Not Everyone Should Code
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2018
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It’s become popular to encourage anyone and everyone to code. But there simply won’t be unlimited demand for the skill, nor will everyone actually enjoy it.
*The end of this video includes a paid sponsored promotion. This company had no part in the writing, editing, or production of the rest of the video.
Credits
Music is Sunrise Drive, South London HiFi
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SkillShare link is skl.sh/polymatter4 - I was kinda amazed to find out Kurzgesagt (In a Nutshell) has a SkillShare course on animation :o
PolyMatter - Hi, can you please add in closed captionings for this video , thank you!
PolyMatter how you make these videos
Lol, that seamless blend into the Skillshare ad was brilliant. :)
I disagree with this video. Learning code isn't about the job you get. Sure that's nice, but that's not why people should learn to code. Also the "critical thinking skills" line is just a line. Coding might teach that, but not as much as other things. If coding teaches basic cognitive skills, it's an understanding of algorithms.
The real reason everyone should learn to code is the same reason anyone who owns a car should know how to change a tire and a few other basic auto maintenance skills. The same reason everyone who owns a home should know basic home repair.
Everyone doesn't have to be fluent in multiple programming languages but having a loose familiarity with a few of the most common can help people understand how the computerized layer of society works.
Most important, mass teaching of code to young people will help that generation be more accepting of technological change and less likely to become neoluddites when automation takes over. They'll have a basic understanding of the logic structures automation is built on and the engineering behind the machines, and that will hopefully avoid having any new John Henry wannabes.
PolyMatter I totally disagree with u on this video, I think just like u learn maths and science, u should also learn coding, just at a later stage. With that said, I agree totally with that 60 minutes class bit
coding is basically:
> stackoverflow;
> trying to find the error on line 32;
> stackoverflow;
> dealing with MS office BS when trying to present your product to the customer;
> stackoverflow;
> indian youtuber showing the error you're trying to solve;
> stackoverflow;
Eduardo Rezende wow this is quite accurately me last semester 😂😂😂
And a lot of mdsn
Don't be like Eduardo, this is how spaghetti happens.
*sTaCk OvErFlOw*
Lmao dude like 75% of programming videos on youtube are made by indian ahahah
"Everyone should code!"
- Tech companies that know that more programmers means lower wages
"Not everyone should code!"
- The programmer who knows that less programmers means higher wages
eventually it will happen
@Confidential Name
Please take your meds next time.
@Confidential Name machine translation is notoriously awful, you can only use google translate or others for everyday shit, but if you wanted to translate books or other things where the language is more nuanced you still need a human translator. We're still very very far off from the future where machines can take over complex jobs like translation and programming
@Confidential Name well, yes we got an AI which can do some basic stuff. but they can't replace the job completely, because we can't trust it the same as a human. To ride wit auto-piolt you still have to be ready that the program will make a mistake and ride yourself. It will take long time until we get a trustworthy AI, and more until we get complex AI which can take a complex job on it's own.
A
@@rodrigozanabria2978 Google Translate is not the benchmark and hasn’t been for a long time. Professional translators use machine translations to do the majority of the work for them. They just go through and tidy things up afterwards.
Don’t learn to code so I can get a job with less competition, thank you
You can also learn to code and get a job with less competition.
web development sure has a lot of competition, but other areas such as database administration or data mining have much less competition
Facts 😂
But I’m actually interesting in learning how it works. The “high salary” is just a bonus.
@@rahel7443 :)
Not everyone should code
*Recommended for you*
Wait what...
Ha! now I know before i try
Right when I searched up why coding tutorials are confusing.. I'm still going to try to make a small game, just with less code
same
I’ve been thinking the same thing as the video so I’ll take it as confirmation that I’m right.
Press F
I smelled Skillshare from a mile away.
Devansh Kamdar ikr? Lol
Even from half of the video I just knew it
Devansh Kamdar
It’s just that type of video
I guessed brilliant ngl
-1.61 km-
roses are red;
violets are blue
i forgot a semi-colon;
on line number 2;
relatable
why do we even need semicolons?
Is it java?
@@xexpaguette its to tell the computer that you've finished this "sentence", its like a period or full stop but for computers
Imagine using semi-colons
- this post was written by python gang
@@praxition1416 lol
Programming is like cooking. Not everybody should be a chef, but basic cooking skills are incredibly useful in life, and it's the same for basic scripting and programming.
Basic cooking skills aren't necessarily "useful", considering there are many fast food places that will sell you food for extremely cheap. Sure, your lifespan will probably decrease incredibly if you continue to eat fast food over and over, but that's what it's like for the average person.
@@asciidude It's very useful. Unless you live in an area with a culinary scene like Singapore, it'll almost always be both cheaper and healthier to cook on your own, hence why almost everyone does.
@@asciidude so, basic cooking skills arent "necessarily useful" since it just "decreases my lifespan"?
@@planefan082 I'm not so sure about cheaper, but I'm also 15. I just assumed it was cheaper for fast food rather than making your own - after what I've heard from peoples experiences.
@@fatir004 I believe there are ways to "regain" that lifespan without spending money. I may be wrong
As a programmer myself, I'm in favor of schools teaching basic programming skills as a mandatory course, but not so that everybody can become a programmer. Rather, I think that so much of our world is run on code that it's important to "demystify" it.
And also basic programming skills would be basic algorithms and logic, which can be useful for non-programmers. So win-win anyway
And a communication aid. In my software engineering major in college, we needed to take computer architecture so we can kinda talk with the hardware guys. And the it security branch has basic economics as a mandatory course so they can talk with business people
I was taught how to write programs etc when I was about 12, stopped after a while, now I'm doing it again at 17
yes just like basic science is taught, which makes us understand how things works, coding should be taught to teach how programs work since they are very much integrated in our life now
I think it's useless. I mean how many kids complain about having to do maths and science? They forget everything after they graduate anyway. There's no point teaching these subjects to people who aren't interested. Basic maths and science should be taught but everything else is useless for the average person who isn't smart enough nor interested enough to do any of these type of subjects. Imagine forcing the average high school kid to learn coding on top of science and maths, they'd hate it
programming in movies: *I JUST BREACHED THE MOST SECURE FIREWALL AND HACKED INTO THE WHITE HOUSE BANK AND CRASHED THE STOCK MARKET AND BLEW UP THE ISS*
programming in real life: oh i forgot to close my for loop
Oh i forgot ;
rayan its not numbers its binary and computer programming is just computer language and it aint easy
rayan im a computer programmer and a robot programmer you only see it on movies that is just numbers use some brain ok it aint easy do you think its easy it can take a week even months or years you little shit
@@fbi_2rex489 If your a computer and robot programmer you should be smarter. Realise that rayan is referring to how it looks in movies not in real life "you little shit"
@@fbi_2rex489 Hey bro, I know you misunderstood, but he meant the scrolling 1s and 0s is in movies. You know like the matrix.
Everyone wants to be a programmer until they have to program
Yep that’s true,
Yeah, I remember when I first started out and holy shiii that sucked a ton because I was learning Python v3, HTML, and PBASIC all at once while learning hard ware engineering.
omfg this hit. this hit like a truck. wth am i doing here, with pycharm opened in the background and a program to be made. I'm so predictable...
Edit: 11 months late I’m a failure and the program was never made. Haven’t coded in months. Also severely depressed. Gg boiiiis
You are right
It was the opposite for me.
I only started to like programming when I first tried it at uni. Before that I thought it would just be really tedious and boring
Tech Companies: "Everyone should learn how to program."
Also Tech Companies: "Increased demand. Decreased supply. Awesome. We pay everyone less."
It's like everyone should making money themself, so there's no more poor peoples anymore
@@yp4279 ...dude what
Tech companies will ofcourse focus for their profit
The way he introduced Skillshare was so smooth it made the whole video look like an ad.
Thats Because it is an ad
If you throw a stone in India it is more likely to hit a software engineer than any normal person
Priyanka Shukla software engineering is the “normal”
Don’t woooosh me
Indian guys on youtube are savers tho
Well that line was a Student and in a particular area but it's still somewhat accurate. Let me remember it was from a series Kota factory
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I once worked with an Indian programmer with an "advanced" Computer Science degree that could barely get around their own computer.
"Coding" can be everyone's basic skill. "Programming"? Good luck coping with that.
You know how to speak English but writing a good book is not an easy job.
hard to argue with this
That's a really good analogy
True.
A perfect comparison between just "coding" and actually "bringing a product to market". A big difference!
The "art of programming" involves solving actual problems, by mastering the platform's hardware and software capabilities and its limitations. So yeah, there's a lot more to programming than just banging out some code on the keyboard, from using web API's effectively to creating a compelling UI's, captivating graphics, great music, etc, etc. Otherwise everybody would be a Stephen King or James Patterson of writing, but it's the content you write not just a bunch of words.
I always say to my non-coding friends that a coder is someone who can write code; a programmer is someone who knows how to fix their code, to plan their code, and to market their code.
How about, instead of "everyone should code", "everyone should understand how computers work?" In the same way we should have a rudimentary knowledge of a wide array of subjects to help us thrive in complex societies.
Yeah that's what education is, but unfortunately people are way too uninterested in actually learning and just want the 'essentials'
computers are probably the only tech that people expect to use without acquiring any skill or knowledge
@@martinkunev9911 I know right. Imagine if there was no driving licence.
My grandfather is beginning to succumb to dementia, he's had his driving licence taken away for the good of his health. But he's still using his computer, and it's costing him thousands as he falls into scam after scam. It's heartbreaking.
This is more of a problem for boomers. Most people learn about computers by using them since they're so common nowadays.
even that's a little complex when you dive in deeper, most kernals are made in c/c++, you know how memory in them works? Its kinda complex ngl, 2 data structures, Stack and Heap and it also has many other parts. What is a 8-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit integer? 8-bit integers contains 8 bits, 1 bit either contains 0 or 1, then there is signed and unsigned integers. 8-bit integer ranges from -127 to 127 (for signed integers), and no, its not memorized there's a formula for it, 2^n-1 in positive and (2^n-1)-1 in negative, in unsigned integers it ranges from 0 to 256, formula, 2^n. Wanna know how images are displayed? they are 3d arrays, or 2d matrix. How gpu helps? it deals with Graphics or whats displayed on the screen, so they need to be VERY good at matrix opperations.
I've been programming for 40 years, professionally for 31. I have a BS and MS in CS. I have never, ever, ever "solved complex mathematical problems". Unless, of course, "mathematical problems" is defined in some novel equivocal way. I agree programming is harder than 14 weeks, but I'm not sure our host has really explained Why it is.
I was looking for this comment. I was thinking the same thing.
Alright grandpa, we heard you. Lets just go to sleep already
"solving complex mathematical problems" is more for FAANG coding interviews than the work itself imo
@@hil449 even for faang, most of the time, you wont complex math interviews, its mostly data structures and algorithms. math heavy question might appear in fintech interviews or competitive programming afaik and of course some esoteric research fields or industries.
@@cjhohd2601 lol why do him like that
*Weird bug in code*
Me: Right, guess I'll try look for that...
*Half an hour passes*
Me: OHHHH, I wrote a 2 instead of a 4...
I had a couple of those issues last week...
Toxic Pixel Media
That’s exactly why I looked this video up lol
The lifestyle of a programmer
I once suffered through a glitch in my code for months before finding that I had typed 1 (as in "one") instead of l (lower case L)
Once i did a loop for(x=0;y
Do you know what our teacher calls "computer science"? Microsoft word and excel🤦♂️😂
really??
@@name-eo1lv yep
Basically how people stereotype computer studies. Like a programmer in movies is seen typing 10 buttons in 3 seconds and hacked something.
Because you solve your problem on word or excel 🤣
my sides
Coding is very difficult to learn. However, whats nice is that you only need to learn it once. After that it's incredibly easy to replicate and people still think you're a wizard.
not really. I'm never "done" and unfortunately I don't ever think I will be. I constantly have to learn new tools for different projects.
@@laur-unstagenameactuallyca1587
Although when you have a foundation built on data structures and algorithms, language matters less.
@@Demopans5990 this
@@hil449 self
You are no wizard.
I truly believe that you don"t know if "programming is for you" or not until you're in too deep to back down, and that goes for most skills. So, in my opinion, everyone who is curious should at least give it a shot, and making it a school subject could provide an outlet for that.
That moment when you realize that the whole video was just an ad for Skillshare.
I had to roll down too much to find this.
*The end of this video includes a paid sponsored promotion. This company had no part in the writing, editing, or production of the rest of the video
@@TheP0lix yes. Way more than i expected
FlappyPhantom
I can understand why you would think that...If this is the first Polymatter video. But I think your opinion would change after you viewed some of Polymatter’s other videos. If anything, I think Skillshare should be given kudos for recognizing a high production value video with a highly relevant topic to buy ad placement.
IM not complaining
We all love programming until we hit that bug we can't figure out, that's when I start contemplating switching majors to art.
That is exactly the thing. It's about that point in time. If you really love programming, you wouldn't be budged so easily by one or two bugs giving you a hard time.
@@goji5887 agree with that
@@goji5887 Me: working 6 hours to fix three bugs that turned into 10 then 106 then finally fixed those sons of bitches
Agreed this is a patience game it can be very fun if you are logical and love extreme puzzles like how you can't get something to work and you test tons and tons of ideas and theories that fail but if you love the career you just want that satisfaction of finally getting it done without bugs or errors then all those hours were worth it for that satisfaction.
Lol, I had a bug where instead of comparing string sizes, I compare the string directly. ( in C++ ) took me a while to figure out the problem
I hit my desk so hard because of a bug in my code. (Hole in my desk now) later found it was a typo
I honestly think that if you get into programming without loving it, you're going to hate it. The sheer mental effort that you need to excel at requires passion for the subject, not just "oh, I want to make cash". For example, I love building things. I love making projects. I can easily spend 8-10 hours just programming per day without stopping when I'm working on a product. Would I be able to do it without that passion? Nope. Not at all.
At some point it may become like reading and writing though. Some kids don't like to read, they don't become literary critics in life but they still need to learn how to read. If you don't like math you need not become a mathematician or phycisist, but some exposure is still strongly recommended.
The same will probably apply for programming.
You don't "suddenly" love something for no reason. The more exposure, the more passion or love will grow
@@mitnick212 That's not always the case, the opposite can be true where the more you are exposed to it, the more resent you grow for it. Which can make you miserable. I think what they mean to say is that you need to be interested in it for the sake of coding, not money.
Programming is NOT easy money. It is long hours, and nights of wanting to pull your hair out
@@Karategirl5947 Yes, but people (and corps) make it out to be easy money, just like engineering when it can take real time and effort. That's the problem here. It's creating unfair/unrealistic expectations for people.
The worst thing is telling kids they can program while all they do is snap together a few code blocks
There's an evil company in India just doing that to hundreds of thousands kids, and they ask for ₹70,000 to ₹80,000 (1000 USD)
i feel jealous of those elementary kids learning about coding in school, reminds me of how older people told me they felt about not knowing how to use a computer
samee
same
I learned to code at a young age, but I think programming is a boring job. Coding is easy to learn though. Im pursuing an entertainment design career which takes a lot more work to learn, but it’s a cool job.
@@Purplesquigglystripe what made you decide on that instead?
I learned in fourth grade but forgot because I don’t have my own computer at home so now I’m trying to learn it again
Me while coding: omg this is so complicated I wanna quit.
Also me when I finished a simple program: PSH this is so EASY I can do this ALL DAY
Lolololololol same
print("hi")
I'M AMAZING AT THIS!
True that, there's just no inbetween!
Made a simple snake java
"Wow i wanted to make cyberpunk fortnite etc"
- some minecraft fortnite epic gamer hit rapper and artist dababy uncle
me when i first completed my 'hello world' program
My high school forced students to learn C# and I have to say this video is so right. Nobody ever asked "when are we gonna use this in real life" so often in one class period.
This goes for any class in HS, math, english, science, history, etc. But the point of these is to get students to explore new shit that they're interested in and may pursue that career in further education. Why learn Pythagorean theorem? Well, some dude in your class may be interested in construction, who knows.
That sponsor transition was so smooth I slipped on it and fell
Like seriously i made a skillshare joke 2 years ago and people STILL argue here wth is wrong with you guys
Same
same
I mean that's how he earns money. Just keep it running while you read the comments instead.
Why should someone make money for annoying people with useless, biased information? This type of advertising completely devalues the credibility of anything this channel says. It means that this channels producers don't have the integrity to distinguish between paid content and neutral information and sucker people into watching their ads.
If you don't like the content: don't watch the ads. If you do and would like to support the creator; then leave the ads running. Everything you see is biased, doesn't mean it's useless. Far from it.
Half of India has a degree in Software Engineering.
and they all suck at it
@@altcapright9114 Not all ...around 95%
Based on my shitty math skills thanks to me learning to code and not learn real math, I estimate that's about ... a fairly decent percentage of the world.
@@altcapright9114 Maybe you don't know the real programmers in India. Don't look for cheap stuff in the first place!
I have been in programming field since I was 8, I am still rookie as I spent time on many other stuffs, but I can assure that Indian programmers mostly are not good. I am Indian by the way
The Media: Coding is high paying, AND easy!
Us actual programmers: _Sits in front of computer crying for 3 hours_
tell me you're desperate for a job without telling me you're desperate for a job
just kidding, great video.
Should most kids learn to program: meh.
Should most kids learn fundamental skills like typing and logic puzzles: yes.
Typing and logic puzzles help with programming 100%, when you program you'll be trying to solve errors and be creative quickly
@@Omar-te1pp yep and the languages and technologies used in programming today often won't be used when those kids become adults but math and logic skills will still carry over
@@youngsuit I agree 100%
@@youngsuit yeah but the more technologies you use the more easier you gotta learn something new and become good at it
Very agree. If only they did that so I can know how to make effecient and non buggy ai.
When you open CZcams determined to learn coding and this vid pops up on your recommended videos -_-
@Winston Mcgee how do you learn outside of youtube. Google?
Technically you can learn "programming" just off of CZcams since plenty of people make great videos on different programming languages. You can also learn computer science, but there aren't that many good videos.
@My Leg Guy at school -.-
@Winston Mcgee I'm learning coding from youtube, like a lot. Also, it IS "coding". This is a natural course language took, not like the tens of new pronouns being thought of each day and made to be acknowledge, coding is understood, you stupid fuck.
@@John-kx9zj you can buy books though
The fact that I am recommended this video when I started to think about learning coding is scary.
Nothing is a coincidence
So relatable. I even recommend the same 3 subjects for schools. In fact, this was so relatable that I did not even hear anything new. It was just put in a structured and visually pleasing way.
I swear the best thing I made in a program was a Mike wazowski sprite that endlessly chased a shrek sprite.
Everyone after opening scratch
bruh share it 😂
Mine is probably a 100kb text editor
You cannot just tell us this without sharing it with us
I want it
"The most important class was debate" that's debatable.
The most important class is java
edit: no one got my joke
Honestly, debating also gives a huge impact on my life
@@nathanzotov1160 Can you explain my peanut brain doesnt understand
@@chopinfrederic5040 in Java, every piece of code needs to reside inside a "class".
"A point of view about a debatable topic"
This is why I want to do game design and not just programming. I like sciences and all but I think art just might be what I want.
Dude yes. I've learnt how to code using unity, a game engine I'm sure you've probably heard of. Not only have I learnt how to code but I've developed so many other skills like how to use complicated interfaces, art, sound design and more
Once you learn the basics of your language and engine, you can make alot of cool things
I cannot emphasize enough how important knowing a good bit of code is for game design, because then you know your limits and you don't have to code all the time as there are so many other things you can work on in a project.
And just have fun, and remember it will be hard but a little preservance goes a long way, it wasn't easy for me, but I absolutely love the talents I have now
Please don't give up :)
@@TheWeen344 tips on how to get to that level? I always find myself lost when it comes to Coding
My first commercial program was a 4 player volleyball game I wrote for a national magazine back in 1981. The magazine would publish games written in Basic for Radio Shack, Apple, and Atari computers. I learned a great deal by studying the listings.
1. Specialization is important
2. Learning to program does not guarantee a 6-figure job because it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
3. Not every important subject should be taught in school (?)
Programming also teaches patience, when you can’t solve a problem you go through multiple possible solutions, which can take hours.
And we developers do love estimations!
Agreed. I think it also teaches thinking about increasing possible outcomes by increasing one’s associative-thinking.
Programming also teaches patience, waiting for free assets xD
*which can take days
I think just being alive teaches you patience, like having to wait days for it to Friday afternoon 😢
I agree, everyone should be a
*pro* at *grammar*
Was searching for this one xD Wish I could make the same 'joke' in german, but it simply doesn't work xD
LMAO
I also love how you didn't capitalize.
James Hall Capitalisation isn't grammar, grammar is part of the structure of the language, not necessarily how it's written. Without capitals, it still makes grammatical sense, and in the same way too; therefore to omit a capital is not a grammatical mistake here.
@@aislingoda6026 Oh.
As a teacher, I feel basic programming and coding skills should be implemented in schools through science or math classes. The issue lies with the importance and stress of standardized exams. Less exams and more necessary courses
Actually, you answered a lot of questions that had been stressing me out in the recent time, not in terms of programming, but in terms of general life, thank you.
Not everyone can make that smooth ad transition effect.
RoboMex TV 😂😂😂
...but that's why you need a Skillshare account. Sign up in the next month to receive !
I didn’t even notice it when I started scrolling through the comments.
Not everyone should go to SkillShare either
Lol.
He's just advertising it because he needs some money to keep making vids.
Making video's is free
Someone Random But he needs money. If he doesn’t make money than why do this?
Thank you. Found it a bit ironical that he kinda criticised online courses that teach you coding in 14 weeks and then advertises for one...
What most expected before school:
learn ICT in school to make video games.
Schools:
learn ICT in to use MS Word.
ICT teachers in schools:
how do you make a zoom meeting once again?
I disagree with this. What about mandatory math taught in schools? It's not like literature, it won't help you to read and write, but it will shape the way see the world. I think programming should be taught in every school for this purpose alongside mathematics. We don't want everyone to be software developers, just like we don't want everybody to be mathematicians, but yet we still teach them the basics.
It doesn’t help if the child is not good at logic building and is good at art. It will just be a burden on him alongside match because he’s an artistic brain not a logical brain. And at the end of the day all he will learn is syntax,Just like English or any other language
@@EdwardSnowden125 a person s part of the brain that uses rational and decisional thinking isn t fully developted until 25. That means although genetics matters, it s really about what part of the brain you exercise the most too, until it reaches it peak.
@@iulianacostan6793 exactly ,then why arent we focusing on making artists and musicians instead of making everyone an engineer or doctor?
How does math change the way you perceive the world? Genuinely curious
@@gint6898 you would be surprised
The best Things about Programming is the feeling when you finaly solve a problem after some hours of troubleshooting!
I love that!
Minewalker Animations And the best things about policing is the feeling when you finally solve a problem after hours of shooting
Joking no hate pls
Completely disagree, the best thing about programming is when you have spent 6 hours building a system without ever running it, and everything works the first time you run it! :D
oh sheet can't relate that's like programming goals
Shaygah Hendricks Same xD I have yet to code for five hours without testing. Who does that?
I don't think that's just exclusive to programming as in you will def feel like heaven when you finally solve a problem you were agonizing with for hours.
Plot twist this whole videos was setup for the skillshare ad
xD
How tf did this // got 252 likes
Cuz is true
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xd
I think most people go into programming thinking it's about learning a programming language. The thing is, the demand is so high that they may learn a language, call themselves a programmer and be successful. This is a problem because it leads to poorly written software and poorly written software has become the norm.
I would argue digital security is a subject everyone should study (somewhat related to programming).
I would be very happy to see more abstract logic based subjects taught at schools in general.
The very basics of programming should be taught to everyone. It could just be (half) a semester: give everyone a IDE and a Python env and let them solve first a few exercises and finally a simple project.
Had this happened to me at school, I would have been hooked much earlier. Give a proto-nerd an IDE and a Python env, and he can directly go on to experiment with web scrawling, machine learning or creating a website. It would lower the barrier of entry drastically.
"everyone learns differently, and at a different pace, and likes different things"
Compulsory high school classes: *im about to end this mans entire career*
That’s basically comprising of trigonometry , algebra , calculus . That’s it right?
Save me from AP comp sci I’m ✨struggling✨
@@srinidhi5592 same
@@hilal_younus no, although each state is different. Mine required 3 years of history, 1 year of economics, one year of financial literacy, 1 year of sociology and psychology, 4 of language arts, 4 of math, 1 of gym, 1 of an additional language, 1 of art or music, and 3 of science
"Unlike reading and writing, it's too hard for everyone to learn it" I guess few hundreds years ago people would say the same about reading and writing
@jocaguz18 I disagree. Anyone can memorize syntax, but truly understanding programming languages (I say "languages" in plural because most of us know more than one) enough to be able to solve problems with it is not something everyone is capable of. Sure, you can hand some teenagers a PC with Scratch, but if you give them the logic behind a sorting algorithm and tell them to convert that to source code, and most of them wouldn't be able to solve that problem. And that's just something basic.
@jocaguz18 i think you are the one missing the point. Consider the following:
One, your argument that "everyone should code" is flawed when you begin to consider the oppurtunity cost. Learning a language, both programming and natural lanngue, requires a significant time investment that could be spent on other more valuable skills.
Two, unlike natural language, many programming languages and concepts require a certain mindset condusive towards the types of problems encountered by programmers. Recursion and pointers are typically considered the most confusing of programing conscepts for beginers. Amongst my peers, the ones most comfortable with those two concepts and with an innate tallent for comprehending them have become the most adpept programmers within my peer group.
Three, your claim that code is more like english because it is in english is remarkably asinine. I dont think english as a language has pointers, recursion, stacks, queues, loops, and about a dozen different data structures as key concepts to be known and understood before you can even begin to speek it fluently. Even knowing these core concepts there are still dozens of other useful tools and concepts that are required within varius other fields of expertise in computer science. Even between different languages you will find completely different concepts. For example, F# is nothing like C#.
Four, programming can be an incredibly time consuming and mentally exhausting task. Some people are not capable of working like this for extended periods of time. I dont mean they are stupid, but some people just hate this sort of work and would prefer to do something physical. For fucks sake, I ENJOY programming and there are days where want to get the fuck out of the computer lab and never look back after spending over 30 hours in it over the course of two days.
@jocaguz18 No, your point doesn't stand. Coding languages are a means to an end. Unless you're going to learn to build programs and solve problems with it, learning it (or rather, memorizing syntax) is pointless because you gain similar skills from learning regular spoken languages and memorizing other things. It's just as pointless as the fact that we teach high schoolers calculus when most of them will never use it if they don't pursue a degree in a STEM-related field. Calculus teaches you certain skills, yes, but it doesn't teach you how to file your taxes, manage finances, or even be a good person. Same with "coding". If we're gonna add something to the list of essential skills to be taught to everyone, it had better be life skills as opposed to more STEM-based courses that the overwhelming majority of people will never need to know or use in life. As interesting as learning about Nodes and Binary Search Trees was for a nerd like me in college, I wouldn't wish that on anyone who's not already interested in that sort of thing.
@jocaguz18 So because people don't learn Calc in high school where you are, that's suddenly a weakness in my argument? Well news flash, regular (non-STEM) high schoolers in many US school systems do and we don't even have that good of an education system. My argument stating that teaching high schoolers Calc is pointless isn't suddenly invalidated by the fact that high schoolers in some parts of the world don't have to learn it. I didn't say that we teach "all" high schoolers Calc and shouldn't, so I have no idea what you're getting at here by saying that invalidates my argument.
You say I committed a whataboutism fallacy, but you didn't even reference that fallacy correctly. Use the correct fallacy, or run back to r/iamverysmart because this is a comment section on CZcams. Nobody cares about logical fallacies. Everyone online who thinks they're smart references them as if they're a holy set of rules that should guide every conversation. In reality they're a tool used to create airtight arguments in formal debate or sophisticated discourse, but since you've already resorted to insulting almost everyone here who disagrees with you, this discussion is neither.
If you're accusing me of playing mental gymnastics, I think you should have a look at your display of plaques, trophies, and medals for the sport and be proud. You earned them.
If you want to take this discussion further respectfully, I'm open, but I've noticed that in online interactions if someone brings up logical fallacies, their IQ, or both during a discussion, they're probably completely incapable of respectful discourse and likely lack a lot of self-awareness. I've been unfortunate enough to run into your type a lot online.
@jocaguz18 Lol thanks for confirming my suspicion that you were indeed the exact type I thought you were. Congratulations. A "smart" guy who, even with all of his alleged intelligence, thinks because he's smart enough that he's above the idea of showing basic respect to the people he interacts with. A guy so smart that he lacks basic self-awareness. I've met plenty of them online and every time I find them less intimidating and more hilarious and pitiful.
You got into debate club in high school. Do you want a cookie? We're adults now, or at least I am. You're not gonna get any "cool kid" points for being in debate club when you were in school. That's laughable. This discussion is about what's going on right now, and your debate club membership clearly says nothing about your debate acumen as of now because it didn't change the fact that you're utterly incapable of respectful disagreement without resorting to insults. This just makes your bragging even more hilarious.
"You, at no point, made an argument to explain why it is not a important skill"
This right here shows that your debate club membership means nothing. You don't even understand your opponent's argument. I wasn't making the argument that it wasn't an important skill to have. Obviously I wouldn't think that as a programmer. I was making the argument that it wasn't an important skill for *everyone* to have, and I'd like to point out that you also have yet to prove why it is. And if you learned a single thing from your cute little debate club, you'd realize the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. You made both the positive claim and the first claim, so the burden of proof is on you to prove it, and not on me to disprove it.
Before you try to look cool and smart throwing logical fallacies into the arena, make sure you actually understand your opponent's argument.
And yes, making the argument that there *are* more important skills is a valid argument to make because I wasn't arguing against the importance of coding as a skill in the first place. If my ship has a 30-foot gash on the left side and a 3-foot scrape on the other, which one should I address first? People shouldn't be learning even rudimentary computer logic before they're taught basic common sense and life skills. Walk before you run.
And no, I don't just "think I'm smart". I don't care about that stuff anymore. There are people who aren't nearly as smart as me (at least in the ways society values) who are still much better people. If more folks cared more about being better people than they did about trying to be pseudo-intelligent and "logical" like your Jordan Petersens and your Ben Shapiros, the world would be in a much better place. Intelligence isn't everything. I know your type because I used to be your type... and then I grew up. :/
*Of course not. Who would become doctors? Engineers with hard hats and lab coats? Accountants? Lawyers? You know, actual useful people that can code in their spare time.*
That sponsor integration was incredible, it just flowed from what you were talking about straight on to the sponsor
do sponsors require to talk about them? Why they can't just give money and not require to mention them.
@@izvarzone lol, are you joking or serious?
I agree to a certain point with this video:
Not everyone should be a professional poet - but everyone should be able to speak the language.
Code doesn't roll off the tongue in the same way poetry does
HappyMan's 2nd Channel - Poetry does not „roll off the tongue”. You confuse the worthless school assignments with a lifework or a poet that is genuinely earning his bread with it.
Real poetry is not less hard than clean purpose programming. I would argue it is even way harder, because you need inspiration for it instead of just using it as a tool.
Yeah, because language is useful outside of poetry. CS, not so much.
There's a difference between being able to code and being able to use a computer, though.
ojkolsrud1 being able to code is also hardy ever useful.
Before you start your journey to learn programming, ask yourself, if the pay wasn't so high, would you still want to learn it? That's your answer.
Muhaimin Zulkarnain I tried to learn it, and before i watched this video, didn’t realize the pay was high for average employee. So yes or no?
@@alexwang982 Go find out how does it feel
@@alexwang982 A lot of people start to learn how to code, then give up halfway. There are also a bunch of people who learned how to code, finish it, but then has no idea what to do next. To answer your question, try making something. Create. Do a project. Build your own website or build an app or program a game. Learn it, then apply what you've learned. That's the only way to know if it's for you or not. I started learning how to code because I wanted to build an app. So my learning process was centered around that. It helped me understand the process better. Have a goal. Don't learn for the sake or learning. Apply what you learn.
If I wasn't paid, I wouldn't do any job.
@@skycloud4802 that's true but if the job paid less, say $60k average,.would you still do it? You're still getting paid, just not as much.
Very legit points. This needs to be said more often 🙌❤️
Many think: Computers are very important and a great tool; so everyone (or at least as many people as possible) should learn to use them properly. This is something I totally agree with. But then they think: well, the best way to achieve this is to teach everyone how to code. That's not only total overkill but also potentially discouraging for people that could benefit from computer skills but are scared by the math...
also it's completely ignoring different aspects of C.S like database and Sql, my mind is that of lists ever since I was a kid, the first time I touch excel it was like magickly easy for me too pick up, then counting things and thinking of running money was my second passion, well needles too say I'm going for a accounting m.is degree which is accounting with sql, and a little of coding( though I'm not a big fan of coding.)
People who program:
I am not that good.
Children who do BLOCK CODING:
pROfeSiOnAL
Soo true
Block coding fricked me up 10 to eat old me when I got C++ “This is tooo hard!!!!!”
are you disrespecting me and my Scratch game >:(
Especially scratch. You can find good projects that are good but everything is filled with trash platformers for views and likes that you don't even get money for
@@Tuberex I'd say scratch is good for beginners for training their logic
These transitions to ads are going to make me buy something
Right? I'm going to buy ads for my business.
Man I hate them so much. There's nothing wrong with them I guess but they feel somehow dishonest or like a breach of trust.
donov25 If it we’re any other CZcamsr, I’d have to agree with you. But these ads are at the end of a very informative, concise, and well crafted video. And on top of that, have excellent transitions and are relevant to the video... which is the key point that so many other content creators seem to forget. People put Dyson vacuum ads on car videos and I’m like what the heck?!?
As long as the ads remain relevant and with creative and/or funny transitions, it’s totally fine by me.
Lol true xD
the smoothest of all transition
I love having tricky bugs in my code - either I like computer science or I'm totally weird
Just programming alone never give you a value. You need to be good at engineering and problem solving in order to manipulate your programming skills towards the business success.
7:30 you've been struck by a smooth advertiser
Abdullah Seraj lmao
Michael jackson
czcams.com/video/LDiqNEtf5Ew/video.html
czcams.com/video/8D-WVlRohQk/video.html
Hee-hee
Annie isn't ok....
most of the time your just gonna be googling
why you errored on line 42
coding - 30%
googling - 70%
Reminds me of the joke that programming classes would be renamed to "googling stackoverflow".
stackoverflow is king
@@claudiatje85 I'm learning Python and stackflow so far is my best friend
In my experience it is more like 50% Google, 40% bug fixing and 10% Actual programming
WEBGL makes it 95% Google 5% programming
The collective knowledge of coding is important though. More programmers might results in a wider pool of knowledge. I saw a comment about Stackoverflow and how integral it has become and I couldn't agree more. I think everyone should learn the basics but not everyone should pursue it as a career.
It's a bit like learning to draw or playing an instrument.
Almost everyone can try it, some people who never would've expected it might bring some incredible works into this world, but in the end if you're not passionate about it and not willing to suffer because of it you probably shouldn't try to make it your profession.
Love this channel!
Not to mention that salaries won't stay high if there's a glut of programmers in the market
It was mention brah.
thats why you should get into machine learning, not everyone can code a learner
Jacques Francois Yep. Look at the AAA game development industry. Lots of people want to make games so that drove the salary of a game dev down to $40,000 on average despite the bad conditions and extra long hours.
You know that pressure you feel to work harder and longer right before a deadline? Now imagine doing that all the time instead of just during crunch time.
I believe salaries for truly talented people would remain the same, it would just be harder to find them.
Market allready flooded by coders.
I'm a software engineer and make more than my girlfriend who is an attorney. We're both fairly young though.
nice
She needs to do patent law
In my experience, programmers hit the cap much faster than other majors.
Attorneys have jobs only because thre law is intentionally confusing.
Cool story
You could really tell how much people know about programming just by reading the comments.
- Stack overflow
- Missing semicolon
- Indian savior
- Hello world
- Python, JS, HTML, CSS
- Opening an IDE and just staring at it
Great video. Also that sponsor was smooth
Everyone should code to me sounds like an attempt to flood the market n lower the pay for programmers n devs over time
Naͣfiͥsaͣhͪ Oury Bah true
Their wage should be lowered. They earn too much for not a lot of work.
Coding and programming are 2 different things of the same topic. Coding is translation, programming is the languages themselves.
mike b
Why should they be lowered “not working hard” isn’t an argument
@@mikeb4471 let me guess, you don't know anything about programming / software engineering and are just salty because you have to work 10 hours a day in a job that mostly is about physical work?
"Many can afford a big fancy house, or rent a closet in San Francisco"
*B O O M*
Yeah, but think of all those high-paying SF jobs you won't be able to get taxed at 80% for! (Fed+state) Like, seriously, what's the point of living if you can't be a tax slave that lives in a glorified toolshed that has a fuckhuge property tax and is surrounded by places that charge 15 bucks a lb. for basic ass vegetables?
@Rxbyg Dug
I would hope so. I filed a corporation with Nevada for the express purpose of write-offs and other benefits.
But FUCKKKKKK San Francisco. Those houses are glorified cabinets on over-priced landfill with stupidly expensive property tax. I repeat, FUCK San Fran. Okay to visit, NOT okay to live or work in.
Oh yeah and their gun laws are retarded. Another reason Nevada is better. The only places worth buying in California are ones where there aren't any people around for miles-- ones where there is no house on it and you have to build your own. At that point, all their insanely over-reaching shitty laws won't touch you, because you're simply just too far away and they have several dozen million junkie VD carrier libtards to deal with.
manictiger Let's gas SF with Novichok
purpleravenstar Don’t hate lol. I’ve lived in SF till I was 19, best experience of my life. SF is experience as fuck now, but Seattle is just as great and much more affordable so no big deal 👌
@Symon
Seattle literally has the worst property tax rate in the entire U.S.A. I think there's a lot of teens and early 20s that have their parents pay for things and don't notice this kind of stuff, or how these things make everything else more expensive, but once you get older, you'll probably notice. You'll notice how business that have to pay all this shit close more often, charge more, etc. You could call it 'trickle up theory', whereby, all the money goes to the state, Stalin-style. You'll notice how much of your money continually gets THROWN AWAY to a landlord just to keep you from living under a bridge, because life in these Democrat-run shit holes is so expensive that you will die 5 times over before you can afford a house!
If you become a businessman like me, then you'll avoid the traps, but still despise them. The libertarians are right. This government needs a major downsizing. I've been through those pretty little government zones. Bronze and marble statues, wooden art pieces hanging from the ceiling, fountains, expensive ass experimental architecture, buildings made entirely of window panes and high-grade steel alloy, buildings made entirely of reinforced concrete, etc. That's where your money goes. Monuments to government overtaxing and overspending. Meanwhile, so many people can barely even afford the rent on their glorified particle board WALK-IN CLOSETS! Why? Taxes. The expenditures get passed down onto you.
I started learning to code in c++ when I was 12; yet I didn’t enjoy the basics of the language because it’s just how it is! Boring basics comes first, Fun and power comes afterwards. Now, I can code a calculator with c++ after 2months of coding from no experience. Everyone makes mistakes because that’s what makes programmers improve and learn. It’s just a matter of patience, “If you don’t have patience, it’s not for you.” Memory isn’t everything, If you understand how the code works every time you learn, you’ll succeed even experts says this.
Keys:
- Interest in programming,
- Understanding (Having fun).
- Enjoying coding and not only for the money.
I also started learning c++ 2 days ago , i am 14 and i do have a bit of experience on majorly every other programming language like lua , html , css , js , i love programming and was able to make a calculator with first few hours cause ik how codes work a bit. And i agree with you patience and practice is what will get you get good in coding
@@vedantaggarwal6641 Lua is so good but only on roblox
@@808Efe thats where i learned it XD
@@808Efe Wrong
"A good teacher can simplify a topic"
An English teacher: *My goals are beyond your understanding.*
Me: ok let's learn Python and R
Also me: why is this recommended to me
so i ain't the only one
lmao
@@depression_isnt_real O.of
@@depression_isnt_real do you not realize the potential programming has? You could so many things , it's just amazing. I don't see why anyone could hate programming.
Don't waste your time with R
You've been skillshared!
Keyvan wkwkwk
ADee SHuPA ?
Make that the new rickroll
*G E T S K I L L S H A R E D L O L*
Alex!
My dad knows how to code/program things on computers, so naturally, it got my interested at a pretty early age (he never even went to school for it because they didn’t offer it as a class when he was in school.) I love music, wildlife conservation/science and I’m a bit interested in learning languages, but I’ve also tried coding. I enjoy math and the challenges that come along with it, so coding was enjoyable too, but I’m not sure if I could see it as a career. The interest in a career because of the salary is something I’ve considered before too, I would love to be a musician when I’m older but it doesn’t make nearly as much money as a job in animal conservation could, and I love both so much, so I’ve been torn my entire life.
I'm in a similar spot. I like science and math but don't really want to break it down as much. I want to understand it but not deal with memorization and such. I care more about abstract things, music, nature, ecology, design, etc but there's just not the same career options. It's so hard to choose :/
I love how you can tell when the video is done and the ad begins, but up to the point he says "skillshare" you could take it out of context and not realize it's an ad
Teachers get selected for love of the job? No. Not really. That's just simply not true.
No, they do not get selected because they love the job, they go into the field of teaching because they love their subject.
@@Actovania holy shit man I just realized that... makes so much sense
Teaching is the refugee of Theatre Arts majors .
@@kris030 That’s why most math teachers are crazy!
Yeah! And it's a respectable occupation and many people worship them.
The video was clear and on point.
My take:
The general consensus is Programming/Coding is just knowing and remembering the syntax.
The truth is it also involves own logic, creativity, genuine interest for problem solving and understanding the purpose of coding. It requires thinking about the smallest possible detail and converting it into a code of suitable programming language based on the available hardware and software resources.
Shanmuka Nalli but these are some things that I think the general public will need to have a basic understanding of in the future. At the same level that highschool algebra does not make you a mathematician but does give you pattern recognition skills that are advantageous in day to day activities.
Chigeh I agree with your point.
A general knowledge of programming/code is essential in current times.
My point is: Better awareness and understanding of the job profile of a programmer is required so that the right people take it up as a job.
Coding as a general subject is necessary but coding as a job is a different ball game.
For example:
Mathematics knowledge is essential for everyone but only few should take up Accounting job as it requires genuine interest and specialization.
In short: I meant there is lack of clarity regarding Coding as a essential Subject and specialized Job
Knowing how to code obviously means being able to write a Hello World routine.
Creativity is THE talent of all, making anything, art, music, models or programming, requires creativity.
What you refer to is known more as software engineering.
If you know how to code, you can hack together a program that does what you want, sure. But that sure as heck isn't what all those great technology companies do. What they do isn't coding, it's software engineering at its finest. The actual programming (in the sole activity being writing the code) is maybe like 10% of the work.
Thats why I don't agree when people say children should learn how to code (again, in the sense of hacking together bits of code that do the thing). Rather, they should learn the concepts of tackling a complicated problem, breaking them up in smaller ones and being creative about solving them that really make this job what it is. Because these are universal skills you can apply in much more situations in life rather than knowing how to type up a hello world function.
6:08 - that is the same thing that happened in india . The supply rise & the sallary fall. Now in every family there is at least 1 programmer. And the sallary is less than govt. Jobs
Hey guys! I'm intending to study computer programming/ computer science in my college. But I'm confused, is it bad for me that don't have any experience at coding but had that passion for computer stuff? How hard is it to learn all of that stuff exactly?
Disclaimer: I’m a current CS undergraduate who knew some programming prior to my first semester.
While I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “intending to study computer programming/ computer science in my college” (as in I’m not sure if you mean majoring in it, minoring in it, or just taking a class or two on it), I can say if you mean majoring in computer science then yes I would definitely learn some coding in advance (makes the material easier to digest if you have some idea of what you should be doing, plus it lets you know what to expect). If you mean majoring in something like software engineering (which is a separate program at my university), then I’m not sure but I would think it would still be helpful to know some coding in advance. As for just taking a class or two involving coding, you would probably be fine without prior experience in coding (I’ve had friends who never coded before do well in classes like this). Regardless of what your case is, you aren’t expected to know everything right at the start (as that is the point of the classes), but getting a head start on learning common syntax and practicing problem solving skills is always a good thing.
As for difficulty, it depends. As long as you try to learn and understand how the syntax of a programming language works (the parts you need anyways) and as long as you practice your problem solving skills you should be fine. Also you need to have patience, as you will get stumped and will need to continue through it.
Most importantly, coding is only fun if you enjoy problem solving and fixing your own (and sometimes other’s) mistakes. I’ve worked on programs where I’ve sat there for a couple hours thinking about some bug in the output just to figure out it was because I accidentally mistyped a number (and it wasn’t obvious that was the issue), but it felt great when the program finally worked as intended. As long as you enjoy (most of) the process, then you should have no problem learning (as long as you are coding along with whatever tutorial or guide you are following, not just watching/reading).
@@cameronmyron5776 hey! I am in the same shoes as op. I'm intending to major in CS because I feel i will enjoy it but I have very minimal experience with coding ( little bit python ) so how do I decided if this career path is right for me? I dont want to waste 1-2 years taking cs then dropping out because I couldnt do it. Im in the last yr of my highschool now so I have to choose now. Also alot of people are saying thst CS degree and CS jobs will be obsolete in the future due to such high supply right now. What do you think about that in your opinion? Is a CS degree still a good career path?. Also if i decided to procced with CS what all do i have to learn before starting my classes to at least get the basic foundation strong?
@@leytonval6346 Because I’m still in the middle of getting my bachelors in CS I don’t really have the experience of knowing how getting and maintaining a job after will be.
However from what I’ve read and heard, the problem isn’t that CS related jobs are declining, it is that the requirements are increasing. Most companies don’t want to hire a “software engineer” straight out of a 12 week coding boot camp because they will still need to hold their hand due to a lack of experience. At least someone from a 4-5 year BS program for CS or SE can somewhat know what they should be doing, but in all honesty these companies would rather hire those with prior work experience (the problem is there aren’t enough of these people). On this note, this is why it is important to do your own side projects to put on your resume if you don’t have prior work experience in the field, as this will show you are legitimately interested in the work and it shows that you can think of an idea, figure out how to do it, and then try to do it (in a lot of ways the process is more important than the end product).
As for if CS is is for you, it depends on what you enjoy doing. What I’ve found and learned is that in most cases, a BS in CS typically leads to a typical SE job (unless you go to a renowned school like Cornell or MIT), but it is possible to get into research. Also nowadays a lot of companies are looking for those with interest in AI/ML, which does fall under the typical curriculum for a CS major (I don’t know if SE majors typically get AI/ML classes, but I do know not every school has a SE program (my school has specific programs for CS, SE, CSEC, Game Design, etc., but this isn’t the case everywhere)). As far as the difficulty in getting a BS in CS, I would say it isn’t the easiest even at non-renowned schools. I’ve heard of and know a few people (even at my own school) who have changed majors from CS due to it not being for them (interestingly enough, most of them switched to a business major). Additionally I know some of the assignments in my classes can be a pain at times, but it doesn’t bother me too much because I enjoy writing programs and the feeling when I eventually get them to work as intended. Plus I really like the math and theory behind many areas of CS (like automata theory, computational complexity, data structures, AI/ML, programming languages/paradigms, and cryptography). Overall, I would just look at the required classes (or possible electives) for the CS program you are considering, see if any of them look interesting, and then do a little bit of research on the topic to see if you would actually enjoy doing it.
As far as prior experience before going into a BS for CS program, it shouldn’t be required as the point of going to college is to learn about your topic of study. However I would be lying if I said that my prior experience didn’t help me (not only did I have over a year worth of credits prior from various AP and college level classes in high school, one of which was AP CS, but I also knew how to approach the content faster than some of my other peers without prior experience). The fact you know some Python should help, especially given that is usually the first language you learn (that or Java, but you definitely will learn both) and is typically the language many students (including myself) choose when we have a choice on assignments (runs faster than Java and can be written faster than C (and Java in most cases)). As far as concepts you should learn to be ahead of the curve, I would suggest basic data types (know, at a high level, the difference between an int and a double/float, how char and string are related in Python/Java, what classes and objects are and how they are not the exactly the same thing, etc.), know how basic data structures work (arrays/lists, linked lists, hashtables/dictionaries (not exactly the same, but very similar), binary trees, etc.), and the basic syntax of Python/Java (this will let you spend less time debugging incorrect syntax and more time debugging your logical mistakes (these will occur no matter how many years of experience you have, it is part of programming. As Edsger Dijkstra said "Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence!", and therefore you want to do a good job testing as much as you can to catch any obvious bugs and hope nobody spends more time than you finding the rest)).
I’m probably not the best source of advice given the fact I’m still in my BS in CS program, but hopefully this helped somewhat. Wish you luck in whatever major you decide to go with next year.
I went into this already disagreeing with the videos thesis. By the end of it you'd countered every point I had, and had convinced me of your stance. Thank you for this, it was quite eye opening
god damn we need more people that are okay with changing their mind when they realize their wrong, thank you
Agreed!
coding is easy, programming is hard.
I still disagree to some extent. I always thought the idea that everyone should become a programmer was rather stupid, but I do think programming as a skill will still be essential. It’s inevitable that most positions will require some form of low level automation. That’s not to say everyone should have formal training in algorithms, but a basic understanding of scripting and such would be useful in almost any profession.
Dafuzz I'd say that we are far enough into the 21st century and the proliferation of smartphones that the average person should never need to write ANY code. In this day and age, if an app from the play store or apple store can't do it, then they would have already hired a programmer by then.
Thank you for this video, especially for differentiating between CS and Programming. As a CS PhD student and educator, I encounter hundreds of students misled by the "everybody can code" narrative pushed by universities, programs like Hour of Code, and so on. They're not the same thing, great video.
I have to agree, this also goes for every other subject. Governments and other institutions try to force more people into STEM or whatever is popular at the time. They show only the simple and exiting stuff. This mouth-breathing " I fucking love science" culture leads to many starting college but few finishing. I do electrical engineering and after my first semester almost half left or had to repeat courses. I am almost done now and it seems like 30% will finish in the standard time frame.
I self taught myself programming and computer science starting with JavaScript and QBASIC in 2nd grade Summer camp. After the lessons, still during camp, I tried to code more complex programs myself in QBASIC. I then started Visual Basic on my own and taught myself through videos and articles. I actually posted a program up at CodePlex back in the day when I was just 10. I actually programmed for fun. I actually taught myself C++ back then in order to hack COD4. I ended up writing my own hack and using it. I did basic reverse engineering back then (I started learning how to read x86 ASM back then), but mostly took offsets and addresses posted online. In middle school, I taught myself how to write whole programs in x86 using NASM.
When my parents used to send me to those stupid summer camps again, it was so boring because it was those "everyone can code" crap, but it did open my eyes to computer science. It was painful to go there. My parents couldn't understand why I program all the time, but hate these camps.
@The Eclectic Dyslexic Well exactly. Though it is worth noting that CS has a huge identity problem to the wider public, so for people to decide "they are not really suited for computer science" until they have played their chips by spending thousands of dollars usually doesn't go well. I've met numerous students that found "it was not really suited for them", but stay in the program as they've invested too long into it already. This kind of stuff places a strain on departments as for the larger proportion of people not there for CS, it displaces the needs of those genuinely there to learn CS as an academic subject. When there is a strain, it degrades the standards; something I've been observing more by the year. That's one of the oppositions I have with the narrative. Computer Science isn't about computers, it's fundamentally about computation and is a mathematical science. It's usually already too late by high school as many "CS" courses in high school do not refer to themselves as programming courses, just as "CS" courses (despite having next to no CS content in them).
I'm completely for giving people the OPTION to learn how to code in school. However the age and type of programming is something up for debate, as well as it depends on the aptitude of the teachers. Many schools barely can get Maths education right, and this stuff builds on Maths education. Heck if they made it mandatory in high school to have a computer class that mixes typing with some programming, sure, but don't call it CS. A tech literacy class could be helpful if it had these skills. The last thing we need are a bunch of people thinking they understand what they're doing when they're not and flooding employment markets claiming they know CS. CS has been pigeon-holed unfortunately in a lot of universities to be "that place the coders go", when there are equally many great vocational schools/colleges that offer programming lessons. If somebody wants to learn how to program for free (for the purposes you're describing), there are many many options; many great books (this has been the case since the late 90's) and online tutorials.
Sayed Asif Even mechanical engineering will require some coding at some point so doing a bit of coding will help you for sure.
@The Eclectic Dyslexic, what you've described is a similar experience to what I've had both as an instructor and a TA, especially in a growing fashion in the last few years especially. It is both concerning and something that hurts me a bunch as an educator and somebody that wants students to pick at my brain. There is an overall trend with grades over substance (this is generally the case with uni students), that is a part of it but also I have been noticing that the standards have been lowering; mostly due to strain and also to avoid conflict and having to deal with administrators. Many CS departments do not have as much gate-keeping of who passes and who fails as other science/math departments. For example, I was TAing a course for maybe 3-4 years at this point and have watched a course turn into one with full blown closed-book exams to one where they let students have double-sided 8.5x11 inch "cheat sheets" for their "closed-book" exams (these unfortunately are not decisions I'm allowed to make). Meaning they don't need to remember anything if they put all the notes in 8 point font. While I understand the "learning strategy" it really takes away the closed-book nature of these kinds of exams. This is an example among many. Little things like that really concern me as nobody seems to want to hold anybody else accountable and whenever you do, you're the "bad" person. I've been watching the standards of writing, reasoning, and comprehension with students slip worse by the year.
The students that make it worth it are those that ask questions, and obviously are attentive. However, I find the number of those smaller in number; it varies term to term, but I'm not optimistic about the future. I especially say this as a theory guy, the areas that tend to be the worst "victims" in this whole thing as they're both "not sexy" and "unpopular" among many students "that don't want to be there". It gives the departments little incentive to maintain them or even offer some that aren't mandatory (or even cut them or merge them). This should be obviously concerning as theoretical computer science is the foundation and bedrock of the field.
A random hacker: *rewrites the whole code to troll and harm others*
A programmer: *types aggressively*
I'm currently taking a bachelor's course for software engineering and honestly this video really explains it the way I will explain it from now on to people that look at me and tell me that "sitting behind a desk writing some code on a computer is just a lazy thing that anyone could do".
I mean, it definitely is, but look at all jobs altogether... You can do anything with the right training and you'll simply be really good at it quickly if you're talented. That's it!
I really enjoy figuring out systems, how things work and how to fit stuff together with a team of people. Even to me, sitting behind a computer all day thinking of code does sound extremely boring, but to me it's not about that but about the problem you're solving and most of the time together with a team of people that act like a big thinking tank. You keep learning from one another and you can have a lot of fun when you finally solve that mind-bugging issue, much like a puzzle!
And, seeing how the world mostly runs on systems like such, you can tell people about it and they would find it cool or even impressive, which is a fun little ego-boosting bonus if you ask me :p
As a CS major,,, I honestly wish I watched this video four years ago because I know so many people that needed to see it. This is awesome.
why you say so?
Bago Garde because I know a lot of people in my major that “know how to code” in the sense that they can watch a YT video on classes or functions and know what to type to not produce error but they don’t actually know how to evaluate and think about an advanced coding problem from the ground up and build a system to do it. They struggle with the assignments we are given now that we are juniors/seniors because they require a deeper level of understanding that you can’t just get from looking at YT videos.
MH Charles-Etuk Can you not get them by listening at the lectures and doing what you need to do?
(I have applied for CS so would be nice to know what to expect)
jojomen100 I mean idk how it is at your school but here the teachers don’t exactly spell it out for you. They tell you how to do it but if it doesn’t come naturally to you then it’ll be hard. Especially cause they don’t teach you HOW to do a project before they give it to you
MH Charles-Etuk Yeah but as i see it, it's pretty obligatory to put lots of your own work in it, so no matter if it comes naturally to you or not it's still not unreasonable as long as you put in work.
Not everyone should code because...
Who is gonna do the sound,music and graphics?
the AI that they are programming
They're gonna hire somebody with their salary idiot
Verlax you missed the joke
hi bonjru AI has playing music is nothing compared to an actual human. Ik it was a joke but robots can’t compete with humans
Ultimate G. Reatness robots can’t do emotion so their music will never be as good
It would be nice if more people understood how difficult software engineering is. One can spend hours pondering the implications of changing just one line of code in a large system.
When an interviewer rejects your resume in a computer science interview.
Not everyone should be making CZcams videos.
But he definitely should. We need more people with content this high-quality and with arguments this well thought-out. (I might not have agreed with the arguments, but his other videos especially are REALLY good.)
@@tokqgfx3360 Yeah, we really need more people trying to masquerade ads as genuine discussions. How can you not notice that?
@@tokqgfx3360 More like sleazy ads for shitty services...
@@wm1069 he said he's among the ones who get 6 figures salary.
@@wm1069 lol he knows it's a trap but still he delivers the advertisement like he is suggesting you
only people who truly want to code should do it, obviously. i thought i would do it in college and quickly realized i don't give a single shit about it
CometCourse So what is your job now?
So what do you do now?
Programmer: forgets a "}"
Computer: *spontaneously combusts*
It had been a while since I watched a video this sincere
I'm not sure how you pull off those ads, my thoughts drift into the video when suddenly wild ad appears. by the time I realize it's there its over. Kudos!
Ashok Madridista they're so good I'm pretty sure they would be illegal in the UK 😂
Squaretable22 lol :D
Teachers are actually underpaid. Don't give that 'Passion' bullshit. Money isn't the driving force behind a job, but the pay has to justify staying there. Most people hear about a Teacher's salary, and walks away. The price of school makes it not worth it. You can have the feeling of being a teacher by getting any other job that can require you train others for. Doesn't have to be students, in which half of them have no interest in paying attention to you.
gredangeo Come to India... Some teachers in Kota (an Indian city) are paid close to $100,000. (p.a.)
Note:- They teach only high school students
Here's the problem, technology provides far more information than teachers do, hence why teachers them self copy and paste from it.
gredangeo Yeah America is fucked. My dad is a maths teacher in high school here in Australia, he earns 90k AUD or 70k USD, which is average for a teacher here.
Not to mention what teachers are paid isn't worth the B.S. you get because a parent doesn't like you failing their kid or calling them out on bullying
Thank you so much for this video.