Cyanotype and Ultraviolet Light (problem solved!)
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2020
- I have not as yet reached success with in-camera Cyanotypes but I have come to learn something else that I think can be helpful to some.
Having only resorted to the rays of the sun for Cyanotype printing, I only recently made the decision to invest in an artificial UV light unit. This decision came about due to the many failed attempts I have had with in-camera Cyanotypes which made me start to think that perhaps I would need to create a new box camera design.
Many ideas flowed which included the thought of adding the element of a UV light source within the new box camera design. This opened my mind to the different characters of UV light which in turn brought me to an understanding that not just any UV light source will work for the Cyanotype process.
The mention of wavelength number 365 nm is so you can use it as a guide, (this number being within a UV light units wavelength range), as I believe that there is room to be slightly below and/or above this number.
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It's so cool to see someone troubleshoot a problem like this and walk through it. We all run into these obstacles if we try new things and processes, so this sort of step-by-step analysis is great.
Thank you Dylanger!
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne Thank you! Finally tried cyanotypes today and your video was very helpful
@@dylangergutierrez That's fantastic!
Great job. I will remember the wavelength as the same number of days in a year so I won't forget it now.
This is VERY helpful and I would have been lost and frustrated as I'm looking at doing cyanotypes. Thank you so much for doing the work on this.
HI Aviva. Thank you! I am glad this was able to help you out.
Slightly late to the party here but I use UV lamps to expose my prints as I live in the UK and the sun has a tendency to disappear for weeks at a time.
I have never had an issue with the WL. It's all about the Wattage. I use a 50w lamp that looks very similar to the one you had.
It is worth noting that it takes ALOT longer to expose under a lamp compared to the sun. A print that normally takes 5-10mins in the sun can take 30-40mins under my lamp.
Hi. Yes a little late, this video was made almost 2 years ago so between then and now knowledge has grown. As I had replied to someone else, which maybe I should make an announcement of it. Some may not pertain to your reply exactly but I think it fits the subject matter.
"My experience was with the specific light that I had tested which clearly did not work is not to take away from other people's knowledge or choice that has worked for them. I found a way that works for me throughout my own personal journey of trying to find a way to work with the Cyanotype at anytime of the day and I chose to share my full experience. There is more than one way to have something work and I have yet to find anyone who has used the EXACT light that I had used which did not work with the Cyanotype say that it had worked.
A narrow spectrum is correct which is why from my experience and research I found a light that works like a charm with 365nm, bought from Amazon.
My goal was to find a UV light unit and not have to make one"
I am aware that the sun will give much shorter exposure times. I have made several videos and I am not sure which ones, but I did state that the usual time for me in the sun is about 3- 3 minutes and a half whereas many of my indoor Cyanotype videos have shown my exposure times closer to the 10 minute mark.
I have admitted in several replies that the wattage of light I was using was perhaps not enough. I realised this after I had gone through a series of ups and downs through the learning curve of switching over from the sun to a UV light source.
Thanks for taking the time to explain how you got around this problem, very helpful for me as I start to work with cyanotype on a low budget.
Great to hear!
Merci Nicole!!! You just save me so many hours of trial and error. Tellement content de te voir!!!
I am glad this has helped you Esery, one of the main reasons why I started this channel. Great to meet you here too!
OMG, thank you so much for the tip! I was shopping for a UV projector. Now I know what to buy :D
You are so welcome Sonia!
Thank you for sharing your experiments and investigations, successful and otherwise - you've already saved me $50+ in chemistry and equipment purchases (I've watched several cyanotype and collodion videos from other creators, yours are bite-sized and detailed, just what I need)
Hi.Thank you very much Joe, I really appreciate it.
Hi Nicole, thanks for the info about the lamp. I’ve been looking at tham and wondering about them. I look forward to seeing the results from your box camera experiments.
You are welcome you Peter! I would hate to know of this and not share with others.
Thanks for the tip I am thinking about trying out the process and this will certain help.
Your Welcome Ugo.
thank you for information that could be easily overlooked
Your are welcome Bill!
Just checked the wavelength of a light I got and this is my problem thank you!!!
Hi Sheanen. Just curious, how many watts is the light? Is it more than 20watts?
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne it is 60 Watts and like yours 395-400nm
@@sheaneenhealybyrne2687 did your Cyanotypes wash out in the water too?
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne i haven't actually tried it with a cyanotype only anthotype which take a long time to expose anyway. I have cyanotype chemistry that comes in solution A and solution B which takes twice as long to expose as the single solution version so I'm currently waiting on that in the post I'm going to try the light with the that and if it doesn't work I'm going to be returning it
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne my cyanotypes that I exposed with thr sun before I got the light washed out in water a load of times except for a 2 day exposure I did. The sun here in Ireland in February is nowhere strong enough and its currently not viable for me to be using such ling exposures as these prints are for my college assignment
This is exactly my issue. Thank you!
HI Peter. No problem!
Hi Nicole! First of all, your channel is gold! I love your content!
I was exploring what UV light to get because it is very challenging doing cyanotypes in the UK even in summer. I couldn't find UV light with 365nm anywhere, so I ordered 395 nm from Amazon. One of the reviews said it worked for their cyanotypes. It works for mine as well. I think it is very tricky finding the right one, if you didn't pay attention at school much (like me).
Oh Thank you so much Milicia! Oh great! I am glad that it worked. I think in my situation the wattage of light, which was only 20W, was not strong enough for the Cyanotype which is mainly why the light did not work. I am glad though, that it didn't because I found something that works in the end with a pretty good warranty and is much easier on the eyes. Which light did you buy?
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077HS47VT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Mine is actually 20 W but it works. I am still testing what is correct time exposure. I think your light is better but unfortunately, I can't find one like that here.
@@TigaBg hiya. I'm in UK as well. Have a look on Ebay, there are some options 30/50W with 365nm. They're shipped from China, so it might take few weeks to get delivered though:(
Hi Nicole, I'm so glad to have discovered you channel today 😁👍 As Milica said, it's pure gold ✌
Greets from Manchester
@@mirkolazzarin5648 Thank you Mirko! Did you manage to get the light?
@@TigaBg what kind of cyanotype chemistry are you using?
Very helpful - thank you!
Your welcome!
youre such a blessing omg this just saved me so much $ and time!
Fantastic!
Glad I found your video- --I experienced the roughly same situation using daylight was ok but then tried uv light
( was given a real uv light the type that is used to erase computor's Eprom print washed out completely )
Using , for the moment a 3watts plant growth bulb ( 3.00$ bulb ) and no problem at all
Thought it is only usefull for prints of 4 inches square
will have to arrange an array in a reflective box
Thanks for sharing
Best season wishes and keepsafe
Thank you Jacques for that tip, I added it in the title. Would aluminum foil help with the spread of that light? I am glad this was helpful to you and I wish you Happy Holidays!
Thanks very much, it was very helpful !!
Hi Enzo. I am glad this had helped you!
Thanks for sharing your experience.
No problem. Thank you for watching!
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne One question :) Where did you buy the UV lamp 365 nm? I tried to find the same on the video on the net but didn't find any.. Thanks!
@@Rolleicord23 HI Luca, here is the link to the light:
UV Light Source
- THE NEW 2020 MODEL - Everbeam 365nm 50W UV LED Black Light - High Performance LED Bulbs, IP66 Waterproof:
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08635F9CX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Hi Guys, for small prints I am using an old uv lamp for gel or hybrid nails (older models with bulbs). Bulbs are usually 365nm (I have four 9W bulbs ) and exposure time takes about 3 -6 minutes for cyanotype or vandyke.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Nicole. According to the NASA and Canada national sites, UV wavelengths that reach the earth (i.e. getting through all the atmosphere) range from 290-400 nm. They don't show a full frequency spectrum curve as to how much light at each wavelength reaches us, however UVB is the light that we need to make vitamin D, and UVB is considered to be between 280-320 nm, so at least some light at those short wavelengths reaches the earth's surface. I'm not sure where your number of 365 nm being required for cyanotypes comes from, but certainly your light was not giving short enough wavelengths, 395-400 nm is barely UV at all, just a teeny bit shorter than visible. Along the same lines, it's important to use a glass or plastic plate that doesn't absorb UV to flatten the negative over the paper for printing from digital negs - it'll be obvious if someone uses the wrong type as there will be no exposure of the paper, but might be worth mentioning in one of your troubleshooting videos. For your in-camera project, obviously need to make sure the lens itself doesn't absorb UV, I'm not sure how to find that out, or whether all lens glass allows UV through - some must or we wouldn't bother to use UV filters on our regular film cameras to protect our analogue film from overexposure to UV wavelengths. I have a sense that UV lights adequate for cyanotypes are expensive, at least the ones I've seen used in other videos. Good luck!
Hi Mark. I realized all of what you just explained when I was not getting results. After exposing with this UV light , the image Cyanotype print appeared on paper just as it would when using the sun but as soon as it was placed i water it completely disappeared. This is why I was confused from the very beginning. About the glass, this is an importance that i also know and must not be a blocker of UV light. It is very hard to say by looking at the magnifying glass that I am using as a lens if it is blocking UV light but I would imagine that it must not block that much or nothing at all as I payed very little for it. Thanks for the luck and detailed info! :)
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne That is odd, that you would see an image on the paper at all. Maybe visible light does something, but it's not stable so water washes it out. Anyway, you definitely need shorter wavelengths than that bulb. As for lens/magnifiers, it's unclear which ones pass shorter wavelength UV, probably most do. Automobile window glass blocks it at least partially I think, based on us not getting tanned after driving long distance in the sunlight (or getting tanned on one arm if the window on that side is down!) Good luck!
@@oudviola Yes odd which is why I started to educate myself on UV wavelengths. There is enough light to see an image but not enough of the right UV for the image to stabilize onto the paper. The testing that I did was not in camera it was done the traditional way...glass and negative exposed to the light. The same I use and have been Working with for the last 4 years. I have tested in camera with the bought Cyanotype formula and it worked fine but it being done this way, the print has to be scanned as you would for a Lumen print before even thinking of rinsing it water.
I'm having the same problem and was scratching my head. thanks
You are welcome!
interesting to know the wavelength best suited for Cyanotype! I was about to buy a UV lamp but I was looking for 420nm for UV resin curing that was also going to double for some Cyanotype and Kallitype! Looks like I'll need to stick to the sun for the Cyanotype for now.
Hello! There might be some flexibility with a UV light source that peaks at 395-400nm for Cyanotype but the wattage would need to be at a minimum of 50w , I have learned this further down road, yet it still remains; the shorter the wavelength the better for Cyanotype.
The 420nm light will for perfectly for Kallitype:
"sources that peak at 420 nm (approaching the visible blue end of the spectrum) may be better for Palladium/ Platinum, Van Dyke or kallitypes".
I had used this same light for salt printing and it had worked very well.
There are black lights coded as IP66,:
www.amazon.ca/UV-150W-Floodlight-Waterproof-Fluorescent/dp/B07VH3CVSF/ref=asc_df_B07VH3CVSF/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=335562249786&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7589369270753193486&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000429&hvtargid=pla-813274314161&psc=1, which I think would be a UV light source that can work well with the Cyanotype but I cannot guarantee this yet.
I have been looking into options as some countries do not have UV lights that contain the wavelength of 365NM , I have been trying to source out other options for my friends and supporters!
Hi and thanks for the video. just my two cents : I'm doing cyanotype with an enlarger (with a 50W 395-400 square led inside which measures about an inch). It takes long (1h to 3h for a 20x20cm print) but it works. I also have a 365nm led but a 100W one. even though it consumes double the power it is only marginally faster than the 395nm one. I have come to think that it's because my enlarger's lenses absorb most of the UVB and the only light that comes trough is longer wavelength. I think it depends on your chemistry as well. Classic Cyanotype accepts longer wavelenght in my experience than simple cyanotype, and even different kinds of classic cyanotype (different brands ? I'm using Jacquard's) might be sensitive to different wavelentgh( to be tested though). But that would explay why it works for me with 395nm and it doesn't for you.
Hi Ilan. I use Photographers Formulary brand and although it is a great thought along with other points you have made, I do not think that is what mostly matters because you can have a perfect formula and/or use a well known and reputable brand of formula ...If that light ain't just right, it ain't gonna work to well.
I have been questioned on this so many times with a mention on how a 395nm light has in fact worked and does work. Now just be clear on the side;
My question at the end was asking if anyone has used the exact light that I had displayed and used, the EXACT LIGHT, and if so has worked for them. I have yet to find this out but it is no longer relevant anymore because I found a way, a way which I have shared with everyone and would think it would take this over and to be clear once again, I spoke about the light in particular that I was using and never in a general sense against the use of 395nm UV, as I mentioned;
not just any UV light may work.
Now to be openly honest about the whole thing, at the time I made this video I had absolutely no experience and knowledge on UV sources and light banks because I only liked to use the sun, but now this has changed....the issue here was the value of light itself. The light I used was 20w, which is not sufficient even at the OPTIMAL wavelength. The minimum for Cyanotype is 50W, for whatever wavelength one plans to use and within that workable wavelength. Even still, the shorter the wavelength the better.
Hello Nicole, thanks for the video, it saves me trying that UV led. I've been using a UV face-tanner which does work. It has 4 tubes and I place it about 10cm over the subject to be exposed. It then takes some 10-30 minutes but does not wash off. Hope you keep making videos and let me know if you find a way for the Camera negatives with cyanotype.
Hi Jan, I am happy to hear this has been helpful to you! I will definately keep on and share my progress as I go.
Very useful video, many thanks. I have very similar problems. Unfortunately I cannot check the wavelengh of my UV light now, because I have not it with me today. But I can asure you than no cyanotype has properly exposed with it, even for 20 minutes, yet it gives me perfectly nice kallitypes just with 6-7 minutes of exposition.
Oh, and works with salt prints, althoug they are quite dull, just having an yellow-orange like color in what should bee deep blacks.
Aha, I've checked the details of my UV lamp from the day I purchased it in 2019.It says 395-400 nm!!! So I must go for one which has 365 nm in wavelengh, right?
Many thanks for the information.
Hi! The light used is good for Palladium/ Platinum, Van Dyke and Kallitypes, sources that peak at 420 nm (approaching the visible blue end of the spectrum). 👍
@@carbo73 I did try a few salt prints and unless the light is extremely close, and I mean extremely, with an exposure of at least 30 min plus, the tones come out more dense but not very desirable.
@@carbo73 If you are buying a lamp, yes, 365nm would be your best bet. In the case that you want to build one, it seems that there is a little more leeway to that of 365nm as I have been told by many who have built there own using led light strips that come in varying wavelengths other than 365nm.
Have fun!
Ive exposed cyanotypes even with blue LEDs (450nm) no issue, it only takes longer compared to light sources of the same power but shorter wavelengths.
That is great that you have success, with this light I did not, even with exposures of over an hour and a half! They are many who have come to me with a similar reply.
"My experience was with the specific light that I had tested which clearly did not work is not to take away from other people's knowledge or choice that has worked for them. I found a way that works for me throughout my own personal journey in trying to find a way to work with the Cyanotype at anytime of the day and I chose to share my full experience. There is more than one way to have something work and I have yet to find anyone who has used the EXACT light that I had used which did not work with the Cyanotype say that it had worked.
Everyone finds there own way and if it was not for me not having success with my first purchase of a UV light unit, I would not have gained a lot of knowledge and have found a UV light unit that works perfectly for me now.
Hi Nicole, I’ve been trying cyanotype photograms with 3D objects, and recently purchased a 365nm UV light. However I found out that the UV light doesn’t really work with objects, since it doesn’t cast any shadows like the sun does, but it does work on places where the object has direct contact with the paper. So the UV light doesn’t work for my purpose. Perhaps a sunlight simulation bulb would work. I’m wondering if anyone know more about this.
Hi Ziqi. I am sorry to hear that. I am not sure what to say as I have never worked with the Cyanotpye for photograms or for 3D objects, it has never been my interest.
The sun is the best for everything :)
How are you positioning the light, straight on or with an angle?This might be something to try?
Maybe having an additional light in the scene, any light, that would be the one to help cast the shadow of the objects and perhaps help record that 3D looking feel? Just a thought.
Thank you so much for sharing your trouble shooting experience, my question is what type of light do you use now ?
Hi! The light that I use now can be purchased from Amazon:
UV Light Source
- THE NEW 2020 MODEL - Everbeam 365nm 50W UV LED Black Light - High Performance LED Bulbs, IP66 Waterproof:
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08635F9CX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
If you plan to make larger prints, say larger than 8x10, I would suggest the 100watt light over the 50 watt.
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne Thank you so much for answering, it's very helpful.
@@xdaiart You are So welcome!
Hi Nicole, do you have any thoughts as to why this light worked for other people? All the videos I've found of people making their own UV light boxes etc. have used UV sources with a 395-405nm wavelength as that's what's commonly available (I can't find any 365nm lights on offer here in Europe).
Hi Max. I do not think that the commercial bought light and a DIY lightbox build to be the same as with a DIY lightbox build it is going to be built to work for one's needs. The commercial light has it's own defined standard of use and can only go so far within it's reach. This perhaps might just say something about that light.
I will add though, perhaps the 20w of that light bank was just not enough and could be one of the a main reasons why it did not work with the Cyanotype, ( it could also mean that it could possibly work at a higher wattage).....but I did mention at the end that if anyone had success with the EXACT light bank that I bought with Cyanotype, not a DIY build, to let me know. I still have not gotten any replies as yet.
I have never mentioned it in any of the videos but in the beginning I did want to build my own lightbox but after reviewing many videos on CZcams on that subject , I decided that I
no longer wanted to go that route which led me to buy the light bank that I was unsuccessful with.
Someone else not too long ago also asked me the same questions and they also mentioned how they have seen the light work for others from videos they have seen on CZcams...(videos of DIY builds, not the use of the exact light).I guess there is the option of building a light bank and or even buying the 395-400nm light bank at a higher wattage than what I used if there is at all any doubt.
In all, I am glad that I did end up with a light bank that did not work, (mind you it does work for salt prints, I tried it), otherwise I would never have kept searching and end up finding the light bank that I now can use for Cyanotype all year round.
*about a few months ago someone from Italy told me that the company does not ship to them. I had contacted the company and mentioned this to them and they said that they would be opening up their market to Europe at the beginning of this year, 2021. I am assuming though because of Covid, there might be a delay as to when this will become available in Europe.
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne Hi Nicole and Max- from what I've found out it seems the 395 - 405 is being used for printing film for T shirts.
@@_H_2023 @J H Thank you JH for the information. I also have come to an understand that there are certain U.V lights that are in the 395-405 range that can work for the Cyanotype. There is a mark or number indicated on the light: IP66, not sure what that number represents exactly to have it work differently from other UV units with the same wavelength numbers.
I thought I would add in and just put it out there as many seem to be asking questions about the light that Did Not work.
Mind you JH, I still see a better deal with the UV unit that I demonstrated with, having a 2 year warranty and being safer to the eyes.
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne IP66 just means this Lamp can be put in the rain and small dirt without damage. IP20 is much less secure. You have to use it always inside a room not outside.
@@suki4410 HI Stephan! Thank you for the clarification, I had no idea.
Except I use 2 50 watt uv lights with 385-400 wavelength, and they work perfectly for me.
Hi! That is great and good to know. Thank you for sharing!
Hi Nicole, I bought a 50W 365nm at Amazon in the Netherlands but a different brand. It works very well. I use it mainly for Cyanotype prints of antique glass plate negatives. Which is a challenge because some need 10 minutes, others 30 minutes.
You mentioned in a reply that you used a lamp for Salt prints. Was this the 365nm or 395? I am about to make my first Salt this week 😊
Hi Ike. The salt print worked with the 395nm light. Here is something that I have read along the way:
"salt print maximises in the region of 380nm, visible light up to approximately 650nm,
so there is flexibility there but I am not sure how 365nm would render overall for salt prints. I am sorry,I cannot say for sure.
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne Thank you so much, Nicole. This is of great help!
@@paraveterinary You are welcome!
Love your channel! I just ordered a light that at the lowest setting goes to 380nm. Do you think I’d have any luck? I couldn’t find any 365nm lamps available near me. Thanks!
Hi Amanda, thank you very much! I do not know for sure if it will work. What is the wattage of the light?
@@NicoleSmallOneonOne 1000w
@@nope9665 It just might at that wattage, but I can't say for sure.
Hi there, thanks for the video!
what would you recommend: a UV light with WL 395 and 100 W or a UV lamp with WL 365? I cant fine any on the internet with 365WL, maybe you can recommend me?
HI Shir. I personally would get a UV unit at what is considered to be ideal which is 365nm if at all possible but if this is not possible, I think that they are plug-in UV units that may work at the wavelength of 395 but I am not sure of which as I have no longer needed to test out any other UV light units once I found the one that works for me now. I am sorry, I cannot really direct you of where you should go. Where do you live?
Hello sister, sorry that didn't work for you. I good idea is to ask on cyanotype or alternative process fb groups. The sun produces a heat radiation that I imagine is hard to duplicate with bulbs.
Hi! Yes it is, but it can work. I just did not buy the right tool for the job :)
Hello, i have a 365 nm but after 1 or also 2 hour exposing the picture doesn’t show. And the colour too. Never had problems with the sun but with artificial light it seems impossible. Any advice?
HI! Some questions for ya!
1.Is your light new or old ?
2. How far do you have your light for your print?
3. What is the power of the light, it must be at least 50watts to work on the Cyanotype.
Let me know if this helps you in any way.
A bunch of assumption. Most UV LEDs used by others for the Cyanotype process operate with around or slightly under 400 Nm wavelength. The reason could be of any other kind as well. Beginning with the glas infront of the LEDs, which sucks quite a bunch of UV light up to the used travelling distance of the light in context with the extremely low power of 20 W and the required timing being considerably too short.
Thank you for your input.
This video dates back to 3 years ago, a time where I only depended on the sun to create Cyanotypes.
This is where I started when deciding to use an artificial light source, having no real knowledge about them. Everyone starts somewhere with something new and this so happens to be my start/beginning. Without any of my assumptions, curiosities and determination made at the start, I don't think I would have found a perfect solution, which I have been open to share with everyone, a light source that does the job each and every time.
thank you for sharing your efforts and findings! I'll make a mental note about 365nm. I have tried doing cyanotypes with a UV light in a workshop. it is handy but the one we had didn't quite produce as rich blues as going with the sun.
on another note... just a thought here. glass tends to stop UV light, right? more or less. I wonder if the guys building that lamp just used one kind of lamp and uses the glass in front of it as a kind of filter to get it to the nm range they want to sell it at. I noticed the screws so it seems it can be detachable? anyway, just thinking aloud here :) I'll follow you on your adventures in analog photography. Cyanotype Rex has me stoked! hehe
I'm glad you went on the homemade camera podcast so I could find out about you! :)
You are welcome, I am glad you found this to be useful. That is a great thought about the glass, hmmmm. Maybe I might try that to see what will happen. I really had a great time on the Homemadecamera podcast, such a great group of guys. Thanks for listening in and for reaching out!
Yes, normal glass filters out UV light. You cant get a tan in the car. Plastic and quartz glass is okay for UV light.
that UV light should be working
yet, u should only do much longer exposures
try it
Hi. I went as long as 2 hours with that light at a very close distance and still it rinsed off in the water. Looking back at it now it might have been the power of the light itself which was only 20watts.
Cool content! I hope You make It big one day! also, I really want to be youtube friends xD
I hope so too!
Just asugestion add in parenthesis : ( problem solved ) or some more catchy word or sentence to get more views 'helping more people
Thank you Jacques, I will add that correction!