International 8 Ball Rules Part 3 - Combination Shots | Pool School
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 01. 2023
- This is the third video in a series of videos looking at International 8 Ball Rules in pool. In part 3 I talk through how combination shots work as well as covering loss of turn and combination shots on the 8 ball. I discuss how this set of pool rules differs from other rule sets and things to be aware of.
The International 8 ball pool rules have now been adpoted by the World Eightball Pool Federation (WEPF) and the English Pool Association (EPA) and is the rule set used in the Ultimate Pool Series. Formerly known as Supreme rules, this rule set was billed as a hybrid of World Rules and Blackball rules. It aims to simplify the rules and brind things closer to the rules played in American 8 ball and Chinese 8 ball.
The shots are carried out on a 7ft Supreme Winner UK 8 ball table
If you like this video and want to catch all our tutorials and demos as we produce them please subscribe with the link below
/ @poolschool
You can also keep up to date with us on Facebook
/ poolschooluk
Products used in this video
Elkmaster Pro Tips
amzn.to/2YH0Kgw
Super Aramith Pro Cup pool balls (with carry case)
amzn.to/2Ju1gbr
Balls without case
amzn.to/2YDAGmp
Triangle ProChalk
amzn.to/2YGkAIK
8 Ball Cue Rack
amzn.to/2XuVOKh
GoPro HERO8 Camera
amzn.to/2NogG3d
#PoolSchool - Sport
I'm very new to this rule set and appreciate your vids (as always) because our league is adopting them next year. Played a comp on Sunday under int'l rules having played just a dozen or so practice frames immediately before using the new rules and although originally a bit sceptical I really like them now and they are not as tricky to get used to as I thought they would be. We have had so many matches under World rules that were bogged down by covering pockets and deliberate fouls that these will make a refreshing change. I agree that the interpretation of whether attempting to escape a snooker was reasonable or not is gonna cause some arguments, especially towards the end of the night when either the match result is on the line and/or an evening of beer is in full effect!!
I love the scrapping of 2 shots (which at a decent standard almost always equates to loss of frame), I love the loss of turn idea to enable you to clear a pocket (for example) and having to hit a cushion after escaping a snooker is, literally, a game changer ! I just hope our league does not decide to adopt golden breaks or golden ducks as I think they are Mickey Mouse made-for-TV rules!!
One thing that has come up already is where it is totally impossible to play a legal shot. Under WR you just play a deliberate foul but under IR it is, I believe, a re-rack
I completely agree with everything you’ve said there. The golden break is pure luck and should never be worth a frame, like you say just drama for the TV.
Yes is you can’t play a legal shot then it’s stalemate so re-rack.
I wish you would not compare both sets of rules, delete would rules completely it gets confusing when comparing both, I just want to know about international rules
We still play the old pub rules (not world rules) in our league, with the traditional two shots, pocket blocking, no need to hit a cushion on each short (except if you fully snooker someone then a ball has to hit a cushion - cue ball or colour). It's still a very popular ruleset amongst amateurs in the UK but unfortunately means those with less potting ability and ball control skill can end up willing games simply by pocket blocking and playing a snookers which means games often take longer than they should. There is a reason people prefer these old rules but hopefully international rules start becoming adopted more in pub leagues.
International rules seem like a good improvement on world rules too.
Great video btw!
really helpful played 2 comps as a blackball player ,but using these rules and got to 1/4 finals and 2nd round as good potter but not so sav on tacital side ,3rd comp of 21st in 3 man event using internaional rules
Have a go at Balls falling without being Hit. And having to nominate either a touch ball on an open table as well as the need to nominate when playing towards a group of colours and choice is not obvious to the ref.
If balls fall within 5 seconds of everything seemingly coming to rest then they are classed as being potted. However if balls drop without being hit more than 5 seconds after everything comes to rest, then they are replaced. I talk about having to nominate if playing towards a group of colours in part 1 of this series. Touching ball on an open table is complicated but I will do my best to explain.
If for example you are touching a red, and you nominte red (and obviously play away from it) you could then do the following:
1. Pot another red to claim red - continue play
2. Strike either colour set legally without potting - loss of turn - open table
3. Pot a yellow - loss of turn - open table
4. Strike yellow first but put another red - claim reds - continue play
If you are touching red and nominate yellow, you could do the following:
1. Pot a yellow - claim yellow - continue with play
2. Strike red first or pot red - loss of turn - open table
3. Strike yellow first and pot red - loss of turn - open table
4. Strike yellow first no pot - loss of turn - open table
Hope that all makes sense?
Hi Chief, are you sure that you can play a combination(eg spot/stripe) shot on an open table(before groups decided)? Thanks
Yes but to you can only claim the colour you hit first. So for a combination shot you would have to pot both balls to claim the colour strike first.
See this rule:
6a Deciding groups
(4) If one of each group is potted in one shot, the player will be ‘on’ the group struck by the cue ball first unless a foul has occurred, in which case the table remains open.
Great videos as always. When you have 'ball in hand' do you always have to play your own ball first?
For example, my final yellow is near the jaw of a corner pocket with a red ball touching it. There is enough space for me to hit my yellow but I cant pot it. Do I have 'free-table' to allow me to pot my ball using the red first?
Thanks
Thanks. Yes you always have to play your own ball first.
Hi, I'm new to official pool rules, I just play what the lads make up down the local on a Friday night. I'm trying to get into pool more this year and follow one set of rules, International rules seem the most modern and the one most associations are now choosing. I have a couple of questions regarding finishing the frame.
1) Do I have to nominate a pocket for the black ball? Does not naming a pocket or potting in the wrong pocket become loss of frame?
2) When on the black, can I play a combination shot where I hit the black first to pot my opponents colour, in turn leaving the Blackball over the pocket for my next turn? Is this the same as when you're on colours and is a loss of turn. Or does my opponent have ball in hand?
Thanks
1) No you don't need to nominate a pocket on the black. You could completely miss the pocket you are going for, fly round the table and go in somewhere else and it would still be a win (just a lucky one!)
2)Yes you can and it would just be loss of turn. Obviously you'd be leaving your opponent lots of space to pot any of their remaining balls with the black nice and easy over a pocket, but if you thought they weren't likely to clear up their remaining balls then it could be worth doing. If you played the black first potted your opponents ball and then got the black to follow into the pocket, you could win the game in that one shot (easier said than done though sometimes!)
Hope that helps.
Helpfull thankyou.
The combination shot is a great rule..pool in the 90,s just became a game of covering the pockets with your balls before even trying to clear up
If I remember right it was still only one shot If you sunk there ball back in the 80s and 90s
Hi what happens when you break, no colours are potted, the opponent nominates red, but that doesn't go in but a random yellow does?
You don’t need to nominate in international rules, unless it is unclear what you are aiming for. In the situation you describe if the player tries to go for reds and strikes a red ball first, but a yellow drops, then it is just loss of turn and the table is still open. To claim a colour set you have to hit that colour first and pot that colour.
@@PoolSchool thank you.
Does ball in hand still apply when either or both opponents are on the 8 ball? (Assuming a standard foul has been committed)
yes
When your on the black can you play the black onto another colour aka skill shot to win the frame as this came up in are game last night and the referee did not know if that was a legal shot I know you can pot the black then if your white pots another colour that's fine
As long as the black is your last ball and you strike it first with the cue ball then you can play any sort of combination shot with your opponent’s ball. What you can’t do is play it in combination with your last colour.
If the black ball is blocked by the opponents ball, can you play the black onto their ball and then if the black ball goes in afterward a win to the person on the black?
Yes that's correct.
On the break is three point counted after all balls have come to rest? Also you make legal shot on eightball potting it yet the cueball scratches is it loss of game
You count it as it’s happening so if a ball crosses the centre line it’s a point, it doesn’t matter if it then comes back down and comes to rest in the bottom half.
If you pot the white after the black then it’s not a legal shot so it’s loss of game.
Great Video as always. Watch them all the time.
Was wondering about the cue you have, currently using a snooker cue for pool with a 9.5mm tip. Looking to be smaller but always prefer a bigger tip. What size is yours and what do you think is the best for pool?
Cheers.
Cues and tip size are very much a personal choice. Mine is a 9.5mm but a lot of the good players in my league use much smaller than that. The general rule is that a smaller tip will enable you to get more spin but harder to keep the ball straight, with the opposite being true with a larger tip. So a small tip sounds better but you have to have a very good cue action or you’ll struggle.
@@PoolSchool Interested too in cue selection. I use my playing snooker cue for pool matches and happy with that but im interested in getting a break cue. Do most people go light or heavy and small or large tip for break cue?
Question might sound stupid but can you.
If opponents red covering corner pocket and you are on black and is also online with there red can you play a cannon with black to take the pocket without potting the black?
Is that just loss of turn and no foul and legal?
Yep as long as you hit the black first. It would just be loss of turn and your opponent would play from where the cue ball finishes.
Can I play in tournaments with American pool cue ? And if not can you suggest any good brands as my pool background is only in American pool tables 9-ball and 8-ball. Thanks
I don’t see why not, it’s not as though it would be giving you any advantage. Probably have to check for any regulations with specific tournaments but can’t imagine it would be a problem.
I always recommend to people that they “try” a pool cue, rather just buying a particular brand. Most pool halls will have a selection for sale, maybe a local cue maker if you have any local. Ask to try a few and see what feels right for you. There’s no point in me telling people what’s right for me, as it might not be for someone else.
Love the videos!
A question about the combination shot on an open table…
The rule states, I think, that the ball struck first will become ‘on’. However, does this assume both balls (or at least one of each colour) are potted? (I.e a legal combination shot)
If it is a failed combination shot, so the ball struck first is not potted but the second ball (of the other colour) is potted, does that still stand as the first ball struck is ‘on’? Common sense leads me to thinking this is a failed combo shot and loss of turn, therefore still an open table.
Thanks for any advice!
Thanks. Yea you are correct. It would be loss of turn and still open table. In order to claim a colour using a combination shot you would have to pot the colour you struck first. That makes using a combination shot on an open table a little tricky. You’d either need to pot both balls or maybe strike a red into a yellow that then potted another red, for example.
If a ball is frozen on the cushion, is it a legal shot to simply hit the ball along the rail (as if to to pot) without potting as the white ball has touched the SAME cushion as the frozen ball or does a ball have to touch a different cushion to the frozen cushion?
It’s a slightly tricky one, and one which would need to be watched closely by the ref. Because the white is smaller than the object ball, if it was on the cushion as well, you would actually be playing marginally away from the cushion in order for the object ball to stay straight. If the table was dead level and the frozen ball just rolled along the cushion (not potted) the. That would be a foul as nothing has touched a cushion. However if the cue ball was a little away from the cushion then it is highly likely it will go into the same cushion after contacting the object ball and then that would be fine.
The other thing that could happen if the table is not great is that the object ball comes away from the cushion and then rolls back into it. This would also be legal as it has left the cushion before hitting it again.
@@PoolSchool This is wrong. Maybe this rule wasn't made clear in the revision that was available 5 months ago. I'll quote from revision 2c (May 2023). 6h Frozen balls - (1) An object ball is deemed frozen whilst touching a cushion. It is a standard foul if the cue ball initially contacts a frozen ball first and the shot does not result in:
(a) A ball being potted OR
(b) The cue ball contacting a cushion OR
(c) The frozen ball contacting a cushion attached to a different rail OR
(d) Any other object ball contacting a cushion, with which it was not
already in contact with, before the shot is played.
So in the last point of your comments' example, if the frozen ball comes away from the cushion and then rolls back into it, it is actually a standard foul. Also remember that if you play the frozen ball down the rail with enough speed to pot it and you miss, you will automatically hit the jaw of another rail which would make the shot legal.
All in all, if your cue ball and object ball are both frozen on the same rail, and you play the frozen object ball towards the corner (cue ball slightly moving away from rail and not touching another rail) and you play with insufficient speed meaning object ball doesn't reach opposing jaw, it is a standard foul, even if that said frozen object ball moved away from the cushion and touched that same cushion again because table was not level. See point (c)
@@francoispien Sorry yes you’re correct, my mistake. The ball has to hit a different cushion so rolling back into the same one wouldn’t count as a legal shot.
This might be a stupid question so I'm sorry if it is but I've just gotten my own pool table a 7ft supreme winner with no separate whit ball return. I'm wondering if it is in the rules to have a smaller cue ball or in competition is the cue ball the same 2" size? Most sets of balls automatically include a smaller cue ball.
The cue ball was, as you say, made smaller so that it worked with the separate ball return. Because the game is played up and down the country in pool
Halls and pubs that have the ball return system they use the smaller cue ball in competition as well. The smaller cue ball behaves quite differently to one of the same size so it would make things quite different switching from one to the other.
@@PoolSchool thanks for that, best to stay with the smaller one then. I do have both sizes and as you say it behaves very differently.
Hi, can you please explain what’s the rule if I’m on the last yellow and my opponent is on black, I took a shot on yellow, yellow is covering the pocket now but did not go in, my opponent takes a shot on black and the black stops in front of my yellow covering the same pocket, if I hit the yellow and only the black goes in, that’s a loss of frame as it’s a foul, if I hit the yellow with top spin and I pot the black and yellow goes in too, is the black ball re spotted? Thanks
No it’s still a loss of frame. You can’t pot the black in combination with one of your own balls. You can pot an opponents ball in combination with the black though as long as you hit the black first.
Thank you for the explanation
determining a deliberate foul will be difficult at times across all skill levels, not just the lower levels (which will be diabolical to ref at the best of times)
Maybe it should be ‘ball in hand anywhere on the table’ instead of loss of frame. Surely minor leagues could adopt this rule?
I had a two shots chance and I was left with one ball and the 8 ball, then I hit the first shot using the 8 ball which scored my remaining ball together with the 8 ball, but my remaining ball was the first one to go in. Was it a foul or I won? Kindly advise
It was a foul, you can’t pot the 8 ball in combination with your last ball. It can be in combination with an opponents ball but not your own.
I was just wondering if both players are on the black and a foul occurs, white ball potted or a total miss, what is the rule?
As long as the black isn’t potted as part of the foul then it is the same as any other foul, ball in hand anywhere on the table and one shot. If the black is potted and the cue ball goes in then it is loss of frame.
Can u tell me the fouls on the black ball and what the penalties are , (in off, missing black when its the object ball, sinking the black when u still have colours remaining,
Missing the black (not hitting it) - ball in hand
In off the black (but not potting the black) - Ball in hand
In off the black (black potted) - loss of frame
Potting the black with colour still remaining - loss of frame
Potting last colour and the black in combination - loss of frame
Potting black and opponents ball (as long as the cue ball hits the black first) - win the frame
Hopefully that covers most scenarios?
@@PoolSchool much appreciated , really enjoy your videos
Hi. Can u help me with a rule im not sure of. If im snookered & try to get out of it but i foul can the opponent pick the cueball up & place it anywhere on the table?
Yes they can. They have ball in hand anywhere on the table with one visit.
Ok thanks 👍
I am really confused. Is there another set of rules? Watched the videos and the league I played in most my life is a mix between the 2. We also had 2 shots, no carry (if you pot on first go). Really difficult to get used to 2 shot carry where I play now.
There are several sets of rules, Blackball rules, World Rules etc. This is a relatively new set of rules that the World Eightball Pool Federation (WEPF) the English Pool Association (EPA) have recently adopted. If you watch "Ultimate Pool" this is also what they play on there.
@@PoolSchool thanks for the reply, was worried we might have made some rules to suit the standard! Enjoy the informative videos 🙂
If the black ball is in a corner pocket and covered by your apponets balls and it's your shot and you are on the black what can you do
If it is impossible to hit the black legally then it is a stalemate. You ask the ref to confirm it is a stalemate and then it is a re-rack.
Wondering on deliberate fouls in IR as you commented it means loss of frame however if you play a combination shot & pot opponents ball but not your own it's just loss of turn, what makes this not a deliberate foul & just loss of turn? Surely it's a deliberate shot & a foul so why not loss of game?
It’s because it’s not a foul. Under this rule set it is legal and considered a tactical shot. You are sacrificing passing play to your opponent but it allows people to clear covered pockets and therefore keeps the game flowing.
Hi if my opponents ball is in the pocket can I skim of my ball and pot my opponents ball and take loss of turn foul
Yes. It’s a great way of clearing a covered pocket, especially if you leave them without a shot.
Is there an easy way to differentiate between a foul (ball in hand) and a loss of turn?
If you strike you own ball first and then your opponents ball drops, it is just a loss of turn. That’s pretty much it. The only other occasion is on an open table, if you fail to call a group when it’s not obvious.
In the last scenario, if you pot the 8 ball in combination with your own ball, do you lose the game?
Yes
So, off the break, a foul where the cueball is pocketed is ball in hand behind the baulk line for all rule sets. Where the cueball leaves the table, it is ball in hand anywhere. This is true for all rule sets?
Then after the break, a foul leads to playing where the balls lie or playing behind the baulk line (you have the choice) with two shots that carry for world rules, and two shots that don't for Black ball.
A foul in International rules however, after the break is one shot and ball in hand anywhere. Tell me if I have this right.
Almost!
On point 1, if the ball leaves the table in World rules it is ball in hand behind the baulk with two visits.
On point 2, in World rules the ball is played from where it lies unless you can't see both sides of one of your balls. If you can't then you can either nominate an oponents ball (to become one of yours) or move the cue ball behind the baulk line. If you can play one of your balls you can't "choose" to move behind the baulk line.
I don't have a huge knowledge of black ball rules I'm afraid.
When you break, if 2 balls of 1 color and 1 ball of the other color (stripes or solids) do you have to choose the higher ball choice
No the balls potted on the break are completely disregarded, it just means you continue. It is the ball you pot next (either colour) that decides your group.
If you miss the next shot does the opponent have the option to choose
Yes, the table remains open until on of you legally pots a ball to claim the colour.
A situation I played the other night, a decider game which me and a friend are still arguing over. Regarding covering a pocket - bottom corner pocket, 8 ball completely covered by 2 yellow balls tight coverage and 8 ball hanging right on the edge of pocket and it's red players shot. He needs to contact 8 ball first but he cannot access it, technically he doesn't have to play the shot and the game turns over to yellow player as a standard foul. Yellow player cannot find a way through without also potting the black. The game is essentially at a stale mate. What is stopping this game becoming a farce? I argued no rule set made the ending to this frame easy for either player.
In that situation if you can’t get to the black it means it is impossible to play a legal shot so therefore it’s a stalemate and a re-rack.
@@PoolSchool oh thanks for clarifying!
Hi Pool School,
I'm from South African and we've recently started playing the new International 8 Ball rules.
I'm hoping you can assist me with clarification on some of the rules please?
Scenario:
I have potted all of my object balls and I am now on the 8 ball. My opponent still has objects balls on the table.
On my shot, if I make contact with the 8 ball first and pot one of my opponents object balls, without the 8 ball dropping, is this is a standard foul or just a loss of turn?
Example: My opponent has a yellow covering the pocket. I play the 8 ball to pot his ball and stay in the jaws of the pocket, while playing safe from the other yellow balls.
That is a loss of turn shot, not a foul. As long as you contact the black first it’s a legal shot.
This was my experience too... What if the 8ball drops in after the opponent's ball playing the skill shot, is that a loss of frame?
No you win the frame. If you are on the black, as long as you hit it first it doesn’t matter if any of you opponents balls drop.
also 3:26 with these rules i would be able to just roll the yellow to touch the cussion and park next to the red covering the pocket. what would you do then?? Time wasting game that is.,
Why would you do that when you can just clear the pocket like in my example? It stops time wasting, that’s the whole point? It seem that regardless of what I say you don’t like these rules so just stay playing Blackball rules if that’s what you prefer? Everyone is entitled to play whatever they like.
I don’t think you are correct with the combination shot, you can pot your last colour and then the black, you can also pot the black then your last colour if you have a free table!
Sorry but that’s incorrect, it may be the case in other rules sets but not in international 8 ball rules.
Your on yellows, you deliberately hit a yellow onto a red and pot red. Your opponent is in now, but is snookered off his 2 remaining reds by 2 yellows. What is the ruling?
He plays from where the ball lies. It is not a foul and he is snookered. As long as you hit the yellow first it is a tactical shot.
what happens ifhe black ball leaves the table during the game
The black ball is re-spotted and it is a standard foul, so cue ball in hand.
A situation came up last night. Player 1 fouled, player 2 gets ball in hand. Player 2 plays the white from where it is instead of picking it up (no referee present). Some said this was a foul and loss of player 2's turn. Question is, is it compulsory to lift the cue ball if one has been awarded ball in hand. Can't find the answer in the rules. Thanks again for your hard work.
I can't find reference to it anyway either. However in a match with a referee, the ref would pick up the ball and hand it to you so it wouldn't be an issue. In a game between mates with no ref, then the fact that you are allowed to place the ball wherever you like (including on the spot it happens to have ended up in), common sense would say it's absolutely fine to just play it from where it lies if you want to.
@@PoolSchool my thoughts too. It would be nice to get a definitive answer though as this happened during trials without a ref and no one knew the answer but there were differing opinions.
It is actually covered in the rules. Not sure of the one but player is allowed to ask umpire to leave white ball where it lies if he feels he has a good shot from there.
Yeah your allowed to play from where it lays. Don't have to move it
What about white ball in off on 8
If the black remains on the table then it’s a standard foul. If the black is potted and the white goes in off it is loss of frame.
@@PoolSchool ta. Thanks for clearing that up.
I believe in ultimate pool if you pot your opponent's ball it is not just a loss of turn, it's ball in hand...an it would make more sense,otherwise you could just pot people's balls with your own, and not only you won't get penalized for it but you could gain a significant unfair advantage, by getting a snooker for instance
No it’s definitely just loss of turn. As long as you hit your colour first it is just loss of turn. And yes you are right you can use it to your advantage. It means that covering a pocket in an attempt to hamper your opponent is not that worthwhile because they can simply play their ball onto it to remove it, and possibly like you say, leave you in a snooker or awkward position in the process.
@@PoolSchool you are actually right...my mistake..unfair though
We’re you in eastenders a few years back
😂
Finally starting to adapt the correct rules to the game now they need to do is get the same weight Cue ball as the object ball and you guys will be in the game. Lol
that is crap rules. Blackball is best because of all this nuisance with blocking the pockets.
I don't understand your point? International 8 ball rules are ver much like Blackball rules in that repect. Covering a pocket has little value because it can be solved using either a combination shot or loss of turn shot, much like the skill shot in Blackball.
@@PoolSchool You can pot target ball and opponent's ball in one shot without fault. Eliminates "covering the pockets" and makes the game more dynamic, faster and exciting. All this "world rules" makes the game slow and not enjoyable for the observers.
@@365Condoms This is "International 8 ball rules" not "World Rules" and you can do exactly what you've just described?
@@PoolSchool I left out the main ting so you maybe will understand the reason I am having this discussion with you right now:
In blackball rules you can spot the white ball back in the baulk after illegally potting opponents ball.
This is designed precisely for these time-wasting professional faults you are "showing off" from around 3:00 time.
Y are u arguing with pool school? He did not make these rules. He is explaining it. If u dont like it, then dont play it.
What if I pot the black and the white goes jn do I still lose?
Yes
@Pool School good. I was told otherwise and thought that was tk stupid