Wahoo Fitness CEO Interview: What failed, and what's coming in 2024?
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Last week while visiting Wahoo Fitness, I sat down with the founder and current co-CEO of the company, Chip Hawkins, for a wide-ranging interview discussing everything from past Wahoo initiatives (and failures), to the status of current products, as well as what the future brings. We covered a lot of ground, and rather than try and slice it down to a smaller size, I’ve just left the whole thing as one big interview. I’ve CZcams-chaptered the various portions linked below, though I think you’ll find a lot of it fascinating.
Here’s what we covered, noting that you can easily just listen to it podcast style in the background:
0:00 Quick Intro & Wahoo Company Size/Employees
0:40 Wahoo Docks vs Wahoo Fitness
1:52 Which Wahoo product is his true favorite
2:40 Future of Wahoo Rival watch?
3:46 Why are Wahoo products so expensive?
5:24 Why hasn’t Wahoo trainers changed design?
6:30 Why did the RGT acquisition fail?
7:46 Why did you drop lawsuit with Zwift?
9:02 What happens next with Zwift partnership?
9:57 What about how that impacts competitors?
10:56 Are open standards dead?
12:30 Why hasn’t the KICKR Desk been updated?
13:08 Plans for Wahoo CLIMB, Headwind Fan, etc…
13:33 Single favorite run/ride route in world?
15:15 Do you worry about fitness industry consolidation?
15:58 Where does AI work in fitness best today?
16:50 Why did you close Boulder sport performance center?
17:48 How is Wahoo structured geographically?
19:15 What’s Wahoo’s biggest market?
19:35 Is the indoor cycling industry recovering?
21:00 Are you hiring employees again?
21:50 How did Wahoo buy itself back from banks?
24:22 Is Wahoo financially sound now?
25:00 Why isn’t SYSTM on Apple TV?
26:02 Is the ELEMNT Bike GPS still competitive?
27:30 What’s coming in 2024?
#WahooFitness #SportsTech #Cycling - Sport
Appreciate the honesty of these answers rather than giving politician or marketing department style answers
So good to talk to a CEO that actually really knows his companies products.
It’s refreshing to see him talk openly about some the company’s missteps, challenges, etc. As a Wahoo customer, I’m honestly happy to see them focus more on hardware that integrates anything and everything, rather than trying to compete directly with Zwift.
What a great open interview, fair play Ray and what mutual respect Chip has for you too
Honestly one of the best videos you’ve made, for me. Kudos to Wahoo for the real talk too.
Thank you!
Strong conversation. I really admire how honest and open Chip is. Based on his answer to the Rival questions, I don't expect any more massive updates to the watch (like breadcrumb navigation).
I love such industry leaders interviews. I hope we see more of them
Thanks!!
Thank you for this, Ray! As a long time Wahoo user (KICKR V5, KICKR Climb, HRM, various dongles, Wahoo SYSTM and previously RGT), I was a bit worried about Wahoo’s future, particularly given the layoffs and the closure of the Boulder office. This interview has renewed my optimism in regards of Wahoo’s future. I find it regrettable that the fantastic coaches and sport scientists are gone, and the departure of the two core Sufferfest creators, as this will certainly impact the quality of future SYSTM workouts.
RGT I always preferred to Zwift. It's a bit of a pity that more people didn't adopt it. Climbing Stelvio was one of the nicest routes
Zwift’s got the network effect going for it… everyone I ride with is on Zwift in the winter. Plus the graphics on RGT felt off to me. Not that Zwift has great graphics or anything, but Zwift just felt more immersive to me.
Chris is amazing. His honesty and open nature is so refreshing rather than the set marketing lines of other CEO’s. This is a guy I believe really wants the best from his company rather than just serving the bottom line. I know what brand I’m going to buy when and where possible. Kudos Chris.
Who is Chris??
As a long-term Wahoo fan, I truly loved this honest and straightforward interview. Thank you, Chip.
It’s nice to hear about private equity failing, and even better to hear about a company I like succeeding afterwards.
Thank you, Chip and Team Wahoo, for agreeing to this format. You knew you were going to get some tough questions about some tough decisions, but you came on anyway and responded with candor and transparency, and without say-nothing corpspeak. That was just terrific (and extra to fun to watch on my new Bike Shift). It really sets you apart, and makes me as a consumer want to support your vision. Thank you, and great job Ray.
The only reference to Sufferfest was a bit negative re: compatibility to Apple TV. As a longtime Sufferlandrian I yearn for new Sufferfest content. We recently went back to Systm X having spent the past 2 1/2 year on Zwift. Riding some of the older Sufferfest vids was like coming home. Great content and even better workouts. More PLEASE!!!
Such a great interview. Thanks to Wahoo, Chip and DC for making this happen. It’s easy to forget that even though Wahoo is a big player, they are a small company. And little swings in the economy have big impacts on small companies.
Working in the retail bike industry, I can tell you that even the biggest retail shops are suffering under the glut of inventory they accumulated near the end of the pandemic. It’s one of the reasons Trek went to versions and away from model year. So they could sell a 2022/23 bike until inventory ran down and out.
I’m a Garmin user - except for a Wahoo cadence sensor and a 4iii power meter, everything I have on my bike and wrist is Garmin. That being said, I always found a synergy between the Garmin watches and bike computers kept them in sync and kept them ahead of the competition. Not being technically inclined I wonder why the Rival and the Wahoo bike computers aren’t more tightly coupled which would drive the innovation needed to keep the Rival in step with the competition.
Thanks again, Ray. Well done. I’m happy to be a supporter and someone who will continue to share your work.
I still love my Wahoo KICKR from 2014! I was an early adopter, and I can’t believe this thing is still working after all these years. Still one of the best purchases I ever made.
I was very impressed and pleased to see an honest interview from a CEO. He seemed genuine with company's success and also its failures. Excellent and informative interview DC Rainmaker.
Wow that was an astonishingly honest interview. You definitely asked some thorny questions and he gave honest answers. I own a Kickr Snap (boy I'd love to see Ray and others revisit some prior products and review from a 2024 perspective) and a Wahoo Bolt that has moved on to the wife bike. I also apparently have the best luck ever with their HR straps as my original one still works just fine.
Wahoo's first products involved iPhone accessories and it would be neat to have them go back to riding the back of that bear as it were from their small player perspective. Many of my friends really want the ability to just have their Apple Watch send HR to their bike computer. I heard mention of Apple Heatlh and a company that could bridge many of these areas with solutions for navigation, training analysis, coaching (perhaps from AI) and help glue it together with maximum simplicity might really do well going forward. I wish Wahoo well. I'm glad they survived the COVID bubble and look forward to what they have to offer going forward.
If RGT is truely dead, it would be nice to see them turn it over to the open-source community. I think it could become a great alternative platform with community support.
It would also be good to see an official collab with rockstar, like the plugin that already exists to ride in GTA V.
I think Chip said it best. It would take a lot, and I mean a LOT of resources to make it competitive to what is out there. Keep in mind there are at least six other platforms in progress or on paper than SYSTM or Zwift. Some are coming along with lots of money behind them as well. I think the original plan was to incorporate it into SYSTM but that proved unworkable. To keep developing it for the relatively small, but dedicated, audience was not financially responsible. To release it as open-source could be prohibited by the purchase terms. However, I definitely would like to see SYSTM expanded and for more user inputs in the forms of real world "no vid" workouts.
As I understood, it was part of the legal settlement that they killed it completely.
I liked to hear about the simplicity of the GPS. I tried a friend’s Garmin when my wahoo died and was horrified of the complexity. Please keep the wahoo gps as useable. And the best part is that Wahoo replaced my dead wahoo at no cost ! Great company !!
Ray this is one of your best , it would be great to see more of these interviews. Chip your honesty on all questions was great and I can see why your company is seen as one of the best in the industry despite its smaller size .
100% stick to simplicity (26 min). PLEASE do not go down the Garmin feature-bloat route ... after years of Garmin bike computers I switched and I just wish I'd done it sooner! Great honest interview by a CEO
This was such a fantastic interview, Chip just comes across as such a genuinely nice guy who is excited to create good product. I’m excited to see what comes in January!
I truly miss RGT as a training platform. One of the most realistic platform out there...
Any experience with Rouvy?
@@danielakerman8241Yes. That’s what Im using now. Still the ability to take a tight left turn without skidding in the ditch is beyond real physics. RGT auto-brake was really good…
@martindu4 have you tried IndieVelo? A lot of former RGT users have been looking at it from what I've heard and I think it's great.
@@danielakerman8241 I use Rouvy and like it a lot. I like the augmented reality with videos of real world routes better than the gaming aspect of Zwift.
In case Chip is checking the comments…..I love my Rival watch!
Good interview. It's the 2nd time I've seen Chip do this, and I gotta say it's refreshing to see him embrace the vulnerability of actually answering difficult questions. Interesting and entertaining to watch him squirm, but when you're in his position the tough questions are your job. Way to own it.
I really appreciate the interview and info, Ray & Chip. Great of both to make this happen and would be a treat to have maybe every year or two.
This interview actually made me feel better about the SHIFT I just bought from them. I’ll have to run around Rome someday.
Very good interview, Chip comes across well, as somebody who genuinely cares about the business and importantly the product.
That seems to be far more common with a CEO who founded a company. It's their "baby". CEOs who join the company later seem to focus far more on maximizing profit.
@@SecondPlaceInTheGeneticLottery Completely agree.
I was really getting into RGT before it got killed off. I find it interesting that he talks about not seeing growth in the platform after investing in it and shortly after (during another topic) he talks about how niche the trainer market is. It would of been nice to hear what he had to say about the marketing around RGT (and to some extent SYSTM). Kinda hard to talk about growth when you were'nt really marketing it or getting the word out there. I truely think that if there was more marketing RGT probably would of done better than it did. I know wahoo will never have the same marketing/legal budget that zwift has but anything would of been better that what they were doing.
> I use Wahoo watch every day
> But I will wear Apple Watch on the interview
lmao. Noticed this too. But to be fair, it was implied he uses it for exercising etc.
Great video! Much respect to Mr. Hawkins for doing the interview. If I sat down with him my comments would be as follows. My Wahoo Kickr has changed my life. I love it! I run a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt on every bike I ride. Again, very happy with it. However...the Wahoo Tickr HRM is, without a doubt, the worst POS product I've ever purchased in my 40+ years of riding! After buying 3 in 18 months I learned my lesson. I would honestly like to know how you and your design team have the guts to sell such a horrible product!
Wahoo's customer service is second to none. I wish them all the best!
This was a great interview. As a Wahoo Kickr owner, I've been very happy with the product: it's performance, mechanical reliability and ease of use. I had so many problems from the Elite branded products I used previously I was relieved to have something I can really count on every time I jump on the bike.
Thanks for this great interview! This is awesome. I’m not a wahoo customer, but I love the spirit of the CEO and I’m looking forward to seeing the good stuffs that will come in 2024!
Please continue this format, I love it!
Very interesting, insightful interview. I never would have thought Wahoo only has 200 employees! If I had to choose between Wahoo and a big conglomerate like Apple in terms of spending my fitness money, I'd choose Wahoo every time.
Great down to earth CEO. I love how they support their products for a long time. You pay more but you usually get the support. Thanks for the interview, he looked very transparent IMO.
Really great interview, probing but polite questions, honest and thoughtful answers, loved this!
Ray, this was an excellent interview,! The CEO seems very open about their past and future. Thanks for sharing!
I've been a Wahoo customer since the original Elemnt that is still working fine (now on the spinner) and have the Roam-v2 on my road bike. I still prefer the Wahoo Roam over the Garmin for ease of use and no touch screen. Great interview.
I'm a big fan of Wahoo products and after watching this honest, forthright interview, I'm an even bigger fan. Thanks for the great interview! Looking forward all you new products!
I would really like to see a workout builder in the element app. When I switched from Garmin I was surprised how big a PITA it was to build workouts to use on my Element Bolt v2.
I still dont understand why RGT didnt get more traction in the marketplace. I loved it even when there wasnt as much population, much better training and visual than zwift for half the price.
Big Wahoo fan here, thank you so much for the interview!
I'm married to Wahoo. My trainer, all my sensors and accessories are Wahoo. They make great products and stand behind them. Great customer service, too.
Very well researched questions and fair play to Chip for being so honest and open. I own both Garmin and Wahoo products and for me Wahoo is in a different league when it comes to support.
If no Rival 2 in the plans, I'd love to see a Wahoo - Coros partnership like Hamerhead and Suunto :)
This is a great idea, really think those two companies would be great partners
Well I just got my Kickr Move, Climb, and the Climb "Crock" and Play so whatever is coming in January, I sure hope it doesn't replace any of that! Great interview. I live a few miles north of Wahoo headquarters and have always wanted to visit. This was a wonderful inside look!
Great interview Ray. It’s great to hear the honest thoughts from the top at wahoo.
What a great interview! Nice work Ray. Really relaxed, detailed and entertaining.
I dig this dude’s transparency about his opinions. Very good. Happy to support the brand by buying their products. Kickr is a game changer.
Wahoo is a very stand-up company.. I say it all the time. I had a few problems with my second gen kicker. After a lot's of emails a few phone calls I sent it to them.The neww mother board cleaned this u, replaced belt, and shipped back to me in Flordia for free .
FYI I am still riding it and my kickr is still a strong machine
Thank you for doing this interview long over due But very well done.
Absolutely brilliant, hats off for doing this interview, look forward to more innovation, even if you don’t own anything by Wahoo their disruption of the market has made their competitors up their game, we should all be thankful to Wahoo, look forward to see what this new product is
I like the CEO. Good vibes. The end of the interview definitely was a foreshadowing of the new dreadmill. I’ll be inline to buy it once it comes out. Just have to get rid of my current dreadmill.
Very interesting interview, and super happy to be a Wahoo customer. Thank you Chip & Ray.
Great interview. I hope they will be coming out with the Zwift Hub for the Kickr
Great interview - really enjoyed the whole thing. Just read in your commentary that he is co-CEO - would have been interested to hear how that is playing out. We hear of places like Allbirds and it not necessarily working that well.
Totally agree with simplicity over lots of features with the elemnt. I absolutely love the bolt v2 and I think wahoo does an amazing job on updates.
Wish you asked about Light ANT+ support for ELEMNT. Shocked they didn’t roll it out with the updated ELEMNT sensor/home screen
I have become quite the wahoo fanboy. Glad the company is more stable, although as a multi sport athlete, I’m sad the watch is as good as it will ever get 😢
Thanks Ray, after that interview I understand Wahoo much better and appreciate where they’re coming from! #ilovenerds #embraceyourinnernerd
Big fan of wahoo systm here! I hope they do not cancel it any time soon. Really looking forward to apple tv compatibility and glad the legacy sufferfest videos are not left out!
Definitely wish there was another watch! They were so close with something simple but feature rich
This was great, Ray! Good to actually hear from the CEO after all the turmoil and rumors. I am excited to see what is happening in January.
When u expect nothing u cant be disappointed. :D
Great interview Ray! I love the Wahoo products, even down to the pedals. Interesting that the pedals did not come up in conversation.
Touchy subject, especially for us fans of the Speedplay Frog MTB pedal that was abandoned before the Wahoo acquisition, IIRC. We longtime fans of the Frog hoped, fruitlessly, that Wahoo would revive it at least for replacement cleats, but remain disappointed.
A lesson a CEO transparency! More of this please.
Nice interview! I second the simplicity with some better upgrades. DC rainmaker would make a good auditor and since i have been in external and internal audit, i can see him fill that role :)
What a great interview!! Thank you for providing this content.
absolutely incredible content. Thank you
Great interview! Thanks. But no mention of Speedplay?
I was a bit surprised those got left out too. Could just have been a matter of time or focus on more pressing topics?
The right questions and the right remarks. Good stuff!
Glad you asked the question about why the electromagnetic resistance unit hasn't translated to the trainer format vs the kickr bike. Not overly satisfied with the answer. Much of the R&D would have already been costed. Neodymium magnets are costly yes, but there's still space for a neo-like trainer. They just don't want to dilute the Kickr / Kickr move market share. The jump to the kickr bike is a different thing.
This is a great interview and I appreciate the openness and honestly of Chip and Wahoo. I already have some wahoo products and am always keen to hear about what's coming.
Great stuff. Thank you doing this
Great interview from both parties. I'd love to know if they're working on a virtual gear solution. In Australia we can't get the Zwift Hub, but I'd love to be able to use any bike with the virtual cog
Great interview - looking forward to see what Wahoo has in store....
Very nice interview, hopefully you can get more of these with the likes of Saris/Rouvy, Garmin/TacX, etc.
Brilliant Video. Thanks Chip. Thanks Wahoo for some wonderful products.
The only question I would like answered would have been this.
Virtual gear shifting, it comes as an update, also for the older KICKR or just for certain ones. And especially when?
Really enjoyed this, brilliant insight!
What a great interview. Some real / honest insight which surprised me.
Awesome interview. Hopefully a ride type feature like garmin has is coming so we can get auto assigned bike used to work on Strava. Right now it picks a bike I retired years ago. Still love my ELEMNT’s over my old Garmin.
Will kickr bike v1 get race mode? Zwift hub and some Elite trainers got it with software updates
Thank you
Yes to simplicity! KISS make it work well but keep it simple 😉
Great video. Love this type of video. Would love to see you interview people from the peloton, garmin, Apple etc.
Thanks Ray.
Thanks! Always game if they are!
Great interview, Ray! Given all the drama with finances, court cases, dropped products, etc., it was pretty impressive that Chip was willing to talk and be so open about everything. And then it turned into a massive teaser for January 😊.
Thanks!!!
@@Dcrainmaker It is mid Jan now - anxious to see the new product soon.
This dude looks really honest and he also looks like Demian Maia 👈
I would pay a yearly subscription to have an Apple Watch Ultra app that gives me mapping, training, recovery, etc, from wahoo. I would even switch my Garmin Edge to a wahoo if they communicate with each other. Imagine your wahoo mirrors your Apple Watch. 🙌🏼
Purchased the Rival, for the price it was awesome. But for about 4 days until one of the 5 buttons came out and it was done. Thought about getting another but just don’t know now. Let’s hope they at least fix the button issue.
Great interview, Ray 👍
Cool interview! Thanks for sharing!
Great interview, Ray!
Sounds like still investment in SYSTM, which is sooo good to hear. Visual and feature wise, I hope the player stays the same; it's clear and does what it needs to do. Doing workouts in Zwift, for example, is horrible. SYSTM's workout player is just right. And there's been a lot of concern about the future of SYSTM. Hope they'll be able to do more Sufferfest-style videos though...
And the most expressive eyebrow award goes to Chip Hawkins. He seems like a genuine dude though, which often doesn't go hand and hand with the title "CEO".
Loved this. Genuine questions, genuine answers ..
Thanks!!!
The craziest thing to me is that with all this talk about innovation, simplicity and focus on user experience they still don't have an option to use one of the the buttons on their bike computers to simply go BACK to the previous page 🙄
Great interview full of honesty my kickr after 4 years hard use is as good as new .. however really need a new bike computer. I have the karoo2 after the elemnt and ready for a new one which is non garmin !!
Should add a massive wahoo fan
Thanks Ray. This is fantastic.
Mr Ray, may I ask - with this new found detente, is there any thought of what might happen with the RGT routes, and whether there’s any chance those might get ported to zwift? The Belgian routes including Leuven, Cap Formenter, Templehoff, Pienza, Canary Wharf and Borrego Springs were always enjoyable rides. Thanks for reading