How to Open a Violin
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2019
- Fox shows how he opens up violins for repair!
If your instrument needs to be repaired, take it to a luthier!
If you are learning to work on instruments, make sure to practice on something of no value before attempting this!
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/ sculptyworks
#luthier #instrumentrepair #violin - Zábava
9 min of pure asmr
Thank you! It helped me to understand how ot works.
👍
Is that a strainer violin (or Klotz?)
I would be surprised if that was the original top. I didn't expect to see planing or chisel marks on the inside. The back appears to be finished normally. Btw, how weak should the glue be for attaching a top plate? I've tried glue as weak as I dare and have had to re glue some seams. I just prefer not to have wood pull away when I open the violin.
There's no telling what this poor violin (and its various parts) have been through.
For the glue, the one I use has a one-to-one ratio of water and dry flakes. I make it like that normally, but if I want it a bit weaker I add a little more water (I don't measure it, I just eyeball it), just enough that I feel it's runny like warm honey.
Personally I prefer to have a few splinters separate if I have to open them again later, than for the seams to pop open on their own. 👍
Hi, this looks exactly like a Jacob Stainer copy I am about to attempt to restore. I haven't removed the top yet but a quick peek inside shows no blocks. Hopefully, apart from the modern glue on one section, it should pop open.. fingers crossed... PS This is my first one and it is very cheap :) LOL
Good luck with it! 👍
Those blocks inside mine were not at all 'standard', something very sloppy was done with that instrument. ...unless you mean corner blocks, those should be standard but you do find instruments without them. It's a characteristic of the 'cheaper' variety. 😉
@@SculptyWorks Yes, you are correct of course. Missing corner blocks.
@@SculptyWorks Hi, I just wondered whether, in your opinion, it's worth reverse engineering some corner blocks and installing them into the violin as part of the restoration / repair process? I am currently putting in a new bassbar so it is still open. Cheers.
@@stephenmorse342 Reverse engineering?
If I'm restoring something that I own that has no corner blocks, yes, I always make new blocks for it. It's a lot more work than making blocks for a violin you're making from scratch, though! Be warned! It will put your fitting skills to the test! 😉
@@SculptyWorks Yup, Reverse engineering :) I will have a go at making some blocks. I will have to cut away the willow(?) strips top and base of the ribs in the corners to fit them properly. Glass of wine or two first and a bit of chin scratching needed. Thanks for the advice!
What's the name of the melody/music in the background? Heared it many times in different videos or people playing it on violin but never lucky enough to know the title.
It's the Minuet, by Boccherini.
@@SculptyWorks Thank you very much! It took a lot of tries to find it
stupid question but I am new to this. would heating up the violin a bit with a hair dryer or heat gun help soften the glue and make it better to take it apart and more precise. or would that b a bad thing?
I have heard of some tricks for when the glue is very stubborn, like heat, or alcohol, but generally speaking I don't think it's a good idea. The heat needed to soften the glue could very likely damage the varnish. uUuhm... Now I gotta get a violin I don't mind wrecking and give it a try! 😉
@@SculptyWorks thx for the advice and quick reply. :)
@@SculptyWorks also the varnish has come off on alot of the places on the front. I read that I shouldn't take off the varnish cuz it can ruin the value. but the one I am working on has no value. lol. it is for practice. but I do like the back etc.. should I take off the varnish from the front and varnish completly or should I just varnish the spots that need it or is there some other way. thx u again
@@suzz1776 The general rule on a valuable instrument is NEVER TOUCH THE VARNISH! There's multiple reasons for that, value being only one of them. If the instrument has no significant value and you can actually /improve/ upon the varnish, use your best judgment on what to do with it. I personally have never encountered an antique instrument that I have restored that needed me to strip off completely the existing varnish. My approach has always been to clean it up and if there's parts where the wood is exposed or the varnish is badly chipped, then touch up the varnish there, usually with the 1704 recipe, or my own varnish if I deem it necessary. But I see all-the-freaking-time violins that someone's grandpa 'restored' that the varnish was completely stripped and something else was put on it instead.
@@SculptyWorks ok cool. thx u. tjat I'd exactly what I needed to know. so thxs again for all ur help. I truly appreciate it. :)
Is it harder to open a brand new violin? I have a new one and I want to open and move the sound post and bass bar to other side to convert to left handed. I'm a wood worker but never done this before on a violin
A brand new violin can be a bit harder to open because the glue does get a bit more brittle with age, so brand new glue doesn't break as easy, so go very slow and gentle.
As for converting it to left-handed, you might want to keep in mind that the bass bar is not 'swappable'. It has to be custom-cut to fit the exact place it goes on the bass side of the violin, it can't be just flipped around, you'll have to carve the existing one out and make a new one. And depending on the violin, the way the interior is carved is not symmetrical, it would have had to be made mirrored from the beginning.
I personally advise against left-handed violins. The violin is already an instrument that nothing at all about playing it comes naturally or intuitively. Fingering, shifting, and bowing, all are not natural movements or positions, and need to be learned from scratch. My advice would be to try learning it the way it's normally played, since those are all skills that need to be learned regardless and I don't think hand-dominance would affect it too much. ...that's my 2 cents. 😉
@@SculptyWorks I have to play left handed as I previously have broken my left handed multiple times boxing and it never healed correctly. I also play guitar and mandolin left handed so my fretting hand is best on the neck. I'm cutting a new bass bar. I'm A wood worker just never opened a new violin up. Thank you for the advise!
@@janseendiguiseppiThomasMC In that case yeah I can see why you need a left-handed one.
Good luck with the project! Let us know how it turns out! 👍
How about heating the knife in hot water,of course, drying it before inserting it into the violin ?
I have this exact question and it's why I watched this video. Did you try it yet? How did it go?
Please turn up your audio so we can hear you. I know that hide glue has a fairly low melting point. What do you think about a pot of simmering water at about 160°F to dip your knife/knives in to speed up the process and reduce tear out.
Sorry about the audio, it's always a bit tricky to get it right.
I never tried warm knives, and in theory I don't think they would improve the situation because heat activates hide glue, so instead of being brittle and snappy, it might get gooey and melty. Or not. Gotta experiment with it sometime.
@@SculptyWorks thanks for the response, I was just thinking that hot water would minimize potential cracks, etc. You have to clean up the old glue before reattaching the top anyway. I could be overthinking this. Let me know what you think.
@@davenatale850 You wouldn't want to use heat, or water, because those two things would make the glue soft and sticky again. One thing that I heard can be done with glue that is particularly stubborn is to use a little bit of alcohol, it makes the glue even more brittle and easier to snap. I've never had to use that method so far.
Yay tool re-purposing.
It looks like it had cleats put in it but not a proper bass bar again.
Missing bass bars seem to be a re-occurring thing here! 😥
Those blocky things are temporary clamping blocks used to help close the center seam which must have come open at some point and was glued shut and cleats put on (but never properly trimmed). For reasons we'll never understand, they then glued the whole thing shut and called it a day! 😑
Well... I got it back together and it's looking pretty good!
The neck was pretty warped ... I think most Luthiers would have replaced the neck all together but that wasn't an option with my limited skills so I planed the neck free from the bow and warping, levelled the board, cleaned as much mystery glue off there as I could and glued it back on there with hide glue, well ... Titebond cold hide glue but still hide glue.
czcams.com/users/shortspaXGkQYtTfo
Still needs a sound post but I don't know how to make and position that correctly and I know if that's wrong I could crack the top so I'm having it done by a pro. Then some varnish repairs and a polish and this thing should be good to go.
How do you guys deal with these tiny fragile things? They're so small ... Clamping it was a nightmare, planing the neck took forever and just the sweat from my hands was enough to damage the varnish... after this thing is done I think I'll stick to guitars, much easier to work with.
Found a whole new appreciation for the word Luthier I can tell you that, you guys are amazing just for having the patience and diligence of having to work so carefully for so long with such small and fragile pieces!
I'd like to thank you for the advice you've given me and for making these very educational videos,
Best wishes,
Frans
They are fickle little wooden boxes. 😜
There's so soundboard. Weird. Why would anyone take that out?
Do you mean the soundbar? It could have been someone 'experimenting', many have tried to re-invent the wheel on what comes to violins, and there have been some weird things done with soundbars in the past. Or it could be simply sloppy craftsmanship or communication error in the workshop that repaired that instrument in the past. It's a mystery! 🔎
Great tips. The tapping technique to open works much faster with a 2cm wood chisel and a 1kg sledge hammer. Jk
Yeah but the smallest sledge I have is 4kg. 😉
Nah open with sharpie more than hit it never I will do that.
Yikes...9 minutes to get it open!? :-o
Some pop open real easy and fast, some take a little more work; and it always takes a little longer when posing for the camera, but one should never try to hurry this. 😉
@@SculptyWorks 😆👍
Great patience......I'd be looking for a big ball peen !!!
...a claw or sledge will work too! 😉
@@SculptyWorks Great Vid. ......Thanks for your info. I'm going to try my hand on a old fiddle with a 4 inch long back seam crack opening ( about 3/8 inch opening). I'm not sure wetter to take the whole back off, 1/2 the back, or just try and clamp the 4 inch seam. This is my first attempt at this. The fiddle is worth less than 400 dollars, so I may as well give it a shot. Again, thanks for your fantastic video !!!
Hint: Don't open the violin, send it to a professional
most of the violin does not worth send to professionals for repair
Hide glue is so easy to remove, too bad it's a hassle to work with when it comes to setting time but in terms of holding and loosening up it's the easiest to work with, you have to be fast tho ... Food gelatine works too but you'd have to be even faster as that has an even shorter setting time.
I have a 1900's German trade violin on the bench right now and someone repaired it with the wrong type of glue that doesn't want to break... that person should be skinned and rolled trough brine or salt for ruining my day.
The fingerboard detached somewhere in the last 100 years of its life and they glued it back on leaving all sorts of glue residue on the back of the neck and sides of the fingerboard that I can't remove, I've tried wiping it off with scorching hot steamed cloth, I've tried Naphtha on a paper towel ... nothing ... not even the thin parts are coming off, don't know what they used but it certainly wasn't hide, bone or fish glue.
It's not Titebond or Elmers either, I hear horrible things about that glue in terms of violin making and causing tear out but you can remove that from any guitar with cloth, heat and steam pretty easily so I don't think that's what they used either because that would have come off with the steamed cloth or Naphtha.
Very tough stuff they used...
Those few glue marks wouldn't be such a disaster if they glued the fingerboard back on straight but it's lopsided too and so much so that the E string has next to no room on the fingerboard so it has to come off... also when they glued the fingerboard back on they didn't plane the neck flat before they did so there's space between the neck and board.
I'm not looking forwards to taking the fingerboard off the neck but I have no choice or else it won't play right and would just look silly. I'm thinking about heating up a thin putty knife in a pan of boiling water, wipe it dry and work that in between the neck and board to soften the glue up and break it... hope it works, this is how we take guitar fingerboards off so I don't see why this wouldn't work on a violin.
I'm a guitar repair tech and normally only work on guitars, bass guitars and drums, generally I find violins to be intimidating to work on due to their fragility and age but this was a 70$ acquisition and a type of violin there are literally still millions of today so why not try. Just a little apprehensive about potentially wrecking an instrument that survived two world wars
P.s. sorry for the long winded rant... if you have any tips for a hobby Luthier/Repair tech I would greatly appreciate that.
I run into "mystery glue" on instruments all the time. I feel your pain!
If the fingerboard has to come off, and there's no room to just re-shape it, and the glue won't give up, and your customer is willing to fork out the cost, I would say carve out the fingerboard and install a new one. Some glues simply won't let go and you risk warping the neck with too much heat/moisture! 🥹
@@SculptyWorks Strange i replied to this earlier but I don't see it ....
I was afraid that ship had sailed when they glued it back on the first time it broke, one side had a huge gap in the middle and the other side only a little gap so I thought it was already warped slightly but it turned out less severe than I thought... Maybe they clamped it wrong making it look worse than it is, the board is off now and the neck appears to be less bowed than when it had the FB glued on it..
I ended up using a candle to heat the knife instead of boiling water because this mystery glue was extremely elastic and took way longer to loosen the bond so the heat dissipated off the blade too fast when I heated it with water. It went... hold it over the candle, pry it in.. wiggle, & repeat... a lot.
The mystery glue looked like chewing gum on my blade and stuck right back to the board and neck after it cooled down so that was fun... took 40 minutes just to pry it off and I burned myself on that damn candle twice but I got it done with little to no tear out on either side ...
After I got it off the "bow" or warp in the neck looked minimal, I do suspect I'll have to do a little planing to get it flat but it doesn't look to be very much on the straight edge of my machinist ruler so here's hoping I can flatten it out without taking off too much and having to adjust the neck angle!
Fb looked salvageable tho, tiny piece of tear out but that's it ... should go back on without too much hassle.
I did a couple of shorts on it on my channel to document my progress in case you'd like to see how it was and where it is now.
Anyway thanks for the advice, I'm glad I didn't have to carve the fb off and replace it but I still appreciate the tip!
@@FraJa1980 CZcams comments are awful. Every week I check them on the Studio thing and see there's dozens of comments CZcams never notified me about. Very frustrating when you actually like responding to comments like I do! 😜
Glad the fingerboard came out without you needing to carve it out! If the neck has just the slightest bit of a bow or warp, chances are it will get corrected when you glue the fingerboard back on.
You want a flat surface on the neck to work with, but if possible, avoid re-flattening it to any extreme degree because that will mess with the projection and all that and you'll need to make corrections for that. So, give preference to changing the fingerboard, since that is a relatively easily replaceable part. 👍
@@SculptyWorks Yeah I know, had the same problem with comments. You'd think a company like CZcams would fix that.
it was pretty warped, I'm talking 0.2 mm gap on one side and around 1.8-2mm on the other and it had a faint hump on the right side base around the neck joint area, looking down the side it looked like a stretched out letter S.
I wish I had seen your comment earlier because I did do quite a levelling job to get most of that bowing and warping out but I tried to keep the same angle for the fb protrusion as it had before as much as I could.
I even took a little off above the pegbox to make up for the hight differential between the highest and lowest part of the gap and still preserve that angle but I eyeballed it so I'm hoping I'm still ok on that end.
Fingerbord lies flat on it with no gaps now and looks to still have the correct angle, just a little lower so here goes hoping I didn't mess it up.
I'm learning a lot here so if anything that's worth the 70$ this thing cost me.
@@SculptyWorks this is either my heroic act... or sin against violin kind.
czcams.com/users/shorts1ROgDgJfjXc
There's 5 parts so far, 1 and 2 show how bad it was.