Quite the contrary with Fraser. ... with only a few months of experience in CrossFit, he finished fifth in the CrossFit North East Regionals in 2013. In 2014, he won Regionals and placed second overall behind Froning with 7 top 10 finishes in his rookie year. He literally took the CF world by storm, which speaks for his freak genetic advantage.
@@nickvinckier5538 nah it just means he was already doping and starting doping even harder. Unlike Fronning who is obviously all natty and his training alone is what separated him as he changed the game with games training.
Ben Smith has mentioned on his podcast (RIP the coaches office) that after 2016, the level at the games jumped drastically and he struggled to hold on. I mean, the programming hardly left him behind?
There is already enough data to note performance anomalies from year to year. What you are looking for is a non-linear performance increase or decrease (if they stop using), like we saw with Rick Garard. Athletes can and do improve over time, but a sudden spike in performance can only be explained by an exogenous (external) factor.
Its likely that most of the top 100 are all using to some extent. We dont see many of these trends in performance because they were always using. Even Rick, he probably just added a little extra something to get ahead (or catchup, depends on what side of the fence you stand), and hence it was noticed. There are a lot of crossiftters every season caught out if you look into it.
Lifetime drug free and natty simp myself. But ffs I've seen people fail drug tests in powerlifting meets at a local level. Of course there's going to be "some" high level crossfit athletes with real money and sponsors on the line trying to get whatever edge they can. Man nailed it when he said genetics and "sometimes" drugs.
I completely think that Fraser was on PEDs. This is clearly 10000% speculation and I have no evidence obviously. I just feel like he would have legitimately have done ANYTHING to win and it's not like he cares about the sport at all. This was all about him and his ability to milk it for everything it is worth which no judgement, he's retired at 35 and owns his own company clearly he's doing something right.
It's strange how he would just stop competing in Crossfit altogether and retire at his prime. I can only think of a couple reasons: he either doesn't like crossfit anymore which is highly unlikely, or he was on the juice and didn't want to get caught or couldn't keep up with the regime. Greats don't suddenly quit.
In my mind there are 3 reasons someone might get better with age. 1. They never did that activity before (or very seriously) and get massive newbie gains. 2. Performance Enhancers 3. Major change in diet. There are literally people that put chronic diseases into remission with diet change - without doubt they would be better athletes after that. So I guarantee there would be a range of people that would have a range of responses to diet change.
@@followingnazarene couldn't possibly be because he wasn't eating 9000+ cals a day after he retired. No, clearly must be sauce. that's some sound logic
Dave was at my L1 more than a decade ago. Solid dude. But yes it’s 100% genetics, have a buddy who did CrossFit for less than 6 months and made the invictus team in ‘13. Just had to learn the movements and crushed everyone
That’s also partly because as a sport cross fit really isn’t that difficult. You don’t have to be a genetic stud to be great at this. Some of the hardest things in cross-fit are downright beginner aspects of other sports. For example ring muscle ups. For a gymnast a muscle up doesn’t even qualify for a score in their routine. I could go on and one but i’ll say one last thing. You give a top 50 pro boxer, hockey player, rugby player, or gymnast 6 months to train. I’d bet good money they’d be a games athlete. Give any games athletes six months to be top 50 at boxing, Rugby, Hockey, gymnastics. They likely won’t even be too 1000 globally. A crossfit games athlete basically has gained the minimum of what a pro athletes needs in strength and cardio, without having to learn how to be athletic with it.
Love this. I used to hate listening to everyone run around saying its all about who wants it more or who was willing to go deeper in the "pain cave." lol
Here we are talking about performance enhancing drugs at the very high level of functional fitness. My question is how many people are juicing at the national events like TURF, Athx, Hyrox, SiD etc where there is a few £1000 on the line and a load of Instagram followings but not testing? If its going on at the high level you can bet your house its also happening at the lower levels
It’s also because people want short cuts. Plenty of varying degrees of PEDs go on all the way down to your local nobodies… and that includes just gym bros lifting weights or no-names that will always be no-names in local sports.
agreed. Arguably even more at the local comp level. Pat Vellner, Roman, Jeff Adler etc are going to have to be very careful what they take (if they take) but any high level UK Comp athletes can just blast test/Sarms/Peptides without any fear of getting pinged. I competed at SiD in December and there some very "juicy" masters athletes walking about
Started crossfit at 19 years old. Didn't believe in the hype or that you could gain real muscle. I was 6'9ft 235 roughly 13% body fat. Now I'm 6'9ft 290 17% body fat. Personally I love it. But I understand the hate. Now Personally still hate the pullups. Don't do the pullups
Kinda pissed that I waited until my 60s to start TRT. Lots of mental and physical benefits, but enhanced recovery from training makes it worth it all by itself. Somebody described PEDs as analogous to an “Ace” card that you get to play once. It will move your athletic ceiling up one level. For example a good high school football player might use PEDs to be a college athlete, but he’s not making the NFL. In CrossFit, a middle of the pack Open guy might squeak into quarterfinals, but he’ll never make the Games, no matter how hard he trains. Certainly there are people “cheating” at every level, because that’s what people do. They’ll spend $1000s to win $100s at local competitions. I’m not interested in being that guy who moves up a few inconsequential spots on the leaderboard over his natty self. I’ll just declare myself banned and spend that entry fee money on something more fun than dying for points.
It's almost all about genetics in sports then the training in how much of your potential you are able to get to. I believe if you don't have the genetics you can't just train hard and become number one.
I've ALWAYS preached this. lol it's almost like people don't understand how much of a factor genetics are. It's nearly everything. I can spend the next 5 years squatting heavy and never squat 600lbs, meanwhile there's a 22 year old somewhere on the other side of the planet that just picked up weightlifting last year and squats it with barely any training at all.
@@J_Wolfe86if everyone is using gear, then why would he be winning by so much? It doesn’t make sense to say everyone is on peds but someone is blowing them all away.
Spot on analysis, if you take your progress and look at it on a year to year basis it would be diminishing returns as a natural. Needless to say, taking into consideration the age you started the sport plays a big part in how successful you are. You have kids starting CrossFit at 13 who will carry that fitness through puberty into their young adult hood. You have people who are touching a barbell for the first time in their life at 24 and making the games at 26 (possibly with PEDs). But regardless to say, genetics and training experience would determine where you'll land. Not impossible to make it to the games naturally, but highly unlikely for 99.9999% of people. Listen to hiller.
Youre completely right. Just... You didnt really counter Ben here. You confirmed what he said to a degree. Genetics will dictate how athletic will you look. PEDs will bring you that much closer. + hes not referring to elite crossfiters (quarterfinals and up) hes talking about average Joe crossfiters. Its a shame ypu have a beef with him, since both of you are trying to affect the crossfit community in a positive way.
I think on the why don't people get popped for test: if you T/E ratio is under 4x the norm you are fine. If you are beyond that you get popped. If they hate you they might run a carbon isotype analysis to see if the test is synthetic. Otherwise the easiest stuff to get people on are the oral compounds with long half life metabolites. In USA Powerlifting of the 101 lifters currently suspended for doping violation, 21 had a T/E ratio greater than 4. And powerlifting benefits even more higher doses of testosterone. However, it is still suspicious that no one in crossfit failed on T/E ratio.
I don’t want to presume anything about you, so I’ll ask: what is your diet plan like? Are you consistent with your macronutrients? I have decent numbers but I didn’t begin to visibly see the physique I wanted until I became VERY strict in my eating.
@Kwildcat13 that may be the case, but that doesn't mean that recomp is impossible. I'm 36, and I've recomped my body down to below 10% body fat at least twice in the past few years with simple nutrition changes.
@Kwildcat13I thinks that’s a cop out mentality. 40 isn’t old and the only reason why things slow down is by us slowing down. It’s all mental perspective! If we started falling apart at that point the world of endurance sports would have a completely different age range of podium / successful athletes
I've been training hard for 10 years doing CrossFit. I've hit my genetic potential. Those people that train for 5 years and make it to the games, definitely majority genetic potential.
Okay while I agree with a lot of the points about genetics and sometimes drugs… I completely disagree that training doesn’t matter. That’s what makes games athletes athletes and not just fit individuals. Being able to stay calm when you make a mistake, when someone passes you early on, when the pain sets in and you dig deep for that last sprint and throw the leg with the timer out first, learning a new(ish) skill on the fly. That’s training. Look at fikowski. He changed his training and let his running go downhill. He started losing a lot of those events that kept him near the top. He started focusing on his strengths again and back in the mix atop the leaderboard. To say training doesn’t make a difference is absurd. To say training is the only needle mover is equally absurd. It’s a blend. Otherwise elite athletes and teams wouldn’t practice fundamentals.
Its drugs and genetics, and there are still levels. Genetics explains how a Saquan Barkley in college weightroom can casually powerclean 405 lbs with no belt, wraps, wearing tennis shoes. All the drugs in crossfit yet nobody can clean 405? Crossfitters have great genetics but NFL genetics are on another level.
In your running example it is all about genetics. There is no amount of drugs or training that can make you a 4 minute miler if you do not have the natural capacity. In the history of running in the USA there have been less than 400 men to ever break 4 minutes for the mile. With this in mind I would suspect the same would be true for sprints and weight lifting strength. Genetics will trump everything else.
I think they mostly all on gear, and i also believe that gear use is heavily downplayed by athletes, as they really dont want the perception of it taking away from their hardwork (it doesnt) but steroids are very powerful tools, and combined with genetics, will absolutely make you better than most everyone else.
There is a steroid study where the group that took drugs but didn't exercise put on more muscle than the control group, lifting but no drugs. I've seen regular people (and very fit dudes/dudettes) go through over 1000 training sessions (over years) and bodies don't change like theses 'adonis' types when you're going home and relying on regular food and whey protein.
I publicly talk about (on my podcast) the things I've been prescribed for achilles tendonitis (PRP, BPC157, Egrifta), and for fertility purposes (Pregnyl, FSH) (I have testicular atrophy due to heat damage, NOT related to steroid use). Do you think they will ban me from the open as well?
Are you ever going to call out the chick in your Facebook group who continuously brags about gaining 30lbs in 6 months while losing body fat and displays all the signs of being on gear?
I don't watch crossfit. I just saw the steroids talk and decided to watch this video. I thought every crossfit competitor was juiced to the gills. I had no idea they even tested. I don't think there is a natural competitor in crossfit even after watching this.
The most inheritable traits such as VO2 max and fiber typing are only 40-50% genetic. Your point does not make sense sorry. Genetics play a huge role, but training does too.
Don’t get me wrong, I love your videos and I’m glad you’re still making them, but what about that post saying “oh no, you guys can thank bridges because I’m not making any videos anymore”?
Just to state the obvious - the training is where the genetics make the difference and the competition is the expression of the training. I workout with a genetically gifted masters athlete that can sustain an incredible volume of high quality training. He isn't just "getting through" the training but rather, he's excelling at every aspect of each movement and consistently crushing the training day after day after day. I haven't seen anyone else, myself included, that has that same level of genetic capacity to train and improve.
No, that’s what people say that know what they’re talking about. People that don’t know what they’re talking about, usually name call. I think that’s a side effect of PED’s. Lol
For whatever anyone would wanna make of it, I went on TRT this year, and I would almost guarantee that I do worse in the Open than last year. I used to spend about an extra half hour before class working on whatever I needed to work on to get a little better at CrossFit, but I don’t do that anymore. I haven’t experience any perceivable improvement in strength at a rate any faster than I did prior to starting TRT. Additionally, the exogenous testosterone has thickened my blood to a point that it isn’t as efficiently delivering oxygen to the muscle, and I have experienced a drastic drop off in cardiovascular performance. So, there’s that. I started using PEDs and a year later my fitness is absolutely worse than before.
Good insight. A few points from a clinical perspective (this isn't medical advice): Yes, open and crossfit performance is bottlenecked at technique and skill. However, once you get past those points, strength and androgen-driven EPO production improves performance by at 10% (15% if lucky). There is something missing with your TRT/HRT regimen, or your training.
@@gilletthealth I’m suuuuuper average. I put 10lbs on my back squat year after for the last 5 years including this year, and my 5k time improved by about 1 minute every year until the most recent one I did in which I fell of by about 4 minutes from my time last year. All the while, the gym I go to has consistently used the same programming. I’m considering making a change to my frequency from twice a week to every other day, to see if that brings down my hemoglobin and RBC, though.
@@gilletthealthyear over year, I put 10lbs on my back squat, and take 1min off my 5k. This year, again I put 10lbs on my back squat, but I lost 4min on my 5k. Mostly been doing the same programming over the last few years. Considering changing from twice a week to EOD to see if it helps bring my RBC and hemoglobin back down to the within normal reference range.
I mean there’s actual TRT, which just gets you into the normal range and then there is what Hiller is doing, which is like being on a mini cycle at all times. But if you experience no strength increase and have thick blood sounds like you need a different doctor
It is interesting that people hyperfocus on genetic athletic potential but really you have the same genetic story broadly across all human traits. Personality, IQ, hand/eye coordination, temperament, impulse control, metabolism, appetite control, the openness of your personality, and physical attractiveness to a degree are all heavily dictated by an individual's specific genetics. I think that less defined traits like consistency of action over time, focus, and the ability to "grind" are also aspects of genetic traits. We're all born with a particular "hand" and our goal in life should be to maximize it as best we can. During that journey it is important to have enough self-awareness to develop realistic stretch goals for ourselves.
Nuture vs Nature, I see you are leaning towards nature. I will respectively disagree. In my experience, the will to win and mindset does not come from nature. Like your outro says, “just do it, yes you can”. All the most successful people have this mindset.
I find it hilarious people who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground concerning PEDs are the most vocal abt who is on them. Those of us who have years of experience say little, bc we know for the ppl who optimized themselves pre-PED, being on an am of PED’s that doesn’t get caught when tested will only add a small amt of incremental improvement. That CAN be the difference between finishing in the money vs. out, but its not what got them there.
Enjoy the content and not hating. Just find it funny…. Do you just always hangout around the house shirtless and then just start making a video randomly or are you like “okay time to make a video!” *Grabs camera and rips off shirt*
Dude, never cheat, just work harder. And yes, there are some freaks. At 70 years old, I still bench press 300 pounds on a machine. Both rotars and partially torn now; free weights take too much control. Weight machine is just pure power, very easy. Collegiate heavyweight wrestler 50 years ago. Used to wrestle at 235 lbs. 55 inch chest, 37.5 inch waist, and 32 inch circumference on the thighs, 21 inch neck. Naturally, just 18.5 inches). We did a ton of neck work. On the water dunk test, I tested just under 5.0% body fat. In the off-season, we did a ten mile morning run. sometimes I could do it under an hour. For you non-accountants, that is 10 sub-six minute miles in a row, by a man who benches 450 pounds. When I was young, if I looked at weights, I gained muscle. The strength coach used to yell at me when the lats would lift my arms off my body. Some of us are just freaks, I lift a total of 5 minutes a day and bench 300 lbs. Not the 450 lbs that I benched free weights in college wrestling, but it is 50 years later. Still have a resting heart rate of 61, and I am 40 pounds overweight. - The retired redneck accountant
Sucks for the natty people who are actually natty and then get vilified for rheroric like this.... Mal Obrien got ripped apart in the comments when participating in the open. I get your point but it also does damage to those truly working their asses off and yet everyone is sus of them. Wonder why MOB took a step back *sarcasm
I think your very wrong about anyone being natural in the games. Medero might not look like a user but steroids are not only for muscular gains but for recovery and muscular endurance. And saying 5% increase only is even funnier. Most of those top athletes would be nobody’s without the gear.
The hypothetical you described on Justin literally described Tia's wins.
And Matt's all of the sudden as well...
👀
Quite the contrary with Fraser.
... with only a few months of experience in CrossFit, he finished fifth in the CrossFit North East Regionals in 2013.
In 2014, he won Regionals and placed second overall behind Froning with 7 top 10 finishes in his rookie year.
He literally took the CF world by storm, which speaks for his freak genetic advantage.
@@nickvinckier5538 nah it just means he was already doping and starting doping even harder.
Unlike Fronning who is obviously all natty and his training alone is what separated him as he changed the game with games training.
This is sarcasm for the dumb dumbs who think I’m serious
Ben Smith has mentioned on his podcast (RIP the coaches office) that after 2016, the level at the games jumped drastically and he struggled to hold on. I mean, the programming hardly left him behind?
God bless that podcast while it lasted. He had to hold back so many times from calling out people for obvious drug use.
I noticed that too
It’s the same thing that happened when Armstrong was doping in the Tour de France. The level jumped drastically over night almost
There is already enough data to note performance anomalies from year to year. What you are looking for is a non-linear performance increase or decrease (if they stop using), like we saw with Rick Garard. Athletes can and do improve over time, but a sudden spike in performance can only be explained by an exogenous (external) factor.
Its likely that most of the top 100 are all using to some extent. We dont see many of these trends in performance because they were always using. Even Rick, he probably just added a little extra something to get ahead (or catchup, depends on what side of the fence you stand), and hence it was noticed. There are a lot of crossiftters every season caught out if you look into it.
Lifetime drug free and natty simp myself. But ffs I've seen people fail drug tests in powerlifting meets at a local level. Of course there's going to be "some" high level crossfit athletes with real money and sponsors on the line trying to get whatever edge they can. Man nailed it when he said genetics and "sometimes" drugs.
The most fraudulent part of this video is you saying Sevan is 5’5” when we all know he is AT MOST 5’3”
Disinformation
I completely think that Fraser was on PEDs. This is clearly 10000% speculation and I have no evidence obviously. I just feel like he would have legitimately have done ANYTHING to win and it's not like he cares about the sport at all. This was all about him and his ability to milk it for everything it is worth which no judgement, he's retired at 35 and owns his own company clearly he's doing something right.
Careful what you say about him, he’ll go on the Rogan podcast and talk shit about you like he did Dave and the L1
It's strange how he would just stop competing in Crossfit altogether and retire at his prime. I can only think of a couple reasons: he either doesn't like crossfit anymore which is highly unlikely, or he was on the juice and didn't want to get caught or couldn't keep up with the regime. Greats don't suddenly quit.
@@clarkkent1521 I mean, being a competitive athlete is a tough lifestyle.
@@jack.o.1098 Females have had babies and then returned to competition crossfit shortly after.
Lump Froning in there as well. He was a massive cheater. But they’d never torpedo their cash cow with drug tests.
In my mind there are 3 reasons someone might get better with age.
1. They never did that activity before (or very seriously) and get massive newbie gains.
2. Performance Enhancers
3. Major change in diet. There are literally people that put chronic diseases into remission with diet change - without doubt they would be better athletes after that. So I guarantee there would be a range of people that would have a range of responses to diet change.
"Major change in diet."
You mean the chicken, rice, and Tren diet?
@@comradedyatlov712 no, because that would fall under point #2. Plus chicken and rice is a shit diet.
Fraser in 3 years went from weighing 200+lbs and cleaning 385, to weighing around 175 and having trouble front squatting 275.
Well he did have acl surgery
@@LuukvanWezelwhich we all know, leads to a 30 pound weight loss.
@@followingnazarene couldn't possibly be because he wasn't eating 9000+ cals a day after he retired. No, clearly must be sauce. that's some sound logic
@@followingnazareneterrible take. Get a nap and try again
Completely torn ACL, Grade 2 MCL, Grade 1 LCL and a torn in meniscus.... just a little sprain
I think a better way to represent your statement is that if the training is equal or close to accross the board genetics is king.
Dave was at my L1 more than a decade ago. Solid dude. But yes it’s 100% genetics, have a buddy who did CrossFit for less than 6 months and made the invictus team in ‘13. Just had to learn the movements and crushed everyone
That’s also partly because as a sport cross fit really isn’t that difficult. You don’t have to be a genetic stud to be great at this.
Some of the hardest things in cross-fit are downright beginner aspects of other sports. For example ring muscle ups. For a gymnast a muscle up doesn’t even qualify for a score in their routine. I could go on and one but i’ll say one last thing.
You give a top 50 pro boxer, hockey player, rugby player, or gymnast 6 months to train. I’d bet good money they’d be a games athlete.
Give any games athletes six months to be top 50 at boxing, Rugby, Hockey, gymnastics. They likely won’t even be too 1000 globally.
A crossfit games athlete basically has gained the minimum of what a pro athletes needs in strength and cardio, without having to learn how to be athletic with it.
@@ryancorsaut5177 what? You’re not bright
@@mnberg Well thought out. Lol.
@@mnberg Can you refute anything I said? Or you content with looking like a mouth breather?
@@ryancorsaut5177 you don’t have the intelligence to comprehend, but glad I triggered you and am living rent free in your head
Love this. I used to hate listening to everyone run around saying its all about who wants it more or who was willing to go deeper in the "pain cave." lol
You'll like this one @ Mark Lewis - Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) - My Journey, Social Media and Jacked Actors
Mark Lewis is a twat that thinks Hyrox is everything.
Dude just put a shirt on so people can take you more seriously.
WAIT - ARE YOU SAYING THAT DUCKS 🦆 QUACK????!!!! DEAR LORD WHAT A SHOCKER!! 😂😂
Here we are talking about performance enhancing drugs at the very high level of functional fitness. My question is how many people are juicing at the national events like TURF, Athx, Hyrox, SiD etc where there is a few £1000 on the line and a load of Instagram followings but not testing? If its going on at the high level you can bet your house its also happening at the lower levels
I know of people who take PEDs at the local CF comp level. It isn’t always about the money but the notoriety for some.
It’s also because people want short cuts.
Plenty of varying degrees of PEDs go on all the way down to your local nobodies… and that includes just gym bros lifting weights or no-names that will always be no-names in local sports.
agreed. Arguably even more at the local comp level. Pat Vellner, Roman, Jeff Adler etc are going to have to be very careful what they take (if they take) but any high level UK Comp athletes can just blast test/Sarms/Peptides without any fear of getting pinged. I competed at SiD in December and there some very "juicy" masters athletes walking about
@@robertquantrell masters even more so. The human body can’t withstand that type of volume without some pharma help. It’s just plain biology. 😂
Started crossfit at 19 years old. Didn't believe in the hype or that you could gain real muscle. I was 6'9ft 235 roughly 13% body fat. Now I'm 6'9ft 290 17% body fat. Personally I love it. But I understand the hate. Now Personally still hate the pullups. Don't do the pullups
Kinda pissed that I waited until my 60s to start TRT. Lots of mental and physical benefits, but enhanced recovery from training makes it worth it all by itself. Somebody described PEDs as analogous to an “Ace” card that you get to play once. It will move your athletic ceiling up one level. For example a good high school football player might use PEDs to be a college athlete, but he’s not making the NFL. In CrossFit, a middle of the pack Open guy might squeak into quarterfinals, but he’ll never make the Games, no matter how hard he trains. Certainly there are people “cheating” at every level, because that’s what people do. They’ll spend $1000s to win $100s at local competitions. I’m not interested in being that guy who moves up a few inconsequential spots on the leaderboard over his natty self. I’ll just declare myself banned and spend that entry fee money on something more fun than dying for points.
It's almost all about genetics in sports then the training in how much of your potential you are able to get to. I believe if you don't have the genetics you can't just train hard and become number one.
I've ALWAYS preached this. lol it's almost like people don't understand how much of a factor genetics are. It's nearly everything. I can spend the next 5 years squatting heavy and never squat 600lbs, meanwhile there's a 22 year old somewhere on the other side of the planet that just picked up weightlifting last year and squats it with barely any training at all.
Are genetics massively important? Yes. Does that make genetics mutually exclusive with PEDs? No. You're an idiot.
Sevan taking all the punches today
I deserve it
My observation over many years is that if you have serious athletic talent, it shows up very early.
I knew when Dave opened his mouth, this was going to be your answer. He should have seen this, CrossFit is absolutely finished…
Alright relax
I still don't understand how you think Medeiros is natural (of all PEDs)...
We're still waiting on the Mat Fraser video. What are you waiting for? 😅
He doesn’t need to make a video on Fraser…. Because he fits the “started winning by 100+ points” example and that says it all…
@@J_Wolfe86 a video would still be interesting. He's gone hard after Tia but not Mat 🤷♀️
@@J_Wolfe86if everyone is using gear, then why would he be winning by so much? It doesn’t make sense to say everyone is on peds but someone is blowing them all away.
@@tg2757 I never said everyone is using. But blowing away the competition after a few years of second place finishes is very suspicious…
@@tg2757 o corpo dele absorve melhor os esteroides. genetics.
Spot on analysis, if you take your progress and look at it on a year to year basis it would be diminishing returns as a natural. Needless to say, taking into consideration the age you started the sport plays a big part in how successful you are. You have kids starting CrossFit at 13 who will carry that fitness through puberty into their young adult hood. You have people who are touching a barbell for the first time in their life at 24 and making the games at 26 (possibly with PEDs). But regardless to say, genetics and training experience would determine where you'll land. Not impossible to make it to the games naturally, but highly unlikely for 99.9999% of people. Listen to hiller.
The return of Oliver McQueen on the Crossfit Open board😂
Youre completely right.
Just... You didnt really counter Ben here. You confirmed what he said to a degree.
Genetics will dictate how athletic will you look. PEDs will bring you that much closer.
+ hes not referring to elite crossfiters (quarterfinals and up) hes talking about average Joe crossfiters.
Its a shame ypu have a beef with him, since both of you are trying to affect the crossfit community in a positive way.
I think on the why don't people get popped for test: if you T/E ratio is under 4x the norm you are fine. If you are beyond that you get popped. If they hate you they might run a carbon isotype analysis to see if the test is synthetic. Otherwise the easiest stuff to get people on are the oral compounds with long half life metabolites. In USA Powerlifting of the 101 lifters currently suspended for doping violation, 21 had a T/E ratio greater than 4. And powerlifting benefits even more higher doses of testosterone.
However, it is still suspicious that no one in crossfit failed on T/E ratio.
At 39 I feel I could do with a little 'help'. My bar numbers are still going up, but I don't look it, which is annoying after putting in the work
I don’t want to presume anything about you, so I’ll ask: what is your diet plan like? Are you consistent with your macronutrients? I have decent numbers but I didn’t begin to visibly see the physique I wanted until I became VERY strict in my eating.
@Kwildcat13 that may be the case, but that doesn't mean that recomp is impossible. I'm 36, and I've recomped my body down to below 10% body fat at least twice in the past few years with simple nutrition changes.
Sevan is going to use this as fuel and win the women’s 50-54 masters
@Kwildcat13I thinks that’s a cop out mentality. 40 isn’t old and the only reason why things slow down is by us slowing down. It’s all mental perspective! If we started falling apart at that point the world of endurance sports would have a completely different age range of podium / successful athletes
You don't look it because you're likely natural and that's what natural looks likes. That's the issue with peds, it gives people false impressions
Wait, so chandler smith is lifetime natty?
I've been training hard for 10 years doing CrossFit. I've hit my genetic potential. Those people that train for 5 years and make it to the games, definitely majority genetic potential.
Okay while I agree with a lot of the points about genetics and sometimes drugs… I completely disagree that training doesn’t matter.
That’s what makes games athletes athletes and not just fit individuals. Being able to stay calm when you make a mistake, when someone passes you early on, when the pain sets in and you dig deep for that last sprint and throw the leg with the timer out first, learning a new(ish) skill on the fly. That’s training.
Look at fikowski. He changed his training and let his running go downhill. He started losing a lot of those events that kept him near the top. He started focusing on his strengths again and back in the mix atop the leaderboard.
To say training doesn’t make a difference is absurd.
To say training is the only needle mover is equally absurd.
It’s a blend. Otherwise elite athletes and teams wouldn’t practice fundamentals.
Excellent post! 👍
Its drugs and genetics, and there are still levels. Genetics explains how a Saquan Barkley in college weightroom can casually powerclean 405 lbs with no belt, wraps, wearing tennis shoes. All the drugs in crossfit yet nobody can clean 405? Crossfitters have great genetics but NFL genetics are on another level.
In your running example it is all about genetics. There is no amount of drugs or training that can make you a 4 minute miler if you do not have the natural capacity. In the history of running in the USA there have been less than 400 men to ever break 4 minutes for the mile. With this in mind I would suspect the same would be true for sprints and weight lifting strength. Genetics will trump everything else.
You know athletics and weightlifting are heavily doped sports right?
Yeah, top Crossfit athletes are juiced up, but thanks for taking the time to explain things.
I think they mostly all on gear, and i also believe that gear use is heavily downplayed by athletes, as they really dont want the perception of it taking away from their hardwork (it doesnt) but steroids are very powerful tools, and combined with genetics, will absolutely make you better than most everyone else.
Tia literally looked like a man in the 2024 games.
There is a steroid study where the group that took drugs but didn't exercise put on more muscle than the control group, lifting but no drugs. I've seen regular people (and very fit dudes/dudettes) go through over 1000 training sessions (over years) and bodies don't change like theses 'adonis' types when you're going home and relying on regular food and whey protein.
I publicly talk about (on my podcast) the things I've been prescribed for achilles tendonitis (PRP, BPC157, Egrifta), and for fertility purposes (Pregnyl, FSH) (I have testicular atrophy due to heat damage, NOT related to steroid use). Do you think they will ban me from the open as well?
Technically they are banned
@@DoyonFit if someone gets a TUE application approved, then they can compete
No sir , these people are telling their brain damaged limitations.
Keep putting the work on , and you'll see how far you'll get over time.
Are you ever going to call out the chick in your Facebook group who continuously brags about gaining 30lbs in 6 months while losing body fat and displays all the signs of being on gear?
Isn’t Sevan’s channel stagnant?
I don't watch crossfit. I just saw the steroids talk and decided to watch this video. I thought every crossfit competitor was juiced to the gills. I had no idea they even tested. I don't think there is a natural competitor in crossfit even after watching this.
CrossFit don’t want to admit they don’t test their top athletes. They’ve even scapegoated a few to make it look like they do.
Goggins talks about people like this all the time. You gotta put a cap on everyone so you feel better.
I need to juice to the gills to make quarterfinals lol
I knew Sevy was juiced up
I'm glad I was on my phone when I got this notification
💯 spot on!!!
The most inheritable traits such as VO2 max and fiber typing are only 40-50% genetic. Your point does not make sense sorry. Genetics play a huge role, but training does too.
Well said!
Paul Perna was also suspended for exogenous testosterone
That was tedious.
Yep, Interesting point.
Don’t get me wrong, I love your videos and I’m glad you’re still making them, but what about that post saying “oh no, you guys can thank bridges because I’m not making any videos anymore”?
Perhaps everyone is on drugs and winning by a small nargin does not exonerate the winner. Food for thought.
Just to state the obvious - the training is where the genetics make the difference and the competition is the expression of the training. I workout with a genetically gifted masters athlete that can sustain an incredible volume of high quality training. He isn't just "getting through" the training but rather, he's excelling at every aspect of each movement and consistently crushing the training day after day after day. I haven't seen anyone else, myself included, that has that same level of genetic capacity to train and improve.
It’s called steroids. Lol
@@davidzamora8342I was about to say 😅
@@davidzamora8342 Ya, that's what losers say to make themselves feel better Lol
No, that’s what people say that know what they’re talking about. People that don’t know what they’re talking about, usually name call. I think that’s a side effect of PED’s. Lol
So Dave basically admitted Cam was on the sauce. smart
What I am wondering is why you hate wearing shirts
This is awesome
In your experience is Matt fraser natural ?
So are saying Brooke Wells never had a chance of winning the CFG?
At the highest level is: genetics + drugs+ training without getting injured. In this order
100%. Everyone thinks just because we say they use drugs means we think they're lazy or something. No, all 3 are required.
This is very confusing haha. If everyone is on test or gear or whatever. Then why would one person completely dominate?
By the way. I believe they are. But that doesn’t really answer why one person would dominate if they are all using the same PEDS.
Oh boy!!!!
Wasn´t that a picture of Rob Orlando not Dave Lipson competing in the games?
Yup, on the left totally Rob.. nbd though point still stands..lol
For whatever anyone would wanna make of it, I went on TRT this year, and I would almost guarantee that I do worse in the Open than last year.
I used to spend about an extra half hour before class working on whatever I needed to work on to get a little better at CrossFit, but I don’t do that anymore.
I haven’t experience any perceivable improvement in strength at a rate any faster than I did prior to starting TRT.
Additionally, the exogenous testosterone has thickened my blood to a point that it isn’t as efficiently delivering oxygen to the muscle, and I have experienced a drastic drop off in cardiovascular performance.
So, there’s that. I started using PEDs and a year later my fitness is absolutely worse than before.
Good insight. A few points from a clinical perspective (this isn't medical advice): Yes, open and crossfit performance is bottlenecked at technique and skill. However, once you get past those points, strength and androgen-driven EPO production improves performance by at 10% (15% if lucky). There is something missing with your TRT/HRT regimen, or your training.
@@gilletthealth I’m suuuuuper average. I put 10lbs on my back squat year after for the last 5 years including this year, and my 5k time improved by about 1 minute every year until the most recent one I did in which I fell of by about 4 minutes from my time last year. All the while, the gym I go to has consistently used the same programming.
I’m considering making a change to my frequency from twice a week to every other day, to see if that brings down my hemoglobin and RBC, though.
The drugs they take aren’t for strength or muscular gains. They’re taking drugs to help recover and increase muscular endurance.
@@gilletthealthyear over year, I put 10lbs on my back squat, and take 1min off my 5k.
This year, again I put 10lbs on my back squat, but I lost 4min on my 5k.
Mostly been doing the same programming over the last few years.
Considering changing from twice a week to EOD to see if it helps bring my RBC and hemoglobin back down to the within normal reference range.
I mean there’s actual TRT, which just gets you into the normal range and then there is what Hiller is doing, which is like being on a mini cycle at all times. But if you experience no strength increase and have thick blood sounds like you need a different doctor
It is interesting that people hyperfocus on genetic athletic potential but really you have the same genetic story broadly across all human traits. Personality, IQ, hand/eye coordination, temperament, impulse control, metabolism, appetite control, the openness of your personality, and physical attractiveness to a degree are all heavily dictated by an individual's specific genetics. I think that less defined traits like consistency of action over time, focus, and the ability to "grind" are also aspects of genetic traits. We're all born with a particular "hand" and our goal in life should be to maximize it as best we can. During that journey it is important to have enough self-awareness to develop realistic stretch goals for ourselves.
You should have appealed bro! Innocent until proven guilty! Make them test you lol
Genetics baby! no doubt!
It is the same with intellect. Genetics is the biggest factor.
Nuture vs Nature, I see you are leaning towards nature. I will respectively disagree. In my experience, the will to win and mindset does not come from nature. Like your outro says, “just do it, yes you can”. All the most successful people have this mindset.
Bill obviously didn't tell you it's "shoot" the ball, not "throw". Lol
I find it hilarious people who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground concerning PEDs are the most vocal abt who is on them. Those of us who have years of experience say little, bc we know for the ppl who optimized themselves pre-PED, being on an am of PED’s that doesn’t get caught when tested will only add a small amt of incremental improvement. That CAN be the difference between finishing in the money vs. out, but its not what got them there.
Listen here Andrew, I will not sit idly by and listen to this Sevan slander... 😤😤😤😤
Without a doubt almost all the women are
……”please subscribe”
I believe in Sevan deadlifiting 800 lbs with some Juicy Juice
is it true that you are getting done ?
Hiller, you have something in your hair and I cannot unsee it. Sorry, I am easily distracted.
I'm more of a fake weight guy myself
Enjoy the content and not hating. Just find it funny….
Do you just always hangout around the house shirtless and then just start making a video randomly or are you like “okay time to make a video!” *Grabs camera and rips off shirt*
Dude, never cheat, just work harder.
And yes, there are some freaks. At 70 years old, I still bench press 300 pounds on a machine. Both rotars and partially torn now; free weights take too much control. Weight machine is just pure power, very easy.
Collegiate heavyweight wrestler 50 years ago.
Used to wrestle at 235 lbs. 55 inch chest, 37.5 inch waist, and 32 inch circumference on the thighs, 21 inch neck. Naturally, just 18.5 inches). We did a ton of neck work.
On the water dunk test, I tested just under 5.0% body fat. In the off-season, we did a ten mile morning run. sometimes I could do it under an hour. For you non-accountants, that is 10 sub-six minute miles in a row, by a man who benches 450 pounds. When I was young, if I looked at weights, I gained muscle. The strength coach used to yell at me when the lats would lift my arms off my body.
Some of us are just freaks, I lift a total of 5 minutes a day and bench 300 lbs. Not the 450 lbs that I benched free weights in college wrestling, but it is 50 years later. Still have a resting heart rate of 61, and I am 40 pounds overweight.
- The retired redneck accountant
They all on juice bro.
What?
Jesus Christ
I’m here for you bro 😢❤
Sucks for the natty people who are actually natty and then get vilified for rheroric like this.... Mal Obrien got ripped apart in the comments when participating in the open. I get your point but it also does damage to those truly working their asses off and yet everyone is sus of them. Wonder why MOB took a step back *sarcasm
Mal is definitely not a natural athlete 😂
@gregcurry4784 oh well
Your lying to yourself if you believe all the top crossfit athletes are clean.
Lol is Sevan okay😂😂😂
LW 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Let this be what I want it to be 😅
What’s that
@@hillerfit a natty or not video on the your thumbnail!
Keep Sevan’s name out of your mouth!
Thank you
🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
I think your very wrong about anyone being natural in the games. Medero might not look like a user but steroids are not only for muscular gains but for recovery and muscular endurance. And saying 5% increase only is even funnier. Most of those top athletes would be nobody’s without the gear.
Facts. I like Hiller for calling out the bullshit.