This exactly. For something that should have been an endgame mode, they made it too damn easy to clear it with random ass undergeared characters. I wouldn't care much about it if it didn't straight up replace one abyss rotation a month
It's because it takes inspiration from them. It is modeled after Triumphant Frenzy which also had mixed views. It has a personality to it, but it also tried to do too much like an event rather than staple game mode genres like roguelikes, but it fails at what roguelikes do- make you more powerful over time with different builds in buffs.
@@legendnbg97 To be fair, the abyss is still there if you want to do it. We'll still get one new abyss with each patch. The only thing that changed about the spiral abyss is the reset, i.e. fewer rewards. But everyone who plays this game is a gacha addict and can't enjoy something that doesn't come with primogems...
@@SillyPutty125 Abyss isn't hard nor fun enough to do it without rewards attached to it, but theater is much worse, to the point that i wouldn't even do it if they kept abyss rewards the sams.
Genshin's combat system is centered around elemental reactions. Limiting that with element restrictions and character randomness loses the main aspect of the game's combat. Not to mention that more than half of the characters are tied with another character and/or elemental reactions.
In my perspective as vertical investment player. Most of my build are unique and based on strict team composition. For example using the exile on bennet to minimize ER req. Now 3 of my char tied to bennet will require additional ER which means changing their artifact in order to use them properly. This in the end forces you to use "average" jack of all trades artifact and restrict your creativity to build a teams. Then you need play abyss using team with relatively lower damage output, that or manually switch artifact without loadout feature.
@@LandryArri quite the opposite, actually. limiting the elements, allows players to be more creative with the teams instead of reusing your same boring ass meta team comps. "jack of trade artifacts" is just another word for you screwing up artifact farming. it means youve fallen in artifact traps usable to only 1 or 2 units. this enggame/event is horrible in many things, but it seems your problems on it are caused by your own unwise actions. "vertical investment"? come on. that's just sugarcoating a person who's gullible enough to waste resources on a gacha. . atleast you're right with the loadouts. it's friggin shitty that effing mihoyo released a half ass roguelike without a real functioning artifact loadout first.
@@mikkunmikkichi3762@mikkunmikkichi3762 There's no experimenting with limited teams when said characters are random. Verticle investment is literally the smartest way to play the game as resin exists and you only need two teams to beat abyss. Horizontal investment is only really available for people with either unlimited time or people who refresh resin (whales). For everyone else it's just dumb because you spread your resources too thin
@@ravenastray9468 fair point. But this can be easily solved if the boons themselves are actually useful. Making reactions somewhat fun to play around. By giving them new functions Example: Crystallize reactions explode when destroyed Overload leaves a ticking bomb on enemies that explode when exposed to pyro etc. This could make the combat repetitive because players will try new Playstyles as they progress. The random characters are still a pain though. It's a shitty concept imo. Why make a combat centered mode when the combat itself is flawed. The fact that you have to use 4 characters and then stay on 1-2 characters because the other 2 is unsynergistic is beyond garbage. Wasting resources to upgrade and play characters only for them to become fodder because they cannot synergize well without their respective supports is just ehhh.
boons are so restrictive they might as well go full illusive realm and make character specific absurd buffs. "when bond of life changes, increase attack" wow groundbreaking stuff
Insult to injury: The latest “endgame content” requires you to have specific characters at level 90 *and* have a friendship level of at least 8 with the characters in question.
This video is 10/10 - You criticized while being constructive - Suggested improvements - Addressed the haters as haters The CC space needs more people like you and not braindead haters!
Absolutely true summed up everything I wanted to say. And even the thing I never thought of the, Why is the combat in a simple circle on a plain field. Why not on a mountain or on a bridge where melee chars have an advantage how about on the sea shore where you get free hydro app if enemies ai can be manipulated correctly. It's a genius idea now just feel even worse thinking abt this gamemode.
ignorant take when most players leave "constructive criticism" either everybody disregards it because it doesn't align with popular belief (aka criticizing hsr community's beloved game) or it doesn't reach enough attention for it to matter. So pretty much you're just saying nobody should state their opinion because only the content creator's opinion matters anyway. that doesn't make the average critique a "braindead hater" it just means they sum up their words in a st.pid way you don't like. and when ppl leave essays like this most people aren't bothered to read anyways lol
HEAVY on the uninspired arenas. I never understood why abyss or some form of late game combat trial wouldnt have something like an "abyss backpack" where maybe you stumble across materials to craft certain food buffs or potions to aid u on your journey through the abyss. like it feels so obvious that they should use their open world aspect in the end game, but they literally just ignore it
I immediately imagined some sort of a challenge where you’ll have to collect as much berries/apples or some other stuff from a location that’s within the range of the arena to get something like 10 atk per berry and 100 hp per apple buff. Some characters would shine there, especially if they’ll add an opportunity to choose the party for such levels. Just wanted to share the idea 🌸
Omg yes, like have some special materials exclusive to the endgame area that'll make you able to craft food or potions or whatever that give good buffs, and u can only find a crafting table after 5 stages or so
Players: Labyrinth Warriors looks really good, we want it as endgame content! Genshin devs: *Implements random combat event with annoying vigor system, which is probably the worst combat system among all their combat events as the actual second "endgame" while butchering Spiral Abyss in the process* Labyrinth Warriors: Am I joke to you?
The worst part of the vigor implementation is that they removed the one good thing from it for theater; being able to slot less units and save some for later. Which at least gave you more freedom for planning.
I literally had an idea in my head of making some sort of randomly generated domain style thingy instead of IT and you're telling me it already existed??????
If there were 'paths' in terms of the buffs they give you it would be sooooo cool Think about it, a path for each element Make anemo give a crap ton of Cool Down Reduction Make electro not spend energy and instead use your energy as fuel for more damage (like Sethos) Make hydro turn your healing into damage, similar to clam Make pyro increase your burst damage by a huge ammount but drain your HP everytime you use it Make geo have infinite stagger res and get more damage based on how much hp and def you have Make cryo give you a crap ton of attackspeed Make dendro give your characters a crap ton of elemental mastery and elemental damage I don't know man, these ideas are so free I'M JUST A RANDOM PERSON IN A CZcams COMMENT AND IT TOOK ME LESS THAN 3 MINUTES TO COME UP WITH ALL OF THESE help
at least I can try to solo/duo at 9/10 or even 11, in Theater you just can't, you need to use 4 characters and even if you don't touch on it, it will consume uses... that's the biggest problem imo
I already said this is in a post but I'll say it again here. I think the best they could do is either make it so you can play underleveled units or not require a full team of 4 to clear a stage. What's the point of making me waste a potentially useful unit if I can already clear that stage with 2 or 3 characters? If they let you bring characters under level 70 you could just slap them on a lvl 1 support weapon, full support artifact set and "waste" them as the last slot in those teams AND people who don't have enough units leveled could at least attempt it instead of being completely locked out (ik there's lower difficulties but you won't get all the rewards that way) I genuinely enjoyed playing it despite the issues but that stuff definitely annoyed me
My first thoughts after playing through this mode was basically "Spiral Abyss 2: Electric Boogaloo, but with arbitrarily limited character selection and now you have to pay for buffs". And on the topic of Genshin combat as a whole, I haven't followed this entire twitter discussion but I feel like everyone there is missing the point or arguing different things entirely. Not even comparing combat in Genshin to WuWa or any other game, it has massive issue of putting almost all of its complexity into elemental reaction system. And it is fun at first, but if you really take a step back and look at it, it really hurts the game. Because reaction system is closed, no matter what characters you put there (and usually you recycle the same characters anyway), you still playing the same team and playstyle differences are superficial, in the end i.e. vaporize team plays the same, because it has to do that to be a vaporize team. In Genshin you "play a team, not a character", and that's not a good thing, honestly. It led to extremely shallow character kits, an absolute domination of Hydro (that will not go away), vast majority of "playstyles" being just E->Q->swap, and any hint of more complex mechanics within character kit being seen as hinderance. And it's not like Hoyo doesn't know it, that's why they sometimes try to make characters like Nilou, Chevreuse or Navia, but it doesn't really matter. The issue lies in the core of the combat system and unless they decide to rework it (and they won't), nothing will improve.
This read likes stupid oversimplification because it is one. You can only come up with something stupid like this if you only like, play Bennett team which is what most people do anyway thanks to EN TC inability to come up with original team. You could oversimplify Souls game into hit-evade roll-rinse and repeat and you wouldn't be technically wrong but you are still stupid anyway.
this ! people don't understand that even with elemental reactions genshin sucks, because they are not enough exploited and are the same since 4 years (except dendro) and actually dendro is the most exploited (can merge up to 3 elements) but everybody spam hyperbloom or whatever this is called
I truly wish elemental reaction system was discussed more, mostly about its flaw. Not only do you have to pay attention to the roles (Sub-DPS, Healer, etc.), but also you gotta look for the proper elements. And like you said, reactions might seem satisfying at the first glance, but when there's content like Imaginarium Theater, you eventually find out the deeper issues.
After running IT a few times, I noticed buying more characters is much more valuable than boons since I can play myself into a corner if I have too few characters and the boons are mostly useless. Having boons being more powerful to the point of replacing a single character (sub-DPS/buffer/healer/shielder) would be a good start and can make other problems of IT smaller. More cooldown reduction boons can make fragmented "2-character teams" viable.
I really dislike the fact that they are so adamant in refusing to give us a few more pull They could have easily keep Abyss for every 15 day, maybe add some weekly content aside from Boss and add new end game mode Theater for every 30 day but nope. We get the same amount of content and reward. 1-2 hour of meaningful content every month is just sad while the rest is annoying daily and busywork like collecting mint to ascend chara, like why tf do we need 200 of those, it is ridiculous. And this is putting aside the quality of the actual content, abyss is abyss, fun but very flat and straightforward DPS check while Theater is just a weird middleground where both the casual and hardcore player are unhappy. Should have followed PGR example by making easy and fun content for casual while keeping a really challenging content for more hardcore player with slightly more reward
I agree with this they had no reason to screw the abyss cycle it made no sense to me its just a way to screw F2p & low spenders. They use the excuse anxiety for the reason why lmao.
I would honestly be ok if they left abyss with the previous 15 day rotations gave it more floors and made it so the extra floors only gave Mora and arrifact exp. I know they really will do everything possible to avoid giving extra pulls.
This is what I've been saying. IMO Theatre was meant to be a rogue-lite that could be replayed, all they would have to do is make the rewards reflect that its repeatable (So no primos) and kept Abyss as it was. But its like they're allergic to the idea of being allowed to engage with combat in Genshin for more then half an hour every two weeks, so they instead made it alternate with abyss. Like who cares about the different buffs or w/e in the game mode ,when I'm only incentivized to play it through once?
Crazy thing is they already had the right idea with that randomized labyrinth event back in inazuma, but somehow that has never had a rerun and we get more windtrace and vibro crystal bullshit instead
The randomized labyrinth had the room structure layout, and the domain building one had a variety of other good features, from special currencies to unlock more characters or up their max level, plus unlockable buffs/debuffs. Between those two events, the mechanics they needed were there. They just flubbed it, big time.
This mode would be a lot more fun if they remove the charector restrictions, and keep the elemental restrictions, the charector restrictions make it worse, there's no room for strategising or rotations, something which makes the abyss a little more fun, I bet no one is going to even upload their theatre clears on youtube because it simply dosent matter, everything is random I can't believe this is the best a billion dollars company can come up with
Completely agree, I've been saying the " 2 stamina per character" is extremely bad game design in a game where combat is based around teambuilding since the event we had where they introduced this mechanic. I even downvoted in it the feedback letter, I can't believe the 1 combat event I Didn't like was the one taken to build a full endgame mode around
Problem is, without the character restrictions, the mode becomes mostly pointless. We'd just use a select few of our most powerful characters, the same ones we always use.
@@Axterix13that’s an issue with the design of the challenge. The alternative to this problem is forcing us to put together teams with zero synergy throughout the whole challenge, only being able to use a few actually coherent teams. Allowing players to choose how many they want to use makes them actually feel like they’re engaging with the energy system and that their use of characters actually matters. And that’s where rewards can be implemented, offering greater rewards if more energy is reserved. Of course, this comes with its own flaws, but that feels way better than being forced to sue a charcter you certainly don’t need at that point.
I think if we were given the option to manually select the characters of the respective elements that we're allowed to use in order to make a functional team it would help a lot. Not every single aspect of the game needs to be random.
Genshin Impact is open world game, I also think the end game shout not be just in a small circle, Even if the endgame mode is restricted area, it should feel like open world. Just like there some one time domains in liyue. It shouldn't be just a flat circle to fight in.
Hard agree. I didn't think I'd like the mode but kept an open mind and... it's worse than I thought. At this point every patch it feels like Hoyo is telling me I'm not the target audience. I'll hopefully like Natlan but it feels like they're indexing even more into the gimmicky cutesy vibe with a Pokemon-like atmosphere for what should be the "nation of war"...
Every year with this game I keep telling myself, “this will be the patch where they listen and make changes”!…. Then end up with disappointment. This year, I’m breaking that cycle. I hope everyone else who still plays continue to enjoy themselves tho!
yeah man i’m also hoping Natlan will ramp up the stakes seeing as it is the “nation of war” and is also the 2nd to last nation in the story! but i do also just want to point out that the teasers for both Sumeru and Fontaine were pretty light-hearted as well and just showing off some characters/enviorments but both regions ended up having pretty some serious archon quests! i’m sure we’ll get another trailer for Natlan in the next week or so that will be more like the “Final Feast” one we got for Fontaine that will show off more characters and give us some hints about what the story will be like 🙏
@@chaosgamer7348 Proud to hear you've taken incentive to just move forward. As someone who quit about 2 months back, it's like a hidden bundle of stress I never knew I had was just gone. Games have to respect many ends of its player base.
I hope they modify in future. They acknowledged how short sighted they were in an official post. My idea for a revamp is to keep the barriers of entry but rather than prohibiting anything outside of that, they could make penalties for straying off the course they designed for it. Example: ● for each off-element character in team, dmg taken by all party members are increased by 20%. ● for each empty party slot in your team, dmg taken by enemies are reduced by 20%. And then they should revamp and buff the Wondrous Boon cards. They could just reshape the buff cards that were present in Hyakunin Ikki, but introduce strong niche buffs that favor the on-element elemental reactions and characters. So for this season, there would be a buff card that makes overload spawn vortexes to pull enemies in, a buff that makes pyro-infused normal attacks generate shields, or a buff card that causes a whirlwind shredding anemo res and buffing anemo crit dmg like faruzan c6.
I agree with you, but I have one thing to add: for the "blessings", please make them more readable, because I swear no one can catch me reading them, their description is small as hell and you have to scroll for each of them to know what they do. This problem wasn't there in star rail.
@@overhaul8416 They should be on by default. They really need to work on their wordiness. Every new artifact set, so many character kits, so many quests... all seem like there are people being paid by the word in charge of them.
@@overhaul8416 I mean that is not the problem, even the long descriptions fit in the frame in star rail while having a bigger font. Plus even the short description makes you scroll to read them since only the values are squeezed out
There has never been more reason to add a legitimate artifact loadout system than this. The amount of artifact scrambling I had to do just to START this mode was frustrating as is. Let alone actually going through.
They won’t bring that back because at that time lots of people complained that it was too difficult and there are no rewards for the hard modes. There’s really no satisfying anyone.
yeah they should have improved it, made it more dynamic (maybe add more traps or wandering enemies) and let it be. oh and they shouldn't nerf the abyss cycle sometimes i have a feeling that genshin management tries to make their game worse
A big problem with the mode is that they really cant increase the difficulty substancially without allowing us to teambuild properly. I'm afraid it will get to a point that the mode will become a dps check, and on top of that we'll need to be able to clear with a no sinergy because we were unlucky. If it gets to that point might as well be called abyss randomizer. Before increasing difficulty, they gotta increase our capabilities to team build.
Among the videos I have seen on the theater, yours is definitively the most constructive one. Sure there are several things that cannot change. But it's definitively helpful. Thanks!
So true I was upset that i couldn't get those stars but then after completing it without many stars i got to know that those were not important at all(which I'm happy about)
I personally feel that most of the issues with imaginary theatre stem from the elements you can choose - you have three possible team archetypes, mono-pyro, mono-electro and overload. The first two only really benefit from Kazuha as the anemo slot, the latter wants Chevreuse. Imagine if the mode had restricted you to dendro, electro and hydro? You could play tazer, Hypperbloom, spread, quicken as well as mono-teams, and with the possible exception of Fishl in Tazer, no single character defines the playstyle.
Overall the main problem is this mode is full rng. I feel like i don't have much control over my teams. And on top of that they don't allow me to have only 1 or 2 characters for easier levels so that i can save up some character vigour for difficult bosses
SOMEONE FINALLY MENTIONED THE TEAM SYNERGY ISSUE! I keep saying it over and over again: being unable to change artifacts before combat to suit the wacky teams is so DUMB. They picked arguably one of the worst element combinations to do that for the first iteration too (Venti trivializes the small mobs, Pyro is mostly made up of on-field DPS, half of the electro characters want dendro but you only have access to it if you have Baizhu/Alhaitham) My Beidou is specifically built for teams with Fischl, but I kept getting only one or the other at the beginning or at the end. No in-between. Same applies to my Xiangling/Benny. And then the starting characters... Oh I hate the starting characters. It's obvious they want the player to use Wanderer/Faruzan first but... If this game mode promotes wacky teams up to the player's imagination, isn't forcing specific characters at first the antithesis of that? Even worse, personally I'm not the average player - I'd rather save my C4 Wanderer for the final fight as a friccu to the devs for spamming anemo res every abyss reset.
People seems a bit confused on the goal of this mode. The goal of the mode is not to "produce more difficult content for seasoned veterans". The goal of the mode is "how can we increase conversion rate of new players into paying customers". If you think if it from that angle, then the design totally makes sense.
To add to your suggestion, I think they should increase the number of elements per cycle to 4 or 5. This would (1) help players to reach the entry quota; (2) add more reactions to make proper teams; (3) give more replayability since you can choose a widely different roster each playthrough.
That would defeat the purpose, because we'd just aim for a select few teams/combos, essentially turning it into the Abyss. 3 is about the max number of elements if they want to force us into different team comps each time. Now, the entry restrictions, that can definitely go. Lack of vigor on leveled up characters and/or not enough power to finish it should be restriction enough.
@@Axterix13 I don't think it defeats the purpose because the vigor system and rng still effect your teambuilding options and decreases the chance of optimal teams (and even you manage to find it, you can only play that team twice at most). On the other hand, this change prevents having to use characters without their designated synergies, like playing overload Keqing or monopyro Hutao, whereas other characters don't suffer without the same problem, like Arlecchino. For example, next IT is hydro, cryo and anemo, so your Nilou can just be ignored, lol. And what's the purpose here anyway? Playing overload for a month over and over again? The very same characters every run?
@@lucasfmhomem It would defeat most of the purpose. 5/7th of the time, you will have hydro in the mix... and everything will be centered around hydro for a good chunk of players... all those hydro reactions, Neuv, and Furina. Added to that, with 18 characters required to do the hardest mode, we average 6 characters per element. With 4, we're down to 4.5. With 5, down to 3.6. Which means we'll be running more high powered characters, on top of more optimal elemental mixes. And a long term player such as myself, with more elements to choose from, we'll just not bother or barely use a lackluster element like cryo or geo (depending on what we think sucks and where we spent our primos). Anyway, overall, increased power for us, so now enemies need to be stronger. The less restricted we are, the more it becomes like the Abyss. Tougher enemies, while we push for the same team comps. And yes, you do still have the vigor system and the RNG element. However, if the mode is too close to the Abyss, then it won't be seen as its own mode. It'll be seen as an Abyss variant with added frustration. The mode has to distance itself from the Abyss where it can. Mind you, I think the entire mode is flawed at a fundamental level. What their likely design goals are (e̶n̶c̶o̶u̶r̶a̶g̶e̶ force variety of characters used, be casual friendly, and have low play time requirement with a single running netting you all the rewards) is just not something that seems likely to produce a good result for a permanent game mode. There are far better game modes they could have drawn inspiration from, like those found in Arknights, WuWa, and HSR.
Yes, the greatest flaw is that it's just not fun. I've replayed the mode several times for testing. One time I only chose characters and no boons, another time I only choose a minimum amount of characters and only boons. I felt absolutely no difference between the replays. The only thing that mattered a bit is who I got randomly added into my cast early on. The cards may as well not exist. Any punishing mechanic, like "thunder will strike down" is only felt if your units are severely lacking since it's on a timer, so it only punishes weak players. People who wave away the criticism like to boil it down to "it's endgame you have to build that many characters", but if you're someone who clears that barrier there is nothing engaging behind it. So who is this supposed to cater to? Players with well invested characters clear it easy, so there is no challenge, and worse gameplay at that. So it's not for meta players/difficulty raising. Newer Players struggle to fulfill the entry requirement so it's not a step before abyss either, in fact it rather hinders abyss progression by splitting your resources. So it's not for Newbies either. The only rejoicing I've seen came from "finally I can use all my build characters" players, basically players who build and dump. Grinding is not engaging gameplay. And an ownership barrier as the biggest challenge is just gacha incentive not a skill check.
5:29 100% That's pretty much what I thought as well after having spent a good amount of time with WuWa now. It's not particularly better than GI, but different and up to your preference. GI's not simpler at all. I find both are fun, but can still devolved into a DPS check with enough investment on the right characters, since I've now seen some whales cheese holograms with Jinhsi.
Great criticism of the Theatre. You articulated your stance well, while still affirming why some ppl like it. I understand where you are coming from. Also, agree with your take on Wuwa vs Genshin combat.
what makes it even more insulting is you can totally see how much love and effort they actually poured into designing the game mode and its overall aesthetics. too bad it's wasted on this shitty excuse of endgame content
It's also pretty weird. I'm sure the devs aren't fools, so they must have backups of the assets of precious content. As such, it's somewhat extrange to invest a lot of effort in new, fully custom assets, instead of actual gameplay mechanics. Also, there's a precedent of interesting mechanics in Genshin. If they could make n event where players builded their own dungeons, then using those same utilities they could have maked a more interesting arena layout without too much effort.
Dude, your comment on the combat vs WuWa is exactly why I respect your opinions. It's valid and not just blind bashing. I also agree with all your criticism of the new mode. They had an event in the past with buffs that changed character playstyles and I have no idea why they didn't do that here. Even if they didn't, roguelikes have so many good example for interesting mechanical changes... Like, they could make something that limits your skill to 3 charges, but removes cooldown or have all your basic attacks be infused with an element. Like you said, it's just lazy design. Well, not audio/visual design, but mechanical design.
You know what this Imaginarium Theater teach me. How good the character really is with out using the best team support/off field element applier. That teach me lessen of low investment character account.
I would love a run around the world type of combat event to start the next fight. Something that takes place in the world itself and gives me a reason to ho back through the map. Idk i largely agree with your take that they had 4 years to cook something up and Imaginarium Theater is just ok. Not bad imo, but not exciting
This mode is made purely for the sake of getting players to invest in more characters and, of course, to donate to get more characters. In 5.0 you will need even more characters on your account to pass this circus
@@Thedoorway123 I've played wuwa and it's definitely no PGR, just a 1-button game for the most part. Learn the enemy patterns in a couple minutes and as long as you're not a washed out old man like Tectone you can dodge and parry the occasional big flashy attacks no problem.
@@Thedoorway123 Dude wuwa has a 1 second i-frame for every dodge and counter, plus there are ultimates, parries, echoes and intros. It's basically impossible for the enemies to hit you if you pay attention. Genshin's gameplay is not focused as much on avoiding damage as wuwa's, but it can be a lot more chaotic (see lectors or consacrated beasts). And no, I'm not saying that either game is ultra-hard, just that there isn't much difference in the difficulty. Wuwa players mostly get rekt because their characters aren't leveled, just like it used to happen to early Genshin players.
@@AdamBlade17 And there's also the lack of characters currently, so you're much more likely not to have enough of elements the Tower wants to let you maximize the DPS, on top of not having enough time yet to level up what characters there are. Overall, I prefer Genshin combat to WuWa. The characters just feel (and look) more distinct. The whole "+30% Light (oops, I mean, spectral, because gotta be different) damage" really highlights how the lack of interactivity between characters beyond "buff to X when leaves field" limits WuWa combat. Plus button mashing and using parries/dodges when circles appear is not peak game play. And I think how often people mention the Illusive Realm, rather than the Tower, highlights this. Which most definitely doesn't mean Genshin doesn't have flaws of its own, because it does, and one of its is most definitely its dev team.
They went from Elysian Realm to Labyrinth Warriors to Simulated Universe to this. It dropped significantly on the 4th time and it most likely won't get better.
I wonder how much collaboration, inspiration, the HSR and GI teams took from each other creating Divergent Universe and Imaginarium Theatre. Divergent Universe is a flop for a lot of players. Considering how strong a lot of people consider HSR's updates, the surprise disappointment with DU is not what people expected. Both games releasing a negatively received permanent endgame mode around the same time is wild when you think about it.
That statement reminds me of many casual genshin players think that endgame means "near the end of the game" so they aren't releasing any endgame combat. I guess Avengers' Endgame changed the perception of endgame in video gaming terms.
Was I the only one that kinda liked it? I even finished it in one run, yeah it required backing up sometimes but I ended up finishing it and can’t wait to do it again!
I had a lot of fun but i understand it has a lot of issues and some stuff was annoying, and tbh even though i enjoyed clearing it a lot I don't think I'd go back to play after clearing once
No you're not alone, I like it as well but I know that people have a lot of issues with it. However I genuinely hope they dont abandon the elemental restrictions idea.
It depends on the kind of player you are. I am the kind of players who's in it for the rewards because all gacha games are essentially side games. If it's a one and done affair all the better for me Enjoyment wise , it was whatever.... but team synergies go for a toss in this mode...
Adding the ability to guarantee one of your selected characters, revive one of your choice or have non combat based stages like the adventure stages in sim universe in hsr. Like, either you can use up a character charge in a fight or you can do a minigame of sorts (they've got plenty they can reuse) and depending on how you do, you get better or worse rewards. Ranging from the games currency to special blessings or a character of your choice or something. I like the mode, i like what its trying to do, but i feel it needs a bit more to really set itself up as an endgame feeling mode.
I agree about the team building aspect. But, at the same time, we already have the Abyss for that. I think the Theater is about trying to find other kind of synergies. Obvious examples is Sigewinne+Kazuha to allow Gaming to Vape, or Dori and Fischl helping Sethos' Energy needs. But I was able to make a rotation using Hu Tao and Keqing, for example, since their CD actually align a little. It's nothing great, but still something. If they plan to do a double DPS meta in the future, maybe this is the kind of mode where we can experiment and discover new things. Anyways, I'm looking forward to see what they're going to improve in this mode. Personally I had fun playing (but only played twice until now. The first attempt was quite easy and the second attempt took me 5 hours to complete, it was hard xD). And I think your "rant" is fair, even if I don't agree 100%.
> I think the Theater is about trying to find other kind of synergies. Obvious examples is Sigewinne+Kazuha to allow Gaming to Vape, or Dori and Fischl helping Sethos' Energy needs Those are combat synergies you can use in Abyss too, nothing different from what TGS said. It's just that they are bad and you are obviously incentivised to use better ones. What this mode can do is changing some rules of the game allowing such characters to get new ones, but the game mode needs to "add" something, not restrict, in order to achieve that. This mode only restricts and only adds ridicolous boons that barely change anything
You are one of the few CC's i'm willing to listen to the game's criticism because i know you're not driven by views on youtube or stirring up drama. In my opinion the IT feels unfinished in it's current state, i wonder if it was intentional, to test the waters so to speak, but then here's the thing - hoyo has released some pretty good limited time combat events in the past 4 years, why didn't they just give us that instead of a dull, poorly designed "end game". I saw the dev discussion they posted recently and that gave me a LITTLE hope, but also a LOT of worry - i hope that when they said they were gonna listen to the "constructive criticism" of IT, they meant the criticism from end game players who want to see a better, more challenging version of it, rather than "constructive criticism" (cringing and whining more like) of people who think they should be able to partake in this challenge early - mid game, wanting to remove the 18 characters requirement and element restrictions, the only thing that this event has going for it as of now in my opinion, and what makes it even a bit interesting (it's not just Spiral Abyss 2.0)
They need to 100% rework the boons. They cannot be specific, its utter anathema to the mode's core concept to have half the boons only interact with a 3rd of the possible characters. Even if they just turn them into abyss cards it would be already a massive step up because those are mostly general use and having 6 of them is very powerful while the current boons cant even properly stack due to all being either element locked, Talent locked or both. So on most teams your 6 blessings will not affect all characters, at best 1 gets 3 boons while the rest get 1-2 while some might even get none. None of the random choices in theater matter in the slightest besides finding the right character to carry you through the last 2 stages. So this isnt really a roguelike so much as its a random combat event that shuffles your available characters but can be cleared with your starting roster of trial units.
Personally, I really enjoy the Theater gameplay far more than Abyss, because I love using different characters (even clunky ones) to tackle different challenges. It also seems to encourage horizontal investment rather than vertical, which has always been my problem with Abyss. However, I agree that many of the things you mention would make it better. Maybe not the "use a character 4 times" thing, but all of the rest of your improvements I think could be implemented. At the moment, I do feel like the challenges might be a bit too generic. If it reset more often, I wouldn't mind, but a whole month of the same old challenges is a bit sad to me. I would hope that in the future challenges are different across the board, and we can choose which play style to stick to in our performance. I also thought that it would be more interesting to add free "curses" that make enemies harder (maybe with different resistances) or even hurt your characters in some way (like lower skill damage, so you don't want to take Fischl) for one stage. In exchange, it could also give you a time buff to get help you be able to get stars/more currency/more characters. That way, the replay-ability may be better and it becomes a risk that players may be wanting to take. Each performance should feel different, rather than just playing the same strats every time.
Agreed with everything and for a mode that resets once a month, it's so disappointing how short and easy. Feels what little end game we had in abyss is now over
There is also no rogulite elements in Imaginarium Theater (like SU's upgrade tree from Star Rail), its pure rogulike. + There are only fight nods (no event nods), they could have easily recycled old event minigames (there were a lot of different events like: gliding, underwater race, cooking, recent bullethell event (record of reflective writing), mechanical puzzles, musical events, TCG for god sake)
@@luminous3558 Dude, Genshin's combat is mid, nothing special. But exploration is pretty good. I want the same formula for Imaginarium Theater (combat + events, which represent exploration). Btw, have you tried Mona's puzzles (2nd year summer event), they were pretty hard (I've heard many people complain about the difficulty).
@@UnclePunchalot some puzzles were difficult, that is correct but the issue with puzzles is that you can usually just look them up online. and if they are randomized it can also be helped sort of easy. Also puzzles dont really support endgame feelings its just... are you good at puzzles or not since they do not require heavy game knowledge or skills specific to genshin
I mean, if you want to make this argument credible at least mention the Cryo or the hydro Herald, not the Pyro Lector: that's literally a pyro gauge dummy
That’s the point. The game is either entirely pathetic or barely challenging because the devs decided to remove any possible weaknesses to CC and make them capable of one shotting you because they don’t have any other way for enemies to fight back. The best bosses in the game are the human sized ones because you’re actually fighting them and not clipping their toenails to kill them in the most unresponsive manner outside of their gimmicks.
The quickest way to improve IT in my opinion would be to drastically increase the difficulty of the enemies, while also increasing the strength of the random cards so that your strength may properly ramp up over time to match the enemies' strength if you build wisely. Adding more, harder performance stages can also work if the power scaling curve is right. The fact there seem to be room for more stages on the right side of the UI makes me optimistic that they will add them, and I hope it'll happen soon. Also, let characters be used more than twice, but with some drawback to doing so to incentivise experimentations. Maybe once they lose all their vigor points they start accumulating an "exhaustion" debuff that makes them weaker the more you force them back into the arena. That should make the choice between getting more cards to improve your current team and unlocking fresh characters to build a new team a more interesting choice.
I agree. The core concept of the mode is not off. I think the execution had too many foresight flaws. Gladly, they seem to be going the direction you suggested. They will expand the acts, reduce the randomness of the characters you get throughout the mode and provide stronger boon buffs. Hopefully like adding elemental vortexes that help the team with a reaction outside of the restricted entry elements. I also believe that with the expansion of the acts we will get vigor increased to 3 at least.
I propose character usage is time gated. So vertical player like me can still use certain character more than 2 stages assuming they can beat each stages fast enough Horizontal investment player can still use all of their character repertoire as much as they like. Its a win win and incentify both player segment to pull (new char or cons)
I am a vertical mindset player and we really stingy on how to spend our primo, I played genshin long enough to have lot of decent EOSF to be put on to my benched 4 stars. This mode will not make me want to spend additional money other than welkin to pull neuvillette or furina while I have C3 yelan and enough primo to C6 her. It only makes me bit annoyed, having to do some chore to level up my 4 stars. Not every one player love to running around picking plants every patch.
I think increase in boons and boons effect more impactful would be nice and make more stages and harder stages as well. but i disagree by giving characters more times they can be used IF they don’t add more theatre stages. i enjoy the fact theatre tries to test your horizontal investment and it should still attempt to test that.
I have all these characters only to use them in meh teams because the game gives them randomly + its very strict with elements, it feels more like a little harder event than a "endgame" game mode. I still preffer abyss because its harder and puts your account to the test, theater just checks if you pull alot. Its too easy for veterans and too hard for new players. PEAK DESIGN EVERYONE
The most baffling part about IT is that it’s so anti Casual player despite them doing everything else to appeal to those players with lowering Amber training mode and domains. You need so much resin, i.e. you need to login so frequently just to get your characters leveled up/ halfway decent artifacts just to play this mode. Most of these people don’t, they just login, spend some resin, and will occasionally do some odd things here and there. At least with abyss, they can spend money/ only invest in certain units and get some stars pretty easily. But here, you straight up can’t play the game mode if you don’t have enough characters. It’s so restrictive.
I had something completely different in mind when thinking about endgame... It was like Misty Dungeon and Labyrinth Warriors, but with a LOT more rooms. The rooms were mostly combat, but you needed to solve puzzles to travel between the rooms. The general idea was that you started somewhere along the outside of the huge network of rooms and passages between them (like a beehive or cube-hive). The combat would be timed. Too long prevents your progression at all. But depending on how slow you go, you can either move directly towards the center of the cube-lattice (the final boss) or you move to the side and have to fight more trials. I was going to make a post about it on Hoyolab...
The elemental restrictions would have made sense if the wondrous boons were powerful enough to even alter the elements and their available reactions, but that is not the case here. There is too much RNG involved, when it comes to gettibg mystery caches to even getting a character. They will need to revamp the buff cards and either remove the character count requirement or the elemental restriction requirement. Fortunately, Hoyo made a post about the ongoing concerns with the game and it does look like they admit that they were short-sighted. Id be fine with either just character count requirement or elemental restriction requirement but not both. Could have had us requirement 18 built characters from any element or have hs bring as many characters as well could with the elemental restriction requirement but also enable us to bring less than a full team. Rather than restrictions, it would be in highee favor if there were just penalties instead. Like you take 15% mode dmg for each off element character in team or for character count penalty, you deal 14% less dmg for each empty slot in your party. Overall, the game mode would have more replayability with just elemental count or character count penalties unstead.
i kinda love it. i found it so fun, it like actively made me think of who to use, who to pick up, when to get charatcers. was especially fun as a day 1 player who has such a massive roster where like 90% of them are like rotting away LMFAO hard agree with your points though. it def needs more TLC
The saddest part is, that this came at the price of halving actual abyss cycles... I am not a speedrunner and I mostly replay abyss just to test teams, but obviously every abyss reset is a great day firing all that dopamine receptors. If it was for me, I would even love a weekly abyss reset, but now it's four weeks man... And because although I can beat 36 stars comfortably for quite some time now, my account is still too young to have that many specific lvl 70 characters to even enter hard mode, so my primo net gain is the exact same as before, but I have much less gameplay. Hope, they can turn this around somehow.
i think some improvements they could make are (1) letting you pick your starting characters, or at least 2-4 of them. maybe we all have to start with arlecchino, thoma, chorinde, wanderer, faruzan, and kuki, but you can also choose to start off with benny, chevy, fischl, or anyone else. that way, your teams wont be as scuffed and you have more control over the experience. (2) rather than having the special invite characters be chosen by hoyo and be 5 stars not everyone has, let the player pick like 2 units of any element to bypass the restrictions. having the option to use xingqui or nahida or yelan could open up some team comps for some floors and make characters tied to vape or quicken a bit more usable while still incentivizing creative team comps with restrictions for at least half the floors. and (3) give us more choice when picking characters. maybe we dont start off with every character, but give us the choice of when to pick up a benny or a chevy or a fischl
I could understand them reducing the character randomness to make some more synergistic teams. but if they increase the vigor this will just become another abyss where people make 2 teams for the whole thing and never really experiment.
They need to add some crucial buffs that change the rules of the game and incentivise a different meta, if not doing something like SU or Illusive Realm in WuWa where you enhance characters kits even radically changing them and unlocking new playstyles, which might require again a new meta to be optimised. To do this though the need to add something, while currently they were only able to restrict restrict and restrict.
I think they should allow you to choose whichever character you want to use both in primary and alternative selection but they can still keep the vigor system.
i guess if you’re testing the new gamemode that heavily relies on having tons of characters built on a development account where you have every character unlocked and fully maxed out in every way, it’s easy to think it works just fine it becomes much more irritating when you only have decent artifacts and weapons for your main team and yeah you have some random units that happen to be high enough level to take on the theater but then you can’t get anything done because you didn’t expect to have to go back and build every single other character you own so they’re really not great in battle and can’t clear floors
Am i wrong for saying the basis seems potent it just needs thoughtful adjustments. Despite the issues i rather love the presentation and lore, which honestly should be a good thing since many of the changes people ask for are more or less just some lines of code, it shouldnt be hard to fix
I'm not a Hoyoverse fanboy, but I feel what often gets lost in the comparison between Genshin Impact and Hoyo's other games (HI3, HSR, ZZZ) is that the other games are pure combat games. That's all they have and it's what they excel in and makes them such good games. So of course those games have much more polished combat events and endgame, it's their bread and butter, their reason to exist, the only thing the devs need to focus on. But Genshin Impact is not a combat game that revolves around arena fights. It's an open world game first and foremost. That's what the devs focus on with each update, it's where the innovation and polish goes into. Would I love it if they could improve the combat events too? Sure, I'd love to have my cake and eat it and you could argue that they should have the funds to do so. But it's clear they're sticking to the core values of their games in choosing what to improve. It's the same thing in reverse. Look at the "exploration" in HI3 and HSR. It's very basic. It's as basic as the Imaginarium Theatre we got in Genshin. Just wanted to put forth this contrast as something to consider when criticizing the combat events ;)
This is such a non helpful thing to say in a combat mode critique. I mean, what should we do then? Should we just shut up and accept that genshin combat endgame can never be as fun as their other games? I mean, it's exploration game so just enjoy the exploration, who play combat anyways, eh? It's things like this that casuals who disregard other player's playstyle as "not fun" and thinks that their way of playing is the only correct one like to say. Combat is still a HUGE portion of genshin, arguably just as big as exploration. Disregarding that means disregarding half the game. Hell, for every character they releass, unveiling their kit and showing their synergy with currently released characters are always one of the biggest things they promote. I mean, they already made a fun combat mode before, the labyrinth warriors, just put that back in the game and make it harder. Seriously, stop talking as if combat is not an equally HUGE portion of genshin, just as much as exploration that you only do once on the new map release and never again. And stop talking as if the genshin dev is incapable of making good combat endgame, cause they ARE capable, they're just misguided.
@@theianeia oh no don’t get me wrong, feedback should definitely be given! As I said, I also think they’re capable of making better combat events. But to call it half the game is really stretching it. If it were, then the difficulty would reflect that, like in Elysian Realm and Simulated Universe (which can be very hard). They see combat as important in so far as it is part of their open world, world boss and domain gameplay, not as permanent battle focused modes. This has been proven time and time again in their event design. So please, give all the (constructive) feedback you want, I would also like them to put in more effort for combat events. I’m just saying that it will likely not reflect the priorities they’ve put into their design for Genshin specifically.
If their excuse is "open world game" why can't we have open world endgame and open world grinding instead of the stupid resin system? How many 5 star artifacts can we find in the open world? Like, two total?
I agree. They could do so many crazy things. Like for example have a purchasable baff that would make shields resonate with geo structures and deal damage this way. Or add some dot damage with pyro with one baff and with other make all dots prock at overload reactions.
Its funny how this mode is "team-building" focused, yet significantly inhibits how you can express your teambuilding knowledge with all these restrictions in place. A theorycrafter would almost have the same scuffed team as a casual player. It doesn't punish you for bad teambuilding knowledge because the difficulty was designed around bad teams. I expected a mode which tested how well you can adapt to the environment using your knowledge on synergies and characters
But that's like 50% of events ;) But yes, it's dumb that Genshin says "Characters are the content" and they constantly don't let us use the content for things.
Wow, imagine saying "They both have a different appeal depending on who you are" and the response you get is "no, I like one better, so it's better." Tectone catching L's like it's his job. Oh wait.
Totally agree. I don't think the foundation of what they tried to do is bad but it needs a lot of improvements to make it actually enjoyable and worth replaying. One of the interest things about SU is how every run is different bc of the differeng blessings you can get but not punishing bc the RNG just buffs your dmg. And I agree with the sugestions, either make it so we can use the characters more OR make it so we can regain vigor through something, even if its costs a lot of the flower thingies. Make the boons stronger so they feel more worth it to get than trying to get the a new random character. Like imagine you waste your flowers on a broke af boon but then the next stage you can regain vigor on a strong character so you just sit there thinking about your desicions, like I prefer that type of RNG and "punishment" bc yeah, I'm not getting that chara but I'm still doing a shit ton of dmg. As for the length, I think it was leaked that they might expand it to 10 acts on the next updates? Which is good but if they don't improve on the current issues then its not even worth it. I also hope they increase the difficulty a little bit, rn the enemies are quite squishy, which honestly idk if its a good or bad thing bc with some of the teams you end up creating its good that they are like that 💀 Personally, I don't mind the elemental restrictions and as you said, having to think of possible teams you can do with what you have is interesting and tests your teambuilding knowledge but the rest of the stuff does not make it that enjoyable. And as you said, I'm surprised with how many stuff they failed to get with this game mode considering how many feedback regarding other events they have gotten. Like I'm sure they have statistics on what events people liked more and what aspects of it they did, if they put attention to that they would have know the people yearn for a laberynth of warriors gamemode lmao.
Having lots of characters to be leveled up isn't a problem for me because I have a lot of them built along their own artifacts. Guess my decision ever since 1.0 of building one character with their own artifacts seems to be good for me. Unfortunately for me, I hate this game-mode due to its random selection of teammates. Like sometimes you just get 4 DPS in one team. Like what? Here we are supposed to play the game where elemental reaction is important. Okay, I can endure having doing this sheer brute playstyle if I have to but they have time limit, making it so stressful for me...
I feel like it’s gonna just take a lot of creativity to make this game mode exciting. More creative and stronger defensive boons like temporary C6, raining is turned on or something. allowing for more extreme difficulty for example.
I like how the mode values the characters flexibility rather than just being really good at one team, and the way it's more it requires more strategy than the abyss, although the difficulty is underwhelmingly low. I can see why ppl are disappointed with it and i do agree that it's quite bad at moment, but i really see potential in this mode and the fact hoyo is actually willing to improve makes me optimistic
This video does a good job explaining its issues and some of them that i had. As for the wondrous boons being basic i think thats cuz of the limited team styles. It does seem atleast theyre willing to keep updating the theater but an issue of it is as you said lack of replayability and the fact it only resets once a month means we gotta wait a long time for updates.
There are quite a bit of problems with IT as a roguelike. 1. Traditional roguelike gameplay feel has you get stronger qs your progress with many different strategies in buffs and their combinations, but you get weaker due to team RNG in IT and with lackluster buffs 2. The elemental restrictions, character count restrictions, and companion obtaining RNG poses too many barriers of entry for advancing and even steady progression. Solution: bring back buffs from Hyakunin Ikki, Realms of Guile and War, and Labyrinth warriors, as well as new buffs that make reactions do new things. Secondly, the fate of entry should revolve around penalties instead of restrictions. They could enable us to work outside of the bounds but will be punished for it. So the format would be: 1. For each off-element in team, dmg taken is increased by 20%. 2. For each empty party member slot in your team, reduce dmg taken by enemies by 25%. With that sort of formula of a gate of entry, it would increase replayabilitt by a bit, and even introduce difficulty. You dont play how the devs want you to play? Then they will just make it more challenging for you, which can also make it more fun if you have super built characters. Youre either gonna do less dmg or gonna take more dmg. Thats gonna make penalties more long-term sustainable than the elemntal restriction.
Because homoverse is unironically pissed off that not only are they obligated to work on genshin , but its much more popular than their precious honkslop ever was or ever could be.
Elysian real and SU are only good for a few first runs. You'll get tired of it eventually and will complain that it takes too much time to do (weekly in hi3).
This game mode is similar to the 'Triumphant Frenzy' event of v4.4. (The easier version of Imaginarium theatre). It gives you level 80 trial characters (both 4* & 5*) and when you complete the stage challenge, you can choose TWO characters instead of ONE for the next stage. But you get MORE buffs from Imaginarium theater than Triumphant Frenzy. I prefer 'Labyrinth Warriors' to be an endgame content rather than this.
imo the idea of Imaginarium Theater is cool in concept, but actual execution left a lot to be desired… the most glaring issue imo is how it’s literally inaccessible to players w/ small rosters or who only invest in a few characters, leaving many unbuilt if you ask me, the devs should take a page out of HSR Divergent Universe & level + gear your characters for the mode- if not just provide trial versions so that everyone can access the highest difficulty for rewards since many f2p already rely on endgame and events for the bulk of the primo income! i would also like to see some reworking on the boons so that they feel more impactful in combat since rn i don’t feel like there’s enough incentive to pick the boons over just obtaining an extra character 🤷♀️ overall i can definitely see the potential for this mode if the devs actually take feedback seriously and make the needed changes/improvements! i like that it isn’t just ~abyss 2.0~ & encourages you to consider other characters/teams but in it’s current state it just falls short… i’m feeling a little hopeful since the latest developer’s discussion post acknowledged that players have a lot of “feedback” for the mode but ig we’ll just have to wait and see what the devs decide to do
Totally agree, i was expecting something like simulated universe from hsr but is not like that at all, for me is more fun use the characters that i want to use than some random characters with random teams with 0 synergy and i dont think hoyo is gonna do something to fix it so, it is what it is.
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Asking for 13th kirara video when?
So uhhhh jinshi guide wen?
It feels like a random combat event.
This exactly. For something that should have been an endgame mode, they made it too damn easy to clear it with random ass undergeared characters.
I wouldn't care much about it if it didn't straight up replace one abyss rotation a month
Even worse…at least events combat let us choose our teams
It's because it takes inspiration from them. It is modeled after Triumphant Frenzy which also had mixed views.
It has a personality to it, but it also tried to do too much like an event rather than staple game mode genres like roguelikes, but it fails at what roguelikes do- make you more powerful over time with different builds in buffs.
@@legendnbg97 To be fair, the abyss is still there if you want to do it. We'll still get one new abyss with each patch. The only thing that changed about the spiral abyss is the reset, i.e. fewer rewards. But everyone who plays this game is a gacha addict and can't enjoy something that doesn't come with primogems...
@@SillyPutty125 Abyss isn't hard nor fun enough to do it without rewards attached to it, but theater is much worse, to the point that i wouldn't even do it if they kept abyss rewards the sams.
Genshin's combat system is centered around elemental reactions.
Limiting that with element restrictions and character randomness loses the main aspect of the game's combat.
Not to mention that more than half of the characters are tied with another character and/or elemental reactions.
In my perspective as vertical investment player. Most of my build are unique and based on strict team composition. For example using the exile on bennet to minimize ER req. Now 3 of my char tied to bennet will require additional ER which means changing their artifact in order to use them properly.
This in the end forces you to use "average" jack of all trades artifact and restrict your creativity to build a teams.
Then you need play abyss using team with relatively lower damage output, that or manually switch artifact without loadout feature.
@@LandryArri quite the opposite, actually. limiting the elements, allows players to be more creative with the teams instead of reusing your same boring ass meta team comps.
"jack of trade artifacts" is just another word for you screwing up artifact farming. it means youve fallen in artifact traps usable to only 1 or 2 units.
this enggame/event is horrible in many things, but it seems your problems on it are caused by your own unwise actions. "vertical investment"? come on. that's just sugarcoating a person who's gullible enough to waste resources on a gacha.
.
atleast you're right with the loadouts. it's friggin shitty that effing mihoyo released a half ass roguelike without a real functioning artifact loadout first.
@@mikkunmikkichi3762@mikkunmikkichi3762 There's no experimenting with limited teams when said characters are random.
Verticle investment is literally the smartest way to play the game as resin exists and you only need two teams to beat abyss.
Horizontal investment is only really available for people with either unlimited time or people who refresh resin (whales). For everyone else it's just dumb because you spread your resources too thin
Without limit most of player Will use Hyperbloom or Vaporize again thats not Creative.
@@ravenastray9468 fair point. But this can be easily solved if the boons themselves are actually useful.
Making reactions somewhat fun to play around. By giving them new functions
Example: Crystallize reactions explode when destroyed
Overload leaves a ticking bomb on enemies that explode when exposed to pyro
etc.
This could make the combat repetitive because players will try new Playstyles as they progress.
The random characters are still a pain though. It's a shitty concept imo. Why make a combat centered mode when the combat itself is flawed.
The fact that you have to use 4 characters and then stay on 1-2 characters because the other 2 is unsynergistic is beyond garbage. Wasting resources to upgrade and play characters only for them to become fodder because they cannot synergize well without their respective supports is just ehhh.
boons are so restrictive they might as well go full illusive realm and make character specific absurd buffs. "when bond of life changes, increase attack" wow groundbreaking stuff
just one of the many tells that this gamemode provides to players that they didn't even try.
@@plvto1 what u even on about lil newbie
exactly lmao😭 wow! a buff that works on 2 units!
It's probably a buff that's useful for one of the units they let you use for FREE! Plus bond of life weapons exist@@xyippee
Friendship exp farming team: The gamemode.
LMAO SO TRUE 😂😭
Insult to injury: The latest “endgame content” requires you to have specific characters at level 90 *and* have a friendship level of at least 8 with the characters in question.
This video is 10/10
- You criticized while being constructive
- Suggested improvements
- Addressed the haters as haters
The CC space needs more people like you and not braindead haters!
thanks for adding this context. should get pinned.
Absolutely true summed up everything I wanted to say. And even the thing I never thought of the, Why is the combat in a simple circle on a plain field. Why not on a mountain or on a bridge where melee chars have an advantage how about on the sea shore where you get free hydro app if enemies ai can be manipulated correctly. It's a genius idea now just feel even worse thinking abt this gamemode.
ignorant take
when most players leave "constructive criticism" either everybody disregards it because it doesn't align with popular belief (aka criticizing hsr community's beloved game) or it doesn't reach enough attention for it to matter. So pretty much you're just saying nobody should state their opinion because only the content creator's opinion matters anyway.
that doesn't make the average critique a "braindead hater" it just means they sum up their words in a st.pid way you don't like. and when ppl leave essays like this most people aren't bothered to read anyways lol
@@purplerainPRDid you come from Twitter by chance
@@purplerainPR ugh
HEAVY on the uninspired arenas. I never understood why abyss or some form of late game combat trial wouldnt have something like an "abyss backpack" where maybe you stumble across materials to craft certain food buffs or potions to aid u on your journey through the abyss. like it feels so obvious that they should use their open world aspect in the end game, but they literally just ignore it
I immediately imagined some sort of a challenge where you’ll have to collect as much berries/apples or some other stuff from a location that’s within the range of the arena to get something like 10 atk per berry and 100 hp per apple buff. Some characters would shine there, especially if they’ll add an opportunity to choose the party for such levels. Just wanted to share the idea 🌸
Omg yes, like have some special materials exclusive to the endgame area that'll make you able to craft food or potions or whatever that give good buffs, and u can only find a crafting table after 5 stages or so
im ok with element restrictions but randomized character rectrictions is a no-no for me. I still do it, but just for the primogems not for "fun"
Players: Labyrinth Warriors looks really good, we want it as endgame content!
Genshin devs: *Implements random combat event with annoying vigor system, which is probably the worst combat system among all their combat events as the actual second "endgame" while butchering Spiral Abyss in the process*
Labyrinth Warriors: Am I joke to you?
The worst part of the vigor implementation is that they removed the one good thing from it for theater; being able to slot less units and save some for later. Which at least gave you more freedom for planning.
I literally had an idea in my head of making some sort of randomly generated domain style thingy instead of IT and you're telling me it already existed??????
A rogue-like domain like labyrinth just feels like a no-brainer, I don’t understand why they don’t make it permanent content
@@bottledducky9610 very much so
I want Labyrinth Warriors too.
If there were 'paths' in terms of the buffs they give you it would be sooooo cool
Think about it, a path for each element
Make anemo give a crap ton of Cool Down Reduction
Make electro not spend energy and instead use your energy as fuel for more damage (like Sethos)
Make hydro turn your healing into damage, similar to clam
Make pyro increase your burst damage by a huge ammount but drain your HP everytime you use it
Make geo have infinite stagger res and get more damage based on how much hp and def you have
Make cryo give you a crap ton of attackspeed
Make dendro give your characters a crap ton of elemental mastery and elemental damage
I don't know man, these ideas are so free I'M JUST A RANDOM PERSON IN A CZcams COMMENT AND IT TOOK ME LESS THAN 3 MINUTES TO COME UP WITH ALL OF THESE help
Its sooo good
wait that's such a good idea
yes , this should be a roguelike mode but instead they just did an abyss 2.0 but easier
Saddest guys ive heard from tgs yet
"Guys..." : (
I was expecting this kind of video from Zajef, you know GI really messed up when there's no happy "Guys"
do u know we can see ur comment ? lol even u have the sad moment to write in the commen 💀 and i died reading it lmao 🤣
You know you fucked up when u manage to disappoint TGS.
This theatre experience is very similar to Floor 10 abyss rooms that we would play with random teams 😂
at least I can try to solo/duo at 9/10 or even 11, in Theater you just can't, you need to use 4 characters and even if you don't touch on it, it will consume uses... that's the biggest problem imo
I already said this is in a post but I'll say it again here. I think the best they could do is either make it so you can play underleveled units or not require a full team of 4 to clear a stage.
What's the point of making me waste a potentially useful unit if I can already clear that stage with 2 or 3 characters?
If they let you bring characters under level 70 you could just slap them on a lvl 1 support weapon, full support artifact set and "waste" them as the last slot in those teams AND people who don't have enough units leveled could at least attempt it instead of being completely locked out (ik there's lower difficulties but you won't get all the rewards that way)
I genuinely enjoyed playing it despite the issues but that stuff definitely annoyed me
My first thoughts after playing through this mode was basically "Spiral Abyss 2: Electric Boogaloo, but with arbitrarily limited character selection and now you have to pay for buffs".
And on the topic of Genshin combat as a whole, I haven't followed this entire twitter discussion but I feel like everyone there is missing the point or arguing different things entirely. Not even comparing combat in Genshin to WuWa or any other game, it has massive issue of putting almost all of its complexity into elemental reaction system. And it is fun at first, but if you really take a step back and look at it, it really hurts the game. Because reaction system is closed, no matter what characters you put there (and usually you recycle the same characters anyway), you still playing the same team and playstyle differences are superficial, in the end i.e. vaporize team plays the same, because it has to do that to be a vaporize team. In Genshin you "play a team, not a character", and that's not a good thing, honestly. It led to extremely shallow character kits, an absolute domination of Hydro (that will not go away), vast majority of "playstyles" being just E->Q->swap, and any hint of more complex mechanics within character kit being seen as hinderance.
And it's not like Hoyo doesn't know it, that's why they sometimes try to make characters like Nilou, Chevreuse or Navia, but it doesn't really matter. The issue lies in the core of the combat system and unless they decide to rework it (and they won't), nothing will improve.
Genshin vs WW combat drame. Meanwhile me playing ZZZ and having a blast xD
This read likes stupid oversimplification because it is one. You can only come up with something stupid like this if you only like, play Bennett team which is what most people do anyway thanks to EN TC inability to come up with original team. You could oversimplify Souls game into hit-evade roll-rinse and repeat and you wouldn't be technically wrong but you are still stupid anyway.
this ! people don't understand that even with elemental reactions genshin sucks, because they are not enough exploited and are the same since 4 years (except dendro) and actually dendro is the most exploited (can merge up to 3 elements) but everybody spam hyperbloom or whatever this is called
I truly wish elemental reaction system was discussed more, mostly about its flaw. Not only do you have to pay attention to the roles (Sub-DPS, Healer, etc.), but also you gotta look for the proper elements.
And like you said, reactions might seem satisfying at the first glance, but when there's content like Imaginarium Theater, you eventually find out the deeper issues.
After running IT a few times, I noticed buying more characters is much more valuable than boons since I can play myself into a corner if I have too few characters and the boons are mostly useless.
Having boons being more powerful to the point of replacing a single character (sub-DPS/buffer/healer/shielder) would be a good start and can make other problems of IT smaller. More cooldown reduction boons can make fragmented "2-character teams" viable.
I really hate how stingy they are for extending the reset time of the abyss for this.
I really dislike the fact that they are so adamant in refusing to give us a few more pull
They could have easily keep Abyss for every 15 day, maybe add some weekly content aside from Boss and add new end game mode Theater for every 30 day but nope. We get the same amount of content and reward. 1-2 hour of meaningful content every month is just sad while the rest is annoying daily and busywork like collecting mint to ascend chara, like why tf do we need 200 of those, it is ridiculous.
And this is putting aside the quality of the actual content, abyss is abyss, fun but very flat and straightforward DPS check while Theater is just a weird middleground where both the casual and hardcore player are unhappy. Should have followed PGR example by making easy and fun content for casual while keeping a really challenging content for more hardcore player with slightly more reward
I agree with this they had no reason to screw the abyss cycle it made no sense to me its just a way to screw F2p & low spenders. They use the excuse anxiety for the reason why lmao.
@@BlushiBunni It is exactly the reasen, they wanted to screw with F2P and low spenders.
I would honestly be ok if they left abyss with the previous 15 day rotations gave it more floors and made it so the extra floors only gave Mora and arrifact exp. I know they really will do everything possible to avoid giving extra pulls.
This is what I've been saying. IMO Theatre was meant to be a rogue-lite that could be replayed, all they would have to do is make the rewards reflect that its repeatable (So no primos) and kept Abyss as it was.
But its like they're allergic to the idea of being allowed to engage with combat in Genshin for more then half an hour every two weeks, so they instead made it alternate with abyss. Like who cares about the different buffs or w/e in the game mode ,when I'm only incentivized to play it through once?
@@nfrance999 if you can repeatedly play the game you wouldnt have time to play hoyo other gachas.... so they just give us the bare minimum
Crazy thing is they already had the right idea with that randomized labyrinth event back in inazuma, but somehow that has never had a rerun and we get more windtrace and vibro crystal bullshit instead
Perilous trail was great too
The randomized labyrinth had the room structure layout, and the domain building one had a variety of other good features, from special currencies to unlock more characters or up their max level, plus unlockable buffs/debuffs. Between those two events, the mechanics they needed were there. They just flubbed it, big time.
I know, best event they’ve ever run and could have easily been an endgame system
This mode would be a lot more fun if they remove the charector restrictions, and keep the elemental restrictions, the charector restrictions make it worse, there's no room for strategising or rotations, something which makes the abyss a little more fun, I bet no one is going to even upload their theatre clears on youtube because it simply dosent matter, everything is random
I can't believe this is the best a billion dollars company can come up with
Completely agree, I've been saying the " 2 stamina per character" is extremely bad game design in a game where combat is based around teambuilding since the event we had where they introduced this mechanic. I even downvoted in it the feedback letter, I can't believe the 1 combat event I Didn't like was the one taken to build a full endgame mode around
Problem is, without the character restrictions, the mode becomes mostly pointless. We'd just use a select few of our most powerful characters, the same ones we always use.
@@Axterix13that’s an issue with the design of the challenge. The alternative to this problem is forcing us to put together teams with zero synergy throughout the whole challenge, only being able to use a few actually coherent teams. Allowing players to choose how many they want to use makes them actually feel like they’re engaging with the energy system and that their use of characters actually matters. And that’s where rewards can be implemented, offering greater rewards if more energy is reserved. Of course, this comes with its own flaws, but that feels way better than being forced to sue a charcter you certainly don’t need at that point.
@@Axterix13 that's why i said it's bad game design, the idea in itself isn't bad, it's it's use in this specific game that clashes and makes no sense
I think if we were given the option to manually select the characters of the respective elements that we're allowed to use in order to make a functional team it would help a lot. Not every single aspect of the game needs to be random.
Genshin Impact is open world game, I also think the end game shout not be just in a small circle,
Even if the endgame mode is restricted area, it should feel like open world. Just like there some one time domains in liyue. It shouldn't be just a flat circle to fight in.
Circle Impact is not just about Bennet😂
@@r.d.6290 I know that.
Maybe you didn't understand my point.
Hard agree. I didn't think I'd like the mode but kept an open mind and... it's worse than I thought. At this point every patch it feels like Hoyo is telling me I'm not the target audience. I'll hopefully like Natlan but it feels like they're indexing even more into the gimmicky cutesy vibe with a Pokemon-like atmosphere for what should be the "nation of war"...
People should just drop the game at this point
Every year with this game I keep telling myself, “this will be the patch where they listen and make changes”!…. Then end up with disappointment. This year, I’m breaking that cycle. I hope everyone else who still plays continue to enjoy themselves tho!
yeah man i’m also hoping Natlan will ramp up the stakes seeing as it is the “nation of war” and is also the 2nd to last nation in the story! but i do also just want to point out that the teasers for both Sumeru and Fontaine were pretty light-hearted as well and just showing off some characters/enviorments but both regions ended up having pretty some serious archon quests! i’m sure we’ll get another trailer for Natlan in the next week or so that will be more like the “Final Feast” one we got for Fontaine that will show off more characters and give us some hints about what the story will be like 🙏
@@chaosgamer7348 Proud to hear you've taken incentive to just move forward. As someone who quit about 2 months back, it's like a hidden bundle of stress I never knew I had was just gone. Games have to respect many ends of its player base.
I hope they modify in future. They acknowledged how short sighted they were in an official post.
My idea for a revamp is to keep the barriers of entry but rather than prohibiting anything outside of that, they could make penalties for straying off the course they designed for it.
Example:
● for each off-element character in team, dmg taken by all party members are increased by 20%.
● for each empty party slot in your team, dmg taken by enemies are reduced by 20%.
And then they should revamp and buff the Wondrous Boon cards. They could just reshape the buff cards that were present in Hyakunin Ikki, but introduce strong niche buffs that favor the on-element elemental reactions and characters.
So for this season, there would be a buff card that makes overload spawn vortexes to pull enemies in, a buff that makes pyro-infused normal attacks generate shields, or a buff card that causes a whirlwind shredding anemo res and buffing anemo crit dmg like faruzan c6.
I agree with you, but I have one thing to add: for the "blessings", please make them more readable, because I swear no one can catch me reading them, their description is small as hell and you have to scroll for each of them to know what they do. This problem wasn't there in star rail.
You can turn on the brief descriptions
@@overhaul8416 They should be on by default. They really need to work on their wordiness. Every new artifact set, so many character kits, so many quests... all seem like there are people being paid by the word in charge of them.
@@Axterix13 after playing so many gacha games, they won’t. Those complicated descriptions makes them feel cool and fancy hahaha
@@overhaul8416 I mean that is not the problem, even the long descriptions fit in the frame in star rail while having a bigger font. Plus even the short description makes you scroll to read them since only the values are squeezed out
There has never been more reason to add a legitimate artifact loadout system than this. The amount of artifact scrambling I had to do just to START this mode was frustrating as is. Let alone actually going through.
I really miss that event in 2.6 or 2.4 that had xinyan and childe if they only brought that but harder it would have been perfect
it was 2.2
They won’t bring that back because at that time lots of people complained that it was too difficult and there are no rewards for the hard modes. There’s really no satisfying anyone.
literally this is all they had to do. lab warriors was incredible. I could play that mode 1-2x a month forever.
yeah they should have improved it, made it more dynamic (maybe add more traps or wandering enemies) and let it be. oh and they shouldn't nerf the abyss cycle
sometimes i have a feeling that genshin management tries to make their game worse
Yep. I freaking loved that labyrinth combat event.
A big problem with the mode is that they really cant increase the difficulty substancially without allowing us to teambuild properly. I'm afraid it will get to a point that the mode will become a dps check, and on top of that we'll need to be able to clear with a no sinergy because we were unlucky. If it gets to that point might as well be called abyss randomizer. Before increasing difficulty, they gotta increase our capabilities to team build.
Among the videos I have seen on the theater, yours is definitively the most constructive one. Sure there are several things that cannot change. But it's definitively helpful. Thanks!
I wish they hadn't confused us with the worthless stars. I thought I needed them and waisted a lot of time trying to get them.
They probably deleted the function "star = reward" the last moment, to avoid the wave of deserved hate.
So true
I was upset that i couldn't get those stars but then after completing it without many stars i got to know that those were not important at all(which I'm happy about)
they're easy to get
Only thing in genshin that isn't a disappointment is the music.
Having huge playerbase is curse for genshin. They cant make everyone happy.
Agreed
I personally feel that most of the issues with imaginary theatre stem from the elements you can choose - you have three possible team archetypes, mono-pyro, mono-electro and overload. The first two only really benefit from Kazuha as the anemo slot, the latter wants Chevreuse.
Imagine if the mode had restricted you to dendro, electro and hydro? You could play tazer, Hypperbloom, spread, quicken as well as mono-teams, and with the possible exception of Fishl in Tazer, no single character defines the playstyle.
Overall the main problem is this mode is full rng. I feel like i don't have much control over my teams. And on top of that they don't allow me to have only 1 or 2 characters for easier levels so that i can save up some character vigour for difficult bosses
SOMEONE FINALLY MENTIONED THE TEAM SYNERGY ISSUE! I keep saying it over and over again: being unable to change artifacts before combat to suit the wacky teams is so DUMB. They picked arguably one of the worst element combinations to do that for the first iteration too (Venti trivializes the small mobs, Pyro is mostly made up of on-field DPS, half of the electro characters want dendro but you only have access to it if you have Baizhu/Alhaitham)
My Beidou is specifically built for teams with Fischl, but I kept getting only one or the other at the beginning or at the end. No in-between. Same applies to my Xiangling/Benny.
And then the starting characters... Oh I hate the starting characters. It's obvious they want the player to use Wanderer/Faruzan first but... If this game mode promotes wacky teams up to the player's imagination, isn't forcing specific characters at first the antithesis of that? Even worse, personally I'm not the average player - I'd rather save my C4 Wanderer for the final fight as a friccu to the devs for spamming anemo res every abyss reset.
People seems a bit confused on the goal of this mode. The goal of the mode is not to "produce more difficult content for seasoned veterans". The goal of the mode is "how can we increase conversion rate of new players into paying customers". If you think if it from that angle, then the design totally makes sense.
Imaginarium teather is imaginary just like our primos
To add to your suggestion, I think they should increase the number of elements per cycle to 4 or 5. This would (1) help players to reach the entry quota; (2) add more reactions to make proper teams; (3) give more replayability since you can choose a widely different roster each playthrough.
That would defeat the purpose, because we'd just aim for a select few teams/combos, essentially turning it into the Abyss. 3 is about the max number of elements if they want to force us into different team comps each time.
Now, the entry restrictions, that can definitely go. Lack of vigor on leveled up characters and/or not enough power to finish it should be restriction enough.
@@Axterix13 I don't think it defeats the purpose because the vigor system and rng still effect your teambuilding options and decreases the chance of optimal teams (and even you manage to find it, you can only play that team twice at most). On the other hand, this change prevents having to use characters without their designated synergies, like playing overload Keqing or monopyro Hutao, whereas other characters don't suffer without the same problem, like Arlecchino. For example, next IT is hydro, cryo and anemo, so your Nilou can just be ignored, lol.
And what's the purpose here anyway? Playing overload for a month over and over again? The very same characters every run?
@@lucasfmhomem It would defeat most of the purpose. 5/7th of the time, you will have hydro in the mix... and everything will be centered around hydro for a good chunk of players... all those hydro reactions, Neuv, and Furina. Added to that, with 18 characters required to do the hardest mode, we average 6 characters per element. With 4, we're down to 4.5. With 5, down to 3.6. Which means we'll be running more high powered characters, on top of more optimal elemental mixes. And a long term player such as myself, with more elements to choose from, we'll just not bother or barely use a lackluster element like cryo or geo (depending on what we think sucks and where we spent our primos). Anyway, overall, increased power for us, so now enemies need to be stronger. The less restricted we are, the more it becomes like the Abyss. Tougher enemies, while we push for the same team comps.
And yes, you do still have the vigor system and the RNG element. However, if the mode is too close to the Abyss, then it won't be seen as its own mode. It'll be seen as an Abyss variant with added frustration. The mode has to distance itself from the Abyss where it can.
Mind you, I think the entire mode is flawed at a fundamental level. What their likely design goals are (e̶n̶c̶o̶u̶r̶a̶g̶e̶ force variety of characters used, be casual friendly, and have low play time requirement with a single running netting you all the rewards) is just not something that seems likely to produce a good result for a permanent game mode. There are far better game modes they could have drawn inspiration from, like those found in Arknights, WuWa, and HSR.
Yes, the greatest flaw is that it's just not fun.
I've replayed the mode several times for testing. One time I only chose characters and no boons, another time I only choose a minimum amount of characters and only boons. I felt absolutely no difference between the replays. The only thing that mattered a bit is who I got randomly added into my cast early on. The cards may as well not exist.
Any punishing mechanic, like "thunder will strike down" is only felt if your units are severely lacking since it's on a timer, so it only punishes weak players.
People who wave away the criticism like to boil it down to "it's endgame you have to build that many characters", but if you're someone who clears that barrier there is nothing engaging behind it.
So who is this supposed to cater to? Players with well invested characters clear it easy, so there is no challenge, and worse gameplay at that. So it's not for meta players/difficulty raising.
Newer Players struggle to fulfill the entry requirement so it's not a step before abyss either, in fact it rather hinders abyss progression by splitting your resources. So it's not for Newbies either.
The only rejoicing I've seen came from "finally I can use all my build characters" players, basically players who build and dump. Grinding is not engaging gameplay. And an ownership barrier as the biggest challenge is just gacha incentive not a skill check.
5:29
100% That's pretty much what I thought as well after having spent a good amount of time with WuWa now. It's not particularly better than GI, but different and up to your preference. GI's not simpler at all. I find both are fun, but can still devolved into a DPS check with enough investment on the right characters, since I've now seen some whales cheese holograms with Jinhsi.
Great criticism of the Theatre. You articulated your stance well, while still affirming why some ppl like it. I understand where you are coming from.
Also, agree with your take on Wuwa vs Genshin combat.
what makes it even more insulting is you can totally see how much love and effort they actually poured into designing the game mode and its overall aesthetics. too bad it's wasted on this shitty excuse of endgame content
It's also pretty weird. I'm sure the devs aren't fools, so they must have backups of the assets of precious content. As such, it's somewhat extrange to invest a lot of effort in new, fully custom assets, instead of actual gameplay mechanics.
Also, there's a precedent of interesting mechanics in Genshin. If they could make n event where players builded their own dungeons, then using those same utilities they could have maked a more interesting arena layout without too much effort.
Dude, your comment on the combat vs WuWa is exactly why I respect your opinions. It's valid and not just blind bashing.
I also agree with all your criticism of the new mode. They had an event in the past with buffs that changed character playstyles and I have no idea why they didn't do that here. Even if they didn't, roguelikes have so many good example for interesting mechanical changes... Like, they could make something that limits your skill to 3 charges, but removes cooldown or have all your basic attacks be infused with an element.
Like you said, it's just lazy design. Well, not audio/visual design, but mechanical design.
They could've unironically copypasted Labyrinth Warriors, turn it into a monthly gamemode and I would've ate that crap up instead of this slop mode
You know what this Imaginarium Theater teach me. How good the character really is with out using the best team support/off field element applier. That teach me lessen of low investment character account.
It was so painful to complete. Some of the fights are just bad for a specific dps, but that's all you have.
I don't think Genshin's movement system is cut out for complex stages, maybe one complex stage would be good as a gimmick you would save Wanderer for.
I would love a run around the world type of combat event to start the next fight. Something that takes place in the world itself and gives me a reason to ho back through the map. Idk i largely agree with your take that they had 4 years to cook something up and Imaginarium Theater is just ok. Not bad imo, but not exciting
They need to add an equivalent of Helltide from Diablo 4 at least
This mode is made purely for the sake of getting players to invest in more characters and, of course, to donate to get more characters. In 5.0 you will need even more characters on your account to pass this circus
Please never take Tectone seriously again. Most Genshin content still requires dodging, healing and/or shielding, especially if playing on mobile.
Bro thinks genshit is hard lmfao bro wouldn't last a second in wuwa
@@Thedoorway123 I've played wuwa and it's definitely no PGR, just a 1-button game for the most part. Learn the enemy patterns in a couple minutes and as long as you're not a washed out old man like Tectone you can dodge and parry the occasional big flashy attacks no problem.
@@AdamBlade17 no parry or dodge timer in genshit the enemy just sits there and stares
@@Thedoorway123 Dude wuwa has a 1 second i-frame for every dodge and counter, plus there are ultimates, parries, echoes and intros. It's basically impossible for the enemies to hit you if you pay attention.
Genshin's gameplay is not focused as much on avoiding damage as wuwa's, but it can be a lot more chaotic (see lectors or consacrated beasts).
And no, I'm not saying that either game is ultra-hard, just that there isn't much difference in the difficulty. Wuwa players mostly get rekt because their characters aren't leveled, just like it used to happen to early Genshin players.
@@AdamBlade17 And there's also the lack of characters currently, so you're much more likely not to have enough of elements the Tower wants to let you maximize the DPS, on top of not having enough time yet to level up what characters there are.
Overall, I prefer Genshin combat to WuWa. The characters just feel (and look) more distinct. The whole "+30% Light (oops, I mean, spectral, because gotta be different) damage" really highlights how the lack of interactivity between characters beyond "buff to X when leaves field" limits WuWa combat. Plus button mashing and using parries/dodges when circles appear is not peak game play. And I think how often people mention the Illusive Realm, rather than the Tower, highlights this. Which most definitely doesn't mean Genshin doesn't have flaws of its own, because it does, and one of its is most definitely its dev team.
Imaginarium Theatre: Where imagination goes to die.
They went from Elysian Realm to Labyrinth Warriors to Simulated Universe to this. It dropped significantly on the 4th time and it most likely won't get better.
I wonder how much collaboration, inspiration, the HSR and GI teams took from each other creating Divergent Universe and Imaginarium Theatre.
Divergent Universe is a flop for a lot of players. Considering how strong a lot of people consider HSR's updates, the surprise disappointment with DU is not what people expected.
Both games releasing a negatively received permanent endgame mode around the same time is wild when you think about it.
I think mihoyo misunderstood "end game" as something that is supposed to be released at the end of the game
i think it's the problem is with whoever is managing genshin. HI3 and HSR have decent amount of endgame content
That statement reminds me of many casual genshin players think that endgame means "near the end of the game" so they aren't releasing any endgame combat. I guess Avengers' Endgame changed the perception of endgame in video gaming terms.
Was I the only one that kinda liked it? I even finished it in one run, yeah it required backing up sometimes but I ended up finishing it and can’t wait to do it again!
I enjoyed it too!
I had a lot of fun but i understand it has a lot of issues and some stuff was annoying, and tbh even though i enjoyed clearing it a lot I don't think I'd go back to play after clearing once
No you're not alone, I like it as well but I know that people have a lot of issues with it. However I genuinely hope they dont abandon the elemental restrictions idea.
It depends on the kind of player you are.
I am the kind of players who's in it for the rewards because all gacha games are essentially side games. If it's a one and done affair all the better for me
Enjoyment wise , it was whatever.... but team synergies go for a toss in this mode...
Adding the ability to guarantee one of your selected characters, revive one of your choice or have non combat based stages like the adventure stages in sim universe in hsr. Like, either you can use up a character charge in a fight or you can do a minigame of sorts (they've got plenty they can reuse) and depending on how you do, you get better or worse rewards. Ranging from the games currency to special blessings or a character of your choice or something.
I like the mode, i like what its trying to do, but i feel it needs a bit more to really set itself up as an endgame feeling mode.
I agree about the team building aspect. But, at the same time, we already have the Abyss for that.
I think the Theater is about trying to find other kind of synergies. Obvious examples is Sigewinne+Kazuha to allow Gaming to Vape, or Dori and Fischl helping Sethos' Energy needs.
But I was able to make a rotation using Hu Tao and Keqing, for example, since their CD actually align a little. It's nothing great, but still something.
If they plan to do a double DPS meta in the future, maybe this is the kind of mode where we can experiment and discover new things.
Anyways, I'm looking forward to see what they're going to improve in this mode. Personally I had fun playing (but only played twice until now. The first attempt was quite easy and the second attempt took me 5 hours to complete, it was hard xD). And I think your "rant" is fair, even if I don't agree 100%.
> I think the Theater is about trying to find other kind of synergies. Obvious examples is Sigewinne+Kazuha to allow Gaming to Vape, or Dori and Fischl helping Sethos' Energy needs
Those are combat synergies you can use in Abyss too, nothing different from what TGS said. It's just that they are bad and you are obviously incentivised to use better ones. What this mode can do is changing some rules of the game allowing such characters to get new ones, but the game mode needs to "add" something, not restrict, in order to achieve that. This mode only restricts and only adds ridicolous boons that barely change anything
You are one of the few CC's i'm willing to listen to the game's criticism because i know you're not driven by views on youtube or stirring up drama.
In my opinion the IT feels unfinished in it's current state, i wonder if it was intentional, to test the waters so to speak, but then here's the thing - hoyo has released some pretty good limited time combat events in the past 4 years, why didn't they just give us that instead of a dull, poorly designed "end game".
I saw the dev discussion they posted recently and that gave me a LITTLE hope, but also a LOT of worry - i hope that when they said they were gonna listen to the "constructive criticism" of IT, they meant the criticism from end game players who want to see a better, more challenging version of it, rather than "constructive criticism" (cringing and whining more like) of people who think they should be able to partake in this challenge early - mid game, wanting to remove the 18 characters requirement and element restrictions, the only thing that this event has going for it as of now in my opinion, and what makes it even a bit interesting (it's not just Spiral Abyss 2.0)
They need to 100% rework the boons. They cannot be specific, its utter anathema to the mode's core concept to have half the boons only interact with a 3rd of the possible characters.
Even if they just turn them into abyss cards it would be already a massive step up because those are mostly general use and having 6 of them is very powerful while the current boons cant even properly stack due to all being either element locked, Talent locked or both.
So on most teams your 6 blessings will not affect all characters, at best 1 gets 3 boons while the rest get 1-2 while some might even get none.
None of the random choices in theater matter in the slightest besides finding the right character to carry you through the last 2 stages.
So this isnt really a roguelike so much as its a random combat event that shuffles your available characters but can be cleared with your starting roster of trial units.
Personally, I really enjoy the Theater gameplay far more than Abyss, because I love using different characters (even clunky ones) to tackle different challenges. It also seems to encourage horizontal investment rather than vertical, which has always been my problem with Abyss. However, I agree that many of the things you mention would make it better. Maybe not the "use a character 4 times" thing, but all of the rest of your improvements I think could be implemented.
At the moment, I do feel like the challenges might be a bit too generic. If it reset more often, I wouldn't mind, but a whole month of the same old challenges is a bit sad to me. I would hope that in the future challenges are different across the board, and we can choose which play style to stick to in our performance.
I also thought that it would be more interesting to add free "curses" that make enemies harder (maybe with different resistances) or even hurt your characters in some way (like lower skill damage, so you don't want to take Fischl) for one stage. In exchange, it could also give you a time buff to get help you be able to get stars/more currency/more characters. That way, the replay-ability may be better and it becomes a risk that players may be wanting to take. Each performance should feel different, rather than just playing the same strats every time.
It feels like tectone literally just repeated what you said in negative language lol 😭
Agreed with everything and for a mode that resets once a month, it's so disappointing how short and easy. Feels what little end game we had in abyss is now over
There is also no rogulite elements in Imaginarium Theater (like SU's upgrade tree from Star Rail), its pure rogulike. + There are only fight nods (no event nods), they could have easily recycled old event minigames (there were a lot of different events like: gliding, underwater race, cooking, recent bullethell event (record of reflective writing), mechanical puzzles, musical events, TCG for god sake)
Because what genshin needs is less combat and more baby tier puzzle events....
@@luminous3558 Dude, Genshin's combat is mid, nothing special. But exploration is pretty good. I want the same formula for Imaginarium Theater (combat + events, which represent exploration). Btw, have you tried Mona's puzzles (2nd year summer event), they were pretty hard (I've heard many people complain about the difficulty).
@@UnclePunchalot some puzzles were difficult, that is correct but the issue with puzzles is that you can usually just look them up online. and if they are randomized it can also be helped sort of easy. Also puzzles dont really support endgame feelings its just... are you good at puzzles or not since they do not require heavy game knowledge or skills specific to genshin
Tectone doesn't play games, he only talks. For sure he never fought Pyro Lectors, Consecrated Beasts and such to call them target dummies
That's what they are lmao this game isn't challenging
I mean, if you want to make this argument credible at least mention the Cryo or the hydro Herald, not the Pyro Lector: that's literally a pyro gauge dummy
That’s the point. The game is either entirely pathetic or barely challenging because the devs decided to remove any possible weaknesses to CC and make them capable of one shotting you because they don’t have any other way for enemies to fight back.
The best bosses in the game are the human sized ones because you’re actually fighting them and not clipping their toenails to kill them in the most unresponsive manner outside of their gimmicks.
@@karmaascendant3936 no treasure hoarders are equally as bad
The quickest way to improve IT in my opinion would be to drastically increase the difficulty of the enemies, while also increasing the strength of the random cards so that your strength may properly ramp up over time to match the enemies' strength if you build wisely. Adding more, harder performance stages can also work if the power scaling curve is right. The fact there seem to be room for more stages on the right side of the UI makes me optimistic that they will add them, and I hope it'll happen soon.
Also, let characters be used more than twice, but with some drawback to doing so to incentivise experimentations. Maybe once they lose all their vigor points they start accumulating an "exhaustion" debuff that makes them weaker the more you force them back into the arena. That should make the choice between getting more cards to improve your current team and unlocking fresh characters to build a new team a more interesting choice.
I agree. The core concept of the mode is not off. I think the execution had too many foresight flaws. Gladly, they seem to be going the direction you suggested. They will expand the acts, reduce the randomness of the characters you get throughout the mode and provide stronger boon buffs. Hopefully like adding elemental vortexes that help the team with a reaction outside of the restricted entry elements. I also believe that with the expansion of the acts we will get vigor increased to 3 at least.
I propose character usage is time gated. So vertical player like me can still use certain character more than 2 stages assuming they can beat each stages fast enough
Horizontal investment player can still use all of their character repertoire as much as they like.
Its a win win and incentify both player segment to pull (new char or cons)
I am a vertical mindset player and we really stingy on how to spend our primo, I played genshin long enough to have lot of decent EOSF to be put on to my benched 4 stars. This mode will not make me want to spend additional money other than welkin to pull neuvillette or furina while I have C3 yelan and enough primo to C6 her.
It only makes me bit annoyed, having to do some chore to level up my 4 stars. Not every one player love to running around picking plants every patch.
Typical Tectone glazing Wuwa's ass again. He talks about others shilling for Genshin but he's shilling for Wuwa so much himself, what a hypocrite
I think increase in boons and boons effect more impactful would be nice and make more stages and harder stages as well. but i disagree by giving characters more times they can be used IF they don’t add more theatre stages. i enjoy the fact theatre tries to test your horizontal investment and it should still attempt to test that.
I have all these characters only to use them in meh teams because the game gives them randomly + its very strict with elements, it feels more like a little harder event than a "endgame" game mode. I still preffer abyss because its harder and puts your account to the test, theater just checks if you pull alot. Its too easy for veterans and too hard for new players. PEAK DESIGN EVERYONE
I quite like the new mode. Its random but at least I can use my billion characters for once
The most baffling part about IT is that it’s so anti Casual player despite them doing everything else to appeal to those players with lowering Amber training mode and domains. You need so much resin, i.e. you need to login so frequently just to get your characters leveled up/ halfway decent artifacts just to play this mode. Most of these people don’t, they just login, spend some resin, and will occasionally do some odd things here and there. At least with abyss, they can spend money/ only invest in certain units and get some stars pretty easily. But here, you straight up can’t play the game mode if you don’t have enough characters. It’s so restrictive.
feels like an extended character trial
I had something completely different in mind when thinking about endgame...
It was like Misty Dungeon and Labyrinth Warriors, but with a LOT more rooms. The rooms were mostly combat, but you needed to solve puzzles to travel between the rooms.
The general idea was that you started somewhere along the outside of the huge network of rooms and passages between them (like a beehive or cube-hive). The combat would be timed. Too long prevents your progression at all. But depending on how slow you go, you can either move directly towards the center of the cube-lattice (the final boss) or you move to the side and have to fight more trials.
I was going to make a post about it on Hoyolab...
i feel like i was the only person had fun while playing this mode but i fully agree that it is not enough
The elemental restrictions would have made sense if the wondrous boons were powerful enough to even alter the elements and their available reactions, but that is not the case here.
There is too much RNG involved, when it comes to gettibg mystery caches to even getting a character.
They will need to revamp the buff cards and either remove the character count requirement or the elemental restriction requirement.
Fortunately, Hoyo made a post about the ongoing concerns with the game and it does look like they admit that they were short-sighted. Id be fine with either just character count requirement or elemental restriction requirement but not both.
Could have had us requirement 18 built characters from any element or have hs bring as many characters as well could with the elemental restriction requirement but also enable us to bring less than a full team.
Rather than restrictions, it would be in highee favor if there were just penalties instead. Like you take 15% mode dmg for each off element character in team or for character count penalty, you deal 14% less dmg for each empty slot in your party.
Overall, the game mode would have more replayability with just elemental count or character count penalties unstead.
i kinda love it. i found it so fun, it like actively made me think of who to use, who to pick up, when to get charatcers. was especially fun as a day 1 player who has such a massive roster where like 90% of them are like rotting away LMFAO hard agree with your points though. it def needs more TLC
The saddest part is, that this came at the price of halving actual abyss cycles... I am not a speedrunner and I mostly replay abyss just to test teams, but obviously every abyss reset is a great day firing all that dopamine receptors. If it was for me, I would even love a weekly abyss reset, but now it's four weeks man...
And because although I can beat 36 stars comfortably for quite some time now, my account is still too young to have that many specific lvl 70 characters to even enter hard mode, so my primo net gain is the exact same as before, but I have much less gameplay. Hope, they can turn this around somehow.
i think some improvements they could make are (1) letting you pick your starting characters, or at least 2-4 of them. maybe we all have to start with arlecchino, thoma, chorinde, wanderer, faruzan, and kuki, but you can also choose to start off with benny, chevy, fischl, or anyone else. that way, your teams wont be as scuffed and you have more control over the experience. (2) rather than having the special invite characters be chosen by hoyo and be 5 stars not everyone has, let the player pick like 2 units of any element to bypass the restrictions. having the option to use xingqui or nahida or yelan could open up some team comps for some floors and make characters tied to vape or quicken a bit more usable while still incentivizing creative team comps with restrictions for at least half the floors. and (3) give us more choice when picking characters. maybe we dont start off with every character, but give us the choice of when to pick up a benny or a chevy or a fischl
I could understand them reducing the character randomness to make some more synergistic teams. but if they increase the vigor this will just become another abyss where people make 2 teams for the whole thing and never really experiment.
They need to add some crucial buffs that change the rules of the game and incentivise a different meta, if not doing something like SU or Illusive Realm in WuWa where you enhance characters kits even radically changing them and unlocking new playstyles, which might require again a new meta to be optimised. To do this though the need to add something, while currently they were only able to restrict restrict and restrict.
I think they should allow you to choose whichever character you want to use both in primary and alternative selection but they can still keep the vigor system.
i guess if you’re testing the new gamemode that heavily relies on having tons of characters built on a development account where you have every character unlocked and fully maxed out in every way, it’s easy to think it works just fine
it becomes much more irritating when you only have decent artifacts and weapons for your main team and yeah you have some random units that happen to be high enough level to take on the theater but then you can’t get anything done because you didn’t expect to have to go back and build every single other character you own so they’re really not great in battle and can’t clear floors
Am i wrong for saying the basis seems potent it just needs thoughtful adjustments. Despite the issues i rather love the presentation and lore, which honestly should be a good thing since many of the changes people ask for are more or less just some lines of code, it shouldnt be hard to fix
"abyss blessings feel more impactful than boons" yep, that's definitely real
I'm not a Hoyoverse fanboy, but I feel what often gets lost in the comparison between Genshin Impact and Hoyo's other games (HI3, HSR, ZZZ) is that the other games are pure combat games. That's all they have and it's what they excel in and makes them such good games. So of course those games have much more polished combat events and endgame, it's their bread and butter, their reason to exist, the only thing the devs need to focus on.
But Genshin Impact is not a combat game that revolves around arena fights. It's an open world game first and foremost. That's what the devs focus on with each update, it's where the innovation and polish goes into. Would I love it if they could improve the combat events too? Sure, I'd love to have my cake and eat it and you could argue that they should have the funds to do so. But it's clear they're sticking to the core values of their games in choosing what to improve.
It's the same thing in reverse. Look at the "exploration" in HI3 and HSR. It's very basic. It's as basic as the Imaginarium Theatre we got in Genshin. Just wanted to put forth this contrast as something to consider when criticizing the combat events ;)
Hadn’t thought about this before
This is such a non helpful thing to say in a combat mode critique. I mean, what should we do then? Should we just shut up and accept that genshin combat endgame can never be as fun as their other games? I mean, it's exploration game so just enjoy the exploration, who play combat anyways, eh?
It's things like this that casuals who disregard other player's playstyle as "not fun" and thinks that their way of playing is the only correct one like to say. Combat is still a HUGE portion of genshin, arguably just as big as exploration. Disregarding that means disregarding half the game. Hell, for every character they releass, unveiling their kit and showing their synergy with currently released characters are always one of the biggest things they promote. I mean, they already made a fun combat mode before, the labyrinth warriors, just put that back in the game and make it harder. Seriously, stop talking as if combat is not an equally HUGE portion of genshin, just as much as exploration that you only do once on the new map release and never again. And stop talking as if the genshin dev is incapable of making good combat endgame, cause they ARE capable, they're just misguided.
@@theianeia oh no don’t get me wrong, feedback should definitely be given! As I said, I also think they’re capable of making better combat events. But to call it half the game is really stretching it. If it were, then the difficulty would reflect that, like in Elysian Realm and Simulated Universe (which can be very hard). They see combat as important in so far as it is part of their open world, world boss and domain gameplay, not as permanent battle focused modes. This has been proven time and time again in their event design. So please, give all the (constructive) feedback you want, I would also like them to put in more effort for combat events. I’m just saying that it will likely not reflect the priorities they’ve put into their design for Genshin specifically.
If their excuse is "open world game" why can't we have open world endgame and open world grinding instead of the stupid resin system?
How many 5 star artifacts can we find in the open world? Like, two total?
And that's why we have basically a dead open-world once we clear the map in x.0-x.2 versions😂
The Hypostatic Symphony event and others similar like it were awesome, wish we got that as an endgame.
I agree. They could do so many crazy things. Like for example have a purchasable baff that would make shields resonate with geo structures and deal damage this way. Or add some dot damage with pyro with one baff and with other make all dots prock at overload reactions.
Its funny how this mode is "team-building" focused, yet significantly inhibits how you can express your teambuilding knowledge with all these restrictions in place. A theorycrafter would almost have the same scuffed team as a casual player. It doesn't punish you for bad teambuilding knowledge because the difficulty was designed around bad teams. I expected a mode which tested how well you can adapt to the environment using your knowledge on synergies and characters
I refuse to play a mode that prevents me from using the characters I PAID MONEY FOR
But that's like 50% of events ;)
But yes, it's dumb that Genshin says "Characters are the content" and they constantly don't let us use the content for things.
Wow, imagine saying "They both have a different appeal depending on who you are" and the response you get is "no, I like one better, so it's better." Tectone catching L's like it's his job. Oh wait.
Totally agree. I don't think the foundation of what they tried to do is bad but it needs a lot of improvements to make it actually enjoyable and worth replaying. One of the interest things about SU is how every run is different bc of the differeng blessings you can get but not punishing bc the RNG just buffs your dmg.
And I agree with the sugestions, either make it so we can use the characters more OR make it so we can regain vigor through something, even if its costs a lot of the flower thingies. Make the boons stronger so they feel more worth it to get than trying to get the a new random character. Like imagine you waste your flowers on a broke af boon but then the next stage you can regain vigor on a strong character so you just sit there thinking about your desicions, like I prefer that type of RNG and "punishment" bc yeah, I'm not getting that chara but I'm still doing a shit ton of dmg.
As for the length, I think it was leaked that they might expand it to 10 acts on the next updates? Which is good but if they don't improve on the current issues then its not even worth it. I also hope they increase the difficulty a little bit, rn the enemies are quite squishy, which honestly idk if its a good or bad thing bc with some of the teams you end up creating its good that they are like that 💀
Personally, I don't mind the elemental restrictions and as you said, having to think of possible teams you can do with what you have is interesting and tests your teambuilding knowledge but the rest of the stuff does not make it that enjoyable.
And as you said, I'm surprised with how many stuff they failed to get with this game mode considering how many feedback regarding other events they have gotten. Like I'm sure they have statistics on what events people liked more and what aspects of it they did, if they put attention to that they would have know the people yearn for a laberynth of warriors gamemode lmao.
The best video about the theater content I ever watched.
I can't believe someone's opinion can line up to mine so much, including about the abyss lmao
Subscribed.
Having lots of characters to be leveled up isn't a problem for me because I have a lot of them built along their own artifacts. Guess my decision ever since 1.0 of building one character with their own artifacts seems to be good for me.
Unfortunately for me, I hate this game-mode due to its random selection of teammates. Like sometimes you just get 4 DPS in one team. Like what? Here we are supposed to play the game where elemental reaction is important. Okay, I can endure having doing this sheer brute playstyle if I have to but they have time limit, making it so stressful for me...
I feel like it’s gonna just take a lot of creativity to make this game mode exciting. More creative and stronger defensive boons like temporary C6, raining is turned on or something. allowing for more extreme difficulty for example.
I like how the mode values the characters flexibility rather than just being really good at one team, and the way it's more it requires more strategy than the abyss, although the difficulty is underwhelmingly low.
I can see why ppl are disappointed with it and i do agree that it's quite bad at moment, but i really see potential in this mode and the fact hoyo is actually willing to improve makes me optimistic
Whatever egg man say, my brain just automatically blocks.
This video does a good job explaining its issues and some of them that i had.
As for the wondrous boons being basic i think thats cuz of the limited team styles.
It does seem atleast theyre willing to keep updating the theater but an issue of it is as you said lack of replayability and the fact it only resets once a month means we gotta wait a long time for updates.
There are quite a bit of problems with IT as a roguelike.
1. Traditional roguelike gameplay feel has you get stronger qs your progress with many different strategies in buffs and their combinations, but you get weaker due to team RNG in IT and with lackluster buffs
2. The elemental restrictions, character count restrictions, and companion obtaining RNG poses too many barriers of entry for advancing and even steady progression.
Solution: bring back buffs from Hyakunin Ikki, Realms of Guile and War, and Labyrinth warriors, as well as new buffs that make reactions do new things.
Secondly, the fate of entry should revolve around penalties instead of restrictions. They could enable us to work outside of the bounds but will be punished for it.
So the format would be:
1. For each off-element in team, dmg taken is increased by 20%.
2. For each empty party member slot in your team, reduce dmg taken by enemies by 25%.
With that sort of formula of a gate of entry, it would increase replayabilitt by a bit, and even introduce difficulty. You dont play how the devs want you to play? Then they will just make it more challenging for you, which can also make it more fun if you have super built characters.
Youre either gonna do less dmg or gonna take more dmg. Thats gonna make penalties more long-term sustainable than the elemntal restriction.
@@flamezforthegamez1056 This is such a good idea.I can see Hoyo looking at no 1. ,but unfortunately I don't they'll do anything about no.2
The endgame you are looking for is raid which I wanted since day1 it is baffling why they don't do it, it is fit for open word games like destiny
Hi3 have Elysian Realm (Elysia 🥰), Star Rail have Simulated Universe, why can't we have something similar that are actually good
Because genshin devs are built different
Because if Hoyo game doesn't have "Honkai" in the name they don't care about it.
Because homoverse is unironically pissed off that not only are they obligated to work on genshin , but its much more popular than their precious honkslop ever was or ever could be.
Elysian real and SU are only good for a few first runs. You'll get tired of it eventually and will complain that it takes too much time to do (weekly in hi3).
SU fucking sucks ass the moment novelty wears off.
This game mode is similar to the 'Triumphant Frenzy' event of v4.4. (The easier version of Imaginarium theatre). It gives you level 80 trial characters (both 4* & 5*) and when you complete the stage challenge, you can choose TWO characters instead of ONE for the next stage. But you get MORE buffs from Imaginarium theater than Triumphant Frenzy.
I prefer 'Labyrinth Warriors' to be an endgame content rather than this.
imo the idea of Imaginarium Theater is cool in concept, but actual execution left a lot to be desired… the most glaring issue imo is how it’s literally inaccessible to players w/ small rosters or who only invest in a few characters, leaving many unbuilt
if you ask me, the devs should take a page out of HSR Divergent Universe & level + gear your characters for the mode- if not just provide trial versions so that everyone can access the highest difficulty for rewards since many f2p already rely on endgame and events for the bulk of the primo income! i would also like to see some reworking on the boons so that they feel more impactful in combat since rn i don’t feel like there’s enough incentive to pick the boons over just obtaining an extra character 🤷♀️
overall i can definitely see the potential for this mode if the devs actually take feedback seriously and make the needed changes/improvements! i like that it isn’t just ~abyss 2.0~ & encourages you to consider other characters/teams but in it’s current state it just falls short… i’m feeling a little hopeful since the latest developer’s discussion post acknowledged that players have a lot of “feedback” for the mode but ig we’ll just have to wait and see what the devs decide to do
Totally agree, i was expecting something like simulated universe from hsr but is not like that at all, for me is more fun use the characters that i want to use than some random characters with random teams with 0 synergy and i dont think hoyo is gonna do something to fix it so, it is what it is.