punk lives on as an attitude, less so a strict genre of music. There is still and will always be punk music, but nowadays everything is so eclectic that any sound can have punk energy or be punk. underground hip hop is punk energy, underground acid house/ illegal raves are punk energy. Hyper pop is punk energy. Anything with anti establishment ethos/against the grain vibes can be punk! :D
Absolutely. For me, I see punk as a platform for outsider artists to give it 100% without being filtered by 'best practices' etc. It's hit and miss but when it hits it's on fire. I vote for Panik by Metal Urbain as a classic punk/electronic fusion. Love Suicide!
Worth mentioning that Bernard Sumner built himself a Transcendent 2000, a monophonic bassline synthesizer that was not used in "Love Will Tear Us Apart". That synth was the ARP Omni, which was not built from a kit as the Transcendent was.
You said it for me. I'm staring at a broken Omni in the corner of the room as I type this. I bought it second hand in the late 80's to get that Joy Division sound and it stopped working a week later. Made in America.
Feel like Kraftwerk has to be mentioned in there somewhere. Agreed dance music and punk have a shared DIY aesthetic, but Kraftwerk were making their own synths years before the UK lot and were one of the main influences especially on Detroit Techno. I enjoy these videos but they should make it clear that these are introductions to an idea or scene. Feel like they try and encapsulate too much in a short amount of time. Just my two cents.
I'm not denying that, just found it strange when they mentioned Joy Division's Bernard Sumner making their own synths as a landmark, like they were the first ones to it. To be fair, I'm picking holes now. Still very good videos, and great introductions and line ties for the general public.
Also, I think Suicide should have been mentioned. They were considered one of the first "punk" acts to use synths and electronics, and their recordings helped pave the way for synth pop, industrial, and of course electronic dance music.
Not bad, but missed out the industrial scene (TG and Psychic TV, especially the Jack the Tab album), Cabaret Voltaire and the EBM/New Beat scene (Nitzer Ebb and Front 242 being faves at early raves)
Another part of the punk to dance path was record stores. The distribution networks and retailers that grew up selling unconventional records like punk, then post-punk, often also distributed/sold dance music, and some were record labels themselves. Wax Trax! in Chicago was a prime example of all of this.
You miss the point, Victor. The ethic of punk created the electronic music scene. As an aging punk who grew up in Detroit in the 70's I was fortunate to be part of this ground breaking scene. Punk became trance and techno not because of musical influences, but because of shared social values. It was (and to a large extent still is) about telling the music industry to fuck off, we'll diy. Samples are shared like musical instruments - hooks and riffs are reused again and again as commonly as musical instruments once were. Record companies would be going around from band to band demanding royalties for sampling; producers often now release their music under licenses like the GPL, telling the industry to GFY, we don't need you.
You didn’t mention Kraftwerk, Suicide, or Throbbing Gristle. I’m not sure if you can talk about the bridge between punk and electronic music without mentioning those three.
Suicide could be heard as proto-punk. Throbbing Gristle never self-identified as punk (preferring industrial). Kraftwerk also predates punk but most certainly provided a fatherly influence on several post-punk groups.
The track that comes in at 6 min is "Warm Leatherette" by The Normal on Mute Records (Mute 001, if memory serves). Most people know it from the Grace Jones cover.
What a forgettable record that was, thank goodness the Germans did so much Prolific music and innovation with synths, who did we have that were keeping up with them in the UK?
Sun Ra should have been mentionned. Ra was like the first artist in the 1950-60s to have shared the DIY aesthetic! He would hand paint the record sleeves himself and sell them at his gig very very DIY. No other artist did this in the 50's. He was even the first to introduce synthesis in Free/Avant Garde Jazz!
Another 5 minutes with the highly important inclusion of bands like Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, Foetus in the UK and Kraftwerk, DAF and Einstürzende Neubauten in Germany and the entire bridge between punk mutating into all the various forms of dance music, and this clip would've been a solid piece of information.
I was kinda hoping they would get all the way to breakcore, I feel like there's definitely a solid punk influence there even if it is quite far removed
While Bernard Sumner did build a Transcendent 2000 from an electronics magazine, the lead for Lovevwill tear us apart was played on a Solina String Ensemble
It should be titled "How punk shaped electronic *dance* music. Everybody today seems to have forgotten that the term electronic music doesn't mean just dance music.
Exactly sir, but RA and others self-entitled cool magazines consider Techno and Deep House the epithome of electronic music, kidnapping the role of avanguarde and always glorifying the Berlin and Detroit scenes, laughable idiots...
Except it does 99% of the time. EVer seen a Aphex Twin live performance? Jean Michel Jarre? Bonobo? Most non dance electronic music acts do play electronic dance music for live performances. Dont be stupid
I wasn't around in those days, bit I think nitzer ebb and front 242 should have a spot in there. They should've spent more time on the history of illegal outdoor/warehouse parties. I'm glad someone mentioned the connection though :)
Finally!! I know this video is two years old but damn, it’s about time that someone made this very important connection. Punk was my pathway to electronic, then, underground dance music. I was never into hip hop so there were definitely more roads to modern music than just one as people now seem to believe.
Very good point at the end about how literally anybody with an interest in creating electronic music these days can learn probably everything they need to know off youtube. This coupled with synthesisers, sequencers, and drum machines having never been so affordable or accessible means we will only see more and more bedroom producers making music in this decade. I think the up and coming generation will be more inclined to start with electronic music rather than learning to play a guitar because of this. Why learn to play a guitar and go the effort of forming a band when i can buy a synth and a drum machine for a grand and make music instantly.
My only quibble with this mini-doc was the inference that Chicago House was influenced by Punk. I can't deny the connection, but House Music owes a HUGE debt to what was known as "rare groove," which were obscure R&B records DJ's played to rock the party. These records were sped up in BPM and placed a large emphasis on the rhythm section.
Another step: Hawkwind, especially through its early singles such as "Urban Guerilla" and "Silver Machine", was a heavy influence on the British forms of both punk and new wave. Hawkwind also proved a massive influence on future electronic artists, the dance genres "proper."
Stephen Morris talks about his experiences with Hawkwind and the festival scene (and acid) as a teenager before Joy Division. The free festival scene went its own way in the early 80s, but provided a critical element of rave a few years later.
Yes,but German Electronic Bands like Neu,Kraftwerk,Cluster or Tangerin Dream are missing Also Industrial as Cabaret Voltaire,Throbbing Gristle and EBM from Front 242,Nitzer Ebb,DAF,...
I watched this, thought it was really good, you summed up the history in a really logical way for such a short amount of time. You understood the musical lineage perfectly. Then I thought, I’ll go and read all the glowing comments. Christ...
Spurious connection. In the 70's and 80' I ate, drank and danced my way through both the Punk scene and New Wave scene in both England and San Francisco...fantastic times for sure. Both Punk and New Wave were forms of rebel music, like the hip hop, grunge, metal and bass music scenes that followed. But the only things punk and electronic music had in common were the rebel spirit, and freedom on the dancefloor (which was where you just did your own thing). The only place Punk and New Wave intersected was Industrial. Not mentioning industrial reveals you were born after 1990, and/or you grew up listening to your parents Enya records.
I disagree about Industrial being the only place Punk and New Wave intersected. New Wave was a movement in rock/pop music just as much as it was a style that could be identified by musical characteristics. And as part of that movement, there were many punk & post punk acts who may not have been pure quintessential New Wave acts but could still be seen as being on the periphery of the New Wave movement. So punk bands like The Clash definitely had New Wave elements to their work like the Combat Rock album. Likewise some of The Cure‘s more commercial and less gothic songs could be seen as leaning closer to new wave than their usual post punk stuff, same goes for Siouxshie and the Banshees. And overall there’s plenty more examples of where punk/post punk and new wave can be seen intersecting. I really don’t think industrial is the only middle ground between the two styles here.
Also left out big names like Giorgio Moroder, Patrick Cowley and Sylvester. These artists as well as Italo disco transformed disco records into faster paced High Energy music (HI-NRG). This was first being experimented on in the mid to late 70's way before its time. It later caught on in the early 80's and became house music in the late 80's early 90's. Not to mention the gay scene that heavly played in creating clubs that we all know and love today.
Not to diminish their profound influence at all, but the topic of this video is how punk influenced electronic music - as much as I love them they're not a punk act
I think heavy metal became one of the inspirations for modern day American dubstep. I used to despise skrillex, and American dubstep, but when I went to my first dubstep show and saw how everyone was headbanging and raging, like they would at the many metal shows I’ve been to
So we're not going to talk about Big Audio Dynamite or PiL? If we're talking about how punk influenced electronic music you have to bring up Mick Jones
The true creation of Punk in the form of Electronic Music (the end product or marriage of different influences) is Industrial Music and what was released at Chicago’s Wax Traxx Records. This is very overlooked but in Chicago we knew the alternative to Disco and House as Industrial Music. It went hand in hand. Industrial Music was a gateway for Punk kids or people into Rock music into Electronic Dance Music.
Today? Dance Music __desperately__ needs its own punk movement. Punk is not a style of music. It's a mindset. It's an attitude. DIY is just one aspect of that. That said, much like Punk killed the excesses of 70's (Classic) Rock and Prog Rock, perhaps it's time for Dance Music to kill its over-dependence on the Roland drum sounds? Does the world __really__ need another 303 tweaker? Hint: Oh hell no! The (sad) irony is, the Roland drum product line was intended for "rock & roll" - for which it was a relative (sales) failure. It wasn't until some non-conformists, some crazies (if you will) reapplied those machine in fresh and innovative ways that they un-failed. Where are today's crazies? Where is the excitement? Where is the sense of adventure? Why is so much of today's dance music so stale and predictable? Sad really.
A lot of known dance music that is popular is stale, but there is a lot of music out there. There is not the same innovation as there was in the '80's, '90s due to the fact that technology hasn't produced much truly new instrumentation. Modular synthesis, sequencers, midi, digital audio etc were simply more groundbreaking from what was before it. Software has provided newer capabilities, but so far no one has used it to really have a grand new thing, as it's all still electronic and giving the same things as before, but it is more accessible and easier to use (in a computer DAW for example). It has nothing to do with culture, it is material conditions that make the culture. Rock n Roll (among other genres) was made after the invention of elctro-acoustic instruments, techno/house/idm/edm/blah blah come from synthesizers and computer programming. In the early 2000's, I thought it was possible that surround sound playback could have had an impact in new musical styles, but at least to this day, it's not accessible (cost) and benefits are not really clear because of its inaccessible nature. Never mixed music in that environment, but always thought there was potential in it..
I agree with most of the previous comments..... this documentary is total BS..... the real bridge was industrial music in the late 70's.... Throbbing gristle played punk venues to punk crowds, Cabaret Voltaire made groundbreaking electronic tunes and SPK and Whitehouse and nurse with wound pushed what was acceptable to the punks as music! When TG disbanded.... Chris and Cosey pushed the dance element and psychic tv pushed the experimental element..... and out of psychic tv came COIL.... who produced one of the most groundbreaking electronic records.... love's secret domain in 1990..... that in turn inspired most of the warp artists..... Oh, and Bernard sumner didn't build the synth that was played on love will tear us apart..... I believe that was an ARP solina string ensemble.....
And a DJ Drummer went to Dusseldorf meeting Kraftwerk in 1979 and returned armed with the sound of the future . The Blitz Club London where the future sound of europe was born. And RA have no idea who Rusty Egan is and where Techo came from and the 1st Hip Hop tracks but hey you were not born.
i feel like their conclusion was accurate but as a music producer im able to say its not as easy as they used to say it was. it still takes a ton of time and effort to learn and can be extremely frustrating at first
Chicago had its own Punk scene in the 70’s and Wax Traxx artist were influenced buy what happened. Add New Wave with Disco and Punk independence. Along with experimental NYC artists , we get a huge part of House Music in Chicago. The other part to electronic music can be added with what was happening in England Belgium NYC Canada, and Detroit. We have all these music genres developing and feeding off each other at the same time. You’re channel should recognize Herb Kent Punkout radio show. It was a show that predated Detroit’s radio show on a black owned radio station. In the states this was progressive open minded and in spirit Punk!
Like these videos, but hoping for a more in depth take on the themes explored at a later date, similar to Real Scenes? Give the players a chance to contextualise the conversation on their own terms. It's always better received that way.
Think you've overlooked the simple fact that the accessibility and development of synth technology was around the same time as the punk scene. That's the main factor here.
p-p-p-pirate! plus second hands gear. It’s not that much more expensive than. A shitty drum kit or a guitar. Again, it’s about the attitude not the gears and/or musical proficiency.
lots of incredible free software out there. all you need is a computer. even a 90s computer with floppy disks and tracker software will do. most old school keyboards that people just basically disown will also do. you just have to be creative and resourceful.
I feel like if this video came out 10 years ago it would be accepted and the comments would be as accepting as any watchmojo vid. Take a look at the comments section, and it seems like the people in the comments have a greater contextual understanding of the music than the video we’re commenting on.
Correction, the art of sampling cannot be traced back to Hip-Hop but the art of Hip-Hop can be traced back to sampling. Djs playing funk/soul/jazz/reggae were sampling in the late 60s, the term Hip-Hop didn't arrive until the late 70s.
The Temporary Autonomous Zone concept is much more related to the freeparty movement than clubculture, two very different ambients, the first one has much more punkish attitudes in it... anyways super video!
Good video,but Joy Division didn't become New Order 3 years after Curtis' death.They morphed in to New Order just months after Ian died.They did release Blue Monday 3 years after he died in 1980.Not to nitpick,but it is important to show how courageous they were to go on after losing their friend ,and in such tragic circumstances.
Where do I begin with all the factual errors in this video? New Order were not formed 3 years after Ian Curtis’ death. It was almost immediately releasing “Movement” in 81 just months after his death. Barney did build his own synth (Transcendent 2000) but he did not play it on Love Will Tear Us a Apart. The Pet Shop Boys did not “soon” follow Numan (79) and Depeche Mode (80) not successfully charting until 86. Just someone lazily not doing their research, cynically knowing that just dropping some famous names will be enough to get plenty of views.
It's a good video but one that's 3x as long might be needed to more fully explore all the influences. Not mentioned was early influencers Throbbing Gristle, Devo, The Stranglers, Ultravox, DAF [Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft], Suicide, Kraftwerk, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Cabaret Voltaire. And then a little later there was Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, Skinny Puppy, Dead Or Alive.... I'm sure I'm missing important ones!
Interesting video, but this idea that electronic music somehow requires less skill to produce and that synths aren't "real" instruments is something that grinds my gears because it isn't true at all. Thankfully, that perception mostly died out in the 70s.
this is great, but most of these points have already been covered (in great depth) in the bbc doc "synth britannica", should still be on youtube in it's entirety
Punk directly comes form reggae and skaa which is british. In britain electronic music comes from house of course from Chicago and the illegal raves in the UK in the 80s, the second summer of love, but also jungle which is a another jamaican genre, which them stemmed into drum and bass, electro, techno, GARAGE,and pretty much every electronic dance music known to man since it crossed the continent to mainland europe and well, pretty much everywhere. Another thing to add.
Some of you don't know real hardcore electronic punk. Lethal Sound Dischord is a project I've been working on since 2007. soundsofthefuture.bandcamp.com/album/audio-terror
I bought a bunch of CDs from the early 90s era with rave music on the flea market. Still digging a lot of it. Sometimes it's a tad too twitchy and chaotic but generally pretty wild. Generally I find genres most exciting in the early experimental stage, they tend to quickly become less diverse afterwards as in drumnass and dubstep IMO.
it would be great to see same kind of thoughts about the influence of early electroacoustic music, musique concrète, modern classical etc. Or is there one already? pax pax
rajatonvimma sampling was pretty much invented in late 40s in France by musique conrete pioneers like Pierry Henry. Technology was primitive at the time, and only accesible by few composers with knowleadge so they could experiment with „electronic music”. In the late 60s and early 70s synthesizers and technology became available and more accesible for average person, so you could buy your own gear and play music.
While I like punk and love dance music, unfortunately we can’t forget the influence intelligence agencies and think tanks like Tavistock had on both scenes. Sad but true part of the history and the present state of dance music.
punk lives on as an attitude, less so a strict genre of music. There is still and will always be punk music, but nowadays everything is so eclectic that any sound can have punk energy or be punk. underground hip hop is punk energy, underground acid house/ illegal raves are punk energy. Hyper pop is punk energy. Anything with anti establishment ethos/against the grain vibes can be punk! :D
Nascar aloe
Well said
Well said
Skateboarding is punk rock
Absolutely. For me, I see punk as a platform for outsider artists to give it 100% without being filtered by 'best practices' etc. It's hit and miss but when it hits it's on fire. I vote for Panik by Metal Urbain as a classic punk/electronic fusion. Love Suicide!
Anybody watching this should be checking out the BBC Doc. Synth Britannia - really good hour long doc on punk to synth pop.
Yes I thought that while watching. Great documentary with interviews with many synth pop pioneers
Definitely worth seeing!
You should also try the doc Made in Sheffield
Worth mentioning that Bernard Sumner built himself a Transcendent 2000, a monophonic bassline synthesizer that was not used in "Love Will Tear Us Apart". That synth was the ARP Omni, which was not built from a kit as the Transcendent was.
You said it for me. I'm staring at a broken Omni in the corner of the room as I type this. I bought it second hand in the late 80's to get that Joy Division sound and it stopped working a week later. Made in America.
Feel like Kraftwerk has to be mentioned in there somewhere. Agreed dance music and punk have a shared DIY aesthetic, but Kraftwerk were making their own synths years before the UK lot and were one of the main influences especially on Detroit Techno.
I enjoy these videos but they should make it clear that these are introductions to an idea or scene. Feel like they try and encapsulate too much in a short amount of time. Just my two cents.
i saw this video from as a philosophical exercise, like what gave the larger influence of the whole scene, like DIY mentality et al....
I'm not denying that, just found it strange when they mentioned Joy Division's Bernard Sumner making their own synths as a landmark, like they were the first ones to it. To be fair, I'm picking holes now. Still very good videos, and great introductions and line ties for the general public.
Also, I think Suicide should have been mentioned. They were considered one of the first "punk" acts to use synths and electronics, and their recordings helped pave the way for synth pop, industrial, and of course electronic dance music.
I'm surprised the Gang of Four (invented Dance Punk) and Dead Can Dance weren't mentioned. Seem like fairly obvious touchstones.
To be fair, you can't cover everything within this very broad topic. I think we, myself included, are asking too much of a 7/8 minute video.
Not bad, but missed out the industrial scene (TG and Psychic TV, especially the Jack the Tab album), Cabaret Voltaire and the EBM/New Beat scene (Nitzer Ebb and Front 242 being faves at early raves)
also the early punk squat/rave crossover, Mutoid Waste Company etc
Another part of the punk to dance path was record stores. The distribution networks and retailers that grew up selling unconventional records like punk, then post-punk, often also distributed/sold dance music, and some were record labels themselves. Wax Trax! in Chicago was a prime example of all of this.
yes i agree
You miss the point, Victor. The ethic of punk created the electronic music scene. As an aging punk who grew up in Detroit in the 70's I was fortunate to be part of this ground breaking scene. Punk became trance and techno not because of musical influences, but because of shared social values. It was (and to a large extent still is) about telling the music industry to fuck off, we'll diy. Samples are shared like musical instruments - hooks and riffs are reused again and again as commonly as musical instruments once were. Record companies would be going around from band to band demanding royalties for sampling; producers often now release their music under licenses like the GPL, telling the industry to GFY, we don't need you.
Ministry and Die Warzau
My life changed when the vocal-less genres came up. Techno, trance, psy trance and drum and bass were my paradise for about 20 years. So pure.
You didn’t mention Kraftwerk, Suicide, or Throbbing Gristle. I’m not sure if you can talk about the bridge between punk and electronic music without mentioning those three.
Obsolete Beats I think they did
those groups aren't punk
@robinsss Suicide not punk? lmao
Suicide could be heard as proto-punk. Throbbing Gristle never self-identified as punk (preferring industrial). Kraftwerk also predates punk but most certainly provided a fatherly influence on several post-punk groups.
@@DerekPower "Suicide are groundbreakers!" (Words of Lydia Lunch)
The track that comes in at 6 min is "Warm Leatherette" by The Normal on Mute Records (Mute 001, if memory serves). Most people know it from the Grace Jones cover.
What a forgettable record that was, thank goodness the Germans did so much Prolific music and innovation with synths, who did we have that were keeping up with them in the UK?
Sun Ra should have been mentionned.
Ra was like the first artist in the 1950-60s to have shared the DIY aesthetic! He would hand paint the record sleeves himself and sell them at his gig very very DIY. No other artist did this in the 50's.
He was even the first to introduce synthesis in Free/Avant Garde Jazz!
Another 5 minutes with the highly important inclusion of bands like Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, Foetus in the UK and Kraftwerk, DAF and Einstürzende Neubauten in Germany and the entire bridge between punk mutating into all the various forms of dance music, and this clip would've been a solid piece of information.
Foetus was in New York, most of that time, part of and parodying No Wave
I was kinda hoping they would get all the way to breakcore, I feel like there's definitely a solid punk influence there even if it is quite far removed
While Bernard Sumner did build a Transcendent 2000 from an electronics magazine, the lead for Lovevwill tear us apart was played on a Solina String Ensemble
It should be titled "How punk shaped electronic *dance* music. Everybody today seems to have forgotten that the term electronic music doesn't mean just dance music.
Exactly sir, but RA and others self-entitled cool magazines consider Techno and Deep House the epithome of electronic music, kidnapping the role of avanguarde and always glorifying the Berlin and Detroit scenes, laughable idiots...
Thats why people over at The Wire are smirking.
Except it does 99% of the time. EVer seen a Aphex Twin live performance? Jean Michel Jarre? Bonobo? Most non dance electronic music acts do play electronic dance music for live performances. Dont be stupid
Except then it sounds like they're chatting about EDM
True. Electronic music itself is way older than just the 70's.
No talk of the band Suicide? Great video though!
danzilor As well as Metal Urbain and industrial artists like Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire
Throbbing Gristle for sure needs to be mentioned
I thought the same. Suicide might be the most important band with ties to both punk and electronic music.
Literally the band that first used "punk show" on a flyer.
I actually didn't know this, I need to see this poster haha.
I wasn't around in those days, bit I think nitzer ebb and front 242 should have a spot in there. They should've spent more time on the history of illegal outdoor/warehouse parties. I'm glad someone mentioned the connection though :)
Finally!! I know this video is two years old but damn, it’s about time that someone made this very important connection. Punk was my pathway to electronic, then, underground dance music. I was never into hip hop so there were definitely more roads to modern music than just one as people now seem to believe.
I love these type of videos from you guys! This one and the Burial video inspired me so much.
Very good point at the end about how literally anybody with an interest in creating electronic music these days can learn probably everything they need to know off youtube. This coupled with synthesisers, sequencers, and drum machines having never been so affordable or accessible means we will only see more and more bedroom producers making music in this decade. I think the up and coming generation will be more inclined to start with electronic music rather than learning to play a guitar because of this. Why learn to play a guitar and go the effort of forming a band when i can buy a synth and a drum machine for a grand and make music instantly.
richard h kirk rolled his eyes at this video.
Huge omission. Cabaret Voltaire were absolutely seminal.
best comment so far!
My only quibble with this mini-doc was the inference that Chicago House was influenced by Punk. I can't deny the connection, but House Music owes a HUGE debt to what was known as "rare groove," which were obscure R&B records DJ's played to rock the party. These records were sped up in BPM and placed a large emphasis on the rhythm section.
And also misses how early industrial was a huge influence on electronic music…
that would be an entirely separate 20 minute video i reckon
And don't forget about the origins of Industrial. Like Musique Concrete,Avant-Garde music and Noise music.
What about throbbing gristle?
Yes! Punk and Electronic, my two favourite genres.
Ever hear Deathset? ;)
@@n1lla thank you for that recommendation
Another step:
Hawkwind, especially through its early singles such as "Urban Guerilla" and "Silver Machine", was a heavy influence on the British forms of both punk and new wave. Hawkwind also proved a massive influence on future electronic artists, the dance genres "proper."
Stephen Morris talks about his experiences with Hawkwind and the festival scene (and acid) as a teenager before Joy Division. The free festival scene went its own way in the early 80s, but provided a critical element of rave a few years later.
I think you forgot to mention Brian Eno, Gary Neumann, Suicide, Kraftwerk and Devo.
Yes,but German Electronic Bands like Neu,Kraftwerk,Cluster or Tangerin Dream are missing Also Industrial as Cabaret Voltaire,Throbbing Gristle and EBM from Front 242,Nitzer Ebb,DAF,...
Stephan Venner great minds think alike!
This video is fatuous drivel.
No mention of Suicide? They were the first band to blend the two genres. I think they even predate the Ramones.
I watched this, thought it was really good, you summed up the history in a really logical way for such a short amount of time. You understood the musical lineage perfectly. Then I thought, I’ll go and read all the glowing comments. Christ...
Spurious connection. In the 70's and 80' I ate, drank and danced my way through both the Punk scene and New Wave scene in both England and San Francisco...fantastic times for sure. Both Punk and New Wave were forms of rebel music, like the hip hop, grunge, metal and bass music scenes that followed. But the only things punk and electronic music had in common were the rebel spirit, and freedom on the dancefloor (which was where you just did your own thing). The only place Punk and New Wave intersected was Industrial. Not mentioning industrial reveals you were born after 1990, and/or you grew up listening to your parents Enya records.
Naaah, there was a massive crossover in the 80's, Mutoid Waste parties, On U Sound, Peckham Dole House, Hacienda, The Clash getting into hip hop etc
I disagree about Industrial being the only place Punk and New Wave intersected.
New Wave was a movement in rock/pop music just as much as it was a style that could be identified by musical characteristics. And as part of that movement, there were many punk & post punk acts who may not have been pure quintessential New Wave acts but could still be seen as being on the periphery of the New Wave movement.
So punk bands like The Clash definitely had New Wave elements to their work like the Combat Rock album. Likewise some of The Cure‘s more commercial and less gothic songs could be seen as leaning closer to new wave than their usual post punk stuff, same goes for Siouxshie and the Banshees.
And overall there’s plenty more examples of where punk/post punk and new wave can be seen intersecting. I really don’t think industrial is the only middle ground between the two styles here.
If you're as old as you say you are, how could you have forgotten crossover Punk/Electronic acts like Suicide or The Normal?
‘Blue Monday’ and Depeche Mode’s ‘Photographic’ also show Kraftwerk’s influence on post-punk and synth-pop.
Also left out big names like Giorgio Moroder, Patrick Cowley and Sylvester. These artists as well as Italo disco transformed disco records into faster paced High Energy music (HI-NRG). This was first being experimented on in the mid to late 70's way before its time. It later caught on in the early 80's and became house music in the late 80's early 90's. Not to mention the gay scene that heavly played in creating clubs that we all know and love today.
Strange it was so short, could have gone into real depth with this one! Very good regardless!
How did you not mention Kraftwerk?!
Not to diminish their profound influence at all, but the topic of this video is how punk influenced electronic music - as much as I love them they're not a punk act
Really glad she explained what punk music is, I really had no idea
industrial???
I agree. Industrial is arguably what led up to Electronic rock today.
Just a little bit, on the side please.
Last track.... Pangaea - Bone Sucka
And now we have all these mainstream artists/entertainers with Pitch correction/autotone. We need Punk rock more than ever.
ooooh, so THATS why I love both genres! They were always connected!
These RA videos are fantastic! Keep up the good work
“Rave was more punk than punk” JASJSJAJ LOVING IT
I think heavy metal became one of the inspirations for modern day American dubstep. I used to despise skrillex, and American dubstep, but when I went to my first dubstep show and saw how everyone was headbanging and raging, like they would at the many metal shows I’ve been to
Karl Hyde, what a man. Underworld is probably the greatest dance act of the 90s.
And the synth on Love Will Tear Us Apart is an ARP Omni. The homemade jobby was used more on Unknown Pleasures.
So we're not going to talk about Big Audio Dynamite or PiL? If we're talking about how punk influenced electronic music you have to bring up Mick Jones
The true creation of Punk in the form of Electronic Music (the end product or marriage of different influences) is Industrial Music and what was released at Chicago’s Wax Traxx Records. This is very overlooked but in Chicago we knew the alternative to Disco and House as Industrial Music. It went hand in hand. Industrial Music was a gateway for Punk kids or people into Rock music into Electronic Dance Music.
Today? Dance Music __desperately__ needs its own punk movement. Punk is not a style of music. It's a mindset. It's an attitude. DIY is just one aspect of that.
That said, much like Punk killed the excesses of 70's (Classic) Rock and Prog Rock, perhaps it's time for Dance Music to kill its over-dependence on the Roland drum sounds? Does the world __really__ need another 303 tweaker? Hint: Oh hell no!
The (sad) irony is, the Roland drum product line was intended for "rock & roll" - for which it was a relative (sales) failure. It wasn't until some non-conformists, some crazies (if you will) reapplied those machine in fresh and innovative ways that they un-failed.
Where are today's crazies? Where is the excitement? Where is the sense of adventure? Why is so much of today's dance music so stale and predictable? Sad really.
its in grime
Look up LA Club Resource, they're a label that puts out a lot raw minimalist house, as well as underground rap.
Breakcore.
The 303 is not a drum machine... I think you meant the 808 & 909.
A lot of known dance music that is popular is stale, but there is a lot of music out there.
There is not the same innovation as there was in the '80's, '90s due to the fact that technology hasn't produced much truly new instrumentation. Modular synthesis, sequencers, midi, digital audio etc were simply more groundbreaking from what was before it. Software has provided newer capabilities, but so far no one has used it to really have a grand new thing, as it's all still electronic and giving the same things as before, but it is more accessible and easier to use (in a computer DAW for example). It has nothing to do with culture, it is material conditions that make the culture. Rock n Roll (among other genres) was made after the invention of elctro-acoustic instruments, techno/house/idm/edm/blah blah come from synthesizers and computer programming.
In the early 2000's, I thought it was possible that surround sound playback could have had an impact in new musical styles, but at least to this day, it's not accessible (cost) and benefits are not really clear because of its inaccessible nature. Never mixed music in that environment, but always thought there was potential in it..
Great Narration Moxie (DJ) I am Gratefull to have lived experiencing all with Friends old new my Tribe and yet to meet ❤ x
I've always seen the connection between punk, metal, and modern edm. Really good video
I think you ment to say "how Dub and Lee Perry shaped and what electronic music became"
they did kinda reference reggae culture… perhaps in another vid?
I agree with most of the previous comments..... this documentary is total BS..... the real bridge was industrial music in the late 70's.... Throbbing gristle played punk venues to punk crowds, Cabaret Voltaire made groundbreaking electronic tunes and SPK and Whitehouse and nurse with wound pushed what was acceptable to the punks as music! When TG disbanded.... Chris and Cosey pushed the dance element and psychic tv pushed the experimental element..... and out of psychic tv came COIL.... who produced one of the most groundbreaking electronic records.... love's secret domain in 1990..... that in turn inspired most of the warp artists.....
Oh, and Bernard sumner didn't build the synth that was played on love will tear us apart..... I believe that was an ARP solina string ensemble.....
I believe the correct fact would be that the lead sound from Love Will Tear Us Apart is played on an Arp Omni 2.
Great Stuff RA! Love the production and vintage clips 😍🎧🎹💿💻🎙
And a DJ Drummer went to Dusseldorf meeting Kraftwerk in 1979 and returned armed with the sound of the future . The Blitz Club London where the future sound of europe was born. And RA have no idea who Rusty Egan is and where Techo came from and the 1st Hip Hop tracks but hey you were not born.
Brother RA have become the new Mixmag. Never telling the whole truth.
i feel like their conclusion was accurate but as a music producer im able to say its not as easy as they used to say it was. it still takes a ton of time and effort to learn and can be extremely frustrating at first
Chicago had its own Punk scene in the 70’s and Wax Traxx artist were influenced buy what happened. Add New Wave with Disco and Punk independence. Along with experimental NYC artists , we get a huge part of House Music in Chicago. The other part to electronic music can be added with what was happening in England Belgium NYC Canada, and Detroit. We have all these music genres developing and feeding off each other at the same time. You’re channel should recognize Herb Kent Punkout radio show. It was a show that predated Detroit’s radio show on a black owned radio station. In the states this was progressive open minded and in spirit Punk!
Where is suicide one of the most underated electronic punk duo ?
Like these videos, but hoping for a more in depth take on the themes explored at a later date, similar to Real Scenes?
Give the players a chance to contextualise the conversation on their own terms. It's always better received that way.
Think you've overlooked the simple fact that the accessibility and development of synth technology was around the same time as the punk scene. That's the main factor here.
jumping in isn't expensive, but getting all the neccessary gear/software to produce quality tracks is quite expensive in total
p-p-p-pirate! plus second hands gear. It’s not that much more expensive than. A shitty drum kit or a guitar. Again, it’s about the attitude not the gears and/or musical proficiency.
@@yaylah7314 eww pirating
lots of incredible free software out there. all you need is a computer. even a 90s computer with floppy disks and tracker software will do. most old school keyboards that people just basically disown will also do. you just have to be creative and resourceful.
I feel like if this video came out 10 years ago it would be accepted and the comments would be as accepting as any watchmojo vid. Take a look at the comments section, and it seems like the people in the comments have a greater contextual understanding of the music than the video we’re commenting on.
Many psy-trance producers was heavily influenced by rock or metal too. You can check guitar solos in Skazi's gigs
There wouldn't be any punk without the post-war Caribbean immigration to the UK and its Ska and Reggae invasion, both being dance genres
Funk music - like James Brown - loops for days.... huuuuge influence. Listen to some James Brown for starters.
Correction, the art of sampling cannot be traced back to Hip-Hop but the art of Hip-Hop can be traced back to sampling. Djs playing funk/soul/jazz/reggae were sampling in the late 60s, the term Hip-Hop didn't arrive until the late 70s.
The Temporary Autonomous Zone concept is much more related to the freeparty movement than clubculture, two very different ambients, the first one has much more punkish attitudes in it... anyways super video!
Rhythm and melody.
Rhythm... and melody.
Foundational influencers like Kraftwerk, Ministry, Suicide and a lot of other proto punk and early industrial outfits were left off...
Thank you again RA
I was in the London acid techno scene for years, we were punks 😊
Cabaret Voltaire!!
Good video,but Joy Division didn't become New Order 3 years after Curtis' death.They morphed in to New Order just months after Ian died.They did release Blue Monday 3 years after he died in 1980.Not to nitpick,but it is important to show how courageous they were to go on after losing their friend ,and in such tragic circumstances.
It definitely inspired Justice tracks like "we are your friends" and "D.A.N.C.E"
Causal connections are all too happy to be made, while fundamental changes are not about causality, but about breaking it ...
Where do I begin with all the factual errors in this video? New Order were not formed 3 years after Ian Curtis’ death. It was almost immediately releasing “Movement” in 81 just months after his death. Barney did build his own synth (Transcendent 2000) but he did not play it on Love Will Tear Us a Apart. The Pet Shop Boys did not “soon” follow Numan (79) and Depeche Mode (80) not successfully charting until 86.
Just someone lazily not doing their research, cynically knowing that just dropping some famous names will be enough to get plenty of views.
Good video. Wish it was longer
Interesting but soooo many inaccuracies
Please list them ....let others learn.
Amazing!!!! Thanks RA!
Atari Teenage Riot is the perfect example of Punk/Electronic combo
I feel like they should've mentioned the 80s industrial scene: Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Wax Trax Records.... Still a great video though 👌
It's a good video but one that's 3x as long might be needed to more fully explore all the influences. Not mentioned was early influencers Throbbing Gristle, Devo, The Stranglers, Ultravox, DAF [Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft], Suicide, Kraftwerk, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Cabaret Voltaire. And then a little later there was Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, Skinny Puppy, Dead Or Alive.... I'm sure I'm missing important ones!
Ferenc Szabo 👍🏻...Georgio Moroder, Donna Summer, Munich Machine, Can, Donny Ormond (no... not Donny Ormond, except "Crazy Horses"), Chicory Tip, Telex, Sparks, Sylvester, Chrome, Soft Cell...
thx finally a great review on this roots!
Nice one!
Interesting video, but this idea that electronic music somehow requires less skill to produce and that synths aren't "real" instruments is something that grinds my gears because it isn't true at all. Thankfully, that perception mostly died out in the 70s.
Prodigy--Electronic Punk!
this is great, but most of these points have already been covered (in great depth) in the bbc doc "synth britannica", should still be on youtube in it's entirety
Bit of stretch here, the DIY and creative freedom are inherit properties of any artform.
you forget to mention dub and soundsystems.
Punk directly comes form reggae and skaa which is british. In britain electronic music comes from house of course from Chicago and the illegal raves in the UK in the 80s, the second summer of love, but also jungle which is a another jamaican genre, which them stemmed into drum and bass, electro, techno, GARAGE,and pretty much every electronic dance music known to man since it crossed the continent to mainland europe and well, pretty much everywhere. Another thing to add.
wtf lol
Maaaaaate, Reggae and Ska are not British 🤡🤡🤡
Documento histórico da música electrónica!
Some of you don't know real hardcore electronic punk. Lethal Sound Dischord is a project I've been working on since 2007.
soundsofthefuture.bandcamp.com/album/audio-terror
Lead line of Love Will Tear Us Apart was played on a Arp Omni not a DIY synthesizer
for 7:28 min it's a good documentary , thanks you
inspiring
What .. no mention of Abba? ? ?
I bought a bunch of CDs from the early 90s era with rave music on the flea market. Still digging a lot of it. Sometimes it's a tad too twitchy and chaotic but generally pretty wild.
Generally I find genres most exciting in the early experimental stage, they tend to quickly become less diverse afterwards as in drumnass and dubstep IMO.
it would be great to see same kind of thoughts about the influence of early electroacoustic music, musique concrète, modern classical etc. Or is there one already?
pax pax
rajatonvimma sampling was pretty much invented in late 40s in France by musique conrete pioneers like Pierry Henry. Technology was primitive at the time, and only accesible by few composers with knowleadge so they could experiment with „electronic music”. In the late 60s and early 70s synthesizers and technology became available and more accesible for average person, so you could buy your own gear and play music.
love this channel
Massive attack mixed hip hop reggae, post-punk, and acid house. their sound is basically the summary of this video
While I like punk and love dance music, unfortunately we can’t forget the influence intelligence agencies and think tanks like Tavistock had on both scenes. Sad but true part of the history and the present state of dance music.
Only thing that I can possibly add is how much Punk influenced the Belgians to create New Beat and later Eurodance and EBM
Cool Video. Feels like back to basics should have been mentioned though