Is The Church the Israel of God? - DEBATE with Chris Date and Steve Gregg, Part 1 of 2
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- PART 2 - • Is The Church the Isra...
Bible teacher, author and radio host Steve Gregg (thenarrowpath.com) debated Chris Date (www.chrisdate.... and / @rethinkinghell ) an adjunct professor of Bible and theology at Trinity College of the Bible and Theological Seminary on “In the New Covenant context, Israel is the Church, ‘the Israel of God,’ consisting of believing Jews and believing Gentiles.” Gregg to the affirmative position and Date defended the negative position.
#israel #debate #replacementtheology #church #newtestament #eschatology #preterism #amillenialism #dispensationalism #israelisthechurch #chrisdate #stevegregg #thenarrowpath #christianity #christians #theology #biblestudy #brideofchrist #abrahamschildren #bodyofchrist #covenanttheology #supersessionism
PART 2: czcams.com/video/ySR0MYtXHYM/video.html
You nailed it Steve!!
There's no ambiguity with the word of God when understood in the light of 'Him redeeming His own', the Israel of God.
Beginning from the very first words from God to the enemy and gathered throughout the ages.
"She will bruise your head;" She being the faithful Bride, whom was revealed in the new covenant. The beloved who Christ died for.
Christ the head = Israel
Bride the body = The Israel of God
The consummation at the new heaven & new earth. Revelation 21: 1-8 " The heavenly Jerusalem coming down as a bride adorned for her husband.
My beloved is mine and I am His and His banner over me is love.
This is the Israel of God.
I must add to my previous post.
Throughout the ages God has always proclaimed His ordinances and if you believe and repent, well then you have found the treasure.
Hebrews 9:26 " But now, once at the end of the ages, He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."
The pearl of great price was revealed 2000 years ago.
This is true for the pre-flood and for the 1st/old covenant and for the 2nd covenant age of the Messiah. The Messianic kingdom reign. All those who believed in the promise, who is Christ.
Hebrews 11
Because if you believe and have faith that the 'Lamb' slain from the foundation of the world is your payment for sin.
Your sin and my sin. Then you are one of Jesus' sheep.
If you are one of Jesus' sheep then you belong to the 'Israel of God'.
Sheep or goat?
Thanks for all you do Steve! You have done so much to direct people to biblical truth about the Israel of God as the world's eyes are on that part of the world right now.
Chris talks so fast and excitedly reading way too much into things which I know Steve will soon school him on in his usual calm and collected manner. Debaters hung up on Israel always sound so emotional in their delivery. What are they compensating for?
to chris at 6:00 sir, the Gospel and Jesus christ IS offensive. its offensive to my self rightousness, my racism, my pride, my arrogance, my politics, my friends and family. YES the Gospel and Jesus christ IS offensive to jews who reject the Gospel and Jesus christ. IF your Gospel and your Jesus christ is NOT offensive you DONT have the biblical Gospel or Jesus Christ.
Lol
True...the truth " offends"
"Calling the church true israel offends real Israel and impeded their salvation."
Yeah, pride has gotten in their way since the beginning. That's the problem. LOL
I’ll have to return to this debate at a later date, after the study in the book of Romans.
I appreciate the recent Catholic Debate uploads. In conclusion, the debate was nothing more than an undisguised attack on the house church by the denominational church.
Jay Jay. Indeed! To even begin to consider his views, I'd first have to reduce the playback speed by at least 50% 🤣
I fully support Chris' thesis that the Church is those, both Jews and Gentiles who receive Jesus the Christ.
That's what both believe.
@SteveGreggVideos So what's the key difference in both men's positions? Sorta got lost.
@tedbastwock3810 ... Why do yo call them so-called? They are able to prove their ancestry.
I didnt listen to this yet. But yes, the current believers in Christ, which are called the Church, are the Israel of God without debate or question, since Paul states this emphatically in Romans 9. Too bad people with an evil spirit of twistedness and disbelief cant understand something as simple and in your face as Romans 9, not even gregg (who doesn't adhere to the plain understanding of this chapter).
You need to clarify that accusations of Steve Gregg not understanding chapter 9 of Romans.
I believe that Steve understands quite well and teaches as such.
The 'Israel of the flesh' that Paul was talking about was 2000 years ago.
The Israel of God is believers. Past, present & future.
We have DNA studies that show how most of the worlds peoples have intermixed but still can be traced through genetics. However, most of those who call themselves 'Jews' are not ethnically nor hereditary belong to the land of ancient Israel of 2000 years ago.
Only 8 % of ethnic peoples in Palestine are related to ancient bloodline of Hebrew race.
Many if not all are classed as 'Arab or Jew or Christian'.
Why did it end without Steve’s rebuttal?
It's in part 2
@@SteveGreggVideos i figured that out after I saw the title “part 1” 🤦🏻♀️ thanks for replying. 🤗
czcams.com/video/ySR0MYtXHYM/video.html
where is part 2?
czcams.com/video/ySR0MYtXHYM/video.html
I’ve really never heard so much information to subtlety prove you are an Antichrist. He fought long and hard ad nauseam to deny Christ and to elevate physical Israel. Christ is Israel and Abraham’s seed and only those who belong to Him are true Israel and Abrahams seed. Christ now is the true vine and to get to God you must joint to him and not physical Israel. He is clearly one masquerading as an Angel of light..
He’s not a Dispensationalist and while I disagree with his point of view it’s not irrational or ungodly at all. It’s basically just about the wording.
@@raskolnikov6443 Christ is the fulfillment of the promises to all the patriarchs all the way back to Adam and Eve. Israel had the promises to them fulfilled when the messiah came through them and to them. Now he is the true vine and the true Israel. Those who belong to him are the heirs of the promise of God and Israel in the flesh is nothing. Those who belong to Christ are true Israel. This dude lifts Israel in the flesh above Christ.
@@donkropidlowski1446Agreed and he barely uses scripture to back up his claim, he just throws out a bunch of names (no clue who any of them are)... Bible references please🤦
Oops I spoke too soon He just threw out about a dozen plus scripture verses no text/context just the verses 🤦
@@crazycatgirlie Lol!
Adam and Eve had a genuine opportunity to establish God’s tradition. Otherwise it would have been unreasonable for God to issue the instruction to refrain from sexual contact represented symbolically in the Book of Genesis by the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
It only became necessary to replace Adam as the ancestor of goodness after Adam formed a premature relationship with Eve, following Eve’s unprincipled sexual relationship with the angel that was depicted as the serpent in the Book of Genesis.
Jesus was born to establish the position of ancestor of goodness forfeited by Adam. Jesus was the Second Adam from the perspective of his mission to correct Adam’s mistake.
God’s Providence to restore His original purpose of creation which involved true love, true life, and true blood lineage, establishing the tradition that resembles God had to begin through an individual.
God’s preparation of the environment in order to protect the Messiah so that he might live and through marriage establish a bloodline befitting of God was the reason behind establishing a national foundation.
Because the national foundation fell into faithlessness, as happened with Israel, the Messiah Jesus deferred the ceremony of the change of blood lineage of fallen man, which was to take place upon the foundation of his own marriage, thus restoring Adam and Eve’s marriage which was undermined by Satan to his successor the Lord of the Second Advent, who comes in the capacity of the Third Adam.
The direct object of the Third Adam will be the multiracial foundation on the world level which is none other than Christianity which is the second Israel. God doesn’t send the Lord of the Second Advent to coax Antichrists to believe in the Third Adam. They don’t even believe in the Second Adam, let alone the Third Adam.
The primary purpose of God’s Providence of Restoration is to reestablish the central point from which to expand God’s ideal; the foundation of protection for the Messiah is subordinate to the person who possesses God’s bloodline, required to engraft us into God’s bloodline.
Jesus could have engrafted many people to God if he had been able to establish his own family. In that case there wouldn’t have been a Second Coming and it would have been obvious that the chosen people hadn’t disqualified themselves, being replaced instead by believers in the Messiah Jesus. Sadly Israel and the Jews became a museum people and a fossil religion when they betrayed the Messiah.
What are you even talking about? 3rd Adam? Wtf. You are LOST.
3rd Adam???
@@kimmykimkoElements of what was said are derived from some 4th century gnostic sources, further popularized as the serpent seed doctrine by William Branham. This is unfortunately more mainstream now than you would think, when religious people throw the term transhumanism around this is roughly what they're referring to. They will also make MUCH about the Genesis passage concerning the Sons of God having children with the daughters of men, and claim they were all demons and the "bloodline" was corrupted. Their ultimate goal is to eliminate the corrupted bloodline (anyone not a follower of their movement) and institute a new perfect God race. Apparently they're calling it the third Adam now. The term Nazi is thrown around a lot as a pejorative, but you'd have to be blind not to notice the parallels. Bear in mind I'm not part of the uncorrupted lineage they are attempting to restore. Nevertheless, I pray that God gets ahold of this person and that he too comes to a knowledge of the truth. It's not too late for anyone as long as they're "in the body", and it's important to emphasize that I do not hate any of the deceived. As believers we are called to pray for them instead.
Stop spouting that nonsense from the kabbala.