Myth of the light weight adventure bike?︱Cross Training Adventure
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- www.crosstrainingenduro.com I've spent quite a few years trying out different bikes as a "do-everything" bike: a bike you can dirt ride AND adventure ride which i believe means bike under 150kg or 330lb dry. You inevitably face compromises, the trick is how much you want to compromise. This vid looks at my experimenting with the lightest enduro bikes and moving through to the solid reliable heavy plodders as a light adventure bike.
Adventure Oz CZcams channel: / secretgardenproject
HUSABERG FE570 2009-2012 (possibly the FE450 if no 570s available) 115kg, 50+hp at rear wheel. If you think you'll enjoy dirt riding then these can match any 450 dirt bike in gnarly stuff, but have smooth power and heaps of grunt to cruise on the highway for hours if needed. Pity they don't make them any more. :(
BETA RR480 / RS500 112kg, 50+hp at rear wheel. My next project! The beta thumpers have been around for five years now and are proving to be bulletproof engines with great longevity and quite a few guys have been using these for dual sport or adventure riding. the RS500 version in the USA is especially proving popular as it can be road registered in those states that don't like dirt bikes.
YAMAHA WR450: 115kg, close to 50hp rear wheel. A high performance enduro bike that comes fairly close to low maintenance and longevity of the Husabergs.... five speed box is limiting though for a light weight adventure bike.
JAPANESE 250 DUAL SPORTS BIKES: surprisingly quite a few guys are adventurizing 250s, power in the high 20s weight around 125kg. very popular in the USA for some reason, a lot of guys adv ride the TTR250 and similar Jap bikes.
DRZ400 around 125kg, 34 hp rear wheel. A popular light adv bike, very cheap to buy new and heaps of aftermarket parts and nearly indestructable.
HUSQVARNA TE610 136kg, not sure on hp but getting close to 50 at the rear wheel i think. Very grunty engines, perfect if you short shift as they don't go any faster if you rev past 7000, just make more noise. Husky could have gone a long way toward the perfect light weight adventure bike with some tweaks on this one.
KTM 690R: 139 to 145kg depending on the year model, around 70hp (!!!) An interesting bike, I hated it and sold it within three months and noted that quite a few riders feel the same way about them. yet a friend of mine got his at the same time and after spending a few thousand dollars extra on it says its his near perfect light weight adventure bike.
DR650 about 147 kg dry, 34 hp at rear wheel, closer to 40 derestricted. very capable offroad compared to the KLR, still good on the highway. heaps of aftermarket gear. A favourite for me as a reasonably light weight adventure bike despite lots of niggling little issues.
HONDA XL650 we don't get this in australia, boohoo. but a great alternative to the DR650, about 7kg lighter, less known issues, only slightly more expensive.
TWO BIKE OPTION
Personally I've settled on this now myself, I found the compromise too much with one bike doing it all, although the FE570 was the closest I got to the ideal light weight adventure bike.
Good luck with the hunt! Welcome to Cross Training Adventure, we are into all things dual sport and adventure on the east coast of Australia... with occasional detours to places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Romania and Canada. This is one of our three channels, there's also a Cross Training Trials channel, and a Cross Training Enduro channel. All three are equally dodgy. We are the 27th most watched dirt channel in Uzbekistan. We have won the polished turd award five years in a row. And we have a world record 25 class action lawsuits for inaccurate information. We think the whole motorbike scene is getting too commercial. So called dual sport riding reviews are just glossy ads nowadays. Everyone is trying to sell you stuff you don't need, convince you to buy the latest model with anodized coffee cup holders for your trips to the coffee shop. Of course if you are cashed up and into bling, go for it. All we are saying is there's also the budget option for adventure riding. And it won't hold you back. Why? We reckon it's 80% the rider and 20% the bike. So the Cross Training Adventure focus is just get out there and have fun on two wheels. Instead of obsessing over the latest blinged out Beemer, which tyres to fit or spending a fortune on your suspension or billet alloy gas cap. So most of our adventure ridingvids will feature the much loved bush pig, the Suzuki DR650. And we've done a 10 part series on how to unleash the mighty beast that lurks within.
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About time there's been a thoughtful video on adventure bikes. It's a huge relief to get to watch something new, different from both the people who take things too seriously, and the people who have no informational sustenance in their videos. Thanks! You have a new subscriber. (:
Ahh man I miss your old 'berg. Very good thoughts here, everybody in the market for an adventure or dual sport bike should watch! What you said at the end was spot on!
+eveRide ADV it must be dementia ty, i'll have to watch it and see what i said lol..... ah that's right. wouldn't that be sweet? a DRZ/RMZ hybrid? a KTM 500 adventure? we can but dream!
+ADVENTURE OZ a drz/rmz hybrid would be awesome if one was to ever come out it would give me some serious thoughts on selling the drz to upgrade.
you may want to have a look at the swm rs 650r I think it's got the same or similar engine to the husqvarna 610.
+MARK5MAN7170 it does look great, for some reason i thought they were still a long way off being available....
+ADVENTURE OZ Mate i just rode with has the XR650 with cr500 rear shock body and front forks off a crf450 ,custom billet clamps with under bar damper, spent shit loads on it , some dude in US is just about to release a E start kit , Damn only took 20 years ,,, bit late for that ,,
+ADVENTURE OZ It's your old mate, tosgem, stalking you here but hopefully not disclaimer-worth drivel on this occasion!
There are several SWM 650's listed on bikesales.com.au new from dealers, and there are owners from Europe posting vids on youtube, so I assume they are available. I haven't seen any in the flesh yet though.
IMHO there hasn't been so much bike for so little money in a long time, it's almost cheating.
They are a Chinese-owned company that bought the old Husqvarna factory when BMW hocked it off, thinking it wise to put the old 690 competitor, the TE630 and SM630, out to pasture and replace it with their own (cheaper, heavier, GS-inspired) Terra 650.
The SWM650R and 650S are Husqvarna TE630's and SM630's. Exactly the same, still made in Italy, all the TE630 parts and aftermarket mods are interchangeable.
I have no affiliation with them but I sound like a salesman just because I think they represent outstanding value, obviously the Chinese have no r&d costs to recoup, they just bought the factory and tooling (for a cheap price I presume), moved the production of the plastics to China, and are churning out circa 2012 Husqvarna's. (They're also doing the 500 soon, which is the old TE/SMR511).
If I were in the market for a big dual sport or adventure bike right now it's definitely what I'd get. 153kg wet, 6 speed, fuel injected, about 58hp stock. They're a few hp down and a few kg up on the 690 Enduro, but what else compares to that which is currently available? And for the price of a DRZ400E?? They're listed at $8.9k - $9.5k brand new in Aus. The DRZ400SM is $10k new, you'd be mad to buy one over the 650S.
this was really well done! I ended up leaving my bmw f800gsa at home for ride from the USA to South America because when I was honest with myself it was tooooooooo big and too expensive to walk away from if needed...now I ride the bush pig...DR650 and you know what...its not that bad! (most of the time)
+1 for the Husky TE610. I got one of these after watching this video, and it's a bloody bomproof ripper of a do-it-all bike. I can keep up (kinda) with the enduro boys on the harder stuff, and still do a bit of touring/adv riding.
Love my DRZ400 for both dirt and road...best thing ive ever bought
I ran a Husaberg FE501 2013 model with a CPW oil cooler. No fancy cush drive hub required. Used it for everything.14,500 hard kms and the engine was very healthy. Now using the Husky FE501 2016 model set up the same. 16.5L Safari tank. Force radiator guards. Bash plate.Ergo hand guards. Dri Rider tank bag. Pirelli Scorpion Rally tyres with 4mm UHD tubes. Wheels balanced...a must for high speeds. CPW oil cooler that carries an extra 400ML of oil. 15:50 gearing. I get over 450 kms from the 16.5L Safari tank. It is the best performing dirt bike available and also good on the bitumen. You could fit a comfy seat but I stand a lot. Roy Kunda from Cape York Adventures has had two 500 Husabergs (KTM 500 engine) and put 35,000 kms on them. Never touched the engine apart from regular services and air cleaner service. The KTM 500 engine is a gem....could not settle for anything less.The KTM 500 EXC, or Husaberg 500, or Husky 500, have the best power to weight ratio available.If you want performance nothing else comes close.
I still ride my ktm520 02 model. It cost a but load to repair n service n bring a tear to my eye every time i open my wallet. But i still smile because it still runs like the day i brought it n has enough balls to get me into trouble n back out again. Gotta love it. Keep the vids comin
I ride an 89 Yamaha XT 600. It has a strong frame at the back for panniers, a steel tank which is great for my magnetic tank bag and eagle screens Australia has many screens available for it (although I prefer to feel the wind in my hair or lack of hair I should say). Unfortunately there aren't many of the old beasts around any more however I find it the best of both worlds. It is a little heavy however for a big bloke like me its just fine.
Sold my T7 and bought a DRZ which I’m ‘adventurizing’. Best thing I’ve ever done. Cliché, but light is in fact… right!
Good to hear, Johannes! What sort of mods.... seat, tank, luggage?
@@crosstrainingadventure It came with a really cool rally tower made in Belgium, and a much bigger tank. All I’ve done is gearing it down and adding MX tires. After spending way too much money on upgrading the T7 I have a much more cost oriented approach. Not gonna add too much unless its really needed. The DRZ is a fine bike in stock form. Someone very clever once said something like «its not the bike, its you, you muppet» ;)
Same here, I went crazy on my last DR650 but just limiting myself to $2000 max on my current one. That tower sounds great!
@@crosstrainingadventure The less money you spend on upgrades the more you have for fuel and travel 🙂 The DR650 is the ultimate machine in my eyes, it had everything I would want in an adventure bike. Good luck with it!
I've toured 2up on stockish DR650s. Jeff at Procycle shaved one down to 320lb curb. A 790 kit, hot cam, sorted carb, comfort mods, a big tank, and sorted suspension can make such an affordable bike AWESOME for riding the world. Do the "fixes" and swap in a billet wide-ratio gearset if you're worried about reliability.
Wow. 145kg! This is our DR650 weight reduction vid: czcams.com/video/h6fl-GWdURk/video.html We found it easy to get halfway to that figure with just taking things off the bike and changing the exhaust. But Jeff must have used some special tricks to nail 145kg!
Thenks for the great video! I love this conceps and am pretty excited to see how the new CRF250L Rally, V-Strom 250 and 310GS do - although it looks like the Honda is the only one of the 3 we have confirmed for Aus..
After spending a month trying to find that do it all bike that does not exist, you just summed that up perfectly.
CCM GP450?
Not one of the big 4 but seems to use top quality parts and a rock solid power unit.
CCM GP 450 has a 20l tank and weighs about 128kg dry and then there is the AJP PR7 due out soon with 17l tank with 600cc SWM engine both designed for lightweight adventure market.
Nice video. Not too long, very informative, some great footage of the bikes in action - can't really ask for more! Fair play for this - went down perfectly with my mug of builders tea! ;)
Awesome insight. The 2018 Kato690 was another bike of interest to me. Certainly for power to weight it has a competitive and true dual sport capability (I don't do long distance adventure rides as I have a crook lower back and thus have a fully kitted out 105 Landcruiser for that stuff). I personally would be inclined to put a 19" front wheel on with Michelin Anakee Wild tyres, exhaust and tune, a small screen and leave it as that. Super fun dualsport, allterrain bike suitable for the twisty range I live up on.
I agree with you on the whole pick. My favourite dirt bike was always the Husaberg FE570. So light and super powerful. I have owned a DRZ400E with FMF powerbomb and JD Jetkit which went "okay" after that. But still lacked low end torque and with the overall weight of the bike, it was no real amazement, having to wring its neck everywhere I went. The only way to improve it would be the stroker crank and bigbore kit to bring it up to 485cc and around 60RWHP. But still will be lacking that 6th gear.
The DR650 is the most popular bike I see up in the NT and northern WA. I have seen some real loaded up ones with spare tyres tied on the back and all. Guys riding from Alice to Darwin etc. Thanks for your insight again.
UPDATE ON NEW LIGHT WEIGHT ADVENTURE MODELS!
This video is quite old now and some new contenders have popped up. New vid here: czcams.com/video/lsorI76PBYc/video.html
CCM GP450: Probably the best contender but mainly available in the UK. Only 125 kg, a fairing, and it has a 20 litre tank. And next...
Honda CRF450L: Only 131kg dry, this dual sport bike is a great platform for adventure conversion as it's a detuned version of the big bore enduro bike.
Honda CRF250L Adventure: another Honda offering, at 144 kg wet and ready to go. Great if you like that rally look, and will probably do well in the USA market where 250s are popular as adventure bikes.
KTM 390 Adventure: Unfortunately it's heavy at 157 kg. And has cast wheels, ugh. It's based on the 390 Duke road bike made in India.
SWM RS650R: A working of the old Husky TE630 and only 144 kg. Unfortunately SWM have beefed it up into a heavier new model the Superdual 650 which is 165 kg. But these bikes are very cheap and long-term reviews indicate they are very solid units.
AJP PR7: Built in Portugal, it weighs in at 166 kg fueled up and ready to go. It also uses a reworked version of the old Husky TE630 engine.
Some manufacturers are bringing out 300cc models but unfortunately they weigh far too much to fit our criteria in this vid. If you are interested though, check out the Kawasaki Versys, Suzukie V-Strom 250, Royal Enfield Himilayan and the BMW 310GS.
Would you say the big Berg is still a serious contender for the shorter trips after all this time?
CRF450L is a great bike
KTM 790? I've ridden with some guys who can really put them to work offroad.
CCM GP450 has just been released on the Australian market. Yet to be thoroughly tested in really tough terrain, it would seem to tick most of the boxes you mention at the end of your video.
I read a great quote in another post: “ there is no unicorn”. But I agree with your closing observation that there gap in mid size adv bikes. Big tank, big oil and strong rear subframe.
I've been fascinated with this for years now, Michael. There are appears to be a real demand for this sort of bike. Are the manufacturers blind to this? Or in reality would it simply not sell well and their marketing departments have done their research and know what they are doing?
I always had 2 strokes and was a fan, then rode a XR250 with the dual carbs. Late 80s I believe and it stuck to the trails and was easy to ride through rough terrain. I was 11 or 12 at the times. And with the 6spd it had no problem ripping at 80mph down the road.
nice vid fella… makes me wanna go through all your old vids with the husaberg now… bugger, another bloody youtube rabbithole… i'll never get any work done on the DR at this rate!
+evo moto you need to work on your DR, evo? surely you just mean put fuel in it? :)
5:19
Honda made the NX650 back in the late 80s and it's exactly what you described there. Big 650, large front ferring with windsheild, light weight and low seat height of 34 inches, geared for the street but has good power offroad. My father has one with 25,000 miles and it's bulletproof.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NX650_Dominator
Great vids and awesome disclaimers,....as usual! Keep up the good work you duffer blokes!
I was lucky enough to do a ride on a FE570 when i did my Aus trip. It was incredible. Especially after being used to my big red pig xr650l back in the states. I love the xr tho. Its the apocalypse third world country duelsport. Dr is similar.
CCM 450 try get your hand on one of these for a test ride would love to get your thoughts on them…
We need a new class of bike, Tri-Purpose bike for dirt, pavement and ADV riding. Still waiting for a ~150 kg bike. The DRZ400S is a great platform, Suzuki need to modernize it with 6 spd and FI, use a bit more lighter material. A sub 300 lbs 450cc DRZ400/CRF450L/WR450R would be ideal.
yes, yes, yes and yes. i'm still surprised a major manufacturer hasn't tried a model like this. the japanese are far too risk-averse to any major model changes, sadly. my dream? they bring back the old husaberg FE570, detuned a little and bigger oil capacity. comfy seat. a small fairing. beefed up rear subframe and a rear rack. decent 16L tank. it would have to sell like hot cakes.
DR Dan
rumor has it yamaha is working on the next 700cc tenere. www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/yamaha-tenere-700-xt700z-prototype/
Personally i still prefer something in the 400-500cc range and under 150 kg
DR Dan you're welcome. I totally agree with your take for a light weight 400-600 cc ADV bike. A air cooled version would allow room for a bigger tank and 1 less thing (coolant) to worry about on a long trip. It seem ADV mean 80% highway and 20% dirt these days.
DR Dan Suzuki has 2 great platform bikes, DRZ400 and the DR650 but both are overdue for some basis amenities like FI, 6 spd and Suzuki can sell them for another 15 years. I'm more of a dual sport fan instead of a ADV fan. I won't be getting the XT700Z
Look at the 2017 Suzuki 200 van van, it got FI
.www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/RV200/2017/RV200.aspx
Beta 480
Hey, here in South America, Uruguay, we don`t have many options. Lightweight bikes it`s all we ride, in most of cases. Everybody wants to have the dream bike, but for me the whole idea is to be out there, ride a lot, and have fun. and my Honda xr150l is doing it for me. And i didn`t have to rob a bank to get it. And that`s not all, it has an autonomy of 280 kms with only 12 liters of gas. I think the 250`s are perfect, with 20 hp you are able to do everything. Thanks for this channel, it became my guide of adventure motorcycling.
+Pablo Kenner almost anything with two wheels can be your passport to adventure, hey pablo? too many guys get hung up on it must have this much power, or luggage carrying, or heated grips etc.
Really like where you're going with this, and judging by the other comments, many of us are on the same sheet of music. Wish the manufacturers were listening in! I like the idea of you being in on the review committee for a new version of the DR. Regarding the manufacturers - they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him fish!"
+Allen Huling it's true allen, this has been a very common discussion on adventure forums and i'm convinced there's a big demand out there but for some reason manufacturers aren't treading this path yet.
The British CCM 450gps base variant has recently been reduced in price by about £500 GB., and 20 litre fuel capacity in its three tanks -yes, three- plus a forged aluminium frame. However that frame isn't a perimeter design and so doesn't go under the engine but it does have massive ground clearance. A clever aspect of the CCM system is that it can be converted into a supermotard in about half an hour. In essence, it is a damn good, long distance, soft-roader.
WR250R + air box opened up + AIS and Servo Removed + FMF Q4 exhaust + FMF Megabomb header + Big Bore Kit + PC + dyno Tune + 3 gal IMS tank + 47 tooth or bigger rear sprocket + Scorpion MT21 front tire + Dunlop D707 Rear tire + Suspension upgraded +Flat land racing Skid plate and Radiator Guard + Seat Concepts Seat = Lightweight Low Maintenance Swiss Army Knife Dual Sport Motorcycle
+CycleCruza 10/10 description.
All of which may become moot when KTM brings out the 390 adventure. ;-) But you are correct. Some would argue that you don't have to do all of that with the WR250R, just fix the harsh rebound on the rear shock, put on the 4+ gallon tank, skid plate and go. Likewise, if you want to save a grand or two, do the same thing to the Honda CRF250L.
Ktm's are a hit and miss with reliability issues, unless you're rich, the WR250R is best bet. My local Ktm dealer doesn't even offer a extended warranty option for them (red flag).
I really like the wr250r and am looking at the ktm 500 exc which is somehow lighter, but is more expensive. The suzuki drz400 is too outdated for me lol
Cream Cheese Bagel Unless you have plenty of money to spend for the maintenance of a EXC I'd stick with the WR. Granted the WR isn't as good off road but are you really going to take full advantage of a EXC in the dirt? Plus the reliability of the WR is top notch.
I love my 690, didn't fail me so far. May the power be with me ;)
I have been looking at making a DR-Z400 into a light weight adventure bike for some time now. I'm glad it made it to your list. Thanks for the awesome video man. Keep up the great work.
+ThisLifeRiding great old workhorses.... i'd love to see suzuki bore and stroke it to a 500 but just for extra grunt, no extra top end so the gearbox could remain as is. then slap on the RMZ suspension and watch sales go through the roof.
+ADVENTURE OZ
Hmm, now that's work considering. Thanks man.
+ThisLifeRiding i haven't heard of a stroking kit, and the big bore kit only goes to 440cc. i rode one once and couldn't really tell any difference with the extra 40cc. :(
+ADVENTURE OZ
Yea, I don't think I would want to big bore it anyway. I like the idea of bumping up the suspension though. Im pretty short so I think I might try a lowered seat as well. Thanks for the help.
The DRZ 400 has such potential. Add a 6th gear and continue the sales. Sure there are a few niggles such as loctite fixes needed to inner bolts but on the whole it's an incredible bike - sales must have been massive for the engine unit alone because it was used in quads and other manufacturers machines (CCM for example).
I have a CCM 404 and what a machine it is. Yes the engine is lacking but it's still good. CCM literally put every best part they could when making my bike. WP shocks for example.
Suzuki could do something awesome if they can be bothered: Hassling Suzuki team members at bike shows get's no reply!
I bought a WR250R not very long ago with the intention of 50/50 riding. It soon became 95% Trail and 5% street. Although the WR is very tough, I felt the outside items were to fragile (Turn Signals, Handle Bars, even the Speedo). I've broken all of these. I ride in Northern Colorado with large rocks and lots of scree. I've since pretty much converted it to a strictly MX, Trail Bike. I was forced to buy a dedicated Street Bike, poor me :).
that was very enjoyable to watch, keep making them
Have you looked at the new Husqvarna 701? Lots of aftermarket and gaining allot of popularity. Not sure if it meets your weight allowance but it's a beautiful bike also.
Great overall rundown, thanks for the time figuring it out.
All Suzuki would have to do is update the DR's gear box with a wide ratio 6 banger and refine the suspension, give it fuel injection and a proper gauge cluster. No more KLR's would be sold.
want that to happen? be the design engineer of that company bro ;)
DR already cruises at 80mph easily with stock gearing,you may be turning the throttle the wrong way or not far enough. Cogent shock baby,its whats for dinner.
@@bradsanders6954 that's the next job with my DR650rs, tuning the carb
But it would still be a relative dog loaded and with gear...btw no more KLRS OR DRs (or XRs) will be sold ....in US or europe...pretty sure. Have to go KTM if one wants modern versions of these old relics...
I think i heard something about how they basically cant change the bike because it oasses emissions laws only becauae its grandfathered in or something.
It's funny, it's kind of an open ended question, I think back when I was riding across Africa in 2010 and my fellow kiwi companions and I sat round the camp fire almost every night trying to hone down the perfect overland bike... or the perfect adventure bike... or the perfect going to work bike. But honestly, it was more emphasis on the former overland bike. Our sum conclusion was a lazy V-twin like the Honda Transalp, just a damn sight lighter and a bunch more ground clearance. Heh! :D I love your narration buddy! Keep up the good work!
+Neil's in... that's a whole other category hey neil... i set that arbitrary under 150kg dry for a bike you could do some easy dirt riding with, but once you look at the 150kg to 180kg there are heaps of contenders that get a lot closer to the adventure ideal. :D
Absolutely, that's why I was mentioning Overland / Adventure / Commuter. (three categories)
Overland nowadays around the world is mostly tar, and very few dirt roads.
Adventure well that's your forté man! ;)
Keep in mind from the UK stand point lane filtering is a must. :) Personally, I think a Dual Sport makes a better commuter for heavy traffic than a road bike, higher riding position with more visibility, more torque to pull away at the lights, better steering circle for winding between cars.
I really liked how you categorized it!
Although god knows why I'm currently doing >25,000km on a 250 :P
Couldn't agree more. Now riding CRF250L(and love the little fella with yoshimura pipe). Have had F800GS and SXC625. WAITING, for a quality 350-500 dedicated dual sport, FI, Steel valves, large oil capacity, six speed, not too high, top end suspension, wide pegs, softish seat and frame set up to take bolt on extras / racks etc. Definitely a market segment to be exploited.
AJP PR7 is coming
Great video mate , having this problem right now my self have xt660r as it's heavy and was thinking of the 690 or the wr450 , but your spot on the company that comes up with that perfect balance will clean up
+darren fitzpatrick fingers crossed that one of them does darren :)
I love my 92 DR350. It's such a simple and reliable dual sport.
Bro, I just picked up a 94 DR350, and I feel the same way you do. Those race and semi race bikes are too tall and skinny for me to get comfortable on.
I think if Yamaha made a 350, 400, or 450 version of the WR250R (the WR450F is too high strung to count) it would be a great platform for a light weight adventure bike.
Yep
I had the same problem with the KLX250s, great lightweight platform but lacking in the engine. It has the Ninja 250 street bike engine, if I'm remembering correctly. I second the Parallel twin, but would it feel light enough? We need a 500 single bore power in a 250 chassis.
Have just bought a secondhand 701 after totalling my Ducati. Wanted something smaller like an excf 350 but fell in love with the Husky when I tested it. Has had some small maintenance issues and slightly heavy but i'm planning to put cheap offroad tyres on. Also have a Big Boy tsr250 which is both a great city and offroad bike.
I have one bike at each end of the size spectrum, the BMW R1150GS Adventure and the Yamaha TW200. I tour long distance with the BMW and soon will be riding the slow but light TW200 on single trail. I couldn't resist getting the TW200 because it's small and cute and can handle places that quads fear to tread.
I've been interested in the super tenere for awhile. Wish I knew someone with one.
Around 400cc to 450 , is the perfect trail bike in my mind.
250 doesn't have enough power. And 650 is too heavy for single track in hot climates.
400 tuned to wheelie machine. I'd ride it across the world. No myth.
You are right on one count and sorta kinda right on the other. 650 is out for extreme dirt riding for several reasons. Where I sorta kinda agree is on the 250cc.. A 250cc can be a real beast if its strictly off road. The older 2 stroke bikes just explode with power when you twist the throttle. The detuned or Chinese bikes in 250 ( actually 229cc ) run around 15hp.. Need I say more ?
Oh wow... This video...
My thoughts exactly. I would love a small adventure bike for multi-day trips that's also light enough to lift out in the woods when I eventually drop it. I decided on the Honda CRF250L here in the US. With soft luggage it's okay for longer distance trips, but I wish it had some more power as I can barely go the speed limit.
+Justin Tuttle i think the demand is there justin, but none of the manufacturers have really stepped up to the plate yet although some bikes are looking very good e.g. that CCM 450....
Recently purchased a 2010 FE570 for this purpose, seems to me to be the perfect compromise though I'll need to look into that counter shaft thing :/ love the motor! and 252 lbs. dry which isn't horrible. Best part is the 70 degree orientation of the motor lends itself to a light riding feel. Just sux when you have to pick it up
DR350 is the perfect middle ground
6 speed
Air-cooled so lighter weight and less maintenance
Good suspension on all models
Great suspension on my 99 model
Strong frames
Durable engines
Fi?
@@no_special_person it's carby. The 350 is so old now, parts availability has come into question.
What we are all looking for is a WR450R. Sadly, Yamaha won't make it for some reason.
+Zach A who knows why... how hard could it be?
+Zach A they would sell like hot cakes too
+TDubsKid I was told the emissions are miles off would really change the bike and add cost
They would need to come up with a new engine. The current 450 is a race bike engine with race bike engine maintenance requirements.
Joe M well they did with the 250
Still riding my cush hub, safari tank, seatconcepts seat, aftermarket exhaust, gpr stabilised FE570 2012. It's just too good to let go of! I only wish I could get the subframe tank and then have the safari as a quick disconnect for long tours...wouldn't consider anything else other than maybe a sub 120kg twin. But the new EFI 2smokes are looking great as a stablemate ;)
I liked the ole 1978 Yamaha XT500 I used to have . Plenty of speed on road , plenty of grunt off road .
I'm quiet happy with my old Yamaha Xt.
I have one too, but its used as a farm bike
i've just bought a bike, used to ride in my teen and 20s. Now I'm almost 50, I bought an old used XR650, and am currently loving every bloody second of it.
Love your videos and personality, subbed, and deep diving the content.
Cheers from Canada!
Welcome back, Dale. Plenty of us returning after a a break of several decades. 😊
I so agree with what you said at the end there. I really want an adventure bike around the 450-500cc mark, i cant believe none of the manufacturers have done this.
250 to slow, 690 a little to big. I just want somthing like you said, out of the box and not have to pay another x amount of money getting it adventure worthy.
let keep fingers crossed.
Although the new yamaha t7 concept may be 700cc, i sure does look light, and man it looks sexy!!
spot on review, another one to consider is the husky 650 terra just bought one, not rode it yet, and the xt600e, I have one which is adventure spec, lots of aftermarket bits, low on power but bullet proof..
+Laurie Hughes nice looking bike the terra and read plenty of great reviews but unfortunately the heavy rotax engine put it well above the arbitrary weight limit we set. :(
The beta is awesome but realitiscaly I'm not going to be changing oils every other day on a multi day trip.
What’s the luggage set up on the FE570 and WR450? Cheers
I owned a Honda XLX350R 1987.... it was very fun....
now I have a Honda 2018 CB500F.... not even half of the FUN I had riding my XLX350...
Loving my CRF300L Rally. Excellent fuel range, light enough to toss around in the woods, and can top out at 90mph even with my thicc 6'3" 260lb self on the back. YSS adjustable cartridges and a 550 ECU will make it perfect. Aftermarket is coming in strong for it as well.
Loving mine too, not lightweight for the real gnarly stuff but pretty capable as a trail bike and for 250-300 mile day road rides and carrying camping gear it's ok, seems to drop well too, so far. You'd be pretty uncomfortable doing such distances on the smaller lighter bikes but every bike has compromises if you want it to multi-task.
I was one of those die-hard "weight is everything" type of guys, and I was a proud owner of a Husa 570 myself. But at some point I noted that I was getting crazy spending too much time on the tarmac to take me to the next frontier of trails versus enjoying the lightweight brute in the trails themselves.
I recently got myself a Tiger 800 XCx (the newer models) and it's been an absolute blast... I can do an impressive amount of technical trails, and when riding on the road or fast fireroads, it's the best bike I've seen (including my past KTM 990 experience). So now I'm a big advocate of "get used to the higher weight, it will be worth it once you get the hand of it". See some of my videos in my channel for some examples... czcams.com/video/w3ovyz8cvmc/video.html
2018 Africa Twin Adventure Sport here. Yeah it's heavy, but very good on the highways and extremely capable off-road considering the weight. I have a DR-Z400S as well, but I find the Africa Twin to be more fun overall. Much more low-end grunt and 10x more comfortable.
Depending on the type of riding sometimes a heavy bike can feel less tiresome to ride because it feel more stable and not so "nervous". I only go short rides so I did go for a 2019 KTM 500 EXC F as it feels as light as a 250 2 stroke but with more and easier to control power for someone who have not ridden 2 strokes in many years :) I used to have a WR450 and even that bike I felt was to heavy for me for my kind of riding.
Exactly the point ....what OVERALL gives the most enjoyment per hour riding long distances (key "long distances")....That is what drives the current "adventure" market I'd say ....It's the same reason pavement only distance touring gravitated to really large motorcycles ...I think we are collectively still sorting out what is the ultimate best for the individual and his/her "adventures" ....shame we can't have it all but it is true you can not ...not yet anyway. And for guys that are staunchly opposed to anything heavy...anything with more than one cylinder? All I can say to them is don't shatter that myth by riding a big bike on a long tour that has a lot of smoothish improved road ...cause once you do? I beleive you'll be throwing rocks at your dual sport.next time you contemplate another long route stuck with THAT while your buddies are ear to ear grins ...but ignorance can be bliss ...and I mean you WILL be the one laughing when it the road surface turns to shit ....they'll all trade with you in a heartbeat at that point....especially if they have dropped it a few times and are getting too damn tired to pick it up one more time (been there done THAT!)
Pretty cool video man. Watching all these dual sport / adventure bikes I almost regret having bought a bmw r1200 gs :D
The Crf450L is my lightweight adventure bike. With a few mods you have an extremely capable reliable and comfortable package. My KTM mates love it as it’s lower, smoother, and not race oriented
Do you stick to the recommended oil change intervals, Paul? I know some guys have been getting an oil analysis and have been at least doubling the mileage for dual sport riding.
@@crosstrainingadventure If I’m riding hard I’ll change the oil like clockwork but for lighter trail work there seems to be no need to stick religiously to the recommended intervals.
25-40kW( 40 HP - 60HP) is compromise to higway and between gravel roads for adventure bike enigne.
wr450 maybe
What about the ktm 640 adv? Yes, it is a bit Big but the whole package is amazing. proper suspension, kickstart, massive fueltank, ground clearance, fairing for the highway and light enough to handle or pick up..
downside: expensive and High maintenance
I had a ktm 640 lc4e and the bad part was you needed to be 6'6" to be flat footed at a stoplight. At 6' I was on my toes at the light and with the bike being so tall I reached down to check my chain tension and just fell over like a tree at the light.
High maintenance confirmed
The evolution of the 640 is the 2019 690 the latest iteration of the LC4...no? Supposedly they have made it ultra reliable ironed out all the wrinkles and even lowered it some via a bit less suspension travel ...I am tempted to test ride...
@@dougiequick1 The 690 piston is ultra thin for higher faster revs
BMW G650X Challenge is a great example of this, the tanks maybe a little small. I get about 250km a tank. The Air Suspension is great and the on the go adjustability is a real benefit.
Proud owner of XR650R exactly what you're lookin for... It's under 150kg plenty of power undestructable engine. Super simple bike. Also the KTM 640 Adventure is a great all purpose bike
2:53 And thus begs the question...
"How do you let someone know that your hotcakes are selling well?"
Good video duder!
Check out the Kawasaki Versys-x 300. I think it is my new goal to save up for.
The ninja engine is too high revving and low on torque for offroad.
I'll buy one when it is made . Not sure what to get next . I don't have a motorcycle and I do want an enduro for adventures but I just rode a waverunner for the first time and the smile is still on my face . I think I could live on one . Can't believe I waited this long to try one , most awesome fun ever . And I have ridden quads but don't own one of those either . I think I need to save another 10 G and flip a coin . God bless and safe travels .
Hardworking American not taking either onto single track.
@@BillyTheKidder
Well update , bought a 2019 Suzuki DR650 and finish day 2 on the rider safety course in 12 hours . Passed the written test and hopefully go to DMV and get my M1 next week . Friggin stoked , can't wait to learn up and get adventuring .
I dual sported an 2001 Honda XR 400 and it is the most reliable bike I have driven yet. It has decent power, weight is OK and because it is air cooled it does not break when dropped.
Another big bonus is it has a very large oil reservoir.
Negatives are the 5 gear box, man I wished it had a sixth, it is not oil burner, but it does use some oil, (always has) and it is a bit taller than most bikes (a good inch and a half on the DR 400). I'm 5'11" and it is just a bit tall for me in the tight rocky trails.
I have been driving dual sport since my first bike in 1987 (an XR 200 with head lights). I have liked the old Yamaha XT's from 225 - 550's too. They all were a bit under-powered as well, but ran forever.
no school like the old school, greg :)
Hi Baz, Im looking forward to seeing the AJP PR7 when it arrives.
+dazza421970 me too dazza, hoping to score a test ride at the very least. it's probably a tad heavy for our adventure rides, the current DR650 is working out very nicely but we do some pretty rugged tracks and light weight becomes a priority.
+ADVENTURE OZ I agree, my KTM 640 Adv feels top heavy when full of fuel. Not too bad when half full.
+dazza421970 The PR7 is supposed to be in that 350 lb range, the same as most of the others on the drawing board. The bad news/ good news is that it "only" carries 17 liters of fuel, but it carries it under the seat.
+Joe M Hi Joe, the 17 litre may be a deal breaker for me as I currently own a KTM 640 Adv and withs its 28 litre tank I get around 500 kays to the tank. My KTM 1190 Adv gets around 400 kays to the 23 litre tank.
+dazza421970 Yeah, the CCM has a 20 liter tank. Of course, the upside is that the FI motor on the PR7 and the SWM Super Dual will likely be more economical than the one on he 640. I also suspect that since these bikes are among with bigger asks to being with, someone will make an upgraded one. The PR7 has the "low mount" rally style exhaust, so you know that you probably have room for more fuel somewhere.
Ahh the agony ...I want to ride in comfort interstate highway ....AND I want something fun to ride on a rough dirt road ...you literally can not have both sorry to say ...hey maybe the thing to do is put a nimble dual sport on the back of a camper van! Even have a club where each member has something like that! Travel the interstate in real comfort! Bring along the luxury of a warm dry home base to sleep in ...put the wagons in a circle at night and in the morning mount the steeds for a full day of exploration! Think about THAT for having it all on adventures! I know this will be sacrilege to the iron butts ...but to me? It just ads to the possibilities! Anyone know of such groups doing such as this? I can see guys getting carried away with it and bringing their gal along and maybe multiple bikes too like in a toy box motorhome ....some AWESOME multi point trips spanning weeks COULD be planned! Even a continuous one that just keeps going! People joining up from various states and people heading home to fit their schedule! Just decide when you want to link up and make the arrangement to meet at the next rendezvous! I just thought of this and the more I think the more awesome it sounds! I mean someone COULD of course iron butt it and camp in a tent if the rendezvous point allowed for it ...but the ideal rig would be a camper van size or mini motorhome....or even a pick up with a shell or an suv even...whatever works...I love it! No behemoth 160hp adventure bike needed to travel interstate! Just whatever works best on fire roads/back dirt roads and some trails ....would include occasional bike onl overnights too of course...where it was all day ride to get to 2 wheel destination, make camp and head back to the wagons in the morning
Sure if you're made of money and don't like roughing it. I'm not, and I do. What about me?
That sound awesome, then you could take something like a TW 200 and not have to ride a 500+ pound bike in the dirt.
I have a 2019 KTM 500 EXC F and have been thinking a old camper with room for bike would have been perfect ;)
All I know is when I was a kid I had a late 1970s Yamaha two stroke 100cc enduro. And it hardly weighed anything. And it was great. A friend has a DR200 and it's still much bigger and heavier in the dirt than that Yahama, you could literally do anything you wanted with the yamaha, ride as fast as it would go and still get away with it most of the time because you could manhandle the heck out of it. Lighter is a lot more fun in the dirt. However, on the street, small is terrifying, but still fun in a terrifying way.
When I was young I raced 250mx bikes and did not even own a ramp ...I just picked it up into my Chevy pickup bed via fork leg and front wheel sort of diagonally with the front wheel cocked...then stepped around behind and grabbed it by the subframe from rear and shoved her the rest of the way in it self steering itself via the angle etc ..... although honestly typically another racer would pitch it ...but did do it plenty of times alone. I also could push start my pick up truck if the battery was dead...ahh the strength and vigor of youth... No sweat even
So what was the myth?
Take a look at AJP PR7
I think the CCM GP450 or the AJP PR7 is exactly what the world needs!
That bike is here now! I just found these older husky Italian built motorcycles the other day! SWM Swm Superdual X - is a 600cc 317lbs adventure bike making 53hp epa choked hp btw! Best part is it only costs $9k! SWM also makes a sexy enduro! SWM RS 500 R- 501cc 255lbs making 51 hp! Priced at $7.7k! I've been hunting on the market, these bikes hit that sweet spot of hp and weight vs all the others and they don't cost $11k+! Both bikes come with adjustable suspension, liquid cooled, and fuel injected. You can opt for a single high flowing muffler to lose 8.8lbs, and can remap the bike for more hp!
It appears that the smaller European makers like CCM, SWM and AJP along with the Indian and Chinese manufacturers are going to lead the way in the short term.
The guys on ADVrider that have bought that little Zonfgshen/CSC RX-3 seem to be pretty pleased with it. Out of the box it apparently has horsepower pretty close to the Yamaha. AJP is using a more potent 30 hp version of that same engine for their PR5R enduro bike.
That 30hp is after a lot of tuning that can just as easily be done on a WR. It also increases the servicing requirements on that Zongshen motor, given that the base config with 3000km intervals is 24.7hp
Its more like 4000Km over here and the valves have screw type tappets, not shims. What is the service interval on a WR250R, which puts out the same HP? I understand that the oil change interval is also 4000Km max and I have heard hat you have to adjust the valved or at least check them at the initial 1000km check.
I can confirm the WR does not have 4000km oil change intervals. For road riding it's 10,000km. I have done a mixture of road and dirt, have changed between 5 - 8,000km.
My WR has almost 80,000km on the clock now.
It has had one valve clearance check (it's meant to be at 40,000km, I had to wait until 43,000 because I was a long way from anywhere)
Still on original piston at 80k Km?
Im curious, if money weren't an issue, what adventure bike would you have, and why?
probably this DR. for all the reasons mentioned through the series. :)
Ill be sad to see this series end! That's for sure
A DR over anything on the planet? LOL Ok
. a rally bike with same changes
like ( Lyndon Poskitt ) bike
and here is why
btw i think he build for costumer
www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/this-modified-ktm-690-rally-may-be-the-ultimate-adv-bike/
ADVENTURE OZ - So I have to ask, why wouldn't you use the DR-Z 400 for such a project bike? It seems to offer similar performance from a much lighter package.
Amazing footage.
Damn that BETA looks so good. Hopefully the next bike!
It's baffling to me how no one will just make a big bore dual sport with a 6th gear and take over the entire market that's been settling for the drz for 20 years
Yamaha´s Tenere 700 gets close, it isnt as light but hey, considering it is 40 kilos lighter than other bikes in its category, it is not a bad option.
It's my opinion that manufacturers got it right in the late 70s and early 80s with the Dakar style bikes that were being made. All we need now is a modern version of what worked perfectly back then! 🏁
i was tired of waiting for a lightweight adventure bike so i built my own started with a 2007 ktm 250 xcfw changed wiring to exc added a larger clarke tank fmf exhaust 300 big bore kit and i street legaled it its flat out incredible for enduro and adventure riding
Ivan Williams but I bet you run the piss out of it on the highway..
The CCM 450 Adventure is only £100 more than the KTM 690 Enduro. Worth it I think.
I'd like to test ride one of these on some trickier byways in the UK and see how versatile they really are. It would also be interesting to hear about reliability by means of a road trip to Morocco and back with some desert riding thrown in for good measure.
+Dale Becker friends and I are taking a ccm 450gp a ktm 950 and a dr350 to Spain/France in a few weeks.
The dr350 I build and can fixed with a pointy stick. The 950 has 52000 miles on and runs fine. The ccm has had 4 lots of warranty work in the last six months.
I'm glad I'm on the ktm, not so glad I'm the ream mechanic.
Light weight, Reliable, Adventure bike. Unicorn.
+Gladius Jon agreed jon, that unicorn 650 adventure model looks very sweet from the specs i've heard
ADVENTURE OZ Yea, I think EVENTUALLY A Maker will... I Love my DR dearly, But its so heavvvvvy!
+Gladius Jon hehe, i live in fear of dropping mine and being stuck underneath. happened once years ago and had to wait for someone to come over and help. :(
ADVENTURE OZ Wow that is a scary thought. I Ride like a loon all the time, alone in the middle of nowhere.. Glad you made it out good!
Motoped with a smart carb,
Good vid Barry. My Adventure bike is an old Yamaha XT600Z, 3AJ. I think from memory it weighs about 185kg wet. We only ride dirt roads and I get about 500km's out of 23litres. Heading off for a couple of weeks on the 9th of May. Approx, 4,500km's and about 50km's is sealed. I'm going to put it all together as a story and I'll send you the link if that's ok.... :-)
Greg
+GREGORY NOEL sounds like a good trip greg, hope it all goes well. awesome to hear how little bitumen is involved!
Great video and I completely agree that the need has not been met... Unfortunately for us, even when you finally get a version of what you're looking for, the US will probably be deprived!
+California Dual Sport Riders it all seems a bit arbitrary at times, which countries get what.... i'd really like the XR650L to still be sold here each year. :(
what about the WR250R/X well know bike longer range then a wr450
mentioned the japanese 250s in the vid
may have missed it ^^ thx
If Yamaha would have built a 450 version of that 250, just scaling up the power and longevity, I think it would have been a hit. DOHC 450 with 6speed, large oil capacity, and forged engine parts (Yamaha does this with the 700R Raptor quad), would be a hit. Sadly manufacturers scoff at the idea and miss out on a large market opportunity.
What you sum up near the end kinda sounds like ducati desert sled maybe (with mods ig?)
Do you want a larger oil capacity because the big bore singles tend to burn oil, or because you will be able to go longer between oil changes?
definitely the latter for adventure riding
I'm saving up for a bigger dual sport/adventure bike. have a Yamaha TW200 now and need much more bike. I'm gonna go with the Bush pig (dr650) because of your videos on it. keep it up you do good work.
+TheSteves75 it will certainly have a bit more grunt, steve :D
Yep, there is a BIG void in the 350-500cc dual purpose/adventure bike out there.
Drz400 ok but outdated. give it new frame, FI and 6 speed it would sell for another 15+ years.
XL650L ok but outdated and tall
DR650 ok but a bit chubby, Shave some weight, add FI and it's back in the game.
ktm 500 exc, too expensive too much maintenance
WR450F only street legal in Australia. Seat too high, peaky HP and torque
just sold a 1984 XL350R GOOD BIKES heavy bikes
302 lbs wet isn't that heavy, XL350S has a bigger gas tank too. The new CRF250L is 319 lbs. :p
yeah if the DRZ400 was updated with FI and a 6 speed along with marginal increases elsewhere (suspsention etc) it would sell like hotcakes.
The WRF is street legal in Europe too if you buy it from Yamaha with the homologation kit and the restriction still on.
Sandlot Rider Not true go to my youtube page my WR250F is not restricted trust me.and am in England WestYorkshire.And it's stock
I want a twin cylinder ~600cc with real dirt wheels and real dirt suspension and ergonomics.
good luck.... tho a rally raided cb 500x comes close .
Yes 600 twin wp, 400 pounds electric start & cruise control
KTM 500 EXC is the one - many guys doing some amazing LD trips and shorter offload stuff on them. Expensive but reliable and powerful / light.
back in the good ol days, the BMW clubs took the /5 to places it shouldn't have gone. Before trail bikes as we know them. Had to ride sometimes hundreds of road miles before going dirt