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"It's industry standard" is basically a dressed-up form of saying, "What we're doing is okay, because other people are doing it." Pretty sure people in my life were debunking that argument when I was in elementary school.
Agreed, ever since we saw a $70 price tag a few months ago(I forget the game but it was a recent AAA), now we see that on more upcoming AAA games, after $60 was bad enough when it’s unfinished- not even mentioning Gold packs which used to be in the base game for $100+
The Twisted & The Twilight will be always a peak for me. 3 Legendary lords which one was free(Yeah, I know you needed your own Wood Elves to get Drycha), free re-work, cool new units, more lord/hero types, *3 LEGENDARY HEROS* You never realize how good you had, until it was taken from you.
Nah, Ikit Claw was such a HUGE change. Fk the lords, we saw soooo many NEW UNITS and a new mechanic thats still the best one in the game... all it cost was 8 fkn $
@@uppermost865 Tomb Kings for me is around the level of Chaos Dwarfs, which is to say they are some of the best. But to be fair race packs are always some of the best. I really liked vampire coast too. The only one I "regret" buying is wood elves since I hate being a tree hugger
The Warden and the Paunch, with Eltharion, Grom and Imrik as FLC was one of my favorites. Tons of content, added more areas to the map, mixed up the situation in Ulthuan and Bretonnia and the Badlands… Also whichever one had Ikit Claw, and the one that added Snikch/Malus. Those were the days…
Nakai not being able to recruit kroxigors really hurt my opinion on CA. I really like Nakai’s campaign because it’s really simple to play. Get the kroxi-boys and run wild. They aren’t testing changes and they’re increasing prices. They expect people to pay more for less.
One can argue that Nakai's kroxigors being busted counts as false advertising/deliberate sale of faulty product on CA's part. CA is no doubt aware of the issue but refuses to implement a hotfix or pull the product from sale until it's fixed. Really does not set a good look for a company pulling shit like this where (if severe enough) they can be charged with fraud.
Legend, the 'stakeholders' are doing JUST FINE. It isn't as if they are seeing poor returns now. It's just that there is a constant demand for continual, UNLIMITED growth... and therefore to squeeze ever harder on consumers.
@@ASHFAR578 I was thinking about that too. So we're fucked either way? Either we buy for an insanely inflated price or don't buy and risk the possibility of being 3k'ed
$15 is the most I will pay for this DLC. This is coming from someone who has all 3 games with all DLC up to this point. This will be the first DLC I will not buy on release.
I agree, I think I've already supported enough of content from CA this is when line is crossed. Plus I'm struggling with job and finances so every penny matters to me now and it's not much left sadly. BUT, the problem is ... that CA didn't bother to fix the game and update it in time, and I'm sick of AI in WH3 it's hot garbage, going to stick with BG3 for near future.
same i have bought all dlc for wh2 1 and nearly every total war game. this is getting out of hand. 15 dollars would be 1199 ish for euros but still fairer than the current price spike with more content.
some people just know where the bread gets buttered tbh. a game with no community is dead, look at from the depths, ten years old and still crazy active because of its community
BG3 spent 3 years in early access and is disappointment to the fans of the first two games like myself-I wanted a Baldur’s Gate game, not Divinity: Original Sin 3
@@burtreynolds8030 It’s annoying, I guess they justify it with Campaign Mechanics which is just annoying as I prefer tangible content like more non reskin units and lords. Like unless the Campaign Mechanics straight up warp how you would play, then I don’t really value it that much.
The problem is not that it's more expensive, the problem is it's much more expensive. They also messed up a lot of things with warhammer 3, they should adress those first.
It's much more expensive and the units in it are kinda uninspiring additions to the rosters. These are newish factions with limited rosters and playstyles and the new units they're getting are not going to open up new playstyles or meaningfully make the existing ones better. I'm not looking at any of those units and thinking "yeah, I'll recruit those they look like they'll change things".
I think the reddit boycott if you could say is working somewhat because this dlc is the only one in recent mind that is not in the top 100 of steam. I know its only in pre order but usually when a dlc is announced for this game it shoots up pretty high in steams best selling list even during pre-order. So maybe we will see some change idk only time will tell.
its a good sign but only if it hurst them in their bottom line. This practice MUST not be more profitable then just putting a bit more effort and asking for a fairer prices. These people are absolutely soulless when it comes to the fanbase and how much money they can make. For them we are just cattle.
It's definitely had an effect. I've been basically a corporate stooge cheerleader for this game as well as WH2 during all of it's rough patches, of which there were a few. They crossed a line with this price increase for me though and I know I'm not the only one. Preordered every DLC as soon as they were announced previously, this will be the first one I don't get until a real sale
For me at least the problem is increasing the pricing while having a whole bunch of things still broken. If the game was in good shape I probably wouldn't have scoffed at the new price as much,
Yeah, I’ll also hold out, which sucks. I’m really interested in the Cathay stuff (love them, but feel like they’re missing something) but $25 for this is too much. I’m sad to say I gave them a pass for Chaos Dwarfs, but that was the last straw. If this means they abandon WH3 like they did 3K? Then so be it.
This is definitely the last straw given it's the same price as Chaos Dwarfs (which was already the most expensive DLC ever), but with a lot less content.
Sadly like many folks in life, a carrot alone is not enough, a stick is also deeply needed, sometimes pain is the only solution I doubt CA will improve without a long lasting disaster which will leave a mark But iam completely indiffrent to whether TWW3 eventually become a success in 2030 or left in the dumpster
Chaos Dwarfs was just barely worth the price increase imo, and I also defended it. All of the content was great, there were new music tracks, and most importantly innovative new mechanics. Then they get the bright idea to release a DLC at the same price that would have cost half as much during WH2? I don't get it. Nobody should support this, they really stepped over a line here
We’ve been saying this for over a decade now. Yet they are so massive that they won’t die, they’ll just wither and buy up more or merge. This has been playing out in almost all industries for over a century. Even if something comes up to compete they’ll use all their immense resources to drown em out, buy em up or straight up steal from them They can charge that much because those that control the resources decided that they can
Except it's not remotely true. Diablo 4 sold 3.5x the copies on Launch week that D3 sold. Even with Blizzards abysmal reputation and performance. The masses are gunna keep buying year after year, and the sales trends show that. In fact, many companies are seeing record profits. It's a pipe dream that the gouging will stop. For every 1 person who will boycott and move on, theres 30 who will pay even more. Like legend says, they don't care about unit sales. They care about revenue, and business is booming.
@@HauntingSpectre I don't have much hope, but the big difference is Diablo is set up for microtransactions, not flat DLCs. A few idiot whales can keep that game going forever. Even the most braindead of consoomer can only buy as many Warhammer DLCs that were made, and they can only buy them once.
@@TaRAAASHBAGS It's not about whether or not it's set up for Microtransactions. Its simply about the unit sale and price increase. Even with out the MTX set up, Diablo 4 out sold D3, and thus made more money. The MTX is just bonus cash, and companies that don't use that, can still rely on broken price schemes knowing gamers will still buy the product. Blizzard being a perfect example, because literal Millions have stopped buying Blizzard games due to how shit they've become, but the company can still manage to make record sales, because of A: People who don't care and consume mindlessly, and B: new blood entering the market who is unaware or equally does not care. CA will most likely be no different, because there will still be more revenue made despite the extreme pricing, and so they don't care about who didn't buy the game, as long as the few who did, paid more money than those who didn't. Those same idiot whales will just buy every warhammer DLC, regardless of price. The increase doesn't bother them. So CA will still make more money, so long as the price is high enough.
Normies don't care about this shit, you think Jerry over there with his 3 kids and full-time job is gonna worry about CA drama? No dude, most people are like Jerry lol
You are not mistaking. They increased the older DLC's prices across the board. Here in my country Tomb kings and Vampire Coast were 25 or 15 bucks. Now is 110 or 100 like chaos dwarfs. It was a MASSIVE increase in price. Fortunally I got them before that. But even so it's sad that new players need to pay the newer price to get it.
I think he is from Brazil just as I am. Unfortunately, I think there have been a new decree about taxes on games. On top of that, we have a not so stable currency against the US dollar which should add to the mess (although as a minor piece of it). To end the whole storm, I think steam/CA/don’t know who did adjust the prices. I can’t exactly remember when, but they had it adjusted to the new tax/currency rates almost all at once which did pump the prices of mostly all games. Some went up 100%, other a little bit less. To end my huge text, I’m quite sure he got those DLC during steam sale, I did pay R$25,00 (twenty five Brazilian Reais) on it back then, now they’re tagged as R$100,00 (when not on sale). I might as well be wrong about everything, but that’s what I think.
I checked my old receipts and hunter and the beast dlc was 8.09 USD with a 10% discount for buying it early on steam so it would have cost 8.99 USD. Now it is listed at 9.99 USD.@@Zomgnomnom1
Always a pleasure to see these videos where Legend make an objective summary and discussion of a situation for the betterment of the Total War community. Thanks for helping the community so much Legend!
When the game first came out there were concerns that it wasn't going to be an accurate adaptation of Warhammer Fantasy. Glad to see CA has stepped up and gone that extra mile to faithfully implement the features of the tabletop version to the digital landscape.
I think milkandcookiesTW term "greedflation" is spot on when it comes to describing everything that's happening, just not related to this DLC but in general.
Greedflation is one of the worst takes I've seen. If it was, then companies would be posting the highest net income during the 2021-2022 when inflation was highest (they didn't, aside from a few exceptions mostly in the tech sector). You can take Walmart for example where their cost of goods sold and SG&A expenses outpaced their sales growth. Which is why I view Chaos Dwarfs DLC price hike to be fine. From 2016-2023 inflation compounded monthly would be around 30%. Where $25 for Chaos Dwarfs is right there. Now I expected CA to do the same for this DLC, so this DLC should be around $13-15. But I guess they're seeing what they can get away with. And again, that's their prerogative, and its also your choice to buy or not.
@@marsryo6569that doesn’t quite add up. Inflation is high, yes, but is also compounded by companies setting record breaking profits. It’s not going to be a 1 to 1 with inflation at the highest level = the highest level of profit. It’s just , inflation is a percentage and it’s being exacerbated by greedflation to go even higher. I think everyone can agree massive corporations raking us over the coals isn’t good for anyone.
@@MrSkeltal268 Where is your source of record breaking profits? I am a certified financial planner and accountant. Looking at the income statements and balance sheets of fortune 500 companies along with other private ventures is my job. People forget that inflation also affects companies. Again with Walmart, they've posted their 2023 income statements along with 2022, 2021 and the net income is worse than 2019. All this information is public, see for yourself. This is the same with most other companies in merchandising and industrial sector. Tech companies books and assets are different, but they still took a hit. While I dont think CA is doing a smart business decision with $25 for this lord pack, "Greedflation" is a lazy way to explain inflation.
@@marsryo6569 "I'm a certified financial planer and accountant" And somewhat ignorant of how to convince people online. Giving "qualifications" online is the first recourse of anyone that is full of shit because it cannot be proven. As you said, all the information is public. Tldr; people are less likely to believe you if you make un-proven claims. You are better off justs making your point. Especially if you have data or references to back it up.
"Review bombing", although it was very much justified, definitely worked for War Thunder. WT community also went through a similar poop storm recently, and WT devs completely changed course because of that.
I've never changed a review until now, they've caused me to change my steam review to negative. I really hope this backlash has some effect because the price increase is just obscene.
Yes but Warthunder is a very different concept. They NEED good reviews because this game lives from people constantly beeing online playing their game, buying premium accounts and so on. Its much more of a live service game. Total War on the other hand is largely a singleplayer game. If one has bad reviews than they just stop support for it and they move on to another game release next year.
review bombing lost most of its meaning, now people use it every time more than 1 person gives a negative review. actual review bombing happens very, very rarely
@@manfredthegreat Agree. Also both games have a finite "lore". Warhammer fantasy is limited, as is the number of vehicles that Gaijin can implement in War Thunder. But the are different games. Both need to retain their players and gain new ones to sell their DLCs.
If you love warhammer and want to preserve its image and integrity, you gotta take a stand and show them what you aren’t willing to accept, if you just don’t buy the new stuff they’ll notice lol
I'm more disappointed by the content thats offered than the price asked. A few units look cool but overall, its a tad underwhelming after how amazing Forge of the Chaos Dwarfs was. The increase in price is just the cherry on top in regards to my decision to not by the DLC.
With what you said about Industry Standard - BG3 turned up at the perfect time. I saw a really good thought the other day along the lines of "good is relative to the moment, a mediocre game made with love today will raise hell", and I think its no surprise that a game (that honestly might not deserve to be the highest rated pc game of all time) which has timely patches, polish and genuine care put into is now considered the best game of all time by people who are turning around and go "why are we ok getting far less from our game?"
I think it's important to note that CA made conscious effort to extract themselves from Reddit in the lead up to TW:WH3. Now I think that the reason is that they knew there would be a lot of issues with the release, and with the coming DLC, so they knew they couldn't have someone like Grace getting beat up in the court of public opinion. One of the best things in TW:WH2 was Grace's constant updates and all the memes around her and the great communication she had with the community. Why else would CA give that up? Lots of companies are doing this, they are tired of being called out for their issues on Reddit so they decide to simply not go there at all. This is why having a public square like Reddit is important, for all its downsides, at least it is a place that people can have an open and honest discussion.
not when its a Supplier's market. but somehow retards are still paying for $600 DLC or some shit even tho gaming industry is clearly a Buyer's Market situation
It’s better to keep playing without buying to show people are interested but unwilling to shill for overpriced content. If you stop playing they will just stop making any content.
You can either buy this and chorfs (or whatever the next dlc with even less content will be) for 50 bucks, OR you buy Baldurs Gate 3, a game which respects their playerbase.
BG3 is a completely different genre. I dont know why you bring that up here. Yes BG3 might be super. But i am not a fan of the genre and i will not buy it. Neither will i buy overpriced dlcs. I have not bought Chaos dwarfs nor will i do this one. On a 50-75% sale yes.
its not about the genre, its the thought process of spending your money on a company that respects the players time. insert another game from a genre you like instead of BG3 and don't be so simple minded lol @@michaelgibtsnet8195
I think if they add like two more lords, maybe chaos or legacy factions, then maybe folks wouldn’t get too miffed But three lords and a paid legendary hero isn’t enough
@@ngraderbut he's right, if they want to ask for 25 bucks or more then they should justify it with enough content, so at least it's worth it. That being said, I do not believe any DLC without new race is worth it. It's not like it completly overhauls the experience... it just gives you new lord to start with and some new units and mechanics at best.
$25 is just too much for dlc that isn't delivering vast amounts of content. We as consumers never benefitted and saved money from the near death of people buying physical copies (companies save on not needing to physically make copies), yet they want to justify a LARGE hike in price when not even delivering large unprecedented content.
I finally gave my review on WH3. Since the price increased, the work to fix game and bugs stopped, I had to honestly shoot a negative one. Openly and without hate. I won't be buying new DLC. Just sticking to my guns until I see a huge discount to buy it. This is a game I will return to, especially with co-op. But I will just move on. Increase price? Sure, if you do put similar work behind it. So far they don't. So I will put nice middle finger towards them.
@@liskacek1 I put 340 hours into it as of now. Compared to WH2 it's not even one fourth of my playing hours. Not even trying to compare to Legend, but I did enjoy the game when I had time. I knew this would finally happen, so I didn't send my review until now..
It pained me to do it but I also switched my reviews, and I won’t buy this dlc. Even on 90% sale. Just so they can look back at this as a thing never to do again.
The vast majority of inflation is not caused by a cost increase. It is a wave of "if they can raise the price and get away with it we'll do it to" kind of deal. Economics are based on sociology first and maths last.
Let's be real they are ABUSING, US. You're right, it's not OUR problem they have to try so hard to meet whatever goal they have. If they would make a BETTER product, it would be EASIER for them to hit said Goal. It sounds like "whatever" goal they have, they're being led horribly.
By only using Stellaris, hes ignoring the broken DLC for EU4. There is a naval and trade DLC that only gets you a button to press. The rest of the dlc was erased with a newer dlc, but you cant access half of the content from the second dlc without owning the first one that was erased, as the first one is the only way you get access to the button.
Ngl I haven’t thought about sailing under the skull and bones flag with total war since college but I’m at that point again Im just tired of funding gluttony and not passion. So much passion and it keeps being trampled, it breaks my heart
23:28 yes they did raise the price at I believe between 2018 and 2020 which we ended up with Rome 2 going from 50€ back to 60€. So Rome 2 a 10 year old game did not get a price decrease but a price increase.
I would love if CA would start to cooperate with community more, for instance, there is that reloading animation mod, some authors of mods even write that CA can implement their work for free. They said campaign map edits are not possible due to technology used (more like they dont want us to do it), and modders now found a way and instatly created mod that fills blank spots of the campaign map with decent lore intepretation and placeholder factions...
The one cathartic thing is that their own greed is hampering them from making even more money. Yes they made a bit more in the short term, but right now consumer friendly practices are so rare in the gaming industry, that a company that actually treats their customers well is basically guaranteed to have an incredible golden goose on their next decent game. Look at baldurs gate 3. Even my dad bought it without me even mentioning it to him, just because he’d heard such good things. Yes it’s a great game, but they are successful also because they fostered a loyal and enthusiastic fan base who trust them to give them lots of quality content without loot boxes and micro-transactions, etc. Because of this, these loyal fans spread like a virulent nurglish plague, as does the interest for the game. Upon release, even after years of early access (you’d think enthusiasm would’ve basically died by now), it gets universal acclaim and hits the top of steam sales. They’ve also basically guaranteed to have a large degree of success with their next game as well, due only to this. People are slavering for good will from CA. They are frankly being quite stupid not capitalizing on it. I don’t even mean morally. Just from a business perspective. There’s a gold mine under them and they’d rather piss it all away for a few bucks right now, instead of cultivating a loyal and enthusiastic audience. tldr: basically CA is razing Altdorf for 1k instead of colonizing it and making 2.5k per turn.
Sadly this kind of short-sightedness is strongly encouraged by modern corporate culture. The executives that ultimately decide what the company does usually have their pay and bonuses tied to quarterly or yerly earnings of the company, and as a result they only care about the bottom line of the current year or quarter. This leads them to make decisions that are stupid or even catstrophical for the company in the long term but provide a short term boost to its earnings; razing your capital for a bunch of cash right now while crippling your long term earnings, as you said The thing is, this isn't actually stupid from the point of view of the executives. They get their bonuses today even if their actions cause the company to go bankrupt tomorrow, after which they move to another company and repeat the cycle. It's bd for the company, bad for the customers, bad for the employees, but good for the people calling the shots, and that is why they keep doing it
@@exantiuse497 So how do we give the people who actually care more power to make the right decisions for the company? How do we incentivize policies that are good for the company, dare I say even, good for the consumer?
Yeah the old DLCs had their price increased at least twice. It was pretty subtle. You can see the price history of all Steam products in their info page.
Absolutely. It's stuff like that where it really sucks that we have an uncreative, dispassionate company using an ancient engine so it's hard to tell whether a change like that is even possible or is just something ca can't be bothered to do
@@card4933 I also think at this point re doing the ai for each faction (for faction specific ai) would take them so long and require so many resources that it will never happen and if it ever does it will be modders that do it not CA
@@Frostile yeah it's really too bad ca has fallen into the business practice of prioritizing new features and projects while seemingly viewing updating and maintaining older mechanics as almost beneath them. Make you wonder what all that "expansion" at ca legend talked about is up to over there if theyre barely making headway into the new stuff nowadays
My Azazel meme in Legends video! He even comments on it!!! (fanboy-mode off😂). Thanks to the person who uploaded it on Reddit. (I only use Discord, because I thought of Reddit beeing to toxic) Very glad to see that people are able to have respectful discussions over there.
This DLC I simply wont buy, even on sale. Boycott the dlc or we will get ONLY 25 dollar lord packs with mediocre content followed by 50 dollar Race pack, like Negash, or any others that we may want.
@@ho8ojoe8 Yes, lol Im subbed to both and watch a ton of WH content, I am a bit of a Warhammer super fan, I bought every DLC before... and now I stand with the side of community that thinks this is unacceptable.
At this point, probably the only studio I'd consider pre-ordering from is Larian, because they’ve proven with BG3 that they’re actually willing to make a proper game when given the chance. CA could learn a thing or two from them.
It's an interesting discussion about value when discussing Aekold versus free legendary lords. I would argue that some of the free legendary lords have such a shallow level of mechanics that I would rather have Ulrika and Aekold as heroes than another wasted lord like Tretch.
objectively its worse since a lord is far more content then a hero but subjectively it depends on the person like ive had way more fun with imrik and alith anar then most lords ive payed for but i like high elfs so i don't even need them to be particularly good tor me to like tho does help both of them have good mechanics
The one thing that everyone forgets to adress is the map. Where will you put all these lords? There would simply be no place on the map to put them. Where would you put Harald? Ulrika? Aekold? The map is a battle royale right now. Nehekara is a brawl between Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Skarbrand, French, Lizardmen, High Elves, The empire, Tzeench and Vampires. Same situation with the empire where Franz and Gelt have to worry about Festus, Drycha, Norsca, Be'lakor, Azhag,Beastmen and later in the campaign Kholek Archaon and with the realese of this DLC The Changeling. In Naggarond Malekith has to worry about Khatep, Sisters, Valkia and Grombrindal. In all of my IE campaigns Skarsnik kills Thorgrim by turn 7 while claiming Eight Peaks at 10. I just can't see FLC LLs as a thing now without making the whole game Lustria Bowl.
Drycha, Lokhir, Alith Anar, Imrik, Rakarth there's a lot of good and varied flc lords. Tretch is uniquely bad and even then they updated him in WH3 to be ever so slightly less worthless to the point he's essentially the better clan moulder now.
@@sauronplugawy3866 you do realize were getting 3 lords in pact instead 2 and 1 being free its literally the same amount of lords added but were getting a hero for free instead. i don't understand what your even arguing about since the maps still gona get flooded with lords like we already have 6 more confirmed after this dlc the maps gona be flooded regardless we just have to pay for more of them now
you championing this cause been very nice for the sake of information and to be able to stand behind and support you. Thank you for your work and keep it up!
They have, except, most paradox DLC have significantly more dev time investment, or are more significant updates than what CA puts out. Not saying that justifies the DLC pricing necessarily, however many of the Paradox DLC are just significantly more worth the price for what they offer compared to this kind of pricing gimmick.
I just checked, at least in Euros the prices for old DLCs are still the same as they have always been. So 9€ for game 1, 10€ for game 2 lord packs (which I actually remembered it to be 9, but I might be wrong here), 19€ for race packs (with the exception of pre-order DLCs and game 3 DLCs) So at the very least they're not upping the price of old DLCs. They haven't crossed that line yet.
I was happy to pay 25€ for an Anno 1800 Season pass which included 3 new dlcs and a lot of content but 25€ only 3 lords 11 units including characters feels way too expensive. Especially with all the bugs in the game that are not getting addressed.
This is why I support smaller developers that genuinely show that they care about their community, 100% I understand you can't make everyone happy with every patch/DLC but it's pretty obvious when the vast majority of a community shifts in mentality and feelings. That speaks for itself that we feel overlooked and disrespected as a consumer. When a company stops seeing a person as their customer they absolutely lose brand trust and historical support.
Think so too. Also Pharaoh is not received well (although perhaps things will change ones the game is released). But if Paradox can make a "Medieval- type" game. And they learn to make real tactical battle, they could really hurt CA big times
chaos dwarfs was the first dlc i didn't buy ever since i got into total war warhammer some years ago, and it looks like the trend will continue. i was never interested in chorfs and i'm very much interested in kislev (other two look cool too), but i guess i'll just play bg3 until there's some steam sale. i know total war community is not really a target of bg3, but i like the game just fine and i really want larian to succeed beyond any expectations - maybe that way other companies see that there's actually money in releasing good product without million bugs and then actually communicating with fanbase. you're right about the execs seeing where money is, so supporting fair game companies hopefully would make producing good games a good and obvious decision again.
Thanks for being a reasoned voice for the Total War community Legend. I have all 3 games and have pre-ordered pretty much all the DLC up to this point. But no more.
Thanks for participating in telling CA to fuck off, i did the same but stopped at the Chaos Dwarf DLC. We need to take some power back in this industry.
@@khorneflakes2175 gamers need to start towing the line. Activision/Blizzard has been getting away with BS. I've made exceptions for Warhammer because it's my lifetime love, but you're right, it has to stop.
Re: inflation. Profits literally are why inflation is happening. They are causing inflation. They are. They're the reason. High profits are the reason for high prices, always has been, always will be.
What's the point of continuation for this game in this state? Does it make a difference what unit model you have to rush capture points in sieges? The game needs a proper overhaul or it can burn in hell.
They need better accountants then to step up and tell them the lack of sales is due to a too high price point. Like trying to sell a Camry for the price of a Lexus and then freaking out when they don't sell. Just lower the price a bit, sales will go back up with more than enough margin for the work the put into the content.
Won’t happen. They don’t have any other games that make nearly as much money. That said I would rather have a quick death for this game then a long drawn out which is happening right now
I have another issue alongside the price of the DLC. When lord packs have been released in the past, they've normally done some significant changes to existing races (look at the Beastmen or Wood Elf overhauls as examples). There's quite a few races that really feel like they could use some significant updates/changes to their mechanics and all 3 races that are in this DLC are good examples of that, and they also said in their roadmap that update 4.0 would be including race updates. The "race update" that they've talked about for Tzeentch is so minor and inconsequential compared to changes they've made alongside DLC in the past and unless they make some significant changes to Kislev or Cathay, I'd consider this update to be rather pathetic compared to most WH2 updates. In addition to that, there's so many bugs and issues present in the game that still haven't been addressed. Though I'll admit I think the content in the DLC looks great, it feels like CA only cares about the profit and no longer cares about the product. All the aspects of the game that won't make an instant profit (updates and bug fixing) seem to be getting neglected.
I really appreciate your videos! The gaming community is most certainly in need of more channels like yours. The ability to create a medium between gamers and the corporate side of things is extremely important. You do an amazing job giving us crucial information while at the same time explaining the situation from both sides all while staying cool, calm, and collected. Thanks so much and please keep it up!!
I look at it this way. I bought baldur's gate for 70$ and I have over 150 hours so far and I am really enjoying it. If this DLC costs 25$ and is a third of the price of baldur's gate 3 I should get 1/3 of the value of baldur's gate 3 out of it. Which the value of this pack at most to me is a couple camgians at around 20ish hours 5 if I dont enjoy the lord. The new mechanics and time is not worth the price for me. Maybe at 7$ it would be m. I hold every new game and dlc to my new standard which is baldur's gate 3, elden ring, and factorio. What is the value I am paying against these games which I have many hours in and fun in. To me it is definitely not worth it.
This is exactly why senior devs have been complaining about BG openly since it leads to this kind of intuitive cost benefit analysis. If a game that long and content rich can be 70$, then we expect at least half that at half the price, etc.
No offence, man, but this kind of thinking is stupid. I won't buy the Dlc either, but still. Baldur's gates are just too big and high-budget to be comparable in that regard. Same with Elden Ring. It's just that kind of games, which give potentially hundreds of hours of content for players, not everyone should give you the same amount. I agree with CA overpricing their products and this Dlc specifically (and some past stuff, wtf, it should become cheaper, not the other way!), especially since the quality of it only dropping below, but you just can't expect every game to give you the amount of content like Baldur's gates and Elden ring...
@@legionerer Which is where he mentions Factorio. You can also add in say, Rimworld, games which easily offer 1000's of hours of content, and in the case of Rimworld, have amazing DLC that add incredible value and replayability to the game, which WH3 just cannot compare with at all, for a much lower price. Even if those games are not your cup of tea, it is reasonable to expect games to offer a certain value and enjoyment for the money spend, and this DLC just doesn't hold up at all. Even compared to vanilla wh3, which you could get a significant amount of hours (People get hundreds of hours out of it), compared to this DLC which is almost half the price and doesn't offer even 1/10th the content or replay value, and is build on an already existing engine so the amount of work required to produce the content is also insignificant compared to the vanilla game by a huge margin, so the price is completely unjustified on every front.
@@luka188 i think you misunderstood me. I never defended WH3 and especially it's Dlc. This game was mostly a dissapointment in terms of... A lot of stuff, pretty sure you now yourself. My only point was that comparing everything to BG 3 and Elden ring will be a mistake. And speaking about Factorio, I've never mentioned it because I've never played, but I've heard a lot of good stuff about it.
I really like the tone of your latest videos! Very community centered, well dosed criticism. I kinda stopped following when i felt you werent having fun anymore, but now you are back on my watchlist. Good job man :)
@10:10 Maybe there's not enough crossover in the playerbase, or maybe it's simply been forgotten but I think it's worth taking into consideration what Paradox did a few years ago. CKII and EUIV both had about 15 full DLC, as well as cosmetics, ebooks and soundtracks. For veterans that had been playing the game since Day 1 this wasn't a problem because it was $10 here and $15 there over the course of years. New players that had been seeing the memes for years and wanted to see what all the fuss was about, however, were obliged to pay several hundred dollars "all at once" for a "complete game". If any of this sounds familiar, it's because WH3 now has 20 DLC, for a total of $AU375, and new players are asking the same questions. The standard response given by members of the CKII community to new players asking about all the DLC was to buy them when Steam had a sale. It wasn't just newbies, either. New DLC were met by veteran players with "I'll wait for a Steam sale". Whatever the truth, there was very strong evidence within the community itself that many, if not most, players were waiting for Steam sales before buying DLC (for a game they likely bought on sale in the first place). How did Paradox fix this problem? Easy. They released a new DLC with an inflated price and then, just before a Steam sale, Paradox increased the price of all their DLC by almost double. It used to cost around $AU300 for the base game and all DLC. Now it costs $AU450 for the DLC alone... which nobody is paying because they're all buying it on sale. Ask yourself how many new WH3 players are paying full price for DLC, and notice how this minor DLC is the same price a major DLC. Also take into consideration how many people will (usually) pre-order for the 10% discount. They haven't increased the price of their old DLC (yet) but if these are the new 'standard' prices, then it may not be far off. I hate to say it almost as much as I hate to experience it but when most of your sales are coming during 50% discounts and Steam is taking a 30% cut of the profits, stuff like this has to happen. This DLC will be the first one I haven't pre-ordered, the day before release for the discount, since I got a new PC and could upgrade from WH1 to WH2. I will be waiting for a 50% off Steam sale to buy it at the price it should be. To be perfectly honest, though, I've played more BG3 in the last couple of weeks than I have WH3 in the last few months. If it wasn't for that, I would probably have ended up just angrily getting a 10% discount on the extortionate price.
CA is definitely not hurting. They're making millions. The cost for supporting WH3 is not increasing either, in fact its probably decreasing considering they seem to be expanding their teams for other games. I heard an argument that they are trying to offset the expected losses from hyaenas and pharaoh by squeezing the money out of WH3 which seems like a possible explanation. Either way this is 1000% CA trying to squeeze money out of the franchise and the price increase is in no way a response to inflation or them losing money.
the total war subreddit deserves no applause at all. They are constantly attacking anyone with any opinion that dissents from the blessed boycott, you will be downvoted for expressing *anything* but support for boycotting the DLC. Any post about not misdirecting your rage at SoC against other targets like employees or other DLC are immediately downvoted and hidden. Just because the reddit is currently promoting the thing you agree with doesn't mean its behavior deserves praise.
Isnt that the same reddit who spearheaded the 3K mod censorship because some PR person threatened to pull her pointless visits? Should we really be surprised about such a dreckhole quelling dissenting opinions?
I think negative reviews on Steam help to achieve the goal of hitting them in their wallets. If I ever see recent reviews lower than the overall reviews then a red flag is raised immediately in my brain and I will additionally investigate why that is before buying.
The whole deal with WH3 makes me feel like they're just milking the franchise. If there were more frequent updates to fix the bugs (such as placeholder text...), and the DLC price to content ratio was reasonable, then sure, I wouldn't be pissed. But CA has crossed a line with me - 25 for Chorfs was rough, but there was a lot there, with SoC, it's just a cash grab. I know Blizzard has a plethora of warts, but at least they have been continuously updating D4 since its release. Based on the updates and comments from their dev team, things sounds like they're headed in the right direction.
They know this is the end of their gravy train with biscuit wheels, I guarantee they end up dropping WH3 and moving on within the next couple of half-assed overpriced DLC releases. No chance they put a dent in that LONG ass bugs list this game has. They'll abandon it.
Yeah warhammer 3 dlc release has been very slow. Warriors of chaos DLC, Chorfs and now shadows of change in around a year and a half? but we get another DLC for nurgle this year so I guess 3 expansions a year. I am hoping it gets much bigger and better in 2024 with Nagash etc. But they need to flood us with a bunch of FLC lords. Like 1 a month would be pretty good to fill the game out.
I'm still waiting on the chaos dwarf to go on sale on the steam, prefferable 75% :P I refuse to pay full price and to be honest I dont miss it a bit, just got Baldurs Gate 3 for full price and it is amazing, already have like 50 hours! and I'm still in the act 2 :D that is quality for a buck, and not the this warhammer shity dlc.
Tbh, I'm still getting it. Looking at the work put into making the changling battle/campaign mechanics work, 2 completely new factions getting new units, 3 LL and 2 LH, the animation and modelling, I honestly don't believe the dlc is an unfair price. The question I think becomes, even if it is not unfair price due to the effort and work put in, is it the right price to attract people? I really can't be arsed with treating this like some kind of moral crusade of "gamers unite" kind of malarky. Not that I begrudge anyone with genuine issues with the pricing beyond "corporations are evil, we gamers are victims!" I'll leave my outrage for other issues in the world, lord knows I have a limited amount I can focus on, so I wanna make sure I see them as important. But reasonable arguments can be made on even though the manpower put into this maybe worth its price, is the price still then too much for people to reasonably get this game, defeating the purpose of making the dlc in the first place. Like making the ultimate working mans chair after a long hard days work, perfect for the working class guy, but then need a well paid white collared job just to afford it. I've already been called a traitor, a shill, heck I think one person called me evil or something along those lines. But yea, this series got me through years of cancer, so tbh, as long as I can afford it, and I personally don't feel the price is asking too much like I have seen with other games, I'm gonna get it and will more than likely really enjoy it. I'm not going to be part of any crusade or greater good with this, and I honestly respect people with opinions that are not just the "us vs the rich/corps/greed/developers/etc" mentality arguments. I've seen way too many of those arise from this kerfuffle already...
If it wasn’t for the fact that this contains all of the units I as excited to see in the Game, I would not buy it. But with a mutualith, tzaangors, blue scribes, and the changing… well. I want it. Though I will say. I was expecting the scribes to be the lord and the changing to be the hero.
@@ianover6838 I have the disposable income and can make frivolous purchases, so yes, I will buy it when it releases. I will wait until the last day of the discounted price, but I will buy it.
For an example of my character on spending. I have 7 Warhammer 40k armies and 2 AoS armies. And GW is so much worse than CA. And that's saying something.
I have loved the total warhammer series, I dont expect them to make another like it for quite awhile and my desire for a nonglobal historical game is pretty nonexistent so I really hope they do not abandon it anytime soon. I play chaos but I'm not sure if I will ever even play Cathay but still preordered just to keep the money flowing. Developers seem to be absolutely clueless to anything but dollar signs. They keep pushing everything but the combined map every game release and it hurts their sales and the games interest every time, im definitely worried about them abandoning it for any reason lol
They aren't going to abandon WH3, what other flagship game would they then have? Like you said, a huge historical game isn't going to happen probably since it wouldn't sell as well. Also, Games Workshop has a huge interest now in Total Warhammer continuing to be a thing, so it's unlikely CA could easily cancel it anyway.
@@armoredchimp they only two WH IPs that would bring in anything like what Old World Fantasy did would be 30k/40k and maybe Age of Sigmar. Other than that CA isn't going to bring in the type of money that Old World has for them, as far as Games Workshop licensed IPs. And I think LotR might be too expensive for them to license.
I just refunded the game yesterday, I really want to play it but decided that I didn't want to give them the satisfaction and then bought Baldurs gate 3, a much better investment
The biggest thing that can help bring change is also how content creators are handling it. Legend is doing a great job. People like Indy, Dahv, Turin, and others should follow suit. I think you guys all severely underestimate how much CA relies on you guys to generate hype and advertising. You've been around long enough that fans would follow you to other games like BG3. Corroborating to do a blackout on the new Warhammer content could send a huge message. Understandably, ya'll rely on that content for revenue so it's risky as all hell, but I mean the game isn't gonna last forever, so maybe trying to branch out to other up and coming games may break whatever hold CA has on you guys.
we should make sure to hold publishers accountable for the pressure on the gaming industry as well, not enough light is shed on them, and often times publishers leave games out to dry
Don't. Have some discipline and integrity so this stops happening. I know it sucks when its something you really want, but it'll be worth it in the end.
Honestly, if they legitimately came out with a statement saying that this DLC was overpriced to compensate for the costs of making better re-works and just going back to making the game better and provided some general information about how much was being used to line pockets and things other than employees salaries or rent, and bettering the company in general. As long as the majority was in the improvement category and not in the lining executive pockets category, I'd be fine with this price hike. We just need some bloody transparency from not only CA, but all companies. Money is more important than ever these days and people are wising up with how to spend it.
I feel like alot of stuff went on behind the scenes and we are just complaining for the simply reason of complaining. There are people who draw the models, make lore and have to pay Games Workshop to approve their idea's and eventually product. We as customers have to pay for that.
Don't think I've heard anyone say it yet, but could be wrong: I wouldn't be surprised if we're paying extra now because Immortal Empires became Free to Play with Patch 2.4. The community made a big push to convince CA that the most popular, sandbox mode, "Main Content" of the game should not be behind a paywall of owning all 3 games, just get the extra LLs through what you own in DLC, and we won out. Then Chorfs came out, $25 dollars that was given a pass due to it being a highly anticipated race pack. Now SoC, $25 dollars for less content. It's almost as if CA said "Alright, we'll give you what you want, but you'll pay for it later."
@@ianover6838 It's a very cynical take I'll admit, and most likely isn't true, but if the business model was trying to get everyone to buy all 3 games just to play IE, and they gave that up out of "goodwill," maybe someone in CA with a suit thinks they need to recoup cost.
@@hickacious_d6175 You could be right but I think it is waaaaay more basic than anything like that. They want more money, more money makes Sega ease off and keeps shareholders happy. Problem is those groups also expect to see larger green numbers with each report so I would not be surprised if we see this getting worse, the gaming industry has become saturated with money grubbing assholes in corporate positions across the board. They don't even need to hide that anymore, they hold IPs hostage and prey on nostalgia to get the money they want. But that's all it is, bigger green numbers and larger bonuses for the leads.
I am one of those people who defended the game at launch, I truly believed it would get better. But I've gotta agree with almost everything you've said in this video. They are just taking the piss right now on so many fronts. I think the DLC is honestly just the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been very patient with the expectation that things would get better, but the game's been out for 18 months now. This kind of continual bad support is just not acceptable.
I know im going to get out and i know I'll play it enough to get value out of it... if you don't feel the same don't buy it, play it, promote it etc. Each person is responsible for thier own decisions, simple as.
$25 was fair for Chaos Dwarves that was a huge pack. For this DLC they would need to add a chicken hut, lore of hags, and a Cathay melee hero to make it fair.
I feel like this is the general picture of how the gaming scene looks like right now. This seems to be the standard for AAA studios these days, tbh, pumping out half created content, fully priced since we, the community, keep on buying their crap. Imagine these practices 20-25 years ago when real, complete games were being created.
18:42 a wild Dracir appears. The 40 Cathay peasants stacking to kill a skybark is legendary. That said: I was back then warning people about the Chaos Dwarf price. Well to be fair: Yes you get a whole race and there was *some* effort put into it. That is all true. But like i said: It was a testing ground how much they can charge for and of course i was right. So i´m actually quite happy that people are right now concerned about future pricing with at least this dlc. I didn´t get TWWH3 at release because of course you saw already all the red flags. But even since then it doesn´t seem to have improved that much? For now I don´t really feel like supporting CA. So yeah gonna stick with TWWH2 instead for a long time. Edit: I also think Larian with Baldurs Gate 3 (which i´m having a ton of fun right now) has brought some minds together that what is too much is too much in this industry and the usual bullshit. And i think that´s great.
This entire situation is really rough for everyone. Personally, I feel torn between buying the DLC because I do genuinely love total war Warhammer, but at the same time I agree that CA is pushing a boundary to a breaking point. I don’t know how many people feel the same, but I just feel like it’s a lose lose situation for everyone But CA.
Reddit is no place for healthy debate. Anyone suggesting something against the popular opinion gets downvoted to oblivion. It's not because people are bitter that they get downvoted.
"It's industry standard" is basically a dressed-up form of saying, "What we're doing is okay, because other people are doing it." Pretty sure people in my life were debunking that argument when I was in elementary school.
"If Activision jumped off a cliff would you?"
It used to be "industry standard" to hold slaves at some point in history
@kapitankapital6580 If it made activision a shit load of money, you would see the others doing it too.
Agreed, ever since we saw a $70 price tag a few months ago(I forget the game but it was a recent AAA), now we see that on more upcoming AAA games, after $60 was bad enough when it’s unfinished- not even mentioning Gold packs which used to be in the base game for $100+
From what we hear, Activision being a den of sexual abuse is industry standard, so it's really not a great thing to latch onto.
The Twisted & The Twilight will be always a peak for me. 3 Legendary lords which one was free(Yeah, I know you needed your own Wood Elves to get Drycha), free re-work, cool new units, more lord/hero types, *3 LEGENDARY HEROS* You never realize how good you had, until it was taken from you.
Nah, Ikit Claw was such a HUGE change. Fk the lords, we saw soooo many NEW UNITS and a new mechanic thats still the best one in the game... all it cost was 8 fkn $
Guys ... come on. The best content that came out for Total War Warhammer is ... Tomb Kings. No doubt about it.
@@uppermost865 Tomb Kings for me is around the level of Chaos Dwarfs, which is to say they are some of the best. But to be fair race packs are always some of the best. I really liked vampire coast too. The only one I "regret" buying is wood elves since I hate being a tree hugger
The Warden and the Paunch, with Eltharion, Grom and Imrik as FLC was one of my favorites. Tons of content, added more areas to the map, mixed up the situation in Ulthuan and Bretonnia and the Badlands…
Also whichever one had Ikit Claw, and the one that added Snikch/Malus.
Those were the days…
? All dlc used to be that, a free LL with every dlc, it wasn't with twisted and twilight
Nakai not being able to recruit kroxigors really hurt my opinion on CA. I really like Nakai’s campaign because it’s really simple to play. Get the kroxi-boys and run wild. They aren’t testing changes and they’re increasing prices. They expect people to pay more for less.
One can argue that Nakai's kroxigors being busted counts as false advertising/deliberate sale of faulty product on CA's part. CA is no doubt aware of the issue but refuses to implement a hotfix or pull the product from sale until it's fixed. Really does not set a good look for a company pulling shit like this where (if severe enough) they can be charged with fraud.
The high seas are a life indeed.
Nakai can't recruit kroxigors? What the fuck?
000000
I always recruited Kroxigors from the sacred spawnings. Don’t see what the problem is
Legend, the 'stakeholders' are doing JUST FINE. It isn't as if they are seeing poor returns now. It's just that there is a constant demand for continual, UNLIMITED growth... and therefore to squeeze ever harder on consumers.
Unlimited growth will be the death of us all
Cheese the means of production!
Well, the only real sustainable way to achieve that is to keep making more, better games.
cant wait for them to cancel future content because there is no demand it doesnt sell mentality capitalism was a mistake
@@ASHFAR578 I was thinking about that too. So we're fucked either way? Either we buy for an insanely inflated price or don't buy and risk the possibility of being 3k'ed
@@deriznohappehquite There is no way to achieve unlimited growth with limited resources and all resources are ultimately limited, so there is that.
$15 is the most I will pay for this DLC.
This is coming from someone who has all 3 games with all DLC up to this point. This will be the first DLC I will not buy on release.
Except the WH1 Dwarf and Orc one (cant remember name) I've bought all even if I don't play the factions. This one I'm skipping.
I agree, I think I've already supported enough of content from CA this is when line is crossed. Plus I'm struggling with job and finances so every penny matters to me now and it's not much left sadly. BUT, the problem is ... that CA didn't bother to fix the game and update it in time, and I'm sick of AI in WH3 it's hot garbage, going to stick with BG3 for near future.
This DLC isn't worth more than $18 after inflation when compared to similar sized TWW2 DLCs so I'm not getting it until it is at or below that point.
same here brother
same i have bought all dlc for wh2 1 and nearly every total war game. this is getting out of hand. 15 dollars would be 1199 ish for euros but still fairer than the current price spike with more content.
The other CZcamsrs talking about the news while Legend talks about the community
some people just know where the bread gets buttered tbh. a game with no community is dead, look at from the depths, ten years old and still crazy active because of its community
Shows you who really cares!
thats why he is called LEGEND ofTotalWar
Turin is ignoring the problems
Yeah but they're both not doing anything lol same result different approaches. These big content creators need to lead by example
The release of BG3 came at a perfect time. It proves that games can be released feature complete, and a complete game, no questions asked, for a 60$.
BG3 spent 3 years in early access and is disappointment to the fans of the first two games like myself-I wanted a Baldur’s Gate game, not Divinity: Original Sin 3
@@MilanVoorheesSpeak for yourself. Loads of fans of the first two games are in love with BG3 and rightfully so.
@@MilanVoorhees Speak for yourself.The peak of 870 000 player count on Steam says otherwise.
@@duongquan4986 Cool. How many do you think played the first two games? Cute try though.
@@MilanVoorhees Lol it's amazing how you're proving nothing yet sounding so confident. Best game of the entire decade
I was so damn excited for this DLC, but damn is it hard to justify buying nearly half the cost of the base game.
Exactly
That’s what blows me away about every CA dlc ever, it’s anywhere from 15%-50% of base game cost but they never have more than 5% of the content
@@michaelpetrovich5353 Like the New Lords feel experimental and would be fun if they were at least, 15 dollars instead of 25
@@burtreynolds8030 It’s annoying, I guess they justify it with Campaign Mechanics which is just annoying as I prefer tangible content like more non reskin units and lords. Like unless the Campaign Mechanics straight up warp how you would play, then I don’t really value it that much.
Paradox games are even worse and its insane how this is normalized
TotalBiscuit rolling in his grave right now with the current state of the industry
I miss that man, RIP
I like to think he'd be ignoring this and playing Baldur's Gate 3 instead.
The problem is not that it's more expensive, the problem is it's much more expensive. They also messed up a lot of things with warhammer 3, they should adress those first.
Yea but free patches doesn't bring in money. DLC does, overpriced DLC brings even more money.
But at the same time there a lot of people simply not buying WH3 or the dlcs due to the pricing AND the problems, including myself.
It's much more expensive and the units in it are kinda uninspiring additions to the rosters. These are newish factions with limited rosters and playstyles and the new units they're getting are not going to open up new playstyles or meaningfully make the existing ones better.
I'm not looking at any of those units and thinking "yeah, I'll recruit those they look like they'll change things".
Price is ok if they actually release something worth it. A few units no chance
People were complaining about the lack of dlc when the game was in an even worse state, i think people just want to have stuff to buy sometimes
“Hey should we fix these bugs?”
“No! More units! More bugs! More price!”
They pushed too much and too far. It was inevitable
they delved too deep
I think the reddit boycott if you could say is working somewhat because this dlc is the only one in recent mind that is not in the top 100 of steam. I know its only in pre order but usually when a dlc is announced for this game it shoots up pretty high in steams best selling list even during pre-order. So maybe we will see some change idk only time will tell.
its a good sign but only if it hurst them in their bottom line. This practice MUST not be more profitable then just putting a bit more effort and asking for a fairer prices. These people are absolutely soulless when it comes to the fanbase and how much money they can make. For them we are just cattle.
Judging from this and the standing of Pharaoh I'd say this is a loss of interest in Total War in general now.
charging full price for pharoah while lying about it not being a saga is just a fu to your customers.@@Sevatar_VIIIth
If the community could force Sega to make Chaos Warriors free for a week, surely it can force Sega to lower the price by 5 dollars at least
It's definitely had an effect. I've been basically a corporate stooge cheerleader for this game as well as WH2 during all of it's rough patches, of which there were a few. They crossed a line with this price increase for me though and I know I'm not the only one. Preordered every DLC as soon as they were announced previously, this will be the first one I don't get until a real sale
For me at least the problem is increasing the pricing while having a whole bunch of things still broken. If the game was in good shape I probably wouldn't have scoffed at the new price as much,
Yeah, I’ll also hold out, which sucks. I’m really interested in the Cathay stuff (love them, but feel like they’re missing something) but $25 for this is too much. I’m sad to say I gave them a pass for Chaos Dwarfs, but that was the last straw. If this means they abandon WH3 like they did 3K? Then so be it.
This is definitely the last straw given it's the same price as Chaos Dwarfs (which was already the most expensive DLC ever), but with a lot less content.
Sadly like many folks in life, a carrot alone is not enough, a stick is also deeply needed, sometimes pain is the only solution
I doubt CA will improve without a long lasting disaster which will leave a mark
But iam completely indiffrent to whether TWW3 eventually become a success in 2030 or left in the dumpster
Yeah I've not bought the Chorf DLC and I have no intention to buy this one until they come way down in price.
@@andrewfernie3528the chorf is worth it because it's a really unique and cool faction this dlc is a lord pack not a faction
Chaos Dwarfs was just barely worth the price increase imo, and I also defended it. All of the content was great, there were new music tracks, and most importantly innovative new mechanics. Then they get the bright idea to release a DLC at the same price that would have cost half as much during WH2? I don't get it. Nobody should support this, they really stepped over a line here
The more companies like this tighten their grip over the fanbase, the more their profits will slip through their fingers.
We’ve been saying this for over a decade now. Yet they are so massive that they won’t die, they’ll just wither and buy up more or merge. This has been playing out in almost all industries for over a century.
Even if something comes up to compete they’ll use all their immense resources to drown em out, buy em up or straight up steal from them
They can charge that much because those that control the resources decided that they can
Except it's not remotely true.
Diablo 4 sold 3.5x the copies on Launch week that D3 sold. Even with Blizzards abysmal reputation and performance.
The masses are gunna keep buying year after year, and the sales trends show that. In fact, many companies are seeing record profits.
It's a pipe dream that the gouging will stop. For every 1 person who will boycott and move on, theres 30 who will pay even more.
Like legend says, they don't care about unit sales. They care about revenue, and business is booming.
@@HauntingSpectre I don't have much hope, but the big difference is Diablo is set up for microtransactions, not flat DLCs. A few idiot whales can keep that game going forever. Even the most braindead of consoomer can only buy as many Warhammer DLCs that were made, and they can only buy them once.
@@TaRAAASHBAGS It's not about whether or not it's set up for Microtransactions. Its simply about the unit sale and price increase.
Even with out the MTX set up, Diablo 4 out sold D3, and thus made more money.
The MTX is just bonus cash, and companies that don't use that, can still rely on broken price schemes knowing gamers will still buy the product.
Blizzard being a perfect example, because literal Millions have stopped buying Blizzard games due to how shit they've become, but the company can still manage to make record sales, because of A: People who don't care and consume mindlessly, and B: new blood entering the market who is unaware or equally does not care.
CA will most likely be no different, because there will still be more revenue made despite the extreme pricing, and so they don't care about who didn't buy the game, as long as the few who did, paid more money than those who didn't.
Those same idiot whales will just buy every warhammer DLC, regardless of price. The increase doesn't bother them. So CA will still make more money, so long as the price is high enough.
Normies don't care about this shit, you think Jerry over there with his 3 kids and full-time job is gonna worry about CA drama? No dude, most people are like Jerry lol
Thank god studios like Larian exist... They keep proving it's viable to make a high value game without abusing your fans economically...
You are not mistaking. They increased the older DLC's prices across the board. Here in my country Tomb kings and Vampire Coast were 25 or 15 bucks. Now is 110 or 100 like chaos dwarfs. It was a MASSIVE increase in price. Fortunally I got them before that. But even so it's sad that new players need to pay the newer price to get it.
Think that's a local pricing thing. Price has remain unchanged, where I live, for dlc from WH2.
same@@Zomgnomnom1
I find it very hard to believe they have increased the price for existing DLC by 400%. Wtf you on about? Nothing has changed on official stores
I think he is from Brazil just as I am. Unfortunately, I think there have been a new decree about taxes on games. On top of that, we have a not so stable currency against the US dollar which should add to the mess (although as a minor piece of it). To end the whole storm, I think steam/CA/don’t know who did adjust the prices. I can’t exactly remember when, but they had it adjusted to the new tax/currency rates almost all at once which did pump the prices of mostly all games. Some went up 100%, other a little bit less. To end my huge text, I’m quite sure he got those DLC during steam sale, I did pay R$25,00 (twenty five Brazilian Reais) on it back then, now they’re tagged as R$100,00 (when not on sale).
I might as well be wrong about everything, but that’s what I think.
I checked my old receipts and hunter and the beast dlc was 8.09 USD with a 10% discount for buying it early on steam so it would have cost 8.99 USD. Now it is listed at 9.99 USD.@@Zomgnomnom1
Always a pleasure to see these videos where Legend make an objective summary and discussion of a situation for the betterment of the Total War community. Thanks for helping the community so much Legend!
When the game first came out there were concerns that it wasn't going to be an accurate adaptation of Warhammer Fantasy. Glad to see CA has stepped up and gone that extra mile to faithfully implement the features of the tabletop version to the digital landscape.
I think milkandcookiesTW term "greedflation" is spot on when it comes to describing everything that's happening, just not related to this DLC but in general.
Greedflation is one of the worst takes I've seen. If it was, then companies would be posting the highest net income during the 2021-2022 when inflation was highest (they didn't, aside from a few exceptions mostly in the tech sector). You can take Walmart for example where their cost of goods sold and SG&A expenses outpaced their sales growth. Which is why I view Chaos Dwarfs DLC price hike to be fine. From 2016-2023 inflation compounded monthly would be around 30%. Where $25 for Chaos Dwarfs is right there. Now I expected CA to do the same for this DLC, so this DLC should be around $13-15. But I guess they're seeing what they can get away with. And again, that's their prerogative, and its also your choice to buy or not.
@@marsryo6569 This is a really good take.
@@marsryo6569that doesn’t quite add up. Inflation is high, yes, but is also compounded by companies setting record breaking profits. It’s not going to be a 1 to 1 with inflation at the highest level = the highest level of profit. It’s just , inflation is a percentage and it’s being exacerbated by greedflation to go even higher. I think everyone can agree massive corporations raking us over the coals isn’t good for anyone.
@@MrSkeltal268 Where is your source of record breaking profits? I am a certified financial planner and accountant. Looking at the income statements and balance sheets of fortune 500 companies along with other private ventures is my job. People forget that inflation also affects companies. Again with Walmart, they've posted their 2023 income statements along with 2022, 2021 and the net income is worse than 2019. All this information is public, see for yourself. This is the same with most other companies in merchandising and industrial sector. Tech companies books and assets are different, but they still took a hit. While I dont think CA is doing a smart business decision with $25 for this lord pack, "Greedflation" is a lazy way to explain inflation.
@@marsryo6569 "I'm a certified financial planer and accountant"
And somewhat ignorant of how to convince people online.
Giving "qualifications" online is the first recourse of anyone that is full of shit because it cannot be proven. As you said, all the information is public.
Tldr; people are less likely to believe you if you make un-proven claims. You are better off justs making your point. Especially if you have data or references to back it up.
Always a pleasure when I see a new LegendofTotalWar video
a pleasure indeed.
"Review bombing", although it was very much justified, definitely worked for War Thunder. WT community also went through a similar poop storm recently, and WT devs completely changed course because of that.
I've never changed a review until now, they've caused me to change my steam review to negative. I really hope this backlash has some effect because the price increase is just obscene.
Yes but Warthunder is a very different concept. They NEED good reviews because this game lives from people constantly beeing online playing their game, buying premium accounts and so on. Its much more of a live service game.
Total War on the other hand is largely a singleplayer game. If one has bad reviews than they just stop support for it and they move on to another game release next year.
review bombing lost most of its meaning, now people use it every time more than 1 person gives a negative review. actual review bombing happens very, very rarely
@@manfredthegreat Agree. Also both games have a finite "lore". Warhammer fantasy is limited, as is the number of vehicles that Gaijin can implement in War Thunder. But the are different games. Both need to retain their players and gain new ones to sell their DLCs.
If you love warhammer and want to preserve its image and integrity, you gotta take a stand and show them what you aren’t willing to accept, if you just don’t buy the new stuff they’ll notice lol
I'm more disappointed by the content thats offered than the price asked. A few units look cool but overall, its a tad underwhelming after how amazing Forge of the Chaos Dwarfs was.
The increase in price is just the cherry on top in regards to my decision to not by the DLC.
With what you said about Industry Standard - BG3 turned up at the perfect time. I saw a really good thought the other day along the lines of "good is relative to the moment, a mediocre game made with love today will raise hell", and I think its no surprise that a game (that honestly might not deserve to be the highest rated pc game of all time) which has timely patches, polish and genuine care put into is now considered the best game of all time by people who are turning around and go "why are we ok getting far less from our game?"
I think it's important to note that CA made conscious effort to extract themselves from Reddit in the lead up to TW:WH3. Now I think that the reason is that they knew there would be a lot of issues with the release, and with the coming DLC, so they knew they couldn't have someone like Grace getting beat up in the court of public opinion. One of the best things in TW:WH2 was Grace's constant updates and all the memes around her and the great communication she had with the community. Why else would CA give that up?
Lots of companies are doing this, they are tired of being called out for their issues on Reddit so they decide to simply not go there at all. This is why having a public square like Reddit is important, for all its downsides, at least it is a place that people can have an open and honest discussion.
it was less a conscious effort and more that they lost and did not replace their CM and they rotated through several CM's until here we are now.
"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it" - Publilius Syrus
not when its a Supplier's market. but somehow retards are still paying for $600 DLC or some shit even tho gaming industry is clearly a Buyer's Market situation
I've uninstalled TWW3. Not playing it until they make changes. Good on ya Legend for focusing on this issue in this manner. You are a legend!
It’s better to keep playing without buying to show people are interested but unwilling to shill for overpriced content. If you stop playing they will just stop making any content.
This isn’t accomplishing anything lol
You can either buy this and chorfs (or whatever the next dlc with even less content will be) for 50 bucks, OR you buy Baldurs Gate 3, a game which respects their playerbase.
BG3 is a completely different genre. I dont know why you bring that up here. Yes BG3 might be super. But i am not a fan of the genre and i will not buy it. Neither will i buy overpriced dlcs. I have not bought Chaos dwarfs nor will i do this one. On a 50-75% sale yes.
@@michaelgibtsnet8195 It's a comparison of value. BG3 is insanely good for a fair price.
its not about the genre, its the thought process of spending your money on a company that respects the players time. insert another game from a genre you like instead of BG3 and don't be so simple minded lol @@michaelgibtsnet8195
@michaelgibtsnet8195 WOOOOSH. You missed the entire point of the comment. Congrats, you have reading comprehension of a 5 year old. 😂😂
@@michaelgibtsnet8195 this is not a recommandation, he is pointing out the fact that you can buy a whole game for the price of 6 legendary lords
I think if they add like two more lords, maybe chaos or legacy factions, then maybe folks wouldn’t get too miffed
But three lords and a paid legendary hero isn’t enough
^^^ Stockholm Syndrome.
@@ngraderbut he's right, if they want to ask for 25 bucks or more then they should justify it with enough content, so at least it's worth it. That being said, I do not believe any DLC without new race is worth it. It's not like it completly overhauls the experience... it just gives you new lord to start with and some new units and mechanics at best.
$25 is just too much for dlc that isn't delivering vast amounts of content. We as consumers never benefitted and saved money from the near death of people buying physical copies (companies save on not needing to physically make copies), yet they want to justify a LARGE hike in price when not even delivering large unprecedented content.
I finally gave my review on WH3. Since the price increased, the work to fix game and bugs stopped, I had to honestly shoot a negative one. Openly and without hate. I won't be buying new DLC. Just sticking to my guns until I see a huge discount to buy it. This is a game I will return to, especially with co-op. But I will just move on. Increase price? Sure, if you do put similar work behind it. So far they don't. So I will put nice middle finger towards them.
Maybe there are some races that are fun to play on the new map but I haven't found them.
I changed my review. Again. From no to yes to no. Guess I won't be changing it for the fourth time.
@@liskacek1 I put 340 hours into it as of now. Compared to WH2 it's not even one fourth of my playing hours. Not even trying to compare to Legend, but I did enjoy the game when I had time. I knew this would finally happen, so I didn't send my review until now..
I did the same thing last week. Review bomb the game until this shit stops
It pained me to do it but I also switched my reviews, and I won’t buy this dlc. Even on 90% sale. Just so they can look back at this as a thing never to do again.
The vast majority of inflation is not caused by a cost increase. It is a wave of "if they can raise the price and get away with it we'll do it to" kind of deal. Economics are based on sociology first and maths last.
inflation is caused by corporate profits. there is data and everything....
Let's be real they are ABUSING, US. You're right, it's not OUR problem they have to try so hard to meet whatever goal they have. If they would make a BETTER product, it would be EASIER for them to hit said Goal. It sounds like "whatever" goal they have, they're being led horribly.
By only using Stellaris, hes ignoring the broken DLC for EU4. There is a naval and trade DLC that only gets you a button to press. The rest of the dlc was erased with a newer dlc, but you cant access half of the content from the second dlc without owning the first one that was erased, as the first one is the only way you get access to the button.
Baldurs Gate 3 is my Escape to RPG from this
Ngl I haven’t thought about sailing under the skull and bones flag with total war since college but I’m at that point again
Im just tired of funding gluttony and not passion. So much passion and it keeps being trampled, it breaks my heart
23:28 yes they did raise the price at I believe between 2018 and 2020 which we ended up with Rome 2 going from 50€ back to 60€. So Rome 2 a 10 year old game did not get a price decrease but a price increase.
Truth be told Legend, I haven’t watched your content since before the launch of TWW3. This new (to me) measured and calm Legend is great!
I would love if CA would start to cooperate with community more, for instance, there is that reloading animation mod, some authors of mods even write that CA can implement their work for free.
They said campaign map edits are not possible due to technology used (more like they dont want us to do it), and modders now found a way and instatly created mod that fills blank spots of the campaign map with decent lore intepretation and placeholder factions...
The one cathartic thing is that their own greed is hampering them from making even more money. Yes they made a bit more in the short term, but right now consumer friendly practices are so rare in the gaming industry, that a company that actually treats their customers well is basically guaranteed to have an incredible golden goose on their next decent game. Look at baldurs gate 3. Even my dad bought it without me even mentioning it to him, just because he’d heard such good things.
Yes it’s a great game, but they are successful also because they fostered a loyal and enthusiastic fan base who trust them to give them lots of quality content without loot boxes and micro-transactions, etc. Because of this, these loyal fans spread like a virulent nurglish plague, as does the interest for the game. Upon release, even after years of early access (you’d think enthusiasm would’ve basically died by now), it gets universal acclaim and hits the top of steam sales. They’ve also basically guaranteed to have a large degree of success with their next game as well, due only to this.
People are slavering for good will from CA. They are frankly being quite stupid not capitalizing on it. I don’t even mean morally. Just from a business perspective. There’s a gold mine under them and they’d rather piss it all away for a few bucks right now, instead of cultivating a loyal and enthusiastic audience.
tldr: basically CA is razing Altdorf for 1k instead of colonizing it and making 2.5k per turn.
Sadly this kind of short-sightedness is strongly encouraged by modern corporate culture.
The executives that ultimately decide what the company does usually have their pay and bonuses tied to quarterly or yerly earnings of the company, and as a result they only care about the bottom line of the current year or quarter. This leads them to make decisions that are stupid or even catstrophical for the company in the long term but provide a short term boost to its earnings; razing your capital for a bunch of cash right now while crippling your long term earnings, as you said
The thing is, this isn't actually stupid from the point of view of the executives. They get their bonuses today even if their actions cause the company to go bankrupt tomorrow, after which they move to another company and repeat the cycle. It's bd for the company, bad for the customers, bad for the employees, but good for the people calling the shots, and that is why they keep doing it
@@exantiuse497 So how do we give the people who actually care more power to make the right decisions for the company? How do we incentivize policies that are good for the company, dare I say even, good for the consumer?
Funnily enough this is basically defining centre left vs centre right politics on economics lol.
A great explanation though and completely agree.
Yeah the old DLCs had their price increased at least twice. It was pretty subtle. You can see the price history of all Steam products in their info page.
I just want the AI to be faction specific and improved beyond big line go smash
Absolutely. It's stuff like that where it really sucks that we have an uncreative, dispassionate company using an ancient engine so it's hard to tell whether a change like that is even possible or is just something ca can't be bothered to do
@@card4933 I also think at this point re doing the ai for each faction (for faction specific ai) would take them so long and require so many resources that it will never happen and if it ever does it will be modders that do it not CA
@@Frostile yeah it's really too bad ca has fallen into the business practice of prioritizing new features and projects while seemingly viewing updating and maintaining older mechanics as almost beneath them. Make you wonder what all that "expansion" at ca legend talked about is up to over there if theyre barely making headway into the new stuff nowadays
the ai has been horrible for 20 years. It aint gonna happen.
You're not crazy, older titles like WH1 released at $40, now costs $70-80 regular price for a digital product
WH1 released at $60. Let's not make up stories, the truth of what CA is doing is fucked enough.
They always cost 60 at lunch
proof that WH1 released at 40$?
It launched at 60€ and its base price has always been 60€, not sure where you’re getting 40$ or even the 70-80$ from, that’s just wrong
you can check steamdbs price history, while i do also feel like the price increased it clearly shows it didnt.
My Azazel meme in Legends video! He even comments on it!!! (fanboy-mode off😂).
Thanks to the person who uploaded it on Reddit. (I only use Discord, because I thought of Reddit beeing to toxic) Very glad to see that people are able to have respectful discussions over there.
This DLC I simply wont buy, even on sale. Boycott the dlc or we will get ONLY 25 dollar lord packs with mediocre content followed by 50 dollar Race pack, like Negash, or any others that we may want.
Only after a 50%+ discount. Just like the chorfs.
Did I just see you at soteks vid
@@ho8ojoe8 Yes, lol Im subbed to both and watch a ton of WH content, I am a bit of a Warhammer super fan, I bought every DLC before... and now I stand with the side of community that thinks this is unacceptable.
@@WrathOfImperium good on you, I dont have the will to resist since kislev is my favourite tw campaign
You will get that anyway. I support you in your boycott but you need to realize that you're only one person and most people don't care enough/at all.
At this point, probably the only studio I'd consider pre-ordering from is Larian, because they’ve proven with BG3 that they’re actually willing to make a proper game when given the chance. CA could learn a thing or two from them.
I like how legend is able to gleam good info from memes and small posts that would otherwise be glossed over
It's an interesting discussion about value when discussing Aekold versus free legendary lords. I would argue that some of the free legendary lords have such a shallow level of mechanics that I would rather have Ulrika and Aekold as heroes than another wasted lord like Tretch.
objectively its worse since a lord is far more content then a hero
but subjectively it depends on the person like ive had way more fun with imrik and alith anar then most lords ive payed for but i like high elfs so i don't even need them to be particularly good tor me to like tho does help both of them have good mechanics
Tretch is probably the only Lord though. Other FLC LLs were pretty good (Imrik, Wurrzag, Lokhir,
The one thing that everyone forgets to adress is the map. Where will you put all these lords? There would simply be no place on the map to put them. Where would you put Harald? Ulrika? Aekold? The map is a battle royale right now. Nehekara is a brawl between Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Skarbrand, French, Lizardmen, High Elves, The empire, Tzeench and Vampires. Same situation with the empire where Franz and Gelt have to worry about Festus, Drycha, Norsca, Be'lakor, Azhag,Beastmen and later in the campaign Kholek Archaon and with the realese of this DLC The Changeling. In Naggarond Malekith has to worry about Khatep, Sisters, Valkia and Grombrindal. In all of my IE campaigns Skarsnik kills Thorgrim by turn 7 while claiming Eight Peaks at 10. I just can't see FLC LLs as a thing now without making the whole game Lustria Bowl.
Drycha, Lokhir, Alith Anar, Imrik, Rakarth there's a lot of good and varied flc lords. Tretch is uniquely bad and even then they updated him in WH3 to be ever so slightly less worthless to the point he's essentially the better clan moulder now.
@@sauronplugawy3866 you do realize were getting 3 lords in pact instead 2 and 1 being free its literally the same amount of lords added but were getting a hero for free instead. i don't understand what your even arguing about since the maps still gona get flooded with lords like we already have 6 more confirmed after this dlc the maps gona be flooded regardless we just have to pay for more of them now
you championing this cause been very nice for the sake of information and to be able to stand behind and support you. Thank you for your work and keep it up!
CA has gone to the Paradox school of DLCing
They have, except, most paradox DLC have significantly more dev time investment, or are more significant updates than what CA puts out. Not saying that justifies the DLC pricing necessarily, however many of the Paradox DLC are just significantly more worth the price for what they offer compared to this kind of pricing gimmick.
I just checked, at least in Euros the prices for old DLCs are still the same as they have always been. So 9€ for game 1, 10€ for game 2 lord packs (which I actually remembered it to be 9, but I might be wrong here), 19€ for race packs (with the exception of pre-order DLCs and game 3 DLCs)
So at the very least they're not upping the price of old DLCs. They haven't crossed that line yet.
I was happy to pay 25€ for an Anno 1800 Season pass which included 3 new dlcs and a lot of content but 25€ only 3 lords 11 units including characters feels way too expensive. Especially with all the bugs in the game that are not getting addressed.
Also was happy to pay 25£ for anno season pass because the developers actually earnt my money
This is why I support smaller developers that genuinely show that they care about their community, 100% I understand you can't make everyone happy with every patch/DLC but it's pretty obvious when the vast majority of a community shifts in mentality and feelings. That speaks for itself that we feel overlooked and disrespected as a consumer. When a company stops seeing a person as their customer they absolutely lose brand trust and historical support.
Yeah same, for me the best example is Phasmophobia
If Paradox can ever figure out how to introduce real tactical battle simulation like old school TW, it’s over for CA imo.
Think so too. Also Pharaoh is not received well (although perhaps things will change ones the game is released).
But if Paradox can make a "Medieval- type" game. And they learn to make real tactical battle, they could really hurt CA big times
not happening, their newest games couldn't even improve upon previous releases
“Legend of total war here, and today we have a saving your company campaign”
chaos dwarfs was the first dlc i didn't buy ever since i got into total war warhammer some years ago, and it looks like the trend will continue. i was never interested in chorfs and i'm very much interested in kislev (other two look cool too), but i guess i'll just play bg3 until there's some steam sale. i know total war community is not really a target of bg3, but i like the game just fine and i really want larian to succeed beyond any expectations - maybe that way other companies see that there's actually money in releasing good product without million bugs and then actually communicating with fanbase. you're right about the execs seeing where money is, so supporting fair game companies hopefully would make producing good games a good and obvious decision again.
I did not know what Hyena's was. I just looked at the trailer and now I want to go back to not knowing what it is.
Thanks for being a reasoned voice for the Total War community Legend. I have all 3 games and have pre-ordered pretty much all the DLC up to this point. But no more.
Thanks for participating in telling CA to fuck off, i did the same but stopped at the Chaos Dwarf DLC. We need to take some power back in this industry.
@@khorneflakes2175 gamers need to start towing the line. Activision/Blizzard has been getting away with BS. I've made exceptions for Warhammer because it's my lifetime love, but you're right, it has to stop.
Re: inflation. Profits literally are why inflation is happening. They are causing inflation. They are. They're the reason. High profits are the reason for high prices, always has been, always will be.
My biggest worry this that the loss in sales will have the suits saying that they should not have any more DLCs to TWW3.
What's the point of continuation for this game in this state? Does it make a difference what unit model you have to rush capture points in sieges? The game needs a proper overhaul or it can burn in hell.
They need better accountants then to step up and tell them the lack of sales is due to a too high price point. Like trying to sell a Camry for the price of a Lexus and then freaking out when they don't sell. Just lower the price a bit, sales will go back up with more than enough margin for the work the put into the content.
Won’t happen. They don’t have any other games that make nearly as much money. That said I would rather have a quick death for this game then a long drawn out which is happening right now
@@giokun100 no, we don't need an ultimatum, no reason for it to be an all or nothing choice, don't be daft
I have another issue alongside the price of the DLC. When lord packs have been released in the past, they've normally done some significant changes to existing races (look at the Beastmen or Wood Elf overhauls as examples). There's quite a few races that really feel like they could use some significant updates/changes to their mechanics and all 3 races that are in this DLC are good examples of that, and they also said in their roadmap that update 4.0 would be including race updates. The "race update" that they've talked about for Tzeentch is so minor and inconsequential compared to changes they've made alongside DLC in the past and unless they make some significant changes to Kislev or Cathay, I'd consider this update to be rather pathetic compared to most WH2 updates. In addition to that, there's so many bugs and issues present in the game that still haven't been addressed. Though I'll admit I think the content in the DLC looks great, it feels like CA only cares about the profit and no longer cares about the product. All the aspects of the game that won't make an instant profit (updates and bug fixing) seem to be getting neglected.
I really appreciate your videos! The gaming community is most certainly in need of more channels like yours. The ability to create a medium between gamers and the corporate side of things is extremely important. You do an amazing job giving us crucial information while at the same time explaining the situation from both sides all while staying cool, calm, and collected. Thanks so much and please keep it up!!
i think cheeseburgers go well with fries
Stunning and brave, I've now built my personality around this sentiment
The late great TotalBuscuit made it his life’s journey to get people to stop preordering. I’m happy you have taken up the mantle
I look at it this way. I bought baldur's gate for 70$ and I have over 150 hours so far and I am really enjoying it. If this DLC costs 25$ and is a third of the price of baldur's gate 3 I should get 1/3 of the value of baldur's gate 3 out of it. Which the value of this pack at most to me is a couple camgians at around 20ish hours 5 if I dont enjoy the lord. The new mechanics and time is not worth the price for me. Maybe at 7$ it would be m. I hold every new game and dlc to my new standard which is baldur's gate 3, elden ring, and factorio. What is the value I am paying against these games which I have many hours in and fun in. To me it is definitely not worth it.
This is exactly why senior devs have been complaining about BG openly since it leads to this kind of intuitive cost benefit analysis.
If a game that long and content rich can be 70$, then we expect at least half that at half the price, etc.
No offence, man, but this kind of thinking is stupid.
I won't buy the Dlc either, but still.
Baldur's gates are just too big and high-budget to be comparable in that regard. Same with Elden Ring. It's just that kind of games, which give potentially hundreds of hours of content for players, not everyone should give you the same amount.
I agree with CA overpricing their products and this Dlc specifically (and some past stuff, wtf, it should become cheaper, not the other way!), especially since the quality of it only dropping below, but you just can't expect every game to give you the amount of content like Baldur's gates and Elden ring...
@@legionerer Which is where he mentions Factorio. You can also add in say, Rimworld, games which easily offer 1000's of hours of content, and in the case of Rimworld, have amazing DLC that add incredible value and replayability to the game, which WH3 just cannot compare with at all, for a much lower price.
Even if those games are not your cup of tea, it is reasonable to expect games to offer a certain value and enjoyment for the money spend, and this DLC just doesn't hold up at all.
Even compared to vanilla wh3, which you could get a significant amount of hours (People get hundreds of hours out of it), compared to this DLC which is almost half the price and doesn't offer even 1/10th the content or replay value, and is build on an already existing engine so the amount of work required to produce the content is also insignificant compared to the vanilla game by a huge margin, so the price is completely unjustified on every front.
@@luka188 i think you misunderstood me. I never defended WH3 and especially it's Dlc. This game was mostly a dissapointment in terms of... A lot of stuff, pretty sure you now yourself.
My only point was that comparing everything to BG 3 and Elden ring will be a mistake.
And speaking about Factorio, I've never mentioned it because I've never played, but I've heard a lot of good stuff about it.
I really like the tone of your latest videos! Very community centered, well dosed criticism. I kinda stopped following when i felt you werent having fun anymore, but now you are back on my watchlist. Good job man :)
@10:10 Maybe there's not enough crossover in the playerbase, or maybe it's simply been forgotten but I think it's worth taking into consideration what Paradox did a few years ago.
CKII and EUIV both had about 15 full DLC, as well as cosmetics, ebooks and soundtracks. For veterans that had been playing the game since Day 1 this wasn't a problem because it was $10 here and $15 there over the course of years. New players that had been seeing the memes for years and wanted to see what all the fuss was about, however, were obliged to pay several hundred dollars "all at once" for a "complete game".
If any of this sounds familiar, it's because WH3 now has 20 DLC, for a total of $AU375, and new players are asking the same questions.
The standard response given by members of the CKII community to new players asking about all the DLC was to buy them when Steam had a sale. It wasn't just newbies, either. New DLC were met by veteran players with "I'll wait for a Steam sale". Whatever the truth, there was very strong evidence within the community itself that many, if not most, players were waiting for Steam sales before buying DLC (for a game they likely bought on sale in the first place).
How did Paradox fix this problem? Easy. They released a new DLC with an inflated price and then, just before a Steam sale, Paradox increased the price of all their DLC by almost double. It used to cost around $AU300 for the base game and all DLC. Now it costs $AU450 for the DLC alone... which nobody is paying because they're all buying it on sale.
Ask yourself how many new WH3 players are paying full price for DLC, and notice how this minor DLC is the same price a major DLC. Also take into consideration how many people will (usually) pre-order for the 10% discount. They haven't increased the price of their old DLC (yet) but if these are the new 'standard' prices, then it may not be far off.
I hate to say it almost as much as I hate to experience it but when most of your sales are coming during 50% discounts and Steam is taking a 30% cut of the profits, stuff like this has to happen.
This DLC will be the first one I haven't pre-ordered, the day before release for the discount, since I got a new PC and could upgrade from WH1 to WH2. I will be waiting for a 50% off Steam sale to buy it at the price it should be. To be perfectly honest, though, I've played more BG3 in the last couple of weeks than I have WH3 in the last few months. If it wasn't for that, I would probably have ended up just angrily getting a 10% discount on the extortionate price.
This is why we have so many people selling baldurs gate 3 for just being a good game with content
TWW3 has a 51% rating among recent Steam reviews.
CA is definitely not hurting. They're making millions. The cost for supporting WH3 is not increasing either, in fact its probably decreasing considering they seem to be expanding their teams for other games. I heard an argument that they are trying to offset the expected losses from hyaenas and pharaoh by squeezing the money out of WH3 which seems like a possible explanation. Either way this is 1000% CA trying to squeeze money out of the franchise and the price increase is in no way a response to inflation or them losing money.
the total war subreddit deserves no applause at all. They are constantly attacking anyone with any opinion that dissents from the blessed boycott, you will be downvoted for expressing *anything* but support for boycotting the DLC. Any post about not misdirecting your rage at SoC against other targets like employees or other DLC are immediately downvoted and hidden. Just because the reddit is currently promoting the thing you agree with doesn't mean its behavior deserves praise.
I don't support what CA is doing but I will take their side on this issue just to spite the narrowminded boycotters.
God, I hate redd*t.
Isnt that the same reddit who spearheaded the 3K mod censorship because some PR person threatened to pull her pointless visits?
Should we really be surprised about such a dreckhole quelling dissenting opinions?
I like you talking on the pre-order gimmick, totalbiscuit was the only critic of it in the online sphere.
I think negative reviews on Steam help to achieve the goal of hitting them in their wallets. If I ever see recent reviews lower than the overall reviews then a red flag is raised immediately in my brain and I will additionally investigate why that is before buying.
The whole deal with WH3 makes me feel like they're just milking the franchise. If there were more frequent updates to fix the bugs (such as placeholder text...), and the DLC price to content ratio was reasonable, then sure, I wouldn't be pissed. But CA has crossed a line with me - 25 for Chorfs was rough, but there was a lot there, with SoC, it's just a cash grab. I know Blizzard has a plethora of warts, but at least they have been continuously updating D4 since its release. Based on the updates and comments from their dev team, things sounds like they're headed in the right direction.
They know this is the end of their gravy train with biscuit wheels, I guarantee they end up dropping WH3 and moving on within the next couple of half-assed overpriced DLC releases.
No chance they put a dent in that LONG ass bugs list this game has. They'll abandon it.
Yeah warhammer 3 dlc release has been very slow. Warriors of chaos DLC, Chorfs and now shadows of change in around a year and a half? but we get another DLC for nurgle this year so I guess 3 expansions a year. I am hoping it gets much bigger and better in 2024 with Nagash etc. But they need to flood us with a bunch of FLC lords. Like 1 a month would be pretty good to fill the game out.
Try this people. If you don't like the price, don't buy.
You can apply this on many things too.
I'm still waiting on the chaos dwarf to go on sale on the steam, prefferable 75% :P I refuse to pay full price and to be honest I dont miss it a bit, just got Baldurs Gate 3 for full price and it is amazing, already have like 50 hours! and I'm still in the act 2 :D that is quality for a buck, and not the this warhammer shity dlc.
Tbh, I'm still getting it. Looking at the work put into making the changling battle/campaign mechanics work, 2 completely new factions getting new units, 3 LL and 2 LH, the animation and modelling, I honestly don't believe the dlc is an unfair price.
The question I think becomes, even if it is not unfair price due to the effort and work put in, is it the right price to attract people?
I really can't be arsed with treating this like some kind of moral crusade of "gamers unite" kind of malarky. Not that I begrudge anyone with genuine issues with the pricing beyond "corporations are evil, we gamers are victims!"
I'll leave my outrage for other issues in the world, lord knows I have a limited amount I can focus on, so I wanna make sure I see them as important. But reasonable arguments can be made on even though the manpower put into this maybe worth its price, is the price still then too much for people to reasonably get this game, defeating the purpose of making the dlc in the first place.
Like making the ultimate working mans chair after a long hard days work, perfect for the working class guy, but then need a well paid white collared job just to afford it.
I've already been called a traitor, a shill, heck I think one person called me evil or something along those lines.
But yea, this series got me through years of cancer, so tbh, as long as I can afford it, and I personally don't feel the price is asking too much like I have seen with other games, I'm gonna get it and will more than likely really enjoy it.
I'm not going to be part of any crusade or greater good with this, and I honestly respect people with opinions that are not just the "us vs the rich/corps/greed/developers/etc" mentality arguments. I've seen way too many of those arise from this kerfuffle already...
If it wasn’t for the fact that this contains all of the units I as excited to see in the Game, I would not buy it. But with a mutualith, tzaangors, blue scribes, and the changing… well. I want it. Though I will say. I was expecting the scribes to be the lord and the changing to be the hero.
i was mostly excited for the kislev stuff but there's no way i can justify it when i almost never play cathay and tzeench
So you gave in?
@@ianover6838 I have the disposable income and can make frivolous purchases, so yes, I will buy it when it releases. I will wait until the last day of the discounted price, but I will buy it.
For an example of my character on spending. I have 7 Warhammer 40k armies and 2 AoS armies. And GW is so much worse than CA. And that's saying something.
Good job being the right guy, most people who post content are bought out devs you speak your mind. That's why the community likes you.
I have loved the total warhammer series, I dont expect them to make another like it for quite awhile and my desire for a nonglobal historical game is pretty nonexistent so I really hope they do not abandon it anytime soon. I play chaos but I'm not sure if I will ever even play Cathay but still preordered just to keep the money flowing. Developers seem to be absolutely clueless to anything but dollar signs. They keep pushing everything but the combined map every game release and it hurts their sales and the games interest every time, im definitely worried about them abandoning it for any reason lol
The only TW game I'll buy excited for after the end of WH will only be a Total War Warhammer 30k/40k.
They aren't going to abandon WH3, what other flagship game would they then have? Like you said, a huge historical game isn't going to happen probably since it wouldn't sell as well. Also, Games Workshop has a huge interest now in Total Warhammer continuing to be a thing, so it's unlikely CA could easily cancel it anyway.
@@armoredchimp they only two WH IPs that would bring in anything like what Old World Fantasy did would be 30k/40k and maybe Age of Sigmar. Other than that CA isn't going to bring in the type of money that Old World has for them, as far as Games Workshop licensed IPs. And I think LotR might be too expensive for them to license.
I just refunded the game yesterday, I really want to play it but decided that I didn't want to give them the satisfaction and then bought Baldurs gate 3, a much better investment
can even legend save this disaster button
he can't rn but we need a hero with a vision to manage the game projects
The biggest thing that can help bring change is also how content creators are handling it. Legend is doing a great job. People like Indy, Dahv, Turin, and others should follow suit. I think you guys all severely underestimate how much CA relies on you guys to generate hype and advertising. You've been around long enough that fans would follow you to other games like BG3. Corroborating to do a blackout on the new Warhammer content could send a huge message. Understandably, ya'll rely on that content for revenue so it's risky as all hell, but I mean the game isn't gonna last forever, so maybe trying to branch out to other up and coming games may break whatever hold CA has on you guys.
"Guys guys guys, calm down. You can easily explain the increase in DLC's pricing because of the cost of eggs...." - CA / other modern corporations.
we should make sure to hold publishers accountable for the pressure on the gaming industry as well, not enough light is shed on them, and often times publishers leave games out to dry
I'll end up buying it...
Don't. Have some discipline and integrity so this stops happening. I know it sucks when its something you really want, but it'll be worth it in the end.
We are fiends!
I'm gonna pull out a throwback to the Gamestop situation as a metaphor to this community, HOLD!!
This is Legend of Total War here, and today we've got a Saving your PR Campaign here.
Honestly, if they legitimately came out with a statement saying that this DLC was overpriced to compensate for the costs of making better re-works and just going back to making the game better and provided some general information about how much was being used to line pockets and things other than employees salaries or rent, and bettering the company in general. As long as the majority was in the improvement category and not in the lining executive pockets category, I'd be fine with this price hike. We just need some bloody transparency from not only CA, but all companies. Money is more important than ever these days and people are wising up with how to spend it.
I feel like alot of stuff went on behind the scenes and we are just complaining for the simply reason of complaining.
There are people who draw the models, make lore and have to pay Games Workshop to approve their idea's and eventually product. We as customers have to pay for that.
Don't think I've heard anyone say it yet, but could be wrong: I wouldn't be surprised if we're paying extra now because Immortal Empires became Free to Play with Patch 2.4. The community made a big push to convince CA that the most popular, sandbox mode, "Main Content" of the game should not be behind a paywall of owning all 3 games, just get the extra LLs through what you own in DLC, and we won out. Then Chorfs came out, $25 dollars that was given a pass due to it being a highly anticipated race pack. Now SoC, $25 dollars for less content. It's almost as if CA said "Alright, we'll give you what you want, but you'll pay for it later."
So not only is the "bonus" that people got for buying the 3 games given to all, but now I also have to pay more because of that?
@@ianover6838 It's a very cynical take I'll admit, and most likely isn't true, but if the business model was trying to get everyone to buy all 3 games just to play IE, and they gave that up out of "goodwill," maybe someone in CA with a suit thinks they need to recoup cost.
@@hickacious_d6175 You could be right but I think it is waaaaay more basic than anything like that. They want more money, more money makes Sega ease off and keeps shareholders happy. Problem is those groups also expect to see larger green numbers with each report so I would not be surprised if we see this getting worse, the gaming industry has become saturated with money grubbing assholes in corporate positions across the board. They don't even need to hide that anymore, they hold IPs hostage and prey on nostalgia to get the money they want. But that's all it is, bigger green numbers and larger bonuses for the leads.
I am one of those people who defended the game at launch, I truly believed it would get better. But I've gotta agree with almost everything you've said in this video. They are just taking the piss right now on so many fronts. I think the DLC is honestly just the straw that broke the camel's back. We've been very patient with the expectation that things would get better, but the game's been out for 18 months now. This kind of continual bad support is just not acceptable.
I know im going to get out and i know I'll play it enough to get value out of it... if you don't feel the same don't buy it, play it, promote it etc. Each person is responsible for thier own decisions, simple as.
Interesting insight into the developer's motivation to actually promote keysellers.
$25 was fair for Chaos Dwarves that was a huge pack. For this DLC they would need to add a chicken hut, lore of hags, and a Cathay melee hero to make it fair.
I feel like this is the general picture of how the gaming scene looks like right now. This seems to be the standard for AAA studios these days, tbh, pumping out half created content, fully priced since we, the community, keep on buying their crap.
Imagine these practices 20-25 years ago when real, complete games were being created.
18:42 a wild Dracir appears. The 40 Cathay peasants stacking to kill a skybark is legendary.
That said: I was back then warning people about the Chaos Dwarf price.
Well to be fair: Yes you get a whole race and there was *some* effort put into it. That is all true.
But like i said: It was a testing ground how much they can charge for and of course i was right.
So i´m actually quite happy that people are right now concerned about future pricing with at least this dlc.
I didn´t get TWWH3 at release because of course you saw already all the red flags. But even since then it doesn´t seem to have improved that much?
For now I don´t really feel like supporting CA. So yeah gonna stick with TWWH2 instead for a long time.
Edit: I also think Larian with Baldurs Gate 3 (which i´m having a ton of fun right now) has brought some minds together that what is too much is too much in this industry and the usual bullshit.
And i think that´s great.
This entire situation is really rough for everyone. Personally, I feel torn between buying the DLC because I do genuinely love total war Warhammer, but at the same time I agree that CA is pushing a boundary to a breaking point. I don’t know how many people feel the same, but I just feel like it’s a lose lose situation for everyone But CA.
Reddit is no place for healthy debate. Anyone suggesting something against the popular opinion gets downvoted to oblivion. It's not because people are bitter that they get downvoted.