is there a good Ap or way to train without using phone minutes or data. Wife complains about the phone bill
As long as your tablet is connected to your WiFi, it shouldn’t use your phone data and your wife will be happy
The product may be good but I'm not keen on this move. It means less competition amongst virtual training apps as there will be fewer over time.
Zwift to buy Trainer Road?
Anything is possible at this point.
They have their work cut out for them. Right now when it comes to iOS and Google Play apps Zwift has a huge lead. That said, it appears the announcement is having an impact. Zwift's total downloads have started to drop while Wahoo RGT have started to climb sharply and have now surpassed Rouvy to move into the number 2 spot. For the week ending April 18, 2022 Zwift had 63% of downloads, Rouvy had 30% and Wahoo and RGT combined had 6%. For the week ending April 25th Zwift slipped to 38% while Wahoo/RGT surged to 31% and Rouvy dropped to 16%. Of course these are just download numbers. Too early to say on revenue per download. Also this only applies to download through iOS app store and Google Play.
Interesting stats. Will be interesting to see if this trend continues or just hype after the news.
Interesting. I hope they don’t end up doing something drastic like making it so their products like the KICKR only work with Wahoo X. That would be pretty irritating
That wouldn’t be smart on their end to do that particularly if zwift starts making their own trainers.
Also if they are still trying everything they can to get users, it would not be smart to do right now. Perhaps in the future there will be features on the equipment that works best in Wahoo software.
It is available in apple tv?
RGT has an Apple TV app. SYSTM does not.
@@SmartBikeTrainers I think i'll wait till i can get Systm on my Apple tv before i make a decision to switch from Zwift to WahooX. I just want to train and get better, i'm not that interested in the social side of it. I am interested in magic roads, all the training including the yoga/mental, but as it's not available for apple tv...
Zwift is good, but I don't have 20 minutes every time I use it to go through updates and then multiple crashes on startup. I used to run it ultra 4k mode with my graphics card on a 4k tv but there was an update a few months ago that basically junked it. I am not going to upgrade my computer again just so I can ride. I have been using RGT for a few months and love it. I love the bots, I set them a fair way below and just above my ftp with about 40 bots. I always find a few bots to ride with depending on my mood and if I feel strong I can chase them down and try to pick them off one by one. This Acquisition will more than likely be the end of Zwift for me.
In stead of buying other companies wahoo should finally make Apple tv app . Am still riding in Zwift for that reason
A couple of years ago, the Sufferfest was working on Apple TV version but that never made it into the public. But now RGT is available on Apple TV and works well there. Hopefully they bring SYSTM into Apple TV soon.
@@SmartBikeTrainers somewhere in December last year wahoo officials said on wahoo systm forum that they are not working on Apple tv app.
I hope you are right and they can use RGT app witch work suprisingly good on Apple tv
Thx for a great video. Personally Not to keen to this trend of consolidation of service vectors into one app.
Sufferfest, as i view it, is an example. Everything comes into one mainstream service instead of keeping their unique profile and futher develop that.
Rather a lower price than having all included, why pay for things you don't use.
Now Zwift is trying to make some partnertship with Trainnerroad
Why do I have to have two apps on my tablet wahoo rat and wahoo system why not just wahoo x ,, I had rat first
I really want to get a magic road for the upcoming Ironman California ride, it's a 2 loop course so maybe it would fit within the distance limits, then we can just do it twice!
Tried RGT and while I love the graphics and physics more than Zwift, the truth is Zwift is a lot more engaging. RGT was always you against your shadow and Zwift also has the advantage of being the most recognizable platform with many non-cyclists using it, for example, people that ride non-smart trainers and could care less about outdoor cycling. RGT is still a cycling only niche.
I hope this prompts Zwift to up their game a bit. I think they have become complacent because they have a large customer base, especially in terms of the technical side of things, device compatibility, and the visual experience on some devices. I have bee riding with Zwift for about 16 months now and really enjoy it, but am reluctant to switch to Wahoo/RGT until I see more information on how both platforms continue to develop. I am too invested in the social side of Zwift to start over with a new platform, unless it is a big improvement.
@@atticushexcel9567 Calm down, dear.
The magic roads are supposed to be a plus for rgt. Zwift not having it is what makes zwift so popular. By "being limited to a few worlds" you have users concentration. You go to one of those limited few worlds and you have a lot of people around you and in events. By having theoretically infinite worlds you have most of your users scattered around. No fun for anyone. Rgt needs to kill the option to have events on magic roads (or kill magic roads all together).
Magic roads is one feature Wahoo seems to be really interested in. Personally, I don’t think it has much affect on how populated routes are on RGT as I don’t see many use that feature vs opening RGT and riding on one of the available routes. I do agree with you that limiting riders to ride on a few available routes what made zwift so popular despite people complaining about that. It makes it look more social and people seems to enjoy that aspect of zwift. Thanks for watching, Pedro 🙏🏼
As an legacy RGT user the price is an insult. This is just bumping the price by 5 euro without adding extra features to RGT. One of the most compelling things was the price. The price for Zwift and RGT is totally absurd to begin with, these are huge cash cows. I've played many games that look much better, have much more elaborate physic models and cost a fraction of these apps. Take for example Flight simulator 2020. It costs 48 euro one time cost without a subscription, looks muuuucccchhh better, has much more complex physics. These subscription based apps are a total rip off if you look at them from a game perspective.
Used to play flight simulator all the time. Love that game. Agree with you, they have a lot to improve in that area to improve the game physics and graphics.
@@SmartBikeTrainers It's not that I'm apposed paying a subscription it is just that it needs to in balance with what they offer. Currently I do not see where they invest our subscription fees, I think they make more than 95% margin which is totally excessive. That said I do have to praise RGT for offering a free option. They are "hiding" this feature better and better so let's see how long it will last. For now I'm reverting back to the free option and will make up my mind in the winter time to which platform I'm going to move. To me Zwift has the edge for now.
It’s like getting people to switch to different social platforms; it’s not going to happen unless there is something extremely revolutionary in the new platform, or there is something extremely lacking in the old platform. Zwift is still THE platform to train, race, and socialize. IMO.
My Wahoo and Netflix passwords are "SmartBikeTrainersRullz". I hope Wahoo doesn't see this. 👀
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