To answer your questions. I think modern games have more quality of life features. Making them appear like they're Holding the hands of the player more often.
This is true. But at what point does quality of life become playing the game for you. Take auto path in MMO's, its a fantastic feature given the large scale of the worlds. But takes away from the experience of worlds.
Personally, I enjoy the low or no guidance category the most. I think that it’s all down to two factors: Firstly it’s about personal preference and secondly it’s about what fits the game the best. I think that it fits Elden Ring’s kind of “Tryhard” tone to have the exploration be more difficult than in games like Tom Raider where the tone feels more like a blockbuster action movie. I feel like you could kind of see that with how Cyberpunk 2077 did it with it automatically pinning the main mission when you finish another mission you had pinned and the markers and stuff, it didn’t do it’s world justice. The world is awesome and the side quests are as well but it’s so inviting to just tunnel vision from mission to mission. Basically I’m trying to say that different games are best with different amounts of guidance and thus are just made for different people
I agree that the type of game is really important in determining the appropriate level of guidance. I think cyberpunk could have benefited from the option Horizon Forbidden West has, where you can choose what level of guidance you want, do you want map markers off or on. Like you said ever game will appeal to different people.
I am defo a Low and Medium guidance person, with a preference toward low. Hold your Hand type games for me are kinda frustrating to some degree because it often feel like they don't respect me as a player. Elden Ring, Hollow Knight and Journey are all in my top 15 games so that should tell lol
It might not be your style of game, but definitely give Scorn a look. It's a new release and there is literally no guidance whatsoever, it leaves you on your own to figure everything out.
I like that you brought ups Horizon's ability to choose your guidance level, because I think that can exist on both ends of the spectrum, and player choice is better in this instance in my opinion. Being able to disable guidance and learn on your own is a great option. That option also exists for games like Elden Ring, but my problem with Fromsoft is that those guidance systems you can opt into are external, and often incorrect. The wiki, especially fextralife, is almost always wrong for at least the first year or so. With bloodborne the fextralife still has bad info to this day. I often find myself wishing there was an in-game system you could opt into to accomplish a lot of the thing you would use a wiki to find out. I'll give a few example for elden ring. One thing I wish was in game was a table of weapon damage for different levels, upgrade levels, and affinity types. There is a character named the All-Knowing, so why can't he have a slide rule and a bunch of charts that leads you to a menu where you can theory craft builds? Sure, giving this to the player at the beginning of the game would be a bad design move, but having it be available in the end game would be awesome. Another thing I really wish existed was some sort of enemy catalog where if you fought enough of a certain type of enemy, or died to a boss enough, it would tell you some of its stats including its weaknesses and resistances. You know what else would be great? An item checklist. I don't need to know where everything is, but just knowing how many pick ups I missed when I clear an area would be great. You can break these into categories like hidden items, items, unique ingredients, keys, and runes. I don't know what the in-game explanation for this system would be, but it would be a nice quality of life feature. These are things you would use a wiki or a guide for, and eventually will on your 3rd or 4th playthrough. But having that information be inconsistent or wrong sucks, and fromsoft could easily include the correct information with an in-game system.
Agreed! Id love to be able to choose. Because some players might want to experience the game by just exploring and learning, while other players might just want to experience everything the game has to offer, and not waste time exploring everything. It's a shame the the souls game suffer from bad deliberate bad design choices, just to make the game harder. I think that would be an awesome idea, to have a character to test builds or even have some sort of training dumby, before you commit to a build. I'd say this isnt a huge issue, because its somewhat easy to respect your character, but its such a pain when you just want to experiment with new gear. All these ideas are examples of a deliberately bad design choice, by From Software. They don't have these features, because they want the game to be difficult, to not have quality of life features. I personally disagree with this approach, but I also think, adding these features might make the game a lot easier, it most certainly doesn't take away from the rewarding elements of souls games. But it does make the overall experience Nicer. I have to say I'm on the fence for this one.
@@SlickGaming1 Play dark souls and then you'll understand the true meaning of low-guidance. Honestly, Elden ring is very easy due to tutorial section and map is there to travel. Dark souls 1 does not have it. There's so much areas but no map. And you can't warp to places until an item in late-game is discovered. So if you are stuck down deep inside the swamps and got cursed(it reduces your total hp by 2), you have to travel all the way back up to the undead church to get the antidote, then travel again to the earth's depths. And I'm pretty sure DLC is tad difficult and the base game is so much hard. It took like 180 hours for both the endings. It is not like other games. In this game, if you need to kill a boss you gotta learn it. Not by levelling up. You need to be patient, don't get greedy and plan everything. A small time error will kill you mostly. But the immense satisfaction after killing the boss is just so much good. And the lore of dark souls 1&3 are the best
@@clementa918 The original dark Souls is a metroidvania, so its structured in a way that you will find where to go by just exploring over time. And I do agree with you, the game gives you literally no guidance. I really think they shouldn't have done the who teleport thing. GMTK does a great video discussing how the teleport ruins the connectivity of the world in Dark Souls 1.
@@SlickGaming1 yeah. Elden Ring should have like way less grace points. Like if you wanna reach the merchant for getting some soap, you gotta warp to weeping peninsula and then work your way out there. A Stake of Marika in important areas and bossfights is more good. I personally feel that they should've taken it low with grace points
From my perspective lack of hand holding is what made so many old school titles great cause it's what gvae them and yourself more meaning a d purpose, every secret you discover is your cause you found it and not the game giving it to you, that new sword, well you like it more cause you Know what you went through to get it, more than any it feels earned, case in point 👉🏿 the things you achieve in-game and in-life feel sweeter when it's by your own effort (except for those who don't like to work for any thing and feel better getting it from others)
It certainly depends on what the player values more. the satisfaction of discovering new things and figuring iut out on your own, or the satisfaction of not wasting large amounts of time trying to figure things out.
To answer your questions. I think modern games have more quality of life features. Making them appear like they're Holding the hands of the player more often.
This is true. But at what point does quality of life become playing the game for you. Take auto path in MMO's, its a fantastic feature given the large scale of the worlds. But takes away from the experience of worlds.
@@SlickGaming1 And if you been there many times already?
Like I don't want to see the same place for 10th time.
Personally, I enjoy the low or no guidance category the most. I think that it’s all down to two factors: Firstly it’s about personal preference and secondly it’s about what fits the game the best. I think that it fits Elden Ring’s kind of “Tryhard” tone to have the exploration be more difficult than in games like Tom Raider where the tone feels more like a blockbuster action movie. I feel like you could kind of see that with how Cyberpunk 2077 did it with it automatically pinning the main mission when you finish another mission you had pinned and the markers and stuff, it didn’t do it’s world justice. The world is awesome and the side quests are as well but it’s so inviting to just tunnel vision from mission to mission. Basically I’m trying to say that different games are best with different amounts of guidance and thus are just made for different people
I agree that the type of game is really important in determining the appropriate level of guidance. I think cyberpunk could have benefited from the option Horizon Forbidden West has, where you can choose what level of guidance you want, do you want map markers off or on. Like you said ever game will appeal to different people.
great video! Im surprised though because you never mention ghosts of thsushimas system. I like it very much!
Funny you say that. I actually completely forgot about GOT 😅 A friend said the same thing! Glad you enjoyed the video!
I am defo a Low and Medium guidance person, with a preference toward low. Hold your Hand type games for me are kinda frustrating to some degree because it often feel like they don't respect me as a player.
Elden Ring, Hollow Knight and Journey are all in my top 15 games so that should tell lol
It might not be your style of game, but definitely give Scorn a look. It's a new release and there is literally no guidance whatsoever, it leaves you on your own to figure everything out.
I like that you brought ups Horizon's ability to choose your guidance level, because I think that can exist on both ends of the spectrum, and player choice is better in this instance in my opinion. Being able to disable guidance and learn on your own is a great option. That option also exists for games like Elden Ring, but my problem with Fromsoft is that those guidance systems you can opt into are external, and often incorrect. The wiki, especially fextralife, is almost always wrong for at least the first year or so. With bloodborne the fextralife still has bad info to this day. I often find myself wishing there was an in-game system you could opt into to accomplish a lot of the thing you would use a wiki to find out.
I'll give a few example for elden ring. One thing I wish was in game was a table of weapon damage for different levels, upgrade levels, and affinity types. There is a character named the All-Knowing, so why can't he have a slide rule and a bunch of charts that leads you to a menu where you can theory craft builds? Sure, giving this to the player at the beginning of the game would be a bad design move, but having it be available in the end game would be awesome.
Another thing I really wish existed was some sort of enemy catalog where if you fought enough of a certain type of enemy, or died to a boss enough, it would tell you some of its stats including its weaknesses and resistances.
You know what else would be great? An item checklist. I don't need to know where everything is, but just knowing how many pick ups I missed when I clear an area would be great. You can break these into categories like hidden items, items, unique ingredients, keys, and runes. I don't know what the in-game explanation for this system would be, but it would be a nice quality of life feature.
These are things you would use a wiki or a guide for, and eventually will on your 3rd or 4th playthrough. But having that information be inconsistent or wrong sucks, and fromsoft could easily include the correct information with an in-game system.
Agreed! Id love to be able to choose. Because some players might want to experience the game by just exploring and learning, while other players might just want to experience everything the game has to offer, and not waste time exploring everything. It's a shame the the souls game suffer from bad deliberate bad design choices, just to make the game harder.
I think that would be an awesome idea, to have a character to test builds or even have some sort of training dumby, before you commit to a build. I'd say this isnt a huge issue, because its somewhat easy to respect your character, but its such a pain when you just want to experiment with new gear.
All these ideas are examples of a deliberately bad design choice, by From Software. They don't have these features, because they want the game to be difficult, to not have quality of life features. I personally disagree with this approach, but I also think, adding these features might make the game a lot easier, it most certainly doesn't take away from the rewarding elements of souls games. But it does make the overall experience Nicer. I have to say I'm on the fence for this one.
"Worst game of the year .... Elden Ring" LOL
Definitely not Sarcasm 😜
@@SlickGaming1 Play dark souls and then you'll understand the true meaning of low-guidance. Honestly, Elden ring is very easy due to tutorial section and map is there to travel. Dark souls 1 does not have it. There's so much areas but no map. And you can't warp to places until an item in late-game is discovered. So if you are stuck down deep inside the swamps and got cursed(it reduces your total hp by 2), you have to travel all the way back up to the undead church to get the antidote, then travel again to the earth's depths. And I'm pretty sure DLC is tad difficult and the base game is so much hard. It took like 180 hours for both the endings. It is not like other games. In this game, if you need to kill a boss you gotta learn it. Not by levelling up. You need to be patient, don't get greedy and plan everything. A small time error will kill you mostly. But the immense satisfaction after killing the boss is just so much good. And the lore of dark souls 1&3 are the best
Noone says anything, you are on your own. You have very minute clues to where you should head
@@clementa918 The original dark Souls is a metroidvania, so its structured in a way that you will find where to go by just exploring over time. And I do agree with you, the game gives you literally no guidance. I really think they shouldn't have done the who teleport thing. GMTK does a great video discussing how the teleport ruins the connectivity of the world in Dark Souls 1.
@@SlickGaming1 yeah. Elden Ring should have like way less grace points. Like if you wanna reach the merchant for getting some soap, you gotta warp to weeping peninsula and then work your way out there. A Stake of Marika in important areas and bossfights is more good. I personally feel that they should've taken it low with grace points
From my perspective lack of hand holding is what made so many old school titles great cause it's what gvae them and yourself more meaning a d purpose, every secret you discover is your cause you found it and not the game giving it to you, that new sword, well you like it more cause you Know what you went through to get it, more than any it feels earned, case in point 👉🏿 the things you achieve in-game and in-life feel sweeter when it's by your own effort (except for those who don't like to work for any thing and feel better getting it from others)
There is still secrets, I played many games that have secrets that never tell you.
It certainly depends on what the player values more. the satisfaction of discovering new things and figuring iut out on your own, or the satisfaction of not wasting large amounts of time trying to figure things out.
Only in mobile games
They do love over the top tutorials 😂
13:00 sweaty goal
Big Feature!! 😁