Muslim Girl Questions Veganism: Do Plants Feel?
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- I hold a sign that says "I'm doing a social experiment" and people come and approach me. Then, we discuss consent and why that is important to them. In the end, we try to get to what is holding them back from not paying for needless animal exploitation, abuse and slaughter
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The greatest speech you'll ever hear: • Gary Yourofsky - The M...
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00:00 Intro
00:21 Questions
03:16 Vegan talk
Sources used in the video:
Position of the academy of nutrition and dietetics
PMID: 27886704
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886...
The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness
fcmconference.org/img/Cambrid...
Plant sentience: The burden of proof
www.wellbeingintlstudiesrepos...
Botanists Say Plants Are Not Conscious
www.the-scientist.com/botanis...
You can be muslim and vegan. In fact, being vegan makes you a better more observant muslim. In the words of their prophet Muhammad: "A good deed done to an animal is as meritorious as a good deed done to a human being, while an act of cruelty to an animal is as bad as an act of cruelty to a human being."
Unnecessary harm is cruelty.
That's a great quote
@@longevitycoach1573so u think a bug is of equal value than an animal? Do u understand that a bug is not a sentient being? A plant isn’t either. Anyway, no one has to kill the beetles to eat Potatoes. No one has to kill a tree ti eat an apple.
Poor innocent animals. You don’t want to be in their shoes 👈🤥. You don’t hurt your dog😍🤗🐶🤥. Longest living people on Earth, are vegan. PIaque forms eating animals. Plant-based/vegans don’t have pIaque. ✅♥️😬🐒🐵🦧🦍👱🏼♂️👩🏽😉. Buddhist monks most of them are vegan ✅♥️💪😬😉.. rice, quinoa, beans, and lentils, and oats, fruits and herbs and spices, yeast B12 tablespoon, every day, is the key to healthiness ✅😉!!….
I'm sorry to be that guy, but I grew up Muslim and this is inherently false. Islam makes it very clear that animals are musakhara, i.e. made at a lower status for the benefit of humans, which is used to justify our use of them for our benefit. Animal sacrifice moreover is a big part of the religion, which is quite relevant with Eid al Adha coming up, where it is not an obligation but a sunna (that is something that is good to do) to kill and eat an animal, traditionally a sheep where I come from (as indeed Muhammed used to do). This should come as no surprise when we consider that this religion clearly delineates the correct way to slaughter an animal and which animals are permitted for eating. Killing and eating animals is not makrooh (permitted but bad, literally hated) either. To be Muslim and vegan for ethical reasons therefore is to fundamentally misunderstand/not believe in certain aspects of Islam, which is very clear on it being wrong to make haram what god has ordained halal; that is, one cannot claim as a Muslim that eating meat is immoral. They can choose not to eat it for health concerns, but that's about it. I'm personally not a Muslim anymore for a variety of reasons, and I think it's important that we acknowledge the role this religion plays in legitimising and actively driving the deaths of countless animals the world over year by year. I don't want to do this with an air of judgement and hatred. We're all human, regardless of what religion we're raised in. That being said, I'm also very against sugarcoating facts like this, and even more against presenting them like this to a presumably Western audience that doesn't know any better. There are genuine issues to be tackled here, and you'll see that living in the Middle East.
Editing my comment because I'm realising it points out contradictions without addressing how this fits in with your quote. I think the content of my comment and yours can be read together to mean that it is wrong to be cruel to animals for something like fun, but that killing them to eat them is a valid thing and doesn't apply to that. In fact, we see various sources in the Islamic tradition that seem to agree with this. I like this hasan hadeeth because it perfectly answers the question where Muhammed says: "There is no person who kills a small bird or anything larger, for no just reason, whom Allah will not ask [i.e. judge] about it." It was said: "O Messenger of Allah, what does 'just reason' mean?" He said: "That you slaughter it and eat it, and not cut off its head and throw it aside," (as narrated in Al Nasa'i book 43 hadeeth 85). This to me is the only reading that can reconcile the ideas in Islam of not being cruel to animals but them being inherently lower and permissible to kill and eat. Any other reading is going to be incompatible with one or the other.
That was a great outreach, she seemed like a good person at heart , just needed to be steered in the right direction , hopefully she'll arrive .
She can drive any direction that she wants to
Thank you, Martin! Hopefully she is open minded enough to actually act. It felt like towards the end she didn’t want engage too much anymore
@@veganpowerlabwe wen't to that vegan restaurant and i had the chawarma like you recommended and it was delicious .Met the owner who wasn't there the last time , what a nice person and she rememberd you .
Someone once told me that trees and plants are sentient, but couldn't grasp the fact that their is Someone inside an animal but not a tree .
Much like how animals are not people
@@maxmcintyre5068 Animals are someone, they're not an "it" or a "thing" , they're sentient beings, they're animate consequently they're someone.
@@maxmcintyre5068 Do you agree with "treat others how you want to be treated" or are you okay with being murdered for a sandwich?
I’m currently babysitting our pets
Animals are not human therefore they don’t have the same rights
Great job cip hope you are ok ❤❤❤❤
Thank you so much, Kerri! I’m doing well! Therapy helps. 🤗💚
As usual, nice work Cip! Hope you're feeling better! 🤗🌱💯💚
Thank you so much, Donna 🤗💚 i appreciate you watching
Ban Slaughter
100% agree!🥺🥺🥺♥️♥️♥️🐮🐔🐷
Will never happen
It should be banned and it will be banned! I’m hopeful
'Trees bleed THO'
That's not blood, that's red tears....they're crying
Great work thank you Cip♥️♥️♥️🫂🫂🫂🐥🐥🐥
Thank you, Nataly! It was okay. Watching it back it felt like she wasn’t as open as I thought
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Good work!
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Thank you so much 🙏🤗
@@veganpowerlab Ahh so much love in this comment section ❤We (all other animals included) all deserve it!
More interesting vegan récipes please!!!
Good job btw.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a good video coming up soon with recipes and which will be a bit more entertaining
Nice. It’s not a personal choice when their is a victim involved
Consent of trees🥺
She did listen, so hopefully she won't believe that going forward
There’s not many outreach videos that I watch where I feel as if the person is actually going to reflect on everything spoken about, but she seems like the type that will go home and actually think about it all.
I can only hope. She seemed like an intelligent person and also compassionate enough to care and make the change
I like how you got her to agree tradition doesn't matter, enjoyment doesn't matter, number of people who do it doesn't matter, and then a second later she just uses all these excuses anyway
Such a good observation. Perhaps I should’ve used that more
Right - She seemed to just be agreeing to everything to appear likeable. Those excuses will keep her from having to care about animals or change, like a narcissistic security blanket..
My dog got a sleeper build under the jacket. Vegan power
💪💪🤗💚
As a bothany enthusiast, this argument about plants is ridiculous, heres how tom desarm it: we animals evolved pain for a simple reason, we can move, we can escape/fight/avoid what is causing it. Plants on the other hand wouldnt benefit from feeling pain, they cant do shit about as theyre imoble, on the other hand plants did evolve a series of mechanism for us to be atracted to the taste/sight/smell/psychoactivity such as fruits, high fructose sacarose parts that essentially make us unkowingly propagate their seeds and carry out these species with us throught out the world (sugar, coffee, wheat, pepper, weed) and take care of crops and help them with all sorts of enhancing technologies. They are absolute intelligent and aware of their surrounding but we shouldnt anthropomorphosise them.
I actually said that in a conversation and the person said "well, it's even worse to kill plants then, cause they can't run away". Ofc they weren't serious, but that's the thing. People will cling onto anything to try and justify not changing
Thank you for standing up for animals ✊✊✊✊
Excellent conversation on your part Cip, I hope she thinks about the conversation and decides to live a violent free life, thinks about all the animals she is sending to slaughter because of her food choices.
In no religious texts anywhere does it say ,you must kill and eat the animals.
Exactly! It’s just another excuse, nothing more
The second she said trees have sentience she immediately became an absolute simpleton.
Yeah. I hope she at least listened to reason. It would be ridiculous to claim that plants are sentient
@smotty2hotty The kicker was that she then claimed animals have no intellect!!! Obviously a need to feel superior....
Thank you so much!
It's interesting to see people's facial expressions change as soon they realise where it is going after the end of "consent" questions.
Indeed. A lot of them feel like they don’t wanna be part of the conversation. They wanna keep doing it, not be held accountable for it
"Trees are conscious."
The amount of absurdity and ignorance some meat-eaters show as a defence of meat-eating is staggering.
Great stuff, thank you 💚💚
Thank you so much 🤗💚
A vegan muslim is a better muslim. I think the Quran has a lot more focus on animals, so it should be more obvious to muslims to be vegan than maybe Christians? I haven't read neither of the books.
Indeed. I think it's just a justification that people use to not change. I find it hard to believe that that's what's keeping them from doing it
@@veganpowerlab It's an easy "escape" to continue "business as usual"...
Explain Islam's view on dogs and pigs then
Not necessarily. Grew up Muslim here, and Islam makes it pretty clear that it's okay to kill animals for food, and that animals are made to be beneath humans for the benefit of humans. Funnily as an Arab, it's quite common for Arab Christians to be vegetarian either temporarily for certain occasions or in general. I think this is also the case with Ethiopians too. I think there's definitely themes of eating animals being okay to some extent in Christianity, but to my knowledge it's never as explicit about being pro-killing animals as Islam, and the scripture can be interpreted either which way.
@@largefam3109 What were your friends and families' views on dogs and pigs?
And the hypocrisy quickly rares its head when they are called out on doing the very thing they say is inexcusable. Just mystifying. Oh yes, and there is our old friend. “plants have feelings“… That story just has so much staying power doesn’t it? It’s commendable how even keeled you remain when people respond with this ad nauseam ridiculousness to justify their bad habits.
Thanks! I try to let them say their stuff because the more ridiculous, the better the video. But, yeah.. people believe weird contradictory things
WTF she is justifying murdering animals by what their religion says ignoring what most religions say ‘Thou shall not kill’
@@longevitycoach1573 veganism is about rejecting the false belief that animals are here for us to use. what you are describing has nothing to do with veganism. any future agriculture advancements which involve minimization of insects being killed, will of course be what we would work toward. this is a distraction for you, though. you just want to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions. you are obsessed specifically with potato beetles, for some reason. why do you think that is?
@@animalsareherewithusnotforus Well-said. Crops Though!
Someone please stop the plant activists!
Haha.. seems like that’s the only thing some people can say against veganism
@@veganpowerlab Green Shrubbery Matters.
Great video. One of the questions you asked at first was does it matter if the person is passed out and can't remember (ie conscious); does consent still matter? And the answer from both parties is yes consent still matters. How is this different with trees? Trees are not conscious but you're saying consent doesn't matter even though they're alive.
Well, it’s about sentience, not life
I think this was overall a great interview. I liked that you started out with consent. I think you could’ve done a better job to listen to her and ask more questions to get her to see the holes in her reasoning. I think that’s more powerful than telling her straight out she’s wrong. Also, I would get her name first before starting the video and building rapport first before the conversation. As a therapist, I think this could have made your arguments more effective because connection and rapport are essential when helping people change their minds. Overall, great job!
I watch hundreds of these interviews and I cannot think of anything he could have done better or said. She was dishonest and insincere, just agreeing to be likeable. She felt animals were inferior (she said they had no intellect) and just didn't care.
You can be any culture and still be vegan.
No culture says “You can’t be vegan”.
Tomatoes scream tho!
Also happy Pride Month!
Mikeeee! Obviously tomatoes scream. Animals no, but tomatoes..
@@veganpowerlab 🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅
I guess every argument is good to murder for your taste. 😢
Great job but she views animals as inferior -- as you described speciesism. She claimed animals have no intellect -- seriously? I'd question her own intellect using such poor rationalizations like shrubbery has feelings and religion says killing is cool. Not an honest person, she was only appearing to agree with you to be likeable. She also called eating fish vegetarianism even though she knew it was pescatarian.
Can I kill mosquitos that are attacking me during the night?
You can defend yourself. The question is should you exploit and slaughter sentient individuals for optional products?
So if we can’t eat fish maybe we should eat humans that flap around with arms and legs on a serf board that look like a seal paddling. White shark.
Or, you know… eat plants and plant based products
@@veganpowerlab Yes we can eat plant based products. Vegan for the animals.
Got my fiance off veganism of 5 years and she's 2 years into meat eating and far healthier. I was vegan for 5 years and realized its a cult 6 years ago and am far healthier as a meat eater. I am mostly low carb keto. Vegans overwhelmingly appear malnurished and cultish imo.
Animal sacrifices multiple times a year (Christmas, thanksgiving etc), killing literal babies, billions per year, so you can eat their bodies, buying powdered animal organs, indoctrination from birth, mindless defence of all that barbarity with pseudoscience nonsense, obstinate and irrational willful ignorance or outright denial of the brutal exploitation, abuse, mutilation, violence and cruelty that is the reality of your choices, exploiting their reproductive systems and killing these innocent gentle beings all for “products”we don't need and all for sensory pleasure.
Or compassion for other living beings, speaking out and fighting for the rights of said beings using logic, empathy and scientific data.
Which sounds more like a cult?
What do you think veganism is?
The longest living humans on this planet thrive on a plant based diet, for example the 7th day Adventist people in California.
I would call veganism a philosophy. How would you call the civil rights movement or feminism? a cult? Or are you just trying to offend vegans by calling veganism a cult?
Even if it was a cult, if it means less suffering, a healthy life, less pollution, less space for farming/ more space for wildlife and a clear conscience then yes, I would definitely join.
Btw Cip, you're looking healthy as do most vegans!
@@midasghijsels Objective lies. The longest living woman lived to 122. Longest living man 117. Longest vegan ever recorded Loreen Dinwiddle lived to 109, a female, and was not vegan until 1922...aka she was 19 years old when she started, so a full grown and nearly fully developed brain adult.. So not-so-great example either. I wasn't even making this argument, but you purported objective lies.
@@veganpowerlab Appreciate the question and your polite approach to the topic. Veganism is like any ism, a dogmatic practice. I was vegan for health but believe I was led astray by the fad, and my belief is why have a diet requiring supplementation? You can thrive on a beef and salt diet with no supplementation.
If you are vegan for philosophical reasons then I have no argument, right on. Just not something I did. I believe theres too many parts of the world its not feasible to be vegan, ethically speaking due to focusing on the bad ethics of high "food miles".
I'd love to meet this guy in person and eat steak in front of him.
Hahaha.. why? Would that make your argument for exploiting sentient beings for optional food any better?
Because he can’t figure any other reason to deal with his inner conflict but to spite people who make better ethical choices