Spotting Red Flags for Furries, VRChat and more.
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- Thank you to all who helped me with this.
Part 2 is here-
• Spotting Red Flags PAR...
You can find my twitter here:- / vox_draconis
If you have any questions for me, I am con curious cat too:- curiouscat.live/Vox_Draconis
I agree people that want power tend to be the people who don't need it and us folks that don't want it tend to be the ones cleaning up their messes
I need power!!!! No, joking.
For me i always mess arround with that but i don't actually care for power, i care to make people happy and just have the laugh and giggles, vrchat is there to have fun with friends
I do agree... I am that person... I always want more power and then someone else who has more I try to get close to them or get jealous... Maybe it's Time I start bettering my self 😅😅😅
Welcome to Anarchism lolol
Indeed. There's a gun tuber in Texas that has decided to run for Congress because he hates the representative in his district but only wants to do one term. We need politicians that don't want the job.
I like to be controlled hahah
As someone who's on the autism spectrum, this video will hopefully come in handy. Social cues in general can be much more difficult to pick up on for me, and I would be likely to dismiss a red flag even if I think I pick up on it. So having a video like this where they're listed and explained can help to be more decisive when these situations come up.
THIS!!! I have so much trauma from ignoring so many of these flags (and even doing a few minor ones because I thought they were normal)
Autist here, had to deal with relationships that combined a lot of these redflags, honestly the worst experiences I've had on the internet.
At least I gained experience from it, and try to avoid these situations (and people) whenever it's possible, I've been feeling healthier than ever once I started avoiding those kind of people.
Take care brother, and if you find yourself in a situation like that, be strong, don't let people use you to their benefit, good luck out there brother ^_^
Im not diagnosed but I took a test as a joke and I scored scaringly high (I have ADHD too and I suck at social cues lmao)
that red flag about friend groups leaving kind of hits home. I'm not a very social person, but I do crave interaction, and usually have ONE friend in a group that I just kind of tag along with, and slowly branch out from there in their friend groups, trying to make friends. Well, if something happens to that friend, the "Anchor", then as far as my busted brain is concerned, I no longer have any reasonable way to approach the other friends. This isn't a "Woop guess im not friends with these guys anymore" it's the overbearing social anxiety that I am now left alone with people that are still strangers to me, even if they are friendly they haven't become close enough for me to completely trust.
This actually happened... semi-recently, as my best friend in VRC has just... disappeared. I managed to stay in contact with a handful of the people they introduced me too, unfortunately the only reason I was able to do so is that we were all trying to investigate and figure out what happened to That friend, but nobody has found anything in 10 months. This doesn't sound nice, however I hope they just.... did something dumb and got tossed in jail for a while, because the alternative thought has kept me from sleeping for 3-5 days at a time periodically. It has had such a profound impact on me that i've actually been afraid to get too close to people in VRC, because i'm afraid it might happen again (Which I know is silly, I'm just a bit insecure to put it.... very nicely)
I have a nasty habit of disappearing when not interacted with enough mostly due to how easily I can get distracted with any number of things, because of my lack of interaction with others (despite me enjoying it a lot) and my own mental disability I am not good with reading others, I often get stuck on a specific subject in a conversation even though everyone else has moved on, I repeat things that I have said over and over, etc... and I tend to think negative thoughts of what if I did something wrong it must be all my fault and they hate me. what really sucks about it all is that even though I know about it and tell myself that I'll do better, I often don't actually do what I said I'll do. so when I see a youtuber or content creator that I like I get the desire to become their friend and ultimately fail or realize that I can't since they are popular and probably have plenty of people trying that already. when I get a complement I can't get enough of it, I always want more and feel great when I do. Idk why since I'm not in a bad position in life (I'm even on the road to getting a job although a lil late at the age 22 ik its sad) my family care about me and treat me nicely but for some reason I just want more praise I don't understand. Maybe its my negative thoughts wearing me down or something and I need others to help me against it or something idk. Anyway I have been ranting on long enough I hope you all have a nice day.
@@davidmccall4024 I totally get that, and I feel like all I do is squirm my way around to getting compliments from people because I don't know how to navigate asking for them outright. I feel like I'm manipulating them, and it doesn't help that my status as both the gifted kid and the disabled/weird kid growing up has kinda made me only think of myself. I feel terrible about this, and sometimes it gets so bad that I get desperate to find some way to make a big sacrifice that helps someone else and hurts me. But stupid self-preservation won't let me :(
I had an entire friend groups disappear and been in that situation where it seems like I'm the victim. Turns out, I actually was an a-hole. I've tried to do my best to change.
one of the most understandable things i've read. mostly because i used to be like that.
I'm sorry...... I..... ummmm...... am...... uhhhh.... really.... really sorry... I..... don't know what to say....😢 I hope this is NOT the case but... ummm was that said friend umm... at any point of locations where tragic events took place recently... oh god I hope their alright
As much as I love the fandom and how wonderful most of it is. It’s still important to remember that there are some really scary and dangerous people out there. Just like with every fandom it is important to be careful with who you hang out with.
Yeah, I had a couple stalkers on SL and they tried doxxing me but thankfully my aliases are all over the place. Also hello fellow jackalope!
what is SL?@@Zombuny
@@Zombuny Hello fellow Jackalope ^^
Stay safe out there 🙏
@@anomalousanimates Second Life, most likely
Uhhh, I don't know about it being just another fandom. I don't think you're getting hit up by dog sexing, pushy gay dudes over in the Knitting Doilies fandom.
About the boundaries thing, I am uncomfortable with people I do not know being sexual towards me, or even around me. I keep that between myself, and the people I trust. Furries in VRC really seem to think it's just OK to go up to someone they just met, and say "Holly crap your avatar is hot, I'd do things to you". This isn't JUST a boundary thing, it's also just the assumption that everyone is OK with such behavior in this fandom.
Another thing too, people need to be more willing to speak out when others may not be able to. More than once, I've frozen up when faced with a situation that bothers me, and people recognize that, but instead of speaking up, they just walk away. SPEAK OUT WHEN SOMEONE GOES TOO FAR DAMN IT.
Edit: I also need to add that I am in the "makes conversations about themselves" category, unfortunately. It's often my way of attempting to understand others, by linking similar experiences with their own, and not malicious. I'm glad you did include it though, and were nice enough to mention that some people are just very awkward.
This is me to a T. I get very uncomfortable with people I don't know being sexual towards me no matter the context. I too struggle with being made to feel obviously uncomfortable in situation with multiple parties involved and everyone just sits back and lets it happen. This says a lot about those people though. There's a high possibility that all of these people involved think this behavior is ok. Not just that they won't speak up about it. I ALWAYS speak up about it. Asking if the person who I perceive to be the victim feel uncomfortable and silencing those who try to speak over them. Some people can be made to feel trapped.
I understand completely to attempting to understand others and in hopes that me sharing my similar experiences help them to see that I can understand where they are coming from or correct me if I misunderstood. I feel it should just be part of normal conversation to connect with others but most people just see it as rude and attention hog behavior. I don't really like attention. Lots of attention makes me VERY uncomfortable.
I'm pretty new to VR and just have no idea what I'm doing most of the time. It is just as difficult if not more difficult to navigate social interactions in the context of VR because many people treat it as a completely anonymous avenue for crappy behavior.
@@myrchantkobold8268 Sexual discussion has a time and place. And that time and place is not around me, period. If people can not respect my boundaries, they can go away. Myself and many others like me were subjects of abuse in the past, but I'm not going to go around telling everyone about my trauma.
I am not asking for people to "act like they're in church" but you certainly wouldn't randomly talk about your dick getting sucked in a McDonald's, would you?
I also don't need some random douchebag who can't take no sexualizing my avatar, which I use to help me feel comfortable in my body. Being an adult also means knowing the appropriate times for such things, and it's most certainly not appropriate around strangers.
That's because you shouldn't ever get sexual with someone if they don't reciprocate the willingness to talk about it. The very moment that you attempt to start a sexually charged conversation with someone and they don't reciprocate the energy, you stop immediately, even with an apology potentially, or it's completely inexcusable if you push any further. There's absolutely nothing that can make it right past that point.
And that's just for talking about those things in general, not directing the sexualization toward that person, which is far worse. Unacceptable to do so unprompted and without building up to it organically, and that's after making clear that you aren't breaking any law. Never something that can be acceptable with a new acquaintance, let alone a stranger. That belongs specifically to places for one night stands and hook ups. And reciprocation is key.
I've never understood furries's ease of dialing those things up to 11, 5 minutes after meeting you, and i'm pretty damn open minded. You just played a game with them, you add eachothers on Discord, then boom you get 50 NSFW images right off the bat. WTF? It's not gonna bother me personally, but i don't agree with it at all from a manner standpoint, under any context other than somewhere explicitely dedicated to that purpose, and even then you don't just jump into it, period.
The boundaries thing is a major issue in the furry community, especially when it comes to being openly sexual towards other people. Even outside of VRChat, furries are so commonly sending twitter dms or whatever and just opening up with immediate ERP and stuff. It's so prevalent that young kids getting involved with the fandom see older people behaving this way, and then think that this is how you act with other people, making it worse and repeating the cycle.
The community needs to clean up this behavior, as it also makes it even easier for predators to exploit kids in the community, but I don't know where you'd even begin getting an entire group of people from all over the world to actively change like that.
Being friends with kids is fine, but you just have to realize that their kids
You can’t treat them the same way as adults and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU BE ATTRACTED TO THEM
This. More than once too, have I stepped in and stopped people who were openly messing with kids in a very bad way. Often times too, people don't know ages of others, so they just ASSUME, and someone needs to be like "Hey uh... that person has their age in their bio, so stop that."
A lot of people are just too willing to ignore that, or just don't notice such things, and then, because everyone avoids the younger people, they get hurt and exploited, rather than protected.
I think people forgot about adults and kids being friends in person too, so it’s just become “so you are friends with someone that young/old?!?! Gross!”
Yeah, I kind of sucks
I’m a minor and I have some good friends that are adults (family friends but still)@@Sp3ctralI
I see 18yr Olds being heavily against doing anything with someone even a year under them.
Like being a nonce means any interaction with a minor makes you one.
Which is weird because it's a game and VRC is pretty much the only game I've seen people be so adamant about not interacting with minors to the point I ask them if they have issues keeping their dick in their pants and are just protecting themselves.
Because you ain't gonna play a single public game of murder or prison escape without a minor being in there.
@@0zymandias_666 nobody cares gramer nahzee
All these red flags happen everywhere not just furry fandom or vrchat.
Either way good video, arming people with info is always a good step as the harder it is to control people the less likely it will be (Just look at scams as an ensample)
the "all my friends left me" one. theres another, more valid reason for it i have seen a fair few times first hand. they are a victim of narcissistic abuse. people who are victims of narcissistic abuse sometimes have a hard time forming proper attachments, and feel like everyone is abandoning them.
Not to mention that abusers are very much capable of turning entire groups against a person.
I would also like to add that some people are just to lazy to hangout with some of their friends or they end up having to many and can't keep up, so they eventually stop seeing them. Its not always for selfish evil reasons, That's why I would give it a 6/10
Seriously, people who lie about their age are sad as hell, and especially the adults who pretend to be kids are the biggest creeps ever and probably up to something super illegal.
DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THESE GUYS!!!!
We also can't forget the teens/kids that pretends to be adults... in my humble opinion its as/or even more destructive as adults pretending to be teens/kids.
kids are always going to pretend to be older than they really are for the perks that come with being older. That’s just how kids are. Adults should know better then to pretend and be a kid.
@@jasonkirbo4761 It's oftentimes easier to question them of their real age, when you hear their voice enough to tell it is not a voice of an adult. Of course however some people have convincing voice enough to assume they are adult.
But then again, if unsure always ask to prove age or desist.
Some kids just don’t want to be viewed badly, especially after having experiences with people ridiculing them for being young. I have experience.
@@HyperWraithMM Who cares? You never pretend to be an adult to 'fit in' with adults, period. That can ruin an adult's life because the things you say around adults are VERY different than the things you say around kids.
I used to work at a summer camp, so whenever I'm in a group situation where there are multiple age groups, my first instinct is to make sure all the kids present are safe, feel included, and are having a good time. I never considered that it could come across as creepy
its harder these days to interact with children without it being potentially flagged as creepy - but there is a BIG difference between hanging out with kids being a creepy thing and being just... hanging out with some kids.
You treat them AS children. You are an adult and you are taking a passive, minor but adult role in their playspace.
You arent pretending to be a kid, you aren't trying to engage with them entirely on their child-like level as 'one of them' - you are more focused on keeping everyone safe and happy as they play their games, not manipulating their expectations into becoming their bestest ever friend.
You are trying to make a small trust connection with them that they can tell you some things - like that another kid is being mean to them, or another adult is being a bit weird, and hopefully you are a mature enough adult to know the best way to help them in such situations.
None of that is creepy. That's how ANY adult should act ANYWHERE there are children. If you walk past a playground you are, at some tiny level, directly involved with keeping all the kids there safe - by acting if something bad happens.
A VRChat room is even more involved. You aren't their parents or their caregivers but as a bystander you still have some responsibility over their playspace being non-damaging to them.
Skills from being a summer camp worker are perfect for such an environment. I don't think you should be considered creepy for that, so don't worry too much about it.
Exactly! I have a parent type of mindset due to my own issues growing up. I’ll do what I can to make sure that kids are safe from what I’ve experienced. Whenever parents throw a headset to a child at the age of 13 or below, I try and convince those who are under the age of TOS that it’s not safe to be on VRC, and those who are between 13-18 I try to do my best to raise them as a parental figure. Sadly though, people have tried to label me as a creep when I’m not.
maybe state that it is instinct from your past job to make sure all the kids are safe
summer camp isnt vrchat. you can see each other and you know who you are dealing with. and you are a caretaker, not some random person from the internet.
A person being overly supportive or caring isn't always them being narcissistic or being a narcissistic person sometimes it is the result of trauma from growing up with a narcissistic parent or legal guardian who taught them that their needs didn't matter and they only received affection when they did something to be useful and as a result grew up feeling like thier needs were secondary and that people would only like them if they proved useful as that was the only way they ever gained affection growing up, this would cause them to ignore thier own needs in order to focus on the needs of others, yes it is true that narcissistic people will act very caring and supportive in order to feed thier own egotistical natures, but usually the way you can tell the difference is by how forthcoming the person is about thier own needs and wants, the narcissistic person will gladly ask for stuff from you, while the person doing it as the result of trauma will go out of thier way to pretend like they don't have needs as they are afraid that they will be thrown away the moment they prove even the smallest inconvenience for others, a fear that is often reinforced by true narcissist who take advantage of people like that
Honestly this is the internet in a nutshell. Not just furries. I have seen it all over because people generally have the same hangups regardless of identity, gender, or race.
I once lied about my age (I lied about being an adult) , wanting to feel included but in the end it was not worth it in any way, I ended up losing the friend I lied to just so I was included and a bunch of others. Never until then have I thought it was bad or anything, but now I regret ever doing it. Its not worth lying
Some lessons just need to be learned through experience. :)
my grandma, when i was a kid, once said to me: a lie is like a tiny snowball you left to rolldown a mountain, you think its insignificant at first, but down the line, it can and will cause a disaster to you and everybody involved.
Similar thing here. After being insulted for being "just some dumbass kid," I started lying about my age for a while to feel included and have equal respect. it led me to things I regret, but I still understand why younger me did it. It's overal tragic
i recently had my own issue with a person that was super narcissistic on NeosVR, isolating people, calling everyone a pedo just because they didnt hang with them and always playing the victim with so many victim stories. it was very hard for me to notice or break out of the situation because i am not so social and have extremely bad social anxiety and social cues but after my other friends being targeted it broke it wide open and blocked them and they also got perma banned from Neos thats how bad it got.. it was quite the social challenge for me.
Ill share this video to who i can see possible isolating or controlling over them so they can also see the red flags. Thank you Vox for making this video
Jeez thats bad and whats worse is it caused damage too! Glad they got rid of em cause those people are the worst
That’s horrible! 😔
hugs
Was it a certain bunny fellow?
Cause I recall seeing someone throwing out wild accusations like that in that echo chamber telegram server Karel had made for himself, and they even mentioned having gotten banned from Neos.
@@DarnHyena yes
Sometimes I accidentally violate boundaries after spending too much time around people without those boundaries in my life, there's been a few instances that I've felt bad about.
As long as you communicate that to other I think its fine
Another ending to the “seeking power” situation is that person nuking the group by mass kicking, muting, or messaging, or even just deleting the group altogether.
I cannot emphasise how much "violation of insignificant boundaries" is a HUGE one to keep an eye out for. All of my friendships that went downhill STARTED with that. I particularly remember a case wherein I gave my entire college schedule to an American friend of mine - because they kept ringing me in the middle of class. I gave them that entire schedule, with the times changed to reflect their timezone, as a "hey, DO NOT call me during these times". I figured it was just them not fully understanding timezones, but they kept up even when I gave them all of that information of when I was available and when I wasn't. It's especially common in the online space because people tend to have this disconnect when it comes to online friends and they forget that they might also have school, work, etc.
Not a bad video but the use of the word “narcissistic” to describe bad people really bothers me. People with narcissistic personality disorder are not all bad people so we shouldn’t use narcissistic to describe bad people without any knowledge of who they actually are. It’s perpetuating a horrible stigma and I wish people would stop using terms like these without actually knowing what they mean.
this a million times, im glad someone mentioned it
Sociopath and psychopath are probably better terms to use in these instances.
Hey... Your compassion video reached deep down... it was touching...
Before VR I had a Narcissistic friend who was my only friend for 2 years, he gas lit me a lot, made me feel sht... said the only way to improve was no ego, but to make yourself feel horrible to push yourself, make yourself seeing yourself as sht.... I confronted him about it and he just denied it, said I was lying...
But.... My friends on vr helped me... it was traumatic...
Coming to VR gave me a new mission... a new view on my life...
I want to be a good person... I want to influence others to be better versions of themselves... I want whoever I hang with... to say "wow... that guy is trying to be someone who cares... someone who is trying to fix people... to see that they are amazing.... I want to be like him"
That's what I want to give... I'm always worrying about my friends... about how I can be a better person...
Little do I wish... people would do that for me....
Your compassion video made me want to help people more....
I want to have an effect on people that if one day we ever went our separate ways, they'd remember me for being one of a kind on vrchat...
One day I want to make TikTok or CZcams content like you... I want to be amazing... I want people to see that if they try... they can be good people....
Your amazing man... keep making content.... ❤ I WILL make content as good, if not better than you
(I'm not trying to rub in, pls don't misunderstand)
I just want to be inspirational... I want when people to see me... they will try harder... and see the furry community in a better light....
This community brought me out of the pits of my deep depression...
My friend fcked me up badly.... Furries changed me... made me reimagine who I want to be... made me question my sexuality.... They fixed me in a way....
This I will never forget...
This community means so much to me....
Especially when I'm from a home which has the stigma "if your gay, god says your going to hell"
It scared the fck out of me.... trying to control my decisions and all...
Vrchat changed my life for the better... I had no friends in High School and being Neurodivergent....
It liberated me knowing there are people like me.... people who care... people who are nice.... this fandom is amazing....
Ty for ur videos.... Hopefully you don't see me as a red flag 😢
Keep being you man... I just hope one day we can meet maybe..... You seem amazing to hang with....
ONE DAY I WILL BE AMAZING... ONE DAY I WILL IMPACT LIKE YOU DO
A lot of people are sad in the furry community. I wanted to help or cheer them up but I am shy. So I used a Rex avi and made it look as real as possible like a cute animal when people would pet or cuddle me. I developed head movements with phantom sense and it melts people and made them happy to see such a cute furry.
I hope I meet someone like you in VRChat or Rec Room or something.
@@wolfeprocterlikewise 😊
@@strawhatwolffy4701that's an interesting concept, lucky for phantom sense friend :)
Wonder what the avi is based off of
@@DDagove well down side. It’s addictive because of the very nice relaxing feeling I get when people pet me. It’s like a relaxing massage and I get dazed and put to sleep. It’s a gift and a curse. But I have something everyone wants in VRC. But can your body learn it? Some can’t.
On telling other people you're a good person, there is a something I want to bring up. There is another possibility: people who are trying to be the best person they can be, but also have massive self-confidence issues and need reaffirmation, even from themselves. This applies to me personally; I might not go around introducing myself as "the nice guy," but I do try to be the best person I can be and help people. If asked, I will tell others that it's my goal in life to better as many other lives as possible. This is partially because it's a pretty common fear of mine that I'm failing or letting other people down, when I most likely am not; a bad habit of thinking that leads me to judge myself very negatively. By repeating that I want to do my best to help others, I reaffirm my goals to myself by saying it out loud. I'll even talk about it in private, to help keep my mind on the goals I have set for myself.
This is, however, a good point and not something to take lightly. I just don't want you to be *too* harsh. Sometimes, someone isn't a narcissist, but is just painfully uncomfortable in their own head and terrified of doing the wrong thing.
I 100% agree, I'm almost exactly the same way, which is why his rating and explination of that red flag pisses me off, he's only pulling from his own experiences and not considering the bigger picture, now people are going to assume we are narcissists because we exhibit similar traits. Not saying that what we have is not a red flag, its definitely a toxic mentality that people like us need to work on, but it surly has nothing to do with narcissists, and certainly not that high!
@@loggior.speedweed4345 Agreed, but I don't let it piss me off. He likely just doesn't know people who fit attitudes like ours, and that leads him to this conclusion. Because yeah, there are people out there who fall into that category; I won't pretend like hyping yourself up as "the good guy" is a good sign, but there's more to it than black and white.
One more thing that I’d like to add to your really well thought out list. When people turn everything into a competition. I have legitimately heard arguments over “who is more of a lesbian” and “who likes to build computers more.” You can never have a genuine conversation with this kind of person. They will always find a way to make you feel like you don’t actually like the same thing they do because they somehow have to like it more. It’s also a really good gateway for them to brag about everything that they’ve done, which isn’t always a red flag. It’s just part of narcissistic behavior that is often seen when people have to turn everything into a competition. 8/10 - sometimes it’s really fun to have cute banter with your friends, however, for someone who constantly has to make themselves feel better by making you feel like you’re not good enough is not cute.
Zoos can also be non furry
...wait ...
...nope.... nope nope nope- NO
@@myrchantkobold8268call em animal fuckers, can't be any more clear then that
@@keithsimonhYou realize those people predate the furry community right????
Get this man on the home page
Its on mine
Appeared on mine too
The "Friends just stop talking to me" Part, happens too often to me. I know I can come off as needy, or in some cases either negative about myself or an attention whore. However, I did find some friend groups that tolerates me and even help me out of my own funk. Some times, these friends that stop talking to me or ghost me most times, claim they're too busy or whatever. I give them space and say hi every once in a while, but I know if they don't want to hang around me for whatever reason, I'll just leave myself. I am getting better at having self-confidence in myself, and loving myself, which also retained some friends that left me, so, I get it.
exactly, and let me add, if you ever run into someone who doesn't know why their friends ghosted them, don't drill into them for it, that's stupid and invasive, even if you ever get your answer, they probably won't wanna be your friend after that.
I mean it's important to also note that I had a bit of an issue with saying being unable to explain it is definitely the fault of the person who had their friends drift away or abandon them. I know I've been on the other end and can recall who and why, and often it was just me having my own issues I can't deal with at the time, and for them it would be wrong place, wrong time. But when it's fairly common in your life, where people are often not keeping in touch with you or making an effort on their end, it's not one thing. And that can be frustrating to explain to someone because you couldn't truly say why for all of them. I know I have personal issues, and not everyone will get along with me, but even if I know some of the instances of what my flaws could be, because people will give you different answers, including contradictory ones about why they stopped talking to you, it's understandable to not always know the answer. I guess if someone just straight up says they have no idea and won't elaborate, the red flag for me would be they don't reflect at all on their behaviour or past. Not that those other people didn't have their own issues, and didn't abandon them.
Hanging out with kids is so true. I once attended an event and noticed a child joined in. They even stated in their bio that they're twelve years old. So I approached the host and told them a child who's too young to even play vrc joined and their response was "Yea he's our buddy we invited him" Mind you the host was about 30 years old and was constantly hanging around that kid.
This video helped out alot, I wish I found this video sooner, bc I found out I was in a relationship with a total narcissist, he was using me for both my compassion and sympathy, as well as for sexual gratification. It felt as if I was trapped, so I eventually found and opportunity to break up with him, furthermore, I feel like I'm hanging out with other narcissists, bc a majority of my friends don't really put the same amount of compassion and sympathy like I do for them, I feel like I'm being used everywhere I go, and it hurts... Thank u for shedding light into my terrible situation, and I hope the best for u.
i hope the best for you, maybe move to a more friendly environment with less bad people and more kind and helpful people who will care for you as you do for them
I highly recommend get into some counseling or therapy with a licensed professional to safely talk things over. Not only can they help you identify if those are the situations you may be dealing with, but also help you to figure out if you're inviting those relationships and tools/strategies to protect yourself from it happening again. A way to 'check up' on future relationships might be helpful, too, so you're not held back by doubts. You might be able to check with your work, school, or insurance to see if they cover sessions! Good luck, and either way, I hope things go well for you!
@@RaethFennec The therapists I get are kinda just glorified doctors, all they did was prescribe me meds for my ADHD, no inline mental therapy to help me alongside the medications. I also already know this is the case since I've never met someone who doesn't just care about themselves, all they want to talk about is stuff in "their group", and screw anyone else outside of it... It also hurts that I get treated like garbage when somebody has a "negative opinion" of me, and a long time friend of mine, who of which I won't name and have since befriended him, took that opinion as their own and aggressively took it upon themselves to "put me in my place"... So I'm gonna be the person to bully back, bc I'm tired of being the one that's bullied.
@@electrothecat Wait but if you bully back then people will be more inclined to believe them. I deal with the same crap. My family nickname Kiwi was turned into a sex joke so i could be everyone's entertainment. To the point where i was stalked by a group of girls saying things like, "Kiwi kitty~~ we just want you to be our kitty~ come on were just playing~! You should wear a shock collar maybe youd curse less~" it's awful. And I'm tired of being hyper sexualized. It like im they're fetish. But i don't do that to them because it would back fire. They'd probably say something like, "Yes Mommy/Daddy~~" ew. Just ew. Now i know thats not the same thing as your situation. So feel free to stay firm with yor boundaries and defend yourself. But keep in mind that some things could back fire!
The closing thoughts were really important.
As an adult with not much free time I'm finding it difficult to find friends in VRchat because either they are all young with all the time in the world and because of the age difference (I'm 32) we have almost nothing in common... OR... I find that one unicorn but he/she has the same amount of free time like me which means we are almost never online at the same time and even when they are there are loads of other people that want to meet them so I just leave their instance after saying HI. Being an adult with responsibilities sucks sometimes. Maybe thats why I'm often a mute ... just hurts when you connect amazingly with people one day and then a week later they are gone(just like me when real life takes over)
The whole nice person part gave me the creeps because I knew someone like this, then they turned out to be a known creep in multiple fandoms that they were shunned from. Very much so, strings were always secretly attached to their “favors”. I can’t wait until they’re entirely shunned off of VRC, which is soon (hopefully).
The whole perception thing too! The most I do is explain my experiences, but I also tell people it’s their choice to stay friends with them if they wish to as long as I don’t get stuck between crap.
It's an entire damn archetype. The "nice guys/girls". Those who always finish last. Tend to be redpilled incels with "strong traditional values", a victim complex, and inferiority/superiority complexes.
Personally I'm slightly the "conversation is only about one" person, though not on purpose/maliciously, for me it's a natural habit I go to because my mind will instantly think _"hey, you did this too! you could tell about them, they will for sure be glad/happy/excited about the fact that you did something related to something they did/like!"_ but of course I don't say it every time some piece of information comes up
Also, I met an adult that hangs out with kids. I honestly have no idea if I'm the only one - I severely hope so - but I was about 13-14, playing VRChat, and he was in his 30's. Sexual jokes appeared almost immediately, teasing by whispering in a deeper voice (with me getting nervous), though he ended up helping me get rid of another person I really shouldn't have been talking to. We were friends, though I knew something was wrong. At some point he stopped playing VRChat, but I still have him on both my Discord and VRC friend list, hoping he won't come online again. And all of this because I couldn't (and still can't) just say "no" or "don't do this". Yes, adults can talk with children online normally, but the jokes and conversation topics *HAVE* to be adjusted to the child's age. No, telling them they're mature (which I've been told) doesn't do the job of excusing sexual or NSFW in general topics.
It's good that you do this, pointing out a lot of the red flags that are in our community can be a definite must and bringing it face forward is important, not only to point out the warning signs for a potential red flag but to talk about it... keep doing what you do, you are an inspiration.
7:20
People should always keep in mind, that sometimes groups just disassociate slowly, especially when the friend group consists of teens/Young adults that are slowly starting to go to college, get a job, etc and cannot find a time to keep friendships,
Or
Some people with ADHD may also drive people away without noticing as a result of multiple factors like not having the energy tp interact with them on a regular basis
"We don't live in an ideal world, do we? It's a rather sobering thought... isn't it?"
That quote left me staring at my black screen for a couple of seconds with goosebumps on my whole body.
The closing thoughts might be the best thing i heard this year. Figuring out how to hang out with other furries without getting pushed out cause i have like 3 friends i mostly hangout with online but are not furries so learning how to start solo is not easy.
I just go with the flow figure out culture and go to events to up my odds to actually chat. Its how i meet sorin and CD.
It’s scary how often I run into people like that on VRC. Often it’s popufurs who act like the most important person in the instance, and take advantage of their fans wanting to play with them to please their ego. I hate it so much. What’s scary is *not many* people notice the narcissism in them. (Not every content creator is like that of course)
It's so crazy how this checks so many boxes of an ex friend of 11 years (it wasn't on VR chat) but she tries to cover it up by saying she's just "depressed and has BPD" but literally never got diagnosed. She constantly lied and I started to catch them near the end of the relationship. What made things break was, she tried making me get into a poly relationship with her knowing my partner is not interested in poly and proceeded to threaten to "end the friendship" because of it.
Needless to say, I hate how it took me 11 years to realize it was pure narcissism 😅
Loved the video, really helps me look back at past experiences and realize some things about some people I used to hang with. If I ever gain the courage to hop on VR chat and adopt my own avatar I’ll definitely have to use these points. Btw still can’t get over how absolutely adorable your sona is!
Gosh, I wish I had heard about the thing of "someone saying that their whole friend group just left them and they don't know why" red flag sooner. Not specifically VR chat, but on discord I had someone say that to me, and I felt bad for them, but I eventually learned WHY they lost a bunch of friends. Had an issue with them freaking out and screaming at me whenever I would say something nice to another person. (Probably having a narcissist moment of "no one else is allowed to be good, only me!" type of deal going on) It came so out of left field.
I get you on the red flags for narcissists. I'm always on the look out for those. The moment someone demonstrates narcissism, I stop talking to them full stop and don't explain why. I just dip and move onto people who won't give any stress or unwarranted drama. Since doing that, life has been easier, but like you said, narcissists always find new ways to hide their traits. I wish they wouldn't. If they could be honest and let people filter into their preferred types of friends that would be great, but that is everything a narcissist isn't. Truthful and what not.
I liked the tips you gave. It's def some things I look out for too.
This was an amazing video! That last quote was honestly BONE-chilling. New subscriber and I hope to see more well put together content like this in future!
Thank you so much for this video! Meeting new folk on VRC is kinda hard sometimes, but seeing red flags at the start saves time for me!
thank you VoxDraco for such an informative and interesting video
some of these flags remind me too much of a person who i used to call friend, and a business partner
through him i learned some of the flags the hard way, i cant imagine how it is to have a thorn on your side but here i am.
before i left him to deal with his clothing brand to his own, whether to shut it down or blatantly keep it for himself, he would always try to change my perception on how i see people bc its always the "OH hes my ex, he abused/cheated on me", "i got forced to do acts", etc. to even telling me "oh you keep on joining lobbies where theres people i blocked/got blocked by".
he kept saying how he doesnt have friends on his social media, how his day is ruined, how explicitly saying how he ran into an ex, etc etc.
he would also block you for the following:
- if youre associated with (recreational) substances
- associated by being friends with someone he hates
- to even simply vaping
now, after i called him out publicly as to HOW MUCH of the credits has been stolen from me, his former 3d modeler for his techwear clothes, by him, he blatantly dared to put our personal info out to even claim false narratives, which honestly i kinda dug up a hole hes burried himself into, people have approached me about having history with him, to even asking him about the claims only for the questioner to end up being blocked, in short, not providing evidence where as i did.
i rarely get upset over anything but his victim mentality REALLY gets on my nerves, blames how its other people's fault despite the blame shouldve been on him
i sorta breathe the same air as this pathological liar now but should i be bothered too much by it? unless hes planning stuff against me, of course not, hes not really worth my time and energy
My reason for losing all kinds of friends and friend groups is that I have ADHD, and I forget to get a hold of people and I get distracted easy so then I go months without talking to them, and they forget I exist 😂😢
Thank you for taking the time putting this together. Some of it can still be a bit subjective, but such is the nature of topics like these. But I feel ultimately it is important to share such knowledge as you say.
I've been in the fandom since the Furcadia days in the late 90s and sadly some things just never change. Though, I suppose in a way that has the advantage of making such people easier to identify. At the end of the day, we really need to use our best judgement when dealing with others in addition to keeping subjects like this in mind.
I appreciate you making a video to help people alert everyone about this as a kid I suffered through narcissistic abuse from my aunt and uncle whom weren't the best people.. so. Thank you so much for passing down your wisdom to help others regardless have a awesome day
You are so on point with so much of this, it's so often you see people throwing around these terms and just talking out their butt and being totally wrong on it.
I was coming into this video and thinking, "meh it'll be entertaining at least" but wow blown away, you've either studied this or you've had some real rough experiences you've had to learn from, with your epilogue it sounds like the latter.
Hopefully this video will protect people from whatever you've been through in the past, so in some small way something positive will have come of your experiences.
Your videos are always eye opening and makes me take consideration of how I been during my encounters with other furs
"Compassion with wisdom", these are sage words and make perfect sense. Wisdom is a sum of experiences and without these experiences I don't think you can truly be compassionate, not completely anyhow. Empathy and compassion I think go hand in hand, and again without wisdom/experiences, one can't really know the value empathy and compassion and give those to others when it's needed.
I loved this video, the message, the tone, the delivery. Thank you and I hope it really does help to spread some awareness. As a VRC player myself (although not a furry), I think it's fair to say that everything said here extends to every corner of vrc irregardless of the type of community. I've seen this plenty myself already.
BTW, love your avi ♥
I really wished I found this video last year when I started coming out of my shell and getting to know people in this fandom. One of the worst times of my life because I was both dealing with a narcissist and someone who only saw me as a sex object (and used me as one). It was one of my first relationships and that was unfortunately the way it had to go ): Still healing, but IM stronger than ever. Stay safe out there ya'll.
I have had furs tell me someone is crummy, and it turned out to be true. So that one is not a red flag for me. I would need to find out for my self but when I have like 7 or 8 furs telling me the same thing I often find out the hard way.
Ayo! This was the first video the algorithm served up to me, Vox. Good work, slammin' that like and sub button ba-BOW!
Anyway...As a married-fur in my mid-30s with too much time in VRChat, I prefer to argue VRC is a social platform more than a 'game' - but I've seen quite a many of these things. It's still worth the risk/trouble for some of the real friends you'll have years later. :P I'm glad you've made such a concise and well informed vid on this subject!
Commenting to comment so my comment drives more comments as this bean deserves all the comments.
True
Very interesting video, I would like to see more of it. The ending was deep and honest. Thank you for content, Vox.
the zoophile icon is used by one college as a frat house logo, but if a furry has it, I avoid them
[I won't be replying to any zoophiles, MAPS, or anyone who'd get me arrested for supporting in the united kingdom]
now the hanging with kids thing boils down to "it depends". the circumstance you mentioned is usually a red flag, yes, but there are some if's and buts (obviously). People like age regressors tend to mingle with some younger people as that can help with a reflected mentality. Whereas others can actually simply be- though rarely; pure. I wouldn't say its a 10/10 but its definately a "keep a watchful eye for any alarmful behaviour, but for some cases, your opinion is infact correct.
Edit: yeah this video is a risk, but it does allow others to be aware of situations and people they need to stay away from and things that are a big nono, narcisists are dangerous and its important to notify people that not everything is right with the world, so good on you for getting this out. keep up the good work
Doing important work here, thank you.
Really hate that zoophiles co-opted ζ, some of my early 'sonas had that symbol on them, just because I liked the aesthetics. Had to drop it to avoid association when that started to happen. Especially since that was during a time on my life when I couldn't pay as much attention as I used to, so I got blindsided by it.
Generally, you could apply this to really anything. Granted, these points are very important and specific to this fandom (and that zooming out and applying it to everything makes it very general) it is still good to be in the know and aware of what is going on
The one about hanging out with kids and "age doesn't matter" was word for word one of my (now ex) friends, including the public lobbies. Their entire friends list (100-200+ people) was roughly 80% people who were 12-15 and they were like 20+. When I called them out on it they said it made them uncomfy to talk about and there was nothing wrong with it and then they ignored me for a few days. Finally cut complete contact with them when one of the minors (who was 13 at the time) told me said (ex)friend had pulled a NSFW avatar out and chased the kid with it. They also would flirt with the kids "in character" and encourage them to flirt with other adults (I had 2-3 of the kids confess their love to me after 1 convo with them)
Note: ex-friend was also a narcissist for sure, so they manipulated me into being dependent on them. I would try to be on their good side by being friendly with all of their friends, although I made a point that I wouldn't add any of the minors as my friends because it made me uncomfortable seeing them and interacting with them, even though at the time I was 17.
Vox, you may not see this, but you spreading this knowledge is going to help so many people avoid problems in the future and I think we all respect you for that. Keep it up bud, this is a great video.
This is a really fantastic video, really good outline on what to look out for as most of these Ive encountered in VRChat and mostly elsewhere (or at some point found myself having those traits). Not sure if there are any videos like it but this feels like sort of essential information for ANYONE using the internet daily.. as most VRChat players tend to do.
The "controlling the perceptions of others" reminds me of a few years ago when I was at karaoke, and someone showed up who was in full "smear campaign" mode.
A: "hey B, what's up?"
B: "yeah not much, just talked to C who just saw D getting drunk at Waffle House trying to grab the waiter's junk all night. how have you been?"
i didn't even know who D was but guess who kept getting mentioned all night long
There's something to be said for someone who watches this video, sees a red flag he's shown, and wants to correct it before anyone else gets hurt. That takes a lot of guts.
Just starting to get into the fandom and saw this video. Started watching to help figure out what to watch out for. Ended up realizing the that I have done some of these narcissistic traits myself a few times over the years. Might be something to bring up to the therapist later. Thank you!
I love how adorable your avatar is, and I like the video; I thank you for this information as I tend to be on vr chat fairly often.
Just earned a subscribe! found your video through the vine of up next's and I really love the quality and writing of your content, keep up the hard work!
Age does not matter... unless your under 18, then run for the door. TBH, it would be nice for VRChat to have a flag that could be put on underage accounts and the ability to filter those to keep them from joining instances where you really should not be when your under age.
Then comes the problem of age verification. Idk how many users would be okay giving their personal information to VRChat (I don't mind uploading my passport, I really want that feature 😂)
some very good points in this video, absolutely watch out for these things plus I'm sure there are a few good ones in the comments as well.
On another note I wanted to say that my gosh, I love your character and avatar design vox.
I'm glad I watched this it kind of hurts to know that because of my mental disorder I tend to do some of these things subconsciously
But it is good to know these things so I can pay attention to them myself and try to control it
I wish there were more people like you in a world,
helping other people. tysm for this video!
Great video, Vox. Really nails down the types of people others should avoid. I also have some additional red flags of my own that you might agree with:
1) Chatterboxes.
I've come across lots of people in Discord & VRChat who filibuster (never stop talking) and thus don't allow for any break in the conversation. They might take this a step further by bloating their speech with "word salad", taking an eternity to reach a point, repeating themselves more than three times, never allowing the topic to change, or sometimes changing the topic too frequently. These people may also suddenly start talking about uncomfortable or "Thanks, Captain Obvious"-type topics without any logical context leading up to it.
From what I understand, the most likely reasons people filibuster is because they feel like they HAVE to speak, they are not interested in other topics or anything else people have to say, or they just don't know how to socialize. Regardless, it's extremely annoying & it makes them difficult to have a conversation with. At least a 6/10.
2) Pathological sloths.
Sloth is the state of inaction--the decision to not do something when you could, especially when doing something leads to a positive outcome. Slothful people are usually in a bad situation and aware of it, but they refuse to do anything to improve the situation, usually due to fear of change or inconveniences. They have no perseverance, convincing themselves that they are doomed to be in a bad state and that any attempts to improve it are futile, viewing challenge & responsibility as something to avoid instead of something to conquer. They never pull their head out of their ass long enough to realize that their failure to act is the reason their problems exist and/or worsen. They may also exaggerate the severity of inconveniences as something more serious because they're too pathetic & infantile to understand what real work is (i.e., like a spoiled brat thinking the daily task of moving heavy boxes at FedEx is "worker abuse"). Worst of all, sloths make excuses for everything; they never take ownership of their actions, will conjure every reason they can find to not do something, and use it as an excuse to not change, even if their sloth is negatively impacting others.
Unfortunately, because sloths have this mentality of avoiding challenge/responsibility, when you call them out on their sloth, they won't budge and will instead attack you for having higher standards than them. Sloth usually cannot be cured without dragging their victims kicking & screaming, and even then sometimes that doesn't work because sloths are ultimately the only people that can change themselves--not you. At that point, entering the brink of natural consequences is the only potential eye-opener for them.
Sloths are the worst kind of friend (and the worst kind of employee if you're a business owner) because they have no willingness to self-improve. They will not try anything, especially if it is different, and regardless if their inaction slowly kills them. They just give up. This is a 10/10 red flag for me.
3) Emotional time bombs.
Ever had that one thin-skinned friend that overreacts to everything, has a short temper, suddenly becomes dramatic, or otherwise has no control over his/her emotions? That's this kind of person. If someone is not able to control their emotions, they cannot think logically nor control their impulses. These types of people are extremely unpredictable, borderline dangerous, may come off as "toxic", and really not comfortable to be around.
Lack of emotional control is usually caused by immaturity or poor discipline, both of which carry with themselves other negative traits. Women are also more susceptible to this due to their natural body chemistry, neural structure, and the effects of menstruation. Regardless, these hyperemotional behaviors CAN be trained out, but the severity of the consequences makes this red flag a 9/10.
4) Sheldon Coopers.
This type is named after Sheldon Cooper from the TV show "The Big Bang Theory". Much like the character, this person is very dense, humorless, and void of empathy. These people cannot easily understand anything said to them and may often get a completely wrong message, especially if the message contains sarcasm or figurative language. These people may also have difficulty with critical thinking and thus recognizing irony & hypocrisy. They may be "book-smart", but overall common sense skills are lacking, making them very hard to instruct.
Autistics disproportionately start out as this type of person (I would know having an ASD I've since overcome), but anyone with a poor sense of humor, poor sense of etiquette, and slow learning ability can be a "Sheldon Cooper". This is not an easy pattern of behavior to get rid of, so it's an 7/10.
😂😂😂
@@user-zo1tk5we3jMy guy why are you laughing? This is some serious shit.
Well me being a pathological sloth, knowing what I am helps me motivate others to not be the way I am! 😅
I knew someone who would check out nearly all of these boxes, tried to warn people what he was like but he got to them first and made them block me. Which hurt I’ll be honest as some were really good friends of mine (which turned out they had their hands tied but did believe me, they just couldnt do much about it). This is a really good video for new people thats joining the furry or vrchat community
I do meet ups every Friday , sadly when iv had friends + I have seen some people who are fall into some of the red flags , most time myself and main group we won't engage with them or just move on another world and change I back to friends only. Great video Vox, I'm looking forward to what you make next :-)
Had to deal with these many times, I usually ignore it until it becomes frequent since I know nobodies perfect. But, I don’t always feel as if I’m just even if I gave them multiple chances.
This helps solidify it.
Thank you!
Another few you may want to add is frequent trauma dumping, and talking about drama or other people negatively FREQUENTLY and without addressing why. And people who ask about mutual friends just so they can talk shit about them.
If they did something really fucked up, yeah, it’s justified. But, if it’s just drama, a little bit of trauma dumping is fine from time to time, but don’t gossip 24/7. And don’t even get me started with people who can’t tell the difference between drama and trauma.
This is a very good compilation of things to look out for in social settings. Only thing i had a bit of an issue with is how it's very focused (not solely but you get the point i guess) on narcissism when that isn't the only thing making people toxic or having such behaviour. Often people are just shitty and bad people without being narcissists and i always think thats important to keep in mind instead of putting diagnoses onto people. Often people are just toxic without a diagnosis to explain their behaviour. Regardless of that i really enjoyed the video, i loved the many different characters featured lol. Hope you all have a nice time in the future
Wtf a bit unrelated but I've met the artist of your pfp on tower unite like 4-5 years ago. Was kinda shitty to them cuz I was in furdenial (lol) and I still regret it ;_;
Damn the last part was heart filling thank you for doing this really gonna check if any of this apllies to anyone i know or myself
18:00
MC: "I'm from crazytown"
Dude: _"Crazy? I was crazy once. They put me in a room. A rubber room. A rubber room with rats. They put me in a rubber room with rubber rats. Rubber rats? I hate rubber rats. They make me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy once. They put me in a room…"_
Hey vox, great video you did well to release it! I agree with you on almost all the red flags, and I thank you for citing some that I didn't know !
i hope see you soon buddy.
I haven’t touched this game in a hot minute, I still remember playing back then when furriers were just starting to make a couple of avatars and there were only like nine furry spaces. Most furriers back then were Hyenas because that was the most popular model at the time. Had lot of great memories on there back then, felt pretty good. Maybe one day I will return
It's always good to educate about social situations, very much appreciate this from you
I think it's important for people to be self aware when making videos like this, and you've succeeded in that. Doing good work.
I think another red flag is people who blindly defend (actually) horrible on the basis of "thats my friend so ill stand by them" or "i think theyre cool/popufur" no matter how many people it hurts
Although I have done minimal research online about narcissism and the tendencies that come along with it, I know that I have some of these traits you've described. It's hard to break out of these tendencies when you've been doing them for so long, but I am still trying to leave that part of me behind. I don't think it's your responsibility to help me further than you already have, but if you have any advice to give about getting rid of narcissistic behavior, I'd be very grateful. Thank you VoxDraco
I recommend that you look into the concept of the shadow by carl jung. Its not about rejecting or burying these traits that you find undesirable, but incorporating them into who you are in a positive manner (not the same thing as embrassing your narvissistic tendencies)
Just a stellar video through and through. The acted out examples were especially good at getting the point across.
I had a friend from a different platform who always labeled herself as the victim. It became very evident as it began to happen very frequently with different people 😅
1. Your avy is SUPER. Cute and has some of the best furbrushing I’ve seen:
2. You make a lot of good points in your closing thoughts.
3. I love How You accomaned thé red flags not only with short explanations, but with a visual examples as well
There is an absolute truth in my own existence on VRC that I have learned being a comfort creature. You can't change or heal a person who isn't willing to change or heal themselves. The sooner you you learn that you are among narcissism or a manipulator the less painful it will be to separate yourself from that person. That's the reality of having friends, people will always change and you never really get a good idea of someone until you see them through different eyes. Almost every week at least half of these red flags are encountered. In a humorous way I refer to this as main character syndrome and even if that is a bit rude, it is not a title earned easily. Almost all people I personally block fall somewhere in these categories prominently. It's not a very big block list considering the two years I have been around, but it's definitely been useful in filtering people who cannot be helped without a professional.
100% compassion does indeed burn you out. I wish we lived in an ideal world... maybe then I would find the will to care again.
I really do think we need more videos like this. VRChat videos tend be very skewed into a more positive light and omit the darker sides of the platform from new users.
I think it'd be worth making a video about the positives and negatives of VRChat for new users to watch before diving into it for the first time. Things like expectations vs reality, how to conduct yourself, how to deal with anxiety the game might bring... all things that should be talked about more when discussing VRChat.
I especially loved the closing thoughts. Thank you for making this video. I really like your wisdom about that, it is better to arm people with knowledge ad let them see for themselves.
Excellent insight on what to watch out for. It's been difficult for me finding friends because I'm so careful nowadays, and there's just so many bad apples online in general. This definitely will help me identify who I should and shouldn't hang around. Cheers!
I appreciate this! Many people take advice like this for granted, even if info seems like common sense, not everyone has the same experiences to know!
I agree with what you mean by people talking only about themselves but advice to anyone reading this, please try to find a middleground. Don't be afraid to talk about yourself, just make sure you also take an interest in others.
period!!! always share just as much as you listen
Thank you for making this video. The ending is so true and gives so much to reflect on. Thank you again.
"Hangs out with kids" usually is verry sus if you ask me. I wouldn't automatically assume pedo but i would have them on a watch list just in case they're one of those people.
For the Friends leaving one i've unfortunately been in that position Friend groups just disappeared or we stopped talking for years and i couldn't tell you why nothing bad happened BUT also i don't go around talking about it all the time Recently i believe i have found some friends that will stick around And for anyone who is in that position it just takes time you'll find good friends
I didn't hear any flags that I find weird or contradicting so 10/10 on those, and I appreciate that you add a "your mileage may vary" kind of disclaimer to it. The one thing I would do differently next time is involving mental diagnosis.
You talk about a video you made on compassion - I'm probably going to check that one out after this one - and here you say that there is a certain irony in making this video after that one. I would disagree. Setting boundaries, and figuring out ways to tell which people might be more harmful then helpful is compassionate. Its just being compassionate towards yourself (and us as viewers) rather than the person showing the behavior. Compassion isn't unconditional acceptance of whatever behavior is being thrown your way - regardless of the impact it has on you.
You can set boundaries and share signs that might point towards problematic behavior, and be compassionate to those who recognize themselves in your red flags. This isn't done by removing their accountability for their behavior, but by treating them as human beings, and avoid making assumptions and judgement.
Calling someone a narcissist is a judgement, and - unless you are a qualified psychotherapist - a judgement I don't expect you are qualified to make. I understand the inclination (I've done it myself) but think about it - we typically use diagnosis as a way to justify our wish to not be involved with someone. But in reality, any reason you can think of is reason enough if you _feel like its reason enough_ . There is no objective bar you need to pass - you get to decide your own boundaries.
So assigning certain flags to narcissism doesn't really add much for your video, while it does (potentially) stigmatize people who might have shown the behavior you mention here. As you said yourself: context and frequency matters. So why run the risk of making someone feel like they might be a narcissist because they displayed one of your red flag? And aren't narcissist people too? How compassionate is it to reduce them to their diagnosis?
The concern I have with this is that I've seen diagnosis of all sorts be weaponized against people. Once labeled as , they are essentially shunned and other-ed to the extend where recovery / re-integration into social settings become extremely difficult, because their illness is all that people need to know about them to avoid them. And if communities start to diagnose others for them... Things get messy really fast.
Again: content wise I think you are spot on. I just think it would be better to say something like "these flags can be a sign that someone will take considerable emotional effort and require strict maintenance of your personal boundaries in order to keep the relation healthy. Whether the relation is worth that energy is yours to decide". This is basically what you are already saying, minus the reference to a mental illness.
Long reply, I know. Don't let it discourage you though - it's clear to me that you have the right intentions and are seeking to be a constructive voice on this platform, and don't let my criticism imply you are failing at achieving your goals. I think a lot of people will feel validated and seen regardless. Best of luck!
where was this 3 years ago, really though its good that someone has done this for both furrys and VR chat. i had to learn through experience unfortunately but hopefully this prevents people from falling in the same traps i did
Hey I might not be a furry, but I am so proud of you for making this video, and teaching and passing on knowledge for Furries and for VRchat users to be cautious and careful about things they might not realize. And at the closing thoughts. I really feel you on the Ideal world and how we really don't live in that. That is true I accepted it, but we can always improve our society even if it's just a tiny fraction, there are people that are willing to stand up and help others. I'm just grateful and happy that people like You in this world are doing stuff that will help the community out even if it might get some mixed opinions. Don't be afraid to do what is needed for the Community there will be at least one person who will not agree. But You are simply trying to make them to be aware and cautious! As a Small creator who is trying to Build a healthy community and just do videos on experiences and stuff I am seeing hope that there are more people like You out there which there is :) It would be nice if all communities just joined forces and help each other out instead of just hating and not accepting others choices of what community they are in. We all should be united. But we aren't in an Ideal world. But we sure could improve it, even if it's small. We did great in the end :) Stay safe out there VoxDraco You matter :)
This is a very good video.
Folks should take everything with a grain of salt or don't always believe what you are told. The "Controlling the Perceptions of Others" segment is so damn accurate. I've had my fair share of people telling me who to avoid, only to find out from others that the person that I was told to avoid, was actually very nice and chill. Some folks will just go above and beyond to shame someone that it practically becomes their personality. To be very spiteful and manipulative.
on the one where they switch identity often (not tryna seem just annoying or rude), i reach out to the previous people, but just the ones who were nice, because i have to try to escape some people who have been harassing me for almost two years now, so every 8 months or so i gotta switch accounts, and they keep finding me, so it sucks tbh
@@merpmerp and i thought what im dealing with was bad, just wondering, did they try to find your home address over that? because them people harassing me did, and they found every hotel i go to as well, so they are out to kill me over a little roblox oopsie
@@merpmerp yeah osu has a bad community
Very thoughtful and needed, thank you
Thanks for sharing all of this. I haven't seen it in the wild, but I had no idea about the zeta icon.
Good video! I hope it helps someone avoid the potential headache-to-nightmare that is letting a narcissist into your life, willingly or not. Most of these traits certainly carry-over to the real world, too. Less experienced narcissists might be more blatant, like some of the examples. Those who have honed their narcissism - moving from circle to circle of 'friends' (or rather, potential victims they surround themselves with to use and abuse, and turn each other against, behind their backs) over the years and dumping them once the narcissist has been found-out - can be much more difficult to detect. These veteran narcissists are better able to conceal their traits and toe the line, alternating from abusive or toxic tendencies to love-bombing and (seeming) olive branch extending when they've broken trust, to entice your forgiveness and understanding - just to continue, later, for however long that they think they can get away with.
Unfortunately, they are usually, very charismatic, as well, channeling an air of confidence - into which, we as humans are all too easily drawn (like a moth to flame, hypnotized). They can seem to have an aura or presence about them, and manage to fit in (outwardly) comfortably in any scenario or group of people. Narcissists can be particularly charming when they've set their sights on you, having decided that there's something from you that they want or that you can be useful to them or their goals. They also do not hesitate to overpower or take advantage of those who are less confident in themselves, struggle with depression, and so on - it is a weakness that they can and will exploit. Suffice to say, beware those who seem unusually or extremely charming to you. (It'll be more clear in hindsight, as you'll otherwise be pretty disarmed, in the moment.) Your better nature to trust in the good and best of people will also be taken advantage of, naturally.
Empathetic or "empathic" folks, especially, should take heed. Narcissists love nothing but themselves (despite sometimes outwardly being overly critical of themselves - often, a ruse to draw compliments or more sympathy), and they love nothing more than entrapping an empath, to feed their narcissism. I was one such "empath" hooked by a mentally and emotionally abusive narcissist, and the ordeal nearly killed me. In hindsight, there were so many, obvious red flags; but, I didn't know better, as I was naive. Unfortunately, most people will not truly understand the danger until they've been burned by a narcissist, themselves. Sadly, narcissists are usually good at picking-out the vulnerable people they can victimize from those who are wise to their nature (which is a typical sociopath/psychopath quality, I might add).
Narcissism is not just as its namesake - self-centered, self-absorbed, and staring at one's reflection. There are several kinds, with varying degrees of potential for malice. For some, it's just about looking pretty and fishing for compliments and attention. In the case of my narcissist, it was a never-ending hurricane of gaslighting, love-bombing, victim-blaming, guilt-tripping, entrapping, manipulating, isolating, compulsive lying, boundary-crossing, sleep-depriving, resource-demanding...and more. My narcissist was also very much the type to obsess over public image and seeming like "such a good person," as mentioned in the video. A narcissist's morals are typically gray and mostly self-serving - they can be champions of good causes, capable of great deeds, if it particularly serves them in some way. They will then try to defend themselves with examples of good things they've done to excuse the (usually disproportionate amount of) bad.
Sooo..generally, it's a pretty good idea to avoid narcissists - and, certainly, don't "fall in love" with one! If you find yourself in a similar position as my past self...here's my advice:
- A narcissist will not ever get better, no matter what they tell you or how much therapy they (say that they) get. They'll say that they are "working on themselves" or assure you that they understand how hard living with them can be; or, they'll reference past trauma of theirs - whatever - anything necessary, to dissuade you. But, they will NEVER improve (as they'll just know how to continue toeing that line, better); they will NEVER do better, by you (and will continue to punish you for any perceived misgivings or attempts at standing your ground); and, they will NEVER meet you in the middle (as you are always in the wrong, and any compromise is always to be in their favor, typically).
- Separating oneself from the tendrils of a narcissist will be a messy endeavor, but it's the ONLY option. There are no alternatives - you need to get out of that situation, by whatever means necessary, as soon as possible. You may lose a lot along the way, depending on how tight of a grip over your life, finances, etc. that they've had. They do this to increase the cost of "betrayal" so that it further seems like staying and enduring is the only option.
- If it's really, really bad and your life is in danger, don't hesitate - just go; else, quietly bide your time and prepare as necessary. Rebuild your support system, if needed; try to remove their potential for inflicting further harm or cost on you; get paperwork and finances in order; discretely move-out things you need; set-up someplace with a trusted friend, family member, support group, or otherwise to seek shelter; and, anything else necessary to completely cut them off from your life, entirely, when the time is right - sooner, preferably, rather than later.
- You MUST cut them off, entirely. Don't try to keep a line open to them - they will only use it to harass and abuse you, further, or try to lure you back. (Of course, if kids are involved, that's a little more difficult to achieve.. Seek out appropriate resources and advice for this kind of thing.) Don't clue them in that you're even thinking of leaving. They will only try to find every way to make it harder for you. Don't confide in mutual friends or anyone who might try to talk with the narcissist to get their side, to tell them off, or whatever.
- Also, don't rely on - or even put trust into - any mutual friends (especially those that have known the narcissist for longer) to stick by your side, no matter how close y'all might seem. They may be sympathetic to your story, but...people are complicated. Or, some friends of the narcissist may simply be friendly toward you to spy for the narcissist. (I experienced this personally, unfortunately. Do be careful with who you trust.)
- This also means that you probably shouldn't trust mutual friends or random acquaintances who reach out afterward to "hear your side of what happened." At most, give them some basic details, maybe; but, you're not obligated, it's none of their business, and the chance that anything you say could get back to them is not 0%, so it should be left at that.
- Whether you're leaving now or after some preparation, in the meantime, learn to practice the "gray rock method" around the narcissist. You may already do it to some degree, unknowingly. In short, it just basically means not reacting to them or letting them get a rise out of you; but, not being so emotionally vacant as to be obvious. I'm not really doing it justice, so just go read about it, somewhere.
I can recommend a very good channel for some lengthy talks about various narcissistic traits and methods - "ThereminTrees," here on CZcams. (Some relevant videos: "worshiping narcissists," "Double Binds," "False Equivalents," "letting go of fixing people," "copying enemies," and more.) It is where I learned to put into words many of the things I'd learned or observed in my time living with my abusive, narcissistic ex (who, yes, was also a furry and popular amongst our local group..). I wish I'd run across his channel, sooner. Many of the above points of advice feature an overlap with general "getting out of an abusive domestic situation" advice. A lesser amount of it may be applicable to friendships or friend groups involving narcissists. In these cases, apply whatever is necessary to protect yourself - avoid, if possible, and mitigate, otherwise. You might be able to warn trusted friends about them and may be able to call out some behaviors, publicly; but, I wouldn't recommend trying to do so - especially, if you're introverted or lacking charisma/confidence/conviction. Narcissists have all three of these, undeservedly, and they're usually very good at playing the victim or twisting words to make any well-meaning attempts of yours backfire, somehow. "The only winning move is not to play," in this case.
Sorry for the wall of text! Hopefully, it's helpful to someone. :) I definitely wrote a lot more than I originally set-out to comment, hah. I just want to protect others from going through what I went through, I guess - certainly, cause for passionate prose. This is definitely, especially applicable to those in their early-20s, teens, and younger of VRChat (along with those of other internet platforms), where narcissistic or otherwise toxic predators have free and open access to the vulnerable and the naive. I hope that (the message of) your video reaches the ones who certainly need it. Keep up the good work!