What TOY STORY Got Right About Friendship
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- How can you build friendships that last to infinity and beyond?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright talk about the characteristics of strong friendships as shown by the characters in Pixar's Toy Story franchise, especially Woody and Buzz. These characters show what it's like to maintain friendship even when you disagree or face hard times. It's about supporting each other (even when you're having an existential crisis when you realize you're a toy), being real with each other (like telling your friend he's not a space ranger), caring for one another, and having awesome catchphrases.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: David Sant
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
Spanish Transcription by: Juan Willems
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We always hear about romantic breakups, but friend breakups are the real kicker in life. Friendships are so incredibly important throughout life, and these movies are a great showcase of that in a different universe!
Agreed, friendship breakups hurt even more than romantic relationships, in that while romantic partners come and go, friends should typically have your back... Until they don't
@@trinaq oh this hurts
Facts
@@trinaq my biggest hurts is was a friend just not being their.
I can be wrong as a Catholic Priest in a all boys school, if I fall out of a relationship..console me, then when I'm okay tell me where I fucked up.
Because i had your back & you didn't have mine
that's what i'm going through right now, 4 months later i'm still broken up and as far as i can tell she doesnt care
“True friendship says, Your success doesn’t mean I’m failing; it means we are in different places right now.” Just to have it written somewhere. Thanks Jonathan for this!!
Yes, that was such an impactful point. This represents where my best friend and I are at right now. She is going off to college and has a boyfriend, and is generally moving on in life. I am fresh out of high school with no plans and no idea where to go in life. It’s easy to feel left behind and jealous of my friend’s success. But Woody and Buzz’s friendship encourages me to celebrate my friend’s success, and support her. Because it’s not a race, it’s two friends supporting each other where we’re at.
@@baileywhittington1695 I wish I had that quote when my ex-best friend had abandoned me. He saw my growing success in college and following my dreams and achieving them, and my becoming socially confident and seeing through the awful tips he fed me, and got so mad and tried to make me think I couldn’t survive without him (a key concept of gaslighting, as highlighted in the Tangled analysis these guys did), before cutting off from me forever. Thankfully, though, despite the trust issues that instilled in me, I am working through those issues now and reaching out and continuing to be open to new friends and opportunities. And I was not as lost as he wanted me to be (my own mother Gothel, you could say), because I already had a healthy group of friends in GA, where I live now, by my side, and who don’t see my success as their failure, like he clearly did, looking back on it
@@Overseer2579 As a dramatic a**hole, he was probably also angry that you weren't gonna be stuck validating him anymore. (Additionally sounds like a narcissist)
I'm glad you had a separate network of support because this guy obv never truly cared about you
@@astraamarante6233 thank you 😢🥲
I really needed these words.
gotta agree with alan on this one about the movie, they had a perfect ending on 3, and completely threw it away for 4. i think something that especially bugged me was that andy asked bonnie to take extra care of woody because he meant a lot to him, and lo and behold she stopped playing with him and when he was lost, i dont think she looked for him :0
Same. It hurts that Andy entrusted Woody to Bonnie and she essentially forgot about him. I don't blame Bonnie - Woody just wasn't her kinda guy, but I would have rather Woody go with Andy to college and just be a token of childhood for him for the rest of his life than to be forgotten. (I know, that breaks up the gang and makes it a weird "yes adults can have toys and it's not sad" thing that would have been contrary to TS2, but just preferable in my mind to the outcome of TS4.)
I don't hate TS4, it's a good movie, but I don't consider it part of one of my favorite trilogies.
And TS2 is the best. Best plot, best humor, just all around best, even with the silly "they drove the baggage car back to the house" business.
I totally agree. And I honestly think that Bonnie's arc in that movie was actually somewhat unrealistic in the sense that she just gives up a toy that she grew to love almost immediately.
Agree with all of the above. Totally team Alan. TS4 undid all that the series had done. Was it nice for us to see what happened to Bo? Yeah, but they explained kinda what happened and it was fine. We didn’t need TS4. TS3 wrapped everything up beautifully and I just keep forgetting TS4 exists. I’m repressing it, if you will. Lol.
I mean maybe it's implicit bias because I've been working at a daycare for over two years now, but Bonnie just losing her favorite toy like it's no big deal isn't all that realistic. Many kids I've known keep VERY close tabs on their toys. XD
I fully agree. Toy Story 3 is one of my all time favourite movies, so I was very excited to see the fourth one when it came out. To say I was disappointed in the ending would be an understatement. To me, only the first three truly count
Jonathan is Buzz, Alan is Woody.
Jonathan being an inspirational existence, and Alan, probably from Jonathan, went from unlicensed to pro filmmaker, much like how Woody grew after Buzz came.
Cool
That's what I was thinking, without the deep insight.
Also, the more I think about it, Jonathan kinda looks like Buzz. And isn't Alan a lot taller like Woody?
🤔👍
@@brandonprater4613👀 YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT
Obviously, I love Cinema Therapy for the life advice, the movie analysis, the quips, the brilliant editing jokes, and the insight that Alan and Jono offers. But I have GOT to give a shout out to the incredibly non-toxic masculinity and exemplary male-to-male friendship that these two men display. I hope every single person on earth can have role models like these in their lives,
Thank you so much for this.
❤
Yes ❤️
@@CinemaTherapyShow Could you guys do both Guardians of the Galaxy or The Godfather please? That would be interesting. P.S. your episode are awesome 😎 I watch your episodes every time I need a laugh or two
Hear, hear!
I remember being 8 years old when I saw Toy Story 3 in theaters. I remember being terrified for the crew and realizing what would happen in the trash incinerator scene. I understood what the look in their eyes meant.
For Pixar to portray the imminence of death and sorrow in a way that an 8-year-old can understand, not through words or dialogue, but simply through animation and music is an amazing feat.
This scene still terrifies me and brings tears to my eyes to this day.
I was 20 and still cry when I see it
I was 22 years old and I cried like a bitch
And you all officially make me feel old.
I some how didn't see Toy Story 3 until I was properly in collage over a winter break and I UGLY cried. Especially since I still have some of my plush toys from when I saw the first Toy Story came out. I went and hugged them all so tight. Litterally as a 20 something year old. 🤣🤣
I was 20, it was an evening showing, so mainly adults, and everyone sat stunned, tears streaming holding the persons hand next to them, even if they were strangers. There's not many Cinema experiences in my life where the whole audience was shook like that. Infinity war was one 🤔
The trash scene in Toy Story 3 always gets to me deeply for a very personal reason. My brother, who has Autism, loves these movies. Toy Story 1 and 2 are his jam, they're movies he watches frequently, and the Little Green Men are his favorite. Their scene inside the Pizza Planet with the claw game is his favorite scene, to the point that my mother has a tattoo of three Little Green Men with Woody and Buzz, and without fail every time my brother sees the tattoo he'll repeat some line from that scene.
To have the Little Green Men be the saviors, with a claw, in Toy Story 3 in such a dark moment for the characters, resonates with me so deeply; because we've had a lot of tragedy in our family. But throughout it all, my brother often brings moments of light during these dark moments, he brings forth these moments of love. And that scene always makes me think of him and how deeply loved he is by our family.
My friend from college and I didn't talk for 5 years after we graduated. We did not grew apart or had an argument, we just started building up our lives are were busy. And now after all those years, we finally reconnected this month and it felt so good. It was like the past 5 years where never there. We talked for 3 hours straight about everything that happened and it felt so warm and natural. That's true friendship.
"Woody once risked his life to save mine, and I couldn't call myself his friend if I wasn't willing to do the same." My favourite Buzz quote of all time, and it perfectly sums up Buzz and Woody's friendship, and how they learned to trust each other after spending most of the first movie at loggerheads.
It's perfect! Hope you are doing good, Trina
@@Firegen1 Thanks so much, Firegen1, I'm doing splendidly, thanks for asking, hope that you're also doing well. It's always a treat to run into you on the Cinema Therapy comment section!
@@trinaq Love to hear that! Your comments always make me smile and think, Trina. Always gonna hype you if I see you in the comments. 😊
Thank you, I dig that too, it's nice to chat ideas across the boards. Also feel free to just call me Gen or G if that's easier 😊
@@Firegen1 Aww, thanks so much, you've just made my entire week. 😘Ditto, I always get excited if I happen to spot you in the comments!
@@Firegen1 omg this was the most wholesome interaction i've ever seen on internet!! (Im sorry if the english its kinda funky, im not a native speaker) U just made me smile 💛
Honestly, I appreciated the correction of "family friendly" from "kid's" film because I'm so tired of underhandedly denying that people over the age of 13 or whatever can't thoroughly enjoy and love these movies. They were made for everyone, animation doesn't automatically mean it's for children. Thank you for that~
YES. It’s very validating. Makes me feel seen and understood, you know?
AGREED.
Family friendly =/= for kids
Family friendly = for everyone
Calling something a kids game or a kids movie pushes the narrative that an adult is childish if they like it, which stigmatizes things that adults enjoy. The amount of shit I've received from being a film-loving gamer who still plays hopscotch over the years would fill a valley.
Yeah I finally know how to describe them
IMO: I love that the first 3 movies were about holding on to what you love and fighting for it, but I also love that in the 4th movie it touches on it’s also okay to let go too and move onto another chapter and the people that love you will support you. I feel like it takes the “toxic positivity” out of the story and gives it a real life feel that shows sometimes, you have to let go and you don’t always get to keep everything and that’s okay. I do think the 3rd movie ended beautifully and it would have been perfect there but the addition felt like another layer/perspective.
Thank you! I’m so tired of people trashing on the 4th movie for no reason!
The 3rd ended Andy’s story, but in case you people forgot, the franchise is called “Toy Story”, not “Andy Story”.
Eso es rídiculo. Eso de "dejarlo ir" es, literalmente la 3 película.
It definitely did
I do appreciate this take. It's a really great way to take something that could be considered not great and puts a new perspective on it.
I think the 3rd one does that well too, Andy is basically letting go of his toys ( his most treasure toys) and Woody and leaves to college. The fourth was unnecesary for me but to each their one, that's the beauty of art
Some of my favorite things in life:
- Petting my dogs
- Eating Cookie Dough Ice Cream
- Crying with Alan Seawright as we watch movie clips
Keep it up, love you guys as always. 💜
What I just realized is that the relationship between Buzz and Woody can really apply to older and younger siblings. Woody the older brother growing bitter towards his new younger brother Buzz who’s getting all the attention. By the end though, they’re as thick as thieves. Good sibling relationships without overtly being siblings is great!
Dude that is exactly what they are! I never thought of that.
I love that perspective☺️That's exactly what those two are in a way; siblings lol.
As a person on the aro-ace spectrum, I really appreciate when stories treat platonic relationships as equally important and defining as romantic or sexual ones, as well as stories that portray characters as complete and fulfilled even if they do not have a romantic or sexual partner or are not seeking one.
THIS im aroace and i 100% agree!!
I'm neither but my friends are still so incredibly important in my life... Friendships really do not get the attention they deserve.
Ayyyy, you said it perfectly, hats off to you, friend! (fellow aroace here)
Even if we are similar or different, I feel *everyone* can appreciate the value of friendships.
@@Snowshowslow exactly! Friends are the most important connections in your life! They really need more attention than they get!
I’m straight and I used to want to be in a relationship, after my first break up, I realized all I needed was good friends to be loved. Toy Story reminds me that you can be loved in many ways doesn’t have to be in a relationship. Also happy Pride! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
"the best of times, the worst of times"
I once phrased it as "loving someone isn't just loving them when it's EASY... it's loving them even though it may be the hardest thing to do in that moment"
when talking to a pair that were good friends of mine, that had been having domestic issues and asked for my help...so I found a therapist for them. It worked, even if they separated later it was not because of those particular issues... and I still remember what the therapist said to me when I first approached him "it shows how much you love them, to go this far out of your way to help them"
after losing my mother and a partner of 15 years in the span of 6 months... I became pretty hard to love... I've been negligent to my own health, self destructive...bitter... to the point I ended up in the ICU for reasons none of us have yet to figure out (partly because I have a total blackout of the 36 hours prior to my hospitalization, but evidence suggests I accidentally poisoned myself through said reckless behavior)
My friends have all stayed by me... they want me to be better, to get better... and they know from experience that I've been there for them, so they know it's not a one way street...
The joke is "real friends will help you hide the body"
but the truth is... "real friends will help you, because they love you"
I understand as my mental health caused me to self destruct to where I was drinking to control my anxiety, developed insomnia so was not sleeping unless I took meds, my eating disorder got out of hand, overdosed and nearly died 4 times, was assaulted, diagnosed with fibromyalgia, lived with an abusive mom and I was *NOT* loveable. I was very negative, angry, depressed and bitter. I lashed out. I had only one person stay with me and I had awful fights with her yet she stayed and is the reason I'm alive! She checked up on me even when she was mad at me because she always says that she thinks I'm a good person and that nobody is perfect! We all screw up but the difference is if you take responsibility and change which I have for the better. I'm currently going to therapy for my C-PTSD which has made me more stable even though I'm going through hell again now. Back then was different though as I never really had anything THAT bad happen so I didn't know who would stay or not. Because of my friend, aunt and my therapist I'm still here working on life. The death I understand toooo well as my older brother died in 2020. He had just turned 33...😭😭😭 If I didn't have my tiny support group I don't know where I'd be...
It's really true that you find out who your friends are at times like these...
Not to overlook your wonderful sentiments, but the joke is:
"Friends will help you move. Real friends will help you move a body."
@Little Monster As another person living with fibro and following a lot of fellow "spoonies" via Instagram, I really feel like having a good support network - even if it's only one or two people - is a vital key to surviving life with chronic illness? Whether they provide in-person practical help, or remote encouragement & emotional support, they're so important to mentally surviving these challenges...
I love friendships. They're so underrated. As an aro/ace, finding great friendship/family arcs is very difficult but _so rewarding._ Romance is so freaking overdone, it's a staple of any "good story" and you need to shove one in somewhere. Media exploring a friendship first and foremost is amazing. I loved Woody and Buzz's relationship. It's just amazing. Pure and simple.
My opinion on 4? I've been burned so hard by sequels. 3 was perfect, I didn't even _look_ at 4. I wiped its existence from my memory. Instead of doing that, I watched some video essays that included Toy Story 4 plot threads and characters and inferred what happened. I understand that friends will drift apart--sometimes literally. But another gosh darn romance plot? On top of basically him leaving because of a romance? It's not just me not understanding, it's genuinely frustrating because it happens so often and so unnecessarily. Character A chooses Love Interest over Character B, who has been their best friend/sibling/whatever for a very long time because they're the Love Interest.
Yes, I'm also targeting mega hate to a certain other franchise that took BFFs apart because one found a girlfriend and the other thought it prudent they all leave.
This is exactly how I feel and I want to thank you for that. I don't consider myself aro/ace (at least yet) but friendships have always had an important place in my life I feel others don't share. A lot of movies came out around that time that also separated friends (wreck it ralph 2, HTTYD 3) and I do not see the appeal of leaving your friends like that, ESPECIALLY for love. Platonic relationships are just as important as romantic ones I think.
@@matildeneto4648 I was referencing HTTYD 3 at the end. lol They really did a poor job. They had so much build-up and hype from the previous two movies, the show series (multiple!), game, etc. then to just fumble the ball at the goal was sad to see.
You don't need to be disgusted by sex and confused by romance to enjoy friendship and not see the appeal in unnecessary or poorly done romantic plots! :D
@@VenomQuill Weren't Hiccup and Astrid together since they were kids? Since the end of the first film? Doesn't seem rushed to me. Also Hiccup and Toothless didn't separate for love, but to protect dragons from humans who would inevitably kill or use them and explain why dragons don't exist in the modern world.
@@typhoonzebra I'm not talking about Astrid. I'm talking about the obvious love interest that popped into existence in the third movie. Yeah, protecting dragons from humans is the _excuse,_ but it's not the whole truth. They were advertised as a couple and contests with them specifically focused on them as a couple. So dragonkind leaving forever because more bad humans is an excuse. Why didn't the Berkians leave? I mean, plenty of people attacked them. Why didn't the sheep leave? Dragons attacked them all the time in the first movie. It would've been safer to move the sheep elsewhere.
Bad people will exist and they will continue to exist. Pushing the entirety of multiple species into hiding is a bandaid fix at best.
@@VenomQuill But again, that wasn't rushed. It was set up from film one with Toothless being the only one of his kind in the hive. Later reinforced in 2 with comments like "maybe we'll finally find another night fury". It was clear what direction the finale would take.
Also the romance was used just as much as an excuse as human mistreatment. Fundamentally, the writers had to rid the world of dragons... Because there's no dragons. You ever seen one? And also because executives demanded it as the basis for a show they were financing.
Just so happens though that marketing found one of the excuses far more compelling as a means of... Marketing. I mean, a new dragon sells toys, gets kids (the primary audience) nice and hyped. Far more marketable than the ephemeral concept of anthropogenic mistreatment of nature.
Even if they never included a romance for Toothless in any capacity, it would have ended the same way regardless. Blaming it on the romance just seems like a venting of personal distaste. Which, you're allowed to have. No one can make a person like romance, friendship or even acquaintanceship. But don't let your feelings cloud your judgement. That's how the Sith operate. Romance or no, the bois were gonna be separated.
As a character animator, I agree with Alan! That's exactly what made me sad about Toy Story 4's story and why I wouldn't be upset about a Toy Story 5 buddy-reunion.
How about we just forgot it happened, that was a shit movie
Hm. I disagree. Woody started out with the philosophy of "Helping a kid," specifically helping _his_ kid, Andy. But by the second and third movies he had more morphed into helping and "leading" toys, with Jessie and the preschool toys. He had already undergone that development, so working with Bo to help "Lost Toys" find their "place" in the world was a far more natural progression of his story than just staying stagnant with Bonnie until she grew up and repeating that cycle over and over.
@@GoddoDoggo Hm... Arguable. You can view Toy Story from two perspectives: The natural and real life/death cycle of a toy: Making a child happy with the danger of getting lost, broken, sold, trashed or handed down to repeat the cycle anew or seeing them as characters with progression and such. To many, the former meant more, as it was so down-to-earth in a way and nostalgic. We have all lost toys along the way to adulthood. Most of us kept a special few back, but as we view these toys as sort of sentient (burn a beloved childhood toy or rip it apart, I dare you), them staying together also felt very touching and important at the end of 3, even though some may have thought he would be better off as an heirloom. To these people 4 didn't really add anything. To them, the story was over. Giving your toys up to the next generation is the final act of an adult. Even worse, these viewers watched Woody get rejected in favour of a pile of garbage and forgotten several times. This is a punch in the gut to any person, who has handed their beloved toy off to a child in the hopes it would make this special child just as happy.
I don't hate 4, but I would still prefer it didn't exist.
I agree too! I always felt like something was off, like I just wasn't as moved by Toy Story 4... and I couldn't figure out why... And he put it perfectly into words for me.
I agree. Toy Story 4 was an unnecessary, cash cow no one asked for
I agree with Alan about Toy Story 4. It's not that I don't like it, but it does feel like a totally different movie than the others. Kind of like the last few Pirates movies. At World's End just seemed to tie the trilogy up so well, it felt odd for the others to continue on and they just didn't have the same magic.
People say it's an epilogue and not that I don't understand that, but I don't think getting Bo back and seeing some magic come from it was worth essentially giving us a film that had to go through so many loops and assumptions to make the story worth. Like, by the logic of the story, couldn't Bonnie just as easily remember Woody one day and be shocked that he isn't around if we're talking about the fickleness of children? And don't get me started on how Buzz is treated. That aspect of the film gets worse and worse the more I think about it, and the others being minor accessories to the whole journey makes the breakup at the end not really have the same weight. It worked in 3 when we had a tale that encompassed the whole crew in the journey and made things going the way they did by the end all the more emotional as opposed to them just being there in 4 and it only working BECAUSE of the older films, not because this one actually had them get that wrapped up in the journey.
I agree, it undid a lot of what they set up.
In my opinion Toy Story 4 was the incorrect title. If it had been called “Woody” or even “Woody’s Roundup” (since it really is about his ending) it would have vibes more. The movie was very much focused on Woody in a way the other movies weren’t
@@motherplayer I find the problem with the treatment of Buzz is Pixar's enthusiasm for "Space Ranger" Buzz, causing them to go so far as to replace him with that version of him in the third movie. In the first, it worked as part of a character arc. In the second, it genuinely works really well as a sort of "confronting your past self" kind of thing, even if he is far more aggressive (hi Hiyoko).
Then you have 4, when they drop that, but replace it with the inner voice thing (hi Kiibo), robbing him of a lot of his agency.
@@aionicthunder Even moreso, folks that justify that decision based on the reset from 3, even though afterwards he still felt like Buzz, and let's not forget the shorts after the film where he still felt right and the movie does point out still happened given the cameo and all. Sure did take a long while for him to get stupid then and somehow forget that he should know what that button does and means, given the context from the VERY FIRST FILM.
What really gets me in "that" scene is you are forced to watch each one of the characters separately realise that they are going to die and all of their friends are going to die too. Going from panic and looking for a way out to just utter disbelief that this is the end and not really knowing how to react so just holding on and waiting for it to end. It breaks me every time I see it!
omg exactly! The scene makes me cry every time! The way they slowly band together and join hands as the end is coming. 😭💔
Toy Story 3 was deeply personal to me. It came out the same year I was starting college and I felt it was a story about how we have to leave childdhood behind and grow up. Then I found that even as an adult, it's okay to enjoy things from your childhood by finding a few people who still played Yu-Gi-Oh!
Sometimes, moving into adulthood means getting your face stomped in by Ishizu Tearlaments LMAO
The look on Jono’s face when Alan asks him what “buttcrack poor” is… I can see he was just dying to be asked to define that. 😂
Alan even slightly hesitated when he saw Jono's face 🤣 he knew something wild was going to come out of his mouth.
I suggested this in the comments of the Disney Romance rankings, Cinema Friendship Rankings. So, basically, friendships ranked from Outright Toxic to Genuinely Healthy. And I still think that could be a potentially interesting episode.
One of the biggest things about the Toy Story movies is that many of us were in Andy's age range when the first Toy Story came out, then as we grew older, so did Andy in the movies, but it was more than that, as those of us who watched the Toy Story movies grew up and (hopefully) matured, we got to see all the characters in the series grow up and mature with us, even giving us goals to shoot for in our relationships with others.
I'd love to see a Cinema Friendship Rankings. Top of my list would be the Ice Age crew.
which Disney friendship would you say is toxic for example?
@@yourlittleinsomniac5369 I've seen some people argue that Snow White's friendship with the 7 dwarves is actually kind of toxic. They cite things like speaking condescending to the dwarves, but it's hard to notice due to her "sweet" voice and manner of speaking.
I think Samewise would easily take the number one slot. Like the idea though!
@@yourlittleinsomniac5369 maybe Flynn Rider and his... Accomplices? (Can't remember their names)
Atlantis. The general guy and the blond lady?
Ezma and Kronk!!! Not Disney... But still
Pachi and Cuzco...
Dory and Marlin(at first)
Hades and his cronies
Unfortunately, I've never had good luck with friends. They act promising and endearing at first, but every single time, someone new comes along and that "friend" leaves me for a more interesting person.
I've only had one great friendship in my life. I aspire to be the friend only one person has been to me. To never leave, no matter what.
You two touch my heart! 😭
Do you still have that person?
@@basilcook4280 Yes, although sadly we both moved, so it's a long distance friendship now.
I dont mean to make assumptions here but you know people can have multiple friends right? You can be close to multiple people in life
Nothing in that comment suggests that they don’t know people can have multiple friends. You do that when they say “every single time someone knew comes along and they “friend” leaves me for a more interesting person.” It very likely they mean that literally and isn’t “you can only be my friend and no one else’s.
Well you have one good friendship, so I would still consider that good luck. I've pretty much lost all the childhood/teenagehood "friends" I made, whether physically or emotionally, to the point that I believed that I was cursed with loneliness. I've come to hate the word "friend". Now, I have three great companions who I call my siblings (because chosen family are better than 'friends' IMO) but I only truly met them in my adulthood. It's probably better this way, because as an adult, one's personality is less likely to change so there's less drama once you figure out how the other person is like.
Good video!
I agree with Alan on this one. I see John's point, and it makes sense that sometimes you just pivot to other things, but to me it didn't feel like a pivot ever happened. Bonnie is clearly the same age as TS3, so very little time has passed, and it's like Woody's entire set of values are just different from the start (not opposite, just clearly "moved over a few steps" if that makes sense).
One other thing to note, and I'm sure you both recall, Buzz is just dumb in TS4. He wasn't the most logical in the first three, but he was very tactile and quick witted, and then suddenly in TS4 he can never think of solutions. He just presses his buttons and acts like it's a magic 8 ball.
There are some other issues too, like most of the original cast being sidelined for us to spend time with new characters. Not all bad, but the first three did that better in my opinion. Still not a 'bad' movie, but definitely my least favorite.
Thank you for all the content, I'm a big fan.
I guess they should have made Bonnie somewhat older, but I think they thought the Forky storyline would not work if she was older. But maybe they should have updated the design a bit.
But I personally love Toy Story 4 more than 3 overall. Even if 3 had great moments and it was made people exactly my age (my mother however threw away my toys after I moved out and pretended she didn’t for years, I have trauma! I have ended up collecting limited edition dolls due to that).
Can't believe you guys didn't go deeper in that incinerator scene. THAT is the best example on how to support a friend: no cliché words or empty conversations... Your silence and presence 100% can be extremely powerful when you want to support a friend.
I'm sure they were counting on a stud like you to fill in the blanks and share what you think. You are 100% right.
@@edgardionicio202 big agree!!
Definitely
My mom passed away last week surrounded by friends and family as we watched her take her final breath and her heart stop. The incinerator scene from Toy Story 3 always made me emotional and cry but now in a whole new way. I’m glad she wasn’t alone in her final moments and I hope she felt loved, safe and at peace.
I'm so sorry about your mother. I hope you find peace
It's beautiful that she was surrounded by her loved ones, not many can be so lucky. I'm so sorry for your loss. I know I'm just a stranger on the internet and the beginning is too fresh for any of us who have lost a loved one but I hope it'll become easier for you as the years go by to remember the good moments of her with fondness. Sending good thoughts your way.
OMG so sorry for your loss. Damn, I wish I could give you a hug.
My grandmother passed away 8 years ago. Her last wish was to see her whole family (all her sons, their wifes + her granchildren) and after she met everyone she could pass away in peace.
R.I.P to your mother. It's perfect to know that in your last moments you can be with people and know you are loved even through infinity and beyond.
After binge watching the movies a couple months ago, I talked about it with my sister and we agreed that the fourth movie was about Woody's arc of putting himself first, because all throughout the first three movies, despite everything he goes through, Woody puts Andy first to the point were he doesn't get along with the other toys because of it (it's more evident in the third movie). And then the fourth movie gives Woody his own liberty of doing what he wants instead of what his kid wants because Bonnie didn't value him the same way with the other toys
I do think its inconsistent that Bonnie didn't value him in the fourth movie the same way in the third movie, but then again, she's a kid and so was Andy, and Andy did kind of put Woody on the backburner to make room for Buzz in the first movie.
Yes! I hated that they broke up the gang, but it was such a good arc for Woody, and we got to see his best friend support his decision and cheer him on. Sad but sweet.
@@sarahparker7439 It was a fine arc, but there were some skipped steps in not just Bonnie but in the characters and states of Woody and Buzz that feel ignored. Why does he value what he was so much when we saw him accept and appreciate a similar change in the first movie. Why is Buzz so lost and dopey? These are some of the things that maybe should have been addressed or fleshed out.
Thanks so much for this episode everyone involved! And particular thanks to Jon for sharing your experience regarding the passing of your mom. I lost two friends very close to me in a car accident in October and I’ve felt kinda trying to explain to people that line of when I do/don’t tell people about it. But it helps to know that it’s a normal thing, and to hear others honest experiences with losing a loved one. My heart aches a little bit watching this video and knowing that I’ve had such close friends and they’re not here any more, but it also healed a little bit. Thank you all so much for that, and for all that you do! I’ve learned so much about film, and the human condition, these last few years because of you guys!!
Thank you for sharing. Your story and praise for our work mean so much!
Very well said. Thank you for sharing. ❤ Please accept my condolences for your loss. I hope you can find comfort and the strength you need especially on the days when your grief is particularly difficult. Grief never leaves you, it changes you and becomes a part of you.
Toy Story is probably one of my most anticipated movies for Cinema Therapy to look into. This and HTTYD feels like the best portrayal of what friendship is, and it is a topic that i wish Cinema Therapy would analyse cuz everyone experiences friendships, one way or the other.
If u don’t mind me asking what is HTTYD? Is it how to train your dragon?
@Bully Maguire 🅥 STOP GO AWAY
@@andrewkuhl8273 yep it is
@@chubbyanimalenthusiast70 You bullied bully maguire into going away? :o
the las HTTYD undid all the premise of the first two, overcoming things together, dragons and viking working together, the last part made no sense for me...
Who could tell that a bunch of toys holding hands while in an incinerator would get me scared. And then seeing the owner of those toys giving them up to a little girl would make cry.
We shouldn't have known that Pixar wouldn't "kill off" these characters, but the scene was so wonderfully done that it completely sold the mortal peril. I remember being in the theater and seriously thinking the movie was going to end with the gang getting incinerated as the movie fades to black.
Then, they paid off a joke from two movies prior. THE CLAW!
Pure genius filmmaking.
@@Techydad I still recall my thought process watching that scene for the first time. A couple of scenes before the actual incinerator I was telling myself "It's Pixar! Toy Story's a family movie and a cash cow! They aren't gonna kill off the toys, they'll be fine."
It's when Woody, who has been determined to find a solution to everything the whole movie, accepts his fate and takes Buzz's hand that my jaw dropped and i thought "Oh my god they're actually gonna do it." Had me right in the last moment.
@@IdoMuffin for me it was Bullseye, I have a huge thing for him, and it broke me. But then I started bawling with Buzz and Woody. I actually had to stop the movie ( couldn't watch it on cinema because I was really busy at that time) and after crying for several minutes, finally recomposed myself enough to keep watching. Then cried for days after the ending.
I was the friend who couldn't be helped, and still kind of am. I was diagnosed with a chronic illness, one that I will not get better from, and I will be in pain for the foreseeable future. There's nothing anyone can do to fix that, and nothing anyone can do to make me feel better. It took a while for the people close to me to get to the point that they could do the trash compactor scene. They wanted to help so bad that they didn't realize that they just needed to be there. I just needed someone to hold my hand and breathe with me.
i send you love
I can't just scroll by:
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I hope you're doing well
You're in my thoughts tonight
22:30 Its funny, the parts where Jonathan and Alan talked about their deep friendship actually hit me a lot harder than the Toy Story scenes got Alan. I wish I had a friend who I could go through happy, but also sad/hard times through. Like to be there for each other like that, throughout tough and good things, thats something we all strive to have. Its fine to have more superficial buddies and at this point in time it’d be nice if I had any friends, but still that sort of friendship sounds pretty amazing to have, even if it means having the arguments and difficulties along with the good. I think last time I had a meaningful relationship like that was about 7 or so years ago when i was still in late middle-school, whereas now im leaving uni, and had hoped to find something like that here.
"Laughter through tears"
So true. I remember a quote from Whedon that was something along the lines of "Make it dark, make it tragic, make it hurt, but for god's sake tell a joke afterwards", and I think that's such a valuable lesson for filmmakers. Absolutely right that Pixar nails this in everything they produce.
he probably learned that from working with Bluth, lol.
God I loved Titan AE.
@@abigails4088 YES! Titan AE ranks as one of my favourite films, and SUPER under-rated IMHO.
Whenever anyone asks me to name anything, I still respond with "I think I'll call it... Bob." 😉
Can we all agree that Sarah McLaughlin's song in TS2 about Jessie is ABSOLUTELY heartbreaking?
Music can and will work in animation, but it really needs to hit the right tone. Sarah did that.
Oh my gosh YES. I always, ALWAYS tear up when that scene plays. Granted I can get very emotional with music but that song DESTROYED ME
That one, the beginning of "more than a dream" from Cinderella 3, "Our town" from Cars and the song that plays when the old lady is giving up the fox in the Fox and the Hound (the saddest movie of all time) will ALWAYS haunt me as the saddest songs I ever heard as a kid.
Written by Randy Newman! Give the guy some credit, Alan
Yes it's the scene that comes to mind when I think of Toy Story 2
Agreed. When something like that happened to me the song was a comfort and I'd just sob for hours listening to it lol
Toy story 3 is my fav for that hellfire scene alone. To show friends stay together no matter what even through hell itself.
Friendships ending tends to hurt a lot more than romantic because 90% of the time, it's a slow burn death that is never actually defined, In romantic breakups, it's a "we're over" or divorce. With friendships, there's none of that as you slowly watch a person you once would give the world for becomes someone you distantly know from memory
You watch them slowly replace you with someone else, prioritizing them over you. They start getting irrationally angry or annoyed at you for no apparent reason. You make plans with them only for them to "forget" on the day or blow you off for something else last minute. Visits, gifts, calls, texts, they all slowly decrease until you one day send it and they don't return the favor. You bend over backwards to help them at the snap of a finger, but they blow you off when you ask for help in return. You talk with them, try to make up, but they're disinterested and/or promise to change but nothing happens. You want to keep going because of your history with them and you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, to be a good friend, because it hurts to think that they're distancing themselves from you
I remember watching Toy Story 3 in theaters and I still remember so many people gasping at the trash incinerator scene. When Pixar wants you to feel, they know exactly what buttons to push!
Also, I agree with Alan on Toy Story 4. Visually, it’s incredible. But story wise, it just feels like a repeat.
I'll never forget seeing 3 at midnight opening night and the whole crowd of 15-25ish year olds (my bro was the youngest one there at 12), absolutely losing it, screaming and clapping at "The clawww!" highlight of the experience for me. That crowd was hype!!!
A repeat that undoes what most of the first three movies set up.
I still can't watch that incinerator scene without crying, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW they'll all be fine. The martians were a great call back!
I saw it when I was 10 years old with my brother. We walked in , no trailers seen, no idea what we were in for
It was the same way at the incinerator scene in my theater when the third one came out. The amount of gasps and “noooo”’s when it looked like they were done and then cheers and laughs at “the claaaaaaw”. It’s one thing I’ve missed about these pandemic times: for 90 minutes, you don’t need to say a word, everyone just knows how you’re feeling cause they’re feeling the exact same way.
I wanna see a video on Wolf Children. It has a ton of stuff in it to cover from grief, growing up different, choosing your path in life that's different from what your family wanted, accepting those differences and that people want different things in life that may seem unorthodox. At the very least you'll cry like children.
Edit: Also read the lyrics to the ending song for added cry factor.
Yes, I love Wolf Children. I want to see them do more Japanese movies like that and Howls Moving Castle.
I love that movie! It's not what I usually watch, but I really liked the plot, the conflicts, how the two siblings changed as they grew up. And you felt for their mother, too. With it being a mostly family friendly movie, that's an interesting choice for a main protagonist.
Oh and the community energy this film has is just ( chefs kiss)
GOD I love wolf children! It's such a beautiful and sad film
Agreed!
It's a great movie. There's a lot of stuff in there.
I am a teacher, and I love to use Disney and Pixar movies for the specific emotional needs of my students. I cracked out Balto during the pandemic, The Lion King and James and the Giant Peach when one of my students had lost their dad, Hercules for persistence and humility, Mulan just because it's my favorite lol. I'm happy to add Toy Storys to the list for friendships.
I love toy story, as a lot of people do, I remember watching toy story three in theaters when I was like 6. I remember the exact moment I saw that they were making a fourth toy story. I loved three and totally agree with Alan, when I walked out of theaters after three I was amazed it felt like the end to an amazing story. When I walked out of theaters after watching four I was underwhelmed.
While I understand why four was important for woody’s ark I just felt that the fourth movie was completely unnecessary. When I saw the ad my older self immediately thought “What? Why another one!” The ending didn’t hit as hard because I had already thought that it was over
The unfortunate thing is that there's probably gonna be more because "Marketing" and "Toy Story sells!"
I felt that Toy Story 4 told a different type of story on what makes life relevant to an individual. It was a journey for Woody to find relevance again after he lost being the leader of the toys. He discovered that being a toy to children in the playground who might not always have toys fulfilled a need he didn't realize he had. He discovered it wasn't being the leader that gave him purpose but bringing joy to the children. I think that this made the loss of the friends more poignant at the end because it was a separation, but also that Woody knew they understood and were happy for him.
This is definitely a thing that happens with Empty Nesters, which a lot of Toy Story is a metaphor for parenthood. You know, in the first one Andy's a young kid and we're introduced to this world and how toys care for kids, 2 is the allure of "what if I hadn't had children, would I have had more potential in my life?", 3 is realizing that your kid's all grown up and leaving for their own life now, and 4 is definitely "now that i'm an empty nester, what is my purpose in life", and it also comes right in on the timeline-parents who watched the first one with their kids when it came out, are almost definitely full empty nesters by the time Toy Story 4 rolls around. It's definitely a different story, but I think it's definitely focusing more strongly on the specifically parental angle of the narrative than just happy fun toy adventures, which is why it feels very tonally different from the others.
@@siriuspope3552 that's such an insightful way of looking at it!
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Jesse might be a good character to talk about if you guys ever tackle abandonment!
Yes pleeeeeeease!!
She was Spinel from Steven Universe before Spinel, only less Yandere
I remember seeing the trailer for the first Toy Story when I was around 5 or 6. My jaw was on the floor because I'd never seen anything like it. Looking back, it's easy to see how basic the first film looks in comparison to Pixar's later films, but everytime I watch Buzz first say 'To infinity and beyond!' before 'falling with style,' I'm instantly transported back to that moment in time where my child mind was blown away.
I think Toy Story 4 really exemplified Woody’s growth. In the first one, he is so terrified of being a lost toy that he weeps in the parking lot, so to get to the point where he becomes a lost toy and decides to use that selflessly is huge.
You're joking right? Woody was never a lost toy in 4, having Woody leave Bonnie and his family he promised to be with for a woman he hadn't seen in years is the most horrible thing to do with him, not to mention how dumb he is throughout the movie so Bo can shine
It's disgraceful
@@ninjanibba4259 and also Bo is abusive.
Now he entered an abusive relationship and has no family or friends he can go to if he needs support
@@littlelady9801 sad ain't it?
People falling for, or even knowingly agreeing with, toy story 4's messaging is saddening. Toy Story 4 has quote toxic messages, and blatant disrespect for the toy story community (Josh Cooley actively made fun of theorists and fans)
it shows growth but it also is completely against the premise set in all 3 movies prior, which were all tweaks of ‘You are a toy, toys are meant to be played with, toys are meant to be there for children.’
1 is Buzz learning he’s a toy for Andy, 2 is Woody relearning he’s a toy for Andy, and 3 is all of them learning that they’re made for not just Andy but any kid. 4 is definitely good but it really feels like more of a spinoff than a true successor in the way 2+3 did.
Have you ever thought about doing gamora and nebula they have sibling rivalry’s and bad parents making them worse
Their relationship is a textbook example of a narcissistic abuse tactic of a parent who selects one golden child (Gamora) and one scapegoat (Nebula). It would probably be a good villain therapy on the reading of thanos as a malignant narcissist.
@@boserboser6870 that’s exactly what I’m talking about
OMG yes they need to do that!
Brilliant idea!
Do this one!
Toy Story 2 is my fave too. The action, the drama, the heartfelt story of Jessy (Jesse?), and I could really follow Woody's decision to go to Japan with them without it feeling out of character. Really an amazing sequel.
JESSIEEEE
Her song always makes me cry. When I was a kid I would go and look for my older toys and hug them 😓
I agreed up until I watched a series on why TS4 ruined everything the other weekend, and now I can't stop thinking about how he just does that in the even numbered films.
1 - Get back to Andy.
2 - Get back to And-Oh wait no Japan is more import-Oh no it's not because trickery and a motive that doesn't make sense let's get back to Andy.
3 - Let's maybe get back to Andy...? OK yeah Sunnyside isn't good let's get back to Andy-Oh passed to Bonnie, OK.
4 - OK, Sporky, we have to stay with Bonn- BO. BO PEEP. PEEEEEEEEEEP I MISSED YOU.
Also he ALMOST LEFT WITH HER AT THE START OF 4. Ehh???
But 2 will be special for some reason. But Woody just "I can't go. I can't abandon these guys, without me they'll go back into storage"...?
First, I agree my favorite is 2. Second, cool pfp my dude :)))
I totally agree with Alan that the fourth one was totally unnecessary and even undid stuff from the third one! That was exactly how i felt after watching the fourth movie. Also, I 100% agree with Jonathan that the second one was the best. I’ve never felt so validated before 😂
My bestfriend & I watched this together at work. And the way you explained and expressed what a friendship should be.. we just kept looking at each other and nodding.
The relationships and attachments in the Toy Story movies are really quite unique in storytelling. The idea that as we grow, we change and our attachments to things like Toys or the nostalgia we have for them as adults can really impact how we relate to people in our lives. Although the latter part is mostly only touched upon.
TS 2 is definitely my favourite. Jessie's story of being abandoned by her closest friend/human was something that many of us have to deal with: how we learn to move on from a friendship/relationship, especially when there is no closure to be had. It was really amazing to see that portrayed in such a delicate, elegant way in a child's movie.
It's why even as an adult, I still come back to these movies.
You made it sooooo right, i really enjoyed ts when child but then re-watch i had a really different experience like so relatable and like i didn't get these when i was kid
i never cried harder in a toy story movie than i did during "when she loved me." even at the end of 3.
@@dietotaku same - every time 🥹
I think that’s why I really love TS2 the most. I really connected w/ Jessie
Alan: "Aw, you're doing THIS to me? Why are you doing this to me?"
Jono: "Because the fans demand your tears as a sacrifice."
True friendship right there XD
The fourth movie gives me mixed feelings. I really liked the humor and overall dialogue in it, especially the bits with Forky (who was just a little too relatable). And visually it was probably the best of the movies. But I still think that Toy Story was best as its original trilogy. Like Alan said, the ending was very, very clearly the ending. And it was the perfect ending. It was beautiful, left whole theatres in tears thinking about the fate of their favorite childhood toys, and then brought it around full circle again. So yeah, while I appreciate the fourth on its own, I think the trilogy would have done just fine without it too.
Oh yeah 😄😄
And i absolutely #crywithalan gets me every single time
Toy Story 4 feels more like a separate art piece to me, Almost like a really well written tech demo in a sense. Almost in a way to show just how far we've come, and doing it with characters we know and love. It almost feels like a love letter to the Toy Story franchise if that makes sense. You can tell a lot of love and passion went into making this simply stunning movie, and I think that's what counts the most
I loved Toy Story 4, but I will admit I did see it before I saw Toy Story 3. The reason why I loved it was because Buzz clearly saw what Woody needed and let his friend go because that was what his friend needed. It was such a beautiful example of friendship. I think it helped that at the time my daughter had classmates that were examples of bad friends - possessive and jealous. I got to use this movie as an example of how a friend will be happy for you when you are happy, even if it means being separated.
Can I just say, on the topic of friendships, that Jon and Alan's relationship is just one of the best things ever to me?
I know very VERY few people who get to experience the kind of friendship they have. They're so good for eachother and compliment eachother so perfectly. It makes me both jealous and really happy for them. Lol
Same! I'd love to talk with them about friendship! I had a friend that I knew for over 20 yrs and she ended our friendship online and because I was depressed and pretty much blamed me for why the friendship ended. The message was well written and had a lot of gas lighting parts to it. (Asked my therapist to look at it because I blamed myself for almost 2 yrs)
One thing I disliked about the fourth movie is that it didn't seem right to separate Buzz from Woody. They'd been through so much together, and it seemed a little out of character to split them up indefinitely.
I think it's because the story isn't about friendships anymore, it's about Woody finding his own way and Buzz's role as a friend is to learn to let go if you know that your friend knows that they'll be happier if they chose their own path.
I think Number 4 was very much answering the question about what happened to Bo.
Trouble was. It wasn't the same character. I wish they had actually story used that more. That she was a newer model who had heard about Woody. Or I dunno, that Bo figurine has a cowpoke/farmer type that's built into her lore.
I loved their chemistry. Way better than original Bo. It's a nice vision of how our friendships and relationships change as we get older. Like Jono and Alan. It would have also kept the philosophies that Inside Out and even Story 3 had about family and friend love.
I agree with you. I grew up watching Woody and Buzz’s friendship. I think they should’ve stayed together. I understand that concept of friendships drifting apart but like you said it seemed out of character…after everything that happened. I think they should’ve stayed together and that is one of the reasons I don’t like the 4th one.
TOTALLY AGREE!!
also Buzz was completely nuked as a character
Omg, como persona hispanohablante, no saben cómo adoro que existan los subtitulos en Español en sus vídeos, me hace sentir afortunada de poder entender sus charlas. Esto es tan fresco y bonito, como se meten en el guión, las bromas, el como son tan abiertos con la audiencia...
Muchas gracias
watching this as I prepare to leave town for one of my dearest friends weddings, as someone who didn't grow up with any real friends, this is making me so thankful for the real friendships I have as an adult. As far as looks, alan is the Woody & Jonathan is the Buzz.
I really like Johnathan's point about TS4 showing an ending to an era or a pivot from what you identified as. I'm a retired Marine, I have been out for about 5 years now and I've had to make the transformation into something new and different for me and my life. I had to let go of an identity that was a part of me for so long and make a new one for myself. It hasn't been easy and it is still a work in progress but I've found myself again. I've fallen in love with myself again. I think that TS4 shows that that is okay to do and I thin it is important for kids to see and learn about so that they don't have to struggle with it when it happens to them.
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I'm on Alan's side wrt Toy Story 4. It's gorgeously animated and has great moments, but it didn't feel necessary. It also minimized the rest of the toys and I've heard theories that part of this was to make additional movies easier with a smaller cast (and being able to cut out Tim Allen)
That’s fair. I’ve heard people say that they feel that Toy Story 4 is more like an epilogue rather than a final ending. The rest of the toys’ arcs have mostly been resolved in the first 3 movies, so that’s probably another reason why they focused on Bo and the new toys. Still an enjoyable movie to me, but perfectly fine if other people prefer to stop at the third movie.
What great moments? Sure, some of the jokes were funny, but the writing and emotional moments were utter dog shit.
Yeah 4 wasn't needed. Andy going to college and giving the toys to Bonnie was a great ending.
Im sorry, I think I'm outta the loop here, but why specifically would they want to cut out Tim Allen? Did he do something? I straight up don't pay attention to celebrities so I genuinely don't know if something happened.
@@alexcurrie4514 it’s because he’s a conservative and for some reason your political views now play a part of whether or not you can get hired as an actor instead of your acting ability.
I’ve gotta say, I’m with Alan on Toy Story 4. True friendship is filled with love and I think it’s wonderful to see it showcased in this way. I didn’t fully appreciate Toy Story 3 when I first saw it (granted, I was 8-9), but it truly is a beautiful display of the human experience. I’d love to see more on friendship. I often find difficulty in developing them and with communication. Also, I’d love to see something on Mr. Holland’s Opus. There are so many things to examine there and it makes me cry every time. Thanks for another beautiful video!
god when you mentioned that principles of couples therapy also work in friendships? that kinda got me. i had a 'best friend' for over 15 years and I never really examined how much that friendship messed me up until my therapist flat out told me to view it as an abusive relationship minus the romantic aspect. i feel like it's really common for people to consider friendship less important than romance and it is not true. both positively and negatively.
I love how Buzz's arc in the first movie teaches us that a small, deep impact makes for just as valuable a life as a wide ranging one. One of the major themes of the series is how you don't have to be a hero to many. Being a hero to a few can be just as fulfilling.
It's so good to hear you guys talk about how valuable friendship/platonic love is
Lately I've felt like people weren't valuing platonic love anymore, simply because I got oversaturated on seeing romantic love and shipping in media and fandoms, etc and saw some backlash over the idea that a fictional person might not be into romance
As someone who isn't into romance at all myself, seeing people get upset that a relationship might be "only" platonic hurt and nearly made me spiral into thinking that maybe people who do experience romantic feelings wouldn't value a friendship with me at all, simply because I wouldn't want anything romantic
Wanting to "be MORE than friends" started sounding to me like "What we have is worthless unless you let me kiss you on the mouth" and even though I luckily don't have anyone who'd be interested in a romantic relationship with me rn, thinking about this possibly being how most people felt about platonic vs romantic relationships put me in a bit of a funk
That's why I'm so happy to see this video now talking about how important good, platonic friendships are and what it actually means to have a good, platonic friendship
I've been on the other side of this. I've had a VERY hard crush on this girl. Like, thinking about her all The time, feeling things I've never felt before, enjoying so much our time together and so on. We made better writers of each other and she helped me to overcome some insecurities. But the catch is: she wasn't into me. And not in a "friendzone" kind of way. She stand by me and supports me as I do, but she doesn't feel anything romantic for me. It took me some time to accept it (and shit happening between us) but today I'm certain than just because we'll never be a couple it doesn't or friendship is not a wonderful, beautiful thing.
I'm also not into her anymore. It could be a factor.
One thing that always annoys me is how people always romanticize friendships. Especially if the friends are young or of the opposite gender. Not all things in life have to be romantic love.
13:09 Honestly, one of the lines I love the most from any of the Toy Story movies is Mr. Potato Head's response to Buzz talking about them throwing Woody out the back of the moving truck. "Oh you had to bring that up..." Just that understood feeling of "please don't bring up my past mistakes. I feel bad enough about them without you pointing them out."
Oh you guys NEED to talk about Rogue One. I'd love to hear your take on it.
I think both the takes on Toy Story 4 are fair and reasonable. When I heard that another toy story was coming out, I pretty much went in feeling the same way about it "undoing" a lot of what the third movie did. For me it felt like such a perfect ending with the right amount of closure. But when I actually watched TS4, I was overwhelmed with emotion (because Pixar makes sure you're in your feelings by the end). With Toy Story being released in '95, a lot of the people who watched it for the first time are now well into adulthood. And it gave such a powerful message that I felt I needed to hear. Sometimes you really do dedicate most of your life to something and for a while it is what you're "meant" to do. But overtime it's possible for your life, your desires, and your "purpose" to change, which can be extremely scary because you know in order to pursue this new thing, you'll be leaving something else in the process (friends, family, job, etc) . Not sure if you can tell but TS4 won me over pretty hard 😅
It is fine, I think I wasn't really eager of watching this movie and I have succesfully avoid it for a while now, because of this fear and the critics on it, however, once again I need to face my fears and watch it to form my own opinion.
Plus, what you said hits close home to me. So I might like this movie. Unironically speaking, Toy Story 3 and maybe Toy Story 4 would be my favorite movies. I'll have to go and watch it to see what's my take on it.
With having adored Toy Story 1 and 2 as a kid, them being a big part of my formative years, Toy Story 3 was my own closure because I was Andy. These were my childhood and the finale of 3 was about passing these experiences and joys on to a new generation. So I put off seeing 4 for years because I already had my closure. 4 is a good story, but not my Toy Story.
4 is definitely more for parents and the experience of being empty nesters and finding purpose. I think that's why it feels so tonally... awkward when put in juxtaposition with the rest of the quadrilogy? Toy Story 4 in specific isn't really about the experience of being a kid, it's about being a parent.
honestly, toy story four is my favorite one. I didn't even know it until you guys started talking about it but I see it in the way jono does. unlearning the things that make you and realizing that you can be anything. I thought that was beautiful
You guys are just like me and my sister. She works in medicine and I'm an artist and writer, so we view things and compare things from a scientific perspective and an artistic perspective, respectively, and it's always different but complementary. And then we start singing the same wrong words to the same exact song, just like you two and A Whole New Jonno. It's beautiful. I love you guys. Thanks, Internet Bros!!!
That's awesome! Thank you!
Regarding my thoughts on Toy Story 4, I felt that the rewarding thing at the end for Woody is not only that he gets to be with Bo, but they're spending their days helping other toys find a child to be loved by. They started that with Gabby Gabby, and they've been doing it with other toys that have been lost or sitting on the shelves in fairgrounds forever (because fairground games are practically designed to be unbeatable, so the toys remain unsold). I don't see it as ABANDONING the philosophy of "Life only worth being if being loved by a child", so much as it is a challenge of that philosophy for Woody to discover a new purpose AND he extends that philosophy to other toys that haven't gotten that same opportunity.
Why is being with Bo from Toy Story 4 a good thing?
@@ForrestFox626 Because she's been his girlfriend/romantic partner since the very first movie, before he even met Buzz, and they were separated against their will in Toy Story 3, and he loves and misses her deeply? :/
@@ForrestFox626 Because he gets to be with the love of his life, helping other toys find happiness?
@@ForrestFox626 Why wouldn't it be a good thing?
@@rose_garden666 It had been 9 years, she's clearly a different person and she berates him constantly in 4
I literally grew up with Toy Story. Andy was depicted as the same age throughout the films as I was. I cried like a baby when I saw TS3. Still stands as my 2nd favorite animated franchise of all time.
I can't think of an animated movie series with enough sequels to be considered a franchise that didn't also tank because of said sequels. Except for maybe the Lego Movies, but I don't think most people would rank them above the Toy Story films. So, I give up. What's your #1 animated franchise?
Really felt the "your sucess doesn't mean I'm failing." I've been so jealous of my disabled cousin because she lives in her own apartment on disability and doesn't have to work. While I have to live with roommates and carpool just to afford my bills because I make less a month at a full time job than she does on disability. I've resented her because I work so hard and still feel like I'm not any closer to being where I want to be. This year, I've stopped resenting her because I've matured, and while I still have roommates and carpool to work and only keep about two hundred of my 1k a month money, I am in a better headspace than I was a year ago. I have the ability to do things my cousin never will, and while her life may seem easy to me, I understand now that her life isn't easier, it's just different. Now I'm on my way to saving up for a car and an apartment of my own, on top of trying to start a family. I'm moving on in my life in ways my cousin will never be able to. She can't drive or have a family because of her mental handcap and disabilities. She lives on her own, but she still has to have her mom and sisters take care of her, buy her groceries and take her to doctor appointments. I respect my cousin's choice to feel independent in the only way she can, and I don't envy or resent her for being so independent. I've learned to praise her for it.
Toy Story 2 was my favorite by far. New friends, everything works out. Toy Story 3...I was sobbing for a full half hour after watching it. I'm tearing up right now just thinking about it. I don't like goodbyes...and Andy giving his toys to Bonnie...I had such a mix of emotions. I was glad that they were going to get played with again, but knowing that they might never see Andy again...it was heartbreaking.
I agree with many of the other commenters in saying that Toy Story 4 felt like a different movie to me. The first three felt to me like the writers seriously thought about the problems a toy could face. Getting replaced, getting stolen, and your kid outgrowing you and not playing with you anymore. Andy going off to college in 3 was a VERY nice touch. Toy Story 4...I'm not sure what the focus was.
tell me about it. ts4 ruined the perfect finale 3 was. my brother & i r twins & toy story 2 came out two days after we turned five. i dont think we ever saw it in theaters. jessies story made me cry every time when i had it on vhs. im not positive but i think it was the first time i ever cried at a movie. its gonna haunt emily 4 the rest of her life! the guilts gonna eat her alive & it probably has by now! well its her loss
In Toy Story 3, Andy (and his mom really) had already gotten rid of almost all of his toys anyway. They were either thrown away or sold at a garage sale or donated. They had been losing friends for a long time.
I think the Toy Story movies are beautiful because of how they mirror life in that nothing ever stays the same. Most movies have convoluted plots and events that jump start the whole show and none of the events would've happened without the arbitrary (and often extraordinary) precipitating event, but in Toy Story every single plot feels like it is something that could've reasonably happened without an alignment of the stars occurring. In the first, Andy gets a new toy. Totally reasonable, hes still a kid and still gets into new things and gets toys based on those franchises. Makes sense. Toy Story 2, a vintage toy collector goes to yard sales looking to buy something valuable for cheap then mark it up for resale. This is actually extaordinarily common. There are countless people who frequent yard sales and flea markets, always on the prowl for something that is actually very valuable that someone wants to sell for very little just to get rid of it without knowing its real worth or how to capitalize on it. And Toy Story 3 was Andy's mom trying to get rid of his childhood toys to save space because hes a teenager/borderline adult going off to college and he doesn't play with them anymore. That is also reasonable. I had a million toys when I was a kid and I had almost none left by the time I moved out of my parent's house because my mom kind of strategically removed them bit by bit without my noticing over the years when she saw I didn't play with certain toys anymore. Its a very real thing, especially if they want to turn his old bedroom into another room they can use for personal use now that its no longer needed as a personal bedroom.
All of it felt very plausible. And the way you lose friends and family over time, while also gaining new ones over time, it all felt very real and very reflective of the human experience. I think Toy Story 4 was a good final movie for the series rather than Toy Story 3 because 3 ended in more of a kid's fantasy story ending that kind of alludes to things like "nothing ever REALLY changes, whats important is still there" or "just stick together and everything will be fine" and things like that, which is how children's movies often end, but it isn't true of the real world. Toy Story 4's ending felt much more genuine to me because sometimes, even when people care about each other, you have to leave each other anyway. It's not always a case of "stay with the group if you are loyal and care about the group" because life is more complicated than that. Sometimes you get pulled apart from other people, sometimes you have to make hard choices that send you down different paths, etc.
It is an even more bittersweet ending than 3, but felt real to me. Woody was so loyal and worked so incredibly hard in service to his kid and his kid's other toys for his entire existence. I'd hate to imagine ANYONE having to work that hard and under such stress for eternity until you finally break down to the point of no longer being alive. I am glad that Woody served Andy so loyally and brought him so much happiness, and i'm glad he went to the new kid and made her happy for a while as well. But I feel like Woody earned his retirement. Everything that he had been through, all the struggles and trials of his life, etc, and then he COMPLETED his job. He served his purpose. Andy grew up happy, in part, because of him. Now he could have kept going with another kid and maybe another kid after that and so on, but I think he really earned his rest. He deserves to make that next chapter of his life about him and what he wants and living with the woman he has loved all along and was separated from due to his loyalty to his kid overriding his own desires. He owed it to Andy to stay with him instead of running off with Bo then and there, but after Andy grew up, he is a free man and deserves his own happiness derived from his own goals and wishes rather than being forced to seek validation from an owner.
I liked Toy Story 4 and it's message and it's ending. I think it is the best ending for all toys because they can't be played with forever. They're going to slowly break down, get lost, etc over time and just won't last forever. It's better to think at some point they just retire and go off to seek their own adventures and live their own lives.
Enjoyed reading this a lot honestly. Made the ending of the movie 10x better and made me appreciate the series even more
I'd believe Woody leaving if he hadn't been berated by Bo Peep constantly in 4
I feel the same way about the movie! Excellent comment!
Great comment. I loved the 4th movie as well, for various reasons.
What you said about Woody really reminds me of Steve Rogers and his retirement as Captain America. Like Woody, Steve had spent his entire life in service to others (tho Woody’s service was more self serving in TS1). Both were leaders that everyone looked up to with many not knowing what they gave up to be where they were. Both needed and received a happy ending where they did something for themselves; understanding that it’s alright to live life for yourself.
I actually loved TS4 because I've always felt the "Toy" thing was super applicable to some parents coping with the realization that their kid has outgrown the early, profoundly bonded phase of the relationship when they haven't. What it feels like to be left behind when the kid goes to school, forgotten when they make friends and plans, replaced by mentors, and even to face the golden years.
TS3 was about letting the kid move on with their lives, TS4 says it's okay to move onto a new phase in YOUR life. To do something for yourself. Make new friends, find love, start over. Kind of a mid-life crisis-y thing. That beats "the beginning mirrors the end because pattern recognition" any day.
Yeah...no to all of that
Woody leaving his family for a woman that he hasn't seen in years that belittles him and degrades him is sick and horrible messaging
Woody in 4 has NEVER been this way
@@ninjanibba4259 Leaving his family? He's a forgotten toy, which means if he leaves, nothing happens to the little girl. She won't miss Woody because she doesn't care about him -- she glued eyes to a spork and that's her favorite thing. And his friends are fine, too.
The applicability for me is in his relationship with Andy. The kid moved on, now it's Woody's turn. He loved Bo, then he lost her, and then he found her again. In some ways, it's like a guy getting back together with his highschool sweetheart after his kid went to college.
But taken literally, his choices are lying behind the dresser until someone throws him out or having a future. Chosing the latter isn't "sick and horrible," I can't imagine why anyone would take it that way. Unless...
Either their dad left their mom for a younger woman when they were a kid, or they majorly ship Woody with a different toy and are bitter about it. Either way, they're watching this kids' movie *wrong*.
@@laotasurfs1110 except he wasn’t forgotten cuz she’s seen playing with him in the movie, which means like a child does, she switches playing with toys for a bit
So again, the movie has written Woody to abandon his family for a chick, what a great message for kids…oh wait…most of them already experienced this, thanks for the reminder of how terrible those kids lives are Pixar….
@@ninjanibba4259 I truly hope you're kidding.
@@laotasurfs1110 I'm really not, it's right there to see
I watched Toy Story 4 for the first time last week and I'm so glad I waited. Woody's journey in this one is deeply personal to me at this moment and is exactly what I needed. In the last year I have been struggling to realize not only that my role as a mom didn't turn out the way I had envisioned, but that what I was trying to be was not what my (now adult) kids wanted. They are moving on to do their own lives on their terms and I am beginning the next chapter with my husband who has been growing and transforming with me in marriage counseling through the pandemic. I am so grateful he is the rock I can hold onto in this storm. He is Bo Peep in this way- he has a clearer vision and can let go when he sees that there is no need to fret over something that was never going to last. I am Woody, taking a long time to let go and just now realizing that being "Andy's/Bonnie's Toy" isn't the only thing in life.
Toy Story 2 is my favorite as well. I cried buckets of tears during Jessie's scene, remembering how her human outgrew her and in the end donated her for charity.
My least favorite thing about Toy Story 4 was actually the upsetting lack of closure in the fact that the whole plot revolves around the fact that Bonnie did not value Woody like Andy did. Woody was Andy’s toy. He was *the* toy that mattered to Andy. Giving him away to Bonnie was HUGE. He wanted Bonnie to have that comfort that he had. But we see her throw him in the closet and never look at him again. All the other toy story’s were about Andy panicking that Woody wasn’t there, and now the closure they want us to hold on to is that Woody is now unwanted and taking his own wanderer path? It’s upsetting to say the least
We see her playing with him during the drive trip
I’ve never been able to put into words why I disliked the 4th movie so much but THIS explains it. Woody was such an important toy to Andy (who I like to assume was Andy’s late father’s last gift to Andy) so much so he hesitated to give him to Bonnie. I like to wonder what would happen if Andy made a surprise visit only to find Woody not there…
I think that kinda reflects reality. Bonnie never had a relationship with Woody like Andy did. So it makes sense that she had her own favorite toys that she loved to play with, that were different from Andy. Because Bonnie is not Andy. And I think that’s one of the things that Woody needed to settle with in TS4.
Yeah, I hate how little Andy giving up Woody means now thanks to Toy Story 4. How am I ever supposed to cry at Woody choosing his friends over Andy ever again? Now I know Woody chose another round of playtime over Andy, not his friends, meanwhile he was ready to let all of his friends get covered in dust mites in the attic, before allowing them to enjoy being played with in daycare (Woody didn’t know about Lotso, he only happened to be right), all of my respect for Woody lost in an instance, and all that so he can make out with a girl who lectures him and has friends and pets who lecture him.
Sorry, I always loose my cool when taking about Toy Story 4
@@rosaliamoon4525 Based on the morals Woody followed in all previous films, leaving Bonnie just because he had dust on him, was pretty selfish. Wheezy was choking on dust, yet Woody didn’t want to let him be in a yard sale, Andy was clearly done playing, but he wanted his friends in the attic, he had the chance to be immortalized with his family, beloved by all, yet he chose Andy. But one girl comes along, and all that goes out the window
My favorite Woody and Buzz moment was in the second movie when Buzz is trying to get Woody to go back with them, even directly quoting him. His line of, "Somewhere in that stuffing is a toy that told me that life's not worth living if you're not loved by a kid. And I came all this way to save that toy because I BELIEVED him" has so much kick because it was delivered with a fairly straight tone but you can tell he's at his most desperate. And BUZZ calling him out on that was what made Woody snap out of it. Because we all have that person who...we know we screwed up if they're disappointed in us. A friend, family member, a partner, their opinion means the world to us and the worst thing that could happen is feeling like we let them down.
I think what's most profound or beautiful about toy story 3 is that choice to not struggle. They were all scared, staring down death, but we always have the choice how we face the inevitable. By holding hands they said, I'm here for you, you don't have to struggle alone, we are in this together. Truly a beautiful moment
I wanna hug him so hard every time he cries....💗💗💗💗 you are such a precious person Allan we love you
I think it would be really cool to explore Sherlock Holmes and John Watson’s relationship in the “Sherlock” TV show. Their friendship goes through some pretty big rough patches and the way they get through it is very interesting and different from a lot of mainstream friendships. There’s also a lot to talk about both Sherlock’s high functioning sociopathic functioning and John Watsons psyche being affected by his time in the military. I’d love to see what you guys have to say about them :)
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Unfortunately they’ve stated that they won’t be doing shows, only movies! But they would if they could. It’s just that shows take much longer to prepare for, clip scenes from, and edit, plus they still have their day jobs 😭
Well, with the length of the episodes they could treat them like movies…and the series has ended, so it’s not like NCIS or something….let us hope, it’s such an interesting relationship! Lol
I'd love to see this with the various incarnations of this relationship in films and TV alike, would be super interesting.
I’m definitely with Alan about Toy Story 4. It’s a good movie and the story beats it covers are very interesting, but it does feel like it undoes a lot of what the first three movies established. I think the biggest culprit was Woody contemplating leaving Andy during the opening scene, planting the idea that post-movie 2, Woody already had the temptation not to be a toy anymore, leave his friends behind, and just stay with his girlfriend. And this just doesn’t align with anything that happens in TS3. If that scene had been handled differently, showing Woody still wholly devoted to Andy, which will shift once he’s not with Andy anymore, then it wouldn’t have felt so jarring, imo.
Also, Toy Story 2 is definitely the best of them, in my opinion. The characters go through different arcs, we see Buzz taking charge and offering Woody the sage advice this time; Woody brings his new friends along rather than leaving them alone again. And Stinky Pete works well as an antagonistic force that you might not see coming at first, but you see so many hints on rewatch. It’s really well done.
I agree
That by definition makes it the opposite of a good movie
@@ninjanibba4259 - TS4 is a good movie in isolation, but where I think it fails is slotting into the continuity of the other movies. I didn't like the execution of some scenes (as well as Buzz's characterization), but that doesn't mean I can objectively say the movie is bad.
@@Rikrobat I can, the movie is objectively bad
@@ninjanibba4259 - And what are your justifications for that "objective" read?
You can tell they're the best of friends with that last shot of "A whole new Jono!" No cues, no prep. Just both started singing the same thing. That's beautiful, I love seeing how much you guys love each other!
I agree with his stance on the fourth movie, but I'd like to give a little nugget of opinion on *HOW* it could have been redeemed!
Okay so first, I'm completely understanding of Alan's statement that the fourth film felt like they undid a lot of things that the third wrapped up beautifully. That being said, Woody leaving with Bo Peep *could* have very easily been satisfying if we were given the proper buildup for this.
We've watched as Woody has grown as a character, leading his fellow toys to take care of children who need them, so it makes sense that his new role could be helping toys in need find the children who need them in turn, but I think him handing off as lead toy in a different way could have really made this so much better. I'll come out and say it. He should have made Jesse lead toy! We even see in the movie he's being played with less in favor of her, she's clearly got a leader personality, and Buzz already respects and follows her lead! Her going from a supporting character role to the main would have been SUCH a satisfying handoff!
Also, I am one of many folks who believe that the way this film handled Buzz was absolutely devastating. I don't know what the character did to recieve the amount of hate and butt-off-the-joke treatment from the writers, but it completely ruined his entire impact in the final film. Buzz is smart, capable, charming, daring, and loyal! He isn't a dimwhitted meathead like they make him out to be in the last movie!
TLDR; The last movie had potential, but it felt more like a spinoff straight to DVD film than a finale to an era.
Truthfully, I love how each of you have/embody/cherish components of both characters and I think that helps a lot with maintaining your friendship. Someone knows when they need to be Buzz in a regard and the other needs to be Woody and the other way around. I think that is a huge strength and why you'll continue to have such a strong friendship for a long, long time to come. :)
I'm Iranian and back when I was a kid, VCRs were illegal until CDs came and everything became legal more than 20 years ago. I have missed watching a couple of movies because of that but this movie along with Neverending story made my childhood magical. ♥️✨ I'm glad children can watch whatever they want now
It's your friendship that made me cry. You're so beautiful together. 😭
David Sant deserves a pay rise after the "or is it" joke. Well done to everyone involved in Cinema Therapy, thanks Jonno and Alan for being such funny internet dads.
I was very opposed to Toy Story 4 when it was originally announced becuase the ending of 3 felt so perfect, but once it came out it was a lot of fun and I really loved the message. Its not a perfect film and there are elements I wish got more or less attention (I do really wish there was more Buzz and Woody for example), but I loved Woodys journey and I loved the ending. Like the end of Monsters University, I love stories where characters find happiness and fulfilment and get what they want/need in ways or places they didn't expect, I feel that's a message that is always worth repeating.
So I'm glad it was made!
I would also absolutely love a reunion film where they get to hang out for a while, though I have no idea what kind of story it would tell 😆
100% agree with Alan’s take on Toy Story 4! They just decided to scrap who Woody was at his core and I left the movie feeling like he’d made a huge mistake and would regret it in a month. It was like he left everything he loved and worked his whole life for, all for a girl he suddenly had a crush on. 3 was a perfect end and 4 doesn’t exist in my mind.
Jonothan, thank you for sharing how you still have to work on your marriage. As someone who is trying to be a good father and husband, It's encouraging to know that even the "brightest examples" i look to for inspiration have to work hard to be the people they want to be for the ones they love. =)
It helps us realize we can.
I loved toy story 4, then I saw it as going back to nostalgia with absolutely beautiful visuals, gorgeous film and now I see it as the beginning of something new. I completely agree, we need a toy story 5.
I really loved at it at the end, when you talked about how sometimes stuff will happen and you won't talk for a period of time, but when you get back together its a case of picking up where you left off. I have a few friends like this, where we have moved apart for various reasons (moving to a different state, or in one case buying a yacht and sailing around Australia), and you might not catch up for years, but when you do you instantly click back into 'best of mates' mode :) I have also had some other really close friendships where the 'catch up' - months or years down the track - hasn't gone so well - not because there are any hard feelings, but because you have both grown and changed in different ways and no longer have as much in common. It's kind of sad when this happens, when you want to catch up with an old friend and find out that it is a bit awkward and not the easiness and closeness that you remember, and in these cases I have found we have drifted apart afterwards and not maintained contact. It's awesome though to still have those people in your life, when you know that it doesn't matter how long you have been apart, you are instantly going to click again and be at ease in each others company :)
Seeing that Alan was not afraid to cry during the incinerator scene made me admire him even more than I already did.
My longest friendship is also 17 years, and I'm 29, one of my most trusted friendships is a decade old, I am grateful for both.
As a romantic, I LOVED where Toy Story 4 went with the story. I think the end where where Woody decides to stay with Bo Peep is powerful and very well done. The look on Bo Peep's face when she realizes that the man she loves is choosing her is spot on. I felt my heart swell when I saw the look on her face as I know that will be the look on my face someday. She's tough, strong, independent and smart, but that doesn't mean she doesn't desire love. It's like you guys said, everybody wants love. Everybody needs it. Forget Twilight folks, this is a REAL love story! So many amazing points to be made and not enough room to type them...
That scene from Toy Story 3, I cried! I normally don't cry too easily when it comes to these kind of scenes. But just seeing everyone accept what is going to happen and think there is no way out, the last thing they think to do is join hands so they all go together. That was such a powerful scene.
The friendship between Woody and Buzz is amazing. My best friend and I have been such ever since we were 5 years old- were 31 now. She's a single mom of 2 girls (husband cheated and left them all behind), and I'm married with no children. We can go months without talking or seeing each other, because life, but when we are able to catch up it's as though we were never separated at all. She'll never know just how much a cherish her, because I can't put it into words.
It speaks to the skill of the pixar animators that even when, in hindsight, we can see the character models showing their age, it doesn't detract from the film at all. The plastic-y texture of everything works in the first toy story in a way that it probably wouldn't with human or animal characters, and the movements of the characters are so animated (for lack of a better word) that we barely even register how artificial they look. And even when we do, it looks intentional, whether as a deliberately artificial texture for the toys, or a stylistic choice for the few human characters. The way the animators worked within and around the limits of CG at the time is astounding, I'd say even moreso now when computer animation is so commonplace.
When my mom died, I didn’t tell hardly anyone because I didn’t want a bunch of “sorry for your loss.” It just felt like a cookie cutter response and even if it was meant sincerely, it still felt like they were saying it for them and not me and it still felt like hollow condolences. When I told my friends, they knew that and they just gave me my space to process until I was ready to come back to them.
I didn't tell everyone when my dad died because I needed some places where I wasn't me-whose-dad-died, so I totally understand. And I didn't need the awkwardness from people I didn't know THAT well.