BACK TO BASICS Part 1: Music streaming
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 05. 2020
- This video is sponsored by high-quality streaming service Qobuz. Sign up for a free trial before May 15th and your first paid month of commissions will be donated to rights holders for redistribution (or charitably gifted) to artists and writers: qob.uz/darko-qobuz-gimme-shelter
__________________________________________________________________
Let’s look quickly again at how the most common methods of music streaming function in a home hi-fi scenario: Bluetooth, Apple AirPlay, Spotify Connect, Google Chromecast, UPnP and Roon.
*This video is not about sound quality*
Seen in this video:
AURALiC Aries Mini (discontinued):
darko.audio/2016/02/audiophil...
Amazon doorstop:
darko.audio/2018/12/doorstop-...
INTEL NUC:
www.intel.com/content/www/us/...
Google Chromecast Audio (discontinued):
darko.audio/2018/07/letters-t...
darko.audio/2019/01/google-pu...
Bubble UPnP:
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
Chord 2go/Hugo2:
darko.audio/2020/04/a-short-f...
darko.audio/2020/04/10-more-t...
mConnect Lite:
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
Roon:
darko.audio/2018/07/a-short-f...
Roon Nucleus:
• Roon Nucleus @ Munich ...
#backtobasics #streaming #audiophile
__________________________________________________________________
Darko.Audio FAQ:
darko.audio/faq/
What the bloody hell am I talking about?
• What the bloody hell a...
__________________________________________________________________
DID YOU KNOW WE HAVE A PODCAST?
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
open.spotify.com/show/1mnKixp...
/ johnhdarko
__________________________________________________________________
Darko.Audio is a web magazine covering new and exciting developments in the audio world and we aren’t afraid of indie rock or techno.
Web: Darko.Audio
Instagram: / darkoaudio
Twitter: / darkoaudio
Facebook: / darkodotaudio - Zábava
Got a question? Please ask it in a way such that anyone might answer.
I think everybody is about to ask the same and you are the only one answering. What's the deal with that cap? heheheheheh just joking. Great video, looking forward for the next chapter. Really interesting as always.
Great info. An iso project is to rip all cds to roon server using a Mac Mini. Any tips on software, format and size. Am thinking non compressed
John Darko could you explain “gapless” and why you dislike “gapped” aren’t there gaps between songs there was on records I used to play. Pleas explain. Thank you.
John Darko if I’m streaming Tidal to my Sonos Port what gives the best quality; directly use Tidal from the Sonos app? Airplay?
Hi Darko, do you get Roon license if you buy Roon Nucleus?
Just a small point, streams are never “pushed” by servers, they are always “pulled” by clients such as phones or Spotify connect enabled devices. This is necessary for all sorts of network and security reasons. For Spotify connect, your phone talks to the local device which then makes the request directly to the server. UPnP works similarly... players request streams from servers.
I always watch your videos as soon as I see them posted, I enjoy them, and I always come away with something.
Thanks.
I really appreciate how thorough your videos are. Your videos are very transparent and musical....
This is a great overview of streaming. Perfect for someone, like me, who is an old audiophile somewhat mystified by all of this new digital stuff. I think I (mostly) understand now. Thanks
Thabks John I'm liking the direction this is moving in. I'm very much at the beginning of getting into audio and I like a lot of your videos but still have gaps in my understanding. Keep it up, I'll be here for what comes next.
Thanks John for this video.I am slowly beginning to see the light at the end of the wormhole
Great start, I'd like to see an explanation of the quality of all these streaming options.
Loved seeing the Huckaby track at the beginning! RIP. Love from Detroit.
That was very helpful introducing each slightly different streaming systems. Thanks!
Excellent summary John. As a newbie to streaming, the issues of 'yeah but where is the music'? and 'how can I control it'? are the two key questions. The interface between the listener and the source of the stream/stored music is at the heart of this, and is central to online sales/streaming, music listening and hifi hardware purchasing for the foreseeable future.
Just what I wanted, about to dip my toes into streaming. Happy to hear your going to make more vids for the uninitiated, thanks for the advice.
Stay safe and keep up the good work John
John, no problem understanding your explanation. Good idea laying it out. Not everyone is a streamer, but you make it clearer than others who aren’t as well spoken. Good job John! Stay safe to you and your crew!
Streaming has changed a lot since this video. I’d appreciate part 3 on changes to streaming in 2022.
Has it? In what ways?
What do you mean changed a lot ? basically you have wifi and bluetooth aptX HD. It is all based on these. lol
Great video. There are so many ways and means of streaming depending on your setup and preference, and a lot of minor annoyances (like gaps between songs!) that folks wouldn’t even consider before spending $$$. Looking forward to the more of these sorts of videos :)
Just wanted someone to explain that to me. You just do that so well. Same with the video about DAC's. Just what was required. Thankyou. I await the following videos.. 👍
Awesome video as always, one thing I got to say is I love that little puk.
Good video, at the very least for reminding me that I’ve got to look for my caps as well.
Streaming that Sakamoto. Nice! Great video. Informative and entertaining all at once. Cheers!
Cap to basics! Looking forward for the next ones
Slightly different representation would be more accurate: All casting protocols tell the streamer to “fetch” from the cloud by passing the “stream location” (usually a URL) from phone to the streamer. It is not the phone telling cloud server to “send” to the streamer.
Great video. Im still a bit confused what roon exacly is so i need to get back to you roon video. But im reallly grateful for basic videos as a person that is getting in to hi-fi game.
Keep this stuff coming for sure. Very informative
Just love watching You, thanks for Your work!
Wow a good change . Theory time 😲. Will want to see more for sure.
Hi again, I have just watched your 3 basic videos backwards 2,3,1.and found them all very interesting. I now understand streaming a lot more.
Thanks very much
Regards
Richard Herbert
Thank you, learn something new everyday. My goal is to build a home music system.
Nice explanation of Airplay/Chromecast/Spotify connect. Not sure why Google have decommissioned the Chromecast audio - if you have already invested in quality speakers it is a good companion for getting your streams played easily.
Once again a great one, thanks John. There’s so much given for granted in all CZcams videos dealing with liquid music, while in reality there are so many people approaching it for the very first time and they need a common vocabulary (at least I do!). Looking forward for the next ones, I hope you will also address the Sound Quality aspect of it and not only the features (e.g. why should anyone chose Roon over UPnP or the other way around?)
Being poor: I found it is pretty easy to just plug my old (not so old) iPad with Lightning to Micro USB adaptor into a Schiit Modi 3 DAC and there into my system. Control the whole thing with Spotify Connect and amp remote app or remote. But, I also like to stream FLAC from a particular Jazz station that, only streams FLAC from its web page. To do this, I set up the iPad so I could “remote control” it via an Apple BT Touchpad. It mostly works but, is no joy to use. I only need to do this at all because my set up does not allow the iPad on a coffee table in front of me. It has to sit on the console near the DAC. Oh well. Sounds great!
If Amazon Music HD or even Tidal would do a “connect”, I would probably leave Spotify. But I suspect Spotify will start doing HD before that happens and then, the Nordic streaming invasion will be complete.
Denon Heos Link HS2 does "connect" with Amazon Music HD and in 24/96 so Ultra HD is supported via Alexa Cast option. It also supports Spotify connect. And did I mention it works with both Alexa and Google Home? It does all that for 299 or less than 200 used on eBay. Best bang for the buck by far...
Have you looked at Raspberry Pi as streamer? Multiple software available and cheap to start, later extensible (better case, power supply, etc). Most important, fun to tinker with while stable enough.
Joseph Coates Please can you share which jazz station you listen to please?
Does the Chrome cast audio do what you want for $30 ??
@@LeeTanczos Amazon Music does not support HD over Chromecast, only SD. Spotify only offers SD. I don't know about Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer HiFi...
Hey John Darko! the CCA does gapless by roon and is amazing. I have a kind of expensive system, and meanwhile my analog chain is in the thousands order of cost, the CCA compares quite well using roon to it. Such a bummer that it went discontinued. BTW, lovely video!
I love my Roon Nucleus for a lot of different reasons including the fact that you can use your DAC of choice with it. Thanks for the good info John.
Do you get Roon license when you buy Nucleus?
Would be interested to see this tied into your videos on the Raspberry Pi. A full “how to” guide for buying and setting up a Pi as a wifi music streamer for Spotify Connect would also be really useful.
Great video as always! I always stream music via Roon Nucleus and the experience has been great although we’ve had some syncing issues with Roon and Tidal, seems this issue has now been resolved with the updated firmware 😊
Thank you John, very informative :)
Big fan of your channel, I struggled understanding the tech lingo in this one. I will see if you have previous vid explain TOS link, upnp etc
Thanks for video John. I have learnt something. UPnP and Bubble UPnP were a mystery to me !
Its easier for me to understand a diagram, like iphone to ? via? Internet cable, wifi, etc , as this gets more complicated then diagrams make more sense to me, thanks (just a suggestion)
Thank you for the video tutorial. Very helpful as I am tryin to understand Roon and the myriad of other streaming services and delivery protocol options like Airplay, Upnp, etc. Ultimately I want the best quality sound, as does everyone, and with so many options it can be confusing. All my digital music is on iTunes. I miss the days of just CD, tape, and vinyl. Less choices made it less complicated. Great vid as always
Jim, Portland, Oregon
(Comments surpressed, but) Good basics video. I didn't realize how important gapless playback is to some people. But it makes sense to preserve the art as the artist(s) intended. Great way of explaining the phone being a remote vs being the source. Looking forward to the series. 👍
Thanks, I'm just starting with streaming so this really helps!
Steve! If you've any questions about streaming, hit me up via email. Happy to help.
@@DarkoAudio I’m just trying to get into streaming. Your video totally lost me. Where can I get a 101 explanation; like speaking to someone who’s only played vinyl?
Very interesting (as always). I am very curious to see where you want to go with that discussion.
Streaming is a very important issue.
Good background, hope to listen about the quality of the diferent devices. Now I'm using my play station as a streaming of spotfy via optic output to a dac + amp from Cambrige.
Thanks John for your Videos you have made lock down so much better since I found your channel you explain things so much better than almost all other Audio videos.
Questions i've got a few but one to start
I listen to TV as the Spotify, You tube etc source is that equal to other sources like streamers or phone, PC or does it depend on the TV?
Thanks
Music streaming ... a great way to discover or rediscover Kraftwerk... Florian Schneider, one of the cofounder just passed away. As you live in Germany, I took the liberty to evoke a band so ahead of his time ...
Thanks so much! I use Roon and BluOS apps. I learnt at lot from this episode. Keep them coming please.
Is the Roon app really that much better than the Bluos app to justify that sort of expense?
I connect my iems to my fiio btr5 and either use bt or usb mode (in wired)
Sorry if I am not so advanced 😅
Btw that was a very informative video and explanation was very good.
Stay safe :)
Informative and well presented as always....thanks for sharing 👍👍
This is the clearest explanation -- by far -- of the different types of streaming I've ever heard. "You turn off the phone, and the music stops." Perfect!
Hello John, after more than forty years of enjoying music playback through a variety of dedicated 2-channel systems, decades ago I had settled on the old-school peripherals of tuners, turntables and CD players. Now in 2020 I have finally decided to take the plunge into the modern era of digital audio. In the past I have had a decent understanding of what areas I might be willing to make compromises (example: integrated amplifier vs separate preamp and amplifier) and others where I was not so keen to do so (separate external phono preamp vs built-in phono preamp). The specifics in these cases do not matter, so much as that I was able to figure out where I felt my money was best spent for the gains in performance I was after.
I will be watching your Back To Basics series of videos with some interest as I am hoping that I might walk away with a similar understanding when it comes to the modern digital realm of audio. Over the course of years I have ended up with a couple thousand CDs and a great CD Player that I truly enjoy, but that is aging. So I would like to figure out my best path forward sooner rather than later. Am I always to assume that bits are not "just bits" when it comes to things like streamers or dacs or whatever? Where might my money (which is not unlimited) best be spent in terms of of functionality (i.e. streaming, ripping, storing, serving, digital to analog conversion, etc.). Which of these areas stand to provide the best bang for the buck or reveal the most potential for overall improvement. Likewise, when does it make sense to combine these things together physically (for instance, using an all-in-one streamer/ripper/server) as opposed to separating them and making use of a Mac/PC for some portion of the task at hand?
At any rate, so far so good. It seems that avoiding gapless playback through streaming is lesson one, although you might have explained why exactly you feel this way. When making similar points going forward I hope that you might expand on such strong feelings in a bit more detail. In the meantime, I've subscribed and plan to watch, listen & (hopefully) learn. Thanks!
Oh, is THAT all you want to know? Haha....join the club! ; )
P.S.- I'm currently in paralysis by analysis mode.
Just what I needed, thanks.
Looking forward to the other related videos
Great video John
Baseball cap! Who are you and what have you done with John Darko?..... Look forward to the more complex reveal but good groundwork.
Great video. I think that, at some point, you'll need to create a table or graphic of what streams to what and through what, then to where...
And what's the issue w/gapless? Albums aren't gapless...or am I showing my age?
Apparently someone attempted to cut his own hair!
Yep.
@@DarkoAudio That was the first thing i thought too lol Also what a great idea when my Mrs has a go at mine!!
Lol 🙈
August Yellowbeard I was thinking the same. I’m going for the shipwrecked on a desert island without a razor blade look during the lockdown. I was halfway there pre-lockdown anyway!
The trucker look may take some getting used to... ; )
I was never sure if Spotify Connect was gapless on Streamers. I let Chromecast off because it’s a cheap “means to an end” but it would’ve been a definite no-no for me if dedicated Streamers weren’t gapless.
👍🏼
John, love your videos. Question, what are the Stainless steel with rubber weights I see you using?
What I'm most interested in is a streamer that has built-in caching in addition to being able to connect to cloud servers like Tidal. I'm particularly interested in something like the Aurender line. So, I hope you'll include an overview of this kind of storage + streaming device.
Still trying to understand the streaming process. Could you include in a future video a discussion on how the Powernode 2i handles its streaming process, specifically with Roon and Tidal. I know you recently did a video on the powernode, but I'm still a bit confused. Thanks much. I Enjoy your videos.
Like many, I have a Rube Goldberg machine-like set up to stream music. I've got the Chromecast Audio to stream Spotify and I've got an Apple TV to stream music resident on my iphone or mac. Both are run through a MyDAC (Apple TV's music route looks like a scene out of Tron). Sure would be nice to have a simple, one box solution instead of all the switching, but I guess that's what Roon is for. I think.
Hey John great video, might be worth mentioning the new Bluetooth protocols as well. By the way who swithces off their cell phone?
That's right, but imagine when you turn on some music for the family and you leave the house for some shopping...
Or you get a phone call.
Hi John, excellent videos as usual.
Question; why anyone review the new Technics gear? I have de network streamer (ST-C700d an it´s great for me..) Regards from Chile !
Hopefully this will be addressed in a related video.....
My older/dedicated iPad pulls Spotify from our network wirelessly and feeds it via lightning cable to my modest Schiit DAC. I'm on a limited budget and am wondering how my next upgrade options compare...
Insert a streamer connected via network cable in place of the wirelessly connected iPad, and use either the existing DAC or onboard DAC (i.e Bluesound Node 2i), OR
Retain the iPad but insert a 'better sounding' DAC (like Denafrips)
I'm an old school stereo buff that enjoys my cd's and LP's and have mulled over various streaming services. But after watching your video for the 3rd time I'm going to take a couple of aspirin and revisit this video in a couple of days.😖
vinyl surfer ; me too. What is a streamer?
@@Hickalum 😂👍
Great video as usual. Do you recommend using a nuc to run Roon with Windows or just using it as a Roon rock server?
Great video but you might have missed mentioning the likes of sonos or bluesound which are streamers you can control from your phone without needing a chromecast or UPnP but rather a dedicated app. I happen to have a bluesound node 2 and I am extremely happy with it
That's coming in next video.
I am love my Bluesound Node 2i but I am a bit uderwhelmed with how it connects to my Synology NAS. There are all these fantastic music streaming protocols but it uses the ancient windows file sharing SMB protocol.
Great video however for those of us who are abit thick lol, it would be great if you could do a review on the practical side to connecting your streamer to a phone's hotspot.
Many thanks🤪
Where or how are you getting the music onto your rune server to stream from. Great videos by the way.
Perfect timing for me. Looking for streamimng solutions right now.
Thanks for all your videos, BIG Help !! I’m a beginner with the streaming end & an Old 2 channel stereo that has moved to a 5.1 . There’s a pair of Klipsch on the patio for neighbors entertainment is it possible to connect a blue tooth to receiver in basement so ppl could connect there phones/music to enjoy everyone’s choices ? Stereo is 115’ from basement to fire pit .
Just point out that Jriver on PC as UPNP Server and Volumio as UPNP renderer supports gapless playback and sounds fantastic!
Thanks for this. So do you need the Roon server to stream or can you stream only using the Aries and your computer set up? I’m thinking you need the Roon server for Roon. Sorry I’m a complete novice, but very interested in a set up that isn’t too costly.
this was very insightful.. does the Echo link amp work the same way?
Spot on, looking forward to the deeper conversation!
Very nice informative video. If you could do a video covering the music quality of all the versions of bluetooth including AptX vs, say Airplay. Also the utilization of say the Intel bluetooth 6 chip found on current motherboards ans running Windows 10, namely, getting Windows to connect to external bluetooth speakers.
Hi John loving your work. I have a Cambridge Audio cxn 2 streamer with CXA81 amp the cxn 2 streamer is a Roon point. I have a iPhone 11 I Thought I would use it as a remote but do I need a laptop IE my surface pro 4 as a Roon point staying on all the time to make it happen. The only thing i regret is not buying the naim atom cause you can buy it it’s over 2k but has mqa straight from my iPhone. So if I buy Roon for a year does that mean I can stream wirelessly from my laptop 24 bit. Tidal which I love hate plugging it in which works. Thx Martin
I would love your take on the Lindemann Limetree Network Streamer.
Hi, can I ask you why you don't use intel nuc as a core/streamer but only as a core for roon?
thank you John , basic question but it kinda important .. i use an integrated amp with good Dac chip ( sprout100) if i want adding streamer like bluesound 2i feeding the amp an analog signal so the amp will do the amplification (Only) to the signal without using the dac that build in the sprout100 , So in this case iam using the dac of the streamer , the QUESTION is it better using system with streamer build in like bluesound Powernode 2I to benifit of matching the dac , amp, and streamer or feed the integrated amp from spirit streamer
Assuming you are comparing gapless systems, and all audio equipment is the same, will the device receiving the streaming signal influence the quality of the sound? Or is a signal, a signal and the only true differentiator will be the audio equipment and not the system receiving the streaming signal? I am wondering if receiving a streaming signal through my pc is influencing the final audio product.
As a newbie to this streaming thing, thank you for this info. I've started streaming with a Tidal/Bubble uPnP/Raspberry Pi 4b/Volumio/USB DAC. Steep learning curve for me. I'm keen to get an MQA capable USB DAC to play Masters Quality tracks on Tidal (I'm subscribed to this). My question is, will it be able to work with my setup? Cheers John.
Mus Aziz can you connect hdd to Rpi 4b/Volumio and stream audio files from it?
Hi John, speaking of streamers: Which power cord do you enjoy with the Node 2i? I am thinking of the Nordost Purple Flare or something from AUdioquest, but not quite sure what to expect. Thanks!
My first experience with streaming was by using the Logitech Squeezebox wich was developed by Slim Devices. This thing was perfect with easy installation and easy opperation supporting aac en flac all with gapless playback. When it broke I started looking around for something new but all new gear had limitations or costed an insane amount of money(and still had limitations in some ways). I just couldn't find something I understood how to work easely or that I thrusted to give me problem free opperation like the Squeezebox did for many many years. I then bought a Chromecast Audio wich sadly doesn't do gapless when connected digitaly to my dac but it does do Spotify pretty good and could also be used to stream music from my laptop. No I've gone back to just playing the cd for the best gapless performance and basicly have given up on streaming as a solution to play all my ripped cd's. Just not worth the hassle to me, I wanna play and enjoy music, not mess about with personal computers, servers and streamers. At 47 I already feel I'm to old for this crap, where one things works on one computer and, allthough I install everything the same, not on another or that after an update everything stops working like it used to. Thank god for Android phones and tablets or else I would be completely lost.
Google Chromecast Audio does play gapless. I use Play Music though, but I also stream FLAC files from my phone using the HiFi Cast app and I can play gapless up to 24/96
Great Video John..as always.
I just don't get the dis-like for non-Gap-Less playback. I don't understand how that little blank spot between tracks bothers people. If you listen to a record, (tape), or CD you will get that same gap. It is really how the music is created and has been listened to for years.
Also the gap is annoying, but you have mentioned several times you don't mind Spotify music. To me there is a very big difference between the quality of music from Spotify HD and something like Amazon HD (or Tidal, or Qobuz, etc).
Hi John!
As always, thanks for the banger of a video! I've been looking for a new DAC/Amp combo for a couple months. Ever since you got me hooked on Roon, I've been looking for something with streaming capability as well. Based on your reccomendation, I was saving my pennies for an Aurilac Altair G1. Well, after watching a review from another trusted reviewer(Sandu over at Soundnews), I've actually decided on another, significantly cheaper, unit, which has not only all the same functionaly as the Altair, but according to Sandu, a very similar, if not better, level of preformance. This unit would be the Flux Lab FCN-10. The functionality seems right up your ally, might be worth checking out, and seeing if you can get your hands on it for review.
Thanks again mate, cheers!
Thank you for your informative video. Would you, or anyone reading this comment, know if there today on the market a system where we can play and memorize I-tune radio stations without having to suffer a 15 to 20 seconds gap when we just want to jump from a station to another ? (Most of my streaming is from I-tune radios stations through a Pioneer Elite SX-N30 receiver which has this gap). Thank you for any insight.
Hey, I’m really new to Hifi systems so slowly building up. I am currently using a Denon DM41 paired with some Dali Spektor 2 as speakers, and I’m thinking about possible getting a dedicated streamer ideally the Bluesound node 2i, would the Nodi 2 pair well with my set up already? Currently just using tidal streamed over Bluetooth.
Hi Darko. I'm wondering what you think of Plex as a potential competitor to Roon. It's a lot cheaper, and seems to do much of the same stuff, including gapless. I'm sure it's not as good as Roon, but maybe it's a suitable alternative for those with tighter pockets and who also use it for video playback?
John. Take a look at the Nvidia Shield & Android TV os. It has support for USB High Definition Stereo 24/192. Has all the audio apps possible. Cast functionality and UPNP. As well with Android Developer mode you can disable HDMI and run it like a cast device without TV on.
Bro, I am picking up what you are putting down. Damn
What do you think about Yamaha’s WXC-50 Pre amp network streamer ?
Hello John, what do you think about the Airport Express sound quality as a streamer? Can it be used with Roon?
Thank you for the discussion. How does SiriusXm fit into this, if it does?
Hi John, I see the Klipsch 600s are back. Did you buy them eventually? I remember you were considering buying them when you reviewed them. I am considering as well. So did you go for it in the end?
As a certified Geezer I learn so much from your videos, thank you. Do you need to be concerned about whether the streamer you choose plays Tidal, Spotify and Qobuz? Am I wrong that some streamers don't play all 3?
You are correct to email concerned. The least available in the USA is Qobuz, but I recommend seeking it out if Classical and Jazz are important to you.
I know you don't do "what's best" advice. I'm thinking of going down the "streamer" route, with a bluesound node, I currently use Spotify with Amazon echo. Could you do something on matching such a streamer with amps, if needed, and speakers etc
I see many people don't understand what gapless playback means. First, it is gapless only if it should be. If you listen an album, or random tracks, there still be gaps between the tracks, so don't worry!.The gapless playback comes only when you play mixed albums/compilations/DJ sets, radio shows and similar. DJ mixes uploaded on Soundcloud or Mixcloud are just one big music file, so it always will be gapless, but when you buy physical album that contains a mixed compilation, or stream it from services like Spotify, Tidal etc..., it is chopped to the different tracks, so you can have a metadata and navigate easier. But if the software doesn't support gapless playbay, all the magic from the continues mix will be lost. I mainly listen to electronic music, have huge physical and digital collection of music, and will never, NEVER buy a streamer or player that doesn't support gapless payback.
Great video. I use the Chromecast audio myself and although it is fine with BBC Sounds, it's unusable with spotify. The cast cuts off usually after one song. It seems like there are a lot of people suffering from this and one reddit guy questioned Spotify and got the reply that casting isn't supported. Go figure.
That is Bullocks...Here in Sweden Spotify and Chromecast audio works just fine..Tidal on the other hand🙄