Narcissism Is a Defense Against BPD | OTTO KERNBERG
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2017
- Get the full, minimally edited interview (and see the documentary we made about BPD called BORDERLINE) here: watch.borderlinethefilm.com/p...
What lies beneath a narcissistic defense? Otto Kernberg describes Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and its 'pathological grandiose self.' On the surface, the person seems to be integrated and looks much better than other personality disorders. But...
Otto Kernberg, a pioneer in the field of severe personality disorders and Borderline in particular (and creator of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy), discusses Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) from the viewpoint of clinician / ridiculously experienced expert.
The complete Kernberg interview playlist: • What Are Personality D...
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What I hate is when I am called the narcissist by abusive people for merely standing up for myself
You too, huh? This shite doesnt just manifest in the family system, it pervades our social and justice systems and I can speak from experience, thats some funk I wish on no one. Its the original familial abuse amplified beyond belief.
Thank you for expressing this.
Yeah it's difficult to unpack I relate to the grandiose internal world and self-involvement that Kernberg described so much but also what you said.
Or cruel/abusive by the abuser. I cannot be sure if the projection is deliberate irony or if they are unaware of how ridiculous they are
That’s kind of what my mom did. She called me self obsessed bc I isolated myself bc I felt shitty. Oh and bc I had needs and interests of my own that maybe weren’t hers.
I feel I never really learnt to stand up for myself out of fear of being seen as narcissistic or “self obsessed” and selfish.
Fascinating. If you see a narcissist get broken out of their frame you witness a bpd type meltdown. Then they regroup and pretend it never happened.
Are you some kind of biologist?
Yep, it's called the narcissistic collapse. NPD is basically just a grandiose shell over a borderline core. When that shell collapses, they revert to a borderline state.
I saw this first hand. I broke with her because I realized she was using me and that the intimacy wasn't real, later realized it was narcissism.
I've never seen an unhinged rage like that before when I broke up with someone, and the smear campaign that followed was something I wasn't prepared for. I think I got to peer into that BPD core and what I saw was someone's world collapsing around them (over a relationship that was a month and a half long). She's still acting in the NPD self, but I got to see that unhinged BPD core.
Under rug swept...like it never happened. smh Consumate actors! Fake to their core.
@@hakametal People have no idea about BPD rage until they witness it firsthand, and if they're male and 6'4" 210 pounds, it's terrifying. It's pretty bad as it is when it's a 5'9" fit, slender female, too.
So basically a Narcissist is a paradox of someone who is full of themselves but rather empty
Yes, my mother exactly
Exactly
Best definition
Fine definition for God as well. If you understand what I'm getting at...
More like they are SO empty they must bring the entire rest of the world into their delusion, because they know the lie is SO big that there’s no way they can make even themselves believe it on their own.
"Grandiosity and emptiness at the same time."
Nailed it.
The worst thing is that it is not their fault.
Yes they did
I think I have it but I’m struggling even leaving house so idk 🤷🏻♂️ anymore.
Gold plated shit.
@@TomeRodrigoeven worse: they're alone in knowing that it's not their fault.
Not even accredited psychologists understand the root cause of NPD let alone how to treat it.
There's like, only the proverbial handful of psychiatrists who come somewhat close to that.
2:00 “the excessive need to be admired without any mutuality of relationship….” THAT clinched it for me
Me too.
same
that crazy bitch ruined me
In every narcissist I've encountered, the most dominant trait I've seen is personal insecurity and a continual attempt to cover it up.
No demonic entity?
What do you call a narcissist?
That is exactly what a narcissist is. Thats why their false self it’s referred to as a “mask”. That mask is their attempt to cover up a frail and weak ego.
@@TheHeinrichSymposiumnope. And anyone who believes that doesn’t understand NPD or any other cluster b personality disorder.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye Evil.
To quote Sam Vaknin “narcissism isn’t a choice. Narcissistic behavior is a choice.”
@@MorganHyde-ie5ruthen find ways to back up and change, prevent or modify behaviours and choices that lead to behaviours, or withdraw from tempting situations... And understand as much as possible.
@@MorganHyde-ie5ruas long as you know that’s nobody’s problem but your own.
It's the nature of sin....You can either put yourself first or live in love and put others first....Its always a choice...Selfish narcissistic people will always make the decision of self as more important than others!
And that's the key point, their behaviour is a choice. They know exactly what they are doing when they dish out their ab*se - there is no excuse
@@Ddp84 Truth we are all responsible for our behaviour….Diagnosis is never an excuse for evil behaviour!
I also suspect that BPD can somewhat result *from* narcissistic interpersonal relationships. The gaslighting, manipulation, and inconsistency can leave a person feeling empty, disconnected from their feelings, and without identity.
Glad to see someone thinks this too. When I was in a relationship with what I think was a covert narcissist, it only took a few months for her to make me feel attached, making me feel very special and desire her attention. Then a few more months to break me down with the abuse, although that only began once she had ammunition. She got that by getting me to open up, only to prey on my insecurities as punishment for speaking against her narrative or behavior. It was silent, calculated, and always my fault. "You practically made me this way." was one of the last things she ever said to me.
That's CPTSD. Trauma is not a mental illness.
I heard a long time ago that no one can make you feel a certain way. Was/is your mother or father a narcissist? @@realAdamClinch
@@AnitaSoler from NIMH: "Many people with borderline personality disorder report having experienced traumatic life events, such as abuse, abandonment, or hardship, during childhood. Others may have experienced unstable, invalidating relationships or conflicts."
Bpd comes from genes. There is excess and deficiency of certain personality traits. It may be that in the family there are others with personality disorders as narcissism. But this trauma trend, blaming others for their bpd doesnt help their treatment which includes radical acceptance and internalizing responsibility
it all begins
and it all ends
with lying
Lying to themselves, too.
Absolutely correct. 😢
Funny how one person who said they had BPD left a comment that lying wasn't part of BPD.
Like those of us who have experienced someone with BPD haven't been lied to and gaslit enough.
@@aidanmartin7923Imagine lying about lying
Nah, lying is just a symptom....
The thing I have noticed is as long as everything is going the way they want it to go, they're fine. But if you want something different, or of something unexpected happens to them, or if your needs/wants don't line up with theirs, it's full on meltdown mode... pulling out all the stops, guilt-tripping, crying, having a tantrum, screaming... whatever will work... until everything gets back to the way they want it again.
I thought that's just how immature people act
In the end, the narcissists clearly reveal themselves when they are unable to put themselves in another's shoes...showing an inability to empathize.
This right here, they have absolutely no empathy, they'll try to pretend at certain times but it rarely happens and it fades so fast and if you question them about empathetic situations they will always show their true self because they cannot comprehend having any other emotion, they get caught in the thought and imagining sort of one upping someone but their child like mind cannot pretend to be a caring person at the same time they are using their imagination for the scenario you are questioning them about, so their deceptive narcissistic mask slips away revealing their true feelings about others. The sad thing is they are stuck this way in this damaged childs mind as a learned psychological self defence mechanism from childhood abuse and sometimes neglect, abandonment, or isolation. Lasting seemingly invisible scars.
that's psychopaths not narcissists
I've come to the conclusion that childhood abuse and or bullying is an element of narcissistic behaviour developing
Our mother is a narcissist. Us kids grew up under that thumb. Dad made sure we sat there and took it. There being a five year difference in age between all 3 of us made it so much worse. My older sister is a full blown narc. To this day, neither my brother or I have words for it.
This problem did not pop up out of nowhere. It is the worst heirloom a family could pass between gens. Our sister is so far gone...the last 10 years have done a number on her. She used fake virtue a lot of times to mask her narcissism before. The media, social media personalities and politicians in the last decade have really poured on that very thing. It "justifies" the mask she has worn this whole time and she is disintegrating because of it.
She suffered more than my brother and I ever did and we are lifelong addicts because of our experience with it.
All 3 of us are speechless even now. Being so unspoken, none of us had kids of our own.
@@robk5865
I am sorry to hear of that from you! I have seen "No Love" in these Cold Narc Mothers. and the fathers that just hold on and let these cold mothers destroy their children. I have seen a lot of it.
I acted as a narcissist in my teens, then psychedelic trips killed something inside, i felt guilt for the things i did for the first time, i reflected on my behavior for the first time, during next years i tried to avoid hurting anyone, but i couldn't do it towards myself, my mind turned against me, i've been diagnosed with BPD in the last few months, now i'm trying to manage it without building false defenses again.
Disorders are tough.
Same. Weed seemed to help.
@@notaloverofwisdom1232 i'm sober for more than 3 months now, i used everything for 10 years daily except H, so i was kind of in it, but i agree, weed helped me deal with emotions a lot, but it also induced cravings for other things too so i stopped.
I might return to it someday, but i want to learn problem-solving without and only use it for meditation and such.
Hang in there 🫂 ❤️
Disorders are tough, but Jesus is real and heals all kinds of diseases and disorder.. reach out to him.. seek him wholeheartedly and you shall find him . ✝️💜📖
Same with me. Diagnosed was the NPD at 21. Got into psychedelics at 34 and really dove in. It made me realize I was always the problem and so I pulled back from everything as I don't want to disrupt anyone anymore.
As a retired therapist I am pleased to hear him again. Splitting predominates and they lack object constancy. Grandiosity as a defense against their dependency.
Hi, I am a 53 year old vulnerable NPD. I dated a grandiose NPD. Now, I think there are way 2 many differences between vulnerables and grandiose to be treated as the same disorder.
Ironically, the DSM essentially addresses the grandioe type which happens to be quite rare. This, in my view is due to the long-lasting confusion between ASPD and NPD. Actually the DSM guy is really an ASPD (minus some features such as lying, exploitativeness...).
The last update of the DSM, meaning the DSMV-TR entails a new approach which make distinguishes better between ASPD and NPD. Although the NPD is still mainly grandiose.
Now to me vulnerable NPDs, like me, have an underlying BPD but I don't really see this in my grandiose ex.
Grandiose fare better, are more optimistic, are more delusional regarding their self-image (identify with their 'false' self), seek admiration, seek an admirative mother in their partner and all the abuse is related to the very scrict script they expect their partners to follow. They don't really punish but just go away or are very controlling. They gaslight in an explosive way. They are mysoginysts. I even wonder whether there are actually female cases.
I don't understand what this constant need for admiration and being the center of attention is about. Something with the mother for sure.
They self-preserve, avoid stressful situations, attend to their needs, care for themselves.
They suffer through their skin /exczema
They don't see life as an enemy and don't try to win over life.
Vulnerables are less delusional regarding self-image. They failed to identify with their false self that they because it is complying with the enemy. They are shelf-destructive. They use self-hatred as a means to stay in control. They turned away from life perceived as against them and turned away from their mum as not good enough. They seek validation rather tha admiration. However they seek validation in the wrong places and hurt themselves. The don't attack the partner because they fail to follow a script but for daring to want to connect.
They need their partner to be strong.
They float above or below, never in the right place.
They see life as an enemy.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7yeI speak from decades of experience. The covert (vulnerable) narcissist is horrible to the spouse and treats them with contempt, cruelty, you name it. It's also a proven fact that the labels that are given to NPD such as vulnerable, grandiose, Malignant are just the overall state that they operate in. However, NPD always show all three of these states depending on the circumstance. I don't think I would call NPD/BPD rage a vulnerable person, I call that a Malignant person.
@@hurricaneaquatics
Thank you for informing me. I'll try to be more malignant from now on.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye I would expect no less since everything is taken as an insult.
@@hurricaneaquatics I just didn't know what to answer.
They build a grandiose view of themselves. Then, the lies and gaslighting are woven into a fortress.
Hmm, yes, reminds me of people who consider themselves chosen.
Politicians 😂
Ask an NPD
THE NARCISSIST'S PRAYER:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it!
Better explanation then the video
Sounds awfully similar to climate change denial in some ways.
Kinda like the 'unofficial' code of the CIA: _"Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations."_
@@Lauderdizzle, Yes, that certainly applies to some who deny any climate change whatsoever. Meanwhile, our planet and nature would so benefit of a gentle, insightful approach of homo sapiens. All the horrible pollution.
I have to admit, though, there is a strong narcissistic element of grandiosity and manipulation, too, in purposely evoking feelings of guilt and fear up to the point of panic (Greta Thunberg: "I want you to panic."), insisting that climate change is predominantly man-made and can therefore be controlled by humans; denying any opposing scientists' views. That's megalomanic, too.
Meeting somewhere in the middle would be nice, instead of the extreme black-or-white, all-or-nothing.
The narc oath
I swear to tell some of the truth.
Part of the truth.
None of the truth.
Some lies I came up with On the spot.
So help me I'm god
I never installed the narcissistic defense mechanism on myself. I just lived as a ghost without a real personality, hollow, transparent, even unreal.
Fuck dude that's the only thing I have ever felt, never allowing myself to feel. I hate everything.
@themillenialwordsmith8022how?
it might not feel like it but at least you didnt put varnish on that makes it terrifying to look at whats beneath. It takes incredible strength and courage not to paint that over with 'positivity' about yourself and projecting it out as negativity towards others. I felt wiffs of these things when in survial mode for longer and not being really aware of myself, surroundings, feelings, beliefs ect. For me it was more derealisation then feeling like I didnt exist though, I think the second is harder on the phyches sense of self. The first step for me was meditation bc that sudddenly gave me the experience of who I am without all this conditioning and damaged patterns, this floating around, tiredness ect. The sense of being, of existing is a feeling foremost, not a mental construct. Selfimage is just a story you tell yourself and informed with what you went through as well, its not the truth that gives the 'you' a sense of reality. We heap that together in a sense of self but they are very diffrent. After that referencepoint I think I got enough confidence about what was possible and that there is a core that is touched and damaged but totally content and at peace. I then automaticly wanted to look at what happened, what beliefs were in me in order to get back to that totally relaxed sense of being. It is immovable but can be covered over and numbed out by patterns and beliefs we have. If you dont (want to) feel, you cant feel you exist for example. But I didnt feel I was acting out of fear, but looking back it I was but it was automatic from my nervous system to protect myself. When you feel like you dont exist, its normal your brain projects that out in others not being real humans anymore and it becomes easy to stray from your heart and become selfish ect bc they arnt real to you anyway, you dont hurt when you hurt others bc you already lost that connection to yourself. Its important to know this is all just beliefs altough it translates in feeling like reality as well. Next to the feeling of being you also have the awareness of that. Who is aware of this feeling being there or not there? I do feel feeling like you dont exist is a reflection of what you went through. I had one instance my existance was totally ignored and it landed me into instant doubt of whether I existed, it cause mayham to a soul like crazy. You have this still face experiement online and you can see how even babies discombobulate so quickly when their existance is ignored while no 'abuse' is taking place. As a human we need our existance reflected back to us but on a higher level its secured, at least awareness is always there. Everytime is was dissociating an nothing felt real, I was still very aware of that. So no matter how numb or unreal it gets, you are there being aware of it right? Sorry for the long comment lol
I'm sorry, I know it must have been bad. But it sounds so fascinating I kinda fell in love with you
@@mminlovewithflo might wanne look into that, why that draws you in. Sounds like a predatory side being called in but you know best. All things we phychologically find attractive only tell something about ourselves, not about the other person, its just their conditioning, not who they are
I unknowingly invited one to my home to hang out for a couple days..... To say that I was exhausted is an understatement
Yes. Exhausted is a perfect word for it!
It took a week for me to shake off visiting one for a few days.😢
Just like a vampire!
If you have the Capacity to Humbly Self Reflect and even Honestly Ask yourself if you're a Narcissist... you're Not!
If you have the Capacity to Humbly Self Reflect and acknowledge that you don't really want to know what NPD is about, that you would be unable to write down your story in total self-honesty, accusing neither you nor the NPD but but just telling the story, what you liked in this person, what warning signs you ignored (which is fine), how things started to go really wrong, your confusion, why you stayed.....until today: what you are looking for, what are you scared of in youreself, why you want to take revenge, what you are really trying to do on here, why you want the NPD to lack humility and self_reflection? Explain why you can't honestly answer all these questions?
If you can do all that, then you are not a victim.
Agree 👍🏼
Bullshit! This stupid way of thinking hurts so many people.
"If i ask myself, am i wrong.... then i am not wrong"
Its cringe and black & white thinking..... guess who does black % white thinking.
Cluster B personalities. Also... if you arent, then certainly you must be the victim... guess what people think like that....
Whenever is someone say... oh if you ask yourself if you are the narcissist ( the problem )
Then you are not the the narcissist ( not the problem )
REDFLAG! and makes me conclude you are ( part of ) the problem.
REMEMBER... IT ALWAYS TAKES TWO TO TANGO.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye that’s not correct if you were unfortunate enough to be born into a family of them. Children are most definitely victims of narcissists.
@@vickyb6588
Believe it or not, I am trying to help you here. Write about why you feel guilty.
Yes, “narcissist with an underlying borderline process” is a common phenomenon.
that's a borderline with psychotic stages
it’s almost as if these “labels” and black and white definitive categorizations are nuanced; the constant categories with appending sub-types and terms such as narcissism, BPD and their subsequent sub-types like “quiet”, “covert”, etc. really just indicate that narcissism prevents itself differently depending on the individual and the idiosyncrasies of their person.
Kiwnwko ajakajwb
NPD is NPD is NPD
And there’s no changing it
Walk away from these entities
The ICD 11,doesn’t differentiate between the narcissist, borderline and psychopathy
@@phoenixrisin2269 and?
My father (a psychologist. Yes.) had NPD, my stepmother BPD. I have long been confused whether my father had NPD or BPD, this at last explains his apparently BPD episodes amidst generally narcissistic personality; as well as confirming my own view that both NPD and BPD have the same basis, and simply exhibit differently. This is also why people with one are often drawn to people with the other: they deeply recognise each other.
yes at first its a fairytale but im borderline i have a soul im just completely unstable he's a narc he doesnt have a soul as a borderline i feel too human like i have wounds everywhere and anyone can throw salt anytime meanwhile i questioned if my narc ex was human
yes at first its a fairytale but im borderline i have a soul im just completely unstable he's a narc he doesnt have a soul as a borderline i feel too human like i have wounds everywhere and anyone can throw salt anytime meanwhile i questioned if my narc ex was human
@@leahflower9924 HAHAHAHA ARE YOU STUPID YOU MISSED THE POINT. NARCISSIST IS LIKE YOU VERY FRAGILE BUT INSTEAD OF WALKING AROUND WITH OPEN WOUNDS TO GET SALT THROWN ON THEM THEY COVER THEM UP FOR PROTECTION. HOW DO YOU NOT FIGURE THIS OUT???? IT MAKES NO SENSE ITS AN OBVIOUS RESPONSE I CANT HELP BUT DO IT BUT YOU CAN JUST WALK AROUND ALL EXPOSED LIKE THAT AHAHAHAH WHAT A PERFECT HUMAN BEING YOU ARE.
Did you turn out ok
What did you end up with?
This is VERY accurate. Very few psychologists / therapists appear to be talking about this - in my own experience dealing with someone with a Covert NPD I have actuslly seen a very similar phenomenon ... person starts of as BPD and then either progress to NPD (esp. Covert type) or starts alternating between the two depending on different stressors.
I have seen this oscilation. Often with secondary antisocial. With a reduction in empathy. They have introjects which are fighting in their head w no resolution.
Wow!
@@edgreen8140 MY EX!
Makes sense
Because powerful men and women are Narcs! Some Malignant. Some sychopaths. Some Sociopaths. Some Sadistic.
Look at Epstein and Ghelain! Oh boy!
Its environmental! Either you are brought up from your parents who have these tendencies or ppl you meet!
Its absolutely a disturbing behavior!
Get out ASAP! Save your sanity!
No contact what so ever. Cut all ties!
(Edited for grammar)
Stay strong and safe! 💪♥️
Do your research! 📚
I stay clear away from dependent people. Narcissists thrive in that world of following, drama and immaturity. I love independent people. Narcissist are not independent at all.
They can appear to be
Based
Very good insight, checks out in my experience.
this can be very untrue actually. I know a guy highly narcissistic and lives off grid...alone only access float plane or boat. He is more independent than most.
Not sure where you got that idea from, because, while it may be true for some narcs, it certainly is not for all. It really depends on their upbringing and other experiences. You can't put them all into one bag. You clearly don't know what you speak of when you say they are not independent at all.
@angeliyah2879 they do appear that way at first. But if you look deeper they need constant validation from multiple people to boost their ego
This is one of the best descriptions I have ever heard. This video is 7ys old. And I've explored some of this material on YT for that long, and just found this.
This is evidence, that the YT algorithm is not very discerning. Soon, the most quality information will be entombed beneath generations of catchy hype and gibberish.
Ofc, it’s usually the most click baitsy stuff w the most views and recommendations
Hi. Ken Berg comes from psychoanalysis Theory and practice. And this type of scientific tradition has been ridiculed and vanished from the U.S. psychology field b😂cause it is not for standardization it works by a case by case investigation. Read Freud, Lacan, M. klein, Winnicott, etc. and of course Otto Kenberg. In contrast all other psychology from most universities will seem superficial, pro adaptive, standardized so to get people out to the system and work and consume their lives away as soon as possible from mental clinics or therapist office. I salute you from México. Good day!
YT is gaslighting us
It already, IS. ("G" dot commercial 'results' and the "follows you everywhere" online advertising... equally serve, to 'monetize' the compart- mental- ization... And BTW, the initial 'funding' by the CI+N$A "Intel Insiders" illustrates the introjective induced 'spitting' into mental "fractionations,' by "covert" Means and Way(s) of Deception(s). Mind, body and soul control, 101. ;-)
@@user_f1 Indeed... Intentional (and distractive) ISOLATION and an attempted: "dumbing- down," by the PTB's de$ign.
They need constant admiration and validation because of that emptiness. Just see what happens when you fail or refuse to feed their ego supply.
Most don't get anywhere near therapy BTW as convincing them that they're the problem and have a problem is one of many hurdles, insurmountable in many cases. Imagine being raised by someone like this. Some don't have to imagine.
This is absolutely true! Convincing the person that they are the problem is impossible in my case. 😢
They have a problem, but it can be explained that they suffered from extreme abusive, neglect, and trauma during childhood and their brain built, These defense mechanisms which is not their fault. A compassionate and supportive approach may help encourage more people to seek therapy. I know from my experience that there aren't enough supports in society for treatment of these mental illnesses and society has a responsibility if it wants to improve to fix these issues and view it as a mental health treatment issue.
@@dmacp6253 It may not be their fault what they have became, not my fault eighter, can't put up with their abuse.
@@SarahAnnUlloa-vo1iq They are not intentionally being abusive, but this is how they react to stress with maladaptive coping mechanisms which they developed during childhood to survive. However I agree with you that an untreated BPD is very damaging to get close to, but if they can be encouraged to seek therapy they will no longer be abusive in relationships, I know because I am a PWBPD that is getting treatment. What I suggest is not to blame them entirely for developing this disorder but protect your boundaries completely and encourage them to seek therapy, without this a healthy relationship or friendship will usually not work.
Therapy is likely to make things much worse.
Do you want to know why?
1. Narcissism is a secondary defense against the fragmenting of one's self-concept, one's concept of significant others, and the struggle between idealized and persecutory segments of experience.
2. Narcissism is a self-constructed pathological, grandiose, sense of self. This is constituted by ideal aspect of the self, ideal aspects of others as if one possessed them, and ideal aspirations of the self as if one achieved them. One's need of others meanwhile is denied and devalued.
3. A deep split between the idealization of self and a sense of victimhood from others come before the underlining borderline structure against which the narcissistic structure was a defense.
1. What is the first defense? What are the hypotheses regarding the self-fragmentation? (predispositions + environment)
2,. The notion of a 'Self-constructed sense of self' is a lot of responsibility to put on a baby/toddler's shoulders. I heard D. Diamond speak of some 'agency' in the baby, not quite totally a choice, but then what? This notion is perverse as it suggests that the baby would be somewhat of a pervert. I am an NPD. All throughout my childhood, I don't remember having seen different options. There was only one: survive. Yes, retrieval in autosufficiency. The word 'grandiose' is another misleading word. We don't feel great at all. We are on the survival mode.
3. The sense of victimhood from others - I would say from the world or even life - has a real explanation. The underlying BPD is not an explanation. Tell me if you feel like hearing me.
Please respect NPDs.
I am just providing a summary of what this gentlemen said in the video hahahaha - Also, no. I am not ever going to respect narcissist@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye
@@VideoMagician77 Yes, sorry
@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye my parents were NPD. The point is: no empath for anyone. Everything moves around them. And envy.
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye The root of NPD, as well as BPD ( as it seems, cause i only see now that its the same without the cope mechanisms) is no self esteem. NPD people have the maturity level of a 5 year old psychologists say, and beeing a victim of a narc since 18 years myself, i can confirm that.
BTW, there is one intersting anomaly with NPD amongst most disorders, - 80% of them are men. - That is due to feminist divorce rights, and its spreading more and more because single mother households are spreading more and more. CHildren get the most important "energies" from the same sex parent, - true for both sexes.
"My" narc had basicly a perfect life and a loving mother, - but no father at all. Only a cold, though non abusive, stepfather. You get your self esteem as a boy from your father, fathers are most important for boys from 5 years onwards.
Babies are not pervert, what is pervert is that someone who is on all other levels mature, intellect, body etc. is still in that immature state. And at its core its immaturity, experts might fight about if its trauma or immaturity, i say its more immaturity, cause, as said, a lot narcs dont have trauma in the literal sense.
I dont know what mechanism take place, but somehow the adult feels that hole in themselves in a way, it feels that something is badly missing, he isnt what he is supposed to be at all, and that is the difference to a toddler. For the toddler, this inner immaturity is normal. Its in line with everything else.
Unfortunately, there can be confusion and mistake when superficially evaluating personalities and behavior. Some people, due to trauma, lack of role models or simply being introverted choose to not be "social", tolerant and accepting of others and the behaviors they may each display and act out. Much like a dog that has been abused, many folk's decide it's not healthy or safe to risk interacting fully with the world. I have someone I call a friend who is very broken and has been a very long time. He most certainly qualifies for both diagnoses, has combat related ptsd, 35 years recovery in aa, and a long history of violence. I watch him struggle with life on so many levels and it is sad. Hearing where he came from brings clarity to why he is the way he is and being in his 70's, change to any sincere degree is not going to happen. They need our love and compassion, along with clear boundaries and understanding of what tolerable behavior and speak are and what is not.
Agreed.. However the lack of a Disney childhood and of "bad fortune" happens to the vast majority. Yes, this causes trauma but NOT Narcissistic traits. Recent finings have found its partly genetic.. Perhaps there has been a superficial assumption right here?
@@emmsue1053 The root cause is modest spiritual evolution.
I don’t feel sry at all for an NPD
Sick souls from hell
Choice, their choice
Not a mental illness
I had a narcissistic father who abused me so much I got ptsd. Yet I would never do the same on other people
@@julievalet2806 #metoo
Father emotional abuse, mother emotional and physical abuse..
Now I'm fully in isolation... I hate it but I can't face people... 2 years now I only ever communicate with shop assistants..
All the best *Crap Game* 🎉
This lines up with what I felt about an in-law a cousin married who is sociopathic and highly narcissistic. I always felt like he was shattered when young and all he could do was gather the pieces and jealously guard them. All of his behavior was to mask what had happened to him, even from himself.
Quite a few narcissists are Health professionals...One area never discussed .....Why...
Power. Control. Validation.
Constant power over others and endless supply of their grandiosity.
Maybe because all the whole systems are corrupt? Legal system failure to enforce accountability, social structures of a competitive world of 'who can be the biggest bully' wins. Enablers everywhere. Have been for a very long time.
They’re everywhere. Destroying and annihilating everything in their path
Search for self understanding and healing…
I think it all begins with the LACK OF SELF-REFLECTION with Narcs. There is healthy self-esteem and toxic self-esteem; the Narc's is TOXIC.
do narcissists love cocaine? sounds RIGHT up their alley
Makes sense. Hide any faults and keep it moving like nothing happened.
I have often speculated to myself that BPD and NPD are perhaps approximately the same thing, but that BPD folks still have hope and desire for deep connection with others, and are very vulnerable in that regard, while NPD folks have given up. Given up on the possibility of real connection, and shut down vulnerability. In other words: BPD minus hope.
This is amazing. I was just wondering why I seem to be becoming more narcissistic with each failed attempt to heal and find a healthy love relationship. I’m so disappointed and ashamed of myself that the happiness and well-being of others is becoming more and more painful, and my defenses are becoming stronger, such as wanting to bring others down because their joy makes me feel so bad about myself. Not sure what to do with this new information about myself other than accept it, try to protect others by making positive choices via staying aware of my past patterns and how they might play out in the present. So much of it has been unconscious while trying to be decent and do the right thing… the desperate need for connection and salvation from another makes manipulation an unconscious compulsion… and bad actions (being in a relationship you are t suited to, for example) are justified and rationalized away because the need is greater than one can bear.
I’m probably not a full blown narcissist since I desperately tried to love, tell the truth, and do right by the person but kept finding myself being deeply dysfunctional anyway. The more I tried to act in accordance with my values the more covert my selfishness became, rather than actually being selfless.
@@freetinkerer3878 🤗
Something to keep in mind too is that sometimes narcissistic people try to gaslight others into thinking they are the narcissistic ones (could be projection). It makes it more difficult in our journeys to figure out what's going on with ourselves.
If you haven't yet tried DBT, I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone 💛
I already thought the same. BPD is in the narcissism spectrum, too. Their reactions are born out of the ego, too.
@@freetinkerer3878thank you for sharing. Please don't let this vulnerability or self accountability go. It's definitely going to keep you in the side of the spectrum you want to be on. But please also don't forget to have compassion for yourself. The road to self forgiveness and ultimately accepting your true, inherent self worth is not easy or fun, but it's the most efficient way to heal yourself which is the only way to healthy relationships. You're certainly not alone in this! Wishing you the best on your journey ✨️
@freetinkerer3878 Jesus can heal every past hurt. I suspect npd and bpd dynamics in my family as I identified qith a lot of bpd traits and my husband has narcissistic behaviors. Jesus has changed my reactions radically towards my husband and helped me create boundaries and see what is true. Ask Jesus to come into the most painful or most recent memory and watch what he does. If he's not full of grace and truth it's a false Jesus. He is the way, the TRUTH, and the life. Clinging to truth has really changed how I hear accusations or even self talk.
This is by far the best definition I have ever heard about narcissism and its complexities.
Hey Rosie 🌹
There is a reason this is the best explanation. This man is actually an expert. This kind of thinking and treatment has been all but destroyed by managed care. I was trained this way. I am now a lawyer. Think about that. I do. Every darn day.
@@allisonandrews4719 - Thank you for your extremely sound reasoning ! 💐💐💐🎯
This is not a definition of narcissism. He's talking about the similarities between NPD and BPD, and how BPD often causes an individual to integrate their identity using narcissistic coping strategies. NOT ALL NARCISSISTS ARE LIKE THIS AND NOT ALL BPD PATIENTS ARE LIKE THIS. This is just a specific, very niche, theoretical discussion of how Narcissism can present itself in BPD, which is usually marked originally by low self esteem, self hatred, inability to control ones' own emotions, etc. He's saying that the strategies that BPD patients fall into will often cause them to develop narcissistic beliefs and behaviors.
He is describing a marriage that I was in for 10 years. She was at her best when she took meds for bipolar. She refused to take them. It was like the Vietnam war. She was very beautiful and intelligent. Never happy.
Tell me about it….. my ex was devastatingly beautiful, had a Doctorate, but was too ill to hold a job. I had one week of peace before she began creating mindless and needless drama and upsets. I sent her back to a single life, emotions uncontained and uncontainable. I had no idea her behaviour was a mental illness, until reading a newspaper article half a decade later…… my having ascribed her conduct as inexplicably bad female behaviour, Einstein having said the female mind was a complete mystery to him.
Identifying poor mental health should be part of all national school curriculums.
They usually are never happy. Sorry brother you had to go through all that
@@perarduaadastra873my wife is a doctor and does this but to a lower much lower degree, maybe it's a spectrum all women are on
@@perarduaadastra873 I think you're on to something... emotional self care should be a required course to be honest.
@@Prettynikki815 Meditation & Mindfulness.
What my narcissistic ex- husband said after I gave him so many chances ” You'll never find anyone as attractive as me who treats you as well as I do"
The delusion is insane. They truly live in a fantasy world where they are the best thing ever without any fault
All of them said that.
Should have said "There's 8 billion people on earth, get over yourself" 😂
😂 mine told me ‘nobody could love you as much as I do’ which in surface sounds romantic but what he really meant is that I’m so below him that he can’t imagine someone who’d even deal and put up like he is cos he’s sooo much better in every way in his mind
I am sad for the child within, and have cut off all contact with the outside adult.
yes......
It’s hard
I have learned how to maneuver this by following a single rule: in every instance, forgive everyone, deny myself the right to have opinions, and never talk to people about how their actions affect me. While that sounds counter to healing, the alternative is unthinkable, which is me being gently honest with people about how their behaviors affect me, and them acting like I am insane. As painful as that is for someone with borderline, you would rather take all the blame every time and forgive than feel the pain of holding anger in your heart towards a world that will never understand.
I was swinging into narcissism when I started this technique, and seven years later I have healed all of my relationships and some are even better than before. I also have really good days, but when it is hell it is hell and I have to both maneuver and endure it alone, and that is really hard.
Can you explain more how that „swinging into narcissism“ played out? „Forgive everyone, deny myself“ does not sound narcissistic at all … ?!
this sounds more like a coping mechanism for psychopathy
@mistsister , you are on to something ..you just sparked a thing In me. I for one all my life , I have been plagued with narcissistic relationships. My dad is a covert, my mom is malignant, and I've had kids with 3. I feel like a loner in the world.
The only cures: distance and death.
It's hard hearing this when you have an NPD. For most of the time you live in this narcistic shell go to psychotherapy try to be sympathaized all the time, lie all the time, hope that everybody would take care of me, not taking any responsibility of myself, drop fault on everybody else. And then when you are self-concious enough and did a lot of emotional-harm to others you realize how awful person you are and then you sit with yourself with disgust.
how does one move past doing harm to others and get rid of their disgust? Is the surpass of guilt worse than having disgust to begin with?
@@sarahm8775 It's a long process, acting in an unconscious way for so long, and then coming into awareness can be very painful, it's like mental blindness. I got my jolt two years ago and while it's given me clarity, it also feels very vulnerable and daunting at times. We have to come to terms with the reality that our egos are built on sand and we've been masking a deep wound for decades.
I think this happened to my father 6 months or so before his death. He realized he had been so wrong over most.of his life. He told my aunt, his sister, "I'm so ashamed."
I wished for him to have self-insight most of my life, but when I hear about this, I almost wish he hadn't seen this. I think some narcissists are virtually lost souls teetering on the brink of an abyss.
NPD seems to me like terminator defensive mode. If that's your normal realizing the issues and moral compromises caused by white knuckling it through life seems like part of the process. I see it as a fear based mindset, but there are other ways to live and think. These ways may allow you to experience authentic happiness. Its a mountain to climb though and because of the 'closed off' nature of those with this disorder I think the will to change has to come from within.
So stop doing all that.
Wow.
A genius .
Thank you for posting .
And less than four minutes.
The ability to describe everything he has described in this amount of time with such clarity is astounding.
I thought the same thing.
I think it's potentially dangerous Freudian psychoanalytical hogwash about "structures" and "underlying structures" he isn't able to demonstrate exist. What psychotherapist in their right mind thinks it's a good idea to engage in a long term superiority struggle with a patient?
Why is he a genius? Because he has legitimised your victimhood in the best possible way?
@@TheHeinrichSymposium Be careful, they're cultists who still believe Freudian psychotherapy is valid science. If you read Otto Kernberg's wikipedia page you'll notice how his TFP practices are described, his therapy is "intended" for BPO patients provided they don't "resist treatment" which makes them "unsuitable" for this therapy. The therapy is based on a "hypothesized mechanisms of change" even other psychotherapists disagree on, let alone serious psychologist who don't dabble in archaeic unfalsifiable theories about the self.
Let’s remember that although narcissism is ruthless, it’s also an illness. Whilst we should protect ourselves from them, we should also try to cultivate compassion for them. We all have problems, some we can’t control. People with NPD are no different 🙏🏼
I mean they kinda are. There’s a difference between being depressed or anxious to your self and narcissistic ruining others lives knowingly.
Def got empathy but they’re not the same. Like psychopaths/sociopaths aren’t the same.
It's hard to have compassion for a lifetime abuser. I understand, but I only discovered this at age 72, a year ago. I'm smothered in rage, but getting counseling. I need relief... every journey begins with the first step... oh, to be at peace.
An illness? No, its a behavior they choose to have. Its called free will. You can have compassion but from far. You thinking like that is going to get you hurt or six feet deep. These people are not normal human beings. Is like saying we need to cultivate compassion for Hitler or Satan.
If they would only be open to help like this... it needs to be available but most are only forced to use that or go in therapy after they've done something seriously bad. Before that, why would they seek out help?
@@Thomas-pq4ysfor what you have been through, you decide for yourself who you will have compassion for. I would treat the compassion for narcissists line as a general though, not for the victims of said abusers. I think it is healthy to have compassion, but not if it directly crosses your own feelings. If you still want to give compassion, then I would first make sure you are healed and properly ready to give compassion, on your terms.
Good luck out there, chief
Very spot on. The couple of people whom I have dealt with who were diagnosed with NPD, were stealing my personality traits lol! As in, I noticed as time went on, they became more and more like me, saying and doing things I'd do. It was rather creepy.
I have NPD and this is something I actually do, I think it's rather cool. I wanted to say though, that we aren't just creeps, we are fckn unhappy damaged people that need help.
@@sk3ptik0s49 BPD here. *sigh* it's hell isn't it. On top of that beneath the rage is pure unadulterated misery. I know because BPD is akin to half a narcissist, the internal workings are similar to (theorized) narcissism and or psychopathy. If you can take that mask off though, at first it hurts, but slowly life gets better. You can have a genuine relationship and real friends too. The pain of taking off the mask/our camo is well worth the sacrifice for feeling better everyday.
@@WarriorHitomi Hey there. So how do you take the mask off? And how do you identify the mask? My most visible problem is vulnerability to criticism, banter, etc (associated to vivid memories of every major humiliation) and that inner rage is a constant. I'm a covert narc, which is worse than a grandiose, at least for the individual. My grandma is a massive overt narc and she even falsifies memories of people abandoning her (due to being verbally abusive) in favour of it being their fault, and therefore seems blissfully unaware of how people actually see her. But she does seem lonely and bitter, it's just lacking that acute pain from confronting who she is, that torments a vulnerable narc, which isn't as good at deluding himself.
@@sk3ptik0s49 I might need sometime to reflect on that. I'll get back to you on this. But it in part has to do with what Sam Vaknin calls hitting "Rock bottom"
If you're truly NPD, if you've been diagnosed as such, you appear to have some insight that might help you identify the mask and take it off. Now, I'm no licensed therapist, but I've been attempting to understand narcissism because I've dealt with someone who I believe to have narcissistic tendencies and I also have some narcissistic tendencies of my own (I don't think I ever actually had NPD, though), and I believe I've come across to some interesting conclusions. Keep in mind that this only my own point of view and that I'm a layman.
I view narcissism as a yearning for unconditional love and acceptance. Narcissists have grown to believe that love is something that you earn for accomplishing something special or for having a special set of abilities, rather than something that you get just for being. In the narcissistic worldview, love is conditional. Maybe you've grown being constantly harshly criticized by the smallest mistake, and you've grown to feel like the only way to protect yourself is to be superior to other people, to be perfect. Maybe you've grown being constantly praised and no one ever set a boundary with you, and now when someone tries to do so you feel threatned and unloved. Though setting boundaries can be an act of love, because that can be the only thing that helps someone grow.
Because a narcissist believes that love is conditional, and they need to be perfect to be worthy of it, it can be really hard to take off the mask and see truth inside of you, because that truth can be horrible and really difficult to look at! Because you will just start hating yourself and feeling like you aren't worthy of love. Narcissists deny and twist reality because they can't deal with the truth of who they are, since they were never taught unconditional love for themselves.
As such, I believe that the only way to identify and take off the mask and start healing yourself is to first learn to accept and love yourself for who you are right now. It is that acceptance that will allow you to have insight into yourself, and allow you to grow. You are worthy of love. Not because you have some special ability, not because you are superior to others, but because you are a human being. And you could change everything about you and still be worthy of the same unconditional love. It is ironic that is it only once you accept and love yourself for who you are, unconditionally, that you can change yourself, and start to develop empathy for other people.
I don't know if it makes sense to you. It makes sense to me. So I hope it helps. I wish you well.
It’s a process of adaption to an impossibly painful situation, where the pain, anger and loss is well buried and only the protective shell is visible to both the sufferer and the wider world.
It's an unsound adaptation. They have the same problems everyone else has, but choose to respond in a very selfish and egotistical way.
@@dgontar While the challenges they face may be little different from others, the resources they possess to manage and adapt are limited, immature and undeveloped. This linked to a lack of self awareness there is little hope of them gaining agency and being able to adapt and grow. To class this as simply selfish and egotistic is to misunderstand the forces and ethology of the condition.
Good point, narcissists are usually raised by narcissistic parents, which they didn't get to 'choose'.
So tell me what the empathy,social anxiety is?Why i chose empathy not narciss.. We all get trauma in life
@@dgontar 100%
I wish every blogger and pyschologist would watch this clip before writing their next clickbait "How to protect yourself from the big bad narcissist" post. It's a pathology, not strategy.
It's both. Clearly it's a pathology; the part that makes it appear as, and effectively function as, a strategy is the lying, and the cunning involved in making sure that others carry the can for them in pretty much every way, especially emotionally. Also, the gaslighting. All that requires some sort of thought on the narcissist's part.
@@sugarfree1894 Its subconsciously programmed/conditioning as a defense/strategy and not aware of its implications all the time...People think narcissist plan up these crazy schemes to hurt people intentionally all the time but in reality it is a projection of their flawless selves onto others and everyone that is not them doesn't match up to their criteria (real or not). This is where the defense/offense sparks internally to show superiority. Some narcissist are aware/introspective but most are not of their actions.
@@tone3560 Plenty of data comes in to bring awareness of the effects of their actions. There is a kind of forcefield that stops it mattering to them. Other people don't matter to them. If that is an expression of how little they matter to themselves, and possible evidence of how little they mattered during those crucial developmental years, so be it. The result is pain.
In the eternal discussion of whether they know what they're doing or not, there is no good upshot: if they know they're doing it, they're dangerous. If they don't know they're doing it, they're dangerous. There's no redemptive answer. The only redemption is change. If redemption is what they want - but I think rather they just want the freedom to do as they please without consequence.
@@sugarfree1894 There is more dialogue from people that "know" narcissist....then dialogue coming from a narcissist themselves on why they do what they do...and unfortunately their is a massive spectrum of pathological narcissism and we all fall on it from healthy to full blown NPD.
@@tone3560 You're right. In my experience, a narcissist does what they do for the same reasons as everyone - because it feels right. I've spent many years trying to come to terms with the effects of narcissism in my own life, I'm beginning to give up on trying to come to some resolution. Best wishes to you :)
I can't wait until I'm educated enough to follow what guys like this are saying!
You are the most rational person in the comments that I have seen so far. Everyone here is just watching a small snippet of a much longer documentary project about Borderline Personality Disorder, and everyone here is completely ignoring or misunderstanding what he is saying and think that he is purely talking about narcissistic personality disorder. He's talking about the way that people with BPD cope with their symptoms, and that often leads to narcissistic thoughts and behaviors.
The internet has many negative soul destroying attractions. That being said, it also contains a wealth of valuable and soul enriching
information. If I watch a post that I can't grasp I no longer denigrate myself but simply move on to something that I CAN understand. We have available to us now, all of the content of the greatest thinkers past and present. We can listen to lectures by university professors which would cost us a fortune to attend in person; the beauty of that is the ability to listen again and again.
It helps to understand when you are related to one
@@lynnfisher3037Only now, nobody will ever be able to separate fact from fiction. The Internet ruined the human experience.
Narcissism is mostly used to mean "person I don't like" nowadays. Which is bad because real narcissism is still out there and getting harder to talk about.
I was raised by a Perverse-Narcissistic mother. I am 39 years old and now and I have only just recently cut contact with her and started to process the vast amount of ways in which she has wounded and twisted me. She has also done a great deal of damage to my Dad, as well as severely tainted my own perception of and relationship with him.
I really wish there was a way for her to "come back" and be the mother I never had, but as a close friend told me, if they acknowledge their wrongdoing, to them it means they are a monster. And that is unacceptable to them.
Unfortunately I think my mother will die alone and angry, unable to gain any sort of perspective.
LET’S HERE NOW HOW BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER IS SO OFTEN DIAGNOSED IN WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN /ARE BEING ABUSED BY NARCISSITIC MEN.
I’d say that’s 100 percent what happened to me
This is the most astute, and at the same time, most humane and respectful (it doesn't popularize or treat the audience as kids) encapsulations of narcissistic personality that I have ever listened to.
As a vulnerable NPD (who knows a lot and doesn't go by self-serving narratives), I thank you dearly.
I reccomend you dr Daniel Fox on CZcams
Or better yet - prevention - i.e. good parenting.
Parenting (infant and childhood development) is not really taken seriously.
This💯💯💯
That's exactly why there are so many messed up people. They weren't parented properly because it's not valued by our society to be, say, a good, devoted mother. You're supposed to have it all but in reality women cut corners, normally at their kids expense because having a career is just too demanding.
I am an NPD vulnerable (the one usually described here). The first year of life and inborn factors seem to play the most part. A message to mothers: smile to the baby.
NPD and BPD are 2 Very different personality disorders. They can overlap however. But not everyone with BPD has NPD.
H’mm, yes, it’s quite sad to think about now. I was married to a person like that. I didn’t understand it back then, but I was aware that it was coming from her life as a child. For a time I thought my strength and the way I loved would bring us out into a time when we could be comfortable and harmonious with each other. Thank each other for getting through the struggles and maybe laugh off and forgive all the upsets. I’m happy and comfortable with my own company now, It troubles me to think of someone living in a mind like that. When you’re not bearing the brunt of it and when you realise you can’t help them or resolve anything, it’s a tragedy that you know is unfolding wherever they are.
Honestly, this whole narrative sounds exactly like something I could have written, if I'd had the words... thank you for doing it.
@str8inPilot I can appreciate your conclusion. I am still married to one. It's so difficult and draining.
I’m going through a divorce now. I loved him to pieces but I destroyed myself and my children trying to be there. There was never any progress. He had so much anger and rage, too. I’m left with so many questions.
@@fambam5128My marriage ended about 14 years ago. I had never heard of NPD and BPD. I had many dealings with my ex-wife over the years since, as we raised our children in a week and week about, shared custody arrangement. With the wonders of CZcams and with children being so much more emotionally intelligent these days, I have managed to build a better picture of what we have been dealing with all these years. I liked this video by Otto Koenberg because it treats the Narcissist (person) with the same vulnerability that we all have. Richard Branson is the other Psychologist that does a good explanation of how the experiences of the child can create the difficult or damaged adult. The hardest thing for me to learn has been that love and kindness is not going to heal or repair anything in them. My strategy is to keep my distance from my ex and save the love and kindness for my children. My children are not completely un-scathed but at least they know how to keep their mother at bay, and they can talk calmly and get support with me, no matter what is happening in their lives.
Well said, I feel sorry for the wounded child inside that attracts so much drama, I would have nightmares of trying to save her from a burning building but the flames would get unbearable and I had to leave
Just want to add: BPD (bipolar disorder) is the modern day term for Freud’s “Hysteria.” 3/4 of people who diagnosed with hysteria back in the day were women who had little to no autonomy or sovereignty over their lives. Same with BPD: most diagnoses are women who have been severely abused. I see the pattern in my own family. My dad’s mom had BPD, and my dad, as a result, became a narcissist. My dad then severely abused my sister, who was diagnosed with BPD. It’s a biscuits cycle. And the psychological “industry” is interested in making money on dispensing numbing medication that might mask the symptoms but don’t actually address any root causes. How can a woman take care of her child if she is not taken care of? How can a child who wasn’t properly taken care of grow up and learn how to take care of a child when they are too busy trying to give themselves the care they never had?
BPD is borderline personality disorder. Often confused with BP (bipolar disorder). But they are two very different conditions.
Bipolar disorder used to be called Manic depression
He was not referring to bipolar disorder but to BPD which is a close association to narcissism. Borderline personality disorder.
@@JoOrtiz09 he may be a little confused, but he's got the right idea
Very astute point. My ex-husband is an arrogant narcissist. His mother was bipolar and killed herself when my husband was around 14. 15. He never dealt with it, but blamed me for everything all through our marriage. I walked on eggshells and gave him all my love and patience, to no avail. I sublimated my desires and dreams for his comfort. Terrible cycle.😢
I have been trying to absorb Dr Kernberg's wisdom for the past 27 years. As I get older, he just keeps gettin' smarter :)
Makes total sense! I always regarded it as a defence mechanism...controlling others out of fear of being controlled...but impossible to live with nonetheless 😢
Sam Vaknin “ the narcissist is both a sadist AND a masochist”
Bingo this! I'm a narcissist and I agree.
Sadist is always a masochists, as its the projected rejected self that is attacked. A sadists simply recognize himself in the other, and attacks it. Also, do not waste time with Sam Vaknin, hes is a hack. Read books by real professionals, like Otto Kernberg.
@@Nobody-Nowhere Sam Vaknin has been an authority on Narcissism for over 25 years. Have you actually read his work ?
The only hack here is you mate.
@@andreaseliades6587 No he has not :) Why isn't he working in the field then, if he is suchs an expert? The fact that he constantly repeats it (and that he has an IQ of 190), should maybe set some alarms off. How many papers has he published? Have your read his paper about his "cold therapy" ? Published in open non peer reviewed platform.
I much rather read actual experts than some youtube guru claiming to be the world's leading expert while blocking everyone who dares to disagree with the contradicting nonsense he spews.
@@andreaseliades6587 The thing is, he is exactly like every other youtube guru. He caters to the victim community, validating them with their victimhood status. Just to get people like you to validate his self image as world leading authority.
And here is a question, after reading his books and watching the endless videos he puts out. Can you now explain what narcissism is? Do you understand it?
And have you ever read any actual real expert, like Kernberg for example? Or are you just obsessing about Sam Vaknin?
We're all on the spectrum of every diagnosis in the DSM-V. However, I hear the term "narcissist" thown around rather loosely these days. For example, it seems that anyone who breaks-up with their partner is a narcissist, which is based on the viewpoint of the person who was on the receiving end of the break-up. Not true, folks! Not everyone that can't stand you is a narcissist. Sometimes, we need to look internally to save ourselves from our future thoughts and behaviors. Emotional dysregulation is the biggest problem for most neurotypical people.
Yes. It's always the other person.
Yes real intelligence is without bias.
The most rational comment I have found in such a long time when my curious nature comes across videos as such. Note the words you use “Emotional dysregulation” which is exactly caused due to underlying trauma. For some people who are very unaware of themselves - it will manifest really bad. So I wouldn’t call them narcissistic humans, I would just call them as I view them now - very broken people. I think other people need to stop using mental health buzzwords and start seeing things as they are and focus on what they can do better themselves. We are all responsible for our own thoughts and feelings - but it is definitely more than ok to talk about them and find solutions.
Couldn’t help but put my 2 cents there lol.
This is why I always feel sorry for narcissists. They’re broken. This is the most genius video on the internet now.
Cut and dried and well defined. Now you can sleep peacefully. As long as the broken don't break into your house.
Very good, but surely very few narcissists enter therapy unless they've had some kind of serious breakdown, mental or otherwise.
Most are just fine all the time, however much damage they inflict on others.
I am one, in case you feel like making sure you are right.
I choose peace! I don’t believe that I am this diagnosis if I enjoy NOT being around people! I know I’m far from perfect! I’ve been a poor judge of character and need to protect myself from others!
I could never really decide if he was BPD or npd because I'm quite sure PTSD plays a huge part. I love mine, so much, and believe that they can be healed, but I just don't have it in me anymore to wait around for the day it Dawn's on him what and why he is the way he is
They CANT!
Thank you for being one of the few that treats these people like human beings, because that's what they are. It's not their fault that they're Borderline or have NPD. That doesn't excuse the abuse they brought into people's lives, but that also doesn't disqualify them from a better future. These people are NOT doomed. They are NOT beyond help. The problem is that we don't know how to cure them. That's not the same thing as saying "they're fucked; there's absolutely nothing we can do", which a lot of people faslely assume is the case. But there are promising lines of research that I believe will one day culminate in a cure, and if not, then at least with therapeutic methods which will substantially improve their quality of living, as well as the lives of the people who love them and want what's best for the Narc or Borderline. Regarding these two disorders as different manifestations of the same underlying issue shows that although progress is slow, our understanding of these conditions is advancing. There are researchers in London (I believe, or somewhere in Britain) that are conducting clinical trials using psychedelics to treat Narcissistic Personality Disorder specifically, which I suspect will help to treat those with BPD as well.
Please keep the hope alive, so that one day we can have a world where no disorder is "incurable." A world with less narcissism and Borderline traits begins with the belief that they can be saved.
Just run, You are wasting your best years. You're gonna end up having to end it anyway, It never really started. Please listen, I wish I had known what I know now and, you actually know and you're staying?
Please, & I know it's gonna take time for you to get mentally prepared to leave, just do it and get it over with.
You can't find someone else, (You deserve someone who loves you back)...but You can't find someone else as long as you're wasting your time with him, wasting Your best years while you're in your prime.
IF only, I could go back and do it all over again.
You don't know how lucky you are that you have a chance to leave now,
and you're not taking it.
Knaw off your leg and run.
Brilliant. We hear so much about how NPD presents but so little about what fuels it. The idea that it is a way for BPD to "organise" itself makes a lot of sense.
Very good observation and explanation. Very often there is an inner sense of utter insecurity and worthlessness in the narcissist, that they are trying to overcome by grandiosity. They need constant affirmation of that grandiosity, otherwise they are threatened by fragmentation and by implosion of the self.
Finally I'm hearing something that makes sense of my mother's behavior. I'm so thankful I found this explanation of Dr. Kernberg's. Six decades of this woman. I'm so tired.
I emotionally abandoned mine 6 months ago. She is 75. I don't feel guilty. I have a right to live.
@@Keys7 you do. I don't blame you. It's very hard dealing with these people. My mom has no earthly idea how fortunate she is to have me. My sister doesn't care. I've resigned myself to it. She's 92 tomorrow. I have no idea how long caretaking this person will last. I wish you the best honey.
Yep! A parent with NPD is very tiring and in some cases much harder to walk away from than if it a spouse with NPD although the latter becomes difficult too if you have children.
How are you still alive? 3 years raked the soul from my body.
@@johnnycassell4338 sometimes I wonder. 😐
This video is so important. If you have a schizoid core, a "black hole", you are keen on assuming any structure depending on the situation, any momentary combination that works. It may vary depending on age, or the people you have around, the hierarchy, the power you have in that moment. Therapist should keep in mind that what they see is not a pool but a river.
Nice analysis. The video is indeed important. Could you further analyse the "black hole" concept ? Thanks
A person who wonders if they have NPD usually doesnt have, if they care enough to know it may be because they have been humbled or they are just really not NPD. Honestly, we could associate symptoms but a lot of disorders associates with narcissm in general. Bpd can have part of narcissism but not only, some Bpd patients are very faraway from being narcissist becaust they care too much of others. Dont generalize everything on one thought, there are categories of that. As you dont want to be unfairly accused, refrain from doing to another unless validated by professionals. Keep an open mind.
Video was uploaded 7 years ago, which is when my relationship with a girl with BPD ended. She, herself, told me that she has BPD, I wasn't sure what it meant, as I was blinded by foolish and "crazy love". The break-up was impossible for me to understand. It took me almost 2 years to come out of the guilt I felt and it only happened when I started reading about BPD. That relationship left a strong mark on my emotional and mental strengths.
Listening to this explanation is incredibly important for people who live with someone who has BPD.
Was she addicted to substances? If not, she's just a person with a little more anxiety and alertness. BPD is actually CPTSD and it is completely curable in almost all patients with 10 years or more of remission. However, if she was misdiagnosed and is in fact a covert narcissist, then you should have run as fast and as far as possible.
Yep same here. Ex was a BPD girl who got addicted to heroin and ruined her life by wanting to constantly rebel from her parents who were trying to take care of her disorder even until she was like 27 years old and after she finally stopped taking heroin and all that, and she still treated them like shit no matter what they did for her. She basically manipulated me into a relationship by trying to kill herself in front of me and then drugging me with benzos while I had been drinking earlier and then raped me. and I kind of just went along with it because I felt like I owed her something and just got ensnared. I am autistic and didn't know how to defend myself from people like this. And then eventually she just broke up with me because she decided to do the BPD 'splitting' thing in her mind where suddenly she took me off the pedestal and thought of me as the worst person ever and started bad mouthing me to everyone.
@@angelinag4116 no this is not true. not all BPD Is CPTSD and BPD is basically untreatable until you get into your 40s-50s when your emotional instability finally starts waning
@@burtdanams4426 In this case, the consequences are from drug addiction, not BPD. BPD can only be the primary reason that pushed you to start using drugs. I have never taken drugs, drunk or smoked in my life because I knew I might not have any brakes, my life is too hard to start playing with that. I think, in your friends case, it also some level of possession, involvement in evil things. After all, you avoid such people anyway, they are drug addicts, emo, listen to bad music, have earrings, spiked bracelets and so on. What's inside is outside.
By "I have never taken drugs, drunk or smoked" I mean that I have always been extremely careful with that stuff.
Lack of self love which leads to anything else like this or extreme sporting or extreme career needs or extreme caring for others...it's all lack of self love ❤
They seem to be walking ironies. Delusions of self worth seems to be a facade to hide the narcissist's absolute empty true nature. How does one value life simultaneously allowing these beings to deplete the very essence of humanity? “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke
@CB Snow late reply....there comes a point where you can't take the lies, manipulations and abuse anymore..you can try to be patient and love unconditionally all you want, but they will end up taking your soul, then dumping you like a piece of trash. Or you end up standing up for yourself and then it becomes a constant battle of power..there is no happy outcome with these people.
Truth in many situations. You can be compassionate all you want and still feel a glitch, something is missing.
I suffer with BPD and let me just say……it’s horrible. I’m constantly in fear of being abandoned, not included, not wanted etc. when I read peoples comments on what’s it’s like living with people like me, it breaks me a more each time. I’m so so very sorry to all my family, I don’t mean to hurt anyone honestly I don’t.
I don’t have a partner or children because I know it’s not fair for anyone to have to put up with me. Please remember we’re hurting too
I couldnt agree more. But the co-pathologies and the endless variations and degrees each pathology has an effect is incredible. I knew BOD and narcissism are common together but stated as this video does makes great sense. Its the pathological neglect that creates the BPD and narcisssim is the minds response to feeling like you no longer exist.
Grest video.
Translation: Some people are just self-centered jerks.
Some people are black holes, consuming everything around them while feeling empty and needing to suck in and destroy even more.
And EVIL 😈
I worked with a jerk but he wasn’t a narcissist. A narcissist is a whole different ball game.
The jerk and I got into many arguments but, there was an underlying kinda respect for each other. Why? Because there were over 400 employees where I worked and there were those trying to ‘climb the ladder’ with false reports on others or filing reports for somebody saying something that’s not “politically correct” and all that. We were both “old school” and were secure in the fact that no matter what was said, we would never report each other. There’s a big difference between a jerk and a narcissist.
@@shelleyg218 Not all jerks are narcissists but all narcissists are jerks. Where did I say or even imply anything else, Mr. Straw Man?
Why are you calling me names? I was just clarifying something. And you just wrote “not all jerks are narcissists but all narcissists are jerks.”
I agree with you. That was the meaning behind my post.
I have no idea why you’re cocky about a comment that says the same thing but in a different way.
So worried I fit into this category. I fear hurting the people I love the most - pushing them away with my behaviour - my husband who I don’t deserve and my beautiful children. I need to change but don’t know how?! I find myself wishing I was someone else. Lately, these past few years, I’ve started to hate myself. My moods frustrate me. I anger quickly and am impulsive with my emotional states. I wish there were a magic pill. Am I really horrible and evil? I wish everyday I hope not. I fear seeking professional help for what they might say to me.
Great info thanks. I was starting to think that grandiose NPD is a result of splitting permanently to the “good” self, whereas in BPD there’s vacillation between the good and bad self image resulting in lack of stable self concept. This confirms that idea; it makes a lot of sense that NPD would be conceptualised as a very rigid defence against underlying BPD. I feel deep pity for those suffering, and, though I’m not sure if that counts as proper empathy, I believe this understanding at least opens the door to compassion.
I think borderline is a pattern mismatch in amygdala and borderline percieves many unimportant things as thread and the signal doesn't go into PFC first, but goes into reptilian brain so they have "reptilian" reactions to threads that are not threads and they can't control it as amygdala wrongly pattern match and doesn't give them chance to make decision. There can be a whole personality built around reptilian functioning that doesn't have anything to do with PFC, very visible in borderlines when they switch. Narcissism is something different. Narcissists are delusional, pretty stable, but can be sadistic and very cold and manipulative. Narcissists can have a shkrinked amygdala (where borderlines not) and therefore narcissism is more similar to psychopathy than BPD.
That’s the trouble here, the splitting. In BPD one forgets they can be both because inherently all humans are both good and bad. All humans make mistakes but BPD makes one keep track as if it’s a list of all disappointments one has acquired in relationships, work, life etc. they can’t seem to forgive themselves of take the appropriate steps of full responsibility. Naturally I know it’s shame, learn to forgive self, acknowledge it’s was wrong to do something and move forward. The denial and simmering in shame rather than learn and motivate self to do better and keep growing drives me nuts. I know it’s not their fault, but you just want to say Hey! You’re going to be okay, ya know? But they hear. “Hey! There’s something wrong with you” and now we are back to the shame and sadness festering with self gratification to subdue the agony of lack of self and self esteem never moving forward only dwelling on the past.
@@TomeRodrigo i think so i also have body dysmorphia and i heard that applies
@@pennylanekane you are correct my brain keeps track of every past threat every negative word interaction every rejection, i can get triggered by seeing someone from the past going by old places etc....
So basically you can't even blame most of them for ruining their lives lives. They were sick coming and going. Great. I guess one silver lining is once you understand you can accept the unacceptable and move on. Life is short.
Best description ever.!! Share it with everybody!
A salesperson without a product.
I agree. Alongside, parallel to narcissistic symptoms is always BPD. Great analysis.
Thank you for making this video Dr Kernberg! You have been so instrumental in the field of NPD and I thank you for all your hard work.
If there is no therapist for the BPD, these same symptoms (emotions) are exhibited towards a bullied sibling, for example.
Like my brother did to me for fifty years.
He can enjoy his dotage without his sister in the picture.
Or scapegoat child. I was the family scapegoat my whole life. Even in college when I majored in STEM, my brother was like “why do you have to major in something that makes me look bad?” My family is insane.
You’re absolutely incorrect!! DBT has shown to be quite effective.
@@Sweetsoul717 I think she means in lieu of a therapist
@Sweetsoul717 Yes, there are reports of this being the choice treatment in recent times.
my mom has BPD and NPD. it’s so confusing. she has lost every single relationship she ever had through her abuse (that is the result of these mental conditions). i’m her youngest child. i’m the only one who has any hope left.
The abuse in both cases is usually on the partner. I don't really get how she lost her friends. Like coud you explaiin why they would distance themselves?
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye you obviously are @duck bee_custard's mama, in order to make such a observation & question her🤣
@@selfesteem3447 You are a bit like me, I see.
Give up hope
It's a choice they make...some people turn into monsters when abused some turn dark and cruel like NPD
WOW! Never heard it explained so accurately and easy to understand before...
It's a defence against bullying and it's is definitely a defence mechanism
I heard BPD described as a failed NPD, but it seems the breaking down of grandiosity in BPD may be a stage in recovery.
Yeah, narcissism can be thought of as a "higher" stage of defense mechanisms. Those with BPD fail to progress to that stage and are in that sense "failed narcissists". BPD is sort of more raw in a way and hence why it's somewhat treatable while NPD is an extra layer of defenses on top of that which is extremely hard for therapists to break through, hence why it's considered more or less untreatable (yet). The narcissists themselves are failed psychopaths because they too fail to progress to the next stage of defense mechanisms i.e. ASPD.
@@faisalxd369 Yes I am one. Not sure you know what that layer is though.
It's vaknin who copies from Kerberg on a bad misogynic day and presents things the other way round to express his contempt towards those self-trashing BPDs he despises and desires.
As I observe it, BPD is the former step of NPD. The still ongoing personal inner fight between the good and evil and NPD is the step further where the person has chosen the evil part.
@@oOIIIMIIIOo exactly
I read his books in grad school. He understands these two Axis 2 disorders ver well.
Tired of being grouped with the people who violated me as a child. I had no choice, I developed BPD as a result of an adult violating me and blaming me for his actions. No, BPD is not the same as any other disorder.
Excellent content. We're so lucky to be hearing from one of the greats...and founders.
A narcissist may not be a psychopath, but a psychopath is always a narcissist!
Psychopaths are born ,not made. Narcissists are made in their first couple of years of life.
@@lindatullos9430 So why are psychopaths born into families with narcissistic parents and grandparents? Maybe because it is an intergenerational disorder/trauma? Ted Bundy is a narcissist and a psychopath. I know hot to spot a narcissist. His childhood was horrible. In his early childhood photos, I can already see his narcissistic mental disorder, whether inherited or acquired through child abuse. His grandmother and mother were thrown down the stairs by a narcissistic grandfather and the child saw it. His grandfather was addicted to pornography. I wonder if Bundy was molested. It is not clear why some, even more traumatized children, do not become narcissists or psychopaths, while others do.
Source ?@@lindatullos9430
Wrong
@@lindatullos9430 Not sure, actually science has different opinions on that. I personally know full blown psychopaths that are made (child trauma) and one that is on the endge of beeing a psychopath or having antisocial personality disorder and its the same. An abusive father and the 2nd no father at all (the root cause for 80% of the narc`s beeing men)
Very important! This is breakthrough info. My understanding is that narcissism is a person trying to address the underlying b cluster problem. It’s the person trying to cope with the inner turmoil! This means narcissism is a human trying to ask for help
I knew deep down that I had to pity DJ Trump
"trying to ask for help" - That's what I thought too. It kept in that hell way too long and finally I realized I could not help in any way. You just have to go "no contact" and regain your own mentality. They want help but can't accept it.
@@xtubalnet it’s true what you say. But it’s a breakthrough because we now understand the cause of narcissism (above the behaviour). & now that’s there’s an underdog what it is; solutions to address/ heal the disorder will finally befound
@@katehamilton7240I wouldn't pity any of them. Clinton, Biden, and Bush senior were all worse than ol Trump. Can't stand how people fall for liking the person on their team and pretending he isn't evil while doing the exact opposite with the other. Politics and party loyalty really show how unintelligent voters are. Anytime, someone comments about one particular president, it is obvious they have succumb to this system and that they have a two digit IQ.
Thank you ! We are all human
"outsourcing" and projecting all your traits and "weaknesses" that you do not want to feel and have and see in yourself, so that you are amazing and others are inferior to you. Thus securing the own survival but having no one on eye level and no one to love. How sad-and how dangerous.
Thank you, I could listen to Kernbeg dispense his wisdom every day; he paints a vivid picture of the subject matter and the experiences of those who are paired with it.
What do you call wisdom: contempt?
I always get a creepy feeling when one human defines another and talks about them as they do this, they do that, themselves completely distanced of the person they speak about and dehumanising another human being 😢
For real
Facts
He is simply stating objective facts about a person’s personality and behavior, so that the rest of us may be aware of their pathology. He was rather empathetic in his description.
NPD types are incapable of accepting legitimate, valid, constructive criticism, however, and even mentioning these things to them will set them off because they have a very weak self image, and can’t handle any criticism whatsoever. So it’s best not to say this to them because they will just get angry.
They are typically incapable of honest self reflection without great effort, and thus any tangible self improvement is rarely possible.
NPD have one foundational problem- pride.
Is it true?
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye
Just watch their conduct and action.
@@bvon5630 Do you mean more like Jews or Muslims?
I found that it’s mainly crippling insecurity or unable to cope with reality
@@rebshannonling I am one. What does 'unable to deal with reality you surely mean 'unaccountable'? Did you also note'unable to take real ownership of their achievements? If not you should have.
Finally why are we so unrooted? Just curious to have your viewsl
Excellent; the most BS-free and accurately concise analysis I've yet encountered.
This is so powerful and to the point. The drama of countless relationships described in under 4 minutes. For the untrained person it's an encounter that can't lead to anything than the dissolution of the relationship.
Great lecture!
Grandiosity and emptiness. Empty best describes them.
Why would someone be telling me they're jesus
@@aurorasworld7042 It's to prevent to feel like garbage, which they would feel like if they didn't feel special.
I call them hollows.
I read a description once about narcs’ constant anxiety is the fear of others discovering their emptiness.
They are showing something from nothing. Empty people.
Whelp... Yup. That’s one way to describe my mom.
My father had BPD. Home was a nightmare. To cope with the chaos, my sister became a lifelong narcissist, and has done quite well for herself. I got off easy, as I only have feelings of utter worthlessness and depression. My brother suffered the most, I can’t even talk about his afflictions. The things that happen to people.
They have the opportunity to be better but they become bitter and trample on the lives of others.
We have all trampled on the lives of others in order to have better lives. All the prosperity of nations has been derived from the slaughter, oppression and theft from other less protected peoples through constant warfare. Our economy is derived from the spoils of war i.e. the lives of others.