@@christophercombs7561Russ and Vulkan have a good childhood. Russ was raised by chieftain of tribe and became his successor. Vulkan have family who raised him
@vladimirthegreen6097 russ was raised in the most brutal environment possible the same with many other primarchs tribal nordic culture amped up to 100 isnt conducive to a soft easy childhood my guy
Big E could just come down there and fight alongside him and you would have the most loyal angron ever. His petty reason not to saved his son people lead him to what his is now.
Guilliman answering like Angron doesn't have an unending Torture device that has ruptured his psyche for centuries. G-man would be equally fucked up if not more
@@Dr_Weirdoo If that is the tract we are accepting, then Angron's words are nothing more than the demented ravings of someone whose psyche has been ruptured by an unending torture device. You don't get to have this both ways.
@@Dr_Weirdoo For all his rage and violence, Angron is a self-pitying coward, and engaging in spiteful self-pity. There was nothing right his words here.
@@twilightwyrm One thing doesnt cancel the other. Angron may bitch and moan about his life a Lot, but in truth he may be (besides perhaps Lorgar) the only Primarch that deserves the Right to complain about not only the hand he was dealt but also the treatment he recieved from the Emperor In Master of Mankind the Emperor states it clearly. EVERYTHING causes him pain, just existing puts him in excruciating pain that is only numbed by killing. Not only that, but the Butcher's nails continue to grow and consume his brain, meaning not only the Emperor can't take them out without killing him, but the pain Will just keep growing. Not only that but besides for few moments of lucidity or Angron pushing through the pain, the Nails just dull any other emotion that isn't violence to zero, Angron LITERALLY can't feel empathy most of the time. Guilliman may think he toasted Angron with that phrase but How the fuck do You expect someone to get better when they physically fucking can't? He can talk all the shit he wants, but Guilliman was adopted by a king, raised properly and nurtured by Konor and Tarasha. Angron was beaten up by Eldar hours after being born, Enslaved, mutilated and lobotomized and then the only chance to die on his own terms ripped away from him as everyone he ever cared about was slaughtered. G-Man saw the Emperor for what he stood for, an idea of a united humanity. Angron always saw him for what he was, a Tyrant that would kill anyone who didn't agree with the Idea. Angron was perfectly fine with turning traitor, not because he hated humanity but because he hated the Emperor, and he would kill as much as necessary to fuck him over as hard as he could for taking him away from the battlefield in Nuceria
What ironic is that Gulliman snd Angron weren't that far from eachother before the Emperor found them. If Ultramar decided to expand east, things could've been drastically different
Angron would probably have been the leader of Ultramar’s armies and military while Gulliman would go full in on logistics and stuff. This is my head canon of what happens if Gulliman arrived on Angrons home planet. Personally I believe he would have recognized Angron for who he truly is the moment he lays his eyes on him.
Ultramar didn't exist until after the Emperor arrived. Angron got the nails implanted pretty quickly - it's a testament to his strength that he stayed a (broadly) functional individual for YEARS between then and the Emperor's arrival.
@locarno24 Guilliman's Mccraggian Empire did though, everyone kinda forgets that while it was nowhere near the 500 worlds, Guilliman had a multi-system empire when the Great Crusade arrived. but yeah Angron got the nails long before Mccrag could ever have reached him. but the nails weren't what made Angron betray.
@@kazmark_gl8652 no he didn't. Macragge was 'in contact with other worlds' it hadn't conquered them. At the point the Emperor reached Espandor (literally the adjacent system, who told him about Konor's son), he hadn't even finished conquering Macragge. The one with the pre-contact interstellar empire was Dorn, not Guilliman.
One of the many reasons why I hate Eredia. She knew, again she KNEW what Chaos was, how corrupting it is, and how they play the long game. Yet in her brilliance scattered the Primarchs across a ununified still tainted by Old Night galaxy. Because the Emperor created a "I Win" button mere years before rolling it out. She needs a retcon.
Relatively new to 40k. Help me out here,is she still canon? I see her mentioned alot by fans but I haven't come across her in the books I've read so far.
The sad part? This Betrayal could have easily been avoided if the Emperor just saved Angron’s army from its annihilation, by sending in the 4 Custodes!!! to fight, and then removing the Butcher’s Nails..
Hell, it could have been avoided without the Emperor’s involvement. Nuceria borders on Ultramar, if Guilliman’s father or Guilliman himself had expended further, the two Primarchs would have met- possibly before Angron would even get the nails.
@@SoulsOnly Yeah, it's one of the main characteristics of Angron's story. As for Big E just leaving without a long conversation, I'm pretty sure that part of the deal for the knowledge of the warpcraft to create the primarchs was that half of them would turn traitor. He knew almost instantly that Angron was permanently lost to him and didn't get emotionally invested.
@@Thalanoxthat makes it an even WORSE decision. If he knew half his sons would turn, then might as well train them in such a way that their behavior is regular and predictable. Also, I somehow doubt E is ever motivated by “attachment”.
“They called me slave and put nails in my brain, so now I’m gonna enslave/murder humanity with my army of genesons (who I will force to undergo the same brain butchery I whine about).” -Childish Primarch
@@Briselance Ambivalent dismissal of human suffering the moment it's inconvenient to them is about how the Imperium operates. The Imperium stands in self-righteous condemnation of everything else, nothing condemns the Imperium and lives.
What's sad about this is Angron was supposed to be the kindest, next to Vulkan. Hell, maybe even above. Sadly, Emp's bastard wife believed that sending them to the galaxy's worst planets was a good idea.
Erda was right. The Emperor only wanted disposable tools of bloodshed, that's what he made the Primarchs for. Erda wanted actual sons, and she scattered them so that someone might actually raise them properly if the Emperor refused to. Surprise, surprise, the Primarchs that didn't have messed up childhoods turned out loyalists. Read Saturnine and get the full context for why Erda did what she did. It's worth it.
It is unlikely she knew where each primarch was 'sent', it was sort of random. But she did make a mistake sure. Emperor made a quite a few himself raising Angron. Or I shouldn't say raising, neglecting is more like it...
@sigmametroid2630 Corax landed on a world where the slaves still outnumbered their leadership, and... unlike Angron, 90% of his brain wasn't replaced by a machine that makes intelligent thought literally painful. Corax, also, had a Primarch power that was useful for guerilla warfare. Angron's power was, near as we can tell, healing. Corax *also* still had the innate charisma of a primarch, which Angron lost when the nails were installed. Like, let's be fair, Angron had the worst deal of any of the Primarchs by such a wide margin, the Emperor literally contemplates if it might be easier to remake him from scratch at one point.
He was dealt a bad hand and instead of playing it to the best of his abilities he decsended into self-pity, abused his legion and let hatred consume his very soul. Tragic? Yes. Heroic? Far from it.
@@DzinkyDzinkImagine using the phrase "descended into self-pity" to describe a man who had his brain cut open and pain-generating spikes shoved in, without a hint of irony
Angron was designed to be the empathic soul of the Imperium in so many ways, his Primarch novel was really telling. The dude was tortured and betrayed in so many ways, but even at his worst he's got a knack for connecting the emotions of others
Though, Khorne gave Angron one thing no one ever gave him. Peace. After Angron blew up a planet and unleashed a rage plague. Khorne gifted Angron what the Choas God sees and experiences. For the 8 weeks, 8 days, 8 hours, and 8 seconds. Angron experiences true peace. He felt no rage, no anger, no pain. Khorne did something Big E never did for Angron. Gave him a figurative hug. Fuck, now I am imagining the image of Khorne hugging Angron, lol. It is cursed, rofl.
@@mrplimbles7803 Angron got fucked up in that fight by Guilliman who both had his skull cracked by juiced-up Lorgar's power maul and had no energy in his power fists. He's described as having suffered serious damage before overwhelming Bobby G who was already seriously wounded and practically unarmed.
@@Ralldoron Think you are remembering it wrong. Gulliman had Lorgar on the back foot for their entire 1v1, and Angron popped into frame and beat him sensless. Angron stood over the downed Gulliman who was trying to crawl away. The "good guys" are allowed to lose to better fighters, and he definately did.
Love the double meaning when talking about courage and honor, he talks about hia past, but also the present, accusing the emperor of being an enslaver and a tyrant.
Angron has a point, but he forgets, that guiliman had learned a hard lesson as well. Unlike angron, guiliman is able to take responsibility for his mistakes, angron meanwhile saw neither purpose nor love in a legion that was as honorable as he was, before the nails took away their humanity!
The moment Angron was gonna take ultimate responsibility for his actions was ripped away by the emperor when he teleported him out of that battle, left him a bit pissed lol
@@InnocentThief952so your dad literally kidnaps you from battle to have you chained in a prison while your friends and what could be considered as family get obliterated while he does nothing and then gives you his soldiers how would you not be angry
@@Unregistered.Hypercam.2.See. That is why I like Angron, but as an antagonist, as it makes sense, but he still chooses to be where he is, and he can only blame himself for that. I like Angron as a character, but he is no arbiter of righteous morals.
If anyone wants to see the full exchange bwtween the two, go watch Chris Glass' VA of this scene. He does some fantastic voice acting! Edit: 216. Hot damn. Thanks for all the likes guys! For the Emperor and or let the Galaxy burn!
@@Kingedwardiii2003 yeah but that’s not why Angron was mad at him Angron was mad at him because he had the nerve to call the reason that he betrayed the imperial childish
@@ThorGiske that’s not the reason he betrayed the emperor and that is also not the reason he’s mad at the emperor all the emperor had to do was to either a send the custodians to help Angron or b help Angron himself He did neither of those things and teleported him away, leaving his allies to die and forever brand him a coward on that planet and then basically said fuck your feelings here’s a lesion of super soldiers that I want you to command and do as you’re fucking told
@@Fallout4277 So that gives Angron the justification to cause all the murder and destruction that he did according to you??!! Are you really petty to unironically support and justify such drivel??!!
Like MLK said “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy," Angron made his choice when he made his personal torment galaxy spanning
@efestohorus2053 but before all that when baby angron landed on the planet the eldar attempted to kill him and it was why he was to weak to fend off the slavers so had they not he would have been able to probably conquer the planet
The thing I love about the traitor Primarchs is that most of them truly think they are doing the right thing and aren't just cartoonishly evil without any true motivation
Except lorgar , when he talked with Magnus about lifting the veil of reality and the warp by torturing and making suffer the ultramar sector he had no valuable reason beyond just doing evil for the sake of it
@@dontaejones7419 Im playing Devils advocate here but, Wasn't Logar emotionally abused by Kor and Erabus while growing up? And both of them working together to make Logar go over the edge and become a traitor? I don't like Logar ether but...
I'm pretty sure that's even more reason why he's Raging all the time. Because all he wants to do is die and let this hell be over, but Khorne won't let him.
@@504godzilla Neither did the Emperor, but then again he didn't need to lie to Angron. The emperor said "Be my attack dog." and Angron did as he was told, even if begrudgingly.
I know this is supposed to be Angron delivering a "this is why you suck" kinda speech. . but he sounds even more pitiful and childish. Like, dude. Roboutte lucked out, sure, but he took full advantage of his hand and made something good into something even better. All Angron has done is be angry and sad and be a dick to people he should've treated as comrades and sons all because he didn't get his way.
To br fair, he got jumped by a bunch of eldar as soon as he arrived on his planet, and then lobotomized. Hes childish because he's never been able to develop past being a child mentally.
One had the best upbringing and took full advantage of it, becoming a shining leader, the other had everything against him from start to finish and never gave up fighting, overall an exelent example of the conflict of two respectable characters.
Except for the most part, he did give up. Robot man responds to his remarks by saying he is still a slave which is true for all that talk of courage? He never accomplished anything with it, it never got him anywhere. Also Angron is a bully, it is insane for him to speak of courage with how he treated everyone else. (The world eaters who had the courage to stand up against him and call him out for his barbarism were slaughtered by him with no shred of respect or thought)
@@draketurtle4169 Good point but you have to consider that all of this is after he got kidnapped by the emperor, after this he was basically searching for a way to die, and after all the people you ever cared for are dead what reason do you have to be nice? And remember that he was still dying, in constant pain and without his primarch powers. He gave up but becouse he was dead inside by that point.
@@TheWoodsman308 I mean his own legion nearly killed him ot at least from their perspective thought they might have when using their warp powers to try and calm him.
@@draketurtle4169 But if you think about it Angron wasn't even himself by that point. I'm not justifing what he did, but he was the only primarch with no powers and that may have to do with his brain being cut to ribbons and put together, wich may have also taken that feeling of respect the astartes have for their primarch (but in the situation you are describing they had VERY good reasons). Overall I love the world eaters becouse they are the only legion wich we don't know the full potential, they didn't get a fully powered primarch and we aren't even sure their role (shock assault specialists) was theirs to begin with. I think that the return of a SANE Angron would be a MASSIVE impact on the story, just becouse he would probably wish to redeem himself or his sons memory for what he made them do in his insanity.
@@kinguchiha6212 I always read that as an unconscious plea to have someone come and kill him. "I'm committing these crimes against your warriors, I'm disobeying these orders, I'm going MIA all the time, I'm genociding entire planets for no reason, WHY WON'T YOU KILL ME?? WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET YOU TO KILL ME?? I'm going to just keep on committing these crimes until someone comes and kills me, PLEASE DO IT SOON!" Like a "suicide by cop" that happens far too frequently, where the person wants to die but can't pull the trigger themselves, they try to get someone else to kill them, Angron couldn't simply take a Thunderhawk and pilot it into a sun, he had to have someone else kill him. (though that could be one hell of a Grim-Dark story, having a World Eater watch as Angron takes a Thunderhawk and tries again, and again, and again, to fly into a sun, only to have SOMETHING come up to make him turn away at the last minute, and come to the realization that there's something programmed into him that won't let him commit suicide - he has to be killed by someone else. What's it going to take to get someone else to finally kill him...?)
@@N0TYALC Except he didn’t force them. The World Eaters chose to implant the nails to be more like their gene father and to suffer like he suffers. He didn’t necessarily try to stop em tho nor did he particularly care what they did in general. Hell I’d be surprised if he even bothered to learn their names
Angron is the most emphatic Primarch; he instinctively knows how human emotions work. Even a pure Grey Knight like Teloman couldn't resist the persuasion of anger and hate inflicted by Angron himself In the novel Angron the Red angel from David Guymer.
I have a feeling that for the Primarch Project, Angron was originally designed to be a defensive strategist who would protect newly-conquered worlds. A leader who cared for his soldiers and prisoners alike. But the Warp twisted this fate, and made him the most violent and brutal of the Primarchs.
@Keram-io8hv, yes, he improved in this one, particularly in representing who Angron is and making him more complex than just a raging dumb barbarian. He delved into how Angron caused suffering among his sons, leading them to fall to chaos. There's a side story about a chaos marine that I didn't love, but the book itself is very funny and epic to read."
Angron was trying to save his people and big e ripped him away from that war. Causing his followers to be slaughtered to the man as the cried for their champion to rescue them. Fully aware of his followers death's and the cost of his removal the guilt and grief are what he brought into the imperium with
Angron intended to lead his troops into a suicide charge. He wanted to die on his planet. He could have offered his loyalty in exchange for the Emperor saving his people and punishing those that kept him in chains but he didn’t. Granted, The Emperor never offered that either. Hell he could have just had his troops run ahead of Angron and his gladiators and bring the planet into compliance by force before he could even have the opportunity to fight.
Worst yet is that the Nucerian slaver lords branded him a coward who abandoned his people when the fight turned, which understandably made him even more bitter
It would be cool if Roboute met Angron on that world. If he could save the slave and him, Angron and Roboute would be bestest friends. And a nightmare for the Traitors if the World Eater stood loyal for the Imperium. And even a more, hellish nightmare if they ever face Angron.
@@shadowshandbroWhat are you going 'THIS' at? You've constantly said that it was Angron's fault for becoming a slave to chaos. You said that he became a slave to Khorne because, and I quote, "he couldn't rise above his failures." Hell one of the delusional people that agree with you said he begged Sanguineous not to kill him but he shouted "No!" Because Lorgar, the bitch, turned him into a deamon Primarch, making him effectively immortal, when all he wanted was death. Furthermore, the Imperium took EVERYTHING from him. He hated his legion because it represented what took everything from him. He never got help from the Imperium, he never got anything he wanted from the Imperium. he never got peace from Imperium. But after all that Khorne gave Angron what no one had bothered to try and give him. Khorne gave Angron peace. For 8 weeks, 8 days, 8 hours, and 8 seconds. Angron was forced into a choice that was made for him as soon as he was 'saved' by the Emperor. You are why I hate the cult-like state of the Imperium. You are blind yet you call the others, that can see clearly the truth, what you truly are. You shall get no further response from me blindman.
To a degree, Roboute was right. Angron had moments where he was quite eloquent and "free" to a degree from the Nails's influence, he had the chance to find a new family in his sons and yet he brutally killed them, butchered planets even after they surrendered and blamed BIG E for everything. Angron is tragic and one of the best characters in the HH books, but Roboute was right: Angron was blinded by his hatred and his past. Unable to move on and partially it was his fault
Yeah, but it's kinda difficult not to be blinded by hatred when you have something in your brain that punishes anything other than hate and violence. And considering that the pain from the Nails, a constant reminder of his past as a slave, it would be difficult to move on too.
Angron wanted to die. No one would kill him. And whenever he came closest... he was "saved" by an outside force who put their own needs above Angron's. The Emperor wanted his Primarch. Lorgar wanted his friend (and probably a whole lot of rewards from Khorne, but Lorgar really did seem to like Angron). Neither of them truly cared about what Angron wanted. After he was "saved" by the Emperor, his entire life was being WORSE than the High Riders - the High Riders never tried to claim that what they did was for the "good of humanity", they were honest about their brutality and cruelty. The Emperor sent him to make slaves out of entire worlds. His "sons" saw nothing wrong in this. Almost no one even QUESTIONED this at all - big Sparkly DADDY shows up and says "Come with me, i have a job for you." and (literally?) every other Primarch ends up jumping for joy and following. Pretty much every Astartes is conditioned to obey this without question - they're essentially just a bunch of slaves. So now he's being forced - like a slave, he has no choice in the matter - to lead a bunch of other slaves (who likewise have no choice in the matter) into making the entire galaxy slaves of the Emperor, and their only choices are submit or die. Why would "move on" from his past when he's almost literally reliving it every single day, except he's now both Slave AND High-Rider? Every single time he see's a World Eater, he's seeing a Slave who is overjoyed at being a slave. Every time he's given an order to take a world, he's being ordered to be a High Rider and to turn them into slaves. Every human on board his ships are slaves - some of them literally slaves, some of them just effectively slaves who have chosen to have SOME degree of control over their lives by choosing to a higher ranking of slave. No one cares what he does with them - he can kill them without any actual punishment, he can send thousands off to die in pointless attacks, he can order decimation of his Astartes with no actual repercussions, no one cares about them - they're all just tools to be used and discarded. Human tools. Slaves. It's only when he might be damaging the tools - implanting the Nails in the World Eaters - that the Emperor actually takes SOME kind of action. And for what? What does Angron know about WHY the Emperor is doing this? What do ANY of the Primarchs know about it? How many of them even care to even ask that question seriously? Dorn and Robute and the others like to talk about making life better for people, but it's better from their perspective, imposing it on other people and those other people have no choice in the matter - so is it really making life better for them? Or is it making life easier for the Imperium? For the Emperor?
@@vladimirthegreen6097as far as I’m aware he didn’t care about a single one of them, he probably had some shred of bias towards those who took the nails because Angron is like that but he would butcher them still if they opposed him or didn’t meet his insane demands. He was impressed when the first marine took the nails sure, but that could just be because it was an imitation of the nails that they weren’t really sure of. That’s just being ballsy not respectable.
Loved betrayer! Gave us a glimpse of why guilliman's ultramar was so effective, gave angron some much needed character development and I got to hear Erebus getting the shit kicked out of him by kharn!
Ah yes, the "I had a crappy childhood and you didnt, so obviously you know nothing" argument that does the very thing they are seemingly arguing against. Judging the other person without knowing them....seriousily just becausr someone has a good upbringing doesnt mean they didnt struggle in other ways. Things like constantly struggling to NOT give in to their anger, etc.
‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’ Daddy Blue Berry immediately after.
Except there is little truth to what he said and he is ultimately a massive hypocrite (very similar to mortarion). He talks about courage yet uses his gifts to trod and oppress anything weaker than him. And funnily enough for someone who preaches courage, freedom and overcoming those that restrict you… he not only once but twice made the choice to be a slave to a new master. He never stopped being a slave.
@@draketurtle4169 nah bro I listened to both sides and I see who is correct here and who isn’t. You’re just coping for Smurf Daddy. This is ONE L in several lifetimes of wins, just grow up and take it
If I had an interdimensional time machine, I'd save Angron. I'm wondering if there will ever be a chance to perfectly clone Angron, like GW did with Fulgrim.
There is a theory that I love and personally ascribe to: had Angron not suffered the Butcher's nails, he would've prevented the Heresy... or at the very least, delayed it to a more optimum time for the Emperor and Malchidor's plans.
People who do wrong always have plenty of excuses. Some of them are even valid. But at the end of the day, we all live in a world shaped by our choices and Angron, like all the others, doesn't want to take responsibility for his. So he lashes out instead. He could have chosen to rise above his past and be better. Instead he mutilated his legion to be like him and led them to destruction.
Angron is like the person who had a shit life. So much so. He can’t move on. Cause without the pain, he doesn’t know who he could be. He holds on. Cause at least the pain is real. Pain doesn’t lie to him. Pain isn’t a mystery. Pain is absolute.
Angron was the most interesting primarch from a narrativeperspective. He had real reason to hate big E and the imperium. The eldar attack, butcher's nails and the emperor's mistreatment sent him down the path he went. wish gw would do him justice in the most recent lore
Lion El'Jonson landed in jungles infested with chaos beasts, vanquished them all, and didn't bitch about it. Angron failed to kill the slavers, conquer the planet, and never stopped whining.
@@freakymoejoe2Oh definitely, but underneath his rant, Angron clearly wanted freedom at heart, and Roboute understood that, hence why he stated ‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’ Angron traded one tyrant for another, and then another, and is still a slave come 40K. Roboute was right.
Angron is perhaps the most tragic. Each Primarch was designed to THE BEST at something. Roboute was the best at civil adminstration, Magnus was best with Psyker powers, Dorn was best with building fortifications, Perturabo was best at ATTACKING fortifications, and so on. Angron was designed to be the best at Military Strategy, yet the nails rendered him barely better than an animal.
To me, Angron is simply the epitome of tragedy. He was born to be a healer, a machine made for compassion and love, and yet he was turned into a monster knowing only rage. He never wanted this. He never wanted to be a villain as a child. He didn’t want the nails. He was nurtured into being a beast, but he was born to be a hero amongst heroes. Wroth low, he is an animal now. But upon high he would have been an angel next to his brother bearing wings of honor instead of feather. Tragedy made manifest.
This makes Angron come across as worse, not better. He’s cognizant enough to make this argument, that means he definitely realizes he’s a mass murderer of innocent humans on a scale that none of his other brothers could match pre-corruption of Horus.
Angron is 40k's Spartacus btw. Not sure how many people know this, but read about Spartacus' life on Wikipedia and you'll see the parallels immediately.
Despite he cries the Ultramarines to have false honor, and being meer subjects to a tyrant. For someone who think honor is having to resist a tyrant, he'd sure subjected himself to the worst tyrant you could ever imagine serving under..
Roboute; sent to space Rome 😄
Angron; sent to space Rome 😭
Roboute: send to caesar imperial palece
Angron: crash landing into colosseum
@@jsomeone3108 Basically Megamind and Metroman if their powers were switched but their circumstances weren't
Nuceria is literally New Syria. Syria during the roman empire is a lot like nuceria in 30k.
Angron: Gee thanks mom
Seriously i wonder, if Guilliman had landed on nuceria and angron on ultramar what could have been the results.
I appreciate the old school picture of Ultramarines
The Horus Hersey: Collected Visions is a treasure for any 40k oldschool fan.
I've got the Ultramarines board game that has it on the box front.
@@TKUltra971such a treasure of a book that so many havent even heard of, let alone seen
Damm for being the least mentally healthy man in the room angron sure is spitting bars right here
Except hes wrong sure gulliman had a better up bringing so hes a bad example amgron wouldnt dare say this to Russ or Vulkan
@@christophercombs7561Russ and Vulkan have a good childhood. Russ was raised by chieftain of tribe and became his successor. Vulkan have family who raised him
@vladimirthegreen6097 russ was raised in the most brutal environment possible the same with many other primarchs tribal nordic culture amped up to 100 isnt conducive to a soft easy childhood my guy
@@christophercombs7561But what did the people in his tribe call him. Son, hero, etc. Angron was called a slave and had no father
@danielburks2257 another perhaps more accurate one is the lion he landed on caliban and effectively lived by himself for nearly his whole childhood
Angron reasonably never got over being taken from his peoples final stand
That is what makes him so tragic.
People seem to forget he has literally zero reason to share any love for anything in the imperium, including his own astartes
Very similer to mortarion
Big E could just come down there and fight alongside him and you would have the most loyal angron ever. His petty reason not to saved his son people lead him to what his is now.
@sirDAMO57 at least with Morty, Big E won the battle for him. Angron just got snatched.
angron was so real for this
Dodging accountability more like lol
@@DreadPages ?? Rowboat Girlyman fan?
@@pedrodontyoumind3820One doesn't have to be a fan of Roboute to know that his response was correct.
@@shadowshandbro Mald?
No Angron is a leftist woke trash with a victim mentality.
"‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’" -Guilliman's Response
Guilliman answering like Angron doesn't have an unending Torture device that has ruptured his psyche for centuries.
G-man would be equally fucked up if not more
@@Dr_Weirdoo If that is the tract we are accepting, then Angron's words are nothing more than the demented ravings of someone whose psyche has been ruptured by an unending torture device.
You don't get to have this both ways.
@@twilightwyrm difference being Angron was right
@@Dr_Weirdoo For all his rage and violence, Angron is a self-pitying coward, and engaging in spiteful self-pity. There was nothing right his words here.
@@twilightwyrm One thing doesnt cancel the other.
Angron may bitch and moan about his life a Lot, but in truth he may be (besides perhaps Lorgar) the only Primarch that deserves the Right to complain about not only the hand he was dealt but also the treatment he recieved from the Emperor
In Master of Mankind the Emperor states it clearly. EVERYTHING causes him pain, just existing puts him in excruciating pain that is only numbed by killing. Not only that, but the Butcher's nails continue to grow and consume his brain, meaning not only the Emperor can't take them out without killing him, but the pain Will just keep growing. Not only that but besides for few moments of lucidity or Angron pushing through the pain, the Nails just dull any other emotion that isn't violence to zero, Angron LITERALLY can't feel empathy most of the time.
Guilliman may think he toasted Angron with that phrase but How the fuck do You expect someone to get better when they physically fucking can't?
He can talk all the shit he wants, but Guilliman was adopted by a king, raised properly and nurtured by Konor and Tarasha.
Angron was beaten up by Eldar hours after being born, Enslaved, mutilated and lobotomized and then the only chance to die on his own terms ripped away from him as everyone he ever cared about was slaughtered.
G-Man saw the Emperor for what he stood for, an idea of a united humanity. Angron always saw him for what he was, a Tyrant that would kill anyone who didn't agree with the Idea.
Angron was perfectly fine with turning traitor, not because he hated humanity but because he hated the Emperor, and he would kill as much as necessary to fuck him over as hard as he could for taking him away from the battlefield in Nuceria
What ironic is that Gulliman snd Angron weren't that far from eachother before the Emperor found them. If Ultramar decided to expand east, things could've been drastically different
Angron would probably have been the leader of Ultramar’s armies and military while Gulliman would go full in on logistics and stuff. This is my head canon of what happens if Gulliman arrived on Angrons home planet. Personally I believe he would have recognized Angron for who he truly is the moment he lays his eyes on him.
Ultramar didn't exist until after the Emperor arrived. Angron got the nails implanted pretty quickly - it's a testament to his strength that he stayed a (broadly) functional individual for YEARS between then and the Emperor's arrival.
@locarno24 Guilliman's Mccraggian Empire did though, everyone kinda forgets that while it was nowhere near the 500 worlds, Guilliman had a multi-system empire when the Great Crusade arrived.
but yeah Angron got the nails long before Mccrag could ever have reached him. but the nails weren't what made Angron betray.
@@kazmark_gl8652ngl angron would of betrayed either way if lorgar asked nicely since that was the only primarch he got along with
@@kazmark_gl8652 no he didn't. Macragge was 'in contact with other worlds' it hadn't conquered them. At the point the Emperor reached Espandor (literally the adjacent system, who told him about Konor's son), he hadn't even finished conquering Macragge.
The one with the pre-contact interstellar empire was Dorn, not Guilliman.
This was probably the best VA for this scene I've heard the spot coming off angron just barely keeping it together mmm you really outdid for this one
Tell me about it, Angron was really holding back from throwing an axe at Rowboat
many thanks
His Mortarion vs Guilliman video also went hard.
I'm weirdly used to hearing him more as a snarly, oddly high pitched sort of guy as opposed to a low bass sort.
I would have agreed to you if it didn't remind me of Filthy Frank for a second
One of the many reasons why I hate Eredia. She knew, again she KNEW what Chaos was, how corrupting it is, and how they play the long game. Yet in her brilliance scattered the Primarchs across a ununified still tainted by Old Night galaxy. Because the Emperor created a "I Win" button mere years before rolling it out. She needs a retcon.
She isn't cannon. She is word-vomit from Dan Abnett.
Relatively new to 40k. Help me out here,is she still canon? I see her mentioned alot by fans but I haven't come across her in the books I've read so far.
she was one off and hated by the bulk of the Fandom her only retcon should involve her being Thanos snapped from existence.
@@Lunardivider24she's not canon
There is no such character in warhammer 40k, you must be lost from the greek mythology corner
The sad part? This Betrayal could have easily been avoided if the Emperor just saved Angron’s army from its annihilation, by sending in the 4 Custodes!!! to fight, and then removing the Butcher’s Nails..
Hell, it could have been avoided without the Emperor’s involvement.
Nuceria borders on Ultramar, if Guilliman’s father or Guilliman himself had expended further, the two Primarchs would have met- possibly before Angron would even get the nails.
Except even the Emperor couldn't remove the nails.
@@SoulsOnly Yeah, it's one of the main characteristics of Angron's story.
As for Big E just leaving without a long conversation, I'm pretty sure that part of the deal for the knowledge of the warpcraft to create the primarchs was that half of them would turn traitor. He knew almost instantly that Angron was permanently lost to him and didn't get emotionally invested.
@@Thalanoxthey literally make all the sense except for Fulgrim kinda wish he and the emperors children remained loyal
@@Thalanoxthat makes it an even WORSE decision. If he knew half his sons would turn, then might as well train them in such a way that their behavior is regular and predictable. Also, I somehow doubt E is ever motivated by “attachment”.
“The people of your world called you great one the people of my world called me slave” crazy line
"Yes, they did. And?"
“They called me slave and put nails in my brain, so now I’m gonna enslave/murder humanity with my army of genesons (who I will force to undergo the same brain butchery I whine about).”
-Childish Primarch
@@Briselance Ambivalent dismissal of human suffering the moment it's inconvenient to them is about how the Imperium operates.
The Imperium stands in self-righteous condemnation of everything else, nothing condemns the Imperium and lives.
@@patchwurk6652
::response to the last paragraph::
To do otherwise is to be consumed utterly and completely.
"Womp womp, big baby" -Guilliman
What's sad about this is Angron was supposed to be the kindest, next to Vulkan. Hell, maybe even above. Sadly, Emp's bastard wife believed that sending them to the galaxy's worst planets was a good idea.
Erda was right. The Emperor only wanted disposable tools of bloodshed, that's what he made the Primarchs for. Erda wanted actual sons, and she scattered them so that someone might actually raise them properly if the Emperor refused to. Surprise, surprise, the Primarchs that didn't have messed up childhoods turned out loyalists. Read Saturnine and get the full context for why Erda did what she did. It's worth it.
It is unlikely she knew where each primarch was 'sent', it was sort of random. But she did make a mistake sure. Emperor made a quite a few himself raising Angron.
Or I shouldn't say raising, neglecting is more like it...
Angron is one of those things that gives huge credit to the traitors
But like HE HAS A POINT THO LIKE XD
@@slidemguySay that to Corax.
@sigmametroid2630 Corax landed on a world where the slaves still outnumbered their leadership, and... unlike Angron, 90% of his brain wasn't replaced by a machine that makes intelligent thought literally painful. Corax, also, had a Primarch power that was useful for guerilla warfare. Angron's power was, near as we can tell, healing. Corax *also* still had the innate charisma of a primarch, which Angron lost when the nails were installed.
Like, let's be fair, Angron had the worst deal of any of the Primarchs by such a wide margin, the Emperor literally contemplates if it might be easier to remake him from scratch at one point.
Also Perterabo.
@@Mr.Monacleremake him?? How and why didn’t he
Angron had at one point known courage and honor…it died with his brothers and sisters on Nuceria
Never realized that double meaning in his words, and it only makes it sadder.
Angron was done so wrong by fate. He could've been one of the best among demigods.
He was dealt a bad hand and instead of playing it to the best of his abilities he decsended into self-pity, abused his legion and let hatred consume his very soul.
Tragic? Yes. Heroic? Far from it.
@DzinkyDzink I think the butcher's nails, the Emperor's intervention, and the eldar may have played a role in that
@@DzinkyDzink did you not read his story? he drugged to kill the only father figure he ever known.
@@DzinkyDzinkImagine using the phrase "descended into self-pity" to describe a man who had his brain cut open and pain-generating spikes shoved in, without a hint of irony
What’s ironic with this is that his “mom” did this to “protect” them.
Angron was designed to be the empathic soul of the Imperium in so many ways, his Primarch novel was really telling.
The dude was tortured and betrayed in so many ways, but even at his worst he's got a knack for connecting the emotions of others
If Angron never got the nails, the World Eaters would become Salamanders 2.0.
@@louisnall3102tbh a mix of space wolves and salamanders but yes
Didnt he also have healing powers? Anyway he was such a kind person its sad to see him fall so much
Though, Khorne gave Angron one thing no one ever gave him. Peace. After Angron blew up a planet and unleashed a rage plague. Khorne gifted Angron what the Choas God sees and experiences. For the 8 weeks, 8 days, 8 hours, and 8 seconds. Angron experiences true peace. He felt no rage, no anger, no pain. Khorne did something Big E never did for Angron. Gave him a figurative hug.
Fuck, now I am imagining the image of Khorne hugging Angron, lol. It is cursed, rofl.
@@Qardo He gave a man in hell a drop of water so he could remind him of what he'd never have. Tell me some more about the goodness of khorne.😊
Guillimans biggest mistake is thinking angron had any loyalty to the emperor ever
Gullimans biggest mistake was getting into that fight. Man crawled away by luck and by chance - Angron was not going to let him leave alive
@@mrplimbles7803 Say what you will about Guilliman, but when he gets into a fight, he commits.
@@mrplimbles7803
Angron got fucked up in that fight by Guilliman who both had his skull cracked by juiced-up Lorgar's power maul and had no energy in his power fists. He's described as having suffered serious damage before overwhelming Bobby G who was already seriously wounded and practically unarmed.
@@Darksky1001able And he lost that one XD
@@Ralldoron Think you are remembering it wrong. Gulliman had Lorgar on the back foot for their entire 1v1, and Angron popped into frame and beat him sensless. Angron stood over the downed Gulliman who was trying to crawl away.
The "good guys" are allowed to lose to better fighters, and he definately did.
I see why angron was truly angry now
Love the double meaning when talking about courage and honor, he talks about hia past, but also the present, accusing the emperor of being an enslaver and a tyrant.
Angron has a point, but he forgets, that guiliman had learned a hard lesson as well. Unlike angron, guiliman is able to take responsibility for his mistakes, angron meanwhile saw neither purpose nor love in a legion that was as honorable as he was, before the nails took away their humanity!
Why he must like someone who was created by the man in golden armor who enslaved Angron?
The moment Angron was gonna take ultimate responsibility for his actions was ripped away by the emperor when he teleported him out of that battle, left him a bit pissed lol
@@bowserbrowser6559okay but that never gave him the right to mistreat those in his rank for what the emperor did
@@InnocentThief952so your dad literally kidnaps you from battle to have you chained in a prison while your friends and what could be considered as family get obliterated while he does nothing and then gives you his soldiers how would you not be angry
@@Unregistered.Hypercam.2.See. That is why I like Angron, but as an antagonist, as it makes sense, but he still chooses to be where he is, and he can only blame himself for that. I like Angron as a character, but he is no arbiter of righteous morals.
Both watched their adoptive fathers die, the difference is Robute became his father’s avenger, while Angron was his father’s slayer.
That Angron could still be that sane and speak such truths despite the nails shows his unbreakable will for resisting all the pain
If anyone wants to see the full exchange bwtween the two, go watch Chris Glass' VA of this scene. He does some fantastic voice acting!
Edit: 216. Hot damn. Thanks for all the likes guys! For the Emperor and or let the Galaxy burn!
Link?
@@zenderthedragon don't think links work in comments. Sorry. Just search up Chris glass
@@zenderthedragonhere ya go. I personally prefer the Chris Glass version myself.
czcams.com/video/8CYU2TQD2ZQ/video.htmlsi=AmNiza2g5m8eQshV
@@zenderthedragonJust search for Chris Glass + Angron + Guilliman, but in all honesty, it doesn't hit as great as this version, not even close.
The one ultramarine in the back, “this Mf spittin”
XD
Spitting a whole heap of hot garbage that is.
Bro angron would have been so smart and wise if he didnt get done so bad in childhood
Roboute's response after Angron's remarks was much better.
What was it
@@matthewnegroe2354 “You're still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper!”
I want to know
What did he say?
"YOU are still a slave Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn, too SPITEFUL to prosper."
- Guilliman
Bro had a moment of clarity and used it to humble an entire legion
I mean it’s not like Guliman had any choice on where he was gonna land
@@Kingedwardiii2003 yeah but that’s not why Angron was mad at him Angron was mad at him because he had the nerve to call the reason that he betrayed the imperial childish
It was childish ...wah daddy saved me
@@ThorGiske that’s not the reason he betrayed the emperor and that is also not the reason he’s mad at the emperor all the emperor had to do was to either a send the custodians to help Angron or b help Angron himself He did neither of those things and teleported him away, leaving his allies to die and forever brand him a coward on that planet and then basically said fuck your feelings here’s a lesion of super soldiers that I want you to command and do as you’re fucking told
@@Fallout4277 So that gives Angron the justification to cause all the murder and destruction that he did according to you??!! Are you really petty to unironically support and justify such drivel??!!
Like MLK said “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of convenience and comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy," Angron made his choice when he made his personal torment galaxy spanning
I will remind that everything that happened to angron was the eldars fault
Hold on, big E could have removed the nails any time with some artifacts from the DAOT he just didn't feel like it
@efestohorus2053 but before all that when baby angron landed on the planet the eldar attempted to kill him and it was why he was to weak to fend off the slavers so had they not he would have been able to probably conquer the planet
@@zombiethezerker I know but that dosen't excuse big E's treatment of Angron
The Eldars? As a whole?
@Briselance well we don't know who did it so I can blame the whole gotta pull the old teacher method
The thing I love about the traitor Primarchs is that most of them truly think they are doing the right thing and aren't just cartoonishly evil without any true motivation
Except lorgar , when he talked with Magnus about lifting the veil of reality and the warp by torturing and making suffer the ultramar sector he had no valuable reason beyond just doing evil for the sake of it
Mortarian, Curze, Fulgrim, Perturabo. Just off the top of my head they had TERRIBLE reasons for turning traitor
@@Unregistered.Hypercam.2. That's why I said "most," we don't stan Lorgar in this house 😤
@@dontaejones7419 Im playing Devils advocate here but, Wasn't Logar emotionally abused by Kor and Erabus while growing up? And both of them working together to make Logar go over the edge and become a traitor?
I don't like Logar ether but...
@garrisonmoncher5461 erebus killed Logars favorite son argel tal.
First.
Also, cool speech against tyranny there angron, i hope you don't wind up the slave of a tyrannical entity, that would be sad.
Damn right. Sadly we will never know what happened to him in the end, never know...
Atleast Khorne never lies to you
I'm pretty sure that's even more reason why he's Raging all the time. Because all he wants to do is die and let this hell be over, but Khorne won't let him.
@@504godzilla
Neither did the Emperor, but then again he didn't need to lie to Angron.
The emperor said "Be my attack dog." and Angron did as he was told, even if begrudgingly.
Bro was out of options 😂 he traded one tyrant for another and at least the new one doesn’t lie to him I guess
I know this is supposed to be Angron delivering a "this is why you suck" kinda speech. . but he sounds even more pitiful and childish.
Like, dude. Roboutte lucked out, sure, but he took full advantage of his hand and made something good into something even better.
All Angron has done is be angry and sad and be a dick to people he should've treated as comrades and sons all because he didn't get his way.
To br fair, he got jumped by a bunch of eldar as soon as he arrived on his planet, and then lobotomized. Hes childish because he's never been able to develop past being a child mentally.
@@oatmealman1586 Yes. He’s still a childish, hypocritical villain, though.
*gets kidnapped from his family*
*Doesn't get along with his kidnappers*
*Cue my shock*
One had the best upbringing and took full advantage of it, becoming a shining leader, the other had everything against him from start to finish and never gave up fighting, overall an exelent example of the conflict of two respectable characters.
Except for the most part, he did give up.
Robot man responds to his remarks by saying he is still a slave which is true for all that talk of courage? He never accomplished anything with it, it never got him anywhere.
Also Angron is a bully, it is insane for him to speak of courage with how he treated everyone else.
(The world eaters who had the courage to stand up against him and call him out for his barbarism were slaughtered by him with no shred of respect or thought)
@@draketurtle4169 Good point but you have to consider that all of this is after he got kidnapped by the emperor, after this he was basically searching for a way to die, and after all the people you ever cared for are dead what reason do you have to be nice? And remember that he was still dying, in constant pain and without his primarch powers. He gave up but becouse he was dead inside by that point.
@@TheWoodsman308 I mean his own legion nearly killed him ot at least from their perspective thought they might have when using their warp powers to try and calm him.
@@draketurtle4169 But if you think about it Angron wasn't even himself by that point. I'm not justifing what he did, but he was the only primarch with no powers and that may have to do with his brain being cut to ribbons and put together, wich may have also taken that feeling of respect the astartes have for their primarch (but in the situation you are describing they had VERY good reasons). Overall I love the world eaters becouse they are the only legion wich we don't know the full potential, they didn't get a fully powered primarch and we aren't even sure their role (shock assault specialists) was theirs to begin with. I think that the return of a SANE Angron would be a MASSIVE impact on the story, just becouse he would probably wish to redeem himself or his sons memory for what he made them do in his insanity.
I understand why Angron is angry.
But while being abused can explain why you are an abuser; it does not excuse it.
What about the super angry nails in his brain that the Big E couldn’t remove??
@@kinguchiha6212You mean the same super angry nails that he forced his sons to have implanted?
@@N0TYALC yea I will admit that was a massive dick move
@@kinguchiha6212 I always read that as an unconscious plea to have someone come and kill him. "I'm committing these crimes against your warriors, I'm disobeying these orders, I'm going MIA all the time, I'm genociding entire planets for no reason, WHY WON'T YOU KILL ME?? WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET YOU TO KILL ME?? I'm going to just keep on committing these crimes until someone comes and kills me, PLEASE DO IT SOON!"
Like a "suicide by cop" that happens far too frequently, where the person wants to die but can't pull the trigger themselves, they try to get someone else to kill them, Angron couldn't simply take a Thunderhawk and pilot it into a sun, he had to have someone else kill him. (though that could be one hell of a Grim-Dark story, having a World Eater watch as Angron takes a Thunderhawk and tries again, and again, and again, to fly into a sun, only to have SOMETHING come up to make him turn away at the last minute, and come to the realization that there's something programmed into him that won't let him commit suicide - he has to be killed by someone else. What's it going to take to get someone else to finally kill him...?)
@@N0TYALC Except he didn’t force them. The World Eaters chose to implant the nails to be more like their gene father and to suffer like he suffers. He didn’t necessarily try to stop em tho nor did he particularly care what they did in general. Hell I’d be surprised if he even bothered to learn their names
Angron is the most emphatic Primarch; he instinctively knows how human emotions work. Even a pure Grey Knight like Teloman couldn't resist the persuasion of anger and hate inflicted by Angron himself
In the novel Angron the Red angel from David Guymer.
I have a feeling that for the Primarch Project, Angron was originally designed to be a defensive strategist who would protect newly-conquered worlds. A leader who cared for his soldiers and prisoners alike.
But the Warp twisted this fate, and made him the most violent and brutal of the Primarchs.
Was that book good?
I still hold grudge against Guymer to what he done with Gotrek and Felix, so curious if he improved
@Keram-io8hv, yes, he improved in this one, particularly in representing who Angron is and making him more complex than just a raging dumb barbarian. He delved into how Angron caused suffering among his sons, leading them to fall to chaos. There's a side story about a chaos marine that I didn't love, but the book itself is very funny and epic to read."
I like how crunchy angron’s voice is 😭
That’s when Robute goes ” damn I didn’t know you could speak without yelling”
Guilliman comeback to all that angron said was perfect tho
The saddest part is that Angron was probably originally meant to be a healer from his Primarch gifts, and now he’s just… this
"And you are still a slave, a slave you shall remain"
I just realized ultramarines are what closest there is to loyalist Emperor's Children.
OFCOURSE Angron detests them.
Elaborate please
@@efestohorus2053He's making a comparison, with a shoutout to the Dornian Heresy.
Ultramarines have perfectionist traits, like the Emperor's Children.
@@efestohorus2053 blueberry shoulderpad much gold
the fact that he was supposed to be a healer when you look to his power is even sader
Angron is literally the future portrayel of nature versus nurture
Angron was trying to save his people and big e ripped him away from that war. Causing his followers to be slaughtered to the man as the cried for their champion to rescue them. Fully aware of his followers death's and the cost of his removal the guilt and grief are what he brought into the imperium with
Angron intended to lead his troops into a suicide charge. He wanted to die on his planet. He could have offered his loyalty in exchange for the Emperor saving his people and punishing those that kept him in chains but he didn’t. Granted, The Emperor never offered that either. Hell he could have just had his troops run ahead of Angron and his gladiators and bring the planet into compliance by force before he could even have the opportunity to fight.
Worst yet is that the Nucerian slaver lords branded him a coward who abandoned his people when the fight turned, which understandably made him even more bitter
Anfron was leading them into a suicidal last stand!!
No mercy for angron, angron the oathbreaker, angron the betrayer.
Guilliman did have the superpower of being raised by a mother and father, it's true.
Absolutely loving their voices man! So much freaking emotion and rage, so many pent up voices getting out, you can really feel it…
Oof not gonna lie Roboute got grilled right there.
It would be cool if Roboute met Angron on that world.
If he could save the slave and him, Angron and Roboute would be bestest friends.
And a nightmare for the Traitors if the World Eater stood loyal for the Imperium.
And even a more, hellish nightmare if they ever face Angron.
I didn't catch "the Macraggian high riders" before. Angron saw the trauma of his upbringing everywhere.
The tragedy of brothers, fighting in brutal bloodshed over unshakeable values, of which they are both correct, and both, for the wrong reasons.
Angron really hit Guilliman with "You know nothing, Jon Snow" 💀
Love the voice they gave angron
Okay but he didn't actually counter the blueberry's point.
Blueberry clapped back with a better answer.
@@burniejarvis9298 Hmm. What did he say after that?
@@CountSpartulahe basically said angrons problem is that his past is blinding him to the future and he’s still a slave his past (to paraphrase)
@@polkka7797 Thank you
@CountSpartula ‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’
Bottom line, all of the emperor's son payed for the mistakes of their father's poor judgment.
THIS.
I would say Guilliman benefited. He already had his own empire and he had a good enough head on his shoulders.
@@shadowshandbroWhat are you going 'THIS' at? You've constantly said that it was Angron's fault for becoming a slave to chaos. You said that he became a slave to Khorne because, and I quote, "he couldn't rise above his failures." Hell one of the delusional people that agree with you said he begged Sanguineous not to kill him but he shouted "No!" Because Lorgar, the bitch, turned him into a deamon Primarch, making him effectively immortal, when all he wanted was death.
Furthermore, the Imperium took EVERYTHING from him. He hated his legion because it represented what took everything from him. He never got help from the Imperium, he never got anything he wanted from the Imperium. he never got peace from Imperium. But after all that Khorne gave Angron what no one had bothered to try and give him. Khorne gave Angron peace. For 8 weeks, 8 days, 8 hours, and 8 seconds. Angron was forced into a choice that was made for him as soon as he was 'saved' by the Emperor.
You are why I hate the cult-like state of the Imperium. You are blind yet you call the others, that can see clearly the truth, what you truly are.
You shall get no further response from me blindman.
Angron would have a point if he wasn't literally serving Hell
To a degree, Roboute was right. Angron had moments where he was quite eloquent and "free" to a degree from the Nails's influence, he had the chance to find a new family in his sons and yet he brutally killed them, butchered planets even after they surrendered and blamed BIG E for everything.
Angron is tragic and one of the best characters in the HH books, but Roboute was right: Angron was blinded by his hatred and his past. Unable to move on and partially it was his fault
Angron respect some of his astartes
Yeah, but it's kinda difficult not to be blinded by hatred when you have something in your brain that punishes anything other than hate and violence. And considering that the pain from the Nails, a constant reminder of his past as a slave, it would be difficult to move on too.
@@ChaosSandwich and Therapy died out during the Long Night so any other method of help was non-existent.
Angron wanted to die.
No one would kill him. And whenever he came closest... he was "saved" by an outside force who put their own needs above Angron's. The Emperor wanted his Primarch. Lorgar wanted his friend (and probably a whole lot of rewards from Khorne, but Lorgar really did seem to like Angron). Neither of them truly cared about what Angron wanted.
After he was "saved" by the Emperor, his entire life was being WORSE than the High Riders - the High Riders never tried to claim that what they did was for the "good of humanity", they were honest about their brutality and cruelty. The Emperor sent him to make slaves out of entire worlds. His "sons" saw nothing wrong in this. Almost no one even QUESTIONED this at all - big Sparkly DADDY shows up and says "Come with me, i have a job for you." and (literally?) every other Primarch ends up jumping for joy and following. Pretty much every Astartes is conditioned to obey this without question - they're essentially just a bunch of slaves.
So now he's being forced - like a slave, he has no choice in the matter - to lead a bunch of other slaves (who likewise have no choice in the matter) into making the entire galaxy slaves of the Emperor, and their only choices are submit or die. Why would "move on" from his past when he's almost literally reliving it every single day, except he's now both Slave AND High-Rider? Every single time he see's a World Eater, he's seeing a Slave who is overjoyed at being a slave. Every time he's given an order to take a world, he's being ordered to be a High Rider and to turn them into slaves. Every human on board his ships are slaves - some of them literally slaves, some of them just effectively slaves who have chosen to have SOME degree of control over their lives by choosing to a higher ranking of slave. No one cares what he does with them - he can kill them without any actual punishment, he can send thousands off to die in pointless attacks, he can order decimation of his Astartes with no actual repercussions, no one cares about them - they're all just tools to be used and discarded. Human tools. Slaves. It's only when he might be damaging the tools - implanting the Nails in the World Eaters - that the Emperor actually takes SOME kind of action.
And for what? What does Angron know about WHY the Emperor is doing this? What do ANY of the Primarchs know about it? How many of them even care to even ask that question seriously? Dorn and Robute and the others like to talk about making life better for people, but it's better from their perspective, imposing it on other people and those other people have no choice in the matter - so is it really making life better for them? Or is it making life easier for the Imperium? For the Emperor?
@@vladimirthegreen6097as far as I’m aware he didn’t care about a single one of them, he probably had some shred of bias towards those who took the nails because Angron is like that but he would butcher them still if they opposed him or didn’t meet his insane demands.
He was impressed when the first marine took the nails sure, but that could just be because it was an imitation of the nails that they weren’t really sure of.
That’s just being ballsy not respectable.
I still cant believe Angeon was meant to be ghe nicest of all the primarchs in terms of helping people
I imagine those nails are a bitch
Robute: "So what you are basically saying is Corax is the most courageous and brave of us all? Glad he's on our side then"
Angron: **Is defeated**
Loved betrayer! Gave us a glimpse of why guilliman's ultramar was so effective, gave angron some much needed character development and I got to hear Erebus getting the shit kicked out of him by kharn!
He's still in the wrong, but he does have a point.
I love this speech so much, I actually did it for my public speaking class, went well
I still think no matter where guilliman landed he'd have been great and stayed a loyalist
Angron punches with words confirmed, I love it
Ah yes, the "I had a crappy childhood and you didnt, so obviously you know nothing" argument that does the very thing they are seemingly arguing against. Judging the other person without knowing them....seriousily just becausr someone has a good upbringing doesnt mean they didnt struggle in other ways. Things like constantly struggling to NOT give in to their anger, etc.
Had the Big E saved the gladiator army he would have had a truly loyal son.
1 custodes was all it would take, the emperor even waited his people get massacred in orbit.
‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’ Daddy Blue Berry immediately after.
Angron is literally the only known primarch to have failed to conquer or rule his world. Rowboat is right in this case he's a whiny child
This is why angron is respected while guilliman is mocked.
Some of the stories about angron before the heresy are crazy mans a beast
Angron is truthful and righteous in his Hatred and resentment.
Except there is little truth to what he said and he is ultimately a massive hypocrite (very similar to mortarion).
He talks about courage yet uses his gifts to trod and oppress anything weaker than him.
And funnily enough for someone who preaches courage, freedom and overcoming those that restrict you… he not only once but twice made the choice to be a slave to a new master.
He never stopped being a slave.
As the emperor sacrifices a million souls a day.
@@draketurtle4169
@@draketurtle4169bruh just take the L the copium is crazy
@@Chemtrooper46 the only one coping is you.
@@draketurtle4169 nah bro I listened to both sides and I see who is correct here and who isn’t. You’re just coping for Smurf Daddy. This is ONE L in several lifetimes of wins, just grow up and take it
Angron can justify as much as he likes. His actions lead to no right and no improvement. Just to a deeper hole of more of what he complains so much
This goes SO hard, damn
If I had an interdimensional time machine, I'd save Angron.
I'm wondering if there will ever be a chance to perfectly clone Angron, like GW did with Fulgrim.
There is a theory that I love and personally ascribe to: had Angron not suffered the Butcher's nails, he would've prevented the Heresy... or at the very least, delayed it to a more optimum time for the Emperor and Malchidor's plans.
Ppl always ommit the rebuttal of guillliman. "You are still a slave Angron a slave of your past" *mic dtop*
Imagine Big E would have been able to get those nails out of Angron. How bad ass would that loyal World Eaters Legion be?
Angron really hit row boat with “cOAraGE aNd hONoR” lol.
I feel like the fact that he’s now an insane daemon prince really undermines his argument
People who do wrong always have plenty of excuses. Some of them are even valid. But at the end of the day, we all live in a world shaped by our choices and Angron, like all the others, doesn't want to take responsibility for his. So he lashes out instead. He could have chosen to rise above his past and be better. Instead he mutilated his legion to be like him and led them to destruction.
Angron is like the person who had a shit life. So much so. He can’t move on. Cause without the pain, he doesn’t know who he could be. He holds on. Cause at least the pain is real. Pain doesn’t lie to him. Pain isn’t a mystery. Pain is absolute.
they chose to take the nails hoping it would make the bond between legion and leader stronger
Angron is the person who want make his own problem in your problem. Angron dosent deserve our respect.
Too spiteful to learn, too stubborn to understand
As if having a harder background justifies becoming a literal demon...
Great voice acting!
Argron is like the soyjak meme crying to Guilliman 😂😂😂😂
The mans spitting facts.
Angron had the best reason for turning traitor.
The betrayer is a great read I recommend it as this is where that quote is from
counter point Sanguinius on Baal , corvus on his planet
Te ardes mucho Angrooon 😎
-Guillichad
I'll never not feel bad for Angron
Angron was the most interesting primarch from a narrativeperspective. He had real reason to hate big E and the imperium. The eldar attack, butcher's nails and the emperor's mistreatment sent him down the path he went. wish gw would do him justice in the most recent lore
Lion El'Jonson landed in jungles infested with chaos beasts, vanquished them all, and didn't bitch about it. Angron failed to kill the slavers, conquer the planet, and never stopped whining.
That is why the Lion is my favorite. He legitimately knew of so many hardships and yet came out on top.
Man just told roboute to check his priviledge
Privilege and freedom of slavery are not mutual.
@@shadowshandbro not being a slave could be considered a priviledge...
That said RG was deffo also just priviledged in general
@@freakymoejoe2Oh definitely, but underneath his rant, Angron clearly wanted freedom at heart, and Roboute understood that, hence why he stated ‘You’re still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.’ Angron traded one tyrant for another, and then another, and is still a slave come 40K.
Roboute was right.
@shadowshandbro It's sad. He left the chains of Nuceria for the chains of the Blood God.
Angron is perhaps the most tragic. Each Primarch was designed to THE BEST at something. Roboute was the best at civil adminstration, Magnus was best with Psyker powers, Dorn was best with building fortifications, Perturabo was best at ATTACKING fortifications, and so on. Angron was designed to be the best at Military Strategy, yet the nails rendered him barely better than an animal.
Learning about Angron convinced me to be a chaos boy
you mean autistic
To me, Angron is simply the epitome of tragedy.
He was born to be a healer, a machine made for compassion and love, and yet he was turned into a monster knowing only rage. He never wanted this. He never wanted to be a villain as a child. He didn’t want the nails. He was nurtured into being a beast, but he was born to be a hero amongst heroes.
Wroth low, he is an animal now. But upon high he would have been an angel next to his brother bearing wings of honor instead of feather.
Tragedy made manifest.
This makes Angron come across as worse, not better. He’s cognizant enough to make this argument, that means he definitely realizes he’s a mass murderer of innocent humans on a scale that none of his other brothers could match pre-corruption of Horus.
Never got why the emperor didn’t save angron and his army and then could have angron go to planets similar to his during the crusade
Angron is 40k's Spartacus btw. Not sure how many people know this, but read about Spartacus' life on Wikipedia and you'll see the parallels immediately.
Despite he cries the Ultramarines to have false honor, and being meer subjects to a tyrant. For someone who think honor is having to resist a tyrant, he'd sure subjected himself to the worst tyrant you could ever imagine serving under..
To be fair, he just wanted to die. He never wanted to ascend to daemon Prince hood, he just got forced by Logar