Destiny 2 Lore - The Corridors of Time's enduring question. Will we fall in Final Shape?
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story featured a moment where we found our own tomb. During the Season of Dawn when we discovered it, deep within the corridors of time, we had no idea that The Witness was approaching. Now as The Final Shape is on the horizon it's worth asking if the Witness will defeat us in the course of the Final Shape. If it does it's also worth asking how we'll be able to return at the end of the story.
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The last boss will be a Code Weasel, boot you to a black screen and you wake up in Skyrim.
🤣👍🤣
"You're finally awake."
Oh good, you're awake
The comment of the day award is yours my friend
😂😂😂
At the end of the Final Shape Raid, one guardian must stay behind and sacrifice themself to save the rest of the fireteam. Effectively deleting their character.
Aztecross: *left behind on his character with his god roll rose* NOOOOOOOOOOO
I would love for our gear to be a "gift" for the next legendary Guardian (Our new freshly made Guardian)
... last I checked, Yoko Taro still worked at Square-Enix. So if we get a NiER colab armor set in April, panic.
Was just about to mention Nier Automata’s Ending E… oh lord
@@georgepickle2871 We're getting a NEIR colab?
"What happened next? Did the Guardian die?"
"Sadly yes...but he survived!"
Could see this happening, with Drifter narrating it, lol.
Reminds me of Disney’s Tangled with how Flynn starts the movie. And how he proceeded to love.
ngl, the final boss of destiny is probably our own guardian and we have to "kill ourself" in an emotional moment to save everyone
i hope we dont have to kill our own ghost like we almost did in Lightfall
"somehow the guardian returned"
Ice age, nice
Imagine you fight the witness, give your all, lose your ghost in the process, you win. The witness is felled, and you are on your knees, nearly broken. And that one taken hobgoblin you missed nails you in the back of the head. Rip Guardian.
Mfw retaliation swarm :(
Nah we all know it would be a sneaky cursed trall
@@tweedilde8089 SCREEB JUMPSCARE!!!
Nah....itd Be Taniks with a Steel Chair!
Sounds like the journey of all men entering a relationship, fighting for the survival of their personality and freedom, before ... we are changed.
Silly Byf, I’ve already died hundreds of times from blowing myself up in various ways.
Guardian hitting his toe on a tiny pebble... death!
Especially with no lives left in solo master nightfall
Finally awake.
You tried using a skimmer into the water at the cosmadrome soft locking yourself?
As a titan main the amount of times I have warlock glided to my death is immeasurable l
I believe this was the ending our character that Elsie Bray told us about during Beyond Light's aftermath, she came to our timeline to prevent not only Ana's death but our own.
That’s possible and an outcome I would be ok with
This
Elsie says we dont exist in her timeline so idk about at
@@teknyonthat’s literally false. Elsie says that even WE fell to the thrall of darkness and stasis in her timeline.
@@ariaofthe6strings230That doesn’t mean we died, it means we were corrupted
I still like the idea of us resurrecting within our own Throne World.
Mara can probably share it with us since it is technically ours from slaying Oryx.
@GodEater015 hers was slightly different though. She allowed herself to be killed by his blade and reverse engineered the magic with her own to generate a throne world. Something to that effecy
I was thinking this too. We did become ascendant to pass through the barrier to oryx's throne, and we have certainly proved ourselves through sword logic to have the power to create our own
Our own XD ... At this point, all of that universe is our throne world and the hive gods just pilfer little mouse homes in it.
We can just steal Xivu Arath's now. She's not using it anymore
Saint’s eulogy will always hit hard for me
i luvd the chirps and audio distortion
it hits harder now that the actor of Saint has sadly passed. i still miss him today
Imagine a cut to black after something major happens, then a create character menu pops up. You keep your gear and everything but you are a new guardian.
Or, it cuts to black and right to the character creator. Once you re-create your character, you get a special mission instead of the usual tutorial, one where you go to the resting place of your old self, Your titles glowing on the tonbstone. It gives you the option to either learn the truth and take the gear, thus continuing the legacy or the option to start fresh and blaze a new path.
Ever notice when firing Bastion you can see the cogs turn and place the bird symbol over what looks like the traveler surrounded by the pyramids before firing? Makes you wonder if it was always the plan to send Crow in.
Huh, time to break it out of the Vault. I forgot about that iconography.
At 14:00 , the corridors Byf is in has a huge sphere in the middle with triangles all around it. It seems to reference the opening cutscene of light fall.
Intentional? Probably not but it’s neat
Holy shit you're right
This gives me faith that Bungie has had a solid plot for a long while
They have had this plot for a long time. It's the execution of this plot that worries me.
here before TheWitness slices us back to Season of Dawn
If I loose my ghost…i’ll probably break down like a baby.
If we lose our ghost we better get a fancy wrist watch x:( x:(
Just tighten it and you’ll be good
@@current3109 or sprinkle some apple cider vinegar on it
That was me when Ghaul yeeted Ghost off the tower in the beginning of D2
I've got a friend on the other side of the spectrum lol. I'm neutral, wish it'd pick up some bravery off of us though.
What if Crow's accidental wish was easy enough to grant because it's mostly already set in motion. There was only one character who DIDN'T face their Nightmare. That was Ikora....and Ikora's Nightmare....was Cayde. Cayde could be a result of Ikora's Nightmare becoming personified because of the joint power within the Traveler because of the presence of Darkness and Light.
Yapping
Dude, shut up! Bro has a very good point and we could take another look at the story so far.
I feel like after rehearing that dialogue. Idk if we actually died. Saint makes a point about the weapon to “leave it be” but “if we are still out there to rejoin” almost more as if we were MIA or only a part of us was recovered (a piece of armor ect) that’s how it sounds to me.
I totally agree, that's exactly how it sounds.
I understood it as Saint knowing there are multiple timelines, and that he was calling to us through time. Our body is dead in his time, but he knows we still exist somewhere
The thought of us being MIA never crossed my mind, but that's an interesting thought
I like this alot
We could have the final mission be us showing up at our own funeral lmao
@@dosears1229 "What kind of shit ending is _THAT?!_ I ain't dead! I'm coming back for more!" - Duke Nukem
I Think that tomb joined the Drifter loyalty vs Vanguard loyalty in the dropped storylines trash bin.
Yeah I don’t know why people are expecting that us, the player, can actually die in a live game. The only way this could happen is if a destiny 3 is made and we can’t transfer, but then people will get furious so this literally just became a what if.
So many stories dropped in the dirt. I know we have beaten this horse past expiration, but it really feels like we wasted hours of our lives reading the lore only for it to be written out of continuity or lost in the obscurity of sunsetting.🤦♂
@@sepikprime401that's why I dropped the game. I already knew they were making things up as they went along, just using the original scrapped story as inspiration here and there, but the on-the-fly style of storytelling eventually developed so many cracks that it stopped being worth the price of admission for me.
honestly, that's most likely what happened. We, the players, seems to analyze the game's story too much, even theorizing context on simple scenes in the cutscenes. We probably put more thought into the story than the Bungie themselves.
@@ihbupontyne To be honest, if we do get our Guardian permanently killed, the best possible way to continue the story from there is similar to what happened between Shin Malphur and Jaren Ward. For our guardian to have mentored another guardian, who would them inherit our whole vault. But that would be hard to do considering the Guardian is a complete self-insert rather than an actual character.
I miss the corridors of time. One of the best events in the game's history.
Losing would be a cool twist. We always win so we are expecting it. If we lose it creates new possibilities for adding to the story
if our Guardian does die then we can imagine our Guardian's last words probably be "Devotion inspires bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice leads to death." or something thats badass
"That's the Destiny™ of all Guardians."
-The player, moments before they commit heroic sudoku
Last Word 👍
".........." -the silent protagonist.
"Devotion inspires bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice leads to death. So I'm gonna kill myself."
“It’s time for my second destiny, my ‘Destiny 2: The Final Shape’”
Finally my favorite lore makes a return
I really hope we do die
Maybe the witness wins and remakes the universe in its image and through the corridors of time we have a second chance to restart
JUST like how saint had a second chance cuz after all said IS technically dead so if we can save saint then there’s definitely a way saint/osiris can save us
Or maybe we have ourselves via an action we had in the corridors of time
that would be the most perfect paradox :)
@@jayjaymarin exactly and that’s why I love it it all comes full circle again
But how would we die in this situation my guy. Look at the game, it's a live service. How would they make that stick or work, period
@@LuigisPikachu obviously we wouldn’t die for long
Maybe in a mission or cutscene
I could imagine there being a mission where we die by the witness and have a cutscene of Osiris making a sundial again and the next mission is us going through it to rez ourselves
Or have it be like saint
We went back in time to save him and give him his weapon then went into the present to kill the vex mind and then after that he came back in a cutscene
It can be just like that
Nah, I’d simply win
My vote is that they've completely forgotten about and it'll never come up again, like the whole questline years back now, where you chose to side with either the Drifter or the Vanguard. You picked a side, and then.... nothing. It's never brought up again. The only change is that you get called either a Sister/Brother by Drifter if you pick him, or a Snitch if you don't. And I don't even know if he DOES that anymore.
still does, up until i quit D2 last month, i sided with drifter so he calls my character brother, my friend sided with the vanguard so they were called a snitch
Ikora also has lines relating to it. On my hunter, I sides with the Drifter, and if you stand near Ikora, she'll sometimes say something like, "Your wilting loyalty to the vanguard has not gone unnoticed." Though apparently, people who chose Vanguard or didn't complete that quest also hear it but that may be due to programming
I get called brother/sister by drifter and wilting loyalty from Ikora. I created my character in late 2023. Maybe that was the canon they decided on?
It would be very poetic if crow was the one to resurrect cayde in the end
I still have the copies of excel sheets working on solving the, what we referred to as, the Hex++, taking everyones images and carving out a path in Corridors of time. Was possibly my favorite time with the community, slept at my desk in the garage so that i wouldnt miss the moment a full solution came out. genuinely one of my favorite events and feels like there has been a lacking of such a gathering since, in the same way at least
Get a life
@@whiteTygr_ I appreciate you taking time out of your life to tell me what to do with mine! Such life changing advice fills me with tears. nevermind the fact this story and experience did actually get me a job, annnd all the time in the navy or college etc. nope its all you internet stranger. thanks o7
Corridors of time was so amazing. I was pretty new to D2 when they dropped and it blew my mind to see that scale of a community puzzle. The incomplete map is my phone background still 😂
I was going to blow up the map and put it on my wall, still haven’t but I will
Also if u look back at savathuns two truths two lies game, we now know two are lies and the last two state that Osiris is dead and our *destiny* lies beyond sol
Ok.. I wish I had been through those seasons even more rn🥲
@@gen8901still there but on rotation in witch queen
technically the pale heart as a pocket dimension is beyond sol
Could be osiris in the grave and not us.
Maybe we go on a mission without the consent of the vanguard similar to forsaken or we piss off and fake our death. Anything could happen
@@wearsjorge55 nope, it's our charecter they're talking about.
So that's why their secretive project is called "Payback" and we are actually getting D3 because we flippin *DIED* in the Final Shape.
Okay but here me out...
...
If we're going to die, and then potentially be ressurected by a paracausal force greater than anything we've encountered before, I'd personally love it to be the Winnower that intervenes rather than the Gardener (perhaps through the uncorrupted Veil which we have also interfaced with to an extent).
Why would I like to see this? Well, in context I actually think it would be the kind of surprise twist which actually makes more sense than the obvious thing when you look back on it. For us to 'die' at all our ghost would need to die first, thereby severing our connection to the Traveller and the Light. However, our connection to the Darkness which we have been cultivating for some time now isn't channelled by our ghost, and if fact severing our connection to the Light completely might be exactly what a being of deeper Darkness even than the Witness needs to reach out and make contact more directly. We associate the Traveller and the Light with ressurection naturally, precisely because of the function of our ghosts, but that doesn't measn cheating death is the domain of the Light alone. The Light controls matter, but matter on its own doesn't make "life". Consciousness - the domain of the Darkness - is just as much a part of that, and we know because of throne worlds that Darkness can be used to circumvent natural death as well, albeit in different ways.
That's why I think it would make sense. Now, why I think it would be *better* from a story perspective to be brought back by the Winnower/Darkness is because it would thematically speaking be the ultimate rebuke of the Witnesses ideology, and represent the final evolution of the more nuanced relationship between Darkness and Light that post-Forsaken Destiny began exploring. If the Unveiling lorebook represents how the Witness interprets the role of the Darkness and the Light in the universe, then clearly by bringing about the Final Shape the Witness sees itself as the ultimate champion of the Winnower's purpose. Wouldn't it be so sweet is - in the moment of it's ultimate defeat, the Witness has to contend not just with fighting an enemy it thought it had already destroyed, but with the hard truth that all this time is has been *wrong* about the nature of the Darkness and the Winnower, so much so that it is in fact the Winnower who will engineer its downfall.
If Darkness and Light have a Yin/Yang relationship, then it follows that there's always a little bit of one in the other, and that they need to exist in balance. The Final Shape that the Witness wants to bring about represents a complete imbalance, and so the Winnower might just be motivated to intervene directly to ensure that the greatest warrior of the Gardener survives and prevails so that the balance may continue.
Damn dude thats deep. Hope in reality we get something close to this. Though, I think if we go in such a direction the can we really close the light vs dark chapter? Thats our whole framework right now but if we move to something different later I have no idea what that could even be so perhaps light and dark will continue somehow?
After Beyond Light and Season of the Hunt story (and especially after the Hawkmoon quest), I thought that Crow was chosen by the Light (Gardener) and the Guardian was chosen by the Dark (Winnower) and at some point they would have to fight against each other. And while Crow would become more and more accepted by the Guardians, the Guardian would follow the dark path using the Darkness subclasses, etc. This would be ironic considering the Forsaken storyline. Buuut it didn't play out this way lol.
So it would be like The Force in Star Wars, where the Light Side is the path to immortality (sort of) through The Force, and the Dark Side allows you to cheat death if you're angry enough.
God damn man. I have to reread some lore now.
This reminds me of an earlier theory, iirc it was back in the lead up to Witch Queen when we thought we'd be getting a green "Hive Magic" subclass, that we'd die and wake up in a throne world, then learn Hive magics from Eris to combat the Hive that had acquired Light.
I wish we could go back to the start in Destiny 2’s current game and play the old stuff from D1-D2 now. Why Venus isn’t a place we can go, the Ishtar Academy and camps held so much potential for learning more on the light and the dark…and yet we have done nothing with any of those cool places.
I think id love a full refresher on the unveiling lore book, the gardener, the winnower, and other instances in the lore that are clearly them. This would help us understand them better and compare them to the traveler and the witness. It would help a lot if we are going down this rabbit hole.
As a D1 Vanilla veteran. I wholeheartedly believe in the last point you made. I have been leaning that way since the beginning and I think it's the only way to go IMHO. Good video as always, Byf.
If we do die and resurrect, I would want us to leave the Last City with maybe Ikora, some of the Hidden, and the dark vanguard, and we just travel the galaxy fixing problems.
I just want a special version of "Your Light Fades Away" with my guardian forcibly dispelling the screen
ala the Thor death scene from GOW Ragnarok
I love the idea. It reminds me of undertale, when frisk’s determination constantly brings them back from the dead in the pacifist run. Or how flowey bring them back to suffer eternity in the normal run.
Bungie boutta hire this man just to keep the finale from being exposed.
I think this could be a story about the true nature of how ghosts work. Ghosts pull us from other timelines to bring us back, which is what makes Darkness zones what they are, where there are no timelines other than the one we’re in to pull from. I think that this is just insight on one of the timelines that we died for good in a darkness zone, and couldn’t be brought back. Maybe in the future, maybe not.
The reason ghosts can't revive you in a darkness zone is because it's a darkness zone. There is no light there. In the red war technically everything before you get to the first shard is a darkness zone. You have no light. In the all mighty there's a lore page of a ghost being really confused about not being able to revive their guardian, who was trapped in a field of extremely slowed down time, trapped in stasis. The ghost openly admits they don't know how resurrection works, but that it only works once their body has been fully destroyed. Otherwise, they heal you. Why would their powers just heal you, but pull another you from a different timeline if you die? I think it's a more general magical healing/reviving ability than involving timelines.
Technically the body doesn't have to be destroyed, the same ghost says it can reconstruct its guardian even after they simply throw themselves off a cliff. Would this not cause strange paradoxes or at least be included in the lore something about guardians finding their bodies?
I'm starting to think the Traveler always was a portal, a wormhole connecting to the Gardener or maybe the garden. That the Witness just forced its way in through the door but didn't create the door. Explains why the Traveler is silent if it is more of a construct or a tool of the Gardener. And have the Witness spoken to the Traveler, said its name? Or was the Witness speaking to whats on the other side?
Our Guardian's death would be the perfect ending to Destiny 2, with Destiny 3 as a starting point for our guardians resurrection maybe in the distant future. Saint 14's eulogy would be an intro, followed by a ghost finding our grave.
..... good God you could be a writer for bungie. Anybody that thinks that terrible idea is good definitely qualifies to write more garbage for them.
@@morsorcus8152❄️
@@morsorcus8152 You dont have to be that mean dude
@@morsorcus8152 That’s nice. God bless.
@@morsorcus8152 Hey, there's enough negativity in this world, let people have naïve imaginations and dreams. Don't be this much a dick.
That's funny watching Cayde's body get dragged inside the Traveler. But yeah Venextron covered the 2 entities topic VERY clearly! Also someone theorized our physical body will get obliterated fighting the Witness as our Ghost was suppressed and that we will need our body from the Corridors of Time to get resurrected along with a new power that body had learned from that timeline preparing for a round 2 which seems a little too farfetched imo. Either way Bungie has to pull a big one in respect for the fans.
While some believe that Crow making a type of wish, unknowingly may have brought Cayde back, I have another theory. Deep inside the garden of the Traveler, lies a place where all the dead Guardian legends reside. After a Guardian dies, they are returned to the Light, where their spirit sleeps. Their Ghost, becomes a part of them, imbuing a part of the Guardian: their favorite weapon, piece of armor, or the Guardian themselves, with astronomically powerful light. Their Ghost cannot speak to them, but they are instead in a different form. The Traveler had been dormant, for many centuries since the Witness and it’s Black Fleet invaded Sol with it’s minions. Even after the Travaler was healed, and awake, the Traveler didn’t do much. That’s because, for so long, the entity within the Traveler, the Gardner; she was preparing each soul, each Guardian that defended her and died as a selfless and brave legend for others, to awaken one day, as an army of legends to combat the Witness. Cayde, was merely woken up early, and was the first of her army to reawaken. The Guardian may die in destroying the Witness, and its armies and fleets, while Cayde saves us. The Gardner appears, and she offers us a choice: stay and defend her Garden of Light with our sisters and brothers of the Light. Or return back to Sol, to defend her, the light, and others once again. After a knowing glance, she understands. Cayde says: “See ya around kid”. “The Guardian responds, we’ll meet again. Space cowboy”.
I feel as though, this is why the Traveler has seemed so distant to us since it arrived in Sol centuries ago. The Gardner saw a vision of what was coming, and she’d made plans, subtle steps, to ensure the survival of everyone, and everything. Most prominent, her building an army of Guardian legends. So much of her energy went into preparing for the final battle, she may not have had the strength, or noticed us, during the centuries it took to prepare.
Thanks for showing the grave amd Sain 14s speech. I was taking a break from Destiny dureing this time and only saw on the outside the community involvment with solving the puzzle. I missed everything else.
I'd like it to have an impact. Like our ghost sacrifices itself to blow up all the pyramids, and after completing it, we are granted either our ghost from a different timeline or use the hive ghost from the witch queen dlc
Why does this video get me more hyped for the final shape than any of the trailers so far? 😂
My theory: is that bungie wants to kill off our guardian, so that we have an excuse to be able to re-customise the actual guardian itself after creation, like if you made a male hunter, you will be able to make it a woman if you wanted, and right after they kill off our guardian it will put you back in the character creation screen or something.
Great video! Corridors of Time is still to this day the most amazing community driven experience we have ever participated in hands down! I was only the team with Gladd and friends taking all the inputs from various players inputting into that Excel sheet to solve, just amazing!
Amazing content Byf, loving it!
The CZcamsr Venexteon did a really solid video discussing the Unveiling and about the if the Winnower and Gardener truly are real entities within the universe, and he goes over all the threads of lore throughout the years and pieces it together really thouroughly.
Would highly recommend it. It's an hour and a half, but a really engaging theory, and hopefully, Bungie follows through with it even to some extent.
The only thing that can be said with true certainty: Everything that has a beginning, has an end.
"Nothing ends"
"All ends are beginnings"
Thank you Byf. It's probably not said enough. But thank you so much for all the time you put into these lore videos to keep the love for this game with its deep and rich lore alive. It what helps me and pushes me to continue to be a fan and see through to the end no matter what.
I think it would be nice to have a scene like one found in the last of the Harry Potter movies, where Harry "dies" and wakes up in a strange almost heavenly rendition of Kings Cross and talks to Dumbledore.
It would be really interesting to have a similar scene where we and our ghost, after being slain, wake up in a garden with the gardener and they explain everything, giving us the choice to either stay dead, or go back, which we would obviously take in that case.
The last thing our guardian says would be “seems like through out these years we’ve finally fulfilled our destiny”
We've watched while the stars burned
out, and creation played in reverse.
The Universe freezing in half light.
Yet I cannot help but remember one enigma.
A hybrid, elusive destroyer.
This is the only mystery I have not solved.
The only element unaccounted for.
But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won.
A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand.
You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern.
Yours to manipulate, to destroy and rebuild.
Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all
become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.
I know who you are.
You Are Destiny
I've said for a while: I believe that we the guardian, mastering light and dark within us will lose our ghost, die our apparant final death, and then revive ourselves, defying everything we ever knew, having a dear parting with our ghost, and outgrowing the need.
in turn that would cause our guardian to become the final shape itself, a perfect being of light and dark able to wield it to it's heart content
@@RealCtcthe perfect ending to what Bungie has called the light dark war
Then bungie couldn’t sell you anymore ghost cosmetics.
I could totally see a sick as hell cutscene looking at our grave and then our guardian slowly creeping into frame
I really enjoy watching the shorts, they are full of information about aspects of the game we normally wouldn’t care about.
Watching this vid reminds me of the younger years in Destiny's lifecycle back when the game sempt fun and exciting to play. Fast forward to today where I feel no hope or "looking forward" to the last expansion for the series. I miss the days where I had fun with friends on the game, today is the complete opposite. Kudos to those that still have fun or excitement for this game.
The shorts are amazing. Keep it up!
God i love how you tell these storys and theories you voice is amazing
THANK YOU FOR COVERING THIS!!!! I feel like I was crazy being the only one In my entire group of friends who remembered seeing our grave.
Killer content Byf. Kudos!
Great video as always Byf
The corridors of time was such an awesome event. It really showed that bungie can tell a good story, and can make amazing community events. I just wish they did it more often....
Gotta say starting a byf video and hearing the theme will never not hit❤
shorts contrent is excellent, great for learning a little bit when i dont have 20 minutes spare for a full video. and it lts you cover smaller topics too
Another great video keep them coming
You should also look into the ship: Symmetry Flight, I feel that it has important lore implication dealing with this topic.
Thank you for reminding me of this. How did I forget about this
I have a weird theory
And it kinda makes sense with saint's eulogy.
Here's my theory, a lot of people have been asking for a D3 and Bungie said that Final Shape is the closing of the Light and Darkness saga. What if at the end of the campaign we die. But are then sent back to the character scene and have the choice to pick resurrecting our old gaurdian OR, here me out, create a new gaurdian separate from the other 3 and you can pick your starting subclass from the ones you have. Like new game+. You'll have access to all your weapons just like before but it's a new gaurdian.
Like reincarnation instead of resurrection.
New game+ only works when the game in question has a definitive beginning and end. Destiny 2 doesn't. For one it's original content is all but gone. But also it's an MMO.
@@Chloroxite that's why there's a like before the new game+
It wouldn't be new game+ it would be something like it. If they do kill us off there is a definitive end to the game.
I have just realised: the room with the Traveler model in its centre (in the corridors) is almost a one-to-one recreation of the pyramid ship arrangement around the _actual_ Traveler *now*
Osiris: "You might not be able to come back from this."
Guardian: "I guess that's just my-"
Ghost: "Don't say it."
Guardian: "Destiny."
Supposedly, we'll fight the witness at the end of the raid and then again in a separate encounter afterward iirc. so perhaps we die to the witness at the end of the raid , get resurrected (prolly by the traveler since the ghosts channel its light to rez us), then we go and beat the witness in a seperate final encounter.
I thing the soundtrack in that funeral speech is super cool too. It’s the same soundtrack as the memories soundtrack when we first booted up D2 on launch with all our D1 accomplishments shown to us.
I feel that us a Guardians discovering our own graves, changes the way we may finally die. Perhaps in another timeline, we DID die fighting The Witness... perhaps this speech was a call for arms amongst all similar timelines to change their own fate, effectively bringing a new causality into reality, one where we WILL win, we WILL fight on to live another day
I completely forgot about the corridors of time. Crazy puzzle and community effort. We could be in the tomb but I think its going to be someone else.
I’ve been waiting for you to discuss the Unforeseen Consequences ship lore tab! If you didn’t mention it in a video, I was about to do it myself, and nobody would watch it.
One thing ive wondered since i started playing, a month before forsaken
Is the traveler really the only one of its kind? Maybe its like the witness, channeling the light, but not the only being like it. A powerful being sitting in a HUGE ball shaped ship, powered by light. But not the only one of its kind. Maybe there are other god like entitys channeling the light, maybe lying dorment.
That thought crosses my mind every so often when playing.
A very interesting point to add some fuel to the fire. The weapon Saint laid on our graves is in all likelihood the Perfect Paradox.
In one of Bungie’s Final Shape teasers… there is a shot of a Titan holding the Perfect Paradox. Possibly reissued in the expansion
That speech gives me chill every single time.
Damn, I don't think I ever made it all the way through this back in the day. Thanks for sharing.
I wondered the same thing, I remember my friend sending me a game clip of the corridors of time.
I’ve never believed that Unveiling was told to us by the Witness - it’s far too precise to be a bunch of bunk. Twisted as it might be by bias, it tells us of details that even the Witness, old as it it is, wouldn’t have been around to know. There is still something greater than the Witness out there with its own goals…
I think an interesting possibility that was put to me by a friend of mine, is that the Witness is actually the First Knife as described within Unveiling, the Traveler being the light equivalent. The Traveler and the Witness are the chosen Kings on the chessboard that is our universe - and every King has a player overhead that is manipulating its movement.
As for whether or not we are fated to die…
“Guardians make their own fate.”
I remember getting to that grave, it was so cool. I hope we get to that at some point
Corridors of Time is the single biggest lore dump that I'm sad I missed out on (started in late arrivals). Would have loved to have been around for it.
That Season was my absolute favorite Season ive played but saints eulogy hits me hard always
There is also a very possible idea that our Guardian dying *is* the end of this particular arc in Destiny and that we will need to make new characters for whatever comes next.
I'm still a bit mad that I missed out on this entire plot beat because I was taking a break from the game at the time.
One of my biggest fears about Final Shape, and the episodic content after, is that it will not allow for this plot line to come to fruition. It feels like Destiny will be put in a somewhat purgatory state, or it will continue for the sake to continue. It feels like we have lost a lot of the world building and set-up that actually made current/future events exciting. As cool as Warlord’s Ruin was, it narratively made so little sense. It doesn’t feel like it was set-up or ever alluded to in the past. More or less, it feels like a “this season is about an Ahamkara so we might as well make a dungeon based on an Ahamkara” rather than something truly important to the story. Whereas Ghost of the Deep felt important to the story even if our actions were somewhat disconnected from the seasonal story. Oryx’s body and Savathun’s brood being on Titan made sense and felt meaningful to the story. The set-up for Warlord’s Ruin honestly feels like it would have fit better in a strike personally. A dungeon on Neomuna would have been a lot more interesting and impactful for the story imo.
Byf, not going to lie I been thinking about this same thing. The part where we see our death coming to fruition in Last Shape. Been thinking Gardener will play a very big part
Byf, THE CONCORDAT gave us the skimmer.
Personally, now that I notice this, it is interesting:
The ground around the grave is actually similar to the city, or maybe the actual ground of the tower inside the pale heart, maybe? There are several theories that can be actually something that'll show here. Everything that has a beginning... has an end. But we don't know ours, so finding it wouldn't be something we can't understand. Even including one thing: like the Exo Stranger's future, this could've been a route in our future. We just decided to take a 90° turn from? Nobody knows...
I have a theory, a bit bland but its what I think.
In unveiling the Gardener says that it will become a rule in the game. To create that chaos and randomness to refute the Winnowers belief in the final shape. The Gardener being one of the two entities at the beginning of time- the one being that created life in the flower game-is the embodiment of the light, as the light is in all things living everywhere. In the effort to create this new "rule"-as in to make itself into this new rule-manifested itself as the Traveler. This new rule being the paracausal power of the Light from the Traveler. But in the creation of this new rule the paracausal light, a corresponding consequential opposite was created the paracausal darkness.
If we go back to unveiling, the Winnower didn't say that he would become a new rule like the Gardener did. But in end of the book he says " as I looked down I saw the first knife." or something like that. Because the paracausal light was introduced as a new rule to the flower game. The paracausal Darkness was inadvertently into the flower game as well-'no coin is one-sided' there wasn't balance. Darkness was created as a avatar of the Winnower. Therefore the Winnower doesn't have a manifestation like the Traveler, they didn't have a piece on the board. Thus there being no opposite to the Traveler. But because of that, there was still a lack of balance. The Universe wanted balance. And thus naturally, filling a hole left open, the Precursors would eventually fill this hole. Manifesting themselves as the antithesis to the Traveler. Becoming the Winnower's piece on the board. Not because of the will of the Winnower, but because of the lack of balance in the Universe. The same lack of balance that created the paracausal darkness.
The Flower Game is the Universe. As the sun rose and Gardener gardened, the Universe was born and lived. And as dusk set and the Winnower set to cutting, the Universe died. Like the Heat Death of the Universe. This went on and on and on. But the Gardener wanted to change this. And intervened creating the new rule: the Light and itself as the Traveler. But the balance of the Universe intervened and created the opposite Darkness. Not derivative of the Winnower, but as a consequence of the light. I'll talk about that later. The Precursors were first to experience the Traveler, as the Traveler was "born" on their planet. But because of that continued lack of balance the Universe felt because of the Traveler. The Precursors naturally became the antithesis to the Traveler.
The reason why I don't think the Darkness is from the Winnower is because the Winnower to me is the end of the Universe. The cutting down of everything to the inevitable final state of the Universe of 100% entropy. There will come a time when everything will decay into nothing and no particle will ever interact with another particle again. Complete disorder. Complete 100% entropy. The Darkness subclasses we have aren't really emblematic of that. Theyre about exerting your will over things, and whatever strand is I forgot, doing BDSM stuff.
Hope you see this. Hope this inspires some ideas and dialogue. I go bed.
Saint said that about Osiris once... "On the day we met, I decided I would follow his example. I'm still trying."
I think that is Osiris' grave. And we are missing or something in that flashback.
IMO the traveler is a sort of "sentient machine" that serve to purpose of its creator (gardener) and is the last of many.
He is linked to a paracausal world to be fonctional (imagine multiples computers connected to one root server that give them internet and directives), and the witness wanted to acess the "server" from it and take control of the gardener's power.
Also remember that Wish Magic doesn’t really rule out the traveler’s power, wish magic can be very absurd and direct, like creating objects out of nothing or trapping a city in an eternal time loop where everything magically resets to three weeks prior, but it can also be very subdued and indirect, in the case of praedyth, where he was caught in a vex trap that just so happened to fulfill his wish of his time with his friends never ending
Byf, you should do a video on the implications of the skimmer lore tab, and the return of the Concordat
I remember watching the Destiny gameplay reveal and trailer back in 2014 and thinking it was a good idea. Little did I know I would still be following the story 10 years later. It's really bittersweet for me to watch Destiny's long and beautiful story come to a conclusion (most likely haha). This is by far my favorite game and I built so many friendships on this game. It's still crazy to me that the game is coming to a conclusion.
I wouldn't doubt we'll come across an old friend... Speaker... in the heart of the Traveler, it would be a nice throwback to the D1 days...
My theory: paracausality. We both die, and do not die. Vex time fuckery could easily enable this, too.
The gambit momento is just the weapon core that drops from "talking" to the tomb.
Now that I’m rehearing the dialogue I’m more under the impression that after the final shape where we’re dealing with the aftermath and remaining villains like Xevu. And whenever the last piece for this game is done our guardian is going to be attacked by something ( we don’t know what until the release of d3 ) and the final cutscenes of D2 will be our surviving friends finding our body our ghost and the sword that we used to defend ourselves. And saint giving the eulogy.
im bummed out that I missed the corridors of time. But it's cool that I can at least see it through other perspectives.
I love how passionate the community is about how deep the lore can (and has) gone.
Ultimately, however, the Final Shape I expect to be barely puddle deep, carried by the hopes of the community and external narrative.
Coming back to this after today's artifact mods announcement, a lot of sword based shenanigans there...
We've already brought about so many changes in this timeline to things/events that in previous timelines seemed immutable. I think we'll be able to avert our own final death.
But if the Final Shape gives us more information about the Gardener and the Winnower (and if they are distinct from the Traveler's and the Veil's respective creators), i will be happy enough.