Movie Couples Therapy: PETER PARKER and MJ from SPIDER-MAN
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2022
- What does it take to make a relationship work? And can you have a healthy relationship after going through a rough patch?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at the relationship between Peter Parker (Tobey Maguire) and Mary Jane Watson (Kirsten Dunst) from director Sam Raimi’s original Spider-Man Trilogy, to see what struggles they had in their relationship, and what would have helped them work through them. It's couples therapy for Peter and MJ! And they definitely would have needed it after all they went through... from Peter having a hard time expressing his feelings and telling the truth, to their on-again-off-again-dating-his-best-friend thing, to him being genuinely awful to her in Spider-Man 3. Jonathan gives some tips that we can all use in our relationships, Alan geeks out about the camera work and score, and they get trolled by the editor over who's the best Peter Parker.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: David Sant
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
Spanish Transcription by: Juan Willems
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One of my favorite theories regarding Three is about Peter's behavior. His "dark side" isn't just a jazzy jerk. It's him behaving how he thinks the cool people act, because he was always bullied.
Aw, I never saw him this way. To be honest, I kinda liked him in this jazzy jerk/bully stage. He was mean to MJ, but he was much less of a doormat.
Fucking exactly, that’s what I’ve always been saying, this isn’t Peter being cool, it’s a bullied nerd’s interpretation of what’s cool.
I’ve never thought about it like that before. That’s a pretty good theory
I mean, the symbiote/Venom doesnt even know what bad is. So if Peter thought that this is what bad guys do, thats what Venom compelled him to do.
I mean, it is an accurate representation of what he would think cool and popular people would do. The symbiote draws out your most aggressive tendencies too.
Astrid and Hiccup would be great for couples therapy, because i think they are a great example of a good and healthy relationship.
Yesss
I would love to see them do them!
Sameeee
Yes!
Yes please!! Also a great development in the first movie
20:00 I love in this scene you can tell just how hurt Gwen is by Peter's actions and you see her look toward the exit and you think she's going to leave, but then she looks at MJ and notices "It's not just me," and takes a moment to apologize to MJ both for Peters actions and the role she played in helping him hurt her, I adore that! So often in movies like this the "side girl" is cruel, mean, stuck up, cold, whatever and seen as, well quite frankly, seen as a b*tch compared to the "main girl" but they don't do that when Gwen. And by not making Gwen feel like a hollow barbie doll that is just there to cause problems, they make the audience so much more upset with Peter because he puts his ego, not only above his girlfriend but also above an innocent woman who had nothing to do with anything.
Brilliantly put 👏👏
yessss
Amen!
yess !!
I'm glad they didn't make Gwen a mean girl who rubbed being with Peter in MJ's face.
The scene where she tells Peter that she wants to be an actress, her face is ready for rejection and for him to laugh at her and then when he says the opposite her whole body lights up. She has been constantly yelled at, being told she's worthless. What she's doing feels very natural and real. Also the first movie is over a few years.
A part that I hate and makes me so sad for MJ was when Harry didn’t defend her with his dad I get that’s your father but the way he went at her for wanting him to defend her even a little bit I hated so much
@@shania991
He did say his father was wrong and got angry at him because he wanted his dad to meet his gf.
The issue is that Harry was only doing it to impress his dad so he feels like disappointed his dad yet again, while MJ, who really didn't care at all about Harry, hated Norman because of how much she felt like Harry tried to wrap her up like a gift to his dad.
In conclusion, the end of the relationship came naturally since neither really cared for each other, only after second intentions, so her getting mad at him for not defending her was more of an excuse to finally break up.
Something that Jono hints at but doesn't outright say is, well, Peter is literally the only man in the first movie who respects MJ and her dreams (with aunt May being the only woman who does as well). He builds her up and encourages her constantly, and never tries to force his feelings for her or his perception of her on her, so it's really no surprise that he's the first person she actually falls in love with by the end, and that she stays in love with him throughout the second film even after finding another man who respects and supports her
@@nestorsifuentesaguirre2722 Ursula? What do you mean? That scene with the cookies in 3?
I always liked that Gwen apologized to Mary Jane. She has been wronged too, and the cinematography and acting make that really clear, but she takes the time to hold herself accountable to the other hurt party. That's really strength of character.
Gwen is also aware enough of how Peter is using her to get back at MJ and once she figures that out, she says nothing to him and goes straight to MJ to apologize.
Gwen being classy af. Hope she found a real one!
@@tiph3802 She deserves a real one after all the bullshit she and MJ _both_ went through, thanks to Peter. :3. Sweet, sweet MJ and Gwen, I will always love _both_ of them.
Agreed. Well done, Gwen.
Maybe they should have ended up together..
"She can outrun a T. Rex, but she can't outrun Toby's libido."
I have never, ever, laughed so hard at one of your lines. That was freaking hilarious.
Yeah I was sitting in a train and completely lost it. Oh, the stares xD
I choked on my food
I screached like a t-rex :D
Is that the same actress? I never knew lol.
@@RedRoseSeptember22 the blonde wig kinda makes it hard to tell she’s actually a natural redhead
When Alan hit me with the addiction stuff I really felt it as a recovering addict as well this is too real. Glad to see people like Alan and Jono do this stuff to help people out and relate to them on a real level. I mean to say I'm greatful for you guys just don't know how to put it.
A villian Therapy on Magneto would be amazing. He survived WW2 Germany, Civil Rights America, and countless situations only to still be persecuted for what he is, and because of it all he's militaristic when it comes to the survival of his people.
Just covering the MLK & Malcom X dynamic between him and Xavier can take a 10 min episode lol.
i second this also couples therapy for magneto and professor x
@@nimbusykz2288 bruh
@@nimbusykz2288 I second that
Except I don't think Magneto is that comparable to Malcolm X. Magneto, despite surviving Nazi Germany, became something akin to a Nazi himself, believing Mutants to be superior and seeing homosapiens as animals. It's kinda sad how he became the thing that his childhood self would have hated.
@@redshurikenrlsh1951 He's more comparable to Malcom than he ever is to a Nazi... I don't know if you read the comics, but the movies barely do him justice; Sir Ian McKellen's portrayl saved the character honestly..
Magneto is in simple terms, a "mutant messaih", there's many organizations and individuals who target mutants and most of the time he's first to respond if he's not on the attack and even then it's preemptive. Even when he started Genosha or went to asteroid M he was treated more like a savior than a villain.. Hell dude when Scarlett Witch wiped out 98% of the mutant's powers in the Multiverse he went after hi own son because he helped cause it evoking Magneto's name.. A very famous panel is him screaming at Quicksilver "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE IN MY NAME BOY!?". He takes out ANYONE thats a threat to Mutants, family included. He's protecting his people from a very real threat and humans have done nothing but prove him right. Sounds suspiciously like Malcom X's main talking points when he went out on protests and spoke publicly lol.. There's a storyline written in the late 80s early 90s called "God Loves Man Kills"... the first few opening panels is of a group called The Purifiers who walk into a park and mass shoot children because their mutants, their leader William Stryker is a Evangelist priest with political power. That was the comic that really placed me on Magneto's side and I haven't felt differently since.
It's long winded I know lol but with pop culture characters its easier to paint a picture of them using all the source material. And from the sound of it you're a movie fan not really a reader so hopefully you learned something interesting at least. Most people don't know Stryker was changed for the movies let alone just the sheer scope of mythology that comes with the X-Men 🤙
I have three couples that you should talk about in Couple Therapy: Shrek and Fiona, Hiccup and Astrid, and Forest Gump and Jenny.
Definitely Astrid and Hiccup!
I think they did speak a bunch about F&J in the movie reaction
A Shrek and Fiona one would be fun.
Hell yeah I wanna see Shrek and Fiona. To me, they feel like the one of most natural relationships on screen--they have their flaws, fights, tension, and disagreements, but in the end they care each other, fight hell to protect each other, and they openly celebrate the things they have in common, including their love for one another. I'm especially keen to hear Jonathan's take on their relationship in the second movie when Shrek meets Fiona's family for the first time, and if he also has any takes for the dad King Harold as well.
Hermione and Ron vs Harry
21:24 I appreciate that as much as Gwen was somewhat infatuated with Peter, the moment she noticed Peter was using her to make MJ jealous, she was having none of it and immediately apologised. As another commenter, Bia Oliveira, mentioned, the writers could have had MJ and Gwen pitted against each other, fighting over Peter, and thankfully they chose not to go down that cliche path.
Good point!
Thanks for this! I recently rewatched the Raimi films and it's really clear how MJ goes out with the guy she 'should be' dating: in high school, it's Flash because he's the popular jock; in college, it's Harry because he's rich and well known, and then Jamison, who's an astronaut and a national hero. These are the men who she should be finding attractive, so she does her best to follow that path, but her heart's not in it. MJ's been told all her life that she's worthless and won't amount to a damn, which is why it means so much to her when Peter immediately supports her dream of being an actress, tells her she'll be great, tells her not to be ashamed when she reveals she's working at a diner. All of this enables her to be brave (braver than Peter in some ways) and put her heart on the line for him. I always thought it was a shame that SM3 ended on such a downbeat note and the reference in No Way Home made me so happy that they had put work into their relationship and kept going.
Something that Jono hints at but doesn't outright say is, well, Peter is literally the only man in the first movie who respects MJ and her dreams (with aunt May being the only woman who does as well). He builds her up and encourages her constantly, and never tries to force his feelings for her or his perception of her on her, so it's really no surprise that he's the first person she actually falls in love with by the end, and that she stays in love with him throughout the second film even after finding another man who respects and supports her
Please please do a similar breakdown for Andrew’s Peter and Emma’s Gwen. It’ll be really interesting to see that dynamic, especially with Gwen’s dad in that mix.
Also, another request would be an episode on Tony Stark and Pepper Potts, especially with Tony’s constant narcissism and Pepper understanding him at almost every turn.
I never saw Tony as a narcissist.
@@mdtisthebest6249 He kinda is a textbook narcissist, not a narcissistic person in the way it’s commonly used. Iron man 2 showcases how Tony’s ego and self image blinded him from responsibility and rationality with the powers and technology he had developed
@@mdtisthebest6249 people throw the word narcissist around willy billy nowadays, when all they really mean is selfish. It's annoying, but narcissist doesn't have meaning anymore.
Peter hitting MJ destroyed any desire I had for them to be a couple. It broke my heart even as a child. The gasp that echoed through my theatre was enormous. You should do a couples therapy on Tony Stark and Pepper Potts too.
3000
I always found it that he hit her out of "get off me idk who is touching me".
He swats two dudes then MJ. I am not defending the other stuff, but when I am angry, I see nothing and have told my family to allow me to settle.
The movie to me shows it was a mistake but focuses on it as if he went out of his way to do so and I don't see it.
Hitting anyone is bad btw.
Also, I could be wrong here, just seemed like it to me is all.
Episode about Tony and Pepper sounds really interesting.
@@garciavashchino1 Yeah, he hit someone who turned out to be her, rather than hitting her specifically. Of course, the "he would never deliberately hurt me" line was already crossed by his dancing with Gwen, so, while the physical violence was (mostly) accidental, MJ has every reason to choose to not re-enter a relationship with him. Or she can choose to.
Yes! @Cinema Therapy do ALL THe couples! Especially Elizabeth and Darcy!
I don't know if this is the first time Alan's mentioned a history of addiction or just my first time noticing it, but I want to applaud his authenticity about it. That was very brave to share, and I'm so glad he's in recovery!
@BonnieBrae I didn't know, either. Whatever he was taking, I'm so glad he's dealt with the emotions that tied him to those demons, and that he's used the process to conquer them. (5/4/2022)
I wanted to hug him!
Indeed, I didn't know either, and sharing that openly with accountability is very courageous.
@@tiph3802 same!
I've watched every episode and I can't remember hearing it
I love how Alan is vulnerable about his background. It’s refreshing
Yes I agree my childhood friend who we both tried to date was an addict and she the runner type, she'd hurt me then jump , she'd come back in my life clean and she would be apologetic
As they said her addiction went from drugs to going from guy to guy and her jealousy was also toxic she would intentionally try to upset me to where I did some hateful things like verbally assaulting her character and throwing her adduction in her face (I apologized multiple times to her as she has to me)
To the point where she says her words "I'm a piece of shit, I hurt you and lost you I'll never forgive myself"
If we were physically together she was "safe" if not"I can't live without you here "
I had to walk away , that's a dark side of many drug addicts they go from quitting the drugs , to getting another addiction (hers was sex and serial dating)
It’s pretty typical these days to talk of addiction.
I was not expecting the level of emotional honesty that came from Alan Seawright in this episode. Being so visible about being an addict is a huge courageous act. It is is so utterly important to have this discussion. Thank you Johnathan and Alan for your words, your research, your careful language and emotional response. Thank you for having this discussion here and for choosing to keep it in rather than edit it out. Now people have a chance to understand. You guys are legitimately incredible.
I LOVE that you brought up how dumb never going to bed angry can be. It took about 5-6 years of being married before I made a rule with my husband that he can not bring up a difficult conversation after 9:30pm. I get beastly when I’m tired, so even though it drives my husband crazy, it’s more productive for us to wait until morning to deal with hard topics.
This. We struggled with that. I want to back off and cool off, whereas he saw that as a failure to communicate and wanted to fight until it got worked out (meaning: someone "won"). Worse than going to bed angry is pursuing and berating someone for not wanting an emotionally charged battle.
AMEN!
Same rule in my house! It’s so dumb to try to work something out when you’re emotionally exhausted AND just plain tired and your brain is half asleep
My husband and I have a rule where we pause the conversation if one or both of us start to get emotional. Like. One of the Big Talks we had took about a week because we kept pausing, cooling off, and coming back. But it lets us come at it from a calm place and work together against the issue rather than against each other with the issue as a weapon. And that's really important.
I think its more of a principle than an actual rule. The idea of settling issues with your significant other quickly instead of letting them fester is good advice. But obviously some issues are so complex that each individual needs to understand where they really stand emotionally and logically on an issue.
Much love to Alicia. “I can make my own money” is a mindset that does not get much respect in regards to women, but it is vital.
Never planned on marriage, but if I was to get married, I vowed to prove to myself that I didn't need to. And I did that, and married an abuser
@@recoveringsoul755 marrying an abuser is not your fault
@@prefersdocile9688 I can see the red flags in hindsight, but it's too late now. Damage is done
@@recoveringsoul755 You can heal though. The fact that damage was done to you will never go away, but you can recover from the damage, and make better choices next time. If you want there to be a next time. Totally up to you.
@@recoveringsoul755 you chose sticking out instead of leaving which is what a lot of women do, because we learn that our health and well-being should not and does not play a role when a man is involved. It' a very automatic thing that we learn from early childhood. Your choice wasn't the problem and you shouldn't blame yourself for something you knew was the 'wise thing' to do at that moment. The antidote to this socialization is radical self-love and surviving life experiences like these. The cure to this kind of pain is self-acceptance. I want to stress that you are not wrong or stupid, however much you might feel that. This may sound corny but that's exactly what society wants aspiring independent women to feel like. Your abuser wanted to knock you from your feet, but you are still there and as long you will be a recovered person, he will be a big loser. (spoiler alert: he already was this entire time).
One of the things I loved about the Amazing Spiderman films was the way that Peter and Gwen worked together to solve the problems they were facing. There were times that Peter wanted to protect Gwen but she had so much agency, she took her life into her own hands and did what she thought was right, and he supported her, he **respected** her. For me that was so much better than the whole Tobey-Peter/MJ relationship. It's such a contrast.
The issue of abuse and addiction is one that is not one size fits all. It's highly contextual; it depends on so many variables and it has to be the choice of the people involved, what they can live with and what they can't. I'm glad that you guys were very clear on it being up to the people in the situation to judge.
And now we know why Tobey Peter was right. MJ is alive lol.
For couples:
Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler - Gone with the Wind
Sandy and Danny -Greese
Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy - Pride and Prejudice
Not a couple, but I think a Nurse Ratchet episode would be so fun. Maybe for Halloween 😉
Love you guys!
Elizabeth and Darcy!!!!!
YES!!!
They just did Elizabeth and Darcy ☺️
Grease couples would be *so* good.
Shiv Roy and Tom Wambsgan in succession
Some ideas for couples therapy:
Will and Elizabeth - Pirates of the Caribbean
Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy - Amazing Spider-Man
Anakin and Padme - Star Wars
I think that a Will and Elizabeth episode would be GREAT
Ooh, great suggestions. I think Tony and Pepper would be a good choice too, considering how much focus they've given to the marvel movies.
My favorite couple Gomez and Morticia
Came here to say Anakin and Padmé too
Will and Elizabeth had zero chemistry, that was the rough part.
I rewatched the trilogy recently and noticed how toxic MJ and Peter were together, I think a lot of this just went unnoticed in the early 00's because there were so many depictions of unhealthy relationships on screen then. Glad you guys talked about this!
Thank you this version of them always made me feel weird. Like I never could see them going the distance if that makes sense
SO TRUE!! I watched it about 4 months ago as well and was like… I don’t know about them. Their highlight was her running from her wedding at the end of the 2nd movie to be with him. Not really a good indication of where she was, commitment wise.
I rewatched them recently too and yeah it's amazing just how unlikeable every main character is.
@@chrisblanc663 Well but thats how people are. no one is perfect. no couple is perfect. and thats normal and good.
I believe that was the main criticism these movies got initially.
Oh my gosh I loved MJ as a kid. The fire engine red hair (which I still want to this day) and her kind heart. You believe in her and care about her. She wasn’t just the popular girl.
I'd love to see them do Han and Leia from Star Wars. They're one of my favorite movie couples, but I'd love to see if the guys' opinions match my amateur psychoanalysis.
I second that motion !
I agree. I would also like to see them do Noah and Allie from the Notebook.
The moral of this story is something Johnathan has said so many times I can't believe he didn't say it here.
"The greatest apology is changed behaviour."
Actually, there's a point that doesn't get talked about enough in regards to Peter.
When you look at superhero love interests, she's unique in that her work and social life aren't in any way dependent on Peter/Spidey. She is fully independent financially and socially, she just loves Peter, and isn't really useful to Peters fight as Spider-Man
That what sucks about her. She needs to be a Spider-Woman or a She Venom to Spider-Man.
That's not how MJ from comics acts.
@@willhicks7027 Um, yes it is, and it's not "acting". Her job as a model/actress has nothing to do with Peter/Spidey. The social circles she runs in exist whether or not Pete is around. Yes they have some communal friends, but that's just being a couple. She was a blind date his Aunt May set him up with (despite several failures).
Going back to the Lois example, her professional career is built on Superman articles, and she's co-worker to Clark, also a reporter.
@@brycedurham280 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
@@dragonstryk7280 The Mj in the comics also managed to get out of trouble and help Peter, she’s also has a similar past to Peter in the form of parallel lives.
“This is really heavy” always makes me laugh. This Peter is the most real and relatable to me.
Hearing Allen talk about his addiction was really touching and I’ve never related to him more. I love how open you guys are on this channel. It means more than anyone could possibly convey to you through words.
You could do Sophie and Howl from Howls Moving Castle in the next couples therapy!!
It's such a good movie, and the way they kind of slowly go from complete opposites in the beginning, to matching very well emotionally and in a character design perspective at the end is very interesting.
You could also talk about how they learn from each other without losing themselves. Sophie gains confidence with Howl and learns to live for herself and be more adventurous, while Howl learns to be more down to earth and stop running from his problems. They learn the best parts of each other in a very natural way
Such a wholesome movie, more people need to watch it.
Oh yes, please!!
YES THIS!!!
@@hallaloth3112 Yes, it's my absolute favourite! ❤
It's hard to say it's underrated because it IS very popular. But seriously everyone should see it, and the other ghibli movies!!
OMG Yes!
After Peter accidentally hits MJ you can see the realization come over his face, the manic energy is still there too. Tobey really was remarkable at the display of emotions on his face and the subtle acting choices. Tobey's spiderman embodies the really dorky, not super attractive nerdy kid that goes through all the honest things a nerdy, bullied kid would probably do if given a great responsibility. I love the dichotomy between the three spidermans where none of them are the same in any way besides the wanting to be good and help people part. They all adopt it in different ways and handle their relationships differently.
That's what I love most about Tobey Macguire as Spidey: he's kind of plain-looking, not stunningly gorgeous or conventionally attractive; he's your everyday man and the average joe, hammering home the message that "Anyone can wear the mask." I love the natural awkwardness he delivers as he struggles to be vulnerable and open with others, and how much you can see his internal conflict in just his voice and eyes.
Of course that's not downplaying Tom Holland and Andrew Garfield's performances, they are fantastic in their own ways, I just hope and want to make sure people don't overlook Tobey as more than a legendary meme!
I have said he was a good peter, but weak as Spiderman. never saw the amzing movies because I rather they had continued Rami's it was jsut way to early for a reboot. it sounded like Andrew's Spiderman was good but Peter weak. Holland found the balance
@@Revkor this is exactly what I have said with every Peter-Man! Age-wise they also got progressively more suitable.
@@Revkor Andrew's was far more in line with the comics, especially Ultimate, while Tom is in the right spot.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 just goign by what i heard that his peter was his weakside.
I tip my hat to Alan for being so open about his struggles, it's such a difficult thing to do and you do it with such heart, you can see you've hurt but well done for how far you've come and how open about your mental health.
I'd like to request that Jonathan looks at Forest Gump and 'Jen-ay' for the next couples therapy. They have such a heartbreaking love story, and it's almost like they both take single paths but always cross each other at certain points. Thank you 😊
What about LOTR's Aragorn and Arwen?
They virtually spend almost the whole trilogy being in a long distance relationship which, on top of that, feels hopeless due to the looming war, being from two different kinds/'species' (elf and human), Arwen loosing her life force, Aragorn having insecurities (and catching a fair maiden Eowyn's attention), etc.?
I think it's amazing how they both stay faithful to each other till the end 🥺
3:30 "she can't be clueless that he's crazy about her"
I mean, I was clueless about this guy at my work. I actually relate a lot to MJ in these movies. like in the movies you see that she has an abusive father (from what I remember I haven't watched the movies in a while). due to things my stepfather told me growing up I had a hard time believing that anyone would really like me, and that made me clueless.
I hope you are in a better place now
@@kingofpenguins4157 I am I moved far away from my parents house a year ago.
Thank you for trusting us enough to share this!
I can relate to that feeling. I've never had an intentionally abusive family, the closest I can say is that my mother has OCD and it's difficult to live with someone like that. Though I have developed similar feelings, not seeing why anyone would find me attractive, not wanting to get close to people and feeling that having no romantic relationship is better than having a bad one, but I think that one comes from my parents not having a good relationship. Not abusive but there's no love and I really don't understand why they're still together.
@@RJALEXANDER777 What you describe could fit me as well. I spent decades (I'm 55) just assuming I wasn't worth anybody's time and I ran from many good men.
I'm looking at this past with my therapist now and I'm starting to understand how these hurtful thoughts and behaviors arose as a defense.
But, it's hard: I sometimes doubt I should get to feel better.
Cheers to you.
I'd love to see one on Mr. & Mrs. Incredible. I feel they really did have an interesting dynamic in both movies, as a couple and as part of a family.
Ooh, this would be a great one for couple's therapy, would love to see this
_Enormous explosions resulting in the deaths of at least two goons_
Bob & Helen simultaneously: *Oh, I love you.*
...Yeah, I'd say there's a lot to unpack there.
Yes! That'd be great to analyze
Yes! I want to see that!
+
22:08 I had a co-worker that came to work with a black eye. I, as manager, asked what happened. They told me, "I am going to be honest with you, I am in an abusive relationship. Now, before you say anything, my mom and sister have given me an ear full." I told my co-worker, "I have just one question. You know you are not in a healthy relationship, right?" They nodded. "Then there is nothing more to say. You know what you need to do, telling you anything else will not help. If ever you feel unsafe call me. I will be there as quick as I can."
For me it is like telling a smoker that smoking is bad, they know. Telling them to quit over and over will not get them to quit. The only thing to do be there for them when it gets messy or cut ties altogether.
For Couples Therapy, I would LOVE to see you guys do The Time Traveler's Wife. It's such an untraditional relationship that faces some real problems (miscarriage, not having enough time for each other, death, grief, etc) but it focuses on the idea that through the good and bad, any time with your partner should be cherished
I’d like to see his take on if this relationship is grooming. I have friends who fall on both sides of the argument.
Yesssss!
The book is 1000000x better and more fleshed out than that horror of an abridged, mangled movie, but the series looks good. Has to be better than that film, but a close sort of couple would be the Outlander couple. But they don't do series yet!
"Editor's Note: This opinion is wrong." happy to know that the hosts were sensible enough to hire an editor with correct opinions
I think the editor is Alan's wife. Which makes it even better.
I laughed SO MUCH at the "False information - reviewed by independent fact checkers" screen, you wouldn't believe 😅
YESSS!!
@@narnigrin That was the best! 🤣
Do you by chance have the timestamp? I watch these videos like podcasts and I rarely look at the screen
I really appreciate Alan talking about his exerience with relationships in his addiction. I'm sure it wasn't easy and although short it braught a lot of valuable insight to the episode. Creating relationships can be easy maintaining them are hard especially when struggling with something but it's worth it because having a connection with someone whether it be physical or platonic is a beautifal thing.
+bajillion on this, seeing it I wanted to say exactly this but you articulated it way better than I could have. Fair play to Alan and this channel for being so open and honest.
I don't know how ready he'd be to open himself about it, but I would like him to. We know Alan's gonna own his mistakes. And knowing what he did and STILL be this great guy could give a lot of hope to some of us.
This is very true. Thank you very much Alan for sharing.
Alan, thank you for your share.
I would absolutely love a follow-up to this with The Amazing Spider-Man movies, particularly with Peter and Gwen there, their relationship was an absolute highlight of the films. The movies were also flawed, for sure, but I still love them and I think one of the best aspects of them was how they tackled grief (also an interestig point for cinema therapy). I loove how much time is dedicated in the movies to rounding out Uncle Ben for example, how Peter's reckless anger after his death is portrayed and then how Ben remains a lingering presence throughout the films. Not just him either but also the heavy absence of Peter's parents (okay, his dad first and foremost), Peter's PTSD (at least I think that counts as PTSD) after Captain Stacy dies which is directly tied to Peter fighting as Spider-Man which results in his terrified back and forth with Gwen. And then (And THEN) his worst fear actually coming true and how he then has to move on from that! I would just love an episode on that! Oh and Peter's and May's relationship in these movies also deserves more attention, they were wonderful together.
I would know to see you do a video on Shrek and Fiona from the beginning to the end. I always thought the way their relationship progressed was very true to real life. Would love to hear your thoughts! Keep up the great work guys ! I am obsessed with both of your takes.
I've always said theirs is the most realistic marriage... ironically.
Yes shrek is my favorite animated movie series
Yes yes yes! Shrek and Fiona are such an interesting and real couple to see throughout the movies!
Obviously your next movie couple therapy should be the og romantic couple: Elizabeth Bennet and Mr Darcy
Also, I really enjoy that Alan has been talking more about directing actors and acting choices lately. There's a million CZcams channels talking about the technical aspects of movie making, but directing actors rarely comes up. Keep it up ☺️
Alan really seems to be an actor's director and film-crew manager, which is neat. It seems we mostly hear from the film-technique or image-poetry virtuosos, when it's directors talking about their process.
Also yes to doing Jane Austen therapy.
Yes please!
YES YES YES Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy please?
As a comic book fan, I've always felt that film has never quite done Mary Jane Watson justice with how independent, free-spirited and charismatic she can be. Peter Parker and Mary-Jane are at their best when challenging themselves to be better together. Writers like J Michael Straczynski and Chip Zdarsky to name two of DOZENS of great Spidey writers really nail Peter and MJ's connection.
Hear hear! I never wanted to call it Dunst's take because I feel like she was written without MJ's energy but seriously their vibe... wasn't for me.
They made her alot stronger and more independent in the ps4 game, and though I didn't care for the mj gameplay sequences, I thought that was pretty cool
If they really do end up making a Spider-man 4 with Tobey and Kirsten returning for their roles, I would hope to see them done more justice. I mean, Spider-man 3 was over a decade ago, so they could have had a lot of off-screen development (as No Way Home indicated). That could go for both their relationship and MJ's personality.
I think Tobey-Peter's "Complicated" line might've been him trying to not potentially spoil Andrew-Peter's future for him. Maybe he and MJ are currently raising a daughter or 2? And we could have a movie where their relationship is much better written as they navigate raising a spider-child (or 2).
I feel these guys neglected to talk about how MJ is the most toxic in the relationship. She leaves Her fiancée at the altar, she is jealous of Spider-Man, and truth be told she is too materialistic.
23:12 Yeah, this is definitely a terrible situation. I've been on the receiving end of it due to one of my parents struggling with substance abuse. And to the rest of the family it translates into constant worry and being on the receiving end of emotional or even physical abuse. And it is probably the most difficult thing I've ever dealt with in my life; wanting to help someone, while simultaneously wanting to cut them out of your life. Wanting to forgive them, while at the same time knowing that the scars run so deep that you can't see how things could ever be mended. And worst of all, hating their behaviour, but still loving that person at the same time.
So for anyone reading this: please, if you have problems with substance abuse, seek help. It is never your problem alone, but the problem of everyone around you as well.
I love how vulnerable the two of you are and open about your own mistakes and growth. God knows the world needs more mature and maturing adults resetting the bar for "normal" or at least "functional"...
I never understood their relationship and still don’t until today. I feel like they weren’t written with enough depth to relate to one another or make sense as a couple. Their relationship was not only toxic but so surface level.
Me neither, it had so many problems, yet at least they were apparently able to patch things up if "No Way Home" is any indication.
@@trinaq even as a kid, I always thought “wow they’re a terrible match” and I had a crush on Lucius Malfoy at the time so the bar was low 🤣
Yeah even as a kid I was like ”wow this relationship has some big problems”
@@TheShanicpower the whole “dorky guy who saves girl next door from her demons” is… okay? But only if the characters have SOME chemistry
How was it toxic?
Seeing Alan admit being abusive and showing gratitude for getting another chance brought a tear to my eye. There was a lot of emotion behind those words. Genuine remorse and changing your behavior are the only way forward. Your honesty and vulnerability are inspiring.
I hope that you stick with movies - they're a much better addiction to have.
Woah, he admitted to being an *addict*. Not abusive. Phrasing.
I actually liked Tobey Maguire's version of Spider-Man most and I don't understand why it got so much hate.
Great episode and I am excited for the series. Suggestions:
- "You've got mail" - an example of on-line relationship
- "Before sunrise" - all three movies are so interesting and I always watch them double the time of their lenght, because I have so many thoughts
He's the only American Spiderman really. I love his eyes.
Because its the first and the NEWER VERSION IS ALWAYS BETTER🙄
This movie did two things for the previous spider-men that I didn’t expect, but that I needed for them:
-TM got to tell us he figured it out with MJ
-AG got to save MJ when he couldn’t save Gwen.
BTW @CinemaTherapy - “Trying to do better was a callback to SM2”
2 movies that simply must not be overlooked for Couples Therapy are Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and 500 Days of Summer
Oh my gosh yes to both of those!!!
I'm honestly kind of shocked they haven't touched Eternal Sunshine yet.
Tom “She took a giant shit right on my face. Literally.”
Random girl in restaurant “Literally?”
Tom “What? God no, what the hell’s wrong with you.”
@@Wrencher_86 there's no hero or villain and until they started the couple's therapy it just didn't fit into the other video threads. I'm sure they wanted to do it before, and now they can tackle it with this video series. In the case of both films I'm excited to hear their takes on when a relationship just doesn't work; either because it's a learning experience to be used for a future relationship or because no matter how much you love someone they just aren't healthy for you to be with them.
"I can't survive without you." "You and I can never be." "I know exactly how you feel." Quotes that show how toxic this relationship can be.
Damn, I hadn't consciously noticed that but you're right!
All statements: I have decided this. No room for communication or the others' feelings/rights to choose, etc...
To be fair;
- They're meant to be Teenagers in these movies. Peter and MJ are in High-School when the first movie occurs.
- Peter has literal murderers after him, and MJ has no way of protecting herself if someone targets her.
Sure they're pretty worrying things for someone to say, but I feel like Peter is a little more justified in trying to push her away specifically, especially when he sees that any time anyone ever gets close to him; they tend to get extremely hurt or die.
@@_Pikahiiri_ Exactly! Context matters, and people need to remember that.
@@_Pikahiiri_ toxic relationships with teenagers are still toxic relationships and parents need to look out, after all they are modelling their adult life as well as just experimenting. teenagers need to know their own worth especially
@@not-a-ghost2206 the difference here is that teenagers can't be expected to know better.
The line in No Way Home about MJ and Peter having to work on things made me so happy ♡♡ because it's relatable af and shows that real love takes real work
If you aren't just doing romantic relationships, I'd love to see your take on Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson from the Daredevil Series. I feel like there could be a lot to talk about there, and it would be cool to talk about platonic relationships and how important they are.
Can't wait for Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy. And also the reason people hated the emo dancing was because of the wasted potential of the symbiote storyline which is regarded as one of the best Spider-Man stories ever.
Absolutely! I was so eager to see Vemon on screen.
Also, because emos play a different music genre: alternative rock. Besides, sprouting fangs and death-growling is a better way to show Peter turning into Venom than dancing on a piano and slapping MJ.
When Toby was trying to kill Sandman he embodied what the Venom suit would do to your personality, Venom wouldn't go emo and start dancing at a jazz club to make an ex jealous.
@@benbeal6729 Venom wouldn’t, but Tobey’s Peter absolutely would.
Jonathan: "So he's protecting her instead of trusting her."
Alan: "Yeah."
Jonathan: "And the issue with that is that secrets either ruin relationships or keep them from starting in the first place. And we saw this all throughout the Twilight Saga, where Edward kept protecting Bella instead of trusting her. And when it comes to expressing your feelings and risking it. . . it is imperative that you take that risk, because not only 'no risk, no reward', but 'no risk, no move on with your life if it doesn't work out for you.'
He thinks it comes from a place of love, but he's actually disrespecting her . . . by not allowing her to make that choice."
*****
I do REALLY LIKE that question that MJ asks Peter: "Can't you respect me enough to make my own decisions?", and I feel like that's the ONE question that Bella should've asked Edward.
Because throughout the entirety of Spider-Man and Twilight. . . both Peter and Edward protect MJ and Bella without trusting them to be in danger; they both love their girlfriends, but they don't trust them to the point of making decisions that risk their lives, hence why they keep pushing the two away.
It could be both.
Because it is entirely possible to have genuinely good reasons or motivations for doing something..and yet still end up doing the wrong thing. It's that whole 'ends don't justify the means' dilemma-HOW you tackle the journey to get somewhere is every bit as important as where you're intending to go in the first place. If you only have one ore, and you don't paddle on both sides with it, you won't go forward no matter how much you want to....but that doesn't mean that you didn't genuinely _want_ to go forward, maybe you just didn't know anything about how rowing a canoe actually works or maybe you were just too overly-emotional to be thinking clearly or logically and really rationalize it out properly from a less narrow or limited perspective. You can do the wrong thing for the right reason(s), or with your heart/intent in the right place... Because humans are merely human, and therefore humans aren't perfect. 🙂
I think this is also likely why many languages actually have different words for selfless love versus "selfish" love. "Selfish" love focuses too much on what _you_ do or don't want from or for the other person, but selfless-Love remembers to take into account the fact that the other person is also an autonomous individual being who is every bit as capable-of and justified in having their own independent Wants and Do-Not-Wants for their own self which should matter to you too _IF_ you genuinely care about *them* & don't just care about you. The closest thing to this concept in the English language, I think, is Lust[ or Desire or Passion] versus Love...except that this also separates it into physical versus psychological, and even purely psychologically-speaking you can still be selfish.
The funny thing is, in the Twilight books, Bella actually almost does say that to Edward in a way.. after Edward comes back ..by refusing to give her friendship with Jacob up just because he's a werewolf and the Cullens mistrust him since he could be dangerous. She also does this, in a way, every time she sneaks off to put herself in harms way even when Edward tells her to stay out of things, or every time she insists that it's her right to decide if she wants Edward in her life or not, and every time she insists on being able to drive herself in her own car instead of always being chauffeured around by Edward or his family; among other things. She literally fights for the right to make her own decisions and/or to take her own risks. But, when she's fighting to keep her friendship with Jacob and the rest of the pack, that's when she actually refuses to just roll over and take it without saying anything to Edward's[ or the rest of the Cullen's] face[s]; because she straight up says that she's the one who actually knows Jacob/the-pack, so she's the one who can actually make the better/more-informed judgment or whatever about how dangerous they are or aren't. And it is such a shame that this wasn't focused on more in the movies too. (And I don't even like Bella, personally. Because, in the books, when Edward acknowledges essentially that he's been disrespecting her and kind of needs to work on improving that/himself...instead of acknowledging that too but forgiving him anyway or something, she insists that he just hasn't actually been disrespecting her at all just because he might have meant well and also refuses to ever even acknowledge the possibility that there might/could/ have been times when he actually wasn't totally perfect and might legit not even entirely have meant well either; among so many so many many other things.)
But, basically, yeah - I completely agree with you!
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 So. . .
With Jacob and Bella, it's Selfless Love.
But with Edward and Bella. . . it's unhealthy, toxic, Selfish Love?
@@scotttrail522 Not necessarily?
Bella and Jacob's relationship also had a lot of problems too. Despite the fact that I liked the way she stood up for herself and for Jacob & the rest of the pack[ & for her own right to make her own judgments/decisions a little bit] at least in the books more than she stood up for pretty much anything else. That didn't really have anything to do with the love that any of them did or didn't feel for each other so much as it just had to do with her own personal agency. And it doesn't mean that the way they treated each other was necessarily always any healthier or less selfish than how Bella and Edward treated each other; although there were certainly some moments when it was, there were also plenty of moments when it could be just as bad.
That is quite the astute analysis, as someone who struggles with, but has been making a lot of progress, lately, in letting my guard down and being vulnerable with my closest loved ones
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 There's also a BIG difference in Edward and Jacob, with the two loving Bella:
Jacob ACTUALLY DOES trust Bella to (try) to make her own decisions
Edward feels that because Bella's a human, she can't take care of herself in front of vampires.
(Oh, who am I kidding? ALL VAMPIRES ARE DANGEROUS!)
Hence, why he's ALWAYS shoving her to the side. As a result, he doesn't fully trust her to accompany him.
I love whoever edits these putting in the Tobey-love because I'm such a Tobey lover. Maybe do a cinema therapy on nostalgia and the obsession with the original trilogy. I get angry when people say they don't like Tobey or Sam Raimi or the original trilogy. On a main note: I LOVE THIS CHANNEL!
Now that we are talking about Tobey Maguire I would love to see a reaction to the movie he was in from 1998, called Pleasantville. It has the most amazing picture and colors. I wonder if you guys have seen it.
I'm sure we all saw it
@@glitterstarbeau I saw that movie on an Black-White-TV and still it was good, eventhough it was almost impossible to see the change to colour.
In regards to superhero therapy: What about the family dynamic between Black Widow and her adopted family? They definitely need therapy. I know you already did one focused on BW as a hero, but what if you were looking at their dynamic as a family?
Psychiatrist: I've worked with a lot of Russian Sleeper Cell families in the past... The one thing they all have in common-
thissss
"When Harry met Sally". How they both grow and develop as friends and then as a couple is really interesting.
Agreed
Yeees, it would be so fun to see it analyzed. Love that movie.
When Harry Met Sally is amazing. It really is enemies to lovers done very right
Hey internet dads!
Thank you both so much for everything you do.
Thank you Jono for all the deep insights that help me see situations in my life for what they really are.
Thank you Alan for helping me appreciate movies and acting and all the work that goes into the stories that I love so much. You say a lot that we're all here for the therapy part but I just wanted you to know that I really appreciated your experience and trained eye too. You also help me see and understand things better. You help me love my favorite stories more. Thank you. I just... I know it's mostly just a joke that we're only here for Jono and his therapy but, just in case you need to hear it, it wouldn't be the same without all your jokes and experience and tears.
Love you both in Christ and I hope to meet you here, there, or in the air ♥
Wendy
I'm a DV survivor and my partner had ongoing substance abuse issues. I stayed maybe too long, but ultimately, my deciding factor was when I knew I could never trust my partner again. Even if the abuse was only from their addiction, and even if it all stopped, I would not be able to see the best in them anymore.
It ended up being the best decision - my former partner is still making excuses for substance use and I have the space, time, and energy to work on my own healing.
13:43 "I CAN'T *SURVIVE* WITHOUT YOU" - that line is DANGEROUS! AND very strong worded, not at all subtle...
If you NEED someone to complete you or even *survive* / feel safe etc.
it implies there is a lack of something in that person,
so it's not I WANT to be with you , but I HAVE/ NEED to be with you - which isn't a choice at this point it's basically using someone as a human *life support* ...
AND basically a hidden threat- aka "if you ever leave me, I seize to be" (almost like a sucide threat)....
AND then she goes back to " I am brave enough, let's face the struggles together!" ? What? So is she the little helpless Bella or is she the grown up woman who doesn't have to be shielded from real? Idk but this sort of confuses me. Which one is it now ?
you should definitely do a couples therapy for a Jane Austen movie relationship. Pride and Prejudice/Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy would be a good one, I think.
That would be fantastic! I’d also love the couples from sense and sensibility
Yass!! I second this!
And Anne Elliot and Captain Wentworth from Persuasion, why they struggle so much to restart their relationship after years of separation.
Wow. I didn't expect this one to hit so hard! My husband and I have one of these complicated relationships, and we are trying to figure out if we should stay together. My husband wants to, but I'm the one who has been hurt by the addictive behaviour and abuse. My parents straight up told me I had to stay married because "God hates divorce," so I know they will not support me if I end up deciding to leave. That's really hard.
And Alan, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that you were an addict.
I hope you guys have been able to find him the help he needs so you two can share life together without him needing to cope with substances. If he wants to get better then it makes sense why he wants to stay with you, it's a life commitment. But if someone doesn't want to get better, makes no moves to heal, continues doing the same things the same way, which are in turn abusing you? Then I think God would understand if you decided to protect yourself and He would give you the signs you need.
@@vzade He actually has been able to get help! Found a new therapist, stopped living in denial, and told me everything. It is amazing to me that so much has changed in just 4 months!
@@theladyamalthea 😍 my heart is so happy for you. That is beautiful!! I hope you both continue to fall in love again and again🤗
@@vzade Thank you! I hope so, too. 😊
Love this idea!
Movie couples for therapy:
Will Turner and Elizabeth Swan (POTC)
Allie and Noah (The notebook)
Shrek and Fiona
Harry and Sally from When Harry Met Sally
All of these
I've got another idea. Couples therapy for Davy Jones and Calypso.
Seeing that scene between the Peters just felt so good. I didn't realize I needed all 3 Spidermans together in one movie until I saw No Way Home two days ago. It was a relief to hear that Toby-Peter and MJ took the time to work through it together.
And then that movie left me crying over Tom-Peter.
I swear to the crispy nougat of infinity that if they don't fix that in the Multiverse of Madness, I will flip tables in every reality.
to be honest,i sont want it to be fixed though.if its "fixed" in anyway it should be peter who is trying to reconnect with the people in his life
If this is fixed in any sense it shouldn't be in MoM but in a spiderman focused movie
Get to flipping, buddy
I feel like I’m one of the few that actually somewhat likes this romance (from a narrative perspective).
It’s messy, frustrating, tragic, and full of starts and stops. However I’d imagine that is kind of what it’s like dating a superhero.
Also, Peter and MJ are ultimately very complicated (at times selfish) people, but they’re the only ones who actually GET each other. It’s not ideal, but it is somewhat realistic.
That’s exactly what I always think aswell when rewatching the trilogy and MJ and Peters relationship. People hate in the relationships because of how it doesn’t progress exponentially. But that is not how real relationships are. You have struggles, miscommunications. All of those hardships and more are part of being in a romantic consensual relationship. It’s not just: wow we’re together now and everything is gonna be perfect. I love the more realistic approach to their relationship and how Sam Raimi and the writers depicted it.
Also the fact that their so young. It's so much more realistic (to my experiences anyway) than those stories where they met as teens and fell in love and everything went perfectly. Or they had one rough patch, but learnt from it and never made any mistakes again, happily ever after, etc.
@@helenl3193 Yeah exactly. Learning isn’t always a once off thing. Making mistakes several times can maybe even be later on the thing that people recognize as something they need to work on. And they might even fall back to previous habits and behaviors. Especially in adolescent relationships.
@@kilso9357 The show "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" had a song for this: the troubled couple decides to marry!
The fantasy song was "We'll Never Have Problems Again!"
a suggestion for a movie to couple therapy: eternal sunshine of the spotless mind - id love to see your insights both in the movie making choices and in the relationships choices
I like the sassy editor. They gave me some good chuckles in this one. "*Friendly dad laugh sounds*" 😆 Willing to die on the Tobey Maguire as Spider Man hill lol
I don't know about 'couple' but doing a breakdown of Goofy and Max's relationship vs Pete and PJ's, plus the parenting styles pros and cons of each dad would be great.
@AnnieNunyabiz I second this! It's a rich story to analyze. Also, I'd love to see Jon and Alan dance to "Stand Out" and "I2I". (5/4/2022)
That would be great!
Omg that’s such a great idea!! I would LOVE to see this.
Yes! I just watched these movies lol.
"Doey blue eyes" would actually fit very well, since a German expression of looking at someone with naive adoration is: "Jemanden mit Rehaugen anstarren." "To look at someone with doe eyes."
Yeah- he corrected himself and the editor made them look like "dough," but "doe eyes"- "eyes like that of a young deer" is a perfectly normal phrase. Not "doughy" but "doe-y."
That's what I was thinking but didn't know where it came from.
I'd love to see you do couples therapy on When Harry Met Sally because I can never decide if their relationship is healthy or not 😅
Omg if you guys went through the various couples in “He’s Just Not That Into You,” you could tackle so many different types of relationships.
The funny thing about not telling her his identity for fear that his enemies will target her seems to have the opposite effect. They are targeting her constantly anyway and she doesn't even know why, making her even less safe. Even the enemies seem to know that Spiderman is in love with her.
To be fair, in the second film, Doc Ock was trying to get to Spider-Man through Peter Parker through MJ, and the problem there was that Peter wasn't keeping his "I'm Spider-Man's photographer" connection secret. If Doc Ock hadn't made that connection (which MJ also knew about), he wouldn't have gone after her.
It was only really in the first movie where a villain (Green Goblin) realized that Spider-Man himself was in love with MJ, and, again, it required first finding out that Parker was Spider-Man.
Well and at the end of the 3rd film too... And her getting captured by Venom and Sandman resulted in Harry getting killed. So much for "Can't you respect me enough to make my own decisions?" Great job MJ 😔
@@blindslowhappy6842 yeah, but knowing he was Spider-Man didn't exactly prevent that.
@@Nimelennar Sorry but I don't understand that sentence.
@@blindslowhappy6842 The first poster said that not telling MJ that he's Spider-Man is making her less safe. In the third movie, she knows, but it doesn't seem to make her any safer.
I would love for you to give movie therapy to Buttercup and Westley from The Princess Bride. As iconic as that movie is I always felt like their relationship was lowkey toxic? She was super mean to him, fell in love randomly, he kidnapped and threatened to hit her, she forgave him no hard feelings, they were separated, she almost pulled a Romeo and Juliet, etc etc. and it was always brushed off as super romantic (for the sake of the story, which is perfect) but still - from a reality standpoint a rollercoaster I would personally not want to be tall enough to ride.
It's satire...
@@23rsnyder omg yes Ofc!! - it’s obviously fiction and entertainment and one of the best movies ever - I just thought it might be interesting to bring it into a real world context - :) I do know its not serious at all lol
That entire movie is a satire
Yes! Westley and Buttercup would be ideal!
@@amystiller8389 Yeah, their relationship would be a big NO in real life. :)
I love when spiderman is struggling to hold up the wall from crushing MJ and when he replies "I love you" his voice is shaking and has that strange breathing from struggling to hold something so heavy. Great job Toby!
I love this episode and how insightful I am. However on a related note I would also love to see them do one on Doctor Otto Octavius, touching on things such as ego, grief, and outside influence. I mean, Otto has always fascinated me on a psychological level.
"She can't be clueless that he's crazy about her" y'all underestimate the steaming pile of trash that is a teenage girl's self-esteem. Same with Bella in twilight. We're inherently wired to think people don't like us and that we should be better. Stupid though that us.
Yep, back in school I literally got told "I like you and want to go on a date with you" and my response was to get annoyed because I thought I was being pranked
oh yeah, was really confused when they said that in the twilight videos as well, as though puberty doesn‘t mess up literally everyone. and MJ lives in an abusive home at that time, so her self-worth and self-image will be probably even more distorted.
@@inkythoughts Bella was 18 and she knew better, yet kept going back, that is completely on her, let’s not forget Bella isn’t an example of fine female characters fleshed out and challenged
No, not so much "inherently wired", but rather taught and reinforced from extremely young ages to seek out external approval and validation, particularly from boys/men.
@@ninjanibba4259 in the beginning, Bella is 17 and the type of self-esteem issues that is installed in pretty much most teenage girls from very early on takes quite a while to unlearn. I'm still surprised when someone goes out of their way to flirt with me and I'm 25, even if I don't have the knee-jerk reaction of "oh they are just messing with me, they actually hate me and want to give me false hopes" anymore.
You don't magically become "grown up" mentally when you turn 18 and can absolutely accurately predict how other people see you. Hell, there's an entire beauty industry that still makes grown women believe that something is considerably wrong with their face or their body or their hair so they buy the products.
The freaking editor of this episode has sent me into a coughing fit 🤣 hats off to the amazing CinemaTherapy team
The DOUGH EYES!!! 😂
If you watch with captions on... 🤌✨
@@rosefong65 Now I need to rewatch 🤣🤣
I was watching Independence Day, and was like what kind of couple therapy could yall do with these 3 couples? Especially with Jeff Goldblum's character. Love this channel by the way!
I'd love it if you fellows covered the relationships (romantic, friendship, familial) in The Princess Bride. Buttercup and Westly, Miracle Max and Valerie, Fezzick and Inigo- these relationships all have complicated dynamics that would be wonderful to see your perspectives on.
So, about being in an abusive relationship: I was hit by my boyfriend once, and can honestly say that he lost control because he did it in front of my dad (no one in their right mind hits a woman in front of her father). I burst in to tears, and so did my boyfriend. I thought about it for a couple of days, then ended the relationship. In hindsight, there were other little things that were making me uneasy that later became very clear: if I had stayed there would have been a very real risk for ongoing abuse. However, having been in that situation before I feel I have no right to tell someone else what to do - like you guys said. My story can help inform another person's decision, but it's ultimately their decision.
Even though I don't know you, reading that you were able to decide to leave gave me a sense of relief.
Thanks. Mom, for raising me with empathy!
Okay, now I want to read/watch a story about Peter Parker's therapist who is also the therapist for one of his super foes.
So the therapist knows who both of them are when they fight each other and manages to mediate between them and de-escalate their conflict so no one gets hurt.
Okay that’s actually brilliant and someone should get on AO3 for that
That's great! 😃
I remember watching the Spiderman Trilogy when I was very young and because of this video I feel like I have to watch them again now as a 24 yr old. By the time I reached a time period when I start to understand a movie or a book properly MCU started. I have only loved Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland as Spiderman even though Tobey is the original Spiderman.
I would really love to see Cinema Therapy do a video on Gwen and Peter relationship because Gwen basically knew about Peter being Spiderman from the start and I loved how she wasn't a typical Damsel in Distress like I have seen MJ be in all 3 movies.
Though I have changed my opinion on both MJ and Gwen of the Trilogy now thanks to Cinema Therapy. Man my brain didn't even take in these wonderful lines from the those movies.
I love the Editor's notes every time Alan says something about Tobey being Spiderman, love you Editor 👌
Now THIS is a prime example of "I didn't know how much I've needed something until I received it." Peter and MJ are a CLASSIC pop culture couple. Y'all took home the W for making this video hands down.
I've always been a little hung up on when MJ is engaged to John Jameson in Spider-Man 2, she asks Peter if he loves her and after he says no, she tries to kiss him. Then at the end she runs all the way to his apartment in her wedding dress leaving John at the altar. I understand how it's supposed to be somewhat melodramatic and hyper romantic but like there's better ways to leave your fiance than right before the ceremony.
Incidentally I'd love to see a Movie Couples Therapy episode on Batman and Rachel Dawes in the Dark Knight Trilogy (I know they weren't really a couple but I find how those movies present a relationship that more or less didn't or couldn't happen because of Bruce's issues interesting).
That scene is so fucked up, it really sours the ending for me.
Yeah, I remember as a kid, I considered John to be the douchebag who got in the middle of this when MJ should be with Peter. But John is a genuinely great guy, a successful astronaut who could have anyone and chose to be married young to MJ, meaning he had genuine love towards her. And she probably created some extremely long lasting issues with him, all to mess with Peter’s head. MJ is not a good person, she cheats on someone in every movie and she stood that poor guy up on their wedding day.
I'm one of those people who will die on the hill for Spider-Man 2, but that aspect of the ending is definitely a weak point that's hard to defend. It's just following the Rom-Com tropes with no thought given to the context and it does hurt the movie.
This ending does make more sense when you realize from the commentary that they were originally going to have Jameson be a jerk to her, so you wouldn't have had sympathy for him at the end, but Dunst didn't want it to be so black and white because she didn't want to seem like she was always gravitating towards people who abuse her.
I do think Dunst's suggestion was a good one, but it really did require the original ending to change to account for that.
I like to think (and it's over a decade since I last watched the movie, so there could well be something that contradicts it) that JJ sent her away rather than her leaving unilaterally.
@@rmsgrey That absolutely would have been better. Like, him realizing she wasn't happy with him and choosing to let her go because he cares about her would have made the ending so much better. Hell, you could even have him say back to her what the therapist said to Peter, "You've always got a choice."
But no, you can see from his expression when he reads the letter that she didn't tell him she was going to do that.
Both of your absolute delight in the Spiderman 3 jazz scene made my day, since I've always loved that scene and found it so underrated. Great analysis.
You guys are so open and honest about your own experiences in these videos, its truly wonderful to witness.
I can't wait for the Peter and Gwen Stacy episode. As an avid defender of the TASM duology (with major flaws and all) ever since they came out, and especially when NWH made new TASM/Garfield resurgence.
Those movies were carried hard by the amazing actors. Garfield's spiderman is still my favourite Peter/Spiderman. Peter and Gwen's relationship was really the heart of those two movies. Can't wait to see you guys watch them!
I'm right there with you. I personally believe TASM1 is the best live action Spider-Man movie but is just dragged down by TASM2.
@@gryfon_gamez8184 honestly, despite all the flaws. I genuinely love TASM 2 a lot. With all the contrived, messy story plots and awful universe building by Sony, the good stuff about TASM 2 is fantastic!
The action, cinematography, Andrew giving raw emotionality to the character, Peter and Gwen's relationship in general, and let's not forget that ballsy move of killing off Gwen.
All that amazing stuff is what helps me overlook the bad stuff of TASM 2.
@@rowiequierez5920 Yeah there was a good movie there in the hours of unused footage but what Sony made Mark Webb publish is just a mess. We need a TASM2: Webb Cut just like how we got the snyder cut
@@gryfon_gamez8184 And one of my favourite scenes in TASM 2 that doesn't get recognized at all with Garfield's version is the first meeting with Electro. Not the fight itself, which is still a fricken' sweet fight. It's when he talks to him before that. Peter tries to deescalate the situation by getting to his level.
And if you notice his many fights throughout the two movies. He's not the instigator in those fights. He tries to talk to his enemies through empathy and understanding (at least the Electro one is what I see) but when he has no choice but to fight, he'll do it to protect himself and the people around him.
I love TASM Peter's willingness to connect with the people of New York, with random strangers (as he did with Jorge, the kid that was bullied on the street) and especially with his enemies. It emphasizes the "Friendly Neighborhood" aspects of this character. When Electro was in distress, in my headcanon from that scene, Peter recognizes Max's loneliness. How did it feel to be an outcast as Peter was himself? How both were shunned by society and fell through unfortunate circumstances. The only difference is that Peter had a healthy circle of support, whereas Max didn't (through context clues of just one movie) so Peter would try to help Max in that way.
@@rowiequierez5920 we didn't get enough of that sadly, instead of helping him in the end he killed him
"I know you think we can't be together but can't you respect me enough to let me make my own decisions"
I've watched this movie so many times but only now I realize how powerful this line is
It’s not powerful at all from her mouth, the scene before and the entire trilogy proves why, she’s terrible
bc she wants to be with peter even tho it is not the smartest thing to do but the thing her heart asks
also, mj has a long history of trauma bc of her father
@@ninjanibba4259 She's not terrible, you're just a misogynist.
thats misogyny, why does her trauma impacts u more than the fact that peter beated her accidentally
Your videos have been SO helpful, I can't thank you guys enough. Right now my partner and I are going through a rough patch and sadly finances and lack of openings have been preventing us from going to therapy (couples and indiv) right away. We are currently on the waiting list, but your videos have been helping us so much to navigate our minds and emotions in the meantime, and already we are just communicating better than before. My partner and I are filmmakers (him more than me) but his mind truly works through the vehicle of movies and shows, so these videos really help him grasp certain concepts so much better than before. Also, thank you Alan for you vulnerability on the show. It's been helping my partner see that it's okay to feel and openly acknowledge that deep of an emotion within himself (my partner being a straight man with a 'traditional (but not healthy) upbringing)) I'm sorry for the dump, but I really just wanted to express just how grateful I am that I've come across your videos right when I felt like there was no hope
As someone who’s been wanting to get into dating, and who is currently in therapy, I really like y’all’s relationship videos. It gives me a good way to check myself and my behaviors for when I eventually take that step in addition to the other skills I’ve been building up. So, I appreciate what y’all do and thank for it.
Can’t resist asking for a Sherlock/Watson couples counselling Cinema Therapy session from the Guy Ritchie movies please!
i want sherlock/watson couples counseling but from the SHERLOCK bbc TV series
@@ariannasantina I second Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock 🥴
@@ariannasantina lol this XD
@@ariannasantina yeeeessssssssssssss! Johnlock pls and ☺️
@AsparagusAnonymous Oh, definitely. I can only imagine the laughs they'd have over Jude Law and Robert Downey Jr. (5/4/2022)
I want you to explore the relationship of Scott Pilgrim and Ramona Flowers. So much to talk about between those two. A girl who just escaped an abusive relationship and a guy who is completely unaware that he is a jerk. Scott treats Ramona pretty well, at least better than who evil exes, and Romano is constantly worried that Scott is just gonna be evil like all the rest of her partners. I've seen that happen in real life, but without the video game sound effects.
Thank you for saying Scott is a jerk, I see that unfortunately rarely.
It's a shame so many people didn't get (from the movie) that Scott is a jerk and downright asshole at times. So many people (teenage me included) just saw "nerd power!" without realising Scott is not someone you should aspire to be. Actually I feel this is a result of an overarching problem, where a lot of media over time has been showing geeks/nerds as bullied so often that many people (perhaps not consciously) automatically assume being one equals with being a victim and thus deserving some kind of reparation from society or individuals. I know I've been guilty of it. It's become a sort of toxic subculture trait of its own, and I don't see it addressed nearly enough. Jocks can be bullied and nerds can be bullies, because neither is defined by being a victim or aggressor.
I'd say Scott could definitely use some couples therapy.
At the same time, ramona wasn’t exactly a saint either. (Several exes she cheaten on or used and tried to downplay for her own role.)
@@BW-CZ That's funny because from what I've seen the unanimous opinion is that Scott is an unintentional asshole.
"Romano" lmao
It’s like he’s one of those guys that says “oh he doesn’t deserve you. you should be with me I’ll treat you better than he does” and doesn’t realize that he’s being both a creep and a jerk
I love the honesty that you both put on this channel. You're amazing☺️
As someone going through a big change in my life where I'm looking to heal myself, grow beyond past mistakes, and seek forgiveness from the people who matter to me, I really love the things you guys discuss about relationships and growth. It helps me see a lot of the things I feel I'm doing right, which helps me feel confident in my progress, but also gives me advice for areas I feel I'm still struggling. I love this channel and everything you discuss
There might not be enough to work with but Hiccup and Astrid from the How to Train Your Dragon series have such a refreshingly supportive relationship for an animated movie series it’d be neat to examine
I'm loving the Editor's Notes... "This opinion is wrong", "Anything less than Tobey worship will not be tolerated" and the "False information" notice! Hahaha!! 😂😂🤣 Genius.
As for movie couple ideas... This may be too "classic" for you guys but, I would absolutely love if you did an analysis of Nick and Nora Charles from "The Thin Man" movies! One of the most delightful movie couples in movie history and one of the few already married couples to be the focus of a movie series (rather than a boyfriend/girlfriend). Or for something more recent, Harry and Sally from "When Harry Met Sally" would be a perfect couple to analyze since both of their neuroses are kinda laid out so perfectly in that film! 😆
I second the Nick and Nora idea!
I third the Nick and Nora suggestion! The Thin Man movies are hysterical and the banter between these two is perfect writing!
Yes yes yes!
If I could give this a thousand likes... Nick and Nora are THE BEST!
The editing in this video was great! You can really see the personality they put into it