Part 2 The Light Stuff (human-powered flight)
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Sadly, this excellent documentary about recreating the mythical flight of Daedalus using modern material and other technology is no longer available. I bought it as a VHS tape. This kind of information loss due to changes in technology is called "data rot". The story of how this group at MIT overcame the enormous obstacles and setbacks on the way to triumph is part of of our technological history. It should remain available--especially for young people discovering engineering. Fun to watch, too!
If you like this video, you will also enjoy the story of the MacCready family's original development of human-powered flight. The video and audio on the CZcams version are dreadful, but if you like it you can buy a beautifully remastered DVD.
• F-0056 Flight of the G... - Věda a technologie
Get Lance Armstrong back on the juice and put him in there!
This is amazing. I've known about human powered flight but i never stopped to think about how much it actually means for a human to fly under his own strength with nothing else keeping him off the ground.
oh and p.s. thank you so much for posting these videos! i was a huge fan of the daedalus HPA and glad to see others that enjoy it. i feel that this event was a giant breakthrough in what man can accomplish.
This is so great - these guys and gals should be so proud of their accomplishment!
"By the summer of 86..." - AH! GOOD OLD GOLDEN TIMES!!!!
thanks to you, it is now,forever and to the end of time a bunch of 0 and 1's for all to see,enjoy and learn from.
I watched the first two parts; great so far!
The only improvement I can possibly see might be winglets to reduce some of the drag. Gearing adds WEIGHT, and extra weight is to be avoided at all costs. What they had here was about as close to perfect as they could get with the existing technology. I doubt we could do much better now.
Less pressure difference between top and bottom, more spread out. Same surface area, same lift, less induced drag.
that and the more surface area of the wing you have increases the drag as well, if the angle of attack is just right and if you have the proportional wing dimensions then you will be just dandy
I might of missed that i was forwarding through some of it. But i think its kinda cool to even get something like that to fly that long just by using only your legs
I think you are right in saying that the load needs to be matched to the engine. At the same time, there is no free lunch when talking about power. I've talked to people who have pedaled HPAs and it is not easy. Making the propeller go faster would require still more power.
If you ride a bicycle, say, 1 kilometer, in any gear combination, you'll do the same amount of total work, all other conditions held the same (wind, hills, etc). Gears make the work per gear revolution easier/harder, but don't change the total amount of work. In this case, if you gave the pilot higher gears, he'd have to work harder per revolution, but for fewer revolutions; lower gears would mean less work per revolution, but for more revolutions. Engineering is often about compromises.
Ignoring how awesome the rest of the video is... did we just witness the invention of Gatorade in the closing 10 seconds?
you ever notice how easy the pedal turns in first, versus a gear like seventh? the more higher the gear ratio, the more work per revolution is required.
first great minds on youtube along with the first constructive comments! we need an award
plus you have to add in the fact that more gears equals more weight in a very weight conscience situation. if they had engineers figuring out the prime speed in order to take flight at an efficient rate to not overwork the pilot then that is good enough. a larger prop was used in this case so that rpm didn't have to achieve such a fast pace. trust me, the engineers designed this very well. i would love to see this remade!
thanks for sharing
Great...!!!👏👏👏👏👏✈✈✈✈
The beer box on the floor under the table in the wing spar construction scene... Ha ha, they drink some beer of an evening there.
then the dude was wearing a michalobe tshirt lolol
is this the late 70's or the early 90's? everyone in this video looks awesome:)
Like a Kerbal Space program! :D
It's a good question. I looked up Gatorade in Wikipedia and it was formulated in the 1960s, so the basic idea was around. I guess it's fine-tuning the concept.
Helium filled wings,lift is taken care of. With a minimum of air speed by the person to provide froward motion. Nylon gears and belts for 2 carbon props. Might be worth a try.
Jim Braun That brings an interesting unseen factor... Air in the wings would create resistance.. Helium could be better instead of air.. Nice one
Jim Braun I did the calc and you need a tube 4 meters in diameter filled with hydrogen - helium has half the lift if I remember correctly, so unfortunately there wont be enough helium in the wings to do much good + helium has such small molecules it can go through aluminum so you have to keep topping it up and its very expensive stuff.
welcome back to the ages of true nerds, those weird geniuos that everybody hated but changed the history of technology and programming, so that's a punch in the face for their bullies x3
No that was the 60's by a guy who worked at Florida state (I think) Florida Gators = Gator aid. This was around 89 or so if I remember correctly.
If you can make the wings thinner, by making them longer,
the "wing tip suface" will become smaller. Resulting in lower "induced resistance".
It's better to have small or curved wingtips, like a spitfire. (or a bird)
Instead of rectangular wings, like some old air caravans.
As long as I have been a pilot and a long distance cyclist... that my friend was funny! Go Gatorade! LOL
thx, i remember this from when i was a kid.
Probably because these types of prize challenges specify "heavier than air" - no lifting gas allowed.
OTIMO VIDEO
awesome point dude, you'd think if people paid this much money they'd think about stuff like this, you'd think they'd be able to use much much lighter materials or even strong fabric for the wings if it was in a triangle along with making the cockpit smaller and save a hell of a lot more weight...wanna team up and try it again? lol
higher aspect ratio has less induced drag, span wise flow causes a vortex at the wing tip,
cool how many parts are there going to be
Yes, the propellor itself has quite a bit of drag. Speeding it up costs a bunch.
Good vid
Well said.
I didnt know that about planes and the propeller, thank you for the civil debate :)
Theres a japanese show called birdman rally and the record was 36 km. His feet were cramped and he couldnt move.
Hm I wonder how far we could go if we tried this again nowadays
Heck, by 1986 aircraft designer Burt Rutan had been actively perfecting and flying his winglet designs for at least 12 years. Wonder why the MIT team didn't utilize his expertice.
could try putting in a kind of pedal gear system like on a bicycle. after take off switch to a higher gear to slow the needed pedaling speed which even with some added effort will use less energy to sustain overall. more speed in pedaling the more effort because you need not only strength to pedal but you also need to be able to apply it quickly which takes more effort than similar or a little more strength but slower pedaling.
Graphite fiber = early carbon fiber. Now it's about as strong as steel rather than aluminum. Impressive advancements indeed!
This should be a new Olympic sport.
an elite climber can put out about 6 watts/kg a second for over an hour and can push up to 1500 watts when they are sprinting. the onlyt hing holding these things back is the people flying them, not the machines.
well imagine a bike...i could either pump my heart out in 1st gear and only get to about 8 miles an hour or so with very little resistance, or all the way in 3rd gear I could put in about half the work and get to around 15 or 20 mph. and because it's a propeller so there wouldn't be much resistance making larger gears easier to use
would filling the frame with helium help any or having helium pockets in the wings?
a drink that replenishes glucose, water, and salt.....isn't that Gatorade??
they forgot tomention that it was mainly flying with the help of ground effect and hot air going upwards
that would kinda make sense but, she would use more energy for the torque need for a large cog, then to transfer through other cogs to the torque to the propeller.. I believe
pedal harder or pedal faster
wow, this looks almost exactly like a modern R/C dlg!!
Please I want the process to the plane's wing in detail
This looks like the 80's. It was difficult to get high performance carbon fiber which would go to the military first.
is it possable to use stored energie like in a wind up clock ? human powered ! .
ya u could but I was also thinking u could use the kinetic motion from pedaling to charge a battery so it could switch between pedaling and electric power. i do think ur idea would be possible but u risk stalling because after winding it up for awhile u would get a lot of resistance and ur RPM's would drop drastically and it could result in a stall, also the amount you would wind it verses the amount of energy ud get from it would not be a lot so ud have to do tht a lot and it would just be easier to pedal constantly or use my method of power.
yea i know it isnt a wii but its wierd how it looks just like it
How about winglets to decrease the induced drag?
When was this made? I see a lot of things which look like their from the 80's.
+LorddGray Yes, the 80's. It mentions the exact years in Part l
sciencetoymaker Ah, thanks.
why has no one thought to put a chargeable battery on board? That way it can take off on battery, then at altitude the pilot could take over pedaling which powers the aircraft as well as charges the battery then throughout the duration of the flight it would switch back and forth between pedaling and the electric engine saving the pilot a lot of pedaling and providing a slightly more steady source of power.
+ryfodrea
That's like asking in 2108, why has no one thought to put the latest mini cold fusion reactor on a plane being built in 2015.
Id try for it though it might be awhile to get down to a proper weight xD
They said that they couldn't get the right kind of carbon fiber. That might have been in the early days of carbon fiber.
16:45 invention of sportdring (aquarius; getorade) by doctor Nadal
12:47 I want that bicycle.
Non sequitur, but... Its a little disconcerting that this technology hasn't come farther in nearly 25 years. Carbon fiber was in its infancy when this was made and drive train technology and materials have both come quite a ways. Lipo batteries and a brushless 13 HP continuous motor wouldn't even add 10 lbs to the design and could be used sparingly to allow the body to recuperate (I know its cheating from a purist stand-point, but regardless...)
Basically, where is my air-bike already?
first off you need an alternator, a small light wight battery to be stored. think simpler and smaller you could even combine manual capo-nets so the driver or drivers dont die out from to much physical exercise. also calculate for air intake to maximize you speed and performance.
physics optimize or focus the human-power to its full potential.
Alternators and batteries tend to be quite heavy for the energy they produce and store. All physical effort used to crank the alternator would diminish the power applied to the airplane's thrust, and the energy returned would be less than the energy diverted to it, so a net loss in energy available for the flight. Also, the alternator/battery combo would increase the weight of the craft, requiring a stronger (and heavier) structure further increasing the weight of the plane, all of which would require yet more energy to produce sufficient lift and thrust for flight.
it seems boston -MIT is now fully shackled by Military ideas and ideals. I like that term - data rot kind of like planned obsolescence?
and why no 4 blade prop? since human legs produce alot of force translated to torque and very low speed
I agree make it float and see if an athelete can fly over the pacific
its not really less drag but its a better lift to drag ratio
It's in Part 3
looks like Gossamer-Albatross ?? from 1979?
SImple machines allow you to multiply force, but not the amount of work done. If the pilot can output 500 Watts of power there is no way to increase that output. If we could simply gear up to increase work we would launch rocket ships under human power.
A cyclist is more efficient using a fast cadence, usually 90-100 rpm, rather than a slower cadence. Slower pedaling translates to a harder gear. Mashing gears is not more efficient.
It was wonderful that a woman was the pilot for the test flights.
Pay Way It is good value but obviously isn't the best for physical attributes. Men were made to be hunters.
+Pay Way Yes, and it was treated as though it was a disappointment that she only broke the world record for women and that the male medical student later went three times as far with energy to spare. To be frank, I felt a bit crushed that it was considered a failure on her part when in my book, she is a total hero learning to fly and testing out this plane. The fact that women and people in general have different physical sizes and strengths is neither grounds for pride nor shame. The fact that she contributed to the success of this effort makes her as much of a hero as if she had flown half-way around the world. The whole team had a lot to be proud of.
0:05 The Origins of the Nintendo Wii :D
when was this made?
I think it was the 1980s. I think it gives the year somewhere in Part 1.
Dale Cocking 1986, i heard mentioned.
The drink he developed was Gatorade.
Gatorade was developed in 1965 at the University of Florida by Robert Cade, Dana Shires, Harry Free and Alejandro de Quesada.
azimuth361 it was as joke.
GlasGhost
What? No smiley face emoticon? How am I supposed to know it's a joke of you don't put a smiley face emoticon? Gawd!!!
Sorry, mate. Cheers!
16:45 Is it Gatorade?
install some winglets YO!
I do not agree with the premise that more revolutions per minute would mean less work for the pilot.
Sooooo did he make gatoraid?
Who usually provides financial support for these people?
uhm... that's a diskette reader, those old crappy peace of plastic that were used the same way we use cds and dvds now
anyone catch how the guy had a WII on the right in the first sccene
did they say hes a "sometimes M.I.T. student"???
does that mean hes an mit student when he wants to be?
in that case..i am a sometimes mit student
why not put on a winglet at the edge?
Increase prop rpm and lower pedal rpm through gearing.
then u get more resistance and at a certain point the amount of energy a person could put out and the resistance of the gearing would cancel and you wouldn't be able to get much more RPM's. I suppose if u used low gear and pedaled hard on take off then used a high gear at altitude that could work.
Why not using bi-wings?
13.43 "Unforgiving physics of women" would be accurate but that could of course not be said I guess..
@alabala327 Around 1988
Uh....did anyone else see the computer their using at the beginning of the video?? Was that MS Dos?? lol
+mike black Yes, it is quite extraordinary just how far I.T. has progressed!
did they have carbon fiber back then? they were using graphite.
its the same graphite is carbon
why dont they power it like a bike with gears? higher ratio gears would mean more revolutions per minute for the blade meaning less work for the guy...but to late for the criticism now lol
Imagine that: Husein BOLT pilotin a Carbon Fiber Version of this...!!!!
He would be able to engage a dogfight... :D
Well they where saying something about not having the right kinda of materials. Well they could use carbon fiber couldnt they?
Good they use metric. 3 watts per kilograms body weight. They could not get in MIT if they were chronic imperial unit users.
hahaha my sister went to mit and uses english system hahaha
i dream of a bicycle thats like prepetuial ! recoil springs an little energie ! peddle for a min and ride 10 lol ! think .
bet these guys would have killed for carbon fiber back then
Composites are awesome, and science is just begining to make them.
graphite epoxy is carbon fibre!!!
the 80's ?
Gay mustaches were required to be in on this project.
so much weigth, the wings are heavy!! maybe if they use it inflated compartiments in the wings would not be so heavy, and the efforts of the pilot would not so many, hehehe