RCBS vs Autotrickler
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Testing for consistency and speed between the RCBS 1500 and the AutoTrickler V4 with FX120i scale. I used a charge weight of 41 grains of Hodgdon H4350 for this test. Each test used 30 charge samples.
=== Timestamps ===
00:00 Introduction
05:27 Weight Consistency : RCBS
07:30 RCBS Weight Results
11:13 Speed: RCBS
12:30 RCBS Speed Results
13:55 Weight and Speed Test: AutoTrickler
16:20 AutoTrickler Results
19:23 Is the AutoTrickler really worth it?
22:00 The worst AutoTrickler feature...
24:40 Conclusion and Summary Data - Věda a technologie
for ELR, 1Mile/2Mile the variance (accuracy) in powder dispense does matter, the V4 is def worth it, for PRS/Hunting def not.
I can't see upgrading from the V3 to the V4. I mean the V3 just plain out works. Plus, I like having the Trickler separate from the Auto Throw. Just me.😎
I had the rcbs cm lite, got frustrated one to many times with overthrows and drifting numbers. Bought the v4 and its sooo much better. You can tune it with varget to throw a 40gr charge in 10 to 12 seconds within .02gr
Helpful. Balanced. Thanks.
Thank you sir. I was recently looking to upgrade...no need after seeing this
So based on your working assumptions (10 FPS per 0.1 gr and a normal distribution) the es would be 20 fps at a 95% confidence interval... That would def start to make a difference past 800 yards. But you have a good point regarding matching precision needed to the application.
20fps on a 284 cal rifle shooting ELD-X bullets at 2900fps amounts to less than 5" at 1000yds. Granted, that's just velocity and lots of other stuff would just add to dispersion, but a 20fps spread over 95/100 shots would be amazing.
If you want THAT accurate l, your using a balance beam, and throwing away bullets because they are too far away from ADVERTISED GRAINS. Yes 180 grain bullets can range down to 175 upto 185 pretty common.
I am waiting on my Auto trickler to come in. I have been wanting one for some time now. I don’t like how my RCBS and Hornady will deviate shows 22gr I will weigh it again and it’ll be a tenth off plus or minus there is a video out on how to set up the AT4 it’s a pretty great video.
I bought what at the time was a great scale for that year the A and D has been at the very top for years now when loading and doing powder charge ladder testing I believe this it the scale to use.
I’ll keep my other two for pistol loads so they won’t go to waste.
Enjoy your auto trickler, it works very well, especially after you tweak the drop speeds and transition time.
I have a charge master lite and a v4. Sd and es is definitely smaller with the v4. Am I a good enough shooter to need this likely not but I have the means and it's what I enjoy. To each their own.
Great video. I just need to come into a bunch of money for a new dispenser.
That rcbs 1500 back then went for like 230$. Based on its technology back then vs now, its easily holding its own especially when it comes to cost
I love my rcbs 1500, but, its SLOW. (light taps on the powdered chute with a tiny screwdriver, speeds things up a bit).
Cut the top off an empty 1lb powder jug, put in in behind the autotrickler and pull the piece of plexiglass. Tilt the machine back and it empties completely. No need to even un plug it. It is that simple.
That's a good suggestion. As I currently have mine set up, there's no room for behind it. I could pull it out, but then I'm giving up bench space. And I definitely don't want to move the entire scale every time I use it, since I know it's stable and level where it is.
I do stand by the criticism of the drain design, regardless. It's just not well thought out, IMO.
You could have 4 or 5 charge masters for that price. I am pretty sure 4 or 5 going at the same time is faster than one auto trickler.
My Rcbs is terrible. The scale is fine, but the Charge Master is not. Charge weights all over the place. Tried all the tips and tricks. Will never use it for precision ammo.
I try to keep my scales at least 3 feet from any other electronic devices .... Including other measuring tools and fluorescent lights .
Have both. For 85 percent. Rcbs is just fine. I did the same test multiple times. Rcbs was slower, but just as accurate
So, you run the CM as fast as possible but run the AT at only 60%. No wonder they take similar time.
The worth I see in the AT V4 is that I can load 3 rounds a minute with minimal overthrows. I also trust the laboratory quality scale.
The CM with all the tweaks I could find averages almost 2 rounds a minute. That does make a difference seeing as I load 600 rounds at a time.
As for emptying the AT, just read the manual. Or just watch Adam's YT video. Also, emptying a AT is so much simpler than the CM. Just can't see a reason for your complaint.
Lastly, as a hunter or a plinker you don't need a AT. Similarly you don't need a CM. A manual powder thrower and trickler works faster for similar acuracy as a CM at a fraction of the cost. If you reload high volume and want precision something similar to the AT is worth it.
I ran the AT at it's default settings, not "60%". I explain that I didn't tweak it, and I even have another video about what speed can be gained by tweaking it's settings.
I'm actually working on a systematic process that I'll probably make a video on soon about tweaking the AT for optimal speed. My recent testing was averaging something like 10 second drops, but I have to work on the variance a bit. I think it's definitely possible to get it below 15 seconds a drop without significant overthrows.
As far as emptying the AT, I completely stand by my opinion. It's the worst emptying system in a powder dropper on the market. The panels have no retention, and there's tons of open area that powder can come out of if you tilt it too much one way or another.
I think in your case, the AT is a no brainer. But the CM is still plenty viable. It averaged 25 seconds per drop in this test, which is only 5 seconds per drop behind your "3 rounds per minute" pace. I'm not sure why yours was slower. Further, it's accuracy was fantastic. Not as good as the AT, but it can't be, as the scale doesn't have the resolution to be better.
I would definitely recommend it over a manual setup for someone unless they were on a tight budget. It's way faster, because manual can drop just as fast but it ties you up while you're doing it. Plus, it's way easier to set it up and switch drop weights, like if you're running ladders or doing multiple calibers or loads.
I do not think the RCBS is better than the AutoTrickler. It's not. But it's not a bad setup for the price, at all.
RCBS scales work but are not the best. I dealt with drifting for years before throwing it out the window. I now use the A&D FX 120. No regrets.
Just remove the Powder Hopper Pl. underneath rear window, drain into the hopper and then back in to your 1 pound container, just run the tubes to drain them into the powder cup
I just remove the hopper, then pick the trickler up of the scale and dump it out the back window into the hopper. Used to run the tubes but its faster to just pick it up.
@@Koelkop thank you for the tip. I’ve only had mine a short time still experimenting with everything.
No chance you have the v4 tuned proper, no way they have similar speed lol
See the following video. This was just with the built in calibration and no extra tuning.
Super trickler will be my choice its future proof - i do have v4 and it works just fine you can really tune it with advanced menue option -. In settings press and hold close button to access advenced option in V 4
This guy is a fucking nerd and I love it. Smart people are so important.
RCBS ChargeMaster is a piece or crap. I’ve had two of them die. Also it take 4x as long if not move to drop a charge and not
Nearly as accurate.
The powder trickler V4 is far more superior and accurate worth the money.
Midway USA has the rcbs autotrickler on sale right now for I believe $190 I think it might be lower than that I've had my rcbs for around 10 plus years well when it first came out and to this day I'm still impressed with it best bang for the buck I set my up .2 grans under charge weight and normally it will way the exact weight I'm looking for I've also sped up how fast it will dispense the powder that seamed to help out I don't know if you have screwed around with that you have to be careful when doing it if you go to fast it will over throw by a lot
Oh I also spend up how long it takes to do the little trickle and the end of the dispense that saved a lot of time
Sometimes I think these tools that cost almost 10x what the average of everything else costs are for the folks who judge quality by price exclusively.
If you get sponsorship money, go for it. Not for Joe reloader. The regular guy. 😮 Way to cost prohibitive.
I dont believe the RCBS average .
I'm late to the party, however I've weighed thousands of lab sample to 4 decimal places of a gram.
First off, you failed by not using a pair of lint free cotton gloves. Skin oil transfer increases the weight each time you touch the weight pan. Yo can't blame the RCBS V4 for only having .1 grain accuracy when it was never designed for that resolution.
The auto trickler to be accurate requires the chamber to be completely enclosed. Any breeze with skew the results.
Many years ago, I owned one of the first RCBS auto powder measuring and trickler drop units. Slow wasn't a word I'd use to describe the function, sedimentary is closer to the speed. To drop a charge and trickle, was over a minute.
I ordered a bunch of pans, then weighed each and removed material so they all weighed to within .001 grams of each other. I'd drop charges from a Uni-Flow into 10 pans, then use the hand trickler to hit my 43.5 grains of Reloder powder for my 308 casings. It's fast and easy, and best of all, inexpensive.
I don't blame the RCBS; I actually directly mention that it's as accurate as it can be given its scale's resolution.
As far as finger grease and air movement affecting measurements, they aren't really a factor at this level of measurement (unless your fingers are very dirty or AC blows right at the scale, my AC didn't run during this test anyway). Plus, if you're taking the time to use the system fully enclosed and stabilized, you're giving up way more time than you'll gain by using the AT anyway.
A kernel of H4350 weighs around 0.02gr, so you literally can't get more precise without splitting grains with a razor... But I'm not sure being able to measure to the milligram would actually achieve anything in the end for any practical real world application.
@@TechDregs
You'd be surprised at how fast you can weigh samples including closing the chamber door.
I used 20 platinum crucibles with carbon fiber that would be weighed after acid digestion and drying. From placing the sample on the balance, closing the door and the balance stabilizing took less than 20 seconds. It's all about getting into a rhythm.
You showed the auto trickler displaying .06 grains higher than the RCBS V4, and that shifted a few times. You might not think skin oils are a big deal, but they are. Try the gloves or a pair pliers to handle the weight pan. It might surprise you.
H4350 must be totally different than any of the Alliant Reloder powders, as there were always small pieces of powder that weren't sticks.
@@gungadinn The 0.06gr difference was just one observation, and could easily be explained by the RCBS not being able to weigh anything under 0.1gr. If it rounds a 0.04 down to 0.00, the deviation could be as small as 0.02 which is the limit of the FX120i's resolution.
I tested for "drift" over the test and found that there wasn't any (the slope was actually -0.0005 per obs), so if the pan was getting heavier as I went, it didn't show up in this sample.
I don't think oil buildup is a real concern over normal loading sessions, but maybe I'll do a finger gunk test to see how bad it can be.
You aint measuring to a tenth of a grain it is 100th, it equates to 7 fps and most wont even hold their scope on target perfectly enough to make that lab scale worth it, i use the RCBS and get less than 15 fps spread for F Class and it is good enough to win national shoots
That's not how you pronounce Hodgdon.
You csn really make v4 fast by going to advanced options and do few adjustments-' v4 resale value will be much better after a while
No! Absolutely not! But if you have the money to waste, fill your boots! For me I’d much rather spend the money on wine ,women and song than waste it on these machines. A good beam scale and a lee deluxe perfect powder measure is all you need! 🇬🇧🏴
Hahaha you must have endless amounts if time...
@@rkwjunior2298 I'll second that! My time is far more valuable than the extremely slow and tedious dinosaur method of beam scales. 🤣🤣