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58. The Geonim of Baghdad (Jewish History Lab)
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- čas přidán 13. 03. 2021
- Brief discussion of some aspects of the political, economic, religious and technological context of the post-Talmudic Geonim of Baghdad, 7th-11th centuries.
Recommended reading:
Moshe Gil, Jews in Islamic Countries in the Middle Ages (Brill, 2004)
A History of Jewish-Muslim Relations: From the Origins to the Present Day
Edited by Abdelwahab Meddeb and Benjamin Stora (Princeton, 2014)
Interested in studying more deeply with our Membership perks?
Join our learning community of students, researchers and colleagues: / @henryabramsonphd
I am not a Jew, but I find these presentations unbeatably interesting. Thank you!
Thank you! That is so great to hear!
addicted to your lectures. no escape
That’s where my ancestors migrated from to Egypt and to the west Africa, Ghana thank you.
I listened to one of your videos a short while back because I have a general interest in history. Your excellent presentations have reeled me into Jewish history. Thank you.
Thank you! Such a fascinating period in Jewish history! Thank you for making history come alive.
Glad you find the videos useful!
Clear, concise and jam packed with sources for further research and study.
Thank you for your kind feedback!
I had no idea you were Canadian until you mentioned it, Dr. Abramson. Your Canadian accent is shining through now😎. Mazel Tov!
Great series, by the way
No apologies needed for that personal history interlude, certainly! Great stuff.
I love the expedition to Iroquois Falls! I'm holding back from asking you whether you know Mike…
As it happens, my Grade 7 French teacher, a fellow called Mourad el-Kodsi, wrote a history of modern Karaite Jews in Egypt, and a history of the Karaites of Eastern Europe. We knew he was Egyptian, we knew he was a classmate of Sadat's, we knew vaguely that he was Jewish; but it's so exciting to find out that he was a Karaite and a scholar of Karaitism! To your point about coexistence, he was a congregant at a (Rabbinite) Conservative shul.
Interesting aspects.
These lectures are wonderful. For Jews and non-Jews ( like me) alike...anyone interested in world history.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful lecture!
You're very welcome!
I remember reading ( don’t remember the source ) that when a responsa came back from the academies in Babylonia or Palisistine to the communities, it was a cause of great celebration, all the town would gather and it would be read aloud from the Bimah before the reading of the portion while everyone stood .
ty
I wish these great episodes where 1 hour long and a bit slower and more informal. The information flow is very dense and challenging. I love what you do . . Thank YOU !
Well, you can play them at a slower speed by clicking on the little wheel on the lower right. It seems, however, that the 15-30 minute size is more popular with my students.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I agree! Even 20 minutes raises so many questions. A full hour would be too much to bear.
During the Ottoman Empire, the Karaites attempted to gain recognition for themselves as the 'authentic Jews.' They approached the sultan, wanting to be recognized as the legitimate 'People of Israel,' and that the Jewish People should be disenfranchised as being fakes. The sultan summoned both a rabbi and a representative of the Karaites to appear in front of him at the royal palace. After hearing both their cases, he would decide who was the authentic "People of the Book."
Of course, as was the custom of the East, both the Karaite and the rabbi were required to remove their shoes before appearing in front of the Sultan. The Karaite removed his shoes and left them by the entrance to the throne room. The rabbi also removed his shoes, but then he picked them up and carried them with him into the audience with the sultan.
When the sultan looked down from his throne, he was struck by the somewhat strange sight of the rabbi holding a pair of shoes, and he demanded an explanation.
"Your Majesty," began the rabbi, "as you know, when the Holy One, may His Name be blessed, appeared to our teacher Moses, peace be upon him, at the site of the burning bush, G-d told Moses "Take off your shoes from on your feet!"
"We have a tradition," said the rabbi, "that while Moses was speaking to the Holy One, a Karaite came and stole his shoes!
"So, now, whenever we are in the company of Karaites, we make sure to hold onto our shoes!"
The Karaite turned to the rabbi and blustered:
"That's nonsense! Everyone knows that at the time of Moses, there were no Karaites!"
The rabbi allowed time for what the Karaite had said to sink in and then quietly added: "Your Majesty, I don't believe there is a need for more to be said..."
Great tale, but at the time of the Moses wasn't everyone a Kairite what with rabbinic Judaism only emerging after the destruction of the Temple?
Mark Simons sure it’s a myth, but it’s a greater myth to say Rabbinic Judaism started after the destruction of the temple.
Hmm
There weren't any Jews either in a religious sense. The only Jews in his time were people from the tribe of Judah.
Thank you for all your hard work and education on Jewishhistory it helps me to reaffirmmy identity. And I miss the jokes and hope you can start saying them again
The Geonim had a different method of learning Gemara than today that was preserved by the Rif, Rambam, Ibn Ezra, etc. The Jews in Europe didnt have as much access to Geonic material like the Andalusian Sepharadim so the ba'ale Tosafot had to create their own approach to learning Talmud. To learn more about the Geonic method check out Derekh Ha'Talmud by Rabbi Yischak Canpanton, Talmud Reclaimed by Rabbi Shmuel Phillips, and works by Rabbis José Faur and Yosef Kapach
Thanks for the references
It is fascinating to see, the adaption and receptiveness of Jews for the Writing System and Technology that were presented and were made available to them in their respective time periods (i.e. From Stone Tablet to Papyri to Parchment to Paper) and sometimes for that reason some major conflicts and debates can also be witnessed among Jewish Scholars for the preservation of Torah and Jewish Law, such as the events that took place during the rule of Islamic Caliphate between Karaite School and Rabbinic School over the issue of what should take precedence in Jewish life Written Law or Oral Law since both had long legacy and traditions that were passed down to them one generation after the other generation.
I also find this fascinating.
Great Lecture ! You just taught me about the Question and Answer format of the Jewish Academia at Baghdad. Todah Rabah !
Professor Henry, is this aforementioned information mentioned in a book authored by you ?
My Cousin is Canadian lives in Montreal. He is Orthodox as my parents were but will not go to Synagogue for fear of catching virus He last went a year ago.
As always very interesting.😎🌼
Thank you!
When you mentioned your grandfather's fleeing the Russian Empire to escape the Russo-Japanese War, that made me wonder if there's any primary sources of Jewish soldiers of the Russian Empire that did experience the war?
I read a few first hand accouns
@@menachemporter5367
Very interesting!
Fascinating........
Curious about (not necessarily Karaite) Jews migrating east into Central Europe. I see Georgia + Uzbekistan above. Would these people be Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, perhaps something else…?
Awesome
So cool!
Thanks for joining the live chat!
It is taught in the Christian tradition that many of those who bcame literate in medieval Europe did so in monastaries by hand writing bibles. Then the advent of the Protestant reformation occured coincidentally with the development of incunabulum, sometimes refered to as moveable type. (What was that phrase you taught that there are no coincidences?) Anyway I wonder if many of the young future Rabbi hand wrote Talmud , Mishna, Gemara and/or Torah in similar fashion to the monks of Christianity.
Thanks!
Hey, thanks for supporting the research!
much of the jerusalem talmud waning in influence also has to do with the fall of rome as babylon rose because in babylon the political situation was more stable
Relevant
Dr Abramson you just mentioned that Hebrew and Arabic languages are quite close. Very interesting. How so? There doesn't seem to have a lot of comment on that in public.
They are both Semitic languages. Think of them like how Spanish and Italian or better French are related. Similar grammar, words, etc.
As per @The Ggzzbb
In Arabic the word 'no' is 'la'.
In Hebrew the word 'no' is 'lo'.
The word for 'day' in both languages is 'yom'.
I have heard it said , that just as all questions from the Yeshivot of Babylonia passed through Cairo to their respected communities.
In the same way Rome had a repository of all responsa coming from the Palestinian academies , and R’Nathan Baal Ha’aruch used those in part to explain difficult passages in Talmud , which were the bulk of the questions.
The Italian yeshivot like Bari and later Lucca were directly tied to the palastinian ( אריות שבירושלים)academies.
When the Kolonymos ( Greek ) family moved to the Rhineland they brought with them that tradition.
ty
Great explanation of the emergence of a world centre for Judaism in Babylon facilitated by the Arab conquest. I have two sets questions:
1. How was the unity of Judaism managed prior to this when communities were isolated and split between rival imperial camps: Christian, Zoroastrian and pagan? One example that comes to mind is Jews (and Christian) tribes that Mohammed came into contact with in the Hejaz. Given the closeness of Judaism and Islam, I'm wondering whether Mohammed's beliefs might be close to a local 'variant' of Judaism, and there were many other variants around too; communities relying on tradition rather than learning.
2. The Babylonian Talmud is a massive work and each copy would be written out by hand, nor did it suddenly emerge fully formed in the 7th century, but was the conclusion of centuries of discussion. So I'm wondering how it was actually disseminated? The lecture indicates it became normative through influence and dissemination through the Arab empire, but what was the process for universal adoption? Did the questions and answers precede the final compilation, or was it "published" over a period of time like a serial novel? And how did it reach into the communities of Christian Europe?
All in all, I tend to consider the period between the Bar Kochba revolt in Judaea and the time of the Geonim as a sort of Jewish Dark Ages. This is about 500 years. Under such circumstances, It seems hardly surprising that some Jews did not accept the Talmud, or rather the authority of Babylon. This does not seem unusual as there had been multiple versions of Judaism in the late Temple period (Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Hellenists et al)
We know there was great divergence of belief amongst Christian communities at the time, not resolved (more or less) until the Council of Nicaea in 325. I am wondering if the Babylonian Talmud served a similar unifying role.
Hope this is not too hard!
A little too complex for this forum. I will leave it to the other audience members to discuss.
My father`s father also came from Lithuania in 1905, and also to avoid fighting the Japanese.
fascinating
Eventually every community accepted the method of vowelisation used by the Ben Asher Tiberian family. Although the Yemenites still use the original Babylonian method which have only six vowels (תנועות)unlike the Tiberian seven or the Sha’ami 5 used in modern Hebrew , but we all use the same nikud (ניקוד).
The Ashkenazi although its not sure if they always did , are the only ones using albeit corrupted Tiberian nikud and seven vowel system.
ty
Gaon is based on the root gimel-alef-he whose original meaning is 'high'. Gaon is a person of a high status like the previously used Nasi which is based on nun-sin-alef and whose original meaning is raise, lift. This is similar to Your Highness in Europe. Gaawa - pride - is just another word based on gaa in parallel with Gaon because a proud person mitgae or mitnase above others.
Thank you for the erudite comments!
The גאון numerical value is sixty , the amount of the tractates of the Talmud, he had to have mastered completely by heart .
ty
The Geonim of Palestine had their influence on the immediate surroundings known as the Sha’ami , like Syrian and Egyptian.
We find as late as the time of Binyamin of Todela that the custom of reading the Torah in three year cycle as the custom of the בני מערבא was still in practice in Fusfat Cairo
“Two large synagogues are there, one belonging to the men of the land of Israel and one belonging to the men of the land of Babylon. The synagogue of the men of the land of Israel is called Kenisat-al-Schamiyyin, and the synagogue of the men of Babylon is called Kenisat-al-Irakiyyin. Their usage with regard to the portions and sections of the Law is not alike; for the men of Babylon are accustomed to read a portion every week, as is done in Spain, and is our custom, and to finish the Law each year; whilst the men of Palestine do not do so, but divide each portion into three sections and finish the Law at the end of three years. The two communities, however, have an established custom to unite and pray together on the day of the Rejoicing of the Law, ( שמחת תורה)and on the day of the Giving of the Law.
ty
a small correction/question: isn't it AHL al-kitab (not AM?)
Correct
Kitab means book
Cajones means veril courage strength
Weird to see the lineage of the exilarch.
The geneaology gets weird.
You should check it out.
The Persians tie back into Babylon and the Nimrods. Awkward family reunion. Some of the Nimrods were Hitlers of their day. They did it because they were afraid to crash the Ponzi scheme started at the tower of Babel, I think. Meh. Everyone has black sheep.
Way to much info for one lecture Dr.
Wow thanks
Easier if you comment in a more concise manner
Henry Abramson sorry Dr. . I didn’t graduate Torou College, just a plain Yeshiva student without למודי חול.
But I’ll try to be more concise .
Found gahon in the old testament
Best line: First of all, she wasn’t Jewish. Second of all, she was taken prisoner in war 😂🤣😅
There is a biblical precedent for the latter, although criticized by the Rabbis. See Deuteronomy 24:10-14.
@@HenryAbramsonPhD מעניין.... אבל בדקתי את זה ואני חושב שהתכוונת להגיד דברים כ"א:י-י"ד:
כִּֽי־תֵצֵ֥א לַמִּלְחָמָ֖ה עַל־אֹיְבֶ֑יךָ וּנְתָנ֞וֹ יְהוָ֧ה אֱלֹהֶ֛יךָ בְּיָדֶ֖ךָ וְשָׁבִ֥יתָ שִׁבְיֽוֹ׃
וְרָאִיתָ֙ בַּשִּׁבְיָ֔ה אֵ֖שֶׁת יְפַת־תֹּ֑אַר וְחָשַׁקְתָּ֣ בָ֔הּ וְלָקַחְתָּ֥ לְךָ֖ לְאִשָּֽׁה׃
וְהֵסִ֩ירָה֩ אֶת־שִׂמְלַ֨ת שִׁבְיָ֜הּ מֵעָלֶ֗יהָ וְיָֽשְׁבָה֙ בְּבֵיתֶ֔ךָ וּבָֽכְתָ֛ה אֶת־אָבִ֥יהָ וְאֶת־אִמָּ֖הּ יֶ֣רַח יָמִ֑ים וְאַ֨חַר כֵּ֜ן תָּב֤וֹא אֵלֶ֙יהָ֙ וּבְעַלְתָּ֔הּ וְהָיְתָ֥ה לְךָ֖ לְאִשָּֽׁה׃
וְהָיָ֞ה אִם־לֹ֧א חָפַ֣צְתָּ בָּ֗הּ וְשִׁלַּחְתָּהּ֙ לְנַפְשָׁ֔הּ וּמָכֹ֥ר לֹא־תִמְכְּרֶ֖נָּה בַּכָּ֑סֶף לֹא־תִתְעַמֵּ֣ר בָּ֔הּ תַּ֖חַת אֲשֶׁ֥ר עִנִּיתָֽהּ׃ (ס)